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Jobs Claims Microsoft Is Shamelessly Copying
Nicholas Roussos writes "Steve Jobs was outspoken at a recent annual shareholder meeting. He claimed 'They are shamelessly copying us', referring to Microsoft. Of course, Microsoft has done its share of pointing fingers as well." From the article: "Most telling, Jobs said is that Tiger, the next version of Mac OS X, will go on sale later this month, while Longhorn is still more than a year away."
Search: Tiger will feature a built-in local search technology called "Spotlight" (technology built upon the search engines that Apple currently uses to search iTunes and e-mail). Microsoft has said it plans to offer a similar local-machine search engine for Longhorn that will be based on the company's Windows File System (WinFS) technology.
Scripting:Tiger will include a front-end scripting environment known as "Automator." Longhorn will include a new scripting shell (currently in beta test) known as "Monad."
Built-in RSS support: Tiger will embed an RSS aggregator into the Safari browser. Longhorn will include an embedded RSS feature in the user interface.
Info-Display Panel: Tiger will have an information-display capability called "Dashboard." Longhorn will have an information-display panel called "Sideshow," to which users can "pin" collections of items of interest.
Integrated Instant Messaging/Video Chat: Tiger will feature a souped-up version of iChat. Microsoft will embed Windows Messenger (a sister to MSN Messenger), which also will likely feature video-chat.
64-Bit Support: Tiger will include extended 64-bit capabilities. Longhorn allegedly will be optimized for 64-bit systems.
As many an Apple advocate has pointed out, Tiger is set to debut at least a year before Longhorn. That's a pretty significant head start, especially for folks who have no corporate edicts, application constraints or other limitations on which hardware/software platform they choose.
Nazi Pope Emblem
"More shameless... ...pointing fingers..."
I foresee a new name coming out of Microsoft headquarters in about a month and a half when OS X wows its first users.
But microsoft has a larger customer base to consider when releasing product. If M$ had a customer base as small as Apple's, I'm sure they'd be able to put out new releases every six months as well.
Welcome to 1982-1984.
should be renamed to something of the likes of
Apple Fanboys vs Microsft Buddies
or something of the likes, it should be good, off to get some popcorn
Ever try to copy something on a Mac? Grab a cup of coffee and a few magazines, because you'll be there a while.
the paper must be stuck in the copier, hence the delays :)
both OSX and Longhorn borrowed from operating systems like OS/2, AmigaOS, Linux (GNOME and KDE), as well as a lot of F/OSS projects out there that did basically the same things.
In fact, both Apple and Microsoft copied from Xerox's PARC to get the GUI in the first place. Before Apple or Microsoft saw the Xerox PARC demonstrations they were using text based menus, and the Macintosh project resembled more like the Cannon Cat with leap keys.
There are no innovations today in commercial software, the F/OSS projects led the way, but before they can patent something, a commercial company comes along and patents the same thing and claims it as their own. Without F/OSS projects there would be no OSX, and no Longhorn.
I think that this is a lot of hot air. Apple is so far ahead of anything anyone else in the techn sector that someone copying them is only natural.
Even with the amount of development power available to Microsoft, they have never been able to catch up to Apple, the industry leader. This is not to say that Microsoft is somehow bound by their develpment skill, but rather their creativity.
Apple, in contrast to Microsoft, has taken the bold step of basing their operating system on Unix, which allows them to tap into the vast stores of development resources latent in the IBM/Solaris camps. Microsoft, unyielding, relies on their own developers who are slowly (but rapidly gaining speed) migrating to the more stable Unix-based systems.
I love Steve Jobs, but I think he's a little paranoid here. Losers always copy the winners. It'd be better to take comfort in the comfortable lead that Apple's got, rather than complain about parrots.
I believe it was Voltaire who said that imitation was the sincerest form of flattery.
I just finished reading Revolution in the Valley. One of my favorite quotes from the book is when Jobs confronts Bill about copying the Mac, and Bill says, "No, Steve, I think its more like we both have a rich neighbor named Xerox, and you broke in to steal the TV set, and you found out I'd been there first, and you said. "Hey that's no fair! I wanted to steal the TV set!"
the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
It must be copying? These are some pretty serious allegations from mister Jobs and he'd better watch his lips or the Microsoft Lawyer army will have fun with slander.
That's how the flowdown goes. Let's not throw stones in glass houses here, folks.
Linux and most OSS software is not exactly an innovator in any sense, it's mostly just a reimplementation of proprietary software already in existence.
But anyways, isn't all progress built on the success of others? Why should we deride Microsoft for implementing things that are good?
New icons in Longhorn will more match those in OS X too. It's only a matter of time before somebody creates a reliable emulator so OS X will run on PCs. http://www.severdia.com http://www.rontheactor.com
http://www.kontentdesign.com/
Dashboard is a Konfabulator clone.
Click here to give me 1/250th of an Opera license!
He claimed 'They are shamelessly copying us',
And killing you in the market. Still. More focus on winning on less on being beaten please.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
We all know Apple invented the TabletPC, Media Center PC, PocketPC, XBox, ...
They licensed the GUI and the mouse from Xerox. Stop getting your knowledge "out of the air" and look it up. Xerox was paid a significant amount for them, including apple stock.
Bought cheap, yes, but paid for.
Yes. Because steal is definitely the same as license and pay for, and in 2005, everything is exactly the same as it was in 1982.
Oh wait. It isn't? It's not? Well then I guess it's not hypocritical.
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
Longhorn does copy some features of Tiger. Even their "It Just Works" mantra is ripped from OS X Switch campaign that Apple launched years ago. One of the main criticisms I had with Gates and Co is that for years they tout all these "innovations" that Windows brings but in reality many of the innovations were either copied or bought from others.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
If by steal you mean legally came to an agreement with xerox. Then yes.
Search: `locate`, even find but I think what theyre talking about is more locate-like.
Scripting: bash, perl, python.
Built-in RSS Support: Firefox.
Info-Display Panel: gdesklets and wm-apps come to mind, or gkrellm.
Integrated Instant Messaging/Video Chat: Alright, I'll give them this one. Though gaim is coming along and skype has video now I believe.
64-Bit Support: They act like this is new.
(\_/)
(O.o) This is Bunny. Add Bunny to your signature
(> <) to help him achieve world domination.
I always thought the etch-a-sketch pre-dated both concepts. It doesn't use a mouse, but it does use rotating knobs to control the graphical display with a "cursor".
All progress is made from bits and pieces of previous experience which lead up to current progress. That's why there's never any giant leaps, that's why we didn't have some guy 10 years ago miraculously come up with a 3ghz processor. It's why we didn't have rock and roll in the 1600s. All past innovation leads up to current achievements.
Pointing fingers and complaining about who's copying who is not only non-productive but it is the same mindset which leads to all this IP mess that we're currently in.
So to you Mr.Jobs, get off your high horse. They didn't copy the wheel just because your latest car has one. It took that wheel to get you there, do not disrespect that wheel.
I'm not trying to defend microsoft or apple. I hate everything equally.
If you don't want someone to copy something, don't give it to anyone.
And I hear with Tiger, you'll be able to format a floppy disc, and browse the web, at the same time!
Does anyone else rememember when Apple used a similar phrase in their advertising, long after Windows had pre-emtive multitasking? My guess is: probably not.
This calls for a completely off topic but intelligent thread to be started. How about this one:
Casemodded mac mini doubles it's disk performance
This guy case modded his mac mini putting into an old centris pizza-box. The faster disks and CD boosted performance 20% to 70% on AV things like DVD-copy and CD-to-AIFF and file copying. Overall Xbench-disk gives the set up a 2x performance enhancement.
so the new Official discussion topics are:
1) wow cool retro case mod for $10
2) Did apple cripple the mini just to make it cool?
