Uhh, about a year ago, we tried implimenting NT server and MS Exchange Server for mail. Software cost was 1100, I think, not including hardware.
Of course, this is not to mention the 3 new machines we had to come up with to allow for integration into a novell netware environment, and since we're not small but not big, we had more than one, uhh, I completely forgot the word, damnit, section (token ring, fast [100mps] ethernet, and regular [10mps] ethernet).
For the record, we've gone to groupwise, but I think it sucks, constant crashes, incompatablitity with certain other products we need.
I am not supporting "normal" society or any of it's institutions, it's just that I don't like the assumption that people that don't have their face in a screen, test tube, or whatever.
Philosophers and artists are even more undervalued (and criticised) than our technical brothers-in-"weirdness." Our skills are above the average consumer's ablility of comprehention. We don't make 3d cards or upgrade our system three times a day.
At least geek skills can be used in the "real" world, some of the other oddities like us have to wait 'til we're dead before we have use.
Why am I on news for nerds? Because I'm a nerd too, but only because it helps with everything else.
"The fact is a high IQ (170 plus) brings with it a demonstrated lack of interest in sex and social skills because both are herd glue; they're the ken of genetic losers, but don't speak this truth too loudly."
Okay, I may not have an IQ in that range, but I'm above average(humbly). But, knowing people in that range, they are interested in sex and social skills because they know what usage of such skills can bring them, especially females (I'm sorry if this offends anyone). Don't think I'm pulling this out of my ass, I've seen women do this.
Of course, some of the brighter people don't care either, or they know what fun it can be.
I'm sorry if you don't agree, but I'd rather interact with a real human or a piece of art than a keyboard any day. (Yes, code can be art, I'd say.)
Diff'nt strokes, I reck'n, but don't say the way I live my life is wrong or herd-like because me or other people care about things other than you.
Oh, I seek to understand what I feel, I don't ignore it. Though I could see why it would be bliss to do so.
Thanks for responding It must be tested Totally agree. I hope Linux comes out on top...I sincerely believe that it will...but it's my responsibility to be open to an alternate outcome. Okay, I was responding to one point in your post, we both know this, and I know that you didn't mean it quite the way it came out, but I still felt inspired. It's not often that I do that, well, at least as effectively. The most secure OS will win, and we ALL know that that hasn't come out yet. Linux isn't it, WinNT isn't it, Mac isn't it, BeOS isn't it(not much of a server even, but it's not made for that, which is another point, but I like mentioning my fav OS in any post:), FreeBSD isn't it. Any system that is turned on is insecure. We all know this. It's the first rule of computer security. However, all solutions must be tested fairly. I'm all for these competitions, not because today the NT folks come out on top and tomorrow Linux will, and so on, and their respective zealot users will still bicker and post on comp.os.*.advocacy. As long as the coders and testers and hackers (the survival of the fittest element) realize what's going on, I think these contests do nothing but help. For *'s sake, it's just an operating system! Just because I'd build a machine for my girlfriend and put windows on it doesn't mean windows is the end all/be all. Just cuz I'd choose Be as my desktop and Linux as my local server, doesn't mean anything! Security is everyone's buisiness, not just the NT or the *nix folks or the mac folks either. When one site gets hacked, there's something wrong, fix it, no matter the OS. This pesky OS battle shit is dumb and we all know it, even if we continue with our little Linux/Be/Win/Mac/BSD/Amiega/Unix/(brand new thing here), we need to get our heads out of our ass and realize that command prompt or mouse pointer, there's work to do. For some of us that's security and stability issues. For others it's just to type a memo, for others still it's the great american novel or CD of the year. Have a nice day.
Fact is, we all know that Linux can squish NT flat. Let's set up a test that proves that. See the linux user in his native habitat, he's tensed, poised, awake, and banging at his keyboard in anger that someone may have cracked his sacred linux, even if it was a cheap shot. He's letting his real skin show, and it's as ugly as the linux command prompt or the blue screen of death. He wants to set up a test that proves that linux is better. The linux user is unaware that such a test is stupid and proves nothing. This is an interesting speciman, of course. But the average Linux or NT zealot would all speak the same way. "They know they are the best, so let's set up a test that proves it." It shows everyone that the truth is hard to deal with no matter which side of the fence you are on. They don't want security, they want their way. Oh no! Here comes Demons and TAO, "the ultimate OS" representatives! Amiga and BE! OH! The humanity, they're squabbling for leftovers! Oh, the elephant of NT is here, trying to trample them all! Penguins are being smashed by the dozens, more and more are pecking furiously at the the elephent. It's getting too much for the pachdyrm, it slumps down and dies. The demon rips off the trunk of the dead evil NT elephant, and the penguins keep pecking and sqwaking, sure of their superiority. Is that movement in the bush? Oh, indeed it is! I can't quite make it out, but it's grabbing everything and eating them alive! Oh! The humanity! They never saw what hit them. They were just standing there, all quacking and whatever else they might do, and something ate them all! Oh, my Lord! What predator can do such a thing? Obviously it must be higher on the evolutionary ladder! We had best get out while we can! Signing off, and remember, don't ever stand still and gloat and assume your're safe, or you'll get eaten.
