"Funny, because I remember buying thousands of PCs with IBM-DOS or OS/2 pre-installed on them in 1994. Prior to 1995, Microsoft didn't have a lock on the desktop."
Yes they [Microsoft] did. You don't think Microsoft didn't make money off IBM's PC-DOS or OS/2? Think again. Strike one.
In that time period, the only way you could get away with not paying the Microsoft tax (aside from pirating) was buying non PC hardware...that being an Apple Macintosh, an Amiga, or an Atari ST. I'm not counting NeXT or Sun hardware in that category because they weren't exactly considered PCs in that era...
"Microsoft won the desktop war by being better than the competition at providing what corporations are interested in - useable applications."
OS/2 ran Windows apps. Strike two.
"Give credit where it's due. Without Windows 95 we'd all be running OS/2 by now and the Internet wouldn't be nearly as accessible."
Credit is not due. Guess you've never heard of OS/2 Warp for PCs. And Macs could access the net without Microsoft's software. Lynx and Mosaic worked on Amigas and Atari STs, not to mention software like Stik and Cab. Strike three.
"BZZZZZT! Thanks for playing. Remember that your beloved Apple is now using a purchased OS, from Next!"
Completely different scenario. Apple may have acquired NeXT, but NeXT was founded by Jobs, so that was just Apple Computer v. 2.0. At least OS X recognizes that its origins come from BSD, whereas Microsoft again takes portions of BSD, hides it in Windows, and contributes nothing back (thanks to the marvelous BSD license).
That's like arguing that Apple ripped off the GUI (like Microsoft) from Xerox PARC, when in truth, Apple had a licensing agreement with Xerox, traded stock, and under Scully, almost acquired Xerox. Microsoft didn't do that, they just stole, or, "creatively acquired" if you prefer that term...just as they had stolen MS-DOS from Digital Research a few short years before.
Microsoft is not an innovative company technically speaking. They are only innovative in terms of their business practices and getting away with something even AT&T couldn't a decade before.
"when the PC first came out there were three operating systems available for it (PC/MS-DOS, CPM-86 and UCSD). IBM wanted the marketplace to decide which was the best one. Microsoft did not have any kind of leg up with the other two competitors initially"
Wrong. Microsoft did have a leg up. If the user wanted Digital Research's offering, it cost more than twice as much as IBM's rebadged version of MS-DOS (PC-DOS). Microsoft's MS-DOS, a rebranded version of QDOS, was a complete rip-off of Digital Research's C/PM. Gates screwed over his "friend" Gary Kendall in the process.
"When you live in a society that has lost all concept of manners (and don't say the South is still some shining example, because I just lived there for 3 years and it is becoming just as vapid and rude as any place else) something that basically enables people to be even bigger assholes in public is the last thing we need. Inevitably, you have soccer moms and ghetto thugs (or wannabes) blasting their conversations across the entire room, and for some reason they feel the need to shout even louder than they normally would on a cell phone. (another thing that drives me nuts)."
The correct term when referencing what you deed "rude" is "ghetto fabulous." Now, find the TPS Report cover for this memo.
"Why do people bother with this? Why don't they just call each other? It is bad enough when I have to listen to half of a conversation. Now I get to sit in a restaraunt, or other public place, and hear"
I absolutely hate the push-to-talk/walkie talkie Nextel and Sprint phones. It is turning all of their customers "ghetto fabulous" when it comes to public manners.
The walkie talkie users should get a clue and understand that the rest of us don't even want to hear ONE side of the conversation from them.
Instead of investigating steroids in professional baseball, perhaps Congress should pass a law banning such devices since they are public nuisances. Or at least restrict them to businesses.
Then again, shutting down Sprint PCS itself would deprive pimps, bangers and hoods of legitimately purchased mobile phones since they couldn't pass Cingular's rather restrictive credit checks.
"Unfortunately, I don't think Apple is going to have a choice in this matter. When the big media companies have seen TC and its "benefits" on the Wintel Vista boxes, they will demand it on Apple boxes. Since Apple doesn't currently have the *COMPUTER* marketshare to stand up to the MPAA/RIAA, on the COMPUTER (where video content will come), they will be unable to get any of the content that media companies will be comfortable releasing to a Trusted Vista box. Since Apple only has 5% market share, it won't hurt much to leave them out."
