Your walmart example couldn't be more dead on. My father, who's a successful lawyer (yeah I know) and someone with a VERY firm grasp of economics, money, and business in general sat there with a blank stare as my mother and I tried to explain how while Walmart may have low prices, in the long run they are hurting everybody. No matter what we said, he just kept saying that they had low prices. I gave up from frustration.
"That definition sounds a lot like "marketing speak" - as if marketeers defined themselves to paint a positive image. Now, that's not their style, is it?
The fact is most marketing will create the desire or perceived need for the product and once this has been achieved the company moves in to fulfil requirements."
I would tell you that every industry has its jargon, anybody in a technical field should know this. However, there is really no "marketing speak" in that definition. Its pretty basic english so I fail to see the problem you're having with it. There is no painting a positive image in that definition. Its a definition, it is neutral. However, your statement was not neutral. "I'm finding it hard to think of examples that contradict this - all that springs to mind is toy commercials, coca-cola shorts, Microsoft ads, all of which (from my perspective) try to convince me something is missing from my life - that I will never acieve my objectives and be fulfilled if I don't buy these products."
Some advertising does this, however you really need to realize that marketing is a much bigger concept than you seem to think it is. And just because certain companies advertise in certain ways you don't approve of doesn't make marketing "evil".
"My own definition of marketing, which is a part of my overall bullshit filter, is "To create a false desire and then feed it with the end result of benefitting the supplier rather than the consumer"
And this is why I knew it was pointless to give you the real definition. You already have your own, and you seem to refuse to accept that there is a REAL definition of it, and it happens to conflict with your perceived image that all marketing is unethical. Having a bullshit filter is fine. It is necessary to sift through the messages that some unethical companies may try to send you. However you would be wrong to think that marketing itself exists to try to sell you things you don't need. If that is what you think it does, fine, I really could care less at this point. You seem incapable of being reasoned with even when presented with a cold hard definition, which you inflated to be something it wasn't in a most trollish fashion. Enjoy your paranoid life.
"Marketing - The process of planning and executing the conception, pricing, promotion, and distribution of goods, services, and ideas to create exchanges that satisfy individual and organisation objectives."
So is the AIAA (Architectual Industry Association of America) going to start suing people once these huge 3D fabricators are cheap enough and people start sharing blueprints on Kazaa?
This doesn't relate to Shakespeare, but it DOES relate to the social network phenomenon, so this isn't offtopic.
One of the things being worked on now is software which can analyze social networks and turn it into useful data for PR people and advertisers who can use it for viral marketing. Viral marketing is basically getting people to hear about your product by word of mouth. It is incredibly effective because of the trust people have in each other. Be afraid, be very afraid.
"But I really don't see what's worth the fuss about them, because they aren't exactly incorporating ground-breaking technologies, stunning visualizations nor original and efficient business plans. "
They can be very helpful for getting you laid, and you can arrange it all from the comfort of your computer chair. Now do you understand what all the fuss is about?
I think you misunderstood what my point was. My point was that engineers in general tend to lack proper communication skills. I will clarify that I am in marketing/advertising and not management.
" If I'm wrong, simply apply this to marketing: most marketers and managers are equal in the level of incompetence displayed when it comes to the logic of any technical request, they're just incompetent in different ways.
And this sums up my point. Are knowledge base is centered on the business aspect of things, yours is on the technical end. Just as we do not expect you to understand in detail how the business end of things work, you should not expect us to know all the technical details of something.
"and the problem here is that they don't learn to talk DOWN to you? The problem isn't that you don't learn the basic theory behind whatever the engineer is bringing you, it's that the engineer hasn't dumbed it down which, "
No, the problem is that they cannot effectively communicate an idea on any level in a proper manner, as exemplified by the tone of your post. If you spoke like this at work, it would be a damned good way to get fired because you should not speak that way to co-workers, regardless of their position. As a side note, I pride myself on being a geek. I DO take the time to try to learn the technical things, and I always make sure I have at least a basic understanding of what I'm working on. But you need to understand that my job is to focus on other areas, not handle the technical side, otherwise I'd be an engineer.
"Here's another thought for your poor, haggard business brain to try and comprehend: if your engineers need to learn better communications skills, when is the last time YOU, the person in charge of MANAGING these people, bothered to send them to a class regarding business communication that you KNEW was relevant and of a high enough quality to make a difference (in other words you sent them to an actual CLASS, you didn't send them to a two hour luncheon in the conference room of the local Best Western)?"
