I don't know about you, but I think of direction and drive as matters of personal development better left to the kid and their parents than to (shudder!) public schools. If you disagree, I'd like to hear why.
I agree; but if the parents fail and the kids fail (and failure occurs in that order), then it's either the public school system or Life that will choose the kids' careers; i.e., a rock and a hard place. But if we're going to forcefeed pre-adults a state-sponsored education anyway, the kids might as well have a chance to specialize before they graduate.
I'm not claiming it's the best approach. I'd rather have HS graduation occur at the end of 10th grade and have two years' mandatory national or public service. But the above is more feasible in the eyes of bureaucrats than a real fix.
You could, however, show them how good a particular drink tastes, perhaps repeatedly with different drinks, and hope that something catches their senses.
That's all we can hope for. And I contend that, given the educational system we have, specialization before graduation is better than what we've had up until this point.
No, but photos of my 9 year old daughter will prove I've gotten over it.
My point was made after having sat in on a few days of high school this spring. There were some good classes, great teachers, and good students. But the amount of cajoling, hand-holding, and lawsuit-prevention that the administration and teachers went through sickened me.
If I have sour grapes, it's because I needed direction in HS and never got it. It's taken me 18 years since HS to make up for it. That's a long time to pay a price because of a broken educational system. Specialization would have at least helped pave the way toward a living wage. True, there's nothing you can do about a spoiled kid, but it's the directionless kid that concerns me. And even so: if someone you are responsible for (sibling, child, students, whatever) fails despite your best efforts, you can sleep well that night.
>> But you can't force even a measly 60-credit major of specialization on someone who really has no direction in life.
Yes you can. Someone with no direction almost by definition doesn't know their own strengths or weaknesses. Putting them in a program that emphasizes their strengths might just be the catalyst toward real change. I'm not claiming this is guaranteed, but it's better than saying "it's too late -- they're a loser, so let them lose."
>> Forcing specialization brings the crap up with the cream.
I would agree if we were talking about 1st-8th graders. At the least, it's worth a try with 9th graders and above.
No, _you_ are scary. All of those words, and not one hint of a solution to the problem anywhere. Nor a hint of direct experience with the problem. Your rebuttal might earn an A in a Communications class, but that's all.
If the title of the/. article had read: "HS Students Allowed to Specialize", would there have been this uproar?
A couple of points to respond to you knee-jerkers who think this idea is unfair:
* There are four main ways to improve an economy; specialization is one of them. That's what we're discussing here. Have you noticed that we haven't seen any Mozart's or Chaplin's lately? Given any thought as to why? They essentially _majored_ in their field at an early age and stayed with it! Where in the US will you find an educational system that will allow specialization at an early age? Home school. That's it. Until this plan came along. I'm not claiming it's perfect, but specialization isn't the Big Bad Wolf.
*I suspect that most of you how have responded negatively haven't taught high school or college, ever. We have high schools that turn out students who need Basic and Intermediate Algebra and sometimes Remedial Composition I _and_ II in college. Something must change in public school systems. At least if an older student can pursue something s/he finds relevent, there would be initiative to pursue quality work. That might help a the students who recognize that public school is a jail from which they can't escape until they turn 18.
*As for the 'let the kids be kids!' argument: crap. They demand to be treated like adults when it comes to sex, alcohol, drugs, and the use of a parent's car. But when they enter the school, they want Mommy and Daddy to threaten a lawsuit if their homework becomes "too hard". As others have posted, we're facing fierce competition in India and Asia from hyper-educated grads who are willing to work for $1/hour. It's time to throw out the idea of a leisurely stroll through K-12 or K-BS.
*Re: 'They don't know what they want to do yet!' Do they want to eat? Do they want to be able to move out of Mommy and Daddy's house and live on their own? If so, they need money. If they can't inherit it, they'll have to work for it. That requires a job. A job requires training. They may not like it, but I won't pay for their Welfare checks just because they couldn't find the inspiration to be a fill-in-the-blank.
*And if they don't know what they want to do yet, then we, the adults, with scars on our bodies from what Life was done to us, have the right to choose for them. They're not adults yet. If they were, they'd pay taxes and have a job. They don't know what it's like to get laid off or lose a child or go bankrupt -- in short, they don't know what they need yet. They only know what they want. And that's not enough to survive.
In short, if you complain that forcing children to begin to take responsibility for their own adulthood is cruel/harsh/unfair, you're as much of the problem as administrators and teachers who teach solely for the tests. Is this FL plan perfect? Doubt it. Argue about its implementation then. But for God's sake make it a priority that your children grow up instead of just growing old.
If you can make money off something you created for 14 years, you're doing pretty well. Most of us have to keep showing up at work for 14 years to receive income for that same amount of time.