But Apple DOES have marketshare in the consumer market, which is what the MPAA/RIAA care about. From some reports, Apple has between 10% and 20% of the American consumer market. Its in corporate sales that Apple is pathetic at, and since those are the majority of computer sales, that's the reason why Apple is pegged at 4% of the total computer market in the U.S. and 2% worldwide.
"Keep in mind that the motherboard in the Developer Transition Platform is a very generic one, and could just as easily be a preexisting Intel motherboard that already includes TPM. Remember: everything in the Developer Transition Platform at present is generic Intel components. They don't support FireWire 800, Bluetooth, 802.11, and have a generic standard Intel BIOS. Does that imply shipping machines will be that way? No? Then neither does the inclusion of a TPM chip on this particular motherboard. There is precedent for Apple taking special care to disallow the spread of prerelease/developer software and hardware, while having no such equivalent restrictions in the final product"
And does anyone know for a given fact beyond the shadow of doubt that the MacIntel machines will be running traditional x86 PentiumIV/M/etc. chips and not something like the ItaniumII and successors?
"Even though the article says these are "test boxes" apple should see that wIthout DRM they would have the perfect weapon to gain market share. The difference between heavily restricted wintel boxes and non DRM Apples will be apparent even down to the level of J6P. Would this leave Apple as the only "General computer" left? A more accross the board move to Apple could even be a boon to linux as more people accept the fact that there are options to wintel"
Yeah, but Apple isn't concerned about making a "boon to Linux." The only way that would be profitable for Apple (ie. attracting Linux enthusiasts to buy Apple Macs instead of building/buying traditional Windows PCs from other manufacturers) is if somehow Apple can still command a 20% + profit on their machines. And even then, that would still be "robbing" Apple of further profits via OS X upgrades, and other value-added services like.Mac. The 20% + margin is going to be even more difficult to maintain since Apple is shifting to Intel x86 since its going to be a straight Ghz to Ghz comparison with Apple's operating system being the winning edge for those willing to pay a premium for the Apple experience.
And if the 20% margin cannot be maintained, you will see DRM in place on Apple machines because Apple will see Linux enthusiasts purchasing their hardware as non-contributory *bottom feeders* as how Microsoft views Linux enthusiasts who buy Xboxes but no games.
Now, to the DRM/loss of 20% margin caveat:
If Apple continues gaining military contracts (ie. the Navy contract they won but required Linux installed on the hardware) that is in tandem with Linux requirements, the DRM argument weakens.
Another issue is the ease of installing Microsoft Windows on the x86 Macs. Apple won't restrict that (but Microsoft might) and might even tout it in their advertising. There is a precident from the early video game industry. Coleco touted its Atari 2600 hardware emulator to coax the Atari 2600 owners to move up to the Colecovision instead (as well as new consumers entering the market but weary of buying non-Atari 2600 - the standard at the time - hardware) of buying the non-2600 compatible Atari 5200. Coleco never had an intention of selling many of the hardware adapters; it was merely a mindshare strategy to give the consumer a choice (or illusion of) when in reality, the consumer persuaded to buying the Colecovision most likely would spend their extra dollars buying Colecovision specific games and not the 2600 emulator.
"Seriously, I'm sure that there are thousands of people who would line up, despite that 10% chance of a disease that some of them will get anyway. I would. Go to Mars, keep working on cancer cure. Everybody wins.:-)"
Have the ship's computers crunch Folding@Home (through BOINC) during spare CPU time and every base is covered in the argument...:)
Although perhaps turning on SETI as the ship orbits above the Cydonia range might be more useful...:0
"And you've got to wonder about quotes like this: Others suggest more radical solutions might be needed. "Radiation exposure is certainly one of the major problems facing future interplanetary space travellers," says Murdoch Baxter, founding editor of the Journal of Environmental Radioactivity. "Unless we can develop instantaneous time and space transfer technologies like Dr Who's TARDIS.""
Obviously, it implies that there are Doctor Who fans amongst the scientific community. Well, that chap should know better. He should get to work on creating a working "Eye of Harmony" if he wants to harness the power necessary for TARDIS* travel.
