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Sirius in Negotiations With Apple
An anonymous reader writes "Sirius Satellite Radio Chief Executive Mel Karmazin announced that his company is in talks with Apple about bringing satellite radio to the iPod. Karmazin met with Steve Jobs Monday and he says the technology is the easy part. The hard part is negotiating just how they will split the profit from equipment and monthly subscriptions." We've covered this before, but now it seems they are getting "more Sirius," or something.
I think the difficult part is neither the income sharing neither the technology. It's the antenna. Maybe Apple should come up with a sexy designer hat made of titanium that has the satellite antenna on top. That would kick ass.
What I would like is something similar to bemused, but not Symbian only. For example controling my hifi with a nintendo DS would be nifty.
I know he's just trying to make sirius look more viable since they seem to be losing out to XM, but shouldn't he consider Apple's general attitude towards not announcing stuff ahead of time and keep his mouth shut.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
"more Sirius"
/. since januari 1970.
that's the best wordplay on
Hivemind harvest in progress..
I wonder if this would suck up more battery... That seems to be one of the factors many people look at when buying these mp3 players.
Greed over technology.
As a subscriber to Sirius sat. radio AND an owner of Apple machines, I like the idea of being able to hear my favorite sat. radio stations on my iPod. Hopefully, the route they take will finally make that an affordable reality.
Gee, I don't think I've ever seen that incredibly hilarious pun anywhere else...
How much would this change the format of the iPod? As far as I remember (which isn't much I must admit) satellite radios must require some sort of antenna to pick up the signal. Would a relatively bulky add-in be required to pick up the signal?
Evidently Sirius will be teaming up with Mr. Adam Curry who helped to make podcasting famous (and could arguably be the "inventor" of podcasting).
This kind of a system may benefit both Sirius and Apple. Rather than trying to make some sort of Apple/Sirius bastard child, perform an Audible like system: subscribers to Sirius could get satellite shows and download them as podcasts as well automatically through iTunes, or do a "Sirius Lite" with delayed Podcast versions of shows available for a monthly fee (again, like Audible).
Apple sells more iPods (especially if they do it as an exclusive), Sirius would get more subscribers (heck, I've no interest in a satellite radio system, but I'd pay a small monthly service fee for good radio/music shows I could auto-sync to my iPod - key word "good"), and consumers - eh, I'll let individuals decide if its good for them or not.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
lets prove that.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Satellite radio will drain the battery quicker than you can say "Steve Jobs".
What is so great about it and is it available in Canada or outside of North America for that matter?
I would not want to pay extra for a feature on an iPod if it is useless when I travel to europe.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Let's face it, the scales were pretty even for XM and Sirius, but with Howard Stern going to Sirius all the weight goes to Sirius. They're selling units faster than they can make them. If an ipod+Sirius deal goes down, forget it, XM is finished.
This is a good idea. Get the technology to a robust place, and then worry about making it portable; of course, it's already in cars, but cars a lot bigger than iPods.
Overall, the idea is great. I'd love to have satellite radio in my iPod, I'm just not keen on paying for it. Also, will it drain more battery power than playing a song off the HD, or less?
If it's seemlessly built into the iPod, and the interface can be accessed from the iPod's screen I don't see anything holding this back except the monthly fee.... which is necessary to provide many stations commercial-free. I just wish there was another way.
Electric Monkey Pants
Would it really be that hard to add a radio? And I don't want satellite radio. Sorry, Steve.
Ah well. If an iPod had radio, I might tempted to get one, and I've sworn a holy oath never to give Apple any of my money because of their business practices. :D
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Surely it has to suck less than regular radio.
From TFA:
said the company has "had discussions with everyone," including makers of cell phones, digital music players and other devices.
It wasn't just Apple, its just a generalized thing
Mod Parent -1: sucks!
Steve Jobs: Nope.
Sirrus: I'll be your friend!
Steve Jobs: Nope.
Sirrus: If you don't put us in the iPod, I'll sign an exclusive deal with RealPlayer!
(pause)
Sirrus & Steve Jobs: AHAHAHAHH!
Sirrus: That's a good one. But seriously, how about putting us in the iPod?
Steve Jobs: Nope.
-Crow T. Trollbot
Equals battery time of about three minutes. Now we know that Apple would not sell such a device, so that must mean that they have developed a nuke-battery pack that can last a couple of hours.
This advancement in batteries is the breakthrough the planet earth has been waiting for. I hope Steve gets a Nobel for it.
What's also amazing is how Apple has been able to keep it under wraps and out of the blogs for so long.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
The first idea that comes to mind is the ability to have Sirius capabilities in your car using an iPod to tape adapter, Sirius at work, gym, home, fishing, everywhere. Then when radio starts sucking, switch over to MP3s in the same device. Very cool if the subscription price is the same.
Perhaps pressure from mobile phone manufacturers prompted Jobs to take Sirius a little more siriusly. iPod's cool but let's face it, it's main selling point is cachet. Apple needs to look into expanding iPod's repertoire now that serious competition is just around the corner in an integrated device like the Nokia N91, which offers multiformat music playback with on the fly purchasing and download, web browsing, telephony, messaging, PDA functionality, gaming, etc.
~Someday, I hope to be an aspiring author.
Sattelite radio on the iPod would indeed be cool, but I'd much rather see FM radio first. Lots of competing products have it, and it's a pretty nifty feature that is free to use, unlike satellite radio. And Apple wouldn't have to worry about splitting profits with anyone else.
Sirius, the brightest star in the northern hemisphere! Finally ET has landed and contacted Apple. The iPod will be the first product to be sold extraterrestrially!
Wait and see!
Now directly from Sirius: ETPod!
I'll be so happy if Apple's macsot, Moof! the cow dog, finally gets a playmate. He hasn't had much to do since OS X was released.
Yes, we all know that sattelites are in space, where it's a vacuum, making any sattelite radio service suck.
