Dammit...I had moderator points at the beginning of the week. I wish I still had some. Your post should be moded up to the top and be required reading.
The privacy extended to sellers on eBay is no different than the privacy extended to sellers in the brick-and-mortar world. In most US localities, you have to have a permit even to have a yardsale in your own front yard, and that permit is public record, as are ALL business permits, viewable by anyone who so desires, without need of a court order.
If this were about the privacy of a BUYER that might be different. But it isn't. A person peddling his wares to the general public should have no expectation of privacy.
The title of this article should have read "eBay Provides No Privacy For Sellers...Slashdot, As Usual, Attempts To Make An Issue Where There Is None."
It would be more than nice. With the current setup (no help from Slashdot) we show our appreciation for the pointed-to websites by crashing their servers, getting their sites shut down, or massively enlarging the owner's bill for bandwidth. In other words, currently we do to the people we like the same as we do to people we don't like. Its a shame that the majority of Slashdoters, as well as Slashdot themselves, can't seem to figure this out.
Someone else has already taken you to task over this assinine statement, but I'm going to do it too, and from a different angle.
I am not a teenager. My days of buying a vehicle based on how it looks, how much of a pussy magnet it is, and how obscenely fast it goes are *LONG* gone. I buy a particular vehicle for the same reason I might buy a particular drillbit...to do a job. And if it can't do that job, I won't buy it. Period.
Currently I have a 4-wheel drive GMC Jimmy. Not the biggest SUV on the block, but not a Geo either. Last week I needed to buy some bags of cement, 25 of them, at 40 pounds each. That's half a ton of cement...as in a thousand pounds. My Jimmy did it in one shot. How many trips would it take one of them cute little hybrids?
I live on a small farm. Believe it or not, I am very well aware of, and try not to abuse, the environment here...especially since the previous owners over-farmed the living hell out of this land (I've got spots that are so nutrient depleated even weeds can't grow). I make very few decisions about my land/lifestyle that don't take in to account its impact on the environment. When someone creates a greener vehicle that can haul half a ton of cement, a couple of bales of hay, etc etc, as easily as it can take two kids to soccer practice, I'll take a look at it. Until then, I'll have my SUV, and the SUV-Nazis can kiss my ass.
Too bad Ford isn't actually using any of this hard work.
Too bad the average American is willing to talk the talk, but will not pay the price that many of those modifications require. Ford, like the other vehicle manufacturers, only sells what the people want. And at present, even those nice wonderful and green hybrid vehicles only make up a very small percentage of vehicle sales.
Its times like this I wish I had enough money to blow some on little things like an AIX license real quick from IBM, just so I could tell SCO to go piss up a rope.
I figured this would happen, so I made it a point to download the source and the win-32 install as soon as I saw the original/. article, especially since this is something I could really use and want to play with.
I am contemplating putting up a mirror, since I do have a server available. I would like to see this software further developed in to something great. But at the same time I don't want to see my server hammered in to/. oblivion (which would not be hard to do since its only a Cobalt RaQ) so that eleventy-billion people who would otherwise never be interested can say "pffft!!" to AOL and pretend they are "stickin' it to The Man!".
This law, and laws like it, are a waste of government time and money. State laws will only make the spammers operate from other states. Federal laws will only make the spammers operate from other countries.
Sure, we read news stories about "Joe Schmo sues a spammer and wins", and we see supposed multi-million dollar awards to the likes of AOL and Earthlink. And it does not stem the tide of spam one damned bit. When one spammer stops, 5 more scumba^H^H^H^H^H^Hspammers rise up to take their place.
In the good old days, you could trust people on the internet to not lie about who they were or what they were doing. The good old days are long gone. What's needed now is not more useless legislation, but a fundemental change in the infrastructure itself. Mail servers need to be set up and software needs to be adjusted so that mail servers simply will not allow the header to be forged. And they need to be set up to refuse any and all mail coming from servers using older non-secured software.