Too bad he couldn't get The Doctor's title correct.
And the TARDIS isn't exactly a safe method of travel. In the 1996 telefilm, the Eye of Harmony ate the Doctor's arch nemesis known as The Master. And in the 2005 relaunch of the series, the TARDIS's Time Vortex Rotor (aka "the heart/soul of the TARDIS) empowered one member of the crew with deity/Dark Phoenix like powers and ultimately "killed" a very important character on the show.
"Atari 2600. 1977 price: $199.95 This is disputed - I and many others have seen boxes over the years with an original $249 price tag, and still more people remember seeing them in stores at that price. The general feeling now is that $249 was the initial price of this system, although actual MSRP is not so simple to just go back and look up. (The old Atari no longer exists, there was no WWW back then, and people's memories are not always accurate.)"
$250 it was in 1977. If memory serves me correctly, you can find a price quote of it in *Zap - The Rise & Fall of Atari* by Scott Cohen. An old Sears Wishbook catalog(s) should also be a good source to check.
As others have pointed out, the Atari 2600 (inflation adjusted) cost far more back in the early 80s than the upcoming Xbox 360 will at the end of this year.
Similarly, people are complaining about the price increase per title. Xbox360 titles will MSRP at $59.99 whereas the original Xbox titles MSRP at $49.99.
Yet, back in 1982, my copy of Pac-Man for the Atari 2600 retailed at Toys "R" Us for $49.99. According to the Inflation Calculator (www.westegg.com/inflation), the 1982 dollars for that title today would equal $101.41, which is definitely much more than $59.99.
Granted, people will argue over playability. Pac-Man on the 2600 did suck, but I do recall getting lots of gameplay out of that money. I hope the playability factor will be much more with the Xbox360's titles although I'm not holding my breath.
"I thought this had more to do with their agreement with McIntosh audio, where Apple agreed not to make audio equipment."
Nope, the agreement was with Apple Corps., aka Apple Records, the company owned by the Beatles.
McIntosh is now owned by Denon. Denon, which is 1/2 (or more) controlling interest in D&M Holdings, owns the remnants of ReplayTV, and also sold off Rio about a week ago.
"I figured that this was in the works. Apple working hard to beat up the Trolls out there. Macs are to expensive so they came up with the Mac-Mini, The processor is still not as fast as Intel so they switched to Intel. And the long only one button mouse troll is finally put to rest."
They are answering the trolls in increments. There are still plenty of things to troll about in Apple/Macintoshland and post here on Slashdot about, such as:
*No color screens in the iPod Minis yet (X-Mas time).
*No gapless audio playback on the iPod yet.
*No OGG/FLAC (and for sadists, WMA) support on the iPods.
*No video iPod.
*No iPod/iTunes phone yet (blame all).
*No new Newton or Apple branded PalmOS device or adding NewtonOS, OS X mini, or PalmOS to iPods.
*No TabletMac yet.
*No official iTunes/Quicktime release for Linux.
*No AAC+Fairplay licensing to other companies (as of yet) to make non Apple hardware compatible with the iTunes Music Store... (I'm talking Sony PSP, PalmOS devices, and TiVo).
*Still no physical eject button on the CD/DVD drives on the Macs.
*No headless Mac in the price range between the Mac Mini and the PowerMac.
*No off-the-shelf videocard support in PowerMacs (meaning we cannot buy a WindowsPC based videocard to escape the Mac videocard surcharge).
*No digital audio out on the Macs or decent digital audio chipset (thanks to the never-ending litigation between Apple Computer and Apple Corps). Feel free to correct me on this if I'm incorrect.
*Going with Intel over AMD on the x86 switch...:) (although I understand the reason).
There's still probably more to troll about than that, but my fingers are tired from typing...:)
"With an OS that doesn't suck, a sub $500 Mac, a move to x86, and a mulitbutton Apple mouse, will Apple reconsider other Sacred Cows like a 21st century Newton?"
Or Apple finally buying out TiVo (and ReplayTV's intellectual property from liquidation minded D&M Holdings)and bringing to market a TiVo DVR that takes advantage of integrating iTunes/iMovie/iPhoto along with dual tuners, H.264 native support, iSight support, CableCard 1.0 standard (and 2.0 through an upgrade), Firewire, and Airport options?
