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7-Year Old Prequel Fan On ANH
Random BedHead Ed writes "It is a subject often pondered by Star Wars fans: what is it like to watch the six films in order with a fresh perspective? From the Desk of Ghent, On one of the Star Wars blog site's many journals, answers this question in a recent blog entry about the writer's 7-year old son, who recently watched A New Hope for the very first time. Some enlightening quotes: 'Look... Obi-Wan is pretending he doesn't know R2-D2,' and 'Why don't those ships need Hyperspace rings?' It's a pity the end of Empire has been spoiled."
"'Why don't those ships need Hyperspace rings?'"M
Because they didn't even exist in the past in the future in the past. DUH.
I, for one, welcome our new 7 year old Star Wars nerd overlord.
Future past future!
How did Yoda go so senile so quickly?
You will never have the opportunity to relive the moment of truth at the end of Empire, or learn about the twins in Return of the Jedi. It will all be a foregone conclusion. Robbing a child of this opportunity is a heinous crime, given how much I enjoyed the original series given its original presentation.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
"What happened to everybody's madd light saber skillz???"
"Why are red leader and gold leader the leaders? They don't know what they're doing..."
...
A question many of us have been asking ourselves ever since *we* saw it the first time
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
Yep. R2 is truely the most Force attuned of them all. Yoda and the other Jedi may have Midichlorians, but R2 has METAL chlorians! [guitar riff!] Excellent!
Start Running Better Polls
*hic*
So, does this mean that R2-D2 is really the main character in Star Wars?
Well you could ask Lucas but I doubt he would know.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
A seven year old is more sophisticated watching his movies than George Lucas could muster while actually engaged in writing them. But then, some of us suspected as much, having been exposed to Howard the Duck.
You can enjoy a production of Hamlet
knowing that the prince goes mad. I don't think
it spoils anything to know the surprise in Empire.
I was not surprised -- not saying I saw it coming, exactly, but it was one of the possibilities that had crossed my mind. I thought it was more likely that Obi-Wan *was* Vader. That was the twist I was expecting. I had a whole argument for it and everything, back then. I was a little bummed to find out I was wrong.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
If one thing I found was that I was more bound to side with the Empire simply after seeing how inept the Republic truly was.
The new perspective gained from watching the first three puts the whole series in a new light. The Empire really became what it was simply because the Republic and Jedi had become so egocentric and inept they had to be replaced to move forward.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
When my three year old is old enough to watch the movies, I'll just show him IV through VI and skip the others. Finding out about the family relationsips, (as well as who Yoda is) is just too important, and the whole series suffers way too much. I liked episode III better than I or II, but watching Darth throw out his arms and arch his back screaming "NNNNOOOOOOOOOO" was terrible. As I left the theatre, I thought, "that is the last bit of new Star Wars I'll see. And it ended with a "NOOOOO!!!".
At what point did the Emperor decide that it was time to change Storm Troopers into a zesty new outfit and cut back on the accuracy training budget?
And when did they all get a new accent?
Am I the only one who thinks that the Star Wars movies aren't really something that a 7-year-old should be seeing? This isn't some crack about the movies' quality, I'm just thinking that some of the scenes in these movies are very dark and scary for a 7-year-old.
Alphanos
I am actually very excited for the full 6 episode dvd box set (probably HD DVD/Blu-Ray when it is released). I am going to watch them all in succession. I want to wait a while though so I can see everything like I would for the first time (I forget things easily).
There are some more links in his blog that are very interesting, especially the one that is about Uncle Owen not recognizing C-3PO.
I always read things and watch series in the order they were written, not in the order of the books. It is better to watch Star Wars this way, read the Foundation series this way, and just about anything I can think of. In this way you follow the natural creative process of the writer rather than an artificial storyline; you grow with the writer and the story, the last three Star Wars movies certainly don't flow like Lucas wrote them all at the same time, maybe he had a vague treatment...
It's a pity the end of Empire has been spoiled.
Now instead of surprise it will be irony, as the audience knows what Luke does not. The audience also is left ahead of time wondering why Obi-Wan lies to Luke about his father.
Spoiled? Perhaps, in a way. But also brings up other things which are potentially interesting.
MORTAR COMBAT!
Slightly off topic, but this guy mentions that his kid has watched RotS twice (I think it was).
My four year old girl has started expressing a MAJOR interest in all things Star Wars since seeing, for some reason, a Darth Vader poster (I hope that doesn't say something disturbing about her bugeoning subconscious).
I have sat with her and watched A New Hope, which she thoroughly enjoyed, but having seen Sith myself, I think the scene of Anakin's "disfigurement" was a wee bit much for a child of her age, and I don't know how mature this guy's seven year old is, but is ANY child of that age ready for something like that?
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
This sound like awfully sophisticated thoughts for a 7 year old. Maybe kids have gotten better at understanding these things, or maybe it's a particularly intelligent 7 year old, but I'm doubting this is for real.
Also of note is how much Lucas' writing and directing style have changed. Episode IV is very slow paced compared to III. There is only one light-sabre battle, and it consists of Obi-Wan and Darth walking around calmly while being careful not to break a sweat. Contrast that to III, which has tons of sabre (and other) battles, and it quite fast paced.
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I really hate to say this but I don't buy the idea of Anakin Skywalker being redeemed. If you think about everything he was done; killing of Jedi, a room full of 9 year olds, waging war for 20 years, blowing up a planet, etc... Just because the chucked a an old man overboard it doesn't make everything he did alright. Luke should have played Tic-Tac-Toe on his chest with his lightsaber before killing him in the most painful way imaginable.
Next time I have the pleasure of showing these to someone for the first time, I am definitely showing them 4-6, then 1-3, then 4-6 again. Spoiling some of the major emotional moments of 4-6 by seeing 1-3 first, ugh.
the Political Inquirer
Yet again, two on the front page, soon will be compiling links to all his blog-related stories, stay tuned....
There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
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'Look... Obi-Wan is pretending he doesn't know R2-D2,'
I recenetly rewatched Episode 4 and was struck with the same thought. I guessed that Obi Wan was just pretending he didn't know R2D2 since he's supposed to be keeping a low profile and Luke obviously knew nothing of Ben's role as a Jedi knight in the Clone Wars.
R2D2 could have had his memory erased, could be reprogrammed as an Imperial spy, ect. So until he saw the message from Leia and knew it was not a trap of some sort, he had to maintain his cover.
now that this kid has seen all from a fresh perspective, which side is he on?
is he childishly rooting for Luke and co, or has he instinctively come to appreciate the case for the empire?
shooting is not too good for my enemies
Ah, man! Thanks jerks. You'd think I could get on here without major spoilers. That's almost as bad as the Ken Jennings thing.
Sheesh.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
You will never have the opportunity to relive the moment of truth at the end of Empire, or learn about the twins in Return of the Jedi. It will all be a foregone conclusion. Robbing a child of this opportunity is a heinous crime...
Your threshold of what constitutes a 'heinous crime' is a bit low. I would reserve that phrase for something like forcing a child into slavery (sexual or otherwise), not eating for three days, or having access to any type of medical care whatsoever.
Guys, get a grip. Yeah, the prequels suck, but let's put things in perspective. This is why the rest of the world hates us. A 'heinous crime' for an American child is watching a movie they already know the ending of. A 'heinous crime' for a child in a third world country is a different thing entirely.
It's all about more money for George.
You need to get to out more. You'll find that attitude taken by many Muslim, Jewish, left wing christian nutjobs, and new age liberal, and athiest parents. Probably other groups I haven't had direct experience with as well.
Why am I saying anything? I was raised by left wing christian nutjobs and had friends whose parents filled one of the above categories. Being an over protective parent has little to do with being a right wing christian, and more to do with being a fscking control freak. And control freaks are found in every religious and non-religious group.
