Re:What OSS needs from wall street....
on
Wall Street Meat
·
· Score: 1
recursion and determinism are your downfall however
So the AI machine somehow predicts stock prices? Does it predict against 'fundamentals' (published details of the company, expected news, etc?) to get a long term value or does it try to bet against other's expectations?
Then, closed or open source, why not use another AI program to bet against that, which in turn manipulates stock prices which the first bets against thus manipulating them more.
It seems a bit chaotic. Maybe you'll get a nash equilibrium, but the scenarios are so diverse and the players so many, you will get many mixed-equilibrium.
Lots of mixed equilibrium? A bit like now, then something stochastic (at least effectively stochastic in the model used) comes along and screws everyone.
Technology can enhance, but remember short term prices are bets against one another, long term bets are bets against the expected but unknown. The long term can be distorted against persistent optimism (as in the last 20 years, even today's prices).
Flare is what's needed, flare, and a neural net or AI method will forever be a bit stuck against the human irrationality, IMHO.
Yes, my entire company is based on WinNT! I was amazed when I joined, but what the hell, it runs office, some Excel macros, Stata, email and web. These days we're moving to document management and content management systems, but they all integrate fine. Bloomberg is on seperate consols.
Fact is, most corporates need little more than an office suite with some bells and whistles. NT is perfect for that, any change would have to be a long lasting one M$ trying to impose their licencing as outined earlier.
> "Just like if I buy a stock or make deal, and then make money off of it, someone ELSE loses money."
They do not lose money! Why do they lose money? They sold it and made money at a level they were happy with. You bought it and later sold it at a level you were happy with.
No one loses 'money' - each buys and sells at a level that satisfies their risk tolerance. Do you think there is a fixed amount of money in the world? Afraid not.
Money:
Please forgive me as i rip your pathetic argument to shreds... consider a closed single currency economy...
Is cash money? OK, so I put cash in my bank. They bank don't keep it all in the tills, they lend it out. They reserve only an expected probability that I'll want to withdraw it. As they lend it out, people spend it. The people who sell goods recieve they money so deposit a proportion in the bank... this is then lent out agan ad nausium. This is a money multiplier. The amount of money changes as the amount banks or individuals want to kepp as cash reserves changes.
Imagine the bank or individual invests in shares. Shares increase in value, money stock goes up (shares could be sold for cash). Shares falls, money is lost. No one 'wins' while another 'loses'. That is pure bull.
And remember this economy is closed from the outside world or other currencies.
Money is created and destroyed. It doesn't necessarily benefit others.
Now foreign trade:
Imagine a US worker could produce 100 chips or 10 TV program an hour. An American will work for $10 an hour. One Indian worker could produce 50 chips or 2 TV programs an hour. An Indian worker will work for $2.5 an hour.
Not, the cost of 10 chips is $1 in America or £0.5 in India. Whoa! Produce the chips in India dude!!! Then us American can buy them cheaper! But wait, us American can best produce TV programs, as we can make 1 for $1 but the Indians need $5 to make one program. So, lets make all the programs in the US! Cool!
Now us American have learnt to do something more cheaply, the old things we did can be moved overseas and both us and the Indians can make more money!
This is an example of absolute porductivity advantage. Next weeks Economics 101 can be about relative productive advantage, showing how, even though one country may be cheaper at producing both products, the other country still makes money from them (and no, it is a fair-and-square method, it is not invading and stealing their oil by implanting US corporations).
End of rant, huh? Look, you are just like I was 15 years ago, politically and philosophically speaking. But you are stupid and ignorant. But don't worry. That is a disease of youth....
So, you became bitter and cynical because your stable life was taken away?
Your previous life only so existed because others paid for your products.
I live in a land of freedom and opportunity. A land built on enterprise, innovation and the success of a good idea. As much as corporates want to entrap those ideas, I will never bow to blaming others taking something away from me.
Because I am an individual. An intelligent (>99.5th percentile of IQ last time I did the test, but I do not believe in IQ as a concept of intelligence, least determination of future), I am creative. I create success, I create value. Anyone can if they are truely open and willing. No one needs to blame others for their lack of success.