I'm not a manager, so I've never been in a position to do this. However, I have taken measures to widen my grasp of technical things, what is preventing you from developing these skills yourself? Or is it that you need someone to make you do it because you refuse to take measures to improve your social skills on your own?
The first sentence of the paragraph I just quoted again shows that you do not really understand how to communicate effectively. Insults get you nowhere in business. You've done quite a nice job of proving that technical people often do not understand how to have a simple discussion. You seem to think that technical knowledge far outranks business knowledge in importance. Let me tell you something, the product that engineers create would not sell if it were not for marketing/advertising. Period. There are also many things that us business people could mock you techies for, but I personally refrain because I try not to judge a person on their lack of a certain skillset but rather on what type of person they are. And as a person, you seem to be a very hostile, and negative individual who refuses to accept that different people have different skills and that they all need to work together to make things work.
Ok, so we all know that trash in space is going to be a growing problem as we continue to reach out to the stars. Will we be able to get laws in place saying you can't litter, and this is considered littering? Or once we've got tons of space stations and every day space travel, is advertising in space going to just become as common as billboards while you drive?
I think something needs to be said about this. Every time a story like this pops up, there's always someone who posts this, and there's always tons of people who lump every marketing moron who comes up with one of these stupid ideas with everybody else in marketing.
NOT EVERYBODY IN MARKETING/ADVERTISING IS DUMB/UNETHICAL/EVIL!
Just like any other industry, there are sleazebags and scum. There are PLENTY of people in marketing/advertising that respect the people they target, and try to actually do a good job and have a system of ethics they go by. If I ever had a client ask about "advertising in space" I would tell him flat out that it is the quickest way to alienate a large number of people and that the sales he MIGHT get from it would in no way be worth the bad PR.
Seriously, its fine if you want to call 'em as you see 'em, but for the love of god stop assuming all marketing/advertising people are the devil. For example, I'm in the industry, I'm a huge geek, I'm a gamer, I'm a huge privacy advocate, etc.
You know, as someone from the business end of things, perhaps we do have some morons who can't listen to reason, but it really wouldn't hurt if the engineers could develop the communication skills to convey this message to the higher ups. Your post just proves my point.
" It is completly possible for windows to have 100%, while Real has 100%, and Quicktime again has 100%, that would mean every client machine has all three players installed. If that is the case who has 'controled' the market?"
The player which is more frequently used above the others. And if you think they don't know the numbers behind this you're dead wrong. What do you think all those little "call home" connections are for?
"They also debued an audio-queued version of Quake several years ago at the monthly Boston Post Mortem, but have yet to release it to the general public."
What do you do? Move the mouse around until you hear a sound cue? Sniping has to be a BITCH with that.
I know this is humor, but if the reaction to Eminem by angry mothers and religious people everywhere is anything to go by, you can sure as hell bet they'll be blaming it on the audio games.
It USED to be very efficient. While it still may be efficient because of how little it costs....things are changing. Clickthru rates are PLUMMETING! So if it IS still efficient, it won't be for long.
Ok, I'll start it, feel free to add on. Porn has already led the way for print, VHS, the telephone, and the internet. Where are they going to lead us next? The following are some areas I think will be thrust into the mainstream (no pun intended) thanks to pr0n:
-Androids -True virtual reality -Smell-o-vision/Taste-o-vision -Small, cheap personal video players -Stain proof clothing -Genetics
"Okay, I'm also being touch-and-cheek but I think the Rule of Porn mostly works. Can you use Google for porn? Yep, must be a good technology. Can you use faster Internet access for porn? Yep... and so on."
I think I found an exception. Windows Media Player.
" This means that the adult entertainment industry and other fast-paced private industries have supplanted the military as a driver for leading-edge tech. "
I think it would be more accurate to say that the military is still the leader in DEVELOPING such technology, while the porn industry is the leader of finding innovative uses for such technology. The porn industry didn't invent the VCR or the net, they just figured out some awesome ways to use it.
So is there a chance then that they might also be the first to realize how effective it ISN'T? Oh how I long for the day when the porn industry treats its customers and potential customers it advertises to with more respect than most corporations.
So here's an awkward question. How does one become an adult webmaster. I mean, aside from making a webpage and setting up the merchant stuff. Do you actually do shoots of the girls? Or do you just buy them from stock image porn dealer? The reason I ask is that I've seen many girls passed off as amateurs that are obviously not that I've seen all over the place on different sites, with different names. I'm really curious how that works. Also, how much money are we talking here? 6 figures? Upper 5 figures? Are there um...."fringe benefits"? I've searched around and have yet to find any kind of personal accounts of people who run these websites, but I am very interested in it.
