holy shit! it suddenly occured to me if they lied about this, what else might they have lied about! what if micosoft suddenly declare RAND licencing on.NET derivatives or disallow XAML reimplentations for gnome!?
obviously sparkle is destined to become the dominant multimedia advertising/animation/pop-over platform of this century, i suggest we abandon all current foss efforts regarding xul/svg and embrase my new project to clone this with mono/cairo for gnome called 'stat'
it is truly tiresome to see so many knee-jerk reactions borne from ignorance and hysteria
OOo does NOT require non-free java. It does require a compatible implementation of a subset of the virtual machine specifications - which Sun have made patent grants so that FOSS versions can exist and flourish.
Previous versions of Ooo have relied on a jre for non core tasks. It still functioned adequately without a jre. The presumably free+clean debian package which I use is perfectly ok.
The new feature in 2.0 which is causing all the hoo-har is base, an access clone based largely on the hsql project (based on hypersonic sql) a java database which is completely open, amazingly light, astonishingly compact (sub 100kb) and highly compatible - it can be made to run in 1.1 (even microsoft's FUI). It is one of the most portable java projects out there and YES it can run on a number of open source java implementations.
There are many open source virtual machines:
gij (or compile to native with gcj/gcc) sable-vm kaffe jikes-vm
they mostly depend on classpath an lgpl implementation of java's common runtime api.
Classpath is so mature now that 99% of non-gui java programs can be made to run with some tweaking. Redhat are busy working on the gui (coming real soon).
There are plenty of open source gui bindings other than swing. Famously swt (which is much less objectionable than say kde/qt )
Mono/gcj/kaffe +classpath+swt+redhatSwing is going to be able to run virtually any java program out there - and very quickly thanks to JIT or AOTC. Probably before the end of 2005.
so Ooo depending (slightly more) on a jre is not any kind of show-stopper nor is it designed to be. If anything it will add motivation to get compatible foss java the last mile - which is what it think sun really wants - and is probably the real strategy behind the gently increasing coupling of Ooo and java.
"We are an open source implementation of the virtual machine, the C# language, the base class libraries, and we have a compatibility stack (ASP.NET, ADO.NET, and Windows.Forms)"
bzzzzzzt
warning : multiple patent/copyright violations for implementing anything beyond c# and core virtual machine.
sorry this isn't fud (until microsoft clarify their position)
"when people say Firefox is being downloaded onto people's systems, that's true, but IE is also on those systems... Some percentage of users are going to try Firefox and IE side by side... So no big problem; it's not that people have stopped using IE"
he is gloating that people can't completely uninstall internet exlorer.
how does rendezvous compare with Microsoft's Universal Plug and Play standard (as found in Media Center Extender)? They sound very similar to me, but MCE inevitably will become the ubiqutous home Discovery standard so isn't this effort just (no offence) 'accademic crap' at the end of the day.
in addition siince novell owns ximian and novell licenced unix copyright to SCO, SCO sold a licence to Microsoft. Microsoft licensed Java from Sun, Microsoft are evil so Sun withdrew the license. Microsoft copied unlicensed java technology into.NET, novell bought ximian, ximian own$ mono, mono is not under GPL / LGPL license or Microsoft shared source license. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit. The defense rests.
Possibly microsoft's answer to competing and blowing away the mozilla XUL or whatever it is called these days
all that needs to happen for microsoft to blow away XUL is for fools to believe the hype. remember when NT 3.x was going to destroy UNIX prompting sgi to jump ship. remember how itanic was supposed to take over high-end risc prompting HP to kill their shit-hot cpus (sob).
YOU CAN BUILD GREAT THINGS WITH XUL &/ SVG TODAY THEY ARE READY FOR PRIMETIME RIGHT NOW or you could sit there sniffing the sweet vapour
Avalon is propaganda, spin, FUDware it could never see a compiler and still acomplish all the goals in its requirements document - kill the openstandard crossplatform richclient (xul, svg, webstart, eclipse rich client platform (very nice) christ even flash opening up and getting some serious backend features).
Slashdot Mirror
most accurate summary on this subject ever
holy shit! it suddenly occured to me if they lied about this, what else might they have lied about! what if micosoft suddenly declare RAND licencing on
obviously sparkle is destined to become the dominant multimedia advertising/animation/pop-over platform of this century, i suggest we abandon all current foss efforts regarding xul/svg and embrase my new project to clone this with mono/cairo for gnome called 'stat'
we're running some important tests with longhorn beta, but just to be safe i think i'll shut do...
NT
you CAN stop an unstoppable malware program simply by using an immovable malware tool
insightful my ass.
it is truly tiresome to see so many knee-jerk reactions borne from ignorance and hysteria
OOo does NOT require non-free java.
It does require a compatible implementation of a subset of the virtual machine specifications - which Sun have made patent grants so that FOSS versions can exist and flourish.