I come from a similar situation, with a lot more DOS use then the average computer user.
I use windows because all my hardware works in it (or else I'd us BeOS:). I've been contimplating installing linux (third time i've done it, and I still don't know what I'm doing) on my current machine, just because.
It won't support my hardware, (so the howto tells me, it's a dlink DFE 530-TX, e-mail me if you have drivers or info otherwise, please, no, it's not NE2000 compatable) but I want to learn.
At least, unlike a lot of windows users, you ain't afraid to learn.
My windows doesn't crash hardly at all(when it does, it's a doozy, though). I don't know what everyone elses problem is. Win98 uptime before I do something stupid is about a week.
I use windows for hardware, I don't care if I can read office documents, I WRITE all the documents. So, until Be comes out with drivers for my network card (or d-link, the bastards, I go for a non 3com solution to save 50 bucks and this is what I get), I'm staying with windows as a primary OS and Be as a curiosity.
But I do have a linux (err, had, it was reassigned and inpregnated with a workgroup novell server) machine at work. At least they saved a drive image.
Okay, sorry if that was all convoluted and didn't make sense. bye
A swastica was a modified cross, specifically designed for the nazi cause, therefore it was purely a hate symbol. Bzzt, try again. The swastica is a religious symbol, not a cross, though. The main difference between the one we all know and hate and the old religious one is that one is turned backwards. http://www.bme.freeq.com/people/m anwoman/index.htmlis a little page with some guy who thinks he saw god or something, but along with the stuff that he has to say, there's a bit about the history of this symbol. Little quote: "I encountered enormous resistance to my use of the swastika. Most people who had been born since World War II had never heard of any sacred swastikas or good luck swastikas. Only a few of the old folks remembered it. How could I overcome the enormous prejudice against it that was reinforced by the media constantly?" have a good one
I'm assuming you know Tool too? Who are they? http://toolshed.down.net is a fan site. How does this tie in to the subject, I'm wondering if sites like toolshed will be harmed in this, preexisting sites (not that tool is on sony, they're on zomba, or zoo, or volcano? [hows that for corprate restructureing]).
Plenty of fan sites use the names. Toolshed, the now defunct www.failure.org. What if these are still "property" of another entity?
"One guy I know hasn't ever had a girlfriend and he's just turned 27. "
Well, I can't say he doesn't deserve it, well, at least the one or two dicks I know don't deserve to EVER have a girlfriend, or even a boyfriend, if that's what they like. They're complete jerks.
Only one of them is a geek. The other one is gonna be an English teacher. Don't have kids. You were warned.
Some people just don't get with people cuz they're too afraid. They don't love the one they are with, but are afraid to move on, etc.
The concept of being alone terrifies me.
I don't care if my girlfriend is a "guru" or not, as long as she isn't afraid to ask me what a gigabyte is.
All the cash in the world doesn't (by itself) undo what has already been done. That would take a techonological breakthrough that leaves Linux and GNU in the dust, but is also closed source. I don't see it. Do you?
Who do you think BUYS a linux install anyway, some one who knows how to do a net install over thier dsl??? Nope, its the same folks who BUY software and expect it to work out of the box( yes it has a box) with MINIMAL hassle. Zzzz. This is stupid and you know it. I never expect software to work out of the box . . . Seriously: I bought a distro because I don't have a dsl, or anything else like that, and the phone lines around my area limit me to ~28.8 on the good ol' modem. I bought a distro because I don't want to have to futz with waiting for the same bad phone lines at work . . . Matter of fact, until recently, the only ISP in my little town was one called AOL. Hehe. "Times, they are a changin'." Get off this "commercial distro's are crap" ethic, you're annoying me and others around you. What you say makes sense only until you look at it for more time than it takes to go "RedHat suckz, d00dz." or "GUI is for MORONS(or whatever)!" I probably looked to much into what you wrote, so don't take it too seriously. Thanks for your time.