The word vader would be pronounced "FAH-DHER" in most languages of a germanic lineage including Middle-English. FATHER is basically the result of a few hundred years of regional dialect changes. In Afrikaans, Darth Vader would have said "Ek is jou vader (I am your father)". So the big *surprise* in Empire is only to those who speak modern English
I think the best order dramatically is IV, V, I, II, III, VI. You still get the surprise in Empire, and then treat the prequels as an extended flashback, which adds much more weight to the scenes with Luke, Vader and the Emperor in Jedi.
When Anakin started to burn up after losing most of his limbs, it is quite possible that his penis was severely burned. Considering that he was engulfed in flames, it is probably safe to say that his penis and scrotum were literally quite gone. Now, my question is, did the Emperor install a prosthetic, mechanical penis onto Darth Vader?
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
So Anakin not only brought balance to the force, the light side was seriously overrepresented, but also the fans, the light side was seriously overrated. ;-)
http://blogs.starwars.com.nyud.net:8090/ghent/15
/.'ing
because its a blog i thought a coral link might be useful incase of
Noone writes jokes in base 13!
The more important question is why do they wear armor that can't even take one hit.
From a blaster or an Ewok with a stick?
Neither you nor the parent poster stay around kids very much, it seems.
I have a 6yo boy. He knows every detail of every film he sees.
He knows which Teen Titans has which superpowers and weeknesses.
He knows what a clone is.
He knows what DNA is, even if he does not grasp the size of atoms and molecules yet.
His thing is dinosaurs, and when he was three he already knew the difference between stegossaurus and triceratops etc.
His favorite TV shows are "Wicked Science" and "Strange Days at Blake Holsey High", for the last 2 years.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Wars Star YOU!"
The Russia and Korea jokes finally got to Yoda, might be..
$
Sounds like this kid watched them 1, 2, 3, than 4, 5, 6. If a series is written out of order, it should never, ever be watched/read in order. Always watch or read a series in the order it was created. Otherwise things get all screwy. For example, the writers will put in an inside joke that you won't get yet, or re-use a character in a way that only makes sense out of order (like R2D2). The writer will often assume you know the backstory, so even if a work comes "first" it may rely on previous knowledge. Taking things "out of order" to put them back "in order" is a bad idea.
Stupid like a fox!
Yes but keep in mind that Darth turned to the dark side to save his wife, and then turned from the dark side to save his son. See, Darth's all about love. Or that his only loyalty is family and he'll betray anyone. ;-)
I always felt that when showing the movies to someone who's never seen the movies at all and doesn't know about Luke's father (though most people do know about Vader, since that line is so engrained in pop culture), the proper order should be 4-5-1-2-3-6. Thus you get the story of Darth Vader who's this magic "Force" weilding goon for the empire, and of Luke, this farm boy from a desert planet who also learns of the force from Crazy Old Obi-Wan (Who tells him that Vader killed his father), and then rescues the pricess, joins the rebellion, and kicks ass. Then he goes to learn more of the force from Crazy Green Yoda, but leaves too early to finish his training, gets his butt kicked, and then learns that Vader is his father. Now, start in Episode 1 where you learn how Aniken became a Jedi, how the empire began, and how Aniken became Vader. Now, a small problem with this is that you learn that Leia is Luke's sister right at the end of 3, but that's not so big a deal since Yoda hints at there being another in 5, and you find out about Leia pretty early in 6 anyway. Then after seeing the prequills, you watch ROTJ to see how everything resolves and how Luke redeems Vader and defeats the empire.
Some people are more capable of seeing violence. By 7 years old, you should know enough about your child to make that decision. Most parents are going to rely on daycare for raising their children, so they certainly shouldn't bring their child along to ROTS.
Being a younger member of the slashdot crowd (I'm 20, and live with my parents), I must say I'm disturbed by the constant young age descrimination. You have to learn how to deal with complex emotions sooner or later, and that time is different for everyone. You might want your child to grow up and not face anything ugly, but this is an ugly world and she will see some uglyness eventually. Will you be there to help her through it, or will she be too quick for you and learn everything alone?
Children are like adults, they perform and act in accordance to what you expect. This is why girls are scared of bugs, and why boys smash them or carry them around in jars. Certainly you understand that girls can love bugs just as much (there's no genetic bug-loving trait determined by gender), they generally do not because it is expected above all that they be clean and pretty.
Remember the goal of rasing children is just that. When you are done (whenever your child goes to college, or whenever she just stops listening) you want to have an adult. Keeping someone out of trouble isn't a very noble goal, and it's very hard to execute too.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
How come it takes the empire about 18 years to build the first death star? They begin construction just after luke's birth and finish it around the time of ep IV when Luke seems to be about 18. Yet the second death star is built much much quicker as Luke hardly seems to age at all between ep IV and ep VI, and they make improvements over the 1st one. Although perhaps they should have considered that small fighters might be a problem this time!
I have sat with her and watched A New Hope, which she thoroughly enjoyed, but having seen Sith myself, I think the scene of Anakin's "disfigurement" was a wee bit much for a child of her age, and I don't know how mature this guy's seven year old is, but is ANY child of that age ready for something like that?
I'm amazed people are letting their extemely young children watch movies that are rated at least DOUBLE the age the child is. Are those same parents going to be the ones to complain they don't understand why when their child reaches adolescence and starts shooting other kids at school ?
I'm all for parents making appropriate choices for their children, and only getting guidence from things such as movie ratings. However, I think a parent is being extremely irresponsible taking a seven year old child to a movie that is rated 15+. Why would it be rated 15+ if the movie is suitable for seven year olds ? They are effectively claiming that their seven year old has the mental maturity of a 15 year old. If a parent went to a PTA meeting and started claiming their seven year old had the mental maturity of a 15 year old, how many other parents would take their claims seriously. I'd think none !
Maybe there is a chance the child is possibly that mature, it seems to me that the parent isn't !
The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
As briefly outlined in my post of not-much-further down, it's not only fundamentalist right-wing religious "nutjobs" that are concerned over what their children watch.
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
Hey didn't HAN SHOOT FIRST!?
So while the ESB ending was spoiled, he doesn't face the permanent scar of knowing how GL so blatantly changed the original movies.
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
Agreed, you can't get the full experience from watching the series just once. It's like watching Shawshank Redemption - you don't want to know the "end" the first time around, but to really appreciate the movie you've gotta watch it again after knowing the ending.
I've got 4-5-6 in my blockbuster queue. Apparently enough others have the same idea that there's a waiting list, though.
you are implying that the Dark Side is a gay conspiracy, then you are being very, very naughty. :-)
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Yep, Eps IV-VI had bad acting and dialogue.
They succeded better for two reasons:
1. The directors worked around the bad dialogue a bit better.
2. Alec Guiness.
3. By far the biggest, Harrison Ford. Without Harrison Ford there would have been no episode V, let alone VI,I,II,III. He made the character work, he made his dialogue work. He knew the character better than Lucus. He ad-libbed the "I know" response to Leia's "I Love You".
The other actors and their dialogue varied. Hamill was a great farm boy, a mediocre Jedi. Fisher was terrible all around. But Harrison Ford glued it together and made it work.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Ok, mod me down as troll, flamebait, off topic and worse, but before you do that, could you please help me. I'm not into Starwars at all. I've seen one or two on the wide screen once and probably half of some of the other ones, when I still had a tele. I've forgotten most of it. Does anyone know of a web site where they give a short but good description of the main characters only and the main story line for the six films? I really just want the basics, so I don't feel left out when my mother discusses the films with my grandma.
To me, one of the greatest thing about Star Wars is the Big Revelation in Empire. Why spoil that? I will be watching Empire tomorrow night with my daughter and I can't wait to see her jaw hit the floor just as the jaws of the collective audience in 1980 hit the floor. If any of you out there have children coming of age and want to show them these films, PLEASE show them in release order. They don't need the prequels to appreciate the original trilogy
Don't get me wrong. I am one of the few who think the prequels kick ass from start to finish, but why spoil one of the greatest surprises in movie history just to give a lot of back story that doesn't matter much until you've see the originals anyway?