Wasn't this the company with the marketing department comprising a bunch of jerks who were first against the wall when the revolution came?
Since Sirrus has lots of Satallite Radio channels. Maybe Apple can sell Podcasts of Sirrus radio channels to iTunes 4.9 users.
Not quite satallite radio, but a neat way of delievering quality content to iPods.
This way people could copy yesterday's episode of Howard Stern to their iPod, and listen to it inside an underground bunker with no outside communication.
Sirius signed a contract with Stern, who will be producing quite a few shows. The big question is will his listenership follow? If a large enough percentage of them do, Sirius stands poised to take the lead in the satellite market share race. Maybe a monster one.
Hooking up iPods with Sirius would be quite interesting . . . maybe an XM killer.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Aside from having to strap an antenna on your head to use this (you'll know what I mean if you've ever used any portable satellite radio), the awful and somewhat embarrassing sound quality will be VERY noticeable when it's played right beside actual CD quality audio. It's gotten so bad with both Sirius and XM that normal non-nerds are complaining about it.
Most of the time you ignore it...but going from a track ripped in Apple lossless format to satellite radio will be like jumping back 10 years in technology.
I own an Archos Gmini 200 and love it. The 20GB model was cheaper and physically smaller than the 20GB model iPod, and it works nearly as well. The only reasons I'd ever really want an iPod is 1) if I suddenly developed a fear of being considered un-trendy and 2) for that touch wheel! The Gmini has a nice music library and everything, but it is sometimes a pain to scroll through it (you have to hold the little nub down and wait for it to accelerate).
Lacking the easy scrolling is not a tragedy, but not having access to my large collection of wma files is. Yea, I know.. slaughter me for using wma over mp3 or ogg, but all of my legally owned music is ripped into variable bit rate wma files which sound great and are smaller than Mp3s.
I can't really see the addition of Syrius to the iPod really giving me or anyone else a reason to switch if they can deal with my two points mentioned above. People with large HD mp3 players have lots of their own music. Maybe if you could press a button and download a song off the satellite (and then actually manage to get them off of your iPod)....
http://brandonbloom.name
How do you sleep at night, CowboyNeal?
So they are not merging with XM I take it? At least not for now? Maybe they are trying to get themselves to look more juicy to XM and get a higher price?
Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard
Attaching a sattelite radio devie is going to mean at the very least a $50 price bump. The iPods price is already ridiculous enough.
Great troll, man. That was a troll, right? Because you aren't honestly dumb enough to think a satellite receiver can give you cancer, are you?
I do a lot of boating and as such spend long periods of time just "hanging out" over a weekend listening to music. The progression of most of my peeps has been from the cd changer to the MP3 CD Player, and now to the IPod for long periods of uniterrupted music. A lot of folks have gotten XM/Sirius to get commercial free music too. An IPod/Satellite radio would definately be a "two birds with one stone" product - even better if you can record radio onto the Ipod.
This seems like better news for Apple than for Sirius. The boom in iPod sales, while not over yet by any means, isn't what it was six months ago (where inventory was hard to keep). Adding a new feature not present in any current iPod means that a sizable part of the satellite radio market becomes Apple customers as well (even if they already have an iPod or three).
But Sirius, fundamentally as a subscription service, is most likely going to sell a similar number of subscriptions regardless of whether the thing works like an iPod as well.
In fact, there is one feature that would decide whether Sirius (or XM, for that matter) would benefit from packaging their service with the iPod: Can you use the iPod to record from satellite radio and play it back later?
tinfoil hat?
We've covered this before, but now it seems they are getting "more Sirius," or something.
CowboyNeal, I love you.
Random and weird software I've written.
"Sirius fishing for anyone willing to partner with them to sell more stuff."
Nothing to see here. Move along.
-EvilMagnus
Is a small "patch" antenna that can be placed remotely from the receiver. It's about the same size as a deck of cards.
Reception seems to be possible indoors, with the antenna placed near a window, to about the same extent that you can get a lock on a similarly-placed GPS receiver.
My friends that have the units say they sometimes but don't always lose the signals going under highway bridges.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
I am not really so interested in a personal MP3 player. I think I must be the only person in my market demographic who is not.
But... a combination portable hard drive and satellite radio player? That sounds much more interesting. Include some kind of PVR-like ability to record satellite radio shows to iPod and dump them into iTunes later, and holy crap, I'm there.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
It's not about adding features. If it were all about feature count, Netscape would be the best browser ever.
The iPod serves a simple purpose. It does it well, it is not ugly while doing it, and it is easy to use. Please do not suggest that FM radio would not further complicate the device, because it certainly would.
Besides, why would you want to listen to the utter crap which is today's ClearChannel dominated FM radio landscape? Do you not have enough advertisements and reptition in your life?
Yes. Darn them for trying to make money. Darn them for an excellent service record marred mostly by the intense expectations of their users (call Dell and complain that "your fans are too loud" and expect to be taken seriously. I dare you)! Darn them for being so... so... successful! Here at Slashdot, we don't take kindly to success.But you know what? keep your iPod money. I'm pretty sure Apple can cope with the loss.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
Check out ItsOnSIRIUS for an up-to-the-minute list of what Sirius is currently playing, and a searchable log of what they've played in the past. Enter the name of a band you think doesn't suck, and I bet you'll find that Sirius plays them.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
I hope they agree on something soon and get the technology to us.
If you're going to put the ability to tune into Sirius on an iPod, why not go all the way and put the streaming radio stations from iTunes onto the iPod? Or even Shoutcast stations (which work in iTunes)?
If they do sign a deal, Apple should make sure it's non-exclusive. That way, if they don't like the way Sirus treats them, they can always talk to XM.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Sirius? Bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes, if you ask me.
..is that you *don't talk about talking with Steve Jobs* seriously.. it pisses him off.