Until that time, anti-spam legislation is a waste and a lie.
I don't know which I consider to be more ignorant...a person who submits his website to Slashdot without making sure his server can take the hits, or the Slashdot person who approves an item for posting without bothering to make sure the server can take the hits.
Next time instead of spending a few dollars on some circuit, spend a few more dollars on more reliable web service.
You bring up very good points, and I hope your post gets modded up.
First off, if they don't already, any company that works on third-party computers should have a very explicit policy for when its okay to look at what files on a client's machine. And that policy should be strictly enforced, whether a crime is found being committed or not.
Second, one thing I've learned in 20-some years of working on computers is users tend to be stupid. This prof had kiddie porn on his system. It wasn't encrypted. It was on his hard drive, not removeable media. And he let a third party look over his machine without doing anything about it? He deserved to get caught just for being stupid, the fact that he was hording kiddie porn just adds points:-)
Finally, we must keep in mind that in this particular instance, we are only hearing one side of the story. What if the company is being honest, and did in fact fire the two employees for reasons both legitimate and completely unrelated to this case? Slashdot is, I'm sorry to say, well known for jumping in to the deep end of the pool head first when, in fact, it turns out the unpopular point of view was the correct one (for example, a while back when the dude was busted for stealing satellite TV documents from his uncle's law firm and then posted them on the internet...the Powers That Be at Slashdot tried to make this in to a free speech issue, when it was in fact nothing of the sort and the dude deserves to get a prison term). I have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach that this is going to be the case again here.
I've already noted several posts here that say words to the effect of "report it to the boss" and "its not your problem to call the law".
Unfortunately, that is not always such a simple decision.
In some states, and I'm sure many more will follow, it is the law that, should you find evidence of child abuse or child porn, YOU are guilty of a crime if YOU do not report it immediately to authorities.
You may be an agent of the company, but you are also subject to the laws of the state you are working in.
Grace said he would be liable if one of his papers carried defamatory information from a third party, and said Web site operators should be held to the same standard.
Will Grace's papers allow me to have something printed for free, and without checking it out first? I think not.
The ruling was the correct one, and the only thing "sophomoric and silly" about it is Grace filing it in the first place. If he can prove the remarks made by the other party were libel then sure he should be allowed to collect from that third party. But I think the only reason he went after eBay too was to a) make a name for himself (and I can think of several choice names that would fit), and b) because eBay has deep pockets whereas the dude he feels libeled him probably does not.
And to anyone who thinks that eBay should have been held responsible, I would ask this...should Slashdot now be held responsible for what I am saying in this post?
I have a fealing that, now that this story is posted on Slashdot, that those who advocated the assault on anything Mozilla connected are going to find a new level of "shock and awe" when they also learn the meaning of the term "Slashdot effect".
FirebirdSQL needs to go, in the words of Clint Eastwood, piss up a rope.
If he is running the Linux version, there is one slight problem with paying Opera for it...version 7.10 is beta only and is not available for sale. Thus paying to remove the ads for that version is not an option.
I *LOVE* Opera 7. It is my browser of choice. I paid for a copy of the Windows version to get rid of the ads...not because I find the ads annoying or anything, but because I'd rather see that chunk of window real estate get used for something useful, like part of a tool bar. I am now also running the Linux version of Opera 7, and as soon as its available for sale, I will also gladly pay for a copy for Linux.
Then the producers are as guilty as the Sci-Fi Channel for foisting that piece of crap ending on us. They could have just as easily chopped off everything after "the ring" and left it hanging there (if you've seen it, you know what I mean...I don't want to introduce spoilers). That would have given both closure AND a place to pick up.
The producers of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" did it right...they wrapped the series for those who could not follow the show to the new network, and then after the move, picked it back up without skipping a beat.