And is that bad really. After all it is quiet and welcome in the living room something many people would pay a LOT for. Performance is not all.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
"Redmond, start your photocopiers" [coral]
The only solution to such rampant disregard for originality is obvious: we need stronger intellectual property laws and more protection for software patents. Obviously, the current laws provide no incentive for Microsoft to innovate at all, and therefore we must protect Apple's ideas and creations by giving them a guaranteed mononpoly for a limited time - perhaps as long as 70 years - to force competitors to develop new and alterantive solutions.
/sarcasm tag.
Oh, I almost forgot to close my
Even more telling is that Windows XP went on sale three years ago, while the next version of Mac OS X, Tiger, will not go on sale until later this year.
The arguement that their next Operating System update is coming out first, is not relevent as to who is copying what from who. They've both had dozens of OSes released in the last twenty years, so the release schedule of the next few seems completely beside the point.
--
RumorsDaily
Isn't Apple Microsoft's market research department?
Deleted
If you write a program, either OS or application, right the first time, you don't need to fix it.
Besides bouts of versionitis, if you have something that is reliable and does what you want it how often do you change it? How often do you change your TV or telephone?
Fight Spammers!
Ah, c'mon. And the Wright brothers stole the idea of wings from nature, and Edison stole the idea of light from generations of candlemakers, and Ford stole the idea of the assembly line from packinghouses in Chicago...
In almost all innovation, the genius isn't in the product or process itself. It's in the application of innovation to do things right. And it's on this count, the most important in my opinion, that the Wright brothers, Edison, Ford--and, yes, Apple--are genuinely innovative.
didn't apple steal the whole idea of the graphical interface and the mouse from xerox?
No, Apple licensed it from Xerox. So did Microsoft, for that matter.
Indeed, like how Microsoft stole the two-button mouse from Apple!
As all the other people replied, Apple paid to use ideas that Xerox did not want to use themselves. +5 insightful is a joke.
Tiger will be out in less than a week. Oh wait, you are correct, it will take them that long to copy the X ;-)
2 1214&tid=201&tid=109&tid=190&tid=218)
Perhaps when they announce their 64-bit Windows Monday (tomorrow) they'll change the name (see http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/24/12
If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today...The solution is patenting as much as we can. A future startup with no patents of its own will be forced to pay whatever price the giants choose to impose. That price might be high. Established companies have an interest in excluding future competitors.
It is paranoia when they are really out to get you. Microsoft copied the Mac interface, but Microsoft also stole Stacker and included that as part of DOS 6 as drivespace.
Fight Spammers!
AMEN!!! Mod up this thread. Boycott the moron slashdot editors choice.
While I understand Jobs' compliants and squabbling he has to keep on pushing. What he has been able to accomplish with Apple is remarkable. Steve Jobs has the foresight to move ahead and come out with new innovative products. In just about every market you're going to have somebody nipping at your heals to try to beat you to the punch. It just so happens the market leader is stealing from the secondary leader this time.
Microsoft has their own set of problems to worry about and I think both operating systems have their own segments in the world today. Really though as of lately I think a lot of people are switching to a Mac. I have friends who have been Windows fans who are fed up with the licensing, security etc etc and have decided to move to the MacOS.
Moreover, I see the problem being were each OS fits into the world. The MacOS always seems to stay with the education systems, graphic arts people, designers, editing and hardcore Mac addicts; while Windows hits up everybody else.
Apple needs to rev up it's marketing and start hitting other users. Eg. Corporate users
I say we just grow up, be adults and die.
But why quibble?
When they're talking about search, they're talking about Spotlight, which is metadata search. Locate is simple path search. Granted, find has some metadata capabilities, but nothing that compares to Spotlight.
Regarding scripting, Automator is a GUI front end to AppleScript that allows one to represent a script as a number of steps intead of actually writing the script.
The others you mentioned are pretty much right, though.
Yawn.
Ugh. Does everyone still belive that steaming load? No. Apple didn't steal the interface from Xerox. The actually gave Xerox millions of dollars of Apple stock to bring programmers through so they could get a look at what Xerox was doing. Xerox agreed to this. And why wouldn't they? PARC was in the idea game. They didn't make commercial products. Really. Go look it up. Wiki and Google are your buddies. I promise. Go now. Check for yourself.
Don't get angry, just get informed.
FYI - This was written from a PC, before you go and flag me as a fanboi...
Apple haven't "won" since 1986, I don't think he's really in a position to comment.
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
I'm no Microsofty. But this is playing the "OS warfare" card just a little too hard don't you think?
-cvst
Those of us not born yesterday remember Bill Gates vaporware announcement of "Windows" soon after the original Mac came out. The first usable version of Windows was version 3.1 released in 1993, nine years after the original Mac OS. Windows was a shameless imitation of the Mac OS (both copied Xerox OS). MicroSoft had a year headstart in working with the MacOS because it wrot important Apps like Multiplan.
Which is why the apple market has very little to do with the Windows market. You can't run Windows on the apple hardware (in general) and you can't run OSX on generic PC hardware. So the operating systems have eerilly similar features. Microsoft isn't threatening Apple's marketshare. If you've got apple, you know if you like it, and chances are slim you'll switch back based soley on the reason Microsoft comes out with new features. And vice vera. I know I won't switch to Apple just because their instant messanging software is new and improved. Completely different markets. Its almost the difference between Nissan the Carmaker and Nissan.com
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
The same old search like in 98se that I'm using but with the addition of handling compressed/proprietary formats. That's useful/good but not revolutionary, it's just no one has done the grunt work to do the integrating.
Not surprised my (true) comment got modded down by the zealots mods on this site.
Agreed. It apparently okay to copy if you are going to release the product for free.
It's like saying it is okay to cheat as long as you also share your answers with everyone else.
Apple is #1 in the HD-based mp3 player market and fast becoming #1 in the flash-based mp3 player market in the US. (They're #1 in Japan and I suspect many other countries too.) They are also #1 in the online mp3 sales market worldwide.
So . . . would you care to rephrase that, laddie?
...which steals liberally from Opera's UI research and development.
Then how do you explain this quote from The New York Times?:
"In the suit, filed last Thursday, Xerox accused Apple of unlawfully using, in two of its computers, copyrighted Xerox software that controls desktop computers. Xerox also argues that Apple has undermined Xerox's ability to license its own software widely by suing two other companies marketing similar software."
The suit was eventually thrown out and perhaps Apple bought a license later, but it's clear that Xerox believed their interface had been stolen.
By the way, in those days it was often assumed that copyright covered not only source code, but "look and feel" as well.
Licensing is irrelevant, Apple didn't come up with the idea, which is the the essence of what Steve is arguing; that Apple creates and Microsoft copies. Uh-uh, Xerox created, Apple & Microsoft copied.
"Hello, Pot? It's kettle. Guess what. You're black!"
Anonymous Cowards generally receive no replies because you're a coward and I'm a bitch
I don't think this deserves being modded troll. Maybe you don't agree with it, but this post is short and makes a reasonable point. Whoever modded it as troll should really defend his or her reason for doing that.
Peace, or Not?
http://tinyurl.com/9r62k/
That is a link to the 10.4 initial setup video...
This "look and feel" theory that Xerox tried to use on Apple was exactly the same theory that Apple used to sue MS.
Apple didn't come up with the idea, which is the spirit of what Steve is arguing; that Apple creates and Microsoft just copies. Xerox did the creating. I'm sure that pisses off you apple zealots to no end but tough noodles:)
Is this more of a result of Tiger being first to market? Most of those things listed have already been in both OS's for a long time, save for 64-bit support. Head start or not, there's still a significant cost to change platforms between Microsoft and Apple and I'm not just talking about the often-complained-about price of Apple systems. There's learning curves to deal with, support when things go wrong (Yes, I know it's hard news to take, OS X isn't perfect) and more.