Besides, for a new viewer, the prequels still contain the surprise of Palpatine being the Emperor so it's just fine to end your viewing of the films with Sith. Palpatine isn't referred to by name in Jedi so there is still a satisfying build-up and climax in the prequels with that revelation (most of us hardcore fans might not realize that because we already knew who he was. New, younger viewers won't.)
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Portman or Fisher?
and turned to CRAP. I rented the first, "original" Star Wars so my young son could watch it, and it was totally screwed. I will only watch the first 3 in their theatrical release format from now on, if they still exist. Going back and muppetizing movies should be a crime punishable by being ass-raped by a gorilla.
I won't bother watching the next 3 steaming piles of crap.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
- in the first prequel mention of other relatives on tatoonie was never made. If there were releatives why didn't they try to get darth vader and his mom out of slavery?
- Obi Wan is OLD, in the first Star Wars, but none of the Jedi are that old in the prequels. I guess their lifestyle contributes to them getting killed off.
OK people, pay attention and learn something There have been tech advances in the 20 years since the "end" of eps 3 and the start of 4 Obi-Wan did not "recognize" R2D2 because he was not supposed to let on what had been happening, obviously he had been training himself to hide from Vader. Uncle Owen did not recognize C3PO because threepio did not have coverings when he was on that farm previously. In additon there are probably MILLIONS of similar protocol droids, recall the one that threepio ran into on Bespin? Vader walked like "frankenstein" because he was 1) in pain, 2) using new prostheses 3) probably having problems breathing He shouted NNNOOOOO!!!! because he went through everything he did in order to SAVE his wife and yet he has been told HE killed her. Would eny of you done differently? AND FINALLY>>>> you people need to quit trying to apply EARTH and HUMAN values and concepts to what is supposed to be an ALIEN and NON_TERRAN society, these people were not meant to think like you and me, their culture is considerably different than the USofA
Talking to Geeks is like eating jello with a chainsaw, interesting, but painful.
Unless dad had the wisdom to show him the original Episode IV, he'll grow up forever thinking that Greedo fired first.
The path to the dark side revising history is, George...
Obi-Wan: "I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid."
Ahem... perhaps you forgot about Grievous? :^)
Definitely owned.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
... to the rest of the world? well, not that they have succeeded so far.
I have the VHS tapes released as a colleciton all original, including Han shooting first, I really need to find out how to demacrovision a video signal in order to copy the tapes to a better format than VHS tape before they wear out.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Here we have dozens of Jedi walking around going, "The Force is strong with you, bozo!" to everybody in the story - except Palpatine - the one guy with enough Force to fry Mace Windu and blow Yoda on his ass!
What's wrong with this picture?
Sure, they suspected he was a grubby politician, but even Mace Windu, on being directly informed by Anakin that Palpatine was a Sith Dark Lord, goes "Are you sure?" Gimme a break, Mace! How about: "Search your feelings - you know this to be true!" would be a nice line at that point!
As for Yoda, greenie baby, you must have been doing something seriously wrong!
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
since when does PG-13 mean 15+?
PG-13 is a trademark of the Motion Picture Association of America. MPAA ratings apply in the USA and influence the ratings used in interprovince distribution of home videos in Canada. Other movie rating boards operate in other countries; these may either be administered by a movie industry trade group or by a communications. The ones that aren't affiliated with the MPAA have other rating systems; one may have, say, 7+, 12+, and 15+.
the current u.s. policy is inept, inefficient, complicated, but with some simple world view: god and money. at least the current government, supported by ca. 51% of the actively voing population.
an inept pre-dictatorship? no, thanks.
"So, does this mean that R2-D2 is really the main character in Star Wars?"
However, it reminds me of a thought I had regarding the series: What if the whole series was actually formed from the perspective of Anakin Skywalker when he was killed in Return of the Jedi?
The evidence is simple, everyone has selective memory no matter what. He remembers himself and everything around him as a youth as more or less an optimistic illusion.
One classic example of this concept is Ronald Reagan's visit to his home town, described as a bastion to Americana, from the good old days. Reagan, however, visably shuddered upon returning.
In this case, Anakin viewed himself as being only slightly annoyed at being a slave, but otherwise an innocent "whoopie" shouting boy. Now if YOU were the second in command of the Empire, wouldn't you be more than happy to nuke the Hutts in retaliation for holding and selling you as a slave? For that matter, why not just use Tattoine as the first test target for the Death Star? He had no ties to that planet, other than hatred and sorrow (and of course the Sand People who killed his mother).
Using the same assumption, it would seem realistic that he would also conveniently forget about some of Obi Wan's later associations with the droids he owned/built, or be able to sense Obi Wan's presence on that planet (since he didn't have the convenience of the force cloaking fauna of Dagobah). One would think that, with force abilities somewhere between Vader and the Emperor, you'd show up pretty well as a blip on their radar no matter how much you try to hide yourself.
So perhaps from that point of view (as Lucas loves to put it), you could say all 6 episodes were really just Vader being maudlin and nostalgic.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
It's a pity that the prequels were spoiled, that the DVDs for the original films were spoiled with added new features rather than the original theatrical movies. They should release special DVDs that have the original, non-jazzed up version of the movies.
-Mattman
http://OneBillion.blogspot.com
You know what, I cannot wait until you have kids of your own. When you hold your child for the first time a switch gets thrown that says you must protect them from all the ills in the world, whether its a scrape on the knee or its objectionable material in the media.
I have three kids, 7, 2 and six weeks old. My seven year old son is extremely bright, topping his classes, however I still have to vet what he watches and reads. Children are incredibly impressionable and while you may not want to end up with a social vegetable at the same time you do not want to end up with an adult who is numb from the neck up or worse.
No, there is another.
If you wanna point out differences, fine, that's one thing... but pretending like a "barely" 7 year old kid asked them... c'mon.
...why do people do this, seriously?
"Is the Death Star done already?"
They didn't speak of it by name at all in the prequels. How does he know what it is?
"Are the republic troops clones too?" - chances are, a 7 year old doesn't know wtf a republic is. So why would he ask a question using that word?
So yeah... I call BS. Many of these questions are formulated from either a teen or an adult. No way a 7 year old kid asked them.
After watching "A New Hope" again, it was obvious that Obi-wan could have forgotten all about the R2 droid. His quote that he "[N]ever ... owned a droid before" in A New Hope is true, as Obi-wan's droid (R4) was destroyed in "Revenge of the Sith."
As for the rest of the commentary, technilogical advancements made during the period between movies account for the "Hyperspace Ring." For example, in eposides 4-6, the Empire moves from older TIE Fighters to newer TIE Interceptors- and that clearly shows how the technology in StarWars is always advancing.
I read on some guy's site, I forget where, that he suggests the proper viewing order of all 6 movies be as follows-
4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6
This way, the Vader spoiler isn't ruined, and then after everything in Empire, we can take a step back to see how everything used to be, and after that, close out everything on a high note. I, for one, agree with this order completely.
I am glad that YOU vet what he watches and reads. Too many parents these days expect the Government to do it for them, at the expense of adults who do not have such responsibility.
You are a credit to parents everywhere. I appreciate you controlling your child's entertainment, and not expecting MINE to be watered down for his/her protection.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Off topic, but am I the only one who thinks that they were stupid thinking about Anakin "bringing balance to the force?" Guess what, there were only a bunch of Jedi sitting around in a circle. They thought all the Sith were gone. Therefore "balance" means that more bad guys would come along to equal out the good guys. Dumb move.