IT managers need to see things like an IPO and articles in the Wall Street Journal about Red Hat -- it gets Linux and OSS on their radar. It's already happened. I installed a Linux machine here a week ago at where I work (a bank, so we know about the RH IPO). My boss knew what I was doing, and was cool with it, because he reads some tech journals. The pleasent surprise came when he had a meeting with his boss. Guess what was asked. "What about this new Linux thing?" Bing, we had a machine up, down here in our little cubbyhole, and we could have showed him, except, well, he was busy. But manager types are noticing. Now, if only we could get the federal government to make linux programs to use (talk about irony with the DOJ trial and writing windows software on the other end!) I hope they see the use in BeOS, too. Everything has a place, even Microsoft. Even if it's just so we learn about our mistakes. Thanks for your time.
Okay, I can go with that, as long as I get to be free too.
I'm an animal, so are you. You're made of organic substences, right? So, we should all go back to the wild, abandon our computers, and gather small fruits and insects for our supper. Wouldn't that be quaint?
If a superior being came to earth, hell yeah he/she could do whatever they wanted to us. Don't give me that "noble cause" stuff.
You're here to be used, and so are they. Don't think so? Ask your boss.
Slashdot Mirror
Uhh, about a year ago, we tried implimenting NT server and MS Exchange Server for mail. Software cost was 1100, I think, not including hardware.
Of course, this is not to mention the 3 new machines we had to come up with to allow for integration into a novell netware environment, and since we're not small but not big, we had more than one, uhh, I completely forgot the word, damnit, section (token ring, fast [100mps] ethernet, and regular [10mps] ethernet).
For the record, we've gone to groupwise, but I think it sucks, constant crashes, incompatablitity with certain other products we need.
DOH!
Sorry, forgot:
I am not supporting "normal" society or any of it's institutions, it's just that I don't like the assumption that people that don't have their face in a screen, test tube, or whatever.
Philosophers and artists are even more undervalued (and criticised) than our technical brothers-in-"weirdness." Our skills are above the average consumer's ablility of comprehention. We don't make 3d cards or upgrade our system three times a day.
At least geek skills can be used in the "real" world, some of the other oddities like us have to wait 'til we're dead before we have use.
Why am I on news for nerds? Because I'm a nerd too, but only because it helps with everything else.
"The fact is a high IQ (170 plus) brings with it a demonstrated lack of interest in sex and social skills because both are herd glue; they're the ken of genetic losers, but don't speak this truth too loudly."
Okay, I may not have an IQ in that range, but I'm above average(humbly). But, knowing people in that range, they are interested in sex and social skills because they know what usage of such skills can bring them, especially females (I'm sorry if this offends anyone). Don't think I'm pulling this out of my ass, I've seen women do this.
Of course, some of the brighter people don't care either, or they know what fun it can be.
I'm sorry if you don't agree, but I'd rather interact with a real human or a piece of art than a keyboard any day. (Yes, code can be art, I'd say.)
Diff'nt strokes, I reck'n, but don't say the way I live my life is wrong or herd-like because me or other people care about things other than you.
Oh, I seek to understand what I feel, I don't ignore it. Though I could see why it would be bliss to do so.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks for responding ...I sincerely believe that it will ...but it's my responsibility to be open to an alternate outcome.
It must be tested
Totally agree.
I hope Linux comes out on top
Okay, I was responding to one point in your post, we both know this, and I know that you didn't mean it quite the way it came out, but I still felt inspired. It's not often that I do that, well, at least as effectively.
The most secure OS will win, and we ALL know that that hasn't come out yet.
Linux isn't it, WinNT isn't it, Mac isn't it, BeOS isn't it(not much of a server even, but it's not made for that, which is another point, but I like mentioning my fav OS in any post:), FreeBSD isn't it.
Any system that is turned on is insecure. We all know this. It's the first rule of computer security. However, all solutions must be tested fairly.
I'm all for these competitions, not because today the NT folks come out on top and tomorrow Linux will, and so on, and their respective zealot users will still bicker and post on comp.os.*.advocacy. As long as the coders and testers and hackers (the survival of the fittest element) realize what's going on, I think these contests do nothing but help.
For *'s sake, it's just an operating system!
Just because I'd build a machine for my girlfriend and put windows on it doesn't mean windows is the end all/be all. Just cuz I'd choose Be as my desktop and Linux as my local server, doesn't mean anything!
Security is everyone's buisiness, not just the NT or the *nix folks or the mac folks either. When one site gets hacked, there's something wrong, fix it, no matter the OS.