I'm interested in seeing what Microsoft ends up with after the time spent on Longhorn. Microsoft touted Longhorn to be the biggest jump in operability since Windows 95. Nobody can deny that Longhorn will be a bigger jump than Tiger will be to Apple fanboys. I just hope Apple fanboys will get off the "Microsoft is copying us" chip on their shoulder and interpret whatever they feel Microsoft copies from them as endorsements for their first decisions.
Redmond, Start your Xerox Machines. then thought the Xerox bit was a tad close to home and changed it to "photcopier"? or were they just blissfully unaware of the Irony?
I've had thousands of shits in the last twenty years, so my release schedule over the next few seems completely beside the point.
Hmm, I wonder if constipation is relevant?
Seriously, someone wrote "64 bit support"? Is that legit? So, innovation is supporting the new hardware? That's absurd. So, is Apple copying Dell by offering compatibility with the latest video card or whatever?
Stoooooopid.
Most of these other things are built into an average Linux distro. Additionally, if you buy a Dell, many of them are just as present, as OEM addons.
Look, I'm sure Microsoft *is* copying Apple where they can. They always have, for my entire life. But the list of crap they are moaning about is ridiculous.
Present day: "We want better security in Windows! Why can't it have something like UNIX's security model?"
10 years later: "Those bastards! They copied/snarfed/stole the UNIX security model!"
This is probably what will happen too. People will scream for something to be added to/changed in windows, and then Microsoft will get bad mouthed for implementing it.
I have no sympathy for Steve Jobs, or people who agree with his baseless argument. Lest we forget, the *base* of the *entire* OS X operating system is a BSD core, something Apple didn't invent or innovate in to existance.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
While it's not Embedding in the usual sense fo the word, it basically is a proof how the mac mini formfactor encourages embedding. A previous Slashdot story referred to IBM's paper on the uses of the Mac Mini as both an embedded device and as it's own development platform. This story shows how the form factor slides easily into a modest 2U industrial model suited for rack mount width or as a kiosk. One could easily treat these like OEM parts.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Xerox created; Apple and Microsoft lifted the idea.
Irregardless of how they aquired it, one thing is for sure: Apple didn't create it and Microsoft steal "their" creation, which is what Steve likes to argue. Now try your semantics game mr. apple zealot:)
Although this comment would have been taken with much less salt with the release of win3.1 (where the only real change is the name from Trash Can to Recyle Bin) I still find myself agreeing with Mr. Jobs.
Corporate America is all becoming the same flavor as reality television
(From the simpsons) "And by created the show I mean: saw on Dutch television and tweaked the title."
Don't you just love technology / want to smear it all over your body
... is such a tool.
He makes Darl look like an alter boy.
I'm not sure why Apple often gets the wrath on SlashDot from the Linux community. My only explanation is that Linux users are more often than not also Windows users. They dual boot. They have other PCs laying around running Windows. Why not use MacOS X and be able to run mainstream apps and have a unix core without dual booting? Why not run Yellow Dog Linux and truly thumb your nose at the MS/Intel duopoly? Apple is is the same boat as Linux. Trying to tell the world that they have a viable OS platform other than Windows. Apple is succeeding and putting a unix machine on millions of desktops. Be Happy!
This looks better to me. But gnome always get things mess.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
...was the innovative fast user switching. Apple was so far ahead of the game with this one. What's that you say? Windows had this one first and OSX copied that? Surely you jest. What about alt-tab application switching with the display of the application icon middle of the screen? Apple may have had that one first. No? My god, what's this world coming to. Now, I know Spotlight is original and no one has been able to implement desktop search capabilities in real-time. Hold on a second, you're telling me MSN has an integrated tool which indexes and searches my entire desktop, including e-mail and file contents?
Sure, these tools may not have the polish Apple puts on them but the tools are there none the less and have been there for quite some time. I'm sure if you look deeper you'll notice other things like core video behaving very much like Microsoft's GDI+, albeit a bit more advanced since it's a lot newer. Apple's Dock was a similar nod to the popularity of the taskbar in Windows though Apple failed to develop a better solution her (it did look purty though didn't it with its genie effects and poofs; sort of a slight of hand, "we know the dock doesn't work but look at the cool effects we can make to divert your attention away from this").
I'm perfectly happy with Linux over here in the quiet corner... I'm just putting the finishing touches to this nice Enlightenment 17 I've installed... hmmm very nice...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
And didn't they establish then, that the whole damn lot of them "stole" the idea from Xerox.
The Apple GUI was derived from Xerox's original idea and by some of the Xerox team who defected. Meanwhile, we got GSX/GEM when yet another team member broke away from Xerox, and if memory serves Apple did battle with Gem over IP issues.
It could be argued (I stand to be corrected), that Windows was the only GUI not led by, or written by someone from Xerox...
Incidentally, Jobs started his "IT" career selling Wozniak's blue boxes designed to allow free lobg distance phone calls...
Here endeth the history lesson...
EVERY industry has people copying off of one another. Why do you think cars and TVs and homes look so similure? Did you really think that it was just a common logical progression? Please. This isn't news. This is another lame attempt to bash MS and nothing more. Frankly it's getting pretty old.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
It was done to Billy, well one good turn deserves another. Esp. for this jerk.
Microsoft just takes longer to get the product out the door, they have to support heterogeneous machines and work with their bloated, bug-ridden codebase, it takes them a little longer than Apple who starts with OSS and then does whatever they can to slap the patented Mac GUI on it so that it looks & acts like the macos of old.
There was an implicit quid-pro-quo between Apple and Xerox. Xerox got to invest (pre-IPO) in Apple in exchange for the PARC tours and demos.
Read my previous post here for more info. The link in that post has since died, but there's more info on the deal here. Search for the text "open the kimono" on that page and start reading from the paragraph above it.
~Philly
In terms of search and who got there first. Well Suse 9.3 includes the MONO based "Beagle" desktop search. While Apple and Microsoft were busy playing video games and listening to music, Novell was busy getting something out the door before anybody else. I guess you can call Novell/Suse the true 31337 in this game.
Microsoft may be copying Apple, but what does it matter? As long as you sell more units then you would have otherwise, it basically makes it the right plan.
Does anyone really think that a company that eveyone beleives to use uncompetitive monopolistic tactics would balk at the shame of copying a competitor?
END COMMUNICATION
Look who the audience is, its not the geeks, its the shareholders or wanabee ones. He wants his stock to rise as its been flat recently.
Guess all those pension funds are exiting faster than finding new suckers.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
This comment was directed to a shareholder. This is nothing more than statements to fuel those backing Apple. Jobs wasn't complaining at all in his comments, in fact, he was boasting about Apples progress in direct comparison to M$... Good for him, I seem to recall Bill doing the same in the past. On another note. The creation and evolution (or copying if you feel this way) of different company innovations does nothing more than benefit consumers.
He is sharp. Notice how he picked right up on that. The man is good.
Insert witty sig here.
He may have a point. However look at all the discussion a sentence generated.
Anyway at least Apple hasn't copy the blue screen of deaths that seem to plague every other "new technology" conference that Microsoft demos at. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A560 96-2005Jan7.html
Info Display Panel: = karamba/gdesklets
who is copying who
Bashing the current pope for being the member of Hitlerjugend in his time (which was complementary btw and he risked a death sentence to still quit) would be similar to bashing people in the USA for getting "education" in primary schools 80 years from now on (in the sense of being complimentary, not that it resembles 1930's german education).
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
The pissing about licensing is arguing semantics to be contrary bullshit. Both Apple and Microsoft licensed from Xerox. Oh, why do I bother? Keep snorting those lines off of Steves butt crack if you wish.
Oh, I almost forgot to close my /sarcasm tag.
...