I live in a fairly rural area of Indiana. When I first moved here 5 years ago, the cable system here did not offer the Sci-Fi Channel. We were doing good to even have cable here. The *WHOLE REASON* I subscribed to Dish Network was so I could have Sci-Fi. Tonight, I am seriously considering ending that subscription when my current billed month runs out. And if I do, I'll make damned sure the Sci-Fi Channel, Dish Network, and the producers of Farscape all know the reason why.
Nobody said eBay is spamming people about this device. You are apparently overlooking the word "and" between "Ebay" and "through email spam". Sellers are peddling the devices on eBay, and they are also selling them via spam.
Wahhh!! That's so sad!! I need some tissue to dry away the tears!!
Not.
Anyone who is stupid enough to buy one of these devices is getting what they deserve. If you want the premium channels, then pay for them. If you think the cable company charges too much, then complain to them and rent DVDs. But that doesn't give you any right to steal the programming.
This is the best damned answer for why it should be GNU/Linux I have ever seen. Wish I had some mod points to give you this week.
Re:ok, so he removes it from his lexicon so what?
on
Verbing Weirds Google
·
· Score: 1
Of course the original submitter forgot to mention the "or note our trademark" part. After all, this *IS* Slashdot...what do you expect, impartiality and complete honesty?
Some others have already replied to this, but I'm going to reply too anyway, just because it gives me the warm fuzzies to do so.
And sorry, you're wrong on both counts, but thanks for playing along anyway.
I won't swear to this for all 50 states, but I know for a fact that in both Indiana (where I currently live) and Kentucky (where I used to live), if you're talking to me on my phone line, I can legally record that call any stinking time I want to, whether you know I'm recording or not. And which one of us originated the call is irrelevant. And if you come over to my house and use my phone to call your Aunt Bertha, I can still legally record it without either of you knowing it.
And a company can listen in on, and record, any conversation they want, so long as the policy that they are doing so is spelled out to the employees beforehand. They can also monitor what you do on the office computer, etc etc. And there are a number of court decisions affirming the rights of a company to do so.
I'll bet money that buried somewhere deep in that University of Wyoming Student Handbook there is a clause that says "its our network, we'll snoop it any damned time we want, and we'll block anything we want too", or words to that effect. If you don't like them snooping on you, then the solution is simple...don't use their network.
There is one small point you are overlooking here. They (the University of Wyoming) own the network they are snooping...you don't. That is what makes the difference between it being okay for them to do it and not okay for you to do it.
I'm curious to see if, now that the darling processor company of Slashdot, having announced DRM on future chips, will be met with the same hatred that similar announcements from both Microsoft and Intel have been met.
And no, moderators, this is not a troll. I have watched here, literally for years, as unpopular announcements from Intel and Micrsoft have been pronouced to be the work of the Anti-Christ, and then similar announcements from, using them as examples, Apple or AMD have been either quickly swept under the carpet, or passed off with offhand "well, its a competitor to Intel and Microsoft, so this time its good" attitude. Those of you who moderate this post down will only serve to further prove my point.
Part of me would like to go in to sermon mode here and proclaim how this is yet another reason we should begin work on educating the public and organizing a major boycott of all RIAA and MPAA tainted media in a specific time period...like for instance, Thanksgiving holiday weekend 2003 (boycott runs Wednesday morning to Monday morning).
Unfortunately, the general public does not care.
Add to that the fact that to be an effective protest, all downloading of RIAA/MPAA material would have to cease also...quite frankly I don't think most of you could go 5 days without downloading something illegal on Kazaa...
But you really expect someone who is so tight they are buying a $199 PC to be willing to shell out $40+ a month for broadband access? Keep in mind all the previous/. stories about how Joe Average PC User is not willing to pay that much for net access.
On the other hand, do you expect a total novice who is only interested in surfing the net who bought this cheap bargain basement PC to purchase and install his own modem? And know enough to get a Linux-supported modem at that?