Call it idealistic? Better I live in an idealistic world than a cynical one.
IMHO nothing too bad with IPv4 and NAT... if it was implemted properly.
Instead whole blocks are hoarded and even using NAT becomes hard.
What about dynamic IP? So IPv4 or IPv6 as the base, but a free adotion of freely routable/accessable levels below this? I can imagine if I get the 'dream' of a directly accessably washing machine, fridge, curtains, etc etc etc I'll need a whole lot more exernally accessable addresses.
So I think: either a standard port routin for each appliance under IPv6 or a dynamic range under the UPv6 range.
And if you have made sure every job goes to an American since independence goes to an American we'd still have Americans doing menial jobs which have been outsourced to:
1. Machines (hang the engineers?)
2. Overseas (if someon in a third world country wants to do a low level job, let them, I'll do something more interesting/valuable).
If this were the yountry YOU propose, we'd have no economic growth, would still be living in wooden shacks, creating our own products which would be better produced outside.
Allow me to use CAPS because you seem somewhat thick:
SENDING LOW VALUE JOBS OVERSEAS MEANS WE CAN DO MORE VALUEABLE JOBS. IF THEY ARE STEALING FROM US, WE WILL HAVE NO INCOME SO CANNOT PAY.
Take you half-ass degree anywhere you like. Infact, if you're against outsourcing, LEAVE THE US. BECAUSE THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE PRINCIPAL OF FREE CHANCE BETWEEN ALL. Most of us are immigrants, descended from those that saw a good chance. WHAT MADE US [the parent] BECOME SO SMALL MINDED?
If you want the same job for ever, fine. Do it forever, never pay a low price for goods, never take a pay rise. Fine.
"How much of the stuff you buy says Made In USA on it these days?"
Yeah... I really want cheap plastic toys made in the US of A. Isn't the point of economic growth to mean the USA (and other 'rich' countires) make the complex expensive stuff, our workers are freed to make these 'value added' things by outsourcing cheap things to other countries.
I really don't mind call centres sourced from other countries... imagine if all Americans had to stitch your clothes instead of all those Mexicans!!!
Let me do a more valuable job.
The unemployed in the US are the lazy, stupid (neither which have any sympathy for) or unlukcky (who have fallen on har times and should be helped back on their feet).
Don't complain your server admin job has been sourced overseas. Accept lower pay or do something that takes some thinking.
"These are jobs that should be available to citizens of the U.S."
Why?
The thing is, 'sending jobs overseas' is seen as negative. Why is that? Why shpould they be saved for US citizens?
If I fixed your job (and, if extended to everyone then everyone's job) for life, you would get no productivity increases. You would therefore get no pay rises. Where are the increases in revenue for your job if everyone is like you?
Research would achieve nothing, as if everyone is fixed, we'll never have anyone to increase productivity.
So... if you don't want jobs sourced overseas, then equally expect no change in job, no productivity increases, no economic growth.
Do not earn more than your father... be condemned to a life of what has been achieved before.
The shame is, economists post Ricardp have realised... IF YOU OUTSOURCE YOUR JOB TO SOMEONE WHO CAN DO IT CHEAPER (not only increasing their standard of living) YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ELSE EVEN MORE PRODUCTIVE (unless you are a leech upon your workforce and refuse to change). This ACCOMPANIED WITH DISCOVERY (research) results in ECONOMIC GROWTH.
Sorry for so many caps... just ppl either don't understand basic common sense or are so lazy they want to preverse their present position without thinking al all.
Indeed. Buying/selling shares only reflects others' opinions about that company's prospects.
One must consider:
1. Why are they in a position to consider prospects? If they are educated, have some insight and idean, they probably do have a good idea.
2. Do they have any conflicting interests?
3. In the long run they will be shown out, almost. The short run can determine the long run (e.g., restrict capital raising thus preventing a company's growth), and the long run can never truely be achieved is perception stays out of line with reality.
Take the US stock markets. They are all (ovrall) over valued. Yet if that's what's people (or their pension funds) are prepared to pay, they will stay overvalued, forever, ceteris paribus. And overvalued companies can raise more money and employ more people in unproductive roles.
Exactly. The summary stated "outsourcing IT functions offshore".
