To forestall nitpickers: I am aware that there are small-form PC motherboards, and there's even that clone of the Mac Mini from AOpen. That's not my point. Apple wants design flexibility. Google for the online pictures of the iMac G4 motherboard, for example.
Yes, but don't get excited. This is probably a quickie whitebox PC motherboard, because that's what they could duplicate quickly enough to get it out for developers immediately. Rest assured that Apple will not be quick to give up their in-house motherboard design capabilities -- if they did, they'd have to wait for a motherboard vendor to build boards to support custom form factors like the iMac G5 and the Mac Mini. Not to mention future PowerBooks.
Further, Apple isn't going to launch with a standard BIOS. All the crap that you normally configure in BIOS setup isn't necessary with Apple's "total-package" hardware/software, and the BIOS would slow down the boot time.
Indeed, the Republican Taliban are on the rise and out to kill science and replace it with "good ol' fashioned valews".
It's not a liberal treehugger fantasy, people:When a leading psychologist like Harvard's Howard Gardner calls the president's science adviser a "prostitute," it's a safe bet that all is not well in the realm of government science policy. Indeed, in the past month, the United States has been engulfed by a kind of "science war," one pitting much of the nation's scientific community against the current administration. Led by twenty Nobel laureates, the scientists say Bush's government has systematically distorted and undermined scientific information in pursuit of political objectives. Examples include the suppression and censorship of reports on subjects like climate change and mercury pollution, the stacking of scientific advisory panels, and the suspicious removal of scientific information from government Web sites.
What I don't get is where all the fundies think they're going to get medicine from without science.
Oh, I forgot. Only gays get AIDS, and other diseases are simply God punishing the poor and the unwed, like Ronald Reagan. Never mind.
Linux has made me angry, Windows has infuriated me, and Macs make me feel kind of creepy.
Have you considered therapy? Seriously. Not trolling. Or, how about channeling those feelings into something useful by finding a job with somebody who's trying to improve UI, like Apple, Novell, or Red Hat?
Don't forget the brilliant ploy of hiring the engineering management masterminds directly responsible for Apple's Copland disaster. (*cough*DavidNagle*cough*).
Some tangents: Apple's StarTrek project, which I assume you're referring to, was based around Novell DOS, not Mach.
Likewise Apple's version has support for soft realtime, which has also been added to monokernels. So in the end the Mac runs slower than it could, and I am hard pressed to find an upside.
Two upsides:
1. Mature memory management. FreeBSD uses a VM system based on Mach concepts. Linux does too. What really killed Copland, more than anything else, was that it was friggin' slow. This made it impossible to demo effectively. The immature VM system was a big reason -- it was evicting pages from the buffer cache in the wrong order.
2. I find stability to be a big advantage. Fundamentally, it's easier to ensure type safety with message-passing than with traditional system calls, even though Mach 3 uses "untyped" messages.
Is it better than L4 or Spring? Probably not. I'd love to participate in a project to get Mac OS X up and running on Spring or L4.
Against my better judgement, I'm going to attempt a rational response to your flame, because either I didn't communicate clearly or you are misunderstanding my comments, and either way, it bothers me.
You obviously work on a grand total of a couple thousand lines of code at work, if at all, and aren't working in a source control managed environment.
Let's make grandiose and inaccurate assumptions, shall we? FYI, I've written version control systems and worked on large portions of commerical operating systems. On really big systems, I hate to tell you, sometimes history isn't there either. Some version control systems suck worse than CVS, as you ought to know from your vast experience.
Apple is what it is: a talented amoral corporation led by a greedy egotistical amoral CEO. They aren't "Different", they aren't "feeeel-gooood", and they don't care about OSS unless it makes them money.
This displays profound ignorance about Apple's motivations, and those of Steve Jobs, a man notoriously unaffected by money. He was a billionare before he was thirty. Money doesn't move him. He can be convinced, you idiot.
And you -- you -- you're wasting time flaming me. Apple can be convinced to really buy into open source. Since you're so much more experienced, intelligent, and moral than I am, why not set up a meeting with Jobs?
Because I'll tell you something: Apple has neither the version control technology nor the internal motivation to provide history. They use CVS. The last time they tried to export source via external CVS servers, with Darwin, it didn't work out so well. So they shut it down. They could fix this, but they don't care enough about open source. Tell you what: you should either help them care, or go fix KDE so that it's a viable alternative GUI.
Jesus. Nothing better on slashdot than to be flamed by some holier-than-thou script kiddie who contributes a couple of lines of code to KDE and thinks he's qualified to judge "morals."
They don't provide a CVS history, just the modified files where nobody can understand how and when things have changed
So the KHTML guys have never heard of diff?
Look, I'm not gonna defend Apple's total lack of commitment to real open source development principles (typified by their use of the APSL for Apple-developed code rather than a BSD license), but this post comes off as whining, and, as such, is not helpful to the cause, which is to get Apple's executive management clued in.
