Wrong. The phrase "all bug are shallow" simply means that, with enough eyes, *someone* will be able to find the solution to any given bug fairly quickly. i.e., to them, the bug will be "shallow". And this seems to be quite true, given the rate at which bugs in Firefox and other open source products are fixed (quite often within 24 hours).
You're using evidence of how fast bugs get fixed to show how easy they are to find. Not buying it.
I'm not saying each of his assertions is specifically wrong, but that they're basically unfounded and are more "pretty" analogies than founded analysis.
As Linus once said, "Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow." If board makers would GPL there drivers or even send one free of charge to a kernel developer, we would not have this problem.
1. Linus didn't say that, Raymond did. 2. By your own analysis, all famous open-source projects should be bug-free, right? Like Firefox, right?
Stop drinking the kool-aid. Open source is not a panacea for all software development problems, and Raymond made a lot of sweeping generalities in the book you're quoting, many which make for great sound bites but are absolutely irrelevant.
few who stoop to such pathetic marketing tactics would think enough to craft a message that ( to a person ) in not easily recognizable as spam, so I guess you have a point.
That's simply not true. The spammers may not be clever, but there are black-hat programmers who recognize the need and write easy-to-use software for generating spam that gets around filters. Have you not seen emails from someone named, say, "Rectum G. Arboretum" that has an advertising image, and a passage from an encyclopedia at the bottom to get past your filter? That's spam software at work. And when that first came out, it was really effective.
You're describing zealots of all kinds there. Swap "Mac" for "Windows", "Linux", "GNU", "closed source", "open source", "Java", "C", etc etc and you can have exactly the same kind of story.
That's very true, but as [G|g]od is my witness, I have never met a Windows zealot. I've met people who think Mac OS sucks. I used to be one before X, but I suppose the point is I'm now writing this on a powerbook.
However, I've never met anyone who is a Windows fan in the way that mac-heads are apple fans. And again, I say this as a fairly neutral powerbook owned.
I certainly hope no one thinks it will be any different here. In my several years reading/., its been a constant that I can always count on; rabid fans of both spouting broken record thoughts about how poor the other is.
I know there are *Intel* jocks who get into the whole PC hardware thing, but is there actually anyone who thinks of Windows as more than a means to an end (at best)?
I posit that there are people who hate/ridicule Macs, but it doesn't necessarily mean they think Windows is neato.
Can anyone prove me wrong? Have you heard someone actually say "I think windows is great" who didn't have MS stock options?
The people who were gonna buy will buy anyways and the people who weren't, won't..
And if you RTFA, you'll discover that their seats were all taken up, and people who wanted to buy couldn't get a seat and so left. Additionally, people who liked the vibrant culture of the old coffeehouse might have found the new Nerdville a little less appealing.
Bottom line is that revenue went UP when the WiFi was turned off. So that means that regular customers either 1) now could actually get a table, 2) preferred the new environment, or 3) both.
Satellite antennas in my pocket scare me. I don't care how safe "they" say they are, I'd just rather not take my chances. And besides, I prefer XM to Sirius.
Great troll, man. That was a troll, right? Because you aren't honestly dumb enough to think a satellite receiver can give you cancer, are you?
Hey, Windows users: Use whatever you like. I don't give a fuck. If one of you decides that switching to the Mac is a good idea, it really donesn't make my preference of computers any better.
As long as they unplug that broadband connection, then I completely agree with you! Otherwise, they are zombies that provide a platform for attacking or spamming my non-MS machine.
Should I remain totally silent and keep my opinion to myself? Well, last time I checked negative criticism was still a legal and moral practice. In my opinion this whole bashing accusation is a load of crap.
Something can be legal and moral and STUPID. Stating a truth isn't always smart or even necessary. For example, I don't go up to handicapped people and say "Pardon me, but you have no legs." Mainly because it accomplishes nothing.
When one feels compelled to make criticisms about something, one might question what the motivation is. Self-aggrandizement generally isn't be best one. In this case, no one using Firefox or Mozilla did so after seriously questioning Netscape. Netscape mainly sucks. Anyone reading his article would almost certainly 1) know this, and 2) agree. So what did he accomplish? No one was educated. No one was swayed. Not only that, his comments have been revealed as rather disingenious, being that the bugs are Firefox/Mozilla's to begin with.
Bottom line, he made himself look like a complete ass without accomplishing anything. Yes, as we all know and you really don't need to remind us, the 1st amendment protects his rights, but doesn't protect him from being an ass.
I think some sympathy is in order for these folks.
Yes, sympathy is justified. And I say this as my brother in law was just laid off. But just because we feel sorry for them - and I do - doesn't mean IBM is wrong to let them go. The unionists point to the fact that IBM is making a profit to justify their jobs. But that's irrelevant - should IBM wait until they're in the red overall to reduce their payroll? Is the situation of the overall company more important than individual divisions? What if IBM is okay but they have a division hemhorraging money? Can they get rid of that division or not?
Bottom line, there comes a time when a company needs to change direction, and unfortunately that means bad things for people. And yes, we should feel sorry for them. And yes, IBM should provide them with decent severance. But it doesn't mean that IBM has to keep them on forever.