"It'll be cool to hack my click sound on my mouse. Just think of the possibilities when using the tactile scrolling feature while viewing pr0n."
Next thing you'll be demanding from Apple is force feedback/vibration on Mighty Mouse II for your pr0n needs...:)
Perhaps they should add an electronic shock to the controller for replying to spam or any pop-up add that sneaks through Firefox or Safari...
And, just for your personal interests, I'd suggest checking out Atari's experimental arcade game from the 1970s called "Gotcha." The designer objected to the phallic nature of videogames via the joystick so he created his controller based upon breasts...
"I'm glad to see Apple including cross-platform support for their products. Now how about that iSight camera Steve?"
I myself have had hope Apple would gain some sense and market Apple-branded Firewire (400 & 800) cards for the PC market. An "Apple white" Firewire (or even Bluetooth) card could've commanded a premium from the casemodder market and made Firewire more viable in Windowsland, but unfortunately, Apple prefers to give those monies instead (by forfeiture) to Adaptec and Belkin by their nonparticipation.
"I don't question that'll be fine for the average user, and I know the Macites will blast me with "get a gamer's mouse then" (I have one for my Mac), but anytime Apple leads the rest of the industry tends to follow. Hopefully Apple led well."
Uhm, who *games* on the Mac platform anyway? And I'm not posting this to get a flamebait or troll award, but Mac gaming will not get serious until the MacIntels hit the market next year and hopefully off-the-shelf video cards (PCIe) will finally work on the PowerMac equivalent models...
A standard two-button mouse does nothing for gaming on the Mac. But hopefully, it'll convince the programmers at Yahoo to enable two-button mouse performance in Yahoo Messenger for OS X.:)
What is it with these corporate heads these days? Do they have so much hubris that they don't care about "the Osborne effect" anymore? First it was Jobs with the Macintosh platform Intel switcher-roo, and now its Gates with this announcement. Doing this never works out in the game industry. Its like driving nails into the coffin. People have already cited the Dreamcast/DVD fiasco, so I won't spend extra space addressing that.
At this point, Microsoft should delay the console's debut until HD-DVD is ready. Why? Because there will be plenty of gamers that will hold out until the *true* system is released because they'd rather not get burned/ripped-off. This staggered release will only ensure that the only gamers in large numbers getting ahold of the Xbox360 this year will be the ones that win them from the Mountain Dew promo. Hell, Microsoft should delay the release of the Xbox360 until Halo3 is ready. They maximize their marketing dollars that way too.
And since it would be wise to delay the release, Microsoft should jump in the Blu-Ray camp because Blu-Ray is superior to HD-DVD and the consumers will know this by next year. Its not like Microsoft would have to buy the drives directly from Sony either. Microsoft could buy the drives from Matsushita or any of the other manufacturers supporting the platform.
I'd wager money that Microsoft bought up the rights to "Duke Nukem Forever" and actually cranked it out exclusively for the Xbox360/Live before it ever began any serious work on an internal version of BSD or Linux.
Furthermore, I doubt Microsoft has the foresight to create a *Marklar* version of the Windows GUI (and APIs) sitting atop an open source foundation. Windows Vista would have to be sinking faster than the Titanic in the open market before Bill G. turned the company around completely like he did when he realized how serious a threat Netscape was back a decade ago...
I, for one, welcome the return of our Annunaki overlords...:)
Then again, it could be Mondas, the Earth's long lost twin planet and homeworld of the Cybermen...someone better get ahold of that eccentric Time Lord who travels through time and space in a phone booth...:)
Slashdot Mirror
"Ever hear of a program called Lotus 1-2-3? or Wordperfect?"
Ever heard of Visicalc? How about WordStar? dBASE?
"Funny, because I remember buying thousands of PCs with IBM-DOS or OS/2 pre-installed on them in 1994. Prior to 1995, Microsoft didn't have a lock on the desktop."
Yes they [Microsoft] did. You don't think Microsoft didn't make money off IBM's PC-DOS or OS/2? Think again. Strike one.