That would suck. Then the whole rest of this page would be sarcastic too
Yeah, close call.
Because the difference between the CPUs, it is hard to simulate PowerPC on PC infrastructure.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
ALLRIGHT THATS IT! Im going to squash this right now! IM the one thats been "shamelessly copying" EVERYONES software! There,now you can all quit your bitch!n and moaning,and get on with life.Just blame me for all of it from now on,ok? Thanks,now go away.
"Did they look like psychos to you,do psychos EXPLODE when sunlite hits them!?"-"Seth Gecko" (George Clooney)
Funny when you know that most of 'good' Apple applications/framework are not from Apple but NeXT/OPENSTEP
; ... ......
...
( wich is owned by Jobs too )
- Interface Builder ( NeXT )
- Mail ( NeXT );
- Keynote : Concurrence ( Lighthouse );
- Page : OpenWrite ( LightHouse );
- Darwin
Most of MacOSX apps/frameworks have more than 10 years old
... some blind kids did. John Draper (Captain Crunch) shared this design with Woz. Woz made boxes to sell to students to get money for building computers.....
the "innovation" started waaaaaay back.
Just as long as it makes the computing environment better, I'm not sure it really matters.
That was a funny post, you truly gave me laugh with that one. For your information, MS licensed off Apple and not Xerox btw.
Jonathanjk.com
When you innovate like Apple does its part of the territory. I'm surprised that Jobs didn't talk about open source which borrows practically everything from other projects.
There are plenty of things Apple has "copied" from various OSes including Windows. How about the rumored two-button mouse Apple is working on--an independent innovation? Anybody remember the piss-poor supposed multi-tasking of OS9 and earlier? When decent multitasking finally appeared in OSX via its BSD base, all of a sudden many Mac folks who thought they actually had decent multi-tasking earlier on finally realized what it actually was. Here's a kicker--let's develop a tiny music player that doesn't have room for buttons nor an LCD screen, and we'll give it "shuffle" ability to play the songs in random order. Holy cow, Batman, similar "shuffle" or "random mix" ability has been present since the earliest CD players... Just because Apple comes out with a product does not mean it is innovative. Steve Jobs can declare all he wants that MS is copying Apple, but again, Apple has done plenty of copying itself.
The mini mate seems like a good idea badly executed. It's claiming not to be just a fire wire disk but also port exapnader. Yet it only comes with 3 usb ports and 3 firewire 400 ports. After you jack this into the computer itself you lose one of each of those. So it's a glofied "2-1" T-splitter not really what one would call a hub or port expander. The dumb thing about this was there is plenty of real-estate on the mini mate to put more jacks, moreover thet missed the most obvious location: on the front of the box.
imagine a world with one OS vendor and it being a closed system at that. we'd all be discussing the latest app written in basic and lamenting the lack of any storage larger than a 90 minute cassette tape.
i for one like the competition and don't give a rat's ass as to who put put in a supercharger or added spinners first. just look at all the mana drifting our way and at prices that a single vendor would never allow.
the 'stuff' engine is driven by competition, not only for the $ but ego as well.
so, rather than upsetting oneself over hats dejour, be creative. fan the flames of ego amongst these corporate size 12 skulls and even more cargo will descend from the heavens.
Sample material:
Hey SJ, have you heard BG's gonna bundle a child safe orgasmatron with portholes 2010?
Hey BG, have you heard the newest Mac is gonna be a child safe ROBOT that can cook, make beds, mow lawns, suckle your children, and has looks and other 'features' that will have the neighbors stacking orgasmatrons for a bonfire come next full moon.
Microsoft is copying, and in a really broad sense, Windows sucks.
See, thing is, I have a PC. I do have other options, but your OS isn't one of them. And no I don't have over a thousand extra just lying around to spend on your option.
So go away. You're annoying me.
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
The Apple II display system was designed by Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak. Apple was granted patents for the technology, since expired. When Microsoft introduced its ClearType technology, it was presented as a new invention. It is unclear whether Microsoft accidentally and independently rediscovered subpixel rendering, or whether they were aware of its roots.
In May 2001, Microsoft received patents for some of ClearType. However, some people, for example Steve Gibson, suggest that the patent would not be enforceable, due to the existence of prior art, from Apple and other companies that explored and optimized subpixel rendering. Despite this, Microsoft runs an IP licensing program for ClearType, which was started in December, 2003. It is unclear if Apple has licensed Microsoft's ClearType patents, but according to John Kheit, they may hold rights to them as part of the cross-licensing and investment agreement in 1997.
Despite the apologists claims, it's not that innovation doesn't occur in a vacuum, but that MS consistently claims these innovations as their own 'sui generis' inventions.
MS product development is like a boy band record producer, trying to synthesize something that approximates the real experience--it may have drums and guitar and bass, but it just don't rock!
"If your wish to make an apple pie truly from scratch, you must first invent the universe."
I think it should be emphasized that this statement was made a a stock holders meeting, as the representative Jobs needs to sound proactive and "on the ball" while I think MS does have the Apple photocopiers out, remember Steve was saying this in response and to reassure share holders that Apple is ahead of the curve.
As for his army service. Service was compulsory, deserters were shot. Not to mention the fact that his country, as poorly ideologically driven as it was, was being invaded by the time he joined and he could hardly be expected to not join, and it's not like he joined the SS or flew bombing raids over Britain or Russia. He simply shot down planes bombing his home country, a fairly understandable action even if Satan was your Fuhrer.
Personally, I feel sad for his experience and hope that I never never have to live in a situation like he endured. I couldn't possibly comprehend what it would be like to have my country filled with such horrific doctrine and have this ideology so pervasive that I would be forced to emulate it, or die a horrific death as a traitor to my country. I don't think many people other than those who lived in the Third Reich could comprehend it either.
I'm not a catholic or anything, but I think it's shameful that anyone could spread such libelous, ignorant crap about some poor dude who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you want to insult the Pope, go right ahead. But how about saying something about some of his controversial politics and his actions as a grown man. Here's a nice list.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Windows fans who are fed up with the licensing
Forgive me but it generally appears that Apple is much more extreme than MS in regards to licensing. Microsoft might have a closed mind about their software licenses but, Apple is extreme and paranoid. Granted, I think they both suck.
As for the most remarkable thing Jobs has done... I'd say its keeping Apple out of bankruptcy while still making crappy business decisions and treating his customers and fans like crap.
If Apple had some decent management (not even great, just decent) they would knock MS down to 30% market share. They have great developers and designers. They have a solid fanatical customer base. They have a reputation for good hardware. But, instead of doing something useful, they whine and sue. They put out commercials that say get an Apple, its designed to be so easy a moron can use it, basically insulting a potential customer before they chose to buy.
They did a decent job with the iPod but, they don't even understand WHY they succeeded with it. It didn't succeed because of the interface or its capabilities. It succeeded because it looked good and was expensive (but, not too expensive). It became what the kids now call bling bling.
People don't want to buy something thats marketed as *easy to use*. Because if they do, they will worry that their friends will see it and think, "oh, he's not smart enough for the other brand". Look at tools and hardware, the best selling products are labeled "professional", "contractor grade". If you market a computer as "for Professionals only" or "Expert System" people will line up to buy, especially when they aren't really at that level. They just want people to think they are. Look at the Linux phenomena. More people *use* linux than have installed it, because they think it makes them look smart.
So, if Apple really wants a big market they should STOP telling people how easy their computer is. Let people find out. They should focus on the professionals who use the system. Make it have a "professional" conotation. Forget "ease of use". If yahoo's buy the computer because of image, and then find it easy to use, they'll become a big supporter because they will feel *smart* (hey look, I use a professional system).
The other obvious problem with their marketing is mixing "ease of use" with a bigger price tag.
If you go to Sears and look at drills, you expect the easier to use ones to cost less. You expect the expert quality one to be more expensive.