I am a fan of Howard Stern but I really see Stern being a huge gamble on Sirius's part. Howard is really getting sick of broadcasting, and if Sirius doesn't tank before Howard gets on, I really cant see him finishing his 5 year contract. Even though I like Howard, I personally am going to be getting XM. Why? Because I think the company is better - I do not want to invest in a company that I think is going to tank.
I like the fact that my iPod isn't trying to irradiate me every living second, akin to my cellphone.
How about a useful PIM suite? Jesus christ.
NO THANKS STEVE-O
Hear that, that static? That is the sound of Clear Channel execs loosing steam from their ears. One thing that the sat. radio folks don't have is market penetration with their devices. You can go out of your way to get one in your car; sometimes they come standard. But really, I don't know anyone with sat. radio.
On the other hand, I know about 20 people who have iPods. And it looks like that trend is going to continue. Although you'll probably have to upgrade your iPod to make this work--or maybe get a hardware dongle--I don't think that would be a serious barrier over time.
Clear Channel just got leapfrogged, mostly because they have a sanitized and unoriginal lineup, with ads. In 15 years the folks that only have access to FM radio may be the same folks who don't have cell phones. Too bad for CC. They bought a condo on a swamp, and mistook sanitizing for competitiveness.
--
$tar -xvf
You mean "that's the best wordplay on
If you did mean that, then I doubt that I will read anything remotely as clever until at least 2038-01-19T03:14:07Z.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
To say that a dinner between Mel and Steve amounts to being "in talks" is jumping the gun a bit. More of a "feeling out" perhaps. It would take months of negotiations to get a deal hammered out, not just a few dinners between the head honchos. Further, I highly doubt they could cram the necessary hardware into an iPod and still have the chicness that Steve requires with a decent battery time.
;)
Wishful thinking in my eyes and who knows, Apple has suprised us before with their outsourced engineering.
That said I have Sirius and a whole lot of Apple hardware. It would be neat this happened but as unlikely as it would be for the hardware to become a reality, it would be even hard for them to make it work on an iPod mini which I much prefer to the (in my opinion) bulky iPod.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
Even though I like Howard, I personally am going to be getting XM. Why? Because I think the company is better - I do not want to invest in a company that I think is going to tank.
What, huh ? This move will increase their subscriber base, going with Apple is plus-plus-good. And having Howard Stern will only make it that much more attractive..
Do you work for XM ?
I'll take you up on your bet, and I win, I tried a few groups and turned up no hits, also the search is slow as hell, and buggy, kept insisting I was entering blank fields.
Go try it yourselves, you'll see.
If you're going to put the ability to tune into Sirius on an iPod, why not go all the way and put the streaming radio stations from iTunes onto the iPod? Or even Shoutcast stations (which work in iTunes)?
Uh, because Sirius is a proprietary satellite radio network. Not some IP-based satellite radio service. Your understanding of the technology needs some work.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
Seems like that would be much more difficult. Apple doesn't (AFAIK) own any satellites, and I'm guessing that Sirius/XM aren't going to give up any of their own satellite power for this. That's just the iTunes stations...the Shoutcast stuff just seems logistically impossible to me.
Satellite stations are discrete, named, require no tuning (the channel is there or it isn't), do not change based on locale.
FM radio stations not, not, not any of these things. You could represent Sat. stations as playlists trivially, and they would conform to the user's expectations. You cannot do the same with FM if you travel more than a few miles in any given direction.
FM radio is an inherently crufty user experience. XM is not. Think about it.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
No, I do not work for XM.
IMO, it seems like Sirius wants an iPod because their equipment is crap. People will not spend 12.95 a month just to listen to Howard.
The fact he is on there can be great for Sirius, but I really can't see them making any money with him when they spent a huge fortune to get him there.
I think it will be a mistake on Apple's part if they invest in Sirius.
Now that he announced it... he can be sure Steve Jobs is so pissed that it won't be in the iPod. Ever.
Spread the virus!
http://www.wackbag.com/
http://www.opieandanthony.com/
In my area (near Apple HQ in fact), there are quite a few good radio stations, none of them owned by Clear Channel / Infinity / Disney / etc. Not everyone is as fortunate as I am, but nearly everyone has a nearby NPR affiliate at least.
-- $SIGNATURE
apple.
...
"If we don't do a deal, our current business plan is just fine," Karmazin said.
Consumer choice.
New ipod with satrad
OR
satrad with player and option to buy tunes through satrad?
Apples choice.
Next generation ipod with compelling feature. Repackage same old with enhancements to player like better fidelity, more formats,
Which will sell more ipods, rpods, or irpods?
Serius and XM choice.
Device and market from scratch or build on hottest thing since sliced bread?
Cost of entry and ROI with Apple will not preclude roll-your-own for satrad guys, unless Jobs is smart enough and they are dumb enough to sign a no-compete, but this leaves the other player on the satrad side with options so it will never happen. It(Serius) isn't that crazy.
What would 'already own an ipod' folks buy?
Add on?
New Ipod with radio?
Something with ipod functionality and style and satrad function from satrad company?
What about you 'don't have an ipod' folks?
Ipod and add on?
What if the satrad guys OR Apple built price into subscription fee, like a cell phone with 2 year contract?
Periodic billing costs a lot, the satrad guys have it in place. Would tying satrad capable ipod into a pay by the month deal boost the heck out of satrad ipod sales?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hear these guys negotiating. So much so that I'd be willing to pay the price of a shuffle to hear it in real time! How about it Steve and Kaz? Revenue for yakking!
Being a Howard Stern fan myself, I have to disagree. It seems that what's really making Stern sick of broadcasting is the FCC with its increasing demands/pressure considering what is "decent" enough to broadcast. The only reason he's on terrestrial radio now is to fulfill his contract, and he often openly begs Viacom to just fire him already.
Since he doesn't have to deal with the FCC on Sirius, he may have a whole new attitude. For fans of Howard Stern it might be worth listening to, especially when he's just starting out on Sirius.