This pesky OS battle shit is dumb and we all know it, even if we continue with our little Linux/Be/Win/Mac/BSD/Amiega/Unix/(brand new thing here), we need to get our heads out of our ass and realize that command prompt or mouse pointer, there's work to do.
For some of us that's security and stability issues. For others it's just to type a memo, for others still it's the great american novel or CD of the year.
Have a nice day.
That was bad, very bad. Very funny, too. :-)
bye
Fact is, we all know that Linux can squish NT flat. Let's set up a test that proves that.
See the linux user in his native habitat, he's tensed, poised, awake, and banging at his keyboard in anger that someone may have cracked his sacred linux, even if it was a cheap shot. He's letting his real skin show, and it's as ugly as the linux command prompt or the blue screen of death. He wants to set up a test that proves that linux is better. The linux user is unaware that such a test is stupid and proves nothing.
This is an interesting speciman, of course. But the average Linux or NT zealot would all speak the same way. "They know they are the best, so let's set up a test that proves it." It shows everyone that the truth is hard to deal with no matter which side of the fence you are on. They don't want security, they want their way.
Oh no! Here comes Demons and TAO, "the ultimate OS" representatives! Amiga and BE! OH! The humanity, they're squabbling for leftovers! Oh, the elephant of NT is here, trying to trample them all! Penguins are being smashed by the dozens, more and more are pecking furiously at the the elephent. It's getting too much for the pachdyrm, it slumps down and dies. The demon rips off the trunk of the dead evil NT elephant, and the penguins keep pecking and sqwaking, sure of their superiority.
Is that movement in the bush? Oh, indeed it is! I can't quite make it out, but it's grabbing everything and eating them alive! Oh! The humanity!
They never saw what hit them. They were just standing there, all quacking and whatever else they might do, and something ate them all! Oh, my Lord! What predator can do such a thing? Obviously it must be higher on the evolutionary ladder!
We had best get out while we can!
Signing off, and remember, don't ever stand still and gloat and assume your're safe, or you'll get eaten.
dlink DFE 530-TX is Linux compatable, just got an e-mail from d-link with an address of the drivers.
I know I looked, oh well.
Congratulations on a statement well said.
I come from a similar situation, with a lot more DOS use then the average computer user.
I use windows because all my hardware works in it (or else I'd us BeOS:). I've been contimplating installing linux (third time i've done it, and I still don't know what I'm doing) on my current machine, just because.
It won't support my hardware, (so the howto tells me, it's a dlink DFE 530-TX, e-mail me if you have drivers or info otherwise, please, no, it's not NE2000 compatable) but I want to learn.
At least, unlike a lot of windows users, you ain't afraid to learn.
My windows doesn't crash hardly at all(when it does, it's a doozy, though). I don't know what everyone elses problem is. Win98 uptime before I do something stupid is about a week.
I use windows for hardware, I don't care if I can read office documents, I WRITE all the documents. So, until Be comes out with drivers for my network card (or d-link, the bastards, I go for a non 3com solution to save 50 bucks and this is what I get), I'm staying with windows as a primary OS and Be as a curiosity.
But I do have a linux (err, had, it was reassigned and inpregnated with a workgroup novell server) machine at work. At least they saved a drive image.
Okay, sorry if that was all convoluted and didn't make sense.
bye
A swastica was a modified cross, specifically designed for the nazi cause, therefore it was purely a hate symbol.
Bzzt, try again.
The swastica is a religious symbol, not a cross, though. The main difference between the one we all know and hate and the old religious one is that one is turned backwards.
http://www.bme.freeq.com/people/m anwoman/index.htmlis a little page with some guy who thinks he saw god or something, but along with the stuff that he has to say, there's a bit about the history of this symbol.
Little quote: "I encountered enormous resistance to my use of the swastika. Most people who had been born since World War II had never heard of any sacred swastikas or good luck swastikas. Only a few of the old folks remembered it. How could I overcome the enormous prejudice against it that was reinforced by the media constantly?"
have a good one
No clothes, no guns:
http://www.ilstu.edu/~drmaure/2/mick.html
bye
I'm assuming you know Tool too? Who are they? http://toolshed.down.net is a fan site. How does this tie in to the subject, I'm wondering if sites like toolshed will be harmed in this, preexisting sites (not that tool is on sony, they're on zomba, or zoo, or volcano? [hows that for corprate restructureing]).
Plenty of fan sites use the names. Toolshed, the now defunct www.failure.org. What if these are still "property" of another entity?
later
> See, if I were making Y2K contingency plans
> for, say, a bank (which, thankfully, I'm not) I
> would be
Well, working for a bank, I know we'll have more cash on hand, and everything will work (I know, I've checked it all, damnit.)