So, Apple in their wisdom says look, "its easy". The consumer hears "toy", then they see a big price tag. Then they see the computer they use at work and a small price tag. Big surprise what comes next.
Apple should say, its the best (not easiest to use), and its used by professionals (and point some out), then follow this with that the corporate desktop was chosen by PHB's (their boss is a PHB), to be used by morons (what their bosses think of them). This makes a higher price into a selling point. "Of course it costs more, its for professionals". They'll look down upon their windows friends, "Have you seen Mary Janes computer? Windows? She must have bought that at the dollar store. hahaha".
They could just get a mantra in peoples heads "Big dumb corporations use X, dumb people use X. Professionals use Y. Smart people use Y."
Lets face it, real professionals look at what is really the best and ignore marketing, thus use Linux. The non-conformist wannabees and the unskilled professional wannabees will pick a non-mainstream computer thats easy to use (currently an Apple). The rest (~90%) of the population just want to feel good about themselves.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
Unfortunately not freely available on Wall Street Journals web, but anybody else saw the story that Apple was paying the technology editor of NBC 15.000 USD per Apple product he talked positive about?
Agreed. It apparently okay to copy if you are going to release the product for free.
It's like saying it is okay to cheat as long as you also share your answers with everyone else.
No, I think a better analogy would be that it's okay to cheat as long as the test isn't for credit. In this case "credit" would represent "money."
" We all know Apple invented the TabletPC, Media Center PC, PocketPC, XBox, ..."
They all suck.
Yes we all know Apple would never copy a UI or interface device since they came up with it on their own. Or they wouldn't wait and see where the market was going with say mp3 players.
Yes we all know they are a market leader/developer/driver with their 6% est market share.
Tune in for the next macworld to see Steve stick his finger in the air to tell them where the company will be heading next.
One of the new features in Tiger is support for Access Control Lists (ACL). Microsoft have had that for how long? At least since Windows NT 4.
So, stop the press. Apple is copying Microsoft, and they are behind by more than 8 years.
My advice to Steve Jobs: "Grow up".
The more I think aboit it, the more I can't think of anything that apple has ever really contributed. Yes, they do spearhead some new technology, (Gui, firewire, zeroconf, etc) but they are re-engineered, polished existing technology. What have they ever done that wasn't a copy of what someone else has done? Do they even have an R&D dept?
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
Being able to copy from other people should also considered an art.
You could create something innovative or improve upon the existing technology by copying from others' work
buffering...
He who makes it first, gets the credit. He who gets it second, makes the money.
I'm sure they both have "Insiders" that they get information from about the other company. So this would make it more difficult to see who is copying who as one can easily trump the other just by making a public annoucement or leak before the other has a chance to do the same. Whether they have actually begun development or not.
As Apple supporters point out Tiger is scheduled to debut first, while pointing fingers they ignore developement dates.
Many of these 'copied' features have been promised by Microsoft since Windows XP (2001), however Tiger has only been worked on since Panther(late 2003).
So, who's copying whom?
"Good artists copy, great artists steal."
- Steve Jobs, paraphrasing Picasso
What's more boring than a slashdot article on sundays...
...that Windows NT had symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) and pre-emptive multitasking way back in 1995, which the Mac didn't have until the first release of OSX over 6 years later... ...Or that OS 10.4 is an upgrade, not a completely new OS (unlike Longhorn), so his comparison is more than a little off.
I use a Mac, and I'll be first in line to get Tiger, but jeez, these OS pissing contests are getting old.
stupid lameness filter ugh.
"...Microsoft Is Shamelessly Copying."
Well.. DUH! That's all they've been doing for quite a while. Seems to be their definition of "innovation".
Apple first stuck that into MacOS in 8.5, and it was dandy. It's Been There awhile, and reached its current incarantation with 10.3. While Windows is the obvious precursor, Apple has polished the feature and improved the hell out of it. For example, a quick one-two of the buttons will flip between the current app and the previously focused app, whereas holding the buttons down will bring up the full menu and allow you to tab through - while that menu is up, you can also mouse to the desired app.
Apple has "borrowed" a number of FEEJURS from MS, but they've improved them in the process- alt-tabe is an example.... while simultaneously ignoring a few things they SHOULD be adding - for example, when I'm in a directory, why the hell do I care how much free space I have on disk? Why can't I know the size of the directory without resorting to Get Info or a du -h on the command line? Why isn't the ability to list directories-then-files or files-then-directories at least an option (the 10.3 Finder is notoriously defficient compared to previous incarnations but STILL).
Anyway.
Apple takes a few decent ideas Microsoft either First To Markets or rips from elsewhere (OS/2, etc), polishes them, improves them, and integrates them. Microsoft takes all the pretty stuff from Apple, implements it in a fashion that proves they don't understand what makes it good in the first place, does a shit job of making it functional, and sticks everyone with it... in gui terms, a bit like the retarded younger cousin who loudly emulates the behaviour of his grown-up relatives.
Oh, and the Dock isn't a "nod" to the taskbar. It's a reimplimentation of the NeXT dock.- the taskbar itself is a Win32ized implimentation of similar docks / widget bins from CDE, OS/2, NeXT, etc. And NeXT beat Win32 to market by how many years? Apple didn't so much fail to develop a better solution as a refuse to - to my understanding, the persistance of the Dock is very much a Steve/NeXT thing... and you know what bastards people can be when they Know They're Right (regardless of rather they actually are or not). Apple users are stuck with the damned thing- most of the users I know use Quicksilver ( http://quicksilver.blacktree.com/ ) to achieve similar functionality with (GASP!) customizeability and none of the retardedness.
I don't know if someone has mentioned it already, but Microsoft announced Longhorn, WinFS* and it's search capabilities years before Tiger came out. And as a matter of fact, Google's Desktop Search uses similar technique as the proposed system in Longhorn by creating a db of files and their content, and now this feature is available in multiple browser toolbars, like the one from MSN. Therefore, Apple just took the oppurtunity to add this existing feature to their OS. Booha!
So apparenrently copying in this respect is the other way around, atleast in essense.
*WinFS is not going to be shipped with Longhorn, but the search capabilities are still going to be there.
Mozilla stole tabs from NetCaptor. So what? Right?
Cat vs. Cattle, what a choice:-).
But M$ is truly shameless:
"Most telling, Jobs said is that Tiger, the next version of Mac OS X, will go on sale later this month, while Longhorn is still more than a year away."
And I recall that at one time Tiger was more than a year away!
When o when will it end? Will the titanic stuggle between the cat and the cow leave us with nothing but an arctic hotspring surronded by Penguins?
I agree. Apple just refines, repackages and up-markets ideas. They add the veneer that makes an MP3 a "hot" item. They aren't really any more innovative than many tech companies out there.
Maybe the IT industry will have to take action against companies that name their products 'Operating Systems' when they are no longer able to manage the system, but are very good at drawing a picture.
I blame Xerox for all the crap we as end users now have to put up with in the name of 'THE OPERATING SYSTEM'.
Didn`t see anything in the parent about how the OS will manage 64 bit processing, make viruses a thing of the past, use memory more efficiently et al.
Best PR piece ever, look at all the rabid Mac fanboys foaming at the mouth and blindly sprouting nonsense about how only Apple could have come up with such "innovations!" Yet just like their other "innovations," Apple is claiming "innovation" to ideas and features that have existed else where for quite a while.
Move along here, noting to see but the Steve Jobs hype machine at work. All we have here are Mac fanboys refusing to believe that Apple isn't wrong and are trying sooo hard to convince themselves that MS is "stealing" from Apple. Plus even if you point out that these feature have existed for years, the fanboys will just go on spewing drivel about why Apple's versions is "innovative" and isn't the same.