Happy people make bad consumers.
SIRIUS has been winning a lot of battles on fronts other than Howard Stern.
"[...]his company is in talks with Apple [...]" should read: "had discussions with everyone"
And "Karmazin met with Steve Jobs Monday" should be: Monday night at "D: All things digital", he pestered some industry figures he accidently stumbled upon. Steve Jobs most likely thought: "Who is this guy and should I call security to get rid of him?"
Amen on the ogg part. Maybe with QT7 we'll see Apple open up a little. I know the machine is capable of decoding it, and now QuickTime certainly could support the codec.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
Monday Night Football in my car sounds like a great way of listening to the game. Football is a great game to watch, not listen.
Personally I think listening to Baseball on XM is a lot more exciting.
But sure you can now hear him say fuck on Sirius but you still can't see any of the hotties naked, nor can you see it on E! since they blur it. Last time I checked, the FCC didn't regulate cable television, especially past 10 pm.
...what is SETI making of the entire exchange?
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
Apple being the only company that doesnt act evil on Slashdot should take a look at itself.
They claimed that bringing the radio to the ipod would add complexity that users "don't want".
Well, I'd prefer to listen to FREE radio broadcasts than pony up yet cash to yet another service provider.
Why is this modded down? It's not any less insightful that a lot of the other comments in this discussion.
Just look at stock prices it says it all. oh and I guess you can get sirius and listen to Martha Stewart WaaHoo!!
Parent post is lying, this is the guy from above and I searched and did in fact find such bands as French Kicks.
Look, I won't deny people know how to use FM radio. That's great. I never said they didn't.
What I am saying is that the iPod user experience and metaphor does not mesh well with FM. The iPod is not terribly good at making playlists (or setting presets) on the fly. It can do it, yes. But its user interface is optimized for browsing, not editing. Traditionally we do our playlist editing in a helper program like iTunes.
Sat. radio is a much nicer fit to the iPod user experience, which is therefore easier than FM to understand on the iPod.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
So far most of the speculation here seems to be limited to listening to/recording Sirius broadcasts onto the iPod.
Think about it though - a Sirius receiver on an iPod is a receiver for a digital satellite signal, capable of receiving arbitrary data from a satellite in the sky anywhere in the country.
Normally this data is a multitude of "channels" of medium-quality audio. But imagine if some bandwidth from the audio channels was set aside for iPod use. Automatic iPod Software updates? A "Download to Sirius-enabled iPod" option in iTunes so you could buy an album online and walk out the door without having to wait for the download to the computer and the sync from computer to iPod?
I could speculate more (quite possibly beyond the actual limits of what their satellites are actually capable of) but if I were Jobs I'd be asking "So, you want us to piggyback your subscription service onto our already incredibly successful product, potentially increasing your market share by some massive percentage and providing content to the machine that competes with what we already sell (at cost) from our Music Store. OK, so what's in it for us?"
Of course, he might also be negotiating with them to give Apple better leverage over the cell phone companies whose bandwidth-stinginess has brought the development and launch of the iTunes-enabled Motorola phone (and likely corresponding iTunes Mobile Store) to a standstill.
Or maybe not. It's just dinner after all.
I think people will spend $12.95 a month for Stern, plus all the other channels I know I am going to. Not to mention that Clear Channel owns a percentage of XM so even if Howard wasn't on Sirius I wouldn't buy XM because of that connection.
~S
Worked for me, and for the other AC who replied to you. Make sure you use the right search page.. it looks like you'll get an error if you try searching from the form that appears after a failed search.
What names are you searching for? Something the rest of us might've heard of, I hope.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Sirius as in Sirius Cybernetics?! I can see that happening with Apple!
Ino!~
Doesn't seem like it would really bring that much to the table unless you could somehow figure out how to allow users to record the songs from Sirius to their iPod.
Let Sirius get the monthly sat subscribtion, and Apple gets their $1 song cash. That model might make some sense. Otherwise I don't really see any huge benefit to this melding.
I know from personal experince that Sirius works just fine in Montreal, though its not available in Alaska. They could add more satellites to increase coverage area, (assuming they have the cash, BIG ASSUMPTION).
Sirius has an agreement with the CBC to Canadianize Sirius for that market.
Sirius is great becaue with 65 commercial free channels, there is always something to listen to for every taste. Since each genre has its own station, DJs can play songs that don't get played on regular radio. I listen to the 80s alternative station "First Wave" a lot. It has played a lot of songs I haven't heard since the eighties.
Sirius also has the NHL (if they ever get their act together), NFL and NBA.
If you like news its got the BBC, 2 NPR stations, PRI (which plays "As it Happens"), CNN, and the World Radio Network amoung others.
you just sold me on it. Boycotting conservative Clear Channel is the best reason I have heard yet.
sorry, says what?
Sirius can turn this into a money-making equation if the cost of receiving podcasted content wins out over the delay of waiting for pirated Sirius material on the internet.
I think Sirius can do this. It shouldn't cost too much more than having an iPod and a Sirius subscription at the same time. But, Apple has the upper hand in these negotiations.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
I'm getting sick of the clearchannel owns them bullshit. Clearchannel owns acouple percent. They used to own more, but divested themselves acouple of years ago. They have no control. They own about 2% of the company.
Offtopic, I know, but I've heard a few grumblings (on Howard Stern, among other not-quite-trustworthy places) that satellite radio is really just a testing ground to move to a new model of delivering satellite TV. Anyone else think this might be a possibility?
Damn, someone beat me to it.
And while they have all of this content, they only got it by dramatically overpaying for it. XM has, to their credit, refused to play that game. Meanwhile, Sirius has been ignoring certain less sexy aspects that drives growth in this medium.