Previous versions of Ooo have relied on a jre for non core tasks. It still functioned adequately without a jre. The presumably free+clean debian package which I use is perfectly ok.
The new feature in 2.0 which is causing all the hoo-har is base, an access clone based largely on the hsql project (based on hypersonic sql) a java database which is completely open, amazingly light, astonishingly compact (sub 100kb) and highly compatible - it can be made to run in 1.1 (even microsoft's FUI). It is one of the most portable java projects out there and YES it can run on a number of open source java implementations.
There are many open source virtual machines:
gij (or compile to native with gcj/gcc)
sable-vm
kaffe
jikes-vm
they mostly depend on classpath an lgpl implementation of java's common runtime api.
Classpath is so mature now that 99% of non-gui java programs can be made to run with some tweaking. Redhat are busy working on the gui (coming real soon).
There are plenty of open source gui bindings other than swing. Famously swt (which is much less objectionable than say kde/qt )
Mono/gcj/kaffe +classpath+swt+redhatSwing is going to be able to run virtually any java program out there - and very quickly thanks to JIT or AOTC. Probably before the end of 2005.
so Ooo depending (slightly more) on a jre is not any kind of show-stopper nor is it designed to be. If anything it will add motivation to get compatible foss java the last mile - which is what it think sun really wants - and is probably the real strategy behind the gently increasing coupling of Ooo and java.
i think the stopwatch is a great feature to have
"We are an open source implementation of the virtual machine, the C# language, the base class libraries, and we have a compatibility stack (ASP.NET, ADO.NET, and Windows.Forms)"
bzzzzzzt
warning : multiple patent/copyright violations for implementing anything beyond c# and core virtual machine.
sorry this isn't fud (until microsoft clarify their position)
"when people say Firefox is being downloaded onto people's systems, that's true, but IE is also on those systems... Some percentage of users are going to try Firefox and IE side by side... So no big problem; it's not that people have stopped using IE"
he is gloating that people can't completely uninstall internet exlorer.
but 64 accounts ought to be enough for anyone
how does rendezvous compare with Microsoft's Universal Plug and Play standard (as found in Media Center Extender)? They sound very similar to me, but MCE inevitably will become the ubiqutous home Discovery standard so isn't this effort just (no offence) 'accademic crap' at the end of the day.
"it would be terrific if you could get true cross-platform development going for a GPL'ed GUI development environment."
try eclipse with libswt and gcj
https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-517235 8b19-6f45f145ca c 0563-18969179a8 6 9d32-22621daaff 7 c84e-b9e70ce4cd 1 50e2-0bef3ba2a4 2 cd83-e0644e7ef5
https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-13556
https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-62e3c
https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-6c3f0
https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-bc9b1
https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-d6f30
just post your email address
in addition siince novell owns ximian and novell licenced unix copyright to SCO, SCO sold a licence to Microsoft. Microsoft licensed Java from Sun, Microsoft are evil so Sun withdrew the license. Microsoft copied unlicensed java technology into .NET, novell bought ximian, ximian own$ mono, mono is not under GPL / LGPL license or Microsoft shared source license. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit. The defense rests.
he is a troll
If you write to their standards you belong to them.
its write once, run anywhere (maybe (careful now)), subscribe to msdn for life suckers!
"I would think that Microsoft has a higher responsibility towards the developer base"
try shareholders miguel. their developers are just another corporate asset (see sig).
Possibly microsoft's answer to competing and blowing away the mozilla XUL or whatever it is called these days
all that needs to happen for microsoft to blow away XUL is for fools to believe the hype. remember when NT 3.x was going to destroy UNIX prompting sgi to jump ship. remember how itanic was supposed to take over high-end risc prompting HP to kill their shit-hot cpus (sob).
YOU CAN BUILD GREAT THINGS WITH XUL &/ SVG TODAY THEY ARE READY FOR PRIMETIME RIGHT NOW
or you could sit there sniffing the sweet vapour
Avalon is propaganda, spin, FUDware it could never see a compiler and still acomplish all the goals in its requirements document - kill the openstandard crossplatform richclient (xul, svg, webstart, eclipse rich client platform (very nice) christ even flash opening up and getting some serious backend features).
Are we done having our trollfest yet?
poor poor melgeroth (726004), the kde trolls don't even get up for another 3 hours.
there will be no further talk of qt/kde superiority in this thread. thankyou
1. embrace & extend svg & xul by anouncing avalon/xaml vaporware
2. sit on hands as svg & xul die
3. profit
miguel once applied for a job at microsoft but didn't get it on account of immigration status or something like that - google for it.
from his past words and actions miguel has a viagra charged hardon for all things redmond
i'll be getting my coat then... adios
it was wonderful, no patents either, fantastic!