The plot hole that really gets me (and this guy does a good job of dispelling several potential holes) is why not just train Luke and Leia in the ways of the force from day one. And why not have a more proactive approach to taking Vader and the Emperor out? Why wait until he's built his ultimate weapon, and only then try get Ben to somehow do something about it? If Luke and Leia had been properly trained, they could have tryed to assasinate the Emperor and Vader simultaneously, before the deathstar was operational, and thus behead the empire before a planet (Alderaan) ends up getting destroyed. Bloody sloppy.
argues with 7-yr old child :P
A myth starts in the middle. Therefore, watching them from the most recent movies to the 70s/80s movies is not watching them "in order". The correct order is to watch the cronologically older movies first, and the most recent second.
The effects got way easier to do. This is why Lucas created ILM and what not.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Genius reading.
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
I have a stupid question, but I have to ask it. That gangly looking clown who was standing with the Emperor and Vader right at the end of Episode III, didn't he look suspiciously like a younger version of Moff Tarkin (lurchy bone structure). If so, it is rather ironic that he was overseeing the construction of the battle station that would be his grave a short 18 years later.
"Hey Gary, why are we wearing bras on our heads?"
Luke, I am your father.
Darth Vader as a little boy, I don't know who my father is.
Yoda smiling in the background.
He sure does move quick as a little green dude in the earlier movies.
How quick could he move when he was even younger?
Darth, your father, I am.
you don't move so fast anymore, damn whippersnapper Jedi :). Seriously though, there is a reason for this. Luke was comparatively untrained, and the Emperor and Vader where so powerful by then they were beyond the need for light Sabers. You'll notice the Emperor didn't even have a saber by then, and Vader didn't draw his Saber to block blaster bolts. Luke overpowered Vader in Jedi not with skill, but with hate and the power of the Dark Side.
Ok, I'm done geeking out for the night.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
At the end of RotS, it wasnt the first death star, it was just the prototype (it made an apperance in the books, KJAs ones IIRC), so it probably only took them a couple of years to finish the full one (i'm sure someone can find a timeline somewhere), and as someone pointed out, although operational, the second one wasnt even half finished when it got asploded.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
I actually think watching the Star Wars movies in order -- 1,2,3,4,5,6 -- is a big mistake.
The correct order for the best story is:
4,
5,
1,2,3 - as a "flashback" to explain the origins of DV and the fall of the Jedi after Luke finds out DV is his father.
6 - to wrap eveything up and reconcile DV and the Jedi.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
I personally find that the best order to watch them is:
I, II, III.
sic transit gloria mundi
One of the disconnects was in the original series the impression given was that the empire was extremely old. But after the latest series of movies it is obvious the empire only lasted at best about 20 years, the time it takes Luke to grow up.
:)
Obi Wan apparently aged a lot in those 20 years, I guess hiding from the Empire wears you down.
Born in '82?! Holy crap I feel old now.
On the train home from seeing ROTS, me and my friends were talking to a couple who were at the same screening, and one of them posed the question of what's the best order to show the Star Wars saga to your kids (or someone else who hasn't seen any of it before). The obvious choices of I-VI and IV-VI then I-III have their drawbacks so I suggest doing things a little differently.
How about starting with ANH and TESB, but then only showing ROTJ up to the point where Luke surrenders to the Empire. Then show TPM, AOTC, the Clone Wars cartoons and ROTS. After that, show the climax of ROTJ.
Good things about this order are that you preserve all the original trilogy revelations about the Skywalker family tree, the lightsaber battles and special effects get increasingly cooler and you get a happy ending!
One point that I'm still debating about is whether to stop ROTJ just before, or just after Luke surrenders (around chapter 20 of the DVD IIRC). The scene where Luke and Vader are talking alone is the first time you see a "human side" of Vader, which you might want to preserve until the end. Up until that point the audience might well be thinking that Luke will kill Vader, and that scene probably seeds the first doubts.
You can't just go declaring shenanigans on innocent people, that's how wars get started!
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I don't know about other 7 year olds, but my 7 year old boy saw it with me. However we did not go in cold-turkey. I took the time with him to re-emphasize that it is a story for entertainment. We watch it and pretend it is real to enjoy watching a story unfold.
I described the technology used in making the film, and we watched some documentaries along those lines (blue screens/ miniatures / choreography etc). He actually got a good feel for how films are made and how the actors really work (or try to) and how the computer guys create this fantasy. I wanted him to be able to immerse himself in the film to the point where he would enjoy it but still be able to step back mentally (if things got intense) and say, "yea I know this is 'acting' for my entertainment and they put a great deal of effort into making this 'look' real."
We actually had an interesting discussion afterwards about how the computer guys removed Anakin's arms/legs and made the final fight as realistic as they could. We also talked about the choreography of the fight scenes and even about people manipulating others (Palpatine - Anakin) and how it was "skillfully done" and how people manipulate others in real life.
In the end, based on his reaction to the film, I know he really enjoyed it (I didn't ruin it), and I think he got more out of it compared to a cold turkey viewing. I did think hard about even taking him, but again I think I prepared him well. I don't regret it.
That's pretty cynical. By your logic, leadership is delegated to those least deserving in the Star Wars universe. I guess the best way to get ahead in the Rebel Alliance is by being retarded then.
When you get to be a little older, you tend to forget things pretty easily, so it's plausible that he really forgot about R2
Now, where are my glasses?
Oh... uh... nevermind.
I just found out recently that they're being marketed in chronological, rather than publication, order, and it seemed a bit like Star Wars, indeed. They're prequels, yes, but they read better out-of-order. Like "Pulp Fiction" or "Memento", the order of the story is important.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Kevlar and Spectra helmets are meant to stop small caliber rounds actually.
Don't you mean: "In Soviet Russia, if slimy mudhole after living your life in the top of an ivory tower your pension paid only enough to live in, senile you would be too"
IMHO, the order I plan to watch them in is:
4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6
This saves me almost 8 hours of my life compared to your method, and preserves enough of the surprises long enough to make them enjoyable.
It's too bad that such bizzare ordering is the only thing that makes sense. Kudos, Lucas, you asshat.
Check out our infosecurity industry blog: http://securitymusings.com/
Shows what you know. I was not the original poster, just someone who thinks that the majority of mods on /. are a bunch of jackasses! Just when you thought that you had Anonymous Coward all figured out...
It's not surprising to me that Obi-Wan didn't remember R2-D2. He hadn't seen him for many years, and his friend's droid probably didn't figure too high in his mind during that period.
What is more surprising to me is that Vader didn't remember C-3P0. Unlike the friend-of-a-friend relationship between Obi-Wan and R2-D2, Vader actually built C-3P0 with parts he'd snarfed as a kid.
It's also a little surprising to me that neither R2 nor 3P0 seem to see anything significant in the name "Skywalker" or the planet Tatooine...
Never mind, someone else said it a lot better.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
This isn't your father's trilogy
...how to demacrovision a video signal...
Never really thought about it, but wouldn't a signal amplifier into a video-in (say a capture card) work? I think Macrovision on VHS has to do with signal strength. Can anyone verify (or at least give a correct answer)?
"This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
I agree.
KAHN!!!
(3 seconds)
KAHN!!!!!!!
Oh wait...this ain't Star Trek.
IMPOSSIBLE!!! NOOO!!!!!
(3 seconds)
NOOOOOOOO!!
The M-16 was not meant for only CQB situations. That's why the US military uses the MP5 and its variants for that instead. The M-16 was excels at distance combat though, which explains the dual-aperture rear sights in the A2. While the AK-47 can spray a room with fire and nothing else, the M-16 can be used for accurate distance firing in addition to CQB. It's pretty useful that every soldier in a squad can engage a far attacker.
The performance of the M-16 (or any weapon) is defines its "mission" (what ever that is supposed to mean). It's not the other way around.
My son (who's 8) saw the first three when he was barely 4. Loved them. Saw Raiders, etc. that same year. Just teach your kids the difference between movies and reality. Doy.