Sirius is losing the car partnership race. Folks that buy new cars have something like a 30-50% conversion rate for whatever ships in the cars. That is becoming, increasingly, XM. Their new deal with Hyundai is going to probably bring in more subscribers than Stern ever would, but it didn't cost half a billion.
Sirius is also seen as losing the hardware race. They don't have the resources to make desirable hardware. XM isn't doing the best here, either, but they're doing better than Sirius.
Lastly, Sirius cannot afford to launch another sat, and they need to. They're going to burn a lot of money keeping a repeater network going. XM has the resources to continue lofting birds, and saving money from having less of a ground presence - and eventually, having the sat bandwidth to offer new services.
The fact is that Sirius is acting a lot like a dot.com company. They're betting that they get a lot more subscribers before they burn through the cash - and I think that's a bet that they're going to lose.
Sirius will be calling for a secondary stock offering soon. I'm sure that Stern is going to be just thrilled when his huge deal suddenly is worth a whole lot less. That will be the beginning-of-the-end event for Sirius.
jh
Canadian regulations on cable TV and digital radio stations are very limited. If a given American station covers content that can have a Canadian equivalent, then the American station won't be allowed in by the CRTC. This is done to give exclusive content rights to Canadian stations.
Which, as a Canadian, always really annoyed me. Did you know that the CRTC blocks American commercials from the Superbowl, and instead allows Global to blackout all broadcasts of the Superbowl and instead rebroadcast the feed from the US while silently inserting ads DURING the game (they digitally paint them on surfaces, making it look like billboards, screens, or even fans were showing them) as well as replacing the million-dollar and often entertaining Superbowl commercials with Global's REGULAR commercials?
Yeah, it's really annoying. Personally, I think they should let us watch what we WANT to watch.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
For those who didn't know, Global is a TV station here in Canada.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
XM will get as many as 1 million subcribers every year from their deal with Hyundai - which didn't cost half a billion dollars.
XM currently has 2 million more subs than Sirius. There is simply no way that Sirius is going to catch up, Stern or not.
Sirius paid a lot of money for potential Stern subcribers - at least a couple of hundred bucks each. It is extremely unlikely that Sirius will actually make money on this deal any time soon.
Sirius is betting the farm on some risky deals, while XM has had strong and steady growth - and will absolutely turn a profit years before Sirius does.
Um ... you are aware you're buying a subscription, not stock? There will never, ever be a paid dividend from your subsciption to either service (barring class-action lawsuit payout, but in that case you want to be with the scummier company), and the 'value' of your subscription for resale will always be zero (in fact, you need to dump *more* in every month to keep the same level of 'investment').
"Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
Locking us into Sirius or XM would be a mistake.
If they want that capability then create an add-on for the device.
Sirius must be getting really desperate. They have been tossing money like a drunken sailor trying to get people to pay attention to them. Instead of innovation they appear willing to buy themselves out of the hole they are in.
I like some of the exclusive content they have but see XM as the better of the two.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Sirius are just trying to get some cool by rubbing against Apple (a game everyone seems to be playing these days.) The Satellite Radio-iPod will never happen for the following very simple reasons: 1. Apple have a worldwide market for iPods, but Sirius and XM are only available in the states. Nobody in NZ needs a Sirius iPod. 2. Satellite radio does not meet Apple's fit-and-finish standards: It only works outside unless you have all kinds of clunky antennae apparatus, and even the smallest players are too big for this generation of iPod, let alone the next. 3. Regardless of how good it is, Satellite Radio just doesn't feel like the future, just a regurgitated version of old technology. OK, so 3 is a bit speculative, but i think the other two stand nicely.
Damn. I guess in addition to dropping I.Q. points into the single digits, shock jocks cause mental retardation.
Are you a complete idiot? Do you not understand how stocks work? You can't just look at the price...look at the market capitalization if you want to compare.
Don't forget Hockey, Sirius also has Hockey. (When they actually Play)
If a large enough percentage of them do, Sirius stands poised to take the lead in the satellite market share race. Maybe a monster one.
Sorry I think that Siruis made 2 mistakes with Howard Stern. 1) No one is worth $500 million dollars. 2) Howard Stern alone will not save Sirius.
Sirius is a company that is making some SERIOUS (yuk yuk) mistakes. Paying millions of dollars for celebrity names Martha, Slim Shady, Tony Hawk. Each of these people are great in their respective fields, but as talk radio hosts they have no experience. Siruis is just using their names to attract subscribers. Will this strategy pay off? As of now it isn't since XM has 3 times the subscribers of Sirius. We'll have to see in the future though.
The key to success will be diversity, RADIO diversity. People will want to subscribe to XM or Sirius for what they have to offer in terms of different types of programming. If Howard Stern is the only big name radio personality on Siruis people will ask why should I pay money for ONLY Howard Stern. I would pick up XM because of it's diversity (Nascar and NFL on Sirius do not interest me) and if I'm in the mood for Talk Radio I will listed to Opie and Anthony.
Ohh and one more thing Howard Stern isn't doing as well as people think.
Share and enjoy,
Share and enjoy!
Journey through life with a plastic boy
Or girl by your side...
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Sitting on either side of XM or Sirius, in my experience can be just as bad as sitting on either side of Windows or OS X, so I wont (try not to) troll or go to deap... But why Sirius ?
XM is clearly (right now) the market leader
So what, Sirius is getting Howard Stern. I hate him personally, and i know i dont speak for the majority who probably listen to talk shows, but I listen to satellite radio cause i like music. I can listen to talk shows on the local AM channels.
I know the portable XM player is just about, if not slightly bigger than the iPod
I know as of a couple years ago, not sure if it has changed, Sirius required 7 processors to work compared to XM only using 3
So you are, in 1 way or another talking a bigger iPod or less battery life.
You do need a antenna for satellite (either one)
Dunno, regardless of the iPod halo effect, Apple isnt the biggest player in PC's and I dont think coupling the iPod (biggest kid on the block) with a second rate (dont hurt me) satellite provider is a good idea.