And why not outsource offshore? If a product is homogenous enough to outsource, its up to the individual to use their privilaged position to create as unique and innovative product/service as possible instead of bitching their job is not protected (against others who could probably do it better).
Yeah, damn... The only thing this can be described as is Extreme Parody. However I fear it is not, hence my rebate:
" The American boy spends an extra 5 hours on volunteerism"
Hmmmm... nice sentiment.
"The Koreans laugh and snicker at how "stupid" that American boy is in high school"
Hmmmm... blatant flamebait. Certainly Koreans I know don't. Who here knows a Korean like that, opposed to supposing a Korean they've seen in the street thinks that? And what proportion of Koreans is that?
Perhaps American troops should stop raping underage Korean girls, running them over, abusing the public? Yes, the American army is a good idea. Pity about the rejects they get in the infantry. Still, they'll be the first to die, no worries then.
Yes, a compassionate nation is a good thing, agreed.
"One of them is kindness and compassion, which we actively foster"
Like killing 2000 civilians in the Iraqi war and not issueing any kind of appology or compensation. The media doctoring photographs of brutality to 'heroism'.
"Heck, we've got the Peace Corps"
Yeah, OK. The peace corps have never been employed to subvert socialist governments in Latin America have they?
"we note that more than 50% of Korean orphans in Korean orphanages are adopted by Westerners"
Who notes that? Who? Which survey? Well done anyone who does. But sadly they are far and few between.
Sad sad sad flamebaiting troll. Each and everyone of you articles.
Your utter complete incomprehension of the meaning of sarcasm notwithstanding, valid point, but, what is the point?
SO they can associate things? Is this not different to a unique key? Because they are associated with a physical object... typing in my password is a physical process converting a physical object/action into binary the computer understands. In what way is scanning an image which converts it to a binary stream different, other than more likely to have error?
Sounds like fancy sci-fi wrapping from a journalist who has missed the opportunity to think and perhaps present something more insightful.
The summary said "neither technology nor laws are yet capable of completely dealing with the plague".
The fact they discussed it means they recognise a problem. Technology or laws not yet capable of meeting it mean they now recognise a deficiency -- a deficiency needs a solution.
I hope they can divert resources to creating this solution. They need to throw rosources, legal and technological, and *WE* need to keep them aware (or indeed, make them more aware), so it doesn't slip down the government's priority list.
As for your hotmail address, I suggest you ditch hotmail. I did five years ago, and that was not soon enough.
Your daughter watches Toy Story 2 and Shrek multiple times a day?!?!?!
Shouldn't you provide something more challenging and stimulating? Encourage her to broaden her horizons???
If it sounds like I'm calling you a bad parent, that's because I am. How about taking her outside to play, or a walk, or read a book together, instead of posting to Slashdot.
Something that will help her develop, emotionally and intellectually.
In any WHSmith in a large station in London (UK), you can pick up with your purchase and walk out and put your payment in a plywood box.
Most ppl use this for papers, or occasionally papers and a drink. But there is no mechanical dispatch mechanism, just honesty.
The point being... the tradeoff against theft is less than the benefit of getting fast efficient customer service from honest customers. I think it took a lot of guts from management to accept this, but it works, and has been in place 3 years plus.
So, if record companies (or RIAA, etc) were able to monitor purchases and downloads (as the security guard at WHSmith does at some low sample rate) at the same time, I expect most consumers would be honest. This would mean hosting their own download service and monitoring it, as well as purchases.
Maybe an ideal solution, but an interesting one, that could be further extended with people leaving papers on trains etc.
Are you suggesting tatooing them? Tatoos can be forged v. v. easily and infringe them after thay have 'served their time' and deemed to have now 'paid for their crimes'.
Slashdot Mirror
recursion and determinism are your downfall however
So the AI machine somehow predicts stock prices? Does it predict against 'fundamentals' (published details of the company, expected news, etc?) to get a long term value or does it try to bet against other's expectations?
Then, closed or open source, why not use another AI program to bet against that, which in turn manipulates stock prices which the first bets against thus manipulating them more.