And it better, because I also bank there.
But the Marketing Types have been going apeshit over "We're Y2K Ready" crap. Grr. So annoying.
later
Remember, if you're gonna hold up a bank in the U.K., you can't have a gun, so just go:
"Every body, hand over your money, I've got a soccer ball!"
"Oh shit, Ian, he's got a Spalding, he must be serious."
On a lighter note, because Brits are too polite to rob banks:
"Some hooligans knocked over a dustbin in . . . "
I wouldn't call them hooligans. They might turn into scalliwags.
r.i.p. bill hicks
bye
I think he's in the studio . . .
yes, yes,
I think he's in the studio . . .
yes, yes,
But, if Dennis is/was drunk, they surely wouldn't want to give Bobby his liver! That would be supplying alchohol to a minor!
Yeah, I know . . .
"One guy I know hasn't ever had a girlfriend and he's just turned 27. "
Well, I can't say he doesn't deserve it, well, at least the one or two dicks I know don't deserve to EVER have a girlfriend, or even a boyfriend, if that's what they like. They're complete jerks.
Only one of them is a geek. The other one is gonna be an English teacher. Don't have kids. You were warned.
Some people just don't get with people cuz they're too afraid. They don't love the one they are with, but are afraid to move on, etc.
The concept of being alone terrifies me.
I don't care if my girlfriend is a "guru" or not, as long as she isn't afraid to ask me what a gigabyte is.
Just glad I got someone willing to learn . . .
later
Ever use a microwave? Medicine has had a few advances. Of course, if I'm wrong, someone will say something . . . later
All the cash in the world doesn't (by itself) undo what has already been done. That would take a techonological breakthrough that leaves Linux and GNU in the dust, but is also closed source. I don't see it. Do you?
:-) And wouldn't you like to know.
Yes, yes I do.
laughing all the way to the bank:
Who do you think BUYS a linux install anyway, some one who knows how to do a net install over thier dsl??? Nope, its the same folks who BUY software and expect it to work out of the box( yes it has a box) with MINIMAL hassle.
Zzzz. This is stupid and you know it. I never expect software to work out of the box . . .
Seriously:
I bought a distro because I don't have a dsl, or anything else like that, and the phone lines around my area limit me to ~28.8 on the good ol' modem. I bought a distro because I don't want to have to futz with waiting for the same bad phone lines at work . . .
Matter of fact, until recently, the only ISP in my little town was one called AOL. Hehe. "Times, they are a changin'."
Get off this "commercial distro's are crap" ethic, you're annoying me and others around you. What you say makes sense only until you look at it for more time than it takes to go "RedHat suckz, d00dz." or "GUI is for MORONS(or whatever)!"
I probably looked to much into what you wrote, so don't take it too seriously.
Thanks for your time.
IT managers need to see things like an IPO and articles in the Wall Street Journal about Red Hat -- it gets Linux and OSS on their radar.
It's already happened. I installed a Linux machine here a week ago at where I work (a bank, so we know about the RH IPO). My boss knew what I was doing, and was cool with it, because he reads some tech journals.
The pleasent surprise came when he had a meeting with his boss. Guess what was asked.
"What about this new Linux thing?"
Bing, we had a machine up, down here in our little cubbyhole, and we could have showed him, except, well, he was busy. But manager types are noticing.
Now, if only we could get the federal government to make linux programs to use (talk about irony with the DOJ trial and writing windows software on the other end!)
I hope they see the use in BeOS, too. Everything has a place, even Microsoft. Even if it's just so we learn about our mistakes.
Thanks for your time.
It's boring, and stupid, and fish tastes nasty too.
My philosophy:
"If you're gonna kill it, you should eat it." Jeffery Dahlmer took it a little far, IMO.
Yeah, well, I'll conjure Adhurartasia on your ass.
Okay, I can go with that, as long as I get to be free too.
I'm an animal, so are you. You're made of organic substences, right? So, we should all go back to the wild, abandon our computers, and gather small fruits and insects for our supper. Wouldn't that be quaint?
If a superior being came to earth, hell yeah he/she could do whatever they wanted to us. Don't give me that "noble cause" stuff.
You're here to be used, and so are they. Don't think so? Ask your boss.
later
It's always been my opinion that Mac's have a clunky interface, it just doesn't flow the way I do . . . Be is better for me.
Linux on PPC is a GOOD THING, because PPC tech is usually better than intel based tech, but it's not as prevalent and such.
oh well, one of those days.
I hope be is easier to put on a novell network than linux is . . ( yeah, I'm lazy and totally new to it)
later