I don't even know how old my daughter was (she's 5 now) when she was first exposed to Star Wars and Raiders. She's not very interested in explosions and gunplay. But she did sit with my son and I and watch RotS the weekend after it came out. She and I laughed quietly at the crap-ass parts.
She thought Anakin looked like The Black Knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail. She pulled my ear down and whispered (as Anakin was writhing in dismembered, white-hot agony), "It's only a flesh wound!"
How does R2D2 remember Obi-Wan was his previous owner if R2 got a memory sweep after the last prequel? Was R2D2 just saying that to convince Luke to bring them to Ben? Or did he figure out a way to back-up his memory before the mind-sweep, so he could restore his memory after the sweep? Also, how come we didn't get to see the spirit of Qui Gon Jinn? Does Darth Vader ever see the spirit of Qui Gon Jinn? Obi-wan tells Darth that if he strikes him down (in New Hope) that he'll become more powerful, which makes me come to think that Darth had seen the spirit of Qui Gon Jinn and knows Obi-Wan will become a spirit.
There are a ton of ways to do this. I'm going to take my VHS tapes of the THX Star Wars to the local university library and use their VHS -> DVD dubber (a practice that is not so discretely encouraged).
However, my Ex girlfriend never saw the original Star Wars... hell, I know probably 2 dozen people who haven't. This really isn't /. worthy... I mean, unless I live in the only area in the world where grown human beings never saw Star Wars. =)
-Vendal Thornheart
> 7-Year Old Prequel Fan On ANH
"Where's Jar-Jar?"
"So Anakin killed his own brother and sister-in-law?"
"How did a highly placed Wookie war hero become a rogue ne'er-do-well on the run from a Hutt?"
"Ewwww, they kissed!"
"How come Vader is so huge but Luke isn't very tall at all?"
"Obviously Obi-Wan could take Anakin at his best. So why didn't he just go back and kill him?"
"Where's the Emperor?"
"Why can that guy talk to Vader like that and get away with it?"
"Gosh, little beady-eyed trading nomads who'll try to sell you junk called Jews" "No, son. That's 'Jawas'".
"Do those Sandpeople have mental problems or something?"
And his final observation:
"Why do they all only use one regular lightsaber?"
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
That doesn't involve finishing on Ewoks?
How about II, III, V, the second half of IV, LOTR III (minus the extra endings) and finish on Spaceballs?
Slashdot - Mutual Assured Discussion
I like pie! Do you like pie?
Shortly after "the first Star Wars movie"* came out, during the first wave of Star Wars hysteria, the costumed character "Dark Invader" appeared at the local mall -- kids could get their pictures taken with him --, for a week or so, I guess until MPAA forces caught up with him. That has to have been one depressing job.
* I guess I am showing my age by not calling it "ANH"
You might have your 4 year olds and such who haven't seen the "first 3," but try being 24 like myself and only seeing the new ones and never 4, 5 and 6. I think I will sit down all the way through and watch them all one Saturday in the future... every friend of mine wonders how I went through all these years not watching even though I'm a huge StarTrek fan haha.
-jiggytiggy
Don't you think Samsung's Droid division, in some crazy scheme to make a profit, made more than one C3 and R2 model droids?
7 years is way too old. My 5 year old loves the movies, although each time I see it again I cringe at the corny dialog and wonder how Lucas pulled it off.
IIRC, Macrovision uses a non-visible portion of the video signal to muck with something related to brightness. A VCR with an automatic gain will adjust up and down as it is fooled by this. There are filters that leave out the Macrovision pulses.
He just *might* not need it anymore, being half-machine & all, it might have done something to his mind - like warped it further.
Embrace the singularity!
I doubt that David Brin will be writing any Hollywood blockbusters soon. (His Uplift series, while it looks fascinating, doesn't look like it would lend itself to a ninety-minute BAM BAM KABOOM fest.
Serenity may be more your cup of tea, perhaps not. If the Firefly series floated your boat, the movie should as well.
His Dark Materials is being made into a series of movies. It's been described as a secular response to Narnia, but I haven't read it, so perhaps it's not what you're looking for.
Surprisingly, I really enjoyed Pitch Black . Vin Diesel apparently forgot how to act after that, but it's a pretty interesting story. You can read the screenplay; someone was kind enough to put it online. But that's not really that space opera-y.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
That's close to the order I worked out, but not quite. I'd show them in this order:
IV - where we all began
I and II - Get to know Luke's Dad, but don't reveal that he's Darth Vader
V - The original surprise is preserved, and magnified because we know Anakin as a character.
III - Ok, now that you've gotten the big reveal from Empire, it's time to watch Sith and see how it all went down.
VI - See Anakin's redemption while his fall is still fresh in your mind.
I figured that anyone seeing the movies in order would get to Episode 4 and say
"WTF! did the whole effects industry go on strike?"
Never play chicken with a passive aggressive.
you know grandparent was exaggerating, there's no need to polish your moral superiority badge.
Good luck.
You might also consider doing an ed2k search for "star wars new hope original", which picks up things like Star Wars Episode 4 - A New Hope (1977) Definitive Original Edition.avi, which I can't vouch for, but hey, it might just be what it says it is.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Now on to the parent comments...
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
First, regarding R2D2; R2 units are common place, just watch the movies, R2 was never owned by Obi-Wan, it was used by Anakin. Also, in episode one, when the Queens ship has taken damage the droids are sent up the "chute" to fix the problem. R2 is the last droid out. If you pay close attention another blue, white and silver R2 unit exits the ship before our R2D2. R2's are common and Obi-wan never owned this R2D2. Also, some have discussed R2 is faking knowing Obi-Wan, let's see, I don't know about you but I heard R2 say Beep-Boop-Tick-Boop-Squeel-Beep, which plainly translates to "Obi-Wan, where have you been all these years, My you've gotten grey, How's the green guy and why don't you recognize me."
Next, C3PO; In episode 2, 3PO is "owned" by Owen Lars (AKA Uncle Owen) at this time 3PO is a dull silver grey rusty brownish sort of color. In episode 3, 3PO has been Gold coated and at the end of the movie his memory is wiped. In episode 4, 3PO is mostly Gold, but one leg is back to the more dull silver grey rusty brownish sort of color. The now Uncle Owen doesn't recognize his former, now re-colored, protocol droid, Hummm, has uncle Owen lost his marbles, NOPE. Paint my common washing machine and in 20 years it won't recognize me, nor will I recognize it.
And last "Why don't those ships have Hyperspace rings", oh let me think; Isn't that like asking why doesn't your computer have a 5.25" floppy drive?" Only a kid would ask such an obvious question...
A hearty "hear hear" from me, KFG.
This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
However, first viewing order is something that could be debated over and over, and it's always going to be settled differently according to the opinions of the individual or parents involved. My personal opinion is that while Darth Vader being Luke's father was certainly a surprise, I would much rather be surprised with everything that happens in Revenge of the Sith. We take for granted the fact that we knew what had to happen in the film, but if you had no idea what was about to happen I think you'd find your surprise at Episode III would be greater than the one line in Empire.
Another issue that you bring up is the way in which 1-3 "rely on previous knowledge". What happened to the people saying that part of the fun of Star Wars was that you were thrown head first into a universe that didn't explain itself? If you take the same attitude while watching A New Hope for the first time, you're going to spend the first chunk of the movie trying to figure out why you should care about the two robots and of what importance they are to the story. It is only through their actions over the course of the films that you realise their importance, and I think you find the exact same thing in the prequel trilogy. I also believe that while the force is not explained in the prequels like it was in the originals, it is still made clear that the jedi use the force to do all their cool tricks, and that's all you need to know. I find this works well, while still retaining the importance of Obi-wan's explanation of the force in Episode IV.