Slashdot Mirror
Dammit...I had moderator points at the beginning of the week. I wish I still had some. Your post should be moded up to the top and be required reading.
The privacy extended to sellers on eBay is no different than the privacy extended to sellers in the brick-and-mortar world. In most US localities, you have to have a permit even to have a yardsale in your own front yard, and that permit is public record, as are ALL business permits, viewable by anyone who so desires, without need of a court order.
If this were about the privacy of a BUYER that might be different. But it isn't. A person peddling his wares to the general public should have no expectation of privacy.
The title of this article should have read "eBay Provides No Privacy For Sellers...Slashdot, As Usual, Attempts To Make An Issue Where There Is None."
It would be more than nice. With the current setup (no help from Slashdot) we show our appreciation for the pointed-to websites by crashing their servers, getting their sites shut down, or massively enlarging the owner's bill for bandwidth. In other words, currently we do to the people we like the same as we do to people we don't like. Its a shame that the majority of Slashdoters, as well as Slashdot themselves, can't seem to figure this out.
Someone else has already taken you to task over this assinine statement, but I'm going to do it too, and from a different angle.
I am not a teenager. My days of buying a vehicle based on how it looks, how much of a pussy magnet it is, and how obscenely fast it goes are *LONG* gone. I buy a particular vehicle for the same reason I might buy a particular drillbit...to do a job. And if it can't do that job, I won't buy it. Period.
Currently I have a 4-wheel drive GMC Jimmy. Not the biggest SUV on the block, but not a Geo either. Last week I needed to buy some bags of cement, 25 of them, at 40 pounds each. That's half a ton of cement...as in a thousand pounds. My Jimmy did it in one shot. How many trips would it take one of them cute little hybrids?
I live on a small farm. Believe it or not, I am very well aware of, and try not to abuse, the environment here...especially since the previous owners over-farmed the living hell out of this land (I've got spots that are so nutrient depleated even weeds can't grow). I make very few decisions about my land/lifestyle that don't take in to account its impact on the environment. When someone creates a greener vehicle that can haul half a ton of cement, a couple of bales of hay, etc etc, as easily as it can take two kids to soccer practice, I'll take a look at it. Until then, I'll have my SUV, and the SUV-Nazis can kiss my ass.
Too bad Ford isn't actually using any of this hard work.
Too bad the average American is willing to talk the talk, but will not pay the price that many of those modifications require. Ford, like the other vehicle manufacturers, only sells what the people want. And at present, even those nice wonderful and green hybrid vehicles only make up a very small percentage of vehicle sales.
Its times like this I wish I had enough money to blow some on little things like an AIX license real quick from IBM, just so I could tell SCO to go piss up a rope.
I figured this would happen, so I made it a point to download the source and the win-32 install as soon as I saw the original /. article, especially since this is something I could really use and want to play with.
/. oblivion (which would not be hard to do since its only a Cobalt RaQ) so that eleventy-billion people who would otherwise never be interested can say "pffft!!" to AOL and pretend they are "stickin' it to The Man!".
I am contemplating putting up a mirror, since I do have a server available. I would like to see this software further developed in to something great. But at the same time I don't want to see my server hammered in to
This law, and laws like it, are a waste of government time and money. State laws will only make the spammers operate from other states. Federal laws will only make the spammers operate from other countries.
Sure, we read news stories about "Joe Schmo sues a spammer and wins", and we see supposed multi-million dollar awards to the likes of AOL and Earthlink. And it does not stem the tide of spam one damned bit. When one spammer stops, 5 more scumba^H^H^H^H^H^Hspammers rise up to take their place.
In the good old days, you could trust people on the internet to not lie about who they were or what they were doing. The good old days are long gone. What's needed now is not more useless legislation, but a fundemental change in the infrastructure itself. Mail servers need to be set up and software needs to be adjusted so that mail servers simply will not allow the header to be forged. And they need to be set up to refuse any and all mail coming from servers using older non-secured software.