Mods, if you're going to mod something "informative", please do at least a cursory google search first. Apple developed the Mac from scratch. This is well documented.
How large our social spending really is is cleverly hidden. Much of it is sliced off the top of incoming tax dollars, what's left becomes the dollars that are 'budgeted', the providing a misleading indication of how much money is going where.
Really, gosh, you'd think that 'secret' 'off-the-top' skim by the godless homosexual judge-loving liberals would have been the first thing the [strike]Chosen Race[/strike] the Bush Administration would have shitcanned.
Let's see the goddamn proof. Let's have reputable statistics from a government budget demonstrating your Fox News tinfoil hat liberal-conspiracy theory.
I'm tired of neofacist right-wing troll bullshit on blogs, on slashdot, on television, and in all the newspapers, of all places. Gimme some proof, or go back to the sewer.
anyone who thinks that Telco's are trying to "recoup" losses associated with the copper plant is just naive.... If you don't believe me call your ilec and ask. Even better ask to have it removed...that's always good for a laugh.
Parent poster may know this, but I wanted others to know: Fred Brooks is also one of the people who laid the foundation for modern computer architecture back in the late fifties/early sixties. The Mythical Man Month isn't clear about this, IIRC, but Fred Brooks was actually the lead _hardware_ architect on the IBM System/360 project, and then later the OS/360 manager.
"funny" if you want, but realize that he's not kidding. Somewhere there are still probably several 7100's 8100's with my blood on their motherboards...
There is no burning desire to draw up swastikas, nor is there a really yearning to remove government from your lives. You all are happy, much like we are.
Are we, now? At least half of us voted against this administration in the last election. Our legal representation was stolen from us in the 2000 presidential election, and they managed to fix the 2004 election -- big surprise.
And let's be really clear about this, Slashdot Republicans:
Bush will never be a succesful Nazi, he and all the people he surrounds himself with are far too incompetent. But he has opened the door for the next round of true evil. The next administration will have an excellent idea of what they can get away with. Nobody thought it could happen here, but it will -- Bush's anti-anal-sex crusade and hands-off GOP-based fixing of Ohio in the last election has guaranteed it.
Who knew all it would take for perhaps otherwise sane people was inflaming incipient homophobia in the incest states? I would never have guessed.
QNX got interprocess communication right. Most academic microkernels, including Mach and L4, get it wrong. The key concept can be summed up in one phrase - "What you want is a subroutine call. What the OS usually gives you is an I/O operation". QNX has an interprocess communication primitive, "MsgSend", which works like a subroutine call - you pass a structure in, wait for the other process to respond, and you get another structure back. This makes interprocess communication not only convenient, but fast.
Huh? Your description applies equally to mach_msg_send, the primary Mach IPC primitive. What am I missing?
Slashdot Mirror
Grandparent is spreading misinformation.
Thanks, George. Anything else to share with us from Skywalker Ranch?
To forestall nitpickers: I am aware that there are small-form PC motherboards, and there's even that clone of the Mac Mini from AOpen. That's not my point. Apple wants design flexibility. Google for the online pictures of the iMac G4 motherboard, for example.
Further, Apple isn't going to launch with a standard BIOS. All the crap that you normally configure in BIOS setup isn't necessary with Apple's "total-package" hardware/software, and the BIOS would slow down the boot time.
My money's on EFI.
Widespread adoption has never happened before at that price. What's different now? Older gamers want to pay more ? Well, maybe. Try $199.
It's not a liberal treehugger fantasy, people: When a leading psychologist like Harvard's Howard Gardner calls the president's science adviser a "prostitute," it's a safe bet that all is not well in the realm of government science policy. Indeed, in the past month, the United States has been engulfed by a kind of "science war," one pitting much of the nation's scientific community against the current administration. Led by twenty Nobel laureates, the scientists say Bush's government has systematically distorted and undermined scientific information in pursuit of political objectives. Examples include the suppression and censorship of reports on subjects like climate change and mercury pollution, the stacking of scientific advisory panels, and the suspicious removal of scientific information from government Web sites.
What I don't get is where all the fundies think they're going to get medicine from without science.
Oh, I forgot. Only gays get AIDS, and other diseases are simply God punishing the poor and the unwed, like Ronald Reagan. Never mind.
Have you considered therapy? Seriously. Not trolling. Or, how about channeling those feelings into something useful by finding a job with somebody who's trying to improve UI, like Apple, Novell, or Red Hat?
Don't forget the brilliant ploy of hiring the engineering management masterminds directly responsible for Apple's Copland disaster. (*cough*DavidNagle*cough*).
All of this is fixed in the latest generation ("Roomba Discovery") line. Go for it.
Likewise Apple's version has support for soft realtime, which has also been added to monokernels. So in the end the Mac runs slower than it could, and I am hard pressed to find an upside.
Two upsides:
1. Mature memory management. FreeBSD uses a VM system based on Mach concepts. Linux does too. What really killed Copland, more than anything else, was that it was friggin' slow. This made it impossible to demo effectively. The immature VM system was a big reason -- it was evicting pages from the buffer cache in the wrong order.
2. I find stability to be a big advantage. Fundamentally, it's easier to ensure type safety with message-passing than with traditional system calls, even though Mach 3 uses "untyped" messages.
Is it better than L4 or Spring? Probably not. I'd love to participate in a project to get Mac OS X up and running on Spring or L4.
You obviously work on a grand total of a couple thousand lines of code at work, if at all, and aren't working in a source control managed environment.
Let's make grandiose and inaccurate assumptions, shall we? FYI, I've written version control systems and worked on large portions of commerical operating systems. On really big systems, I hate to tell you, sometimes history isn't there either. Some version control systems suck worse than CVS, as you ought to know from your vast experience.
Apple is what it is: a talented amoral corporation led by a greedy egotistical amoral CEO. They aren't "Different", they aren't "feeeel-gooood", and they don't care about OSS unless it makes them money.
This displays profound ignorance about Apple's motivations, and those of Steve Jobs, a man notoriously unaffected by money. He was a billionare before he was thirty. Money doesn't move him. He can be convinced, you idiot.
And you -- you -- you're wasting time flaming me. Apple can be convinced to really buy into open source. Since you're so much more experienced, intelligent, and moral than I am, why not set up a meeting with Jobs?
Because I'll tell you something: Apple has neither the version control technology nor the internal motivation to provide history. They use CVS. The last time they tried to export source via external CVS servers, with Darwin, it didn't work out so well. So they shut it down. They could fix this, but they don't care enough about open source. Tell you what: you should either help them care, or go fix KDE so that it's a viable alternative GUI.
Jesus. Nothing better on slashdot than to be flamed by some holier-than-thou script kiddie who contributes a couple of lines of code to KDE and thinks he's qualified to judge "morals."
You obviously work on a grand total of a couple thousand lines of code at work, if at all, and aren't working in a source control managed environment.
Jesus christ, this shit gets modded up?
So the KHTML guys have never heard of diff?
Look, I'm not gonna defend Apple's total lack of commitment to real open source development principles (typified by their use of the APSL for Apple-developed code rather than a BSD license), but this post comes off as whining, and, as such, is not helpful to the cause, which is to get Apple's executive management clued in.
Enable it? Why isn't intelligent behavior the default?
Mods, if you're going to mod something "informative", please do at least a cursory google search first. Apple developed the Mac from scratch. This is well documented.
Mod parent up. Struth.
Really, gosh, you'd think that 'secret' 'off-the-top' skim by the godless homosexual judge-loving liberals would have been the first thing the [strike]Chosen Race[/strike] the Bush Administration would have shitcanned.
Let's see the goddamn proof. Let's have reputable statistics from a government budget demonstrating your Fox News tinfoil hat liberal-conspiracy theory.
I'm tired of neofacist right-wing troll bullshit on blogs, on slashdot, on television, and in all the newspapers, of all places. Gimme some proof, or go back to the sewer.
anyone who thinks that Telco's are trying to "recoup" losses associated with the copper plant is just naive. ... If you don't believe me call your ilec and ask. Even better ask to have it removed...that's always good for a laugh.
Non-sequitur. Waiting does cost you nothing, because you are free to do other things while waiting.
Hmm... I doubted this statement, but I was wrong:
In 1980, the 3.5 inch floppy drive and diskette was introduced by Sony.
Parent poster may know this, but I wanted others to know: Fred Brooks is also one of the people who laid the foundation for modern computer architecture back in the late fifties/early sixties. The Mythical Man Month isn't clear about this, IIRC, but Fred Brooks was actually the lead _hardware_ architect on the IBM System/360 project, and then later the OS/360 manager.
I'd say the fact that their desktop machines and 'servers' didn't have anywhere near the level of design that the PowerBooks had didn't help either.
"funny" if you want, but realize that he's not kidding. Somewhere there are still probably several 7100's 8100's with my blood on their motherboards...
Are we, now? At least half of us voted against this administration in the last election. Our legal representation was stolen from us in the 2000 presidential election, and they managed to fix the 2004 election -- big surprise.
And let's be really clear about this, Slashdot Republicans:
Bush will never be a succesful Nazi, he and all the people he surrounds himself with are far too incompetent. But he has opened the door for the next round of true evil. The next administration will have an excellent idea of what they can get away with. Nobody thought it could happen here, but it will -- Bush's anti-anal-sex crusade and hands-off GOP-based fixing of Ohio in the last election has guaranteed it.
Who knew all it would take for perhaps otherwise sane people was inflaming incipient homophobia in the incest states? I would never have guessed.
Huh? Your description applies equally to mach_msg_send, the primary Mach IPC primitive. What am I missing?