If it was XM and it was live (no pod casting) and it was a reasonable fee i can add on to my current service, in a heart beat id get one
I find alot of new music by just writing down song names I hear on XM.
-2 Cents
NFL, NHL (when it is around, college football, and soon, NASCAR. When sports hounds realize what will become available to them, it'll become the service of choice.
Plus with NPR, the sports fan can tell their non-sports loving significant other: "You get to listen to fresh air on the weekdays."
All other things being equal, I don't see why anyone would choose XM over Sirius. The music, otherwise, is no different.
oooohhhh.
burn
you got him there!!!
Sirius also has the NBA, EPL, and the NHL.
That's good enough for me.
You fuck.
I think I speak for most of America when I say: too late.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
1) Leave the iPod exactly the way it is :>
2) Create a plug in attachment like the iTrip or iTalk
3) Add simple one or two line lcd window, preferably in user changable, multiple, color choices - 3 or 4 would be sufficient
4) Cheap Activated service exclusive for iPod/or other mobile enabled mp3 players with compatible devices.
5) ???
6) PROFIT!
"Howard is really getting sick of broadcasting, and if Sirius doesn't tank before Howard gets on, I really cant see him finishing his 5 year contract."
Since when is Howard Stern getting sick of broadcasting? I listened to him just this morning and he sounded like he was having a great time getting the shit tickled out of him by Juliette Lewis!
On a related note, I saw some of the little XM radio recievers at Fred Meyer the other day and those things were tiny. I don't see much difficulty squishing extra technology into a slightly larger iPod.
You people are so anti-establishment, but suck on the NPR teet without even questioning NPR.
[i]Not to mention that Clear Channel owns a percentage of XM so even if Howard wasn't on Sirius I wouldn't buy XM because of that connection.[/i]
What makes you think Mel Karmazin is any better? He will eventually blur the lines between commercial radio and satellite with bad programming, ads, censorship, and more ads (just like cable TV). Infinity is just as bad as Clear Channel in those aspects and that is what Mel knows because that is what he has done for Infinity & Viacom. He made Infinity profitable by these methods and will try the same with Sirius.
Sound waves should be free!
You also have to realize that while sterns signing with them boosted their sales quite a bit XM themselves have had a recent sales boost and without spending the MEGA bucks on advertising that Sirius has.
Overall (I've owned both) XM offers a better product and they are NOT stupid. XM just passed 4 Million subscribers. Sirius is onlyl dreaming of numbers like that.
Stern? How long do you thing Stern (who has been threatening to retire for years now) is going to BE on Sirius? He'll get bored and sick of it and be threating to retire again, or just stop careing and start "phoneing it in" like he does half the time these days. Add to the fact that according to rumor he will only be on 4 days a week to start with.
Sirius is betting all their hopes on one person. Its a bad move.
Don't forget about the NHL, though what good are broadcasting rights when there are no games played?
Since when is Howard Stern getting sick of broadcasting?
I would say the fact that he is only going to broadcast for 4 days a week live when he moves says he doesn't want to do it anymore.
He really has become a parody of himself in the last 10 years as he slowly shows his "Hollywood" side of himself and claims to own all ideas in broadcasting.
If he plans to be successful in a new medium, he really is going to have to put a lot more effort into it than working 4 days a week. He's basically going to start all over with only a couple hundred thousand listeners at first instead of millions. We'll see how many good celebrity guests will deal with him when he has much less reach - he's really going to have to step up his game.
Sound waves should be free!
I recently bought stock in Sirius, and I stand by my decision.
Additionally, Doug Stanhope has also signed on with Sirius. . . he's appeared on Stern numerous times and there has already been communication between the two about working together creatively.
One other thing that hasn't been bandied about so much are the actual numbers of subscribers - we're talking 1 million for Sirius and 4 million for XM (last I'd read). 3 million new subscribers to Stern isn't unlikely. . . we're talking about a syndicated talk radio host who pioneered the format and has a rabid following. If he nabs 10-15% of his listenership (and it could be a significant amount more) then he's just pulled a coup, and Sirius will be ahead of XM.
WRT Stern's numbers not being so hot - that has a lot to do with the FCC's chilling effect on all radio broadcasting. He doesn't have the freedom he once had and it does impact his show. Without a doubt his show is more stilted than it was 5 years ago (and even less stilted a decade ago) but he's still a guy who gets a ton of listeners and does wield a significant amount of influence.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
You did hear the rumor correctly, but you didn't hear the ending: Sirius and XM trade talks nixed
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Would have been a better title. Or, maybe, "Sirius Seriously considering sleeping with Apple."
Better yet: "Sirius serious about making serial custom cereal audiologically enhanced lapels with Apple's lean mean development team"
Hi, Taco!
I luv you!
Kathleen
I thought they were talking about Sirius Cybernetics Corporation, and was getting all excited about the forthcoming iMarvin. My bad.
My point was, if you're going to stream anything to the iPod, why not the free radio service in iTunes first? What transport technology is underneath is irrelevant.
Is it conceivable that a future iPod could detect if it is in a WiFi hotspot and offer up a new main menu option of "Radio" accordingly?
The issue becomes can the sirius radio work "apple well" inside a heavy jacket or purse? From what I've seen the sirius radios work well indoors, but they're always in the open.
There's also the issue of recording rights. Remember that they made a satillite radio for PC....once... I could see the incentive for a few sirius channels for podcasting... but once you open the door to record you open a huge can of worms.
My Sirius works just fine in northern alberta, thanks :) Most of the rig pigs up here get them imported and overpay for them.
What on Earth makes Apple users so happy to pay for subscription-based services?
If I had to guess, I would bet that Apple is stalling until they can get a software reconfigurable radio in there so that they aren't tied to either XM or Sirius. They don't need to cover the whole spectrum, just those two.