Until that time, anti-spam legislation is a waste and a lie.
I've got karma to spare, so I'm gonna say it.
I don't know which I consider to be more ignorant...a person who submits his website to Slashdot without making sure his server can take the hits, or the Slashdot person who approves an item for posting without bothering to make sure the server can take the hits.
Next time instead of spending a few dollars on some circuit, spend a few more dollars on more reliable web service.
You bring up very good points, and I hope your post gets modded up.
:-)
First off, if they don't already, any company that works on third-party computers should have a very explicit policy for when its okay to look at what files on a client's machine. And that policy should be strictly enforced, whether a crime is found being committed or not.
Second, one thing I've learned in 20-some years of working on computers is users tend to be stupid. This prof had kiddie porn on his system. It wasn't encrypted. It was on his hard drive, not removeable media. And he let a third party look over his machine without doing anything about it? He deserved to get caught just for being stupid, the fact that he was hording kiddie porn just adds points
Finally, we must keep in mind that in this particular instance, we are only hearing one side of the story. What if the company is being honest, and did in fact fire the two employees for reasons both legitimate and completely unrelated to this case? Slashdot is, I'm sorry to say, well known for jumping in to the deep end of the pool head first when, in fact, it turns out the unpopular point of view was the correct one (for example, a while back when the dude was busted for stealing satellite TV documents from his uncle's law firm and then posted them on the internet...the Powers That Be at Slashdot tried to make this in to a free speech issue, when it was in fact nothing of the sort and the dude deserves to get a prison term). I have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach that this is going to be the case again here.
I've already noted several posts here that say words to the effect of "report it to the boss" and "its not your problem to call the law".
Unfortunately, that is not always such a simple decision.
In some states, and I'm sure many more will follow, it is the law that, should you find evidence of child abuse or child porn, YOU are guilty of a crime if YOU do not report it immediately to authorities.
You may be an agent of the company, but you are also subject to the laws of the state you are working in.
Grace said he would be liable if one of his papers carried defamatory information from a third party, and said Web site operators should be held to the same standard.
Will Grace's papers allow me to have something printed for free, and without checking it out first? I think not.
The ruling was the correct one, and the only thing "sophomoric and silly" about it is Grace filing it in the first place. If he can prove the remarks made by the other party were libel then sure he should be allowed to collect from that third party. But I think the only reason he went after eBay too was to a) make a name for himself (and I can think of several choice names that would fit), and b) because eBay has deep pockets whereas the dude he feels libeled him probably does not.
And to anyone who thinks that eBay should have been held responsible, I would ask this...should Slashdot now be held responsible for what I am saying in this post?
I have a fealing that, now that this story is posted on Slashdot, that those who advocated the assault on anything Mozilla connected are going to find a new level of "shock and awe" when they also learn the meaning of the term "Slashdot effect".
FirebirdSQL needs to go, in the words of Clint Eastwood, piss up a rope.
If he is running the Linux version, there is one slight problem with paying Opera for it...version 7.10 is beta only and is not available for sale. Thus paying to remove the ads for that version is not an option.
I *LOVE* Opera 7. It is my browser of choice. I paid for a copy of the Windows version to get rid of the ads...not because I find the ads annoying or anything, but because I'd rather see that chunk of window real estate get used for something useful, like part of a tool bar. I am now also running the Linux version of Opera 7, and as soon as its available for sale, I will also gladly pay for a copy for Linux.
Then the producers are as guilty as the Sci-Fi Channel for foisting that piece of crap ending on us. They could have just as easily chopped off everything after "the ring" and left it hanging there (if you've seen it, you know what I mean...I don't want to introduce spoilers). That would have given both closure AND a place to pick up.
The producers of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" did it right...they wrapped the series for those who could not follow the show to the new network, and then after the move, picked it back up without skipping a beat.