It seems a bit chaotic. Maybe you'll get a nash equilibrium, but the scenarios are so diverse and the players so many, you will get many mixed-equilibrium.
Lots of mixed equilibrium? A bit like now, then something stochastic (at least effectively stochastic in the model used) comes along and screws everyone.
Technology can enhance, but remember short term prices are bets against one another, long term bets are bets against the expected but unknown. The long term can be distorted against persistent optimism (as in the last 20 years, even today's prices).
Flare is what's needed, flare, and a neural net or AI method will forever be a bit stuck against the human irrationality, IMHO.
I am not a banana... I am a man.
...
6) ????
7) Profit!
lamo!
Yes, my entire company is based on WinNT! I was amazed when I joined, but what the hell, it runs office, some Excel macros, Stata, email and web. These days we're moving to document management and content management systems, but they all integrate fine. Bloomberg is on seperate consols.
Fact is, most corporates need little more than an office suite with some bells and whistles. NT is perfect for that, any change would have to be a long lasting one M$ trying to impose their licencing as outined earlier.
Yeah.... ...why can't they gt instant wireless... ... unless they die of starvation.
Fix the rice and corupt government in Laos... fix the wireless later guy.
> "Just like if I buy a stock or make deal, and then make money off of it, someone ELSE loses money."
They do not lose money! Why do they lose money? They sold it and made money at a level they were happy with. You bought it and later sold it at a level you were happy with.
No one loses 'money' - each buys and sells at a level that satisfies their risk tolerance. Do you think there is a fixed amount of money in the world? Afraid not.
Money:
Please forgive me as i rip your pathetic argument to shreds... consider a closed single currency economy...
Is cash money? OK, so I put cash in my bank. They bank don't keep it all in the tills, they lend it out. They reserve only an expected probability that I'll want to withdraw it. As they lend it out, people spend it. The people who sell goods recieve they money so deposit a proportion in the bank... this is then lent out agan ad nausium. This is a money multiplier. The amount of money changes as the amount banks or individuals want to kepp as cash reserves changes.
Imagine the bank or individual invests in shares. Shares increase in value, money stock goes up (shares could be sold for cash). Shares falls, money is lost. No one 'wins' while another 'loses'. That is pure bull.
And remember this economy is closed from the outside world or other currencies.
Money is created and destroyed. It doesn't necessarily benefit others.
Now foreign trade:
Imagine a US worker could produce 100 chips or 10 TV program an hour. An American will work for $10 an hour. One Indian worker could produce 50 chips or 2 TV programs an hour. An Indian worker will work for $2.5 an hour.
Not, the cost of 10 chips is $1 in America or £0.5 in India. Whoa! Produce the chips in India dude!!! Then us American can buy them cheaper! But wait, us American can best produce TV programs, as we can make 1 for $1 but the Indians need $5 to make one program. So, lets make all the programs in the US! Cool!
Now us American have learnt to do something more cheaply, the old things we did can be moved overseas and both us and the Indians can make more money!
This is an example of absolute porductivity advantage. Next weeks Economics 101 can be about relative productive advantage, showing how, even though one country may be cheaper at producing both products, the other country still makes money from them (and no, it is a fair-and-square method, it is not invading and stealing their oil by implanting US corporations).
End of rant, huh? Look, you are just like I was 15 years ago, politically and philosophically speaking. But you are stupid and ignorant. But don't worry. That is a disease of youth....
So, you became bitter and cynical because your stable life was taken away?
Your previous life only so existed because others paid for your products.
I live in a land of freedom and opportunity. A land built on enterprise, innovation and the success of a good idea. As much as corporates want to entrap those ideas, I will never bow to blaming others taking something away from me.
Because I am an individual. An intelligent (>99.5th percentile of IQ last time I did the test, but I do not believe in IQ as a concept of intelligence, least determination of future), I am creative. I create success, I create value. Anyone can if they are truely open and willing. No one needs to blame others for their lack of success.
Call it idealistic? Better I live in an idealistic world than a cynical one.
IMHO nothing too bad with IPv4 and NAT... if it was implemted properly.
Instead whole blocks are hoarded and even using NAT becomes hard.