If you are going to have a GUI based operating environment, then how the hell else are you going to present information to the user? You are going to have a screen with programs on it that you interact with text boxes and buttons. Microsoft could have called Windows "Panels" and it would have been the same effect. This is NOT innovation, this was a natual progression from CLI. To make the claim that APPLE or XEROX did anything special is farcical.
The only thing Apple did was format the presentation of the operating nature of those GUI apps via that stupid immobile menu bar at the top of the screen. Microsoft definitely didn't copy that! It was, and remains the most silly thing Apple has done. I hate it, and is still one of the reasons I refuse to buy into anything Mac.
Apple... Please remove that stupid menu bar at the top of the screen!
I guess that leaves the Yugo for M$ (gratuitous dollar sign)
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Apple is winning.
.......... kris
Four words: iPod, Apple Music Store.
"I thought I could organize freedom. How Scandinavian of me."
Mcd's spends all this money on research of where they will open a new mcd's. They look at traffic, average income of given area and all this other crap before deciding. And once they finally decide burger king opens up one right across the street.
I love it how the Mac fanboys blindly mod crap like the grandparent's up without doing any research.
In 1995 the processor with the highest clockrates were the ones used in the Cray-4 running at 1GHz.
;-)
But then you should also remark that Cray at that time didn't build computers but only very good airconditioners.
...innovation is rarely the idea. Innovation is creating somthing people can use. What is that commercial I keep seeing on TV. "We dont' make the X we make X better." Microsoft has made all of its money from creating a user platform that works. Not from innovating. Look at smart displays. Nothing more than extension of lots of innovations. But a very cool implementation.
ugh... this meme particularly irks me because it's so wrong.
/
Dashboard / Konfabulator are not copies of Desk Accessories. They're copies of SASH from IBM, which got cloned in the Linux world as SASHXB.
The common theme with all of these programs, and NOT Desk Accessories, is that they are small applications (or "applets") which are written by end-users in Javascript.
http://sash.alphaworks.ibm.com/
http://developer.gnome.org/feature/archive/sashxb
I just finished reading all the damn comments at +2 and above, and Slashdot's users are still looking like hypocritical asses. Myself included.
Apple's accepted because they used BSD in OS X, that they were using F/OSS. Now people are complaining that Apple's claiming they invented/innovated it. That they're just riding the F/OSS wave.
Make up your damn minds!
Linux is just an OS, Windows is just an OS, OS X is just an OS, Solaris is just an OS, Plan 9 is just an OS, etc.
Tiger will be out in 5 days, Longhorn will be out in a year. Review Tiger NOW, review Longhorn THEN, and compare them when they're both out. Isn't that simple?
Can't the community just objectively go over the new, or NOT new, features of each OS and evaluate without going into this fucking OS evangelism?
Answer: Apparently not.
I'll now get off my soap box and let the trolling continue. Thank you.
Elmo knows where you live!
Last time I checked, Konfabulator launched a new vm for every widget, which causes a significant reduction in perfomance. So while the idea may be similar, Dashboard is a far superior implementation. And Apple has implemented utilities on the desktop for a long time; to me Dashboard looks like a better implementation of the idea behind the Control Strip from OS 8/9.
(tig)
Ignorance and prejudice and fear
Walk hand in hand
I don't get it, what is he saying Microsoft is copying? Just everything Apple does or what?
Get me free Opera! Just one click!
I made 5 DVD coasters on Saturday, trying to burn the Visual Studio .NET 2005 beta 2 DVD from the ISO image I downloaded from MSDN, using 3 different Windows machines. Giving up, I booted the Mac mini (with superdrive option) and ran the Mac OS X Disk Utility.
Result: A perfect disc the first time.
Chip H.
I was recently helping a friend of mine shop for a new system. He had been using PCs with Windows for the longest time, and I never heard the end of the complaints about how Windows screwed this up and how Windows screwed that up. So finally, after trying to convince him for years, I helped him buy a new Mac. He had some money to spend (he's rollin' in dough) so he bought a Mac Mini with the faster processor and all the options, and got the wireless Apple keyboard. He already had a really nice Samsung display and a Logitech wireless trackball, along with a Firewire/USB hub with plenty of ports.
When he realized that he could plug in his digital camera and his digital video camera, the hard disk almost instantly filled up with stuff. So the next day, we went back to the store and picked up a Maxtor Firewire hard drive with a 250 gig capacity. He copied tons of digital photos and videos from his other computers. I introduced him to iTunes, so he just had to import all of his MP3s from two PCs, which were bursting at the seams with MP3s. The 250 gig drive filled up quite fast, so the day after that, he bought a second one; luckily there is an "available" firewire port on the Maxtor drive, so you can "daisy chain" them.
But that's not all! With the Mac Mini, the two external drives, the USB/Firewire hub, the display, keyboard, and mouse, his desk actually looked quite clean. (He's good at organizing cables.) It's amazing how much stuff fits into small boxes nowadays. So he had to go "shopping"... Picked up a new iPod, Final Cut Studio or whatever it's called, and Adobe Creative Suite for the Mac... I swear he dropped almost four grand on stuff for this Mac in a few days. This from a guy who thought Macs suck.
He was quite amazed when he found out that Final Cut is made by Apple. He knew it was a serious program, but he never thought about who made it. When I explained that Apple makes the computers, the operating system, and software that does just about every function you can dream of, he was amazed that one company can do all of these things, and do each one of them much better than any other company out there. Specifically, he was shocked and amazed that Microsoft, with thousands of times the resources that Apple has, can't even get their operating system working properly.
We came to the conclusion that the problem facing Microsoft and many other companies is simply that Microsoft is mediocre. It's an easy problem to fall into. Microsoft is simply mediocre because the quality of their work is not important to them. They are simply greedy for money. Now they'll tell you that they care, and they're working to fix the security flaws, etc., but only because they realized that those security flaws are impacting their bottom line. As long as those flaws did not affect Microsoft in any significant way, they would have continued to ignore them.
Personally, I believe that if security flaws did not impact the sales of Microsoft software at all, Microsoft would simply ignore them and not care that your data, your identity, your finances, etc., are at risk. Because they're mediocre.
Apple, on the other hand, is a first-class company. Say what you will about their stuff being more expensive, but believe me, you get what you pay for. Someone has to get paid for making true innovations. Even though some things in their OS existed in other OSes before them (Spotlight - Query in BeOS). I think they're constantly improving.
If you have the answer to this question you have the answer to the question why it DOESN'T matter if MS copies from Mac. It's on a different platform so you're comparing apples to oranges.
You may want to read a Jobs quote, in the transcripts of the "Triumph of the Nerds", part 3 Halfway through the page, Jobs talks about Picasso saying this.
Because they never copy anything.
Here is a non-reg required link to the Washington Post's coverage of this.
Wow, I thought that "teh evil M$" would only pay people to be shills, and Apple would never resort to these kinds of tactics. "M$" is the only company that uses marketing, hype, and buying people out to sell it products, not our beloved Apple!
The whole who's copying who debate is silly. It doesn't really matter, and if competitors are incorporating the best ideas from the industry, we all win, regardless of platform. There is nothing worse than the "not invented here" syndrome. But there is something worth noting with Longhorn: there doesn't seem to be any fresh thinking. The fact that we are having this debate and not one person has defended Microsoft by pointing out a feature that is totally unique and ground breaking is telling. Very telling. Not one single feature that someone can point out as unique and innovative to Microsoft for others to copy. Not a single one. And that, I think is the problem with Microsoft and their role in the industry.
Longhorn has been in development for years. Just because Apple is releasing their latest OS earlier doesn't mean they were first with an idea. They release OS updates twice as often as MS in general. There's nothing revolutionary about either Tiger or Longhorn anyway, so I'm not sure what the big deal is.
Vote for Pedro
(Microsoft being second to last.)