"Doesn't take much time to learn how to spawn camp an un-cappable flag does it?"
Wow, what an incredibly ignorant trollish comment. You seem to not be interested in intelligent discussion so I shall simply say that I don't spawn camp an un-cappable flag unless all other flags are captured, and the server rules allow it. You assume because I've stated I'm a cheater at some games, and skillful at others, that I must use cheap tactics to be skillful. You are quite wrong. I can rush in with an assault rifle with the best of em, I can shoot anybody out of the sky (i'm a dogfighter first and foremost) and I can snipe someone from across wake island at the North Base while running forward while they're sliding down the hill near the def gun at the airfield and hit them in the head.
There really is not point to your comment other than to make your pointless snide remark. Frankly, I know I have skill in that game, and your childish comment does nothing to make me doubt my skill.
"I believe there are more people like me out there who want to listen to their music, without feeling guilty. Why is there no one meeting this demand? "
Ok....so nobody is meeting this demand. I have two suggestions. Either try to start such a service that DOES meet those demands, and hopefully profit off it while you get your music fix, or just go ahead and break some laws. How can you feel guilty if they offer you no legal option for getting your music this way? You really have no alternative, so there is no reason to feel guilty, especially after you have decided you want to do things legally, and they have failed to provide you with a way to do so.
Before I get people giving me arguments about things like "well, I wanted them to give me a way to smoke pot legally, but they failed to provide me a way to do so", I would just like to state that this isn't an issue about whether you can use something or not, this is a format issue and a license issue, which is quite different.
Slashdot Mirror
"That definition sounds a lot like "marketing speak" - as if marketeers defined themselves to paint a positive image. Now, that's not their style, is it? The fact is most marketing will create the desire or perceived need for the product and once this has been achieved the company moves in to fulfil requirements."
I would tell you that every industry has its jargon, anybody in a technical field should know this. However, there is really no "marketing speak" in that definition. Its pretty basic english so I fail to see the problem you're having with it. There is no painting a positive image in that definition. Its a definition, it is neutral. However, your statement was not neutral. "I'm finding it hard to think of examples that contradict this - all that springs to mind is toy commercials, coca-cola shorts, Microsoft ads, all of which (from my perspective) try to convince me something is missing from my life - that I will never acieve my objectives and be fulfilled if I don't buy these products."
Some advertising does this, however you really need to realize that marketing is a much bigger concept than you seem to think it is. And just because certain companies advertise in certain ways you don't approve of doesn't make marketing "evil".
"My own definition of marketing, which is a part of my overall bullshit filter, is "To create a false desire and then feed it with the end result of benefitting the supplier rather than the consumer"
And this is why I knew it was pointless to give you the real definition. You already have your own, and you seem to refuse to accept that there is a REAL definition of it, and it happens to conflict with your perceived image that all marketing is unethical. Having a bullshit filter is fine. It is necessary to sift through the messages that some unethical companies may try to send you. However you would be wrong to think that marketing itself exists to try to sell you things you don't need. If that is what you think it does, fine, I really could care less at this point. You seem incapable of being reasoned with even when presented with a cold hard definition, which you inflated to be something it wasn't in a most trollish fashion. Enjoy your paranoid life.
"Marketing - The process of planning and executing the conception, pricing, promotion, and distribution of goods, services, and ideas to create exchanges that satisfy individual and organisation objectives."
Shows how wrong assumptions can be.
One of the things being worked on now is software which can analyze social networks and turn it into useful data for PR people and advertisers who can use it for viral marketing. Viral marketing is basically getting people to hear about your product by word of mouth. It is incredibly effective because of the trust people have in each other. Be afraid, be very afraid.
They can be very helpful for getting you laid, and you can arrange it all from the comfort of your computer chair. Now do you understand what all the fuss is about?
" If I'm wrong, simply apply this to marketing: most marketers and managers are equal in the level of incompetence displayed when it comes to the logic of any technical request, they're just incompetent in different ways.
And this sums up my point. Are knowledge base is centered on the business aspect of things, yours is on the technical end. Just as we do not expect you to understand in detail how the business end of things work, you should not expect us to know all the technical details of something.