What about dynamic IP? So IPv4 or IPv6 as the base, but a free adotion of freely routable/accessable levels below this? I can imagine if I get the 'dream' of a directly accessably washing machine, fridge, curtains, etc etc etc I'll need a whole lot more exernally accessable addresses.
So I think: either a standard port routin for each appliance under IPv6 or a dynamic range under the UPv6 range.
I think IPv6 only delays the problem.
Yes... you own this country.
And if you have made sure every job goes to an American since independence goes to an American we'd still have Americans doing menial jobs which have been outsourced to:
1. Machines (hang the engineers?)
2. Overseas (if someon in a third world country wants to do a low level job, let them, I'll do something more interesting/valuable).
If this were the yountry YOU propose, we'd have no economic growth, would still be living in wooden shacks, creating our own products which would be better produced outside.
Allow me to use CAPS because you seem somewhat thick:
SENDING LOW VALUE JOBS OVERSEAS MEANS WE CAN DO MORE VALUEABLE JOBS. IF THEY ARE STEALING FROM US, WE WILL HAVE NO INCOME SO CANNOT PAY.
Take you half-ass degree anywhere you like. Infact, if you're against outsourcing, LEAVE THE US. BECAUSE THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE PRINCIPAL OF FREE CHANCE BETWEEN ALL. Most of us are immigrants, descended from those that saw a good chance. WHAT MADE US [the parent] BECOME SO SMALL MINDED?
If you want the same job for ever, fine. Do it forever, never pay a low price for goods, never take a pay rise. Fine.
"How much of the stuff you buy says Made In USA on it these days?"
Yeah... I really want cheap plastic toys made in the US of A. Isn't the point of economic growth to mean the USA (and other 'rich' countires) make the complex expensive stuff, our workers are freed to make these 'value added' things by outsourcing cheap things to other countries.
I really don't mind call centres sourced from other countries... imagine if all Americans had to stitch your clothes instead of all those Mexicans!!!
Let me do a more valuable job.
The unemployed in the US are the lazy, stupid (neither which have any sympathy for) or unlukcky (who have fallen on har times and should be helped back on their feet).
Don't complain your server admin job has been sourced overseas. Accept lower pay or do something that takes some thinking.
And economic growth, I should have added, means more income FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.
"These are jobs that should be available to citizens of the U.S."
Why?
The thing is, 'sending jobs overseas' is seen as negative. Why is that? Why shpould they be saved for US citizens?
If I fixed your job (and, if extended to everyone then everyone's job) for life, you would get no productivity increases. You would therefore get no pay rises. Where are the increases in revenue for your job if everyone is like you?
Research would achieve nothing, as if everyone is fixed, we'll never have anyone to increase productivity.
So... if you don't want jobs sourced overseas, then equally expect no change in job, no productivity increases, no economic growth.
Do not earn more than your father... be condemned to a life of what has been achieved before.
The shame is, economists post Ricardp have realised... IF YOU OUTSOURCE YOUR JOB TO SOMEONE WHO CAN DO IT CHEAPER (not only increasing their standard of living) YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ELSE EVEN MORE PRODUCTIVE (unless you are a leech upon your workforce and refuse to change). This ACCOMPANIED WITH DISCOVERY (research) results in ECONOMIC GROWTH.
Sorry for so many caps... just ppl either don't understand basic common sense or are so lazy they want to preverse their present position without thinking al all.
Indeed. Buying/selling shares only reflects others' opinions about that company's prospects.
One must consider:
1. Why are they in a position to consider prospects? If they are educated, have some insight and idean, they probably do have a good idea.
2. Do they have any conflicting interests?
3. In the long run they will be shown out, almost. The short run can determine the long run (e.g., restrict capital raising thus preventing a company's growth), and the long run can never truely be achieved is perception stays out of line with reality.
Take the US stock markets. They are all (ovrall) over valued. Yet if that's what's people (or their pension funds) are prepared to pay, they will stay overvalued, forever, ceteris paribus. And overvalued companies can raise more money and employ more people in unproductive roles.
Exactly. The summary stated "outsourcing IT functions offshore".
And why not outsource offshore? If a product is homogenous enough to outsource, its up to the individual to use their privilaged position to create as unique and innovative product/service as possible instead of bitching their job is not protected (against others who could probably do it better).