This is, of course, assuming we're talking about Intel chips being used in Macs (with an OS X compiled to run on it) and not a generic version of OS X being developed that'll run on IBM PC clones, which is an entirely different issue.
I won't bet against Apple switching to Intel chips (it would shut the whole *Motorola is teh SuXorz!* argument down fast), but Mac OS will never run on clones so long as Apple is getting most of their money from hardware.
It's not often that one of my/. posting is not only interesting but useful to somebody! I hope you find NetLab to be as useful as it might be.
Me too! It has some features that we've been thinking of implementing at work, and it's easy to get people to try things if they're free.
You've motivated me to at least take a look at porting NetLab to octave this summer. I won't be taking classes and I need to learn how these paradigms work and how to build them, so this might be a good learning experience - although knowing all the idiosyncracies of both MatLab and Octave syntax and APIs may not be considered useful knowledge!!:O) I'd really like to see an OpenGL interface for Octave. I think I may have seen some info that someone was doing that, but I can't find it now.
That'd be useful. I'd say that a more robust interface between Octave and Matlab plotting would be useful in general. Octave uses Gnuplot I believe. In porting pretty much anything to Octave, plotting seems to be the stumbling block.
In my Machine Learning class at Portland State U, we've been using the Netlab toolbox from Aston University Neural Computing Research Group, which is a set of Matlab libraries and programs. I haven't used Matlab's own neural network tools or done any of this stuff in my working life, but NetLab is at least a good learning tool, and is itself GPL.
That's an interesting package. I'll guess that it isn't as full-featured as the Matlab version, and in fact seems to have a somewhat different focus. I'd almost say it's a fairly decent complement to the Matlab toolkit, actually.
Naturally the big stumbling block for corporate development would be the GPL, but it is free, so one can't complain. Still, it'd be nice to see somebody compete with Matlab. A lot of times it's the toolkits, not base matlab, that ends up costing $$$$$. Usually when someone makes a good add-on toolkit, Matlab buys them out, as with Kohonen's SOM toolkit, but to his credit he does still release a GPL version.
There are some things in the Netlab toolkit that might do what I need for some current projects at work, though, so thanks!
Holding back by a few hours until vendors can merge the fixes with any customizations they have done actually equalizes the users, in that all end users have access to the fixes for their particular build at the same time, regardless of where they get their builds from.
And that's good why? If a fix is out and I'm running something mission-critical, I want it now. If your distro is slow, get another distro - or better yet - install it your f**king self using the version Mozilla puts out. It's really not hard. Sometimes, I swear, I think some people would be incapable of installing software if they didn't have a package from their distro. Of course I imagine it's obvious what distro I use.;)
It might be easier if you have no idea how to really use a computer, and are not willing to learn. Those people will never leave the "comfort" of a familiar thing. They fear change, especially when it forces them to actually think for themselves.
I assume, then, you also do all your own maintenance on your car? Or are you still using "proprietary" automobiles because you don't "really know how to use" a car, and aren't "willing to learn."
You have no more right to condescend to a typical computer user than a mechanic does to you.
There is no "purpose" of surround where music is concerned. The infrastructure is there due to movies, and musicians will do whatever they want with it.
Or there's always "borrowing someone's CD." And bad mixing/mastering isn't limited to surround, there's always everyone's favorite method of screwing up music, over-levelling.
Slashdot Mirror
Implying a weak correlation, not a causality.
Why the hell would you run a server on Pear? And what's Lemon, a BeOS emulator?
You're using evidence of how fast bugs get fixed to show how easy they are to find. Not buying it.
I'm not saying each of his assertions is specifically wrong, but that they're basically unfounded and are more "pretty" analogies than founded analysis.
1. Linus didn't say that, Raymond did. 2. By your own analysis, all famous open-source projects should be bug-free, right? Like Firefox, right?
Stop drinking the kool-aid. Open source is not a panacea for all software development problems, and Raymond made a lot of sweeping generalities in the book you're quoting, many which make for great sound bites but are absolutely irrelevant.
That's simply not true. The spammers may not be clever, but there are black-hat programmers who recognize the need and write easy-to-use software for generating spam that gets around filters. Have you not seen emails from someone named, say, "Rectum G. Arboretum" that has an advertising image, and a passage from an encyclopedia at the bottom to get past your filter? That's spam software at work. And when that first came out, it was really effective.
That's very true, but as [G|g]od is my witness, I have never met a Windows zealot. I've met people who think Mac OS sucks. I used to be one before X, but I suppose the point is I'm now writing this on a powerbook.
However, I've never met anyone who is a Windows fan in the way that mac-heads are apple fans. And again, I say this as a fairly neutral powerbook owned.
I know there are *Intel* jocks who get into the whole PC hardware thing, but is there actually anyone who thinks of Windows as more than a means to an end (at best)?
I posit that there are people who hate/ridicule Macs, but it doesn't necessarily mean they think Windows is neato.
Can anyone prove me wrong? Have you heard someone actually say "I think windows is great" who didn't have MS stock options?