The cake is a pie
Who leaked you the info that we will be inventing a two button mouse, was it some M$ insider? And how dare you insult the Holy Apple and the Lord Steve Jobs!
Oh well, I will be breaking my NDA to say this but I just have to prove how innovative we at Apple can be. I will have you know that just a few years after we invent the two button mouse, we will come up with a mouse with a wheel that can easily scroll long webpages, documents, etc!
Then a few more years after that we will invent a mouse that has three or more buttons!
Don't tell Micro$oft this Apple fans, they will just end up stealing our innovative technologies yet again!
Microsoft announces, then develops.
Apple develops, then announces.
Just because Microsoft issues a press release or throws a press conference and says that the next version of Windows is going to have [feature], that doesn't mean that Apple hasn't already had [feature] under development/running in a lab somewhere for a year.
For example, the search capability in Tiger known as "Spotlight." Apple applied for a patent on the technology behind Spotlight (a patent that was granted in January of this year, BTW) when OS X 10.0* was still a year and two months away from public release. Which means they started working on it in 1999 if not sooner. Years before the name "Longhorn" was ever uttered by anyone at Microsoft.
~Philly
*OS X 10.0 release date: 3/24/2001
"Microsoft agreed to pay an unreleased sum of additional funds to quiet the allegations that it had stolen Apple's intellectual property in designing its Windows OS." - http://www.apple-history.com/frames/body.php?page= history§ion=h7
Some people believe 1-1=3 and for the sake of being politically correct, we should respect their differences
Call me when Apple allows other manufacturers to make their systems! Then we'll talk.
They wouldn't like that. Someone might beat them in terms of price and performance, Apple would actually have to do some work in order to compete, and it could threaten their hardware monopoly.
Oh wait, that did happen and Apple put a stop to it. Never mind.
What difference does it make how many companies are selling the same crap?
If they developed useful software to bundle with the OS or made alternative OSes, you'd have a point. Dell=IBM=HP=Sony. Same crap.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
So apple has squat and is gaining a little more than squat.
One big difference is that XP, out of the box, has no f-ing clue what to do with an ISO image. You need third party programs to do what can be done with the built in tools in OS X.
Here's a good link to a page that compares the two. http://www.xvsxp.com/burning/. Maybe the OP should have tried the Cdburn.exe utility the article mentions.
That's not to say that the OS X tools are complete and you don't need something else to supplement them (Toast?), but IMHO the built-in CD-RW/DVD support in XP really sucks! And many of the included iLife apps support burning media natively...
BApple invented the desktop metaphor as we know it today. Yes, they took the most basic elements of the GUI from Xerox, but there's a LOT of invention there. I'm not sure why you think Firewire wasn't new technology; it wasn't a new type of technology but it was certainly new. Same goes for the now-obselete Localtalk and ADB. There's a lot less which can be considered invention under your strict rules today than there was in 1984, but that's no surprise. Most of the basic elements are there now, as they weren't in 1984.
Please enlighten me: what peer-to-peer, hot-pluggable, high-speed peripheral bus preceeded FireWire? And please don't tell me that it's just a re-engineered, polished version of USB, because you'd be wrong.
The first time I heard the name "FireWire" was in an article in an issue of MacWEEK in '93 or '94. According to this, they started working on it even earlier than that. They just took their time and got it right, (and waited for the world to need that kind of throughput and versatility) before they put it into a computer in early 1999.
And yeah, ZeroConf is polished, existing technology. Polished, existing *Apple* technology. It's the grandson of AppleTalk networking, circa 1985.
~Philly
Apple: Microsoft is copying the features we're shipping!
Microsoft: Apple is copying the features we haven't shipped!
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Yet another reason 'steal' and 'copy' should not be synonyms.
1) Do something clever and patent it
2) Wait for Microsoft to copy it
3) Sue their asses off
4) Profit !
Go Apple !
If you hate windows messenger so much 'uninstall' it and deny the system access to the messenger folder in program files... windows doesn't like it much, but it works ;) ... a similar thing can also be done to IE, but it will always be still embeded into windows explorer :|
For when you absolutely, positively have to be able to multitask!
I wouldn't call it moaning. He is just stating facts.
Karma Schmarma
If that's a troll, I'm a cheese sandwich.
Yeah! And, you're pretty damn cluless.
Karma Schmarma
The really telling thing about /. is that each time someone spouts "Apple didn't steal it, they licensed it." its modded insightful +5, each time someone responds with the lawsuit its modded +1.
Populist groupthink at its best.
Steve Jobs: "They are shamelessly copying us." Bill Gates: "They are shamelessly copying us." Jobs: "Stop it." Gates: "Stop it." Jobs: "Supercalifragilisticexpealidocious!" Gates: "Supercalifragilisticexpealidocious!" Jobs: "Tiger!" Gates: "Longhorn!"
Steve Jobs: "They are shamelessly copying us."
Bill Gates: "They are shamelessly copying us."
Jobs: "Stop it."
Gates: "Stop it."
Jobs: "Supercalifragilisticexpealidocious!"
Gates: "Supercalifragilisticexpealidocious!"
Jobs: "Tiger!"
Gates: "Longhorn!"
Mods, if you're going to mod something "informative", please do at least a cursory google search first. Apple developed the Mac from scratch. This is well documented.
The damage that MS has done to computers as a whole has been immense.
They shamlesslly rip off apple all the time (they copied the Next OS look for windows, now they do it again for the latest mac OS) and they still make crappey, over-priced junk software that never, ever gets delivered on time!!
They have also made the ordinary person think that computers should be complex, bug ridden machines that break down all the time and need "experts" you hire, be it the local nerd or your freindly computer store geek (who wants money and people will pay this money, what choice do they have?)
Due to the nature of people, when they see vast amounts of people "working with some complex stuff", they think that they should be too!!
Just forget that the best engineered products are those that work seamlessly, its just like the paradigm that manages and buyers use to rate software, why buy an application that comes on 1-cd, when the vast buggier flashier one that comes in a BIG cool box with 5 CD's and a big manual!! (back to: I make 10 times the code you do..yeah, but it's crap/buggey code you goof!)
The advantage in having poorly desinged products is that the magazine and book industry now has a vast market for books and articles where they explain the latest way to "use and find and fix those mystery windows features add nausium..". Not to mention the influence MS has had (PC reboot problem has been attributed to MS influenced design decisions by inetl back in the 286 days) and does currently have on the hardware design industry with now what is the MS driven trusted computing initiative, where only "trusted" software and hardware can have access to the computer, sure, they say right-now that linux can still use the motherboards that have the new trusted chips, just forget using the what-are-now called the advanced features, jusst wait!!, soon you will be locked out of those too (when the trusted chips are now part of the CPU chips etc and MS has implemented virtual (multi-core cpu's) and the new virtual I/O pc motherboard concept, unless use use the latest and greatest DRM'd OS for microsoft.
AND, forget about any open bioses for PC's and laptops and any sort of messing with future video cards because of some DRM issues that hollywood and MS have about piracy.
The way technology is going, you could eventually make your own custom PC hardware someday, but all the laws about making/modifying CPU/motherboards/TV/PVR/any electronic device (net connected or not), means that we will probably be locked in to an endless cycle of buying approved hardware and software that you can't do anything hollywood and MS and your ISP etc. don't approve of..
Locate is not just for Linux. It's pretty portable. I use it on my macs.
If you want to know why spotlight will be cool, try the search feature in iTunes. Once you've experienced that, you'll see why this feature will be useful when it can be applied to files.
Since back in the 1970's when William B. Gates II bought .... its no wonder that
a little software company in N.M. to give to Billy, who
had flunked out of Havard, at least a shot at life and
hired a friend, Allen, to really run the company, given
Billy's deficencies in gray matter,
MS continues to copy from Apple. Billy is gay, you have
to realize, and this whole matter would fade away if
Steve would let William B. Gates III suck his dick and
get over it.