By the way, I'm a 19 year old who grew up with Star Wars. I've loved Star Wars since I was about 7, but when Episode I came out I was 13. I didn't go into that cinema as an adult, I went in as a 13 year old looking for a kickass movie. I found one. My movie tastes have matured and evolved a lot over the past 6 years, but there is still a place in my heart for the prequel films. They're certainly not the best movies ever made, but that doesn't stop them from entertaining the shit out of me.
The correct viewing order is: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6
No other order makes as much sense.
The most rabid believers in American Exceptionalism are the exact same people whose policies are destroying it.
Well, the cheapest way to do it is to run your new-ish VCR into something that has the right in- and outputs, yet doesn't grok macrovision. I use an old beta unit for that purpose.
However, it's really worth tracking down rips from the laserdisc set if you'd like the best possible quality. Non-degrading picture + more common Svideo outputs (yes, some (S)VHS players have 'em, but you'd really have to go out of your way to own one of them) both contribute a lot to having something that doesn't awful to anyone used to 36"+ TVs and DVD picture quality.
4.7GB ISOs of the laserdisc versions are on Torrent sites everywhere.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
While watching ROTS, as Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lighsaber--leaving him to burn to death--all I could think of was the ANH quote "your father wanted you to have it when you were old enough" and damn was that that a stretch. Makes the "betrayed and murdered your father" seem pretty reasonble by comparison...
Vader's redemption follows the Faust principle: one decision for good at the end of a life is enough to make up for a life ill-spent.
So far as Luke's reaction: consider that Luke has no family, and has never known either of his parents(Beru and Lars had him call them aunt and uncle, implying a void in the mother and father slots). Consider also that since Anakin is Luke's father, and he went so far to the dark side, Luke might want to redeem him for a similar reason to Frodo's wish to redeem Gollum -- to show that there's hope for himself.(If Luke was born of a man of pure evil, then what's keeping Luke from inheriting it? It may not make for good genetics, but it is something people in the situation would tend to think about)
This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
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I think I like episodes 4 and 5 less than 3 because I don't have any of the nostalgia with the movies.
best college pickem site ever: pickem.terrbear.org
PREQUEL REA--god, I don't have the heart to do it.
Having shot both weapons I can say that there definitely is a difference between them... in the hands of a properly trained marksman. There is a reason the US trains their infantry so hard. Those guys can shoot. They make good use of the superior accuracy of they M-16/M-4.
Also, the M-16 has a much lighter kick, allowing for faster accurate followup shots than you can get with the AK. Even using three-round-bursts there is less deflection/vibration.
Another major advantage of the smaller lighter round is that the troops can carry far more 5.56 ammunition. The loudest sound in a gun fight is *click*, and he who runs out of ammunition first loses. Sure, you get a bunch of jerks out there with only 15 or 20 rounds in their AKs, but these are not long-lived individuals, generally. The word 'cannonfodder' comes to mind.
And, yes, our third-world adversaries do consider it a victory when one of their illiterate enthusiasts manages to shoot on of our boys/girls (or blows him/her up, more likely), but this has nothing to do with the quality of the American rifle.
I know there was debate about the decreased kill probability when using the smaller round. I think the final outcome was that a wounded enemy was often better than a dead one, and I think this speaks well of Americans generally.
Oops, I just realized that this isn't a gun thread. Sorry. Back to Star Wars.
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There are rips of the pre-SE laserdisc edition, which are theatrical versions (Han shooting first, no 'ring' around the death star explosion, etc)
I'm thinking of the Dune series... If one started reading them books in chronological order (the 3x "Butlerian Jihad" books + the 3x "House" books), I doubt very much anyone would ever get to "Dune" as they would have given up in sheer boredom. Those prequels only made sense in the context of explaining the events of the original books (and bad explanations at that, imho). That's going to be true of most prequels, isn't it? Well, I'm just thankful that JK Rowling has said that she'd never write a "Happy Potter Episode 1."
(no text)
Yet the designations of the two that we see are C3PO and R2-D2. Never do we find out if C3PO is a model number or a serial number, but the latter seems to be implied. As for R2, It is clearly implied that it is an R2-unit. Meaning model number R2, serial number D2. Even granting that there could be more letters in the galactic alphabet, The population of the republic is so large that our named numbers probably don't do it justice. Those droids have very low numbers indeed. What are the odds that two 'low-number' droids would end up in the hands of a moisture farmer on tatooine? I still remember that time I was driving behind the car with registration number: 7. Those droids are billions of times more rare than that.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Would eny(sic) of you done differently?
I expected to see this scene progress quite differently as I was watching it. Everything was going great... Vader started ripping everything apart with the Force, but then we get to this corny melodramatic "NNOOOOO!!!!" A much more moving scene that wouldn't have torn me away from my suspension of disbelief would have had Vader continuing to destroy the room, finally resorting to physically ripping things apart as well until he became so exhausted that he would just collapse and give up. If I could have seen that I would have stood up and cheered.
It's scary being a Flash and Flex developer on Slashdot. You guys are unnaturally rabid.
Recently I went to dinner with some of my wife's fiends from college and one guy was supposedly a big fan of star wars, like myself. It was strange though, I consider him the anti-fan. He hates the original movies, likes the new versions of 4,5, and 6 alright. He loved episode 1 and 2, hated episode 3.
He told me because I like the oringal works and not the works Lucus wanted to make 'orginally',I'm not a true fan.
I don't know, I don't get it. I think the original versions were great and I didn't like the cheap looking add-ons put it. I thought Episode 1 was boring, Episode 2 was mediocre at best, and 3 was the best prequal.
I think you hit right on it. You have to teach kids to see both the mechanics and the emotion behind things. We really have to learn to let kids relish the good things too.. in general we're really bad about keeping boys from "girlie" things. teach kids to feel the range of emotions and not just the fighting, anger, hating ones...
Think about it - the Jedi by that stage were basically gone - a spent force (if you pardon the bad pun).
'Vader' had decapitated the Trade Alliance.
The Emperor had the entire clone army at his command.
What point the Death Star ?
Anyone seen the new ending of Episode 6? They replaced the old Anakin (played by Shaw) with Hayden Christensen when Luke sees Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin appear to him. As well, they added a short aerial tour of animated celebrations throughout various parts of the galaxy.
An example of this is in episode 3 when they talk about the short range TIE fighter.
I assume you mean Episode 4.
Good points, otherwise.
I'd say it's a perfectly logical conclusion that Obiwan didn't recognize R2D2 as the droid Padme and Anakin owned.
Mix the failings of Usenet with the shortcomings of the World Wide Web and the result is slashdot.
After watching the final fight scene in Episode III between Obi Wan and Anakin, was anyone else reminded of King Arthur's fight with the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail? Oh, well. Sith happens.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
...Star Wars - its not real!
NO, Obi-Wan would have know instantly.. both droids spend extensive time with anakin.. his "force" would have been all over them... also they were carrying a message from Luke's sister.. so their was then no doubt.. but of course Obi-Wan can't explain everything to luke right now... I'd love to see a story about that week on tatooine from Obi-Wan's point of view as the force brings all the pieces together.
After hearing so much about parents taking their kids to see R and PG13 movies (god you should've seen the kids StarshipTroopers...) I can't help but wonder if "Parental Guidance" is misinterpreted as "parents should guide their kids". IMU, it means "this is guidance for you parents." Why the hell don't people care? Is it just the arrogance that they know what's best, or that they think that their kids are "mature" (in which case people need to get a fsking grip and stop kidding themeselves.)?
---k--
</stupid>
My opinion is that Star Wars is like Monna Lisa.
First of all is should have a place in one big museum of arts. No questions it deserves this.
Second everyone (like Mr. D. Brown) is asking a lot of questions about strange things in the painting. Nonetheless it is a fashinating grat piece of arts challenging the ages. And so (IMHO) will SW.
Finally, if you study any movie (prequels and sequels especially), you'll find a lot of "strange things" in there. None can perfect! Maybe none would like to be.