"and the problem here is that they don't learn to talk DOWN to you? The problem isn't that you don't learn the basic theory behind whatever the engineer is bringing you, it's that the engineer hasn't dumbed it down which, "
No, the problem is that they cannot effectively communicate an idea on any level in a proper manner, as exemplified by the tone of your post. If you spoke like this at work, it would be a damned good way to get fired because you should not speak that way to co-workers, regardless of their position. As a side note, I pride myself on being a geek. I DO take the time to try to learn the technical things, and I always make sure I have at least a basic understanding of what I'm working on. But you need to understand that my job is to focus on other areas, not handle the technical side, otherwise I'd be an engineer.
"Here's another thought for your poor, haggard business brain to try and comprehend: if your engineers need to learn better communications skills, when is the last time YOU, the person in charge of MANAGING these people, bothered to send them to a class regarding business communication that you KNEW was relevant and of a high enough quality to make a difference (in other words you sent them to an actual CLASS, you didn't send them to a two hour luncheon in the conference room of the local Best Western)?"
I'm not a manager, so I've never been in a position to do this. However, I have taken measures to widen my grasp of technical things, what is preventing you from developing these skills yourself? Or is it that you need someone to make you do it because you refuse to take measures to improve your social skills on your own?
The first sentence of the paragraph I just quoted again shows that you do not really understand how to communicate effectively. Insults get you nowhere in business. You've done quite a nice job of proving that technical people often do not understand how to have a simple discussion. You seem to think that technical knowledge far outranks business knowledge in importance. Let me tell you something, the product that engineers create would not sell if it were not for marketing/advertising. Period. There are also many things that us business people could mock you techies for, but I personally refrain because I try not to judge a person on their lack of a certain skillset but rather on what type of person they are. And as a person, you seem to be a very hostile, and negative individual who refuses to accept that different people have different skills and that they all need to work together to make things work.
NOT EVERYBODY IN MARKETING/ADVERTISING IS DUMB/UNETHICAL/EVIL!
Just like any other industry, there are sleazebags and scum. There are PLENTY of people in marketing/advertising that respect the people they target, and try to actually do a good job and have a system of ethics they go by. If I ever had a client ask about "advertising in space" I would tell him flat out that it is the quickest way to alienate a large number of people and that the sales he MIGHT get from it would in no way be worth the bad PR.
Seriously, its fine if you want to call 'em as you see 'em, but for the love of god stop assuming all marketing/advertising people are the devil. For example, I'm in the industry, I'm a huge geek, I'm a gamer, I'm a huge privacy advocate, etc.
A phonebook and a baseball bat?
The player which is more frequently used above the others. And if you think they don't know the numbers behind this you're dead wrong. What do you think all those little "call home" connections are for?
So....Quicktime then?
I'm sighted you insensitive clod!
What do you do? Move the mouse around until you hear a sound cue? Sniping has to be a BITCH with that.
-Androids
-True virtual reality
-Smell-o-vision/Taste-o-vision
-Small, cheap personal video players
-Stain proof clothing
-Genetics
I think I found an exception. Windows Media Player.
I think it would be more accurate to say that the military is still the leader in DEVELOPING such technology, while the porn industry is the leader of finding innovative uses for such technology. The porn industry didn't invent the VCR or the net, they just figured out some awesome ways to use it.
Wow, what an incredibly ignorant trollish comment. You seem to not be interested in intelligent discussion so I shall simply say that I don't spawn camp an un-cappable flag unless all other flags are captured, and the server rules allow it. You assume because I've stated I'm a cheater at some games, and skillful at others, that I must use cheap tactics to be skillful. You are quite wrong. I can rush in with an assault rifle with the best of em, I can shoot anybody out of the sky (i'm a dogfighter first and foremost) and I can snipe someone from across wake island at the North Base while running forward while they're sliding down the hill near the def gun at the airfield and hit them in the head.
There really is not point to your comment other than to make your pointless snide remark. Frankly, I know I have skill in that game, and your childish comment does nothing to make me doubt my skill.
Ok....so nobody is meeting this demand. I have two suggestions. Either try to start such a service that DOES meet those demands, and hopefully profit off it while you get your music fix, or just go ahead and break some laws. How can you feel guilty if they offer you no legal option for getting your music this way? You really have no alternative, so there is no reason to feel guilty, especially after you have decided you want to do things legally, and they have failed to provide you with a way to do so.
Before I get people giving me arguments about things like "well, I wanted them to give me a way to smoke pot legally, but they failed to provide me a way to do so", I would just like to state that this isn't an issue about whether you can use something or not, this is a format issue and a license issue, which is quite different.