In that time period, the only way you could get away with not paying the Microsoft tax (aside from pirating) was buying non PC hardware...that being an Apple Macintosh, an Amiga, or an Atari ST. I'm not counting NeXT or Sun hardware in that category because they weren't exactly considered PCs in that era...
"Microsoft won the desktop war by being better than the competition at providing what corporations are interested in - useable applications."
OS/2 ran Windows apps. Strike two.
"Give credit where it's due. Without Windows 95 we'd all be running OS/2 by now and the Internet wouldn't be nearly as accessible."
Credit is not due. Guess you've never heard of OS/2 Warp for PCs. And Macs could access the net without Microsoft's software. Lynx and Mosaic worked on Amigas and Atari STs, not to mention software like Stik and Cab. Strike three.
"BZZZZZT! Thanks for playing. Remember that your beloved Apple is now using a purchased OS, from Next!"
Completely different scenario. Apple may have acquired NeXT, but NeXT was founded by Jobs, so that was just Apple Computer v. 2.0. At least OS X recognizes that its origins come from BSD, whereas Microsoft again takes portions of BSD, hides it in Windows, and contributes nothing back (thanks to the marvelous BSD license).
That's like arguing that Apple ripped off the GUI (like Microsoft) from Xerox PARC, when in truth, Apple had a licensing agreement with Xerox, traded stock, and under Scully, almost acquired Xerox. Microsoft didn't do that, they just stole, or, "creatively acquired" if you prefer that term...just as they had stolen MS-DOS from Digital Research a few short years before.
Microsoft is not an innovative company technically speaking. They are only innovative in terms of their business practices and getting away with something even AT&T couldn't a decade before.
"when the PC first came out there were three operating systems available for it (PC/MS-DOS, CPM-86 and UCSD). IBM wanted the marketplace to decide which was the best one. Microsoft did not have any kind of leg up with the other two competitors initially"
Wrong. Microsoft did have a leg up. If the user wanted Digital Research's offering, it cost more than twice as much as IBM's rebadged version of MS-DOS (PC-DOS). Microsoft's MS-DOS, a rebranded version of QDOS, was a complete rip-off of Digital Research's C/PM. Gates screwed over his "friend" Gary Kendall in the process.
"I run Nextel credit checks for a living. Passing a Nextel credit check is much harder, and is practically the most stringent."
Maybe so, but Sprint's credit check is not...
"When you live in a society that has lost all concept of manners (and don't say the South is still some shining example, because I just lived there for 3 years and it is becoming just as vapid and rude as any place else) something that basically enables people to be even bigger assholes in public is the last thing we need.
Inevitably, you have soccer moms and ghetto thugs (or wannabes) blasting their conversations across the entire room, and for some reason they feel the need to shout even louder than they normally would on a cell phone. (another thing that drives me nuts)."
The correct term when referencing what you deed "rude" is "ghetto fabulous." Now, find the TPS Report cover for this memo.
"Why do people bother with this? Why don't they just call each other? It is bad enough when I have to listen to half of a conversation. Now I get to sit in a restaraunt, or other public place, and hear"
I absolutely hate the push-to-talk/walkie talkie Nextel and Sprint phones. It is turning all of their customers "ghetto fabulous" when it comes to public manners.
The walkie talkie users should get a clue and understand that the rest of us don't even want to hear ONE side of the conversation from them.
Instead of investigating steroids in professional baseball, perhaps Congress should pass a law banning such devices since they are public nuisances. Or at least restrict them to businesses.
Then again, shutting down Sprint PCS itself would deprive pimps, bangers and hoods of legitimately purchased mobile phones since they couldn't pass Cingular's rather restrictive credit checks.
"Unfortunately, I don't think Apple is going to have a choice in this matter. When the big media companies have seen TC and its "benefits" on the Wintel Vista boxes, they will demand it on Apple boxes. Since Apple doesn't currently have the *COMPUTER* marketshare to stand up to the MPAA/RIAA, on the COMPUTER (where video content will come), they will be unable to get any of the content that media companies will be comfortable releasing to a Trusted Vista box. Since Apple only has 5% market share, it won't hurt much to leave them out."
But Apple DOES have marketshare in the consumer market, which is what the MPAA/RIAA care about. From some reports, Apple has between 10% and 20% of the American consumer market. Its in corporate sales that Apple is pathetic at, and since those are the majority of computer sales, that's the reason why Apple is pegged at 4% of the total computer market in the U.S. and 2% worldwide.
"Keep in mind that the motherboard in the Developer Transition Platform is a very generic one, and could just as easily be a preexisting Intel motherboard that already includes TPM. Remember: everything in the Developer Transition Platform at present is generic Intel components. They don't support FireWire 800, Bluetooth, 802.11, and have a generic standard Intel BIOS. Does that imply shipping machines will be that way? No? Then neither does the inclusion of a TPM chip on this particular motherboard. There is precedent for Apple taking special care to disallow the spread of prerelease/developer software and hardware, while having no such equivalent restrictions in the final product"
And does anyone know for a given fact beyond the shadow of doubt that the MacIntel machines will be running traditional x86 PentiumIV/M/etc. chips and not something like the ItaniumII and successors?
"Even though the article says these are "test boxes" apple should see that wIthout DRM they would have the perfect weapon to gain market share. The difference between heavily restricted wintel boxes and non DRM Apples will be apparent even down to the level of J6P. Would this leave Apple as the only "General computer" left? A more accross the board move to Apple could even be a boon to linux as more people accept the fact that there are options to wintel"
.Mac. The 20% + margin is going to be even more difficult to maintain since Apple is shifting to Intel x86 since its going to be a straight Ghz to Ghz comparison with Apple's operating system being the winning edge for those willing to pay a premium for the Apple experience.
Yeah, but Apple isn't concerned about making a "boon to Linux." The only way that would be profitable for Apple (ie. attracting Linux enthusiasts to buy Apple Macs instead of building/buying traditional Windows PCs from other manufacturers) is if somehow Apple can still command a 20% + profit on their machines. And even then, that would still be "robbing" Apple of further profits via OS X upgrades, and other value-added services like
And if the 20% margin cannot be maintained, you will see DRM in place on Apple machines because Apple will see Linux enthusiasts purchasing their hardware as non-contributory *bottom feeders* as how Microsoft views Linux enthusiasts who buy Xboxes but no games.
Now, to the DRM/loss of 20% margin caveat:
If Apple continues gaining military contracts (ie. the Navy contract they won but required Linux installed on the hardware) that is in tandem with Linux requirements, the DRM argument weakens.
Another issue is the ease of installing Microsoft Windows on the x86 Macs. Apple won't restrict that (but Microsoft might) and might even tout it in their advertising. There is a precident from the early video game industry. Coleco touted its Atari 2600 hardware emulator to coax the Atari 2600 owners to move up to the Colecovision instead (as well as new consumers entering the market but weary of buying non-Atari 2600 - the standard at the time - hardware) of buying the non-2600 compatible Atari 5200. Coleco never had an intention of selling many of the hardware adapters; it was merely a mindshare strategy to give the consumer a choice (or illusion of) when in reality, the consumer persuaded to buying the Colecovision most likely would spend their extra dollars buying Colecovision specific games and not the 2600 emulator.
"Seriously, I'm sure that there are thousands of people who would line up, despite that 10% chance of a disease that some of them will get anyway. I would. Go to Mars, keep working on cancer cure. Everybody wins.:-)"
:)
:0
Have the ship's computers crunch Folding@Home (through BOINC) during spare CPU time and every base is covered in the argument...
Although perhaps turning on SETI as the ship orbits above the Cydonia range might be more useful...
"And you've got to wonder about quotes like this:
Others suggest more radical solutions might be needed. "Radiation exposure is certainly one of the major problems facing future interplanetary space travellers," says Murdoch Baxter, founding editor of the Journal of Environmental Radioactivity. "Unless we can develop instantaneous time and space transfer technologies like Dr Who's TARDIS.""
Obviously, it implies that there are Doctor Who fans amongst the scientific community. Well, that chap should know better. He should get to work on creating a working "Eye of Harmony" if he wants to harness the power necessary for TARDIS* travel.
Too bad he couldn't get The Doctor's title correct.