For the occasion, Steve might even hang a picture of
Pope Benidick on the wall for Billy to concentrate on.
Toodles!
new major versions
I was under the impression that the "10" in 10.X is the major version?
Film at 11
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that
Francis Smit
Do they mean something like Dockapps ,GDesklets, or Superkaramba? Or perhaps gKrellm?Yeah, that is new. :)
I can't afford a sig!
So what does it mean when you have a constant 3% sales rate (that is what the figure is for) yet have computers that are used roughy twice as long as PC's?
That is called total market growth my friend. Hidden but real.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...and also illustrates Microsofts biggest problem. In order for Microsoft to REALLY stop being mediocre, they too probably have to have the prospect of extinction looming, But with so much cash, how many years does that take? One decade? Two?
And in all that time, if Apple can simply resist also becoming mediocre, they will pretty much win by default. And so far three's little sign of that happening, as they still have very enthusiastic employees and more enthusatic users by the day.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That'd be true in OS X if these things were integrated in the way that Microsoft tends to integrate things (IE comes to mind). When Apple integrates something like these items, it's not usually tough to get rid of most of it.
Search: Integration here is probably good and useful, I'm thinking.
Scripting: Automator looks like a program - a GUI frontend to a GUI scripting system. Don't like it? Delete it. AppleScript support remains, but it's been there since 1995 and it's used by so many useful things that it'd be like removing perl from linux.
Built-in RSS support: It's integrated into the program (Safari) and not the OS. Delete Safari.app and it's gone. The WebKit library remains, but again it's used by many programs (among them my RSS reader and my instant messenger, and the stock Mail and Help apps). But it too can go if you like.
Info-Display Panel: Just set the activation key for Dashboard to nothing, and forget about it. It's not on screen until you hit that key, so unlike Longhorn's sidebar there's no chance of activating it with a sloppy mouse wave. (Also unlike Longhorn, each widget-type runs in its own process, as opposed to having third party code running inside explorer.exe, which just sounds like a recipe for instability.)
Integrated Instant Messaging/Video Chat: Don't like iChat? Delete it already. I did on my 10.3 install and the system hasn't cared that it isn't there.
64-Bit Support: Probably very integrated.
Not really that tough hey.
Wow, that's the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. What is particularly annoying about this is that, although Microsoft seems unable to actually ship it, Microsoft at least invests billions per year in computer science research and Microsoft research actually produce research results worth mentioning. Apple dissolved its research labs in the mid-90's and has produced almost no peer-reviewed, interesting research results since, while their marketing claims have gotten ever more inflated.
Furthermore, most of Apple's current system is copied from open source software: Mach, gcc, Safari, the command line utilities. The proprietary components, mostly the GUI and Objective-C, were bought in from the outside (NeXT) after Apple ran their own operation into the ground, and even those were based on ideas from Smalltalk.
Jobs's arrogance and distortion of the facts is just astounding. But that's nothing new: Apple tried to sue Microsoft already in the 90's and was soundly defeated when Xerox entered the lawsuit and demonstrated where all of those technologies really came from. But, I suppose, the best defense is a good offence. Still, I find Apple's lies and distortions disgusting.
But, of course, Apple's fanboys will find apologies for the company and will mod down anything that is remotely critical of the company (like this posting). I suppose, deep down, even you know I'm right and you're just afraid that your shiny boxes will disappear when people actually examine the company and its products rationally, rather than thinking of it as a status symbol and fashion item.
Search: Tiger will feature a built-in local search technology called "Spotlight" (technology built upon the search engines that Apple currently uses to search iTunes and e-mail).
Technology that Apple copied from many other commercial and research software, including commercial email programs.
Scripting:Tiger will include a front-end scripting environment known as "Automator." Longhorn will include a new scripting shell (currently in beta test) known as "Monad."
They have nothing to do with one another. With Automator, Apple is copying decades long research in visual scripting. Monad is Microsoft's hopeless attempt to improve on shell scripting with a ridiculously general and complex design. Both scripting technologies are useless, and neither is novel.
Built-in RSS support: Tiger will embed an RSS aggregator into the Safari browser. Longhorn will include an embedded RSS feature in the user interface.
And Firefox has been shipping with it built into the browser. Linux distributions have had RSS support shipping with them even longer.
Info-Display Panel: Tiger will have an information-display capability called "Dashboard.
Copied by Apple from a commercial application. Gnome and KDE have had similar technologies as well. And Apple, as usual, is trampling all over open source project names.
Integrated Instant Messaging/Video Chat: Tiger will feature a souped-up version of iChat.
Linux has been shipping with Gnome meeting, and Microsoft with Netmeeting for years.
64-Bit Support: Tiger will include extended 64-bit capabilities.
Wow, only, what, five years after Linux started shipping with 64bit support.
The only suprise is how long Apple's been in business without Microsoft buying them. I guess that Apple must be percieved as a hardware company by the boys in redmond. Or maybe it's too big of a byte to swallow?
This lets you at the internals of the applicationas data, not the just output. This is tremendously powerful.
A sample AppleScrip might be:
Set the PlayCount of the Selected Song to 0
or
Get the second word of the fifth paragraph.
Now this are off the top examples, but notice how the dictionary has defined terms with meaning, like playcount or word or paragraph.
A traditional scripting language is a toy compared to AppleScript.
And please don't flame my AppleScript syntax, it has been years...
*ahem* And to be fair, they do it better, cleaner, and before anyone, including OSS.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Preemptive multi-tasking? OS/X got that by going to BSD/Unix/Darwin. Windows got that when it went to Win32. If you only look at computers that "normal" people could buy they both stole that from the Amiga.
"Scripting:Tiger will include a front-end scripting environment known as "Automator." Longhorn will include a new scripting shell (currently in beta test) known as "Monad.""
Well the Amiga had Arexx many years ago.
Desktop search?? X1 or Google anyone?
Almost anything good will be copied and added to any OS that is still in active development. The key is who will do it better?
Sorry Steve but that is the way of the world. You will copy them and they will copy you.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
They can call me a troll, but I stick to my guns. Apple is a company of designers and engineers, not scientists. There's no shame in it, but they shouldn't pass themselves off as some group of great innovators for putting a computer in a small box or integrating the CPU into the monitor.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
Well, the argument could certainly be made that USB is little more than the Apple Desktop Bus (ADB) with hot-swapping ability and a few other modern touches added.
ADB first appeared in 1986, and it sure seems reasonable to me that Apple could have started work on FireWire in the 80s (as claimed by one of the articles I linked to in my previous post) to be an eventual ADB replacement-- only later to realize that FireWire's capabilities meant using it for keyboards and mice would be like using a bazooka to kill a fly.
~Philly
Bill Gates would never stoop to such a thing.
Why...he'd have to be crazy to do such a thing..
My God! How long must this crap be perpetrated.
XEROX DID NOT INVENT THE GUI.
SRI (then the Stanford Research Institute) invented the GUI.
SRI was where Douglas Engelbart worked. SRI was where the mouse was invented. SRI also invented the GUI, as part of their NLS project.
XEROX DID NOT INVENT THE GUI.
Xerox implemented the first commercial GUI-based systems. They failed in the marketplace, largely because Xerox failed to understand and market them.
Apple made major refinements to the GUI, including the menu bar, double clicking, click-and-drag, and the icons-objects/menus-commands relationship.
In case you're still wondering, XEROX DID NOT INVENT THE GUI.
No, there was NO "invention" at all.
Just a lot of spit and polish. A LOT of spit and polish, but the entire desktop meaphore was borrowed from earlier researches.
Namely these fine machines.
Not cheap, but at this level you have quality hardware.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.