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
If your contention were correct, Idi Amin would have lead Uganda to world domination while Margaret Thatcher tumbled the UK. Weren't the lessons of the 20th century to the contrary? Is it efficient for the Poliburo to have party members honeycombed through the whole economy, reporting every time someone neglects their duty? Would you take the Commissariat for Food over Wendy's? And doesn't hindsight (The Gipper v. Gorby) show whom to choose in a battle for military might? The Cathedral may work adequately for a campus in Redmond, but The Bazaar is the only realistic model to run a whole nation by.
"Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries!"
I'm not overly concerned with children seeing violence or sex. I'm concerned with the dubious morality that goes with it.
In the Star Wars prequels (haven't seen the Ep.III), we see Jedi controlling people's minds to rob them (sell me the components I need), and murdering countless people. And this is shown as acceptable by virtue of them being the Good Guys (aka "our side").
There are many more subtle examples, but this is the concern, not that there is violence, but that it is the way to solve disputes. The hero is the hero because he is stronger than the bad guy. Wrong message.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
I agree... It is nice to have a fresh perspective on Episode IV.
I'm wondering if a parent should be happy that their kid didn't point out that Leia kissed her brother or worried that they did notice it and didn't see anything wrong about it.
Han Solo is a fictional charactor, whereas Ewan McGregor is a (somewhat|moderatly|very) talanted actor.
.....but you guys are ALL oversimplifying
What you people don't realise is that the key to understanding the entire Star Wars "Cosm" is not by geekish (and quite frankly idiotic) invocation of statistically idiotic phrases, neologisms and haphazard gratuitious use of irrelevant terminology, but by simple apprehension of Lucas's insane zen consciousness
thus: Each episode considered alone is in fact a momentary reality whose self-editing narrative creates an implied past, the retrocausality of the present not presenting a unique history but a most probable one of which the antecedent Lucasian installment is not. Subsequent installments are equally manifold. The only consistancy required is to invariant facts(technomythic archetypes) of our own choosing(like IG-88)
am i making any sense yet? like the parent said:"your prefered movie-installment defines your reality"
All Palindromic Recursive Acronyms Like APRALARPA Require Pronounceable Abbreviations
What do you THINK that big red lightsaber's supposed to be?
...that Anakin is shown at the end of Jedi with Obi Wan and Yoda in the great afterlife of the light side of the force....he couldn't have gotten there without turning back to the good side. Nice theory, but sorry, back to the drawing board...
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
I had the same problem with Konq yesterday, but when I moved to a machine with Mozilla, I didn't have the problem. It's an annoying bug, whatever it is...
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Basically, a dictorship is uncompatible with a free press, leaving space for ever growing corruption.
That is why the Soviet Union collapsed, while the US (despite its obviously dysfunctional political system) prevailed.
Checks and balances are needed.
...I saw it when it first came out in 1977, several times actually, and I distinctly remember seeing the "Episode IV" at the beginning of the space scroll and thinking "what the....episode LV???" (Hey, I was Eight at the time...gimme a break).
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Of course you do. Virtually everyone who is in this conversation still lives with their parents. I don't. But I haven't seen Ep 1-3, either. And I saw Ep 5 and 6 in the theaters when they came out, and haven't watched them since.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
R2D2 = R. Daneel Olivow?
...
Okay, *THAT* I did not see coming
Another inconsistency that bothers me:
In EpI we learn that young Anakin was a tinkerer of immense skill. Take a look at that pod racer, for one. And watch the actual Boonta Eve race closely - two sets of circumstances prevent him from leading that race from jump: he stalls at the beginning and that crazy scene where one of the tether cables breaks loose. Despite this, his speeder is agile and fast enough to overtake all the other contesants and eventually win. The kid must have been an engineering genius.
BUT there's C3PO. WHY would he build a protocol droid that LOOKED LIKE EVERY OTHER PROTOCOL DROID?!? And then make it so damn prissy?
Ok, I can accept his not designing the AI for the droid, but (IMO) C3PO's frame would have been totally unique to accomodate the harsh living conditions of Tattooine.
Finally, it would seem that Obi-Wan is not the only one playing the "I don't remember this droid" game. In EpV, C3PO is in a box, yes, but Darth NEVER recognizes him during the carbonite freeze scene. Oops?
Yes, I too have lost sleep over the prequels...
Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try. ~Yoda
It's like being a British soldier in Iraq
Not many dates liked to watch Tarzan or Mulan or similars... :-) The girls just asked for "You got m@il" or "Sleepless in Seattle" or some other Meg Ryan flick.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I guess the best way to get ahead in the Rebel Alliance is by being retarded then.
Why not? Seems to work for America...
*ducks*
The time will come when he finishes school and gets a boss for the first time, he will see more clearly.
This applies to the prequels as well, but much more so to the original trilogy. Often, in light of all the action and special effects and so on, people overlook some of the more subtle symbolism that's present in Star Wars. One of the big areas that does this for me is the way light and color are used. Some examples:
In ANH, Obi-Wan is telling Luke about "the old days". At one point, he says, "Oh, yes... I was once a Jedi, like your father." He then leans back, revealing a brightly lit window -- very symbolic.
Han Solo's garb. His shirt is white, the vest he wears over it is black, just like his personality: on the outside, he appears to be a real creep, but on the inside, he does have noble qualities.
Colors in general: Darth Vader and the Imperial officers all wear either black or muted shades of gray; Leia and the rebels wear white or lighter colors. (Although Lucas did mess this up by dressing the storm troopers in white.)
One of my favorites: throughout ROTJ, Luke, formerly dressed all in white, is now dressed entirely in black, symbolic of his upcoming temptation to turn to the dark side. He stays dressed entirely in black, until he fully and openly refuses to turn to the dark side. Shortly after he does this and the emperor starts frying him, a small light-gray panel opens on the front of his tunic, symbolizing his choice to stay with the good side. This panel stays open for the remainder of the film.
Good filmmaking elements that are very subtle and often overlooked, as I said, in all of the "sound and fury".
And the beginning of the story, not the back story, is III.
That's a tough choice, really. Left to myself, I would never set foot in another Wendy's, McDonalds, Burger King etc. I occasionally get dragged there by friends, and I always wonder to myself what went wrong to cause mass-market food to suck so badly.
Yes, I know that many people seem to acquire a taste for it in childhood, and then are unable to kick the addiction to the endorphin rush that follows from a big hit of fat, sugar and salt, but a societally-sanctioned drug addiction which leads to obesity hardly seems like the sort of thing which makes democracy great.
Perhaps the idea is to be able to squash enemies merely by sitting on them...
Uh, because there's probably, like, 57 trillion droids in the galaxy, 2 billion of which look like the R2 model?
- "How can the Emperor dissolve the Senate? Didn't he destroy it trying to kill Yoda?"
Well, he busted up the joint a bit.
"Why don't those ships need Hyperspace rings?"
Advancements in technology spun off from Project Death Star.
- "So, does this mean that R2-D2 is really the main character in Star Wars?"
Actually, R2D2 is the Machiavellian master behind the whole mess, ppulling the strings on Sith and Jedi alike.
So what's the big revelation here? There's a disconnect between the prequels and originals? Wow. That's for that scoop, there, Kolchak.
This is one of the classic arguments against democratic selection of rulers: you're free to pick inept ones.
... when one branch attempts to gain power over the other -- or more generally, the popular preference for the security of authoritarian leadership as an escape from the responsibilities and dangers of freedom.
In an authoritarian order, it's more important to have leaders with superior skills & knowledge (i.e. knowledge is closed to a select elite).
In a modern democratic order, it's assumed that everyone pretty much is equally open to fault, and that no one truly has superior knowledge (i.e. knowledge is open to all and transitory).