That said, I would support a copyright span for 28 years, as in the original US Constitution. That would address your concerns well and keep the public domain alive.
Imam: And before we detonate
the explosives that we carry on our bodies and destroy all of
Western Civilization, I ask you: what have they ever offered
us?
Ahmed: Hot and cold running water?
Imam: What?
Ahmed: I said, 'Hot and cold running water'.
Imam: Oh yeah, yeah there is that.
Suicide Bomber: And sanitation!
Ibrahim: Oh yes... sanitation, Blessed Imam, you remember how
their cities smell compared to this old dump.
Imam: All right, I'll grant you that running water and the
sanitation are two things that Western Civilization could
offer...
Sadiq: And the roads...
Imam: (sharply) Well yes obviously the
roads... the roads go without saying. But apart from the running
water, the sanitation and the roads...
Another Suicide Bomber: Irrigation...
Other Suicide Bombers: Medicine... Education... Health...
Imam: Yes... all right...
Suicide Bomber Near Front: And the booze...
Ahkbar: Oh yes! Good one!
Abdul: Yeah. That's something we'd really miss if we destroy
Western Civilization, O Blessed Imam.
Suicide Bomber at Back: Don't forget soap!
Ibrahim: And it would be safe to walk in the
streets at night.
Abdul: Yes, they certainly want law and order... (general
nodding)... let's face it, they're the only ones who do
in a world like this. (more general murmurs of agreement)Imam: All right... all right... but apart from booze, hot
and cold running water, sanitation and medicine, education,
irrigation, roads, soap and the rule of law... what has the
Western Civilization to offer us?
Ahmed: What about peace?
Imam: Oh, peace!... shut up!
Excellent list. A few years ago at least there would have been one more: 7) A Windows user gets out of the boat and cautiously experiments with Linux. After running into a problem, he contacts a discussion board for help. He is then told: RTFA/RTFM. He goes back to Windows or buys a Mac.
Thanks to Ubuntu popularizing user-friendliness, that's a rarer scenario than before.
those who treat the direst predictions about Global Warming as fact also treat Darwinian evolution as fact and yet are absolutely terrified about the natural implications of both theories: namely that you're going to die, it's going to unpleasant if not painful, and ultimately there's nothing you can do about it.
Standard disclaimer: no, I don't believe that Global Warming is fake; and if you're planning to equate speaking ill of Darwin with being a Creationist, I'd suggest going here first.
I'm 6'9" (1.98m), and I definitely agree. We need taller ceilings, taller doorways, bigger chairs, bigger desks. And why stop there? We should eliminate shoe stores that only carry only pair of size 16 shoes! We want... no, we *demand* a revolution! The biggest revolution ever!! Only the tall shall survive! You will all look up to us in the end! Mwaa ha ha!!
Wait... I'm getting off-topic. Yeah, higher ceilings would be nice.
I'm not kidding either. I still have my W2K partition, and the only trouble I have with it is that no one writes software for it. Granted, I don't have the network drivers installed, but that's what would be fixed once it was open sourced!
Maybe the genocidal aliens could be sensitive to our cultural needs, yelling "Ex-ter-min-ate!" in Britian and its former colonies and "De-stroy!" here in the US. Other linguistic changes would follow mutatis mutandis. It would be nice to know that the human race wasn't overrun and murdered by insensitive clods!
It just won't seem real to me until it fires laserbeams from its undercarriage at passing motorists and pedestrians while the words "De-stroy! De-stroy!" are chanted from its external loudspeaker system. If its targets all looked 50's retro, that would help too.
Never mind that our ancestors migrated from one place to another because they couldn't stand the {political, environmental, social, etc.} conditions where _they_ were born. That was normal. It's _our_ changes that mean the end of the world. And if you don't believe that, some say that you're not open-minded.
Does anyone grok that property values in northern climates will be _rising_ if global warming turns out to be true? That the ice caps on _Mars_ are melting, so if global warming is a fact, it may having nothing to do with SUV's? And if that SUV's are a culprit, that Gore uses _private jets_ and _air conditioned limos_ to arrive at speaking engagements?
Does anyone else see there's more going on here than environmental alarmists would have you believe?
I'm center-right on most issues, including labor and free markets, but I agree with you. In this case, forming a union would be worth looking into. Management can't ethically 'cut the fat' and leave their own salaries/perks/retirement untouched. It's just wrong.
Slashdot Mirror
I agree; but if the parents fail and the kids fail (and failure occurs in that order), then it's either the public school system or Life that will choose the kids' careers; i.e., a rock and a hard place. But if we're going to forcefeed pre-adults a state-sponsored education anyway, the kids might as well have a chance to specialize before they graduate.
I'm not claiming it's the best approach. I'd rather have HS graduation occur at the end of 10th grade and have two years' mandatory national or public service. But the above is more feasible in the eyes of bureaucrats than a real fix.
That's all we can hope for. And I contend that, given the educational system we have, specialization before graduation is better than what we've had up until this point.
>> You didn't get laid in high school, did you?
No, but photos of my 9 year old daughter will prove I've gotten over it.
My point was made after having sat in on a few days of high school this spring. There were some good classes, great teachers, and good students. But the amount of cajoling, hand-holding, and lawsuit-prevention that the administration and teachers went through sickened me.
If I have sour grapes, it's because I needed direction in HS and never got it. It's taken me 18 years since HS to make up for it. That's a long time to pay a price because of a broken educational system. Specialization would have at least helped pave the way toward a living wage. True, there's nothing you can do about a spoiled kid, but it's the directionless kid that concerns me. And even so: if someone you are responsible for (sibling, child, students, whatever) fails despite your best efforts, you can sleep well that night.
>> But you can't force even a measly 60-credit major of specialization on someone who really has no direction in life.
Yes you can. Someone with no direction almost by definition doesn't know their own strengths or weaknesses. Putting them in a program that emphasizes their strengths might just be the catalyst toward real change. I'm not claiming this is guaranteed, but it's better than saying "it's too late -- they're a loser, so let them lose."
>> Forcing specialization brings the crap up with the cream.
I would agree if we were talking about 1st-8th graders. At the least, it's worth a try with 9th graders and above.
No, _you_ are scary. All of those words, and not one hint of a solution to the problem anywhere. Nor a hint of direct experience with the problem. Your rebuttal might earn an A in a Communications class, but that's all.
If the title of the /. article had read: "HS Students Allowed to Specialize", would there have been this uproar?
A couple of points to respond to you knee-jerkers who think this idea is unfair:
* There are four main ways to improve an economy; specialization is one of them. That's what we're discussing here. Have you noticed that we haven't seen any Mozart's or Chaplin's lately? Given any thought as to why? They essentially _majored_ in their field at an early age and stayed with it! Where in the US will you find an educational system that will allow specialization at an early age? Home school. That's it. Until this plan came along. I'm not claiming it's perfect, but specialization isn't the Big Bad Wolf.
*I suspect that most of you how have responded negatively haven't taught high school or college, ever. We have high schools that turn out students who need Basic and Intermediate Algebra and sometimes Remedial Composition I _and_ II in college. Something must change in public school systems. At least if an older student can pursue something s/he finds relevent, there would be initiative to pursue quality work. That might help a the students who recognize that public school is a jail from which they can't escape until they turn 18.
*As for the 'let the kids be kids!' argument: crap. They demand to be treated like adults when it comes to sex, alcohol, drugs, and the use of a parent's car. But when they enter the school, they want Mommy and Daddy to threaten a lawsuit if their homework becomes "too hard". As others have posted, we're facing fierce competition in India and Asia from hyper-educated grads who are willing to work for $1/hour. It's time to throw out the idea of a leisurely stroll through K-12 or K-BS.
*Re: 'They don't know what they want to do yet!' Do they want to eat? Do they want to be able to move out of Mommy and Daddy's house and live on their own? If so, they need money. If they can't inherit it, they'll have to work for it. That requires a job. A job requires training. They may not like it, but I won't pay for their Welfare checks just because they couldn't find the inspiration to be a fill-in-the-blank.
*And if they don't know what they want to do yet, then we, the adults, with scars on our bodies from what Life was done to us, have the right to choose for them. They're not adults yet. If they were, they'd pay taxes and have a job. They don't know what it's like to get laid off or lose a child or go bankrupt -- in short, they don't know what they need yet. They only know what they want. And that's not enough to survive.
In short, if you complain that forcing children to begin to take responsibility for their own adulthood is cruel/harsh/unfair, you're as much of the problem as administrators and teachers who teach solely for the tests. Is this FL plan perfect? Doubt it. Argue about its implementation then. But for God's sake make it a priority that your children grow up instead of just growing old.
If you can make money off something you created for 14 years, you're doing pretty well. Most of us have to keep showing up at work for 14 years to receive income for that same amount of time.
That said, I would support a copyright span for 28 years, as in the original US Constitution. That would address your concerns well and keep the public domain alive.
Yeah, but the dinosaurs touched it first, and apparently the cockroaches have always been touching it, so your pessimism is quite unfounded.
will be based on a BSD.
Unless they want another failure on their hands.
except for endless copyright extensions. (I know I'm offtopic, but the fans should be owning this film by now, not George "Greedo Shot First" Lucas.)
Imam: And before we detonate the explosives that we carry on our bodies and destroy all of Western Civilization, I ask you: what have they ever offered us? Ahmed: Hot and cold running water? Imam: What? Ahmed: I said, 'Hot and cold running water'. Imam: Oh yeah, yeah there is that. Suicide Bomber: And sanitation! Ibrahim: Oh yes... sanitation, Blessed Imam, you remember how their cities smell compared to this old dump. Imam: All right, I'll grant you that running water and the sanitation are two things that Western Civilization could offer... Sadiq: And the roads... Imam: (sharply) Well yes obviously the roads... the roads go without saying. But apart from the running water, the sanitation and the roads... Another Suicide Bomber: Irrigation... Other Suicide Bombers: Medicine... Education... Health... Imam: Yes... all right... Suicide Bomber Near Front: And the booze... Ahkbar: Oh yes! Good one! Abdul: Yeah. That's something we'd really miss if we destroy Western Civilization, O Blessed Imam. Suicide Bomber at Back: Don't forget soap! Ibrahim: And it would be safe to walk in the streets at night. Abdul: Yes, they certainly want law and order... (general nodding)... let's face it, they're the only ones who do in a world like this. (more general murmurs of agreement) Imam: All right... all right... but apart from booze, hot and cold running water, sanitation and medicine, education, irrigation, roads, soap and the rule of law... what has the Western Civilization to offer us? Ahmed: What about peace? Imam: Oh, peace!... shut up!
Excellent list. A few years ago at least there would have been one more:
7) A Windows user gets out of the boat and cautiously experiments with Linux. After running into a problem, he contacts a discussion board for help. He is then told: RTFA/RTFM. He goes back to Windows or buys a Mac.
Thanks to Ubuntu popularizing user-friendliness, that's a rarer scenario than before.
"Drink this? I'd rather be dead!"
-- Bela Lugosi
those who treat the direst predictions about Global Warming as fact also treat Darwinian evolution as fact and yet are absolutely terrified about the natural implications of both theories: namely that you're going to die, it's going to unpleasant if not painful, and ultimately there's nothing you can do about it.
Standard disclaimer: no, I don't believe that Global Warming is fake; and if you're planning to equate speaking ill of Darwin with being a Creationist, I'd suggest going here first.
I'm 6'9" (1.98m), and I definitely agree. We need taller ceilings, taller doorways, bigger chairs, bigger desks. And why stop there? We should eliminate shoe stores that only carry only pair of size 16 shoes! We want... no, we *demand* a revolution! The biggest revolution ever!! Only the tall shall survive! You will all look up to us in the end! Mwaa ha ha!!
Wait... I'm getting off-topic. Yeah, higher ceilings would be nice.
Someone send this man a t-shirt with the key on the front and "It's not over yet!" on the back.
/. , like Wikipedia, needs to work on quality control.
hex2dec 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
ans =
1.325627888798946e+37
What about this?
hex2num 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
ans =
1.273668854538564e-260
Cancel your Myspace account, if you have one.
I'm not kidding either. I still have my W2K partition, and the only trouble I have with it is that no one writes software for it. Granted, I don't have the network drivers installed, but that's what would be fixed once it was open sourced!
http://www.jumptheshark.com/index.jspa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
> teenagers still need to feel like they have a voice.
But if what you say isn't worth listening to, no one listens. And that condition is almost indistinguishable from truly not having a voice.
And there's no escape from this in adulthood.
Maybe the genocidal aliens could be sensitive to our cultural needs, yelling "Ex-ter-min-ate!" in Britian and its former colonies and "De-stroy!" here in the US. Other linguistic changes would follow mutatis mutandis. It would be nice to know that the human race wasn't overrun and murdered by insensitive clods!
It just won't seem real to me until it fires laserbeams from its undercarriage at passing motorists and pedestrians while the words "De-stroy! De-stroy!" are chanted from its external loudspeaker system. If its targets all looked 50's retro, that would help too.
Your arguments are worse than you imagine mine to be. Please, grow up.
Never mind that our ancestors migrated from one place to another because they couldn't stand the {political, environmental, social, etc.} conditions where _they_ were born. That was normal. It's _our_ changes that mean the end of the world. And if you don't believe that, some say that you're not open-minded.
Does anyone grok that property values in northern climates will be _rising_ if global warming turns out to be true? That the ice caps on _Mars_ are melting, so if global warming is a fact, it may having nothing to do with SUV's? And if that SUV's are a culprit, that Gore uses _private jets_ and _air conditioned limos_ to arrive at speaking engagements?
Does anyone else see there's more going on here than environmental alarmists would have you believe?
I'm center-right on most issues, including labor and free markets, but I agree with you. In this case, forming a union would be worth looking into. Management can't ethically 'cut the fat' and leave their own salaries/perks/retirement untouched. It's just wrong.