Apple's history suggests that they don't like tying their hardware fate to that of one other company. They won't ink a deal with Sirius unless they can convert that into a deal with XM. Remember, it's in Apple's best interest to create the product with the user in mind - and no consumer wants their network choice to be influenced by the hardware they buy.
That way Apple gets to keep both XM and Sirius from undercutting their hardware market and Apple can use each as leverage against the other. Oh, and the profit-sharing deal is simple - Apple gets all the hardware profits, the other company gets their subscription, and the user gets a free x months, courtesy of the network.
This benefits the networks FAR more than Apple, and Steve will make that clear in no uncertain terms.
Not to mention Rupert Murdoch's investment in XM was the deal killer for me...
I'm all for that satellite scheme, provided us Europeans get to have FM radio instead...
There's some really really good radio on FM in Europe. I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but lots of Americans have already assured me that over there FM sucks...
I think, therefore I am...I think.
iPod w/Sirius - market = subset of above who are US-based Sirius subscribers.
The only way this makes sense is if the iPod has a software radio that can easily be configured for country specific services like DAB in the UK. And reconfigured when you travel. But having to do that would make it too hard to use.
So - case disproved?
--- Yx3 = Delilah ---
Says "oh the technology is the easy part" (ok I'm paraphrasing) If it's so easy, why the fuck doesn't Sirius start making some portable units? I guess the technology _is_ the easy part. Kinda like atom bombs, the tech is the easy part, the process of actually making one is the hard part. It is the _engineering_ that is hard. I'm sure there are some engineers who have heard that sort of shit before "oh it'll be easy". Not to mention the CEO's bias. Yeah, it'll be easy. Won't make it any bigger, or consume any more power I'm sure. I've seen Sirius antenna's that are bigger than an iPod. Though, I guess in cities, they have a terrestrial repeater network. I won't hold my breath waiting for a Sirius iPod.
Would wake up and realize that North American FM covers different frequencies and spacings than Europe or Japan. I'm sure they could make it a worldwide reciever, but FM (in the US anyway) sucks. That is why other manufacturers are making ones with FM, 'cause they can buy a $1 chip, and say, "hey look we've got MP3 and FM". The ipod has a global market. A good FM reciever costs money, and won't work well in a stainless steel case. Not to mention the EMF from a hard drive motor. I've got a toshiba FM stereo reciever from the '80's that is the size of a 9v battery and runs off a AAA cell for hours. If you guys like your FM so much, get an FM radio, they make them even smaller now. Here is one with AM and FM that is about the size of a type I pcmcia card (ok, I know it is "PC Card" now): http://www.audiocubes.com/images/f_sony_srf220.jpg Oh, it's a Sony. It costs $60 but I bet it sounds better than my 20 year old FM only Toshiba.
Don't fuck with the ipod that I like just as it is. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
How come nobody says, hey I want an FM receiver in my cell phone, but everytime there is an iPod discussion on /., someone always chimes in with "if only it had FM radio" or some shit. I think it would be easier to put radio in a cell phone especially, digital radio. Shit, that is my new business plan, Sirius, or XM within the cellphone market. They could use the same towers. OMG! has anyone thought of this? (I'm being rhetorical). It could even turn down the music when you receive a call! kinda like a reverse ringtone! a ringmute!
Satellite radio has only taken off (no pun intended) in the US. The resat of the World is looking to DAB digital radio.
Is this a case of Apple thinking the World ends at the US borders?
Come on, DAB radio requires no subscription, works perfectly and can be used by more people than satellite radio.
hum was thinking sat radio is line a sight right?
So i put the thing in my lead pocket and fuzzzzzzzz....
Anybody else misread this as "Sidious in Negotiations With Apple" ?
Oh, well.. hm.
My guess, if there is to be ipod sat support, then it will be in the form of a third party add-on. I can't imagine Apple selling products for which the subscription was with another company.
What page was that graphic originally displayed on?
Sirius is losing the car partnership race. Folks that buy new cars have something like a 30-50% conversion rate for whatever ships in the cars. That is becoming, increasingly, XM. Their new deal with Hyundai is going to probably bring in more subscribers than Stern ever would, but it didn't cost half a billion.
e etwood Enterprises
Land Roverr y
...and Toyota- though not listed on their web site
from the Sirius website:
Aston Martin
BMW
Chrysler
DaimlerChrysler
Dodge
Fl
Ford
Hertz
Infiniti
Jaguar
Jeep
Lincoln
MINI
Mazda
Mercedes-Benz
Mercu
Monaco Coach Corporation
Nissan
Volvo
from xm's web site:
General Motors Corporation
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Toyota
Audi
Nissan North America
yes, they both have toyota and nissan. Doesn't really look like Sirius is losing the car partnership race. And how is Sirius losing the hardware race? don't feel like researching that one right now but i didn't see your proof for that either.
I thought the Clear Channel connection would be dissapointing if true. (I got a satellite radio to get away from the Clear Channel and Infinity stations) so I looked it up:a se_1999_06_08.html a me=Sirius/CachedPage&c=BioAsset&cid=1100707192159& flash=flash
http://www.xmradio.com/newsroom/screen/press_rele
I also looked at the history of Mel Karmazin:
http://www.sirius.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagen
It seems to me that the small percentage investment that Clear Channel has in XM is nothing compared to the direct leadership of Mel.
While Clear Channel has an investment in XM, I would chose it over Sirius due to the direct direction Sirius receives from Karmazin.
I definitely don't agree about the FCC. I think it's an excuse and cop out by Stern. Instead of putting on an entertaining show he complains about the FCC. Look at Seinfeld (the TV show) and Brian Regan they prove that you can be very entertaining w/o being dirty.
That's a very poor argument. Stern has become popular because of the kind of show he does. If he started doing Seinfeld or Cosby humor he would lose his audience.
As long as Sirius and DirecTV are the only ones with all the football games, I will be a Sirius and DirecTV customer and will not even consider any offer from their competitors. The point is, if a Stern fan is like a football fan, that will make the decision for him.
Listening to radio for Entertainment is not an investment. By the time Serius sinks all your cool devices will be out of date and you will want new ones anyways. if you like the choices on XM then fine but if you like the choices on Serius then go with Serius. You will be loosing money either way.
Cars, Computers, Electronics, and Services are not an investmen, they are consumable items. The best you can do with that type of stuff is find the ones that best fit your needs at the best cost.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I picked Sirius because of NPR as a the sole reason. I love NPR programing without the pledge drive or the guilt associated with not giving money during a pledge drive. Actually you get 2 NPR stations for talk. Howard stern will be an extra bonues as will any sort of apple deal
You can't be serious... uh huh huhuhuhu...(oh jesus bert, the cadaver)
I must be wakewalking through dreams.
XM has two NASCAR channels until 2007. Two years is not what I would call "soon".
XM has Opie and Anthony. Think stern with more shock.
With that said, I will likely go to Sirius in '07 for the NASCAR channels.
Holy s-, it's Jesus!
Just turn it on to your favorite channel and leave it on for a day. Viola - the selections that you like at your command.
However, I am sure that they would hobble it some way so that you can not snag the music. But mayne not.
Does Sirius extend outside of US borders? I thought that either XM or Sirius was only good in either the states or North America.
Their XM offering? I'd love to hear some feedback on how well their show has transitioned. I'm quite interested in picking up XM simply for their show, as the commute I've got nowadays is anywhere from 40 min to 90, and they were my sanity when I lived on Long Island.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Hey the French Kicks are pretty sweet. You found them on Sirius? I saw them a few years ago in Pittsburgh, opening up for The Dismemberment Plan. It was a great show.
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is a tribute.
An addendum to your second point re: transition numbers . . . one unknown is how many people are listening nowadays because they hate Howard. None of them will fork the cash for him, I'd bet money.
Your final point re: dirty/clean - yeah you can be clean. Brian Regan is a brilliant example, but if you've heard him on O&A back in the day, he would get naughty and foul too. Also hilarious.
Seinfeld was the way it was because of the format. And I'd be surprised if a good half dozen episodes wouldn't get put on the air in today's climate. (The Contest springs to mind immediately)
The producers/Tom C are very skittish nowadays and nix a lot of stuff Stern wants to do.
Finally - while you can succeed at being clean, do you really think that's Stern's "voice"? He had a chapter titled Lesbians, Lesbians, Lesbians in his book Private Parts ffs. He's good at what he does but he really is chained nowadays. Meh. I'm defending him way more than he deserves because his show has slid downhill. He's an old man and I never listened to him when I had O&A access. But my point is he has a very large listenership of DEVOTED fans, many of which will move. If enough do, Sirius moves ahead of XM.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
You missed the point entirely. While XM is puting receivers in cars and launching satellites, Sirius will be podcasting shows like Stern and bringing listeners to the hardware by distributing the content through *existing* infrastructure. Have fun with your soon-to-be-defunct XM radio---LOL!
I remember when NPR used to tout itself as commercial free. I haven't heard them say that for years, and I listen regularly. If you haven't noticed the commercial content of NPR going up steadily you haven't been listening to NPR for very long.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Sports? NFL? NASCAR? I could care less.
I have XM, and I'd say, 97% of the time it's pegged on the Punk channel. I don't mean neo-pop-punk like Green Day, Blink 182, etc. I mean real, live, classic, nasty, Punk. The Descendents, Operation Ivy, NOFX, Black Flag, Dead Kennedys. Hell, they even played Mary Prankster last week. Fungus 53!
The 3% of the time I get to drive the car, it's pegged on Air America Radio (and whatever they fill in the programming gaps with).
My main choice for going with XM over Sirius was purely number of subscribers. When I checked XM had something like 5 times as many subscribers. And in a medium that doesn't allow cheap switching from one to the other, that's what drove my switching. It's not like cable vs. satellite, tv where you you just send your monthly check to someone else. With satellite radio you're talking an investment of $100 or more. Plus the monthly fee. That's something most people aren't goni to switch overnight for.
No matter how many Stern fans there are. (There's more to life than Stern, trust me.)
How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
In terms of overall quality, I would have to give the edge to XM:
Ed Uthman, MD
Pathologist, Houston/Richmond, TX, USA
SIRIUS has been winning a lot of battles on fronts other than Howard Stern.
Ditching? What a deluded fanboy you are. XM chose to drop the Nascar contract in favor of saving money. Nascar didn't go anywhere. XM decided to let the contract lapse and Sirius picked them up.
This is because XM acts like a responsible business entity that does real market valuations and cost/earnings analysis, whereas Sirius acts like the typical irresponsible dotcom loon and spends spends spends, regardless of whether or not the expense is worth the projected income. Sirius is spending money like MAD and they have nowhere NEAR the numbers OR the growth that XM is showing. The management there is loony. Chucking money at celebrities is not the way to bring people into the fold. Most people listen to radio for music, not for exclusives. Car manufacturer deals are key. XM is dominating in that regard.
And you say Sirius in winning on "other fronts"? Name them. I don't see a single example.
"We'll see how many good celebrity guests will deal with him when he has much less reach"
I had the opportunity to listen to a lot more of the show this morning, thanks to my increasingly busy schedule, and they were talking about how nice it is not to have guests on by default, like Regis Etc. has to have, and just talk amongst themselves. And I agree. I love hearing them all bullshit around all morning.
"he's really going to have to step up his game."
WTF are you on? He opens his mouth and it's Howard Stern. There's nothing else he has to do!
As long as it's not the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation, everything will be just fine...
How long do you thing Stern (who has been threatening to retire for years now)
When his contract is up and he wants more money.
He'll get bored and sick of it
Bored and sick of being free from the FCC's luddites? I don't think so.