And if you RTFA, you'll discover that their seats were all taken up, and people who wanted to buy couldn't get a seat and so left. Additionally, people who liked the vibrant culture of the old coffeehouse might have found the new Nerdville a little less appealing.
Bottom line is that revenue went UP when the WiFi was turned off. So that means that regular customers either 1) now could actually get a table, 2) preferred the new environment, or 3) both.
Great troll, man. That was a troll, right? Because you aren't honestly dumb enough to think a satellite receiver can give you cancer, are you?
As long as they unplug that broadband connection, then I completely agree with you! Otherwise, they are zombies that provide a platform for attacking or spamming my non-MS machine.
Something can be legal and moral and STUPID. Stating a truth isn't always smart or even necessary. For example, I don't go up to handicapped people and say "Pardon me, but you have no legs." Mainly because it accomplishes nothing.
When one feels compelled to make criticisms about something, one might question what the motivation is. Self-aggrandizement generally isn't be best one. In this case, no one using Firefox or Mozilla did so after seriously questioning Netscape. Netscape mainly sucks. Anyone reading his article would almost certainly 1) know this, and 2) agree. So what did he accomplish? No one was educated. No one was swayed. Not only that, his comments have been revealed as rather disingenious, being that the bugs are Firefox/Mozilla's to begin with.
Bottom line, he made himself look like a complete ass without accomplishing anything. Yes, as we all know and you really don't need to remind us, the 1st amendment protects his rights, but doesn't protect him from being an ass.
What about swap? Seems that would still take it down relatively quickly.
I'll introduce you to the concept of "causality" sometime.
Thank $DEITY if you did.
In other news, Star Wars Episode III opens in theaters. But I'm sure the timing is coincidental.
Sadly, I'm not sure if the above was sarcasm, having lost the ability to distinguish after witnessing Hayden Christensen's acting.
Yes, sympathy is justified. And I say this as my brother in law was just laid off. But just because we feel sorry for them - and I do - doesn't mean IBM is wrong to let them go. The unionists point to the fact that IBM is making a profit to justify their jobs. But that's irrelevant - should IBM wait until they're in the red overall to reduce their payroll? Is the situation of the overall company more important than individual divisions? What if IBM is okay but they have a division hemhorraging money? Can they get rid of that division or not?
Bottom line, there comes a time when a company needs to change direction, and unfortunately that means bad things for people. And yes, we should feel sorry for them. And yes, IBM should provide them with decent severance. But it doesn't mean that IBM has to keep them on forever.
I won't bet against Apple switching to Intel chips (it would shut the whole *Motorola is teh SuXorz!* argument down fast), but Mac OS will never run on clones so long as Apple is getting most of their money from hardware.
Me too! It has some features that we've been thinking of implementing at work, and it's easy to get people to try things if they're free.
You've motivated me to at least take a look at porting NetLab to octave this summer. I won't be taking classes and I need to learn how these paradigms work and how to build them, so this might be a good learning experience - although knowing all the idiosyncracies of both MatLab and Octave syntax and APIs may not be considered useful knowledge!! :O) I'd really like to see an OpenGL interface for Octave. I think I may have seen some info that someone was doing that, but I can't find it now.
That'd be useful. I'd say that a more robust interface between Octave and Matlab plotting would be useful in general. Octave uses Gnuplot I believe. In porting pretty much anything to Octave, plotting seems to be the stumbling block.
Good luck.
That's an interesting package. I'll guess that it isn't as full-featured as the Matlab version, and in fact seems to have a somewhat different focus. I'd almost say it's a fairly decent complement to the Matlab toolkit, actually.
Naturally the big stumbling block for corporate development would be the GPL, but it is free, so one can't complain. Still, it'd be nice to see somebody compete with Matlab. A lot of times it's the toolkits, not base matlab, that ends up costing $$$$$. Usually when someone makes a good add-on toolkit, Matlab buys them out, as with Kohonen's SOM toolkit, but to his credit he does still release a GPL version.
There are some things in the Netlab toolkit that might do what I need for some current projects at work, though, so thanks!
You cheated! ;)
And that's good why? If a fix is out and I'm running something mission-critical, I want it now. If your distro is slow, get another distro - or better yet - install it your f**king self using the version Mozilla puts out. It's really not hard. Sometimes, I swear, I think some people would be incapable of installing software if they didn't have a package from their distro. Of course I imagine it's obvious what distro I use. ;)
Hell, Octave still can't do decent 3D plotting.
Did you notice that TiVo's leadership quit? And most of your argument contains "potential?" And that TiVo traded DirecTV for Comcast (a downgrade)?
Your argument sounds like a junk-bond prospectus.
I assume, then, you also do all your own maintenance on your car? Or are you still using "proprietary" automobiles because you don't "really know how to use" a car, and aren't "willing to learn."
You have no more right to condescend to a typical computer user than a mechanic does to you.
Or there's always "borrowing someone's CD." And bad mixing/mastering isn't limited to surround, there's always everyone's favorite method of screwing up music, over-levelling.