I live in a fairly rural area of Indiana. When I first moved here 5 years ago, the cable system here did not offer the Sci-Fi Channel. We were doing good to even have cable here. The *WHOLE REASON* I subscribed to Dish Network was so I could have Sci-Fi. Tonight, I am seriously considering ending that subscription when my current billed month runs out. And if I do, I'll make damned sure the Sci-Fi Channel, Dish Network, and the producers of Farscape all know the reason why.
Nobody said eBay is spamming people about this device. You are apparently overlooking the word "and" between "Ebay" and "through email spam". Sellers are peddling the devices on eBay, and they are also selling them via spam.
Wahhh!! That's so sad!! I need some tissue to dry away the tears!!
Not.
Anyone who is stupid enough to buy one of these devices is getting what they deserve. If you want the premium channels, then pay for them. If you think the cable company charges too much, then complain to them and rent DVDs. But that doesn't give you any right to steal the programming.
This is the best damned answer for why it should be GNU/Linux I have ever seen. Wish I had some mod points to give you this week.
Of course the original submitter forgot to mention the "or note our trademark" part. After all, this *IS* Slashdot...what do you expect, impartiality and complete honesty?
Some others have already replied to this, but I'm going to reply too anyway, just because it gives me the warm fuzzies to do so.
And sorry, you're wrong on both counts, but thanks for playing along anyway.
I won't swear to this for all 50 states, but I know for a fact that in both Indiana (where I currently live) and Kentucky (where I used to live), if you're talking to me on my phone line, I can legally record that call any stinking time I want to, whether you know I'm recording or not. And which one of us originated the call is irrelevant. And if you come over to my house and use my phone to call your Aunt Bertha, I can still legally record it without either of you knowing it.
And a company can listen in on, and record, any conversation they want, so long as the policy that they are doing so is spelled out to the employees beforehand. They can also monitor what you do on the office computer, etc etc. And there are a number of court decisions affirming the rights of a company to do so.
I'll bet money that buried somewhere deep in that University of Wyoming Student Handbook there is a clause that says "its our network, we'll snoop it any damned time we want, and we'll block anything we want too", or words to that effect. If you don't like them snooping on you, then the solution is simple...don't use their network.
There is one small point you are overlooking here. They (the University of Wyoming) own the network they are snooping...you don't. That is what makes the difference between it being okay for them to do it and not okay for you to do it.
I'm curious to see if, now that the darling processor company of Slashdot, having announced DRM on future chips, will be met with the same hatred that similar announcements from both Microsoft and Intel have been met.
And no, moderators, this is not a troll. I have watched here, literally for years, as unpopular announcements from Intel and Micrsoft have been pronouced to be the work of the Anti-Christ, and then similar announcements from, using them as examples, Apple or AMD have been either quickly swept under the carpet, or passed off with offhand "well, its a competitor to Intel and Microsoft, so this time its good" attitude. Those of you who moderate this post down will only serve to further prove my point.
Part of me would like to go in to sermon mode here and proclaim how this is yet another reason we should begin work on educating the public and organizing a major boycott of all RIAA and MPAA tainted media in a specific time period...like for instance, Thanksgiving holiday weekend 2003 (boycott runs Wednesday morning to Monday morning).
Unfortunately, the general public does not care.
Add to that the fact that to be an effective protest, all downloading of RIAA/MPAA material would have to cease also...quite frankly I don't think most of you could go 5 days without downloading something illegal on Kazaa...
Somebody tell me...
This week, are we at war with Eurasia or Eastasia? I can't seem to remember...
They have a nic, so they are broadband ready.
/. stories about how Joe Average PC User is not willing to pay that much for net access.
But you really expect someone who is so tight they are buying a $199 PC to be willing to shell out $40+ a month for broadband access? Keep in mind all the previous
On the other hand, do you expect a total novice who is only interested in surfing the net who bought this cheap bargain basement PC to purchase and install his own modem? And know enough to get a Linux-supported modem at that?