The Star Wars model seemed to be a unique take on the checks & balances of most political systems -- i.e. the democratic legislative branch (republican senate) vs. the authoritarian judiciary (Jedi). The story highlights the problems that occur in political crisis
-Stu
And as if Lucas was leaching asimov... The robot is the clue and the true adversary of palpatine. R2 knows all and is always the one to initiate the important plot moves. R2 is obviously far far smarter than most of the biological lifeforms, not to mention any other artificial lifeform encountered in the whole series.
I suggest that the whole dang plot revolves around the little bugger. I further suggest that R2 serves as the full backup of Jedi Council knowledge and that is why he knows everything... The force flows strongly in this one...
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
I think it's "Startide Rising" in English.
It's been on my reading list, but I've only gotten the plot synopsis from a friend thus far, so I suppose I was speaking without any authority there. Which you'd think I'd know better than to do.
I despair of even a 250 page short novel being made well into a film. Everything has to be cut out; movies tell us the feeling, not the story. It's a much vaguer medium in some ways. I'm thinking of "Starship Troopers" here.
I suppose the problem is that I can't think of a movie that had the requisite KABAM BOOM and still made an interestingly twisty plot.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
How many of you out there can name the exact make and model of the toaster you had growing up, or perhaps your stove?
Because for one thing, R2-D2 was not even Obi-Wans, and for another he was not much more than an appliance to Obi-Wan (who never showed much love of mechanical things anyway and thus would have no attachment to help remember).
I really don't get why Obi-Wan should have any particular memory of someone else's droid from 20 years ago, or why Ownen Lars would remember the exact designation for some runaway protocol droid his father had twenty-two years back either. R2 of course knows Obi-Wan but that's why he sets out directly to seek him at every opportunity. He knows what he's looking for.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Obi-Wan never had a particular love of technology anyway. So he would have little attachment to a droid that was not in fact even his own. Why then 20 years later would he even remember the model number of Anakins R2 unit? There's a lot of stuff that happened 20 years ago I can't remember without a lot of jogging.
That's the explanation I favor, that a droid is just a droid to Obi-Wan and he simply doesn't remember nor does it matter.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
my wife completely missed 4-5-6 .....
so it was actually fun to watch the whole story one after each other.....
also doing that, makes a lot different experience/perception of the last 3 episodes, that I saw 10+ times a piece
So, which do you prefer? :)
A recent poll of humans found they gave either these two answers:
1.) If I am in charge, then a dictatorship.
2.) If not, then democracy is fine.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
This is neither here nor there, but I found this chick on LJ, and I'd wax that ass at least 40 times a day if she was close and didn't have a boyfriend who might kick my ass. She tolerated Star Wars and has nice boobs. http://www.livejournal.com/users/starswillfollow/5 8845.html
Check her out, seriously.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/starswillfollow/5 5813.html
Are you a U.S. citizen ?
Uh, thanks for that clarification. Ass.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Stupid liberal! Alderaan had weapons of mass destruction; the Death Star, no, wait, Freedom Star, was protecting your precious, delicious civil liberties! Support our Stormtroopers! We can't let the Wookies use our own freedoms against us!
You're more then welcome, idiotic buffoon.
You have to be a jaded adult to watch star wars. A seven year old will see all the inconsistencies.
I think it showed up twice in EP 3: once when C-3P0 said it, and once (I think) when they left R2 alone in the hangar bay of Grievous' flagship... he whistled something, and I firmly believe that what was behind that whistle was the line in question.
Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
Actually Obiwan says it while they're flying their ships around in that first battle.
It's very likley that 3P0 said it, but he's ALWAYS saying stuff like that. "We're Doomed!" etc.
This is ridiculous. Slashdot is telling me it hasn't been two minutes since my last comment posting. Like that even has anything to do with anything. This is an entirely different topic.
I remember seeing an interview with Lucas (I believe it was one of the pre-show interviews with Leonard Maltin on the THX-remastered VHSs) where he admitted that his original grand scheme was to write a 9-part epic where the only common characters were two robots. This lends support to that theory, not quite R2 as a demigod, but maybe more of a narrator. R2 is the one being to make it through the rise, the climax, and, presumably, the decline of the Empire with his life and memory intact. He's the only being qualified to give an eyewitness account.
the (current) European way is:
- see horror, consider long (too long) in an open discussion, if to intervene, ask americans for help and let them bomb, clean up and pay for many years
the current u.s. way is:
- oligarchy decides about protecting their interests (politically and financially), president becomes "commander in chief", everybody starts to "support our troups", war is won, dying starts, at some point europeans/uno have to step in to clean up and pay for many years, even if not supporting the war...
considering the current situation(s), i rather prefer the EU model... but then, i am an http://www.oldeuropean.net/.
How many of you have heard of a "Z3?" If the VIN number happened to be 000000000000000001 don't you think that'd stick in your mind?
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Do you have what it takes to be the writer/director of a major science fiction movie? Take this quiz to find out:
1) During a breath-taking but pointless introductory space battle scene one of your film's protagonists' space ships is set upon by parasitic robots, do you:
a. Have the character use his mysterious "force" to throw the boarders from his ship?
b. Have the character's wing man, who also has mysterious "force" powers, throw the boarders from the ship?
c. Have the character's wing man crash their ships together in order to smash those robots real good?
2) Your film's protagonists have finally boarded the enemy space cruiser and are searching for a hostage to rescue. The cruiser is over-run with enemy battle robots (droids) with orders to shoot to kill. When your droids manage to completely surprise and "get the drop on" your protagonists do you:
a. Allow the droids to use their superior electronic reflexes to fill the protagonists full of laser holes thereby aborting a bad movie before it really starts?
b. Introduce a bit of "deus ex machine" and have the droids inexplicably reprogram themselves from shoot-on-sight mode to give-stupid-warning-and-then-stand-by-passively-an d-die mode?
3) Your leading man returns home from a hard day fighting droids to learn that his secret wife is pregnant, do you:
a. Use the opportunity to introduce conflict between the characters and present a weakness to the protagonist's foes thereby creating fertile ground for further character development?
b. Pretty much ignore the pregnancy itself as a significant plot device with major ramifications for your characters and never revisit the topic again until it's time for the birth?
4) You've managed to get one of your protagonists involved in a completely pointless sub-plot. After using the "force" to smash his opponents with some of the local scenery, the protagonist must fight the level "boss" who can simultaneously wield four deadly "light sabers." Do you have your protagonist:
a. Use the "force" to rip the arms off the "boss" and cut the boss to ribbons with his own light sabers?
b. Hold the "boss" in place with the "force" and use the "force" to pick up a near by space ship and smash the "boss" repeatedly with the improvised cudgel?
c. Use the "force" to bounce the "boss" around like a high tech basketball until he comes apart at the seams?
d. Use the "force" to rip the beating heart from the "boss" in a manner reminiscent of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom?
e. Engage in a pointless light-saber duel that culminates in a fist fight and terminates with a simple shot from a blaster while totally ignoring the character's innate abilities.
5) At some point in your film you need to turn your protagonist from good to evil. Coincidently, the wife of your protagonist very badly needs to die before the next film. Do you:
a. Allow your ultimate bad guy to hatch an evil plot to kill the protagonist's wife and blame it on the "good guys" thereby simultaneously providing the perfect reason for the protagonist to turn on the "good guys" as well as necessarily eliminating a character to advance the plot.
b. Allow the protagonist to fail while trying to do the right thing and use his failure to do good as the impetus to commit an evil murderous killing spree including hacking up a bunch of seemingly defenseless children and then just have the wife, a central character in this film and two previous films, simply decide to quit living in the last few minutes of the film?
6) You've got a great segment of film that does a wonderful job of showcasing the wizardry of your computer animation department. Unfortunately it's also completely pointless and does nothing to adva
On the other hand, how many people would have actually looked at the VIN on a toaster? :-)
But Z3 sounds like it might indeed have been a memorable toaster.. Unless that was an analogy? I don't think R2 was the first, unlike C3-PO.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley