However, the cat here is just a tool for you to accept the agreement. If you set up a device to automatically agree to a license without you fully reading it, you've still manifested an intent to accept the terms
Yeah, well, what if you used Schrodinger's cat? Then you have both accepted and not accepted the terms.
The BSA would just sue you twice, using the "signed it" theory in one case and the "didn't sign it" theory in the other.
The software and services fees for an ERP installation often run into the millions on dollars. And support contracts come up for renegotiation occasionally.
Can't the customer just cross out the relevant lines in the proposed contract and say, "fuck you"? And if they can't, because the vendor has so much control over the relationship, *that* along should be a cause of nightsweats for the CIO, CEO, and the board of directors.
It's very demoralizing when leaders encourage employees to proffer innovative ideas, and then basically ignores them. Or equally bad, shows favoritism in which ones are acted upon.
I can't imagine anything that would shut down employee participation faster than a sense that management isn't actually willing to act on them.
It strikes me that "reasonable expectation" would mean, "reasonable by those in the community in question".
Was this judge a regular Internet user? If not, is his opinion about what's a "reasonable expectation" relevant, or should he poll, for example, 1000 high-school and college kids regarding whether or not they expect their IP#'s to be tied back to them as people?
Yeah, family responsibilities can really make some otherwise simple moral decisions much more complicated. Hope it works out well for you, but also for the people these guys lie to. I hope you can get some different work when the economy improves. Good luck.
If every state says, "Our law goes into effect after a near-majority of other electors are bound by similar rules", then they're in deadlock.
When, oh when, will the Iowa legislature finally pass the laws requiring that all newly elected legislators have a master's in CS? That's it - I'm moving to Canada, next week for sure.
Does anyone know why we always give those "IANAL" disclaimers?
In the United States, it is not legal for anyone but an attorney whom you have retained, and who is admitted to the applicable Bar Association, to give you legal advice.
How far does that go? I mean, in the extreme, wouldn't that mean it's illegal for a cop to tell kids that they need to obey the speed limit?
I guess what I'm asking is what rules, if any, prevent that (absurd) example from being actually illegal?
Bruce wrote in to make sure we knew he was not a lawyer, even though he is weighing in on a legal issue, updated to reflect.
Does anyone know why we always give those "IANAL" disclaimers? Do we just say "IANAL" so that the reader doesn't take our opinion too seriously, or is there some kind of liability associated with not being a lawyer but sounding like you're giving legal advice?
There are no terms of use for a hardbound book. No publisher can say on the cover "by opening this book I agree to...".
Licenses aren't for end-users, they are for publishers. If I buy a copy of Garage, Inc (with its Free Speech for the Dumb cut), I can do anything with it I damned well please short of distributing copies (or, since they have the DMCA, cracking its DRM if it has any).
I believe the reason EULAs for bought software come into play is that some jackass judge ruled that using software is copying it, since the bits get copied to your computer's memory each time you use the software. And that's why the doctrine of first sale doesn't tell the whole story, the way it would with books.
But I could certainly be wrong. IANAL, thank goodness.
The problem isn't the forcing of "religion" on the people, it's the forcing of any belief system. That is far from gone, you're just aligned with this presidents beliefs so you don't feel the sting. Others who were aligned with the last president do feel that they are having beliefs forced on them.
Laws the prohibit murder force a belief system that opposes flat-out Laissez-Fair Darwinian survival of the fittest. Should laws prohibiting murder be stricken, since they force a belief system on the population?
How about laws prohibiting rape? Those enforce the belief system that satisfying mens' libidos and/or desire for violence aren't the highest good. Should we abolish those laws?
Or how about laws in general, which run contrary to anarchists' belief system. Show all laws be stricken?
A copyright owner doesn't have the right to issue terms of use, at least not in the US. The only thing you, as a copyright holder, can do is to keep me from making and distributing copies. Your copyright gives you no further rights than that.
I assume that terms of use can be a condition for them granting you a license to use that work. Isn't that the whole theory on which software EULAs rest?
You should have been at the function where he released 100 screaming Rhesus monkeys into the audience to highlight the problems of Ebola virus. It was great fun watching the attendees trying to avoid being bitten.
The monkeys were actually decimated in seconds, on account of all those "Punch the Monkey" flash ads.
With a clickthrough EULA there is no proof. When I install software on someone else's machine, and I click the EULA, how can they be held to it? If the EULA is on the box, how can they prove who opened the box?
I think this issue recently arose with some user writing bots for an online game. The problem is, if you don't agree to the EULA, then (ostensibly) you haven't met the copyright owner's terms for using their work. And thus, using the service/software/whatever is a violation of copyright law at that point.
Okay, this may be a stupid question, but I just don't know the answer:
Could the actual wind speed that we experience on the earth's surface be noticeably reduced if we go crazy building lots of wind mills? (I don't mean if you're standing right next to the wind mill tower. I'm talking about a more regional effect.)
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However, the cat here is just a tool for you to accept the agreement. If you set up a device to automatically agree to a license without you fully reading it, you've still manifested an intent to accept the terms
Yeah, well, what if you used Schrodinger's cat? Then you have both accepted and not accepted the terms.
The BSA would just sue you twice, using the "signed it" theory in one case and the "didn't sign it" theory in the other.
They're total quantum assholes!
The software and services fees for an ERP installation often run into the millions on dollars.
And support contracts come up for renegotiation occasionally.
Can't the customer just cross out the relevant lines in the proposed contract and say, "fuck you"? And if they can't, because the vendor has so much control over the relationship, *that* along should be a cause of nightsweats for the CIO, CEO, and the board of directors.
It's very demoralizing when leaders encourage employees to proffer innovative ideas, and then basically ignores them. Or equally bad, shows favoritism in which ones are acted upon.
I can't imagine anything that would shut down employee participation faster than a sense that management isn't actually willing to act on them.
It strikes me that "reasonable expectation" would mean, "reasonable by those in the community in question".
Was this judge a regular Internet user? If not, is his opinion about what's a "reasonable expectation" relevant, or should he poll, for example, 1000 high-school and college kids regarding whether or not they expect their IP#'s to be tied back to them as people?
Only a moron would go into one of those stores. Half the people going in there will get a virus in the first 20 minutes!
Yeah, family responsibilities can really make some otherwise simple moral decisions much more complicated. Hope it works out well for you, but also for the people these guys lie to. I hope you can get some different work when the economy improves. Good luck.
Is there any problem Python *can't* solve?
Only if you have the Balls.
If they try to get rid of all the rats, then who will sell the cars??
Oh you mean the furry rodent type... Gotcha!
Hah, I see your car dealers and raise you with timeshare sales guys
Believe me, I work with them and I can't believe that kind of crap they make people believe
Do you have any option of like, not helping these guys out? Is there somewhere else you can work?
If every state says, "Our law goes into effect after a near-majority of other electors are bound by similar rules", then they're in deadlock.
When, oh when, will the Iowa legislature finally pass the laws requiring that all newly elected legislators have a master's in CS? That's it - I'm moving to Canada, next week for sure.
You'd have a lot of dead pilots?
No, but there would be a hole in the fuselage where each lawyer was seated.
Maybe if we just posted Cheney at the end of the runway with a shotgun...
Does anyone know why we always give those "IANAL" disclaimers?
In the United States, it is not legal for anyone but an attorney whom you have retained, and who is admitted to the applicable Bar Association, to give you legal advice.
How far does that go? I mean, in the extreme, wouldn't that mean it's illegal for a cop to tell kids that they need to obey the speed limit?
I guess what I'm asking is what rules, if any, prevent that (absurd) example from being actually illegal?
If even he says that Linux is a pain in the ass to use, my advocacy days are over.
Does anyone know why we always give those "IANAL" disclaimers? Do we just say "IANAL" so that the reader doesn't take our opinion too seriously, or is there some kind of liability associated with not being a lawyer but sounding like you're giving legal advice?
I saw tons of webpage ads for Eve Online, but I never noticed anything about it running on Linux.
If I'd known that, there's a good chance I would have signed up, partially for the fun and partially to support games companies that support Linux.
Is the real lesson here that they didn't properly advertise their Linux compatibility? Or is it just that I need to get glasses?
There are no terms of use for a hardbound book. No publisher can say on the cover "by opening this book I agree to...".
Licenses aren't for end-users, they are for publishers. If I buy a copy of Garage, Inc (with its Free Speech for the Dumb cut), I can do anything with it I damned well please short of distributing copies (or, since they have the DMCA, cracking its DRM if it has any).
I believe the reason EULAs for bought software come into play is that some jackass judge ruled that using software is copying it, since the bits get copied to your computer's memory each time you use the software. And that's why the doctrine of first sale doesn't tell the whole story, the way it would with books.
But I could certainly be wrong. IANAL, thank goodness.
Laws the prohibit murder force a belief system that opposes flat-out Laissez-Fair Darwinian survival of the fittest. Should laws prohibiting murder be stricken, since they force a belief system on the population?
How about laws prohibiting rape? Those enforce the belief system that satisfying mens' libidos and/or desire for violence aren't the highest good. Should we abolish those laws?
Or how about laws in general, which run contrary to anarchists' belief system. Show all laws be stricken?
A copyright owner doesn't have the right to issue terms of use, at least not in the US. The only thing you, as a copyright holder, can do is to keep me from making and distributing copies. Your copyright gives you no further rights than that.
I assume that terms of use can be a condition for them granting you a license to use that work. Isn't that the whole theory on which software EULAs rest?
FWIW, I think it was abusive for anyone to mark your post as "Troll".
You should have been at the function where he released 100 screaming Rhesus monkeys into the audience to highlight the problems of Ebola virus. It was great fun watching the attendees trying to avoid being bitten.
The monkeys were actually decimated in seconds, on account of all those "Punch the Monkey" flash ads.
Well, at least this is change I can believe in. As in, it's certainly not hard to believe.
Damn.
I think this issue recently arose with some user writing bots for an online game. The problem is, if you don't agree to the EULA, then (ostensibly) you haven't met the copyright owner's terms for using their work. And thus, using the service/software/whatever is a violation of copyright law at that point.
Jeez, even his philanthropy has bugs!
Okay, this may be a stupid question, but I just don't know the answer:
Could the actual wind speed that we experience on the earth's surface be noticeably reduced if we go crazy building lots of wind mills? (I don't mean if you're standing right next to the wind mill tower. I'm talking about a more regional effect.)
Software only became patentable after Microsoft vs Stac, so this could be seen as just reversing a previous bit of judicial activism.
Great point. OTOH, the Congress could have written software patents out of the law if they really wanted to. But no argument on your point.