Yeah, damn... The only thing this can be described as is Extreme Parody. However I fear it is not, hence my rebate:
" The American boy spends an extra 5 hours on volunteerism"
Hmmmm... nice sentiment.
"The Koreans laugh and snicker at how "stupid" that American boy is in high school"
Hmmmm... blatant flamebait. Certainly Koreans I know don't. Who here knows a Korean like that, opposed to supposing a Korean they've seen in the street thinks that? And what proportion of Koreans is that?
Perhaps American troops should stop raping underage Korean girls, running them over, abusing the public? Yes, the American army is a good idea. Pity about the rejects they get in the infantry. Still, they'll be the first to die, no worries then.
Yes, a compassionate nation is a good thing, agreed.
"One of them is kindness and compassion, which we actively foster"
Like killing 2000 civilians in the Iraqi war and not issueing any kind of appology or compensation. The media doctoring photographs of brutality to 'heroism'.
"Heck, we've got the Peace Corps"
Yeah, OK. The peace corps have never been employed to subvert socialist governments in Latin America have they?
"we note that more than 50% of Korean orphans in Korean orphanages are adopted by Westerners"
Who notes that? Who? Which survey? Well done anyone who does. But sadly they are far and few between.
Sad sad sad flamebaiting troll. Each and everyone of you articles.
For real, this is a big problem in French society.
Maybe Slashdot isn't the best forum though.
Redumdant yes. Falamebait no, because this is the truth and a very serious problem in Pairs.
Your utter complete incomprehension of the meaning of sarcasm notwithstanding, valid point, but, what is the point?
SO they can associate things? Is this not different to a unique key? Because they are associated with a physical object... typing in my password is a physical process converting a physical object/action into binary the computer understands. In what way is scanning an image which converts it to a binary stream different, other than more likely to have error?
Sounds like fancy sci-fi wrapping from a journalist who has missed the opportunity to think and perhaps present something more insightful.
damn, just when i barcoded daily instructions over my chest
The summary said "neither technology nor laws are yet capable of completely dealing with the plague".
The fact they discussed it means they recognise a problem. Technology or laws not yet capable of meeting it mean they now recognise a deficiency -- a deficiency needs a solution.
I hope they can divert resources to creating this solution. They need to throw rosources, legal and technological, and *WE* need to keep them aware (or indeed, make them more aware), so it doesn't slip down the government's priority list.
As for your hotmail address, I suggest you ditch hotmail. I did five years ago, and that was not soon enough.
Your daughter watches Toy Story 2 and Shrek multiple times a day?!?!?!
Shouldn't you provide something more challenging and stimulating? Encourage her to broaden her horizons???
If it sounds like I'm calling you a bad parent, that's because I am. How about taking her outside to play, or a walk, or read a book together, instead of posting to Slashdot.
Something that will help her develop, emotionally and intellectually.
what about the...
resource dump ?!?!?!
lamo!
But... they do...
In any WHSmith in a large station in London (UK), you can pick up with your purchase and walk out and put your payment in a plywood box.
Most ppl use this for papers, or occasionally papers and a drink. But there is no mechanical dispatch mechanism, just honesty.
The point being... the tradeoff against theft is less than the benefit of getting fast efficient customer service from honest customers. I think it took a lot of guts from management to accept this, but it works, and has been in place 3 years plus.
So, if record companies (or RIAA, etc) were able to monitor purchases and downloads (as the security guard at WHSmith does at some low sample rate) at the same time, I expect most consumers would be honest. This would mean hosting their own download service and monitoring it, as well as purchases.
Maybe an ideal solution, but an interesting one, that could be further extended with people leaving papers on trains etc.
+5 insightful
haha! thanx!
rehabilitated... many ppl know what it means but how many know what habilitation is in the first place?
Webster's suggests 'to entitle' as the closest interpretable meaning, which, as a habilitated citizen, I'm OK with.
Don't we aleady do that - by keeping records?
Are you suggesting tatooing them? Tatoos can be forged v. v. easily and infringe them after thay have 'served their time' and deemed to have now 'paid for their crimes'.