And the TARDIS isn't exactly a safe method of travel. In the 1996 telefilm, the Eye of Harmony ate the Doctor's arch nemesis known as The Master. And in the 2005 relaunch of the series, the TARDIS's Time Vortex Rotor (aka "the heart/soul of the TARDIS) empowered one member of the crew with deity/Dark Phoenix like powers and ultimately "killed" a very important character on the show.
*Time And Relative Dimension(s) In Space.
"Atari 2600. 1977 price: $199.95
This is disputed - I and many others have seen boxes over the years with an original $249 price tag, and still more people remember seeing them in stores at that price. The general feeling now is that $249 was the initial price of this system, although actual MSRP is not so simple to just go back and look up. (The old Atari no longer exists, there was no WWW back then, and people's memories are not always accurate.)"
$250 it was in 1977. If memory serves me correctly, you can find a price quote of it in *Zap - The Rise & Fall of Atari* by Scott Cohen. An old Sears Wishbook catalog(s) should also be a good source to check.
There's plenty of other resources online too...
www.atarimuseum.com being one of the best...
As others have pointed out, the Atari 2600 (inflation adjusted) cost far more back in the early 80s than the upcoming Xbox 360 will at the end of this year.
Similarly, people are complaining about the price increase per title. Xbox360 titles will MSRP at $59.99 whereas the original Xbox titles MSRP at $49.99.
Yet, back in 1982, my copy of Pac-Man for the Atari 2600 retailed at Toys "R" Us for $49.99. According to the Inflation Calculator (www.westegg.com/inflation), the 1982 dollars for that title today would equal $101.41, which is definitely much more than $59.99.
Granted, people will argue over playability. Pac-Man on the 2600 did suck, but I do recall getting lots of gameplay out of that money. I hope the playability factor will be much more with the Xbox360's titles although I'm not holding my breath.
"I thought this had more to do with their agreement with McIntosh audio, where Apple agreed not to make audio equipment."
Nope, the agreement was with Apple Corps., aka Apple Records, the company owned by the Beatles.
McIntosh is now owned by Denon. Denon, which is 1/2 (or more) controlling interest in D&M Holdings, owns the remnants of ReplayTV, and also sold off Rio about a week ago.
"I figured that this was in the works. Apple working hard to beat up the Trolls out there. Macs are to expensive so they came up with the Mac-Mini, The processor is still not as fast as Intel so they switched to Intel. And the long only one button mouse troll is finally put to rest."
:) (although I understand the reason).
:)
They are answering the trolls in increments. There are still plenty of things to troll about in Apple/Macintoshland and post here on Slashdot about, such as:
*No color screens in the iPod Minis yet (X-Mas time).
*No gapless audio playback on the iPod yet.
*No OGG/FLAC (and for sadists, WMA) support on the iPods.
*No video iPod.
*No iPod/iTunes phone yet (blame all).
*No new Newton or Apple branded PalmOS device or adding NewtonOS, OS X mini, or PalmOS to iPods.
*No TabletMac yet.
*No official iTunes/Quicktime release for Linux.
*No AAC+Fairplay licensing to other companies (as of yet) to make non Apple hardware compatible with the iTunes Music Store... (I'm talking Sony PSP, PalmOS devices, and TiVo).
*Still no physical eject button on the CD/DVD drives on the Macs.
*No headless Mac in the price range between the Mac Mini and the PowerMac.
*No off-the-shelf videocard support in PowerMacs (meaning we cannot buy a WindowsPC based videocard to escape the Mac videocard surcharge).
*No digital audio out on the Macs or decent digital audio chipset (thanks to the never-ending litigation between Apple Computer and Apple Corps). Feel free to correct me on this if I'm incorrect.
*Going with Intel over AMD on the x86 switch...
There's still probably more to troll about than that, but my fingers are tired from typing...
where's the Bluetooth 2.0 edition?
"With an OS that doesn't suck, a sub $500 Mac, a move to x86, and a mulitbutton Apple mouse, will Apple reconsider other Sacred Cows like a 21st century Newton?"
Or Apple finally buying out TiVo (and ReplayTV's intellectual property from liquidation minded D&M Holdings)and bringing to market a TiVo DVR that takes advantage of integrating iTunes/iMovie/iPhoto along with dual tuners, H.264 native support, iSight support, CableCard 1.0 standard (and 2.0 through an upgrade), Firewire, and Airport options?
"It'll be cool to hack my click sound on my mouse.
:)
Just think of the possibilities when using the tactile scrolling feature while viewing pr0n."
Next thing you'll be demanding from Apple is force feedback/vibration on Mighty Mouse II for your pr0n needs...
Perhaps they should add an electronic shock to the controller for replying to spam or any pop-up add that sneaks through Firefox or Safari...
And, just for your personal interests, I'd suggest checking out Atari's experimental arcade game from the 1970s called "Gotcha." The designer objected to the phallic nature of videogames via the joystick so he created his controller based upon breasts...
"I'm glad to see Apple including cross-platform support for their products. Now how about that iSight camera Steve?"
I myself have had hope Apple would gain some sense and market Apple-branded Firewire (400 & 800) cards for the PC market. An "Apple white" Firewire (or even Bluetooth) card could've commanded a premium from the casemodder market and made Firewire more viable in Windowsland, but unfortunately, Apple prefers to give those monies instead (by forfeiture) to Adaptec and Belkin by their nonparticipation.
"I don't question that'll be fine for the average user, and I know the Macites will blast me with "get a gamer's mouse then" (I have one for my Mac), but anytime Apple leads the rest of the industry tends to follow. Hopefully Apple led well."
:)
Uhm, who *games* on the Mac platform anyway? And I'm not posting this to get a flamebait or troll award, but Mac gaming will not get serious until the MacIntels hit the market next year and hopefully off-the-shelf video cards (PCIe) will finally work on the PowerMac equivalent models...
A standard two-button mouse does nothing for gaming on the Mac. But hopefully, it'll convince the programmers at Yahoo to enable two-button mouse performance in Yahoo Messenger for OS X.
What is it with these corporate heads these days? Do they have so much hubris that they don't care about "the Osborne effect" anymore? First it was Jobs with the Macintosh platform Intel switcher-roo, and now its Gates with this announcement. Doing this never works out in the game industry. Its like driving nails into the coffin. People have already cited the Dreamcast/DVD fiasco, so I won't spend extra space addressing that.
At this point, Microsoft should delay the console's debut until HD-DVD is ready. Why? Because there will be plenty of gamers that will hold out until the *true* system is released because they'd rather not get burned/ripped-off. This staggered release will only ensure that the only gamers in large numbers getting ahold of the Xbox360 this year will be the ones that win them from the Mountain Dew promo. Hell, Microsoft should delay the release of the Xbox360 until Halo3 is ready. They maximize their marketing dollars that way too.
And since it would be wise to delay the release, Microsoft should jump in the Blu-Ray camp because Blu-Ray is superior to HD-DVD and the consumers will know this by next year. Its not like Microsoft would have to buy the drives directly from Sony either. Microsoft could buy the drives from Matsushita or any of the other manufacturers supporting the platform.
I'd wager money that Microsoft bought up the rights to "Duke Nukem Forever" and actually cranked it out exclusively for the Xbox360/Live before it ever began any serious work on an internal version of BSD or Linux.
Furthermore, I doubt Microsoft has the foresight to create a *Marklar* version of the Windows GUI (and APIs) sitting atop an open source foundation. Windows Vista would have to be sinking faster than the Titanic in the open market before Bill G. turned the company around completely like he did when he realized how serious a threat Netscape was back a decade ago...
I, for one, welcome the return of our Annunaki overlords...
Then again, it could be Mondas, the Earth's long lost twin planet and homeworld of the Cybermen...someone better get ahold of that eccentric Time Lord who travels through time and space in a phone booth...
"I like my commonly used electronics names to be short, VHS, DVD, VCR, TV, CD, DVR, Blu-Ray??? Which one of these things is not like the other..."
Pentium. Athlon. LaserDisc. Betamax. TiVo. Palm. BlackBerry. Razr. SideKick. WalkMan. MiniDisc. Trinitron. Playstation. GameBoy. GameCube. Genesis. Macintosh. iPod. QuickTime. Word. PowerPoint. Excel. Office. PageMaker. PhotoShop. Vaio. FireWire. AirPort. Blu-Ray.