Well if your going to compare Linux and Windows and use Mandrake 5.2 for comparsion. Then you'll have to use Windows 98 as your Windows comparsion. Security? Stable? Windows XP doesn't hold a candle to Linux on these things.
As the IT manager evaluating the cost of switching, I have to ask, "Well, how can you justify the tens of thousands I'll need to spend in training on this new system?"
Well how much are you spending on cleaning up and protecting from virsuses, maleware, spyware, and the times the users kill the system because thay can write at will to the system files? Our TCO has went DOWN! 70% after switching.
At the end of the day, I can't recommend one over the other, but that's why I have to recommend Windows. It's already on your computer, you might as well just use it.
Nope sorry not on this machine nor most in this place. They came with Linux.
Do you really think a law will stop it? Laws aren't worth the paper they are written on if you don't have someone to enforce the laws! We have a law. Ever called the FTC to report a spammer? Ever tried to get the police to arrest a spammer? It doesn't work.
Yes the ISP could monitor the bandwidth on port 25 or just block port 25 and people could still download ISO or large updates. This still wouldn't stop it. Why? What about servers in Russia or China. Do you think american laws have any effect on them? Have you ever tried to contact an admin in China? What a joke.
Just who is going to charge this site for the spam? Even if you find the site how are you going to find the owner? All whois info on a site like this is a lie. ICANN will not drop a site for bad whois info.
Talking aobut the ISP they are using, most use someone like UUNET or a 100 others that do not give two sh_ts what they are doing as long as they are paying the bills. There are ISPs out there that this is where thay make their money. What are you going to do about them?
Why this is modded intresting I do not understand. It is obivous that you don't have to chase these kind of people for a living. None of your ideas will work.
Actually if you get out of the Windows world it all does work seamlessly. Don't forget MS changed the open standards just enough to keep "other" OSs from working and from a Windows world it appears to be the others guys fault. MSXML is not XML. MS Kerbous is not Kerbous. We run a lot of differant flavors of UNIX/Linux here and only the few Windows servers sit in left field because they don't want to play right. The Suns, RedHats, and Novell servers just happily work together each doing there job. They all just tie right in together.
Please do understand I have been a MS engineer since 1991 so I know my way around a Windows Domain and we still support them for some of our customers. Our company has switch and we won't go back. Our management cost have dropped 40%. We now only have Windows for test machines and one workstation to run QuickBooks which is isolated from the outside world. Manage from the same interface? Sure I manage around a 100 servers from this Linux workstation of all kinds including Windows servers and never have to leave my seat except if I have to actually go and hit the on button. Yes this is all done through secure connections too.
Macs where never really meant to be a server platform but a workstation. (and a very good one) If you need the things you mentioned above run Linux on your servers and you Macs will hook right up. Take a good look at Novell SuSE OES it will fill all the above and then some with a lot less headaches then trying to get the Macs to play right in a Windows domain. The great thing is with this Enterprise set up the servers don't care if the workstations are Windows, Mac, or Linux. It just all works.
Our company works with a lot of Graphics companies and of course Mac is their workstation of choice. They love the Linux servers a whole lot better that then Windows servers they replaced.
Personally I think it is a good idea the Mac stays focused on building a great workstation.
Yes yes I do know you can run them as a server. Still in the business world there are workstations and then there are servers they all play their role. Why build all that in a platform meant to be a workstation? For one thing Mac users would be paying for things they may never use.
Really give Novell OES a try it sees Macs as just another Linux workstation. If you looking for a replacement for ISA then take a good look at SmoothWall's products. We dumped ISA two years and I am Sooooo! grateful! Matter of fact Novell's equivelent of Operation Manager (ZenWorks) will manage Windows, Macs and Linux machines. Operation Manager will only manage Windows machines.
Need help or more information got a question? Contact us. We'd be glad to give you more information on how its done.
I respect your right to say what you have, and I am sure that you like and are loyal to your friends, but I must point out the when they're at work and you are on the receiving end of their violence and unlawful activities then you would think different. Now I'm not talking about robbing banks I am talking about peacefully standing up for the rights of your people. I am talking about trying to hold them to the laws that they promised to up hold.
You see I DON'T live in DC. I am a Native American that has been involved with protecting the rights of our tribes and our people. The rights that every human being should have. The ones they are suppose to protect. In the early 70's I have been thrown to the ground face down in the mud and a.357 shoved in my ear. Why? Because my skin is darker and my hair is long and I am a reminder that your government took most of this land by force. That I remind this government that they signed their treaties and the grass is still growing and the river is still flowing. I have a friend who's trailer was burned to the ground with his Mother, Wife, and children inside, and they all died. Later he was asked in private by and FBI agent if he had learned to keep his mouth shut. Lets talk about the over 600 dead Native American that died strange deaths after the FBI came to the Rez. Hummm nice people once you get to know them.
Don't say that I don't know these people. I have worked for them and I am a Vietnam Vet. I know the government very well. This is how the war is fought. Yes as individuals they are likeable people, and they go to work and do as their boss tells them, who got their orders from another boss. Now when they come and burn down your house with you in it. It just them doing their job. They are not responsible. You go to their department and the department says they aren't responsible. Well then who is? It is a Monster with a thousands heads.
Spending time (as many have done here) dwelling on how a given institution (say, the FBI) has "earned" our deep suspicion because of now-gone policies and management implies a bad case of not getting it. No dude living in the real world is what has given me my mis-trust and living through real life situations. We ain't talkin' TV.
I'd say that we can pretty much get past saying that the Germans (or Japanese for that matter), as a people, are still earning our deep mistrust. Humm funny I don't feel that way towards Vietnam people. A few years back I met a Vietnamese man my age that was in the same area I was in at the same time. Did I feel threaten or not trust him? NO not at all. We met with total respect for one another. Do I feel threaten and not trust my government? YES. To be totally honest I am afraid to post this. Yet I would rather go down as a man, than to live like a coward so I am posting. After all isn't that what I went to Nam and tried to kill that nice man I met? The freedom to speak out an question my government.
Similarly, the people currently staffing the FBI aren't anymore inherently malicious working for the current administration than they were for the last one (remember their helpful delivery of private profile info into the last administration's offices? Hey I'm in the way back machine I'm talking about the early 70's not the present administration. This has been going on in every administration. The case you are referring to is they just got caught that time. Did getting caught change things? No
Eternal vigilance must indeed be part of the picture - but let's not forget that FBI agents, managers, directors... these people all have families, a personal longing for liberty, and a general sense of decency that gets them through their crappy days dealing with the world's true, hateful, death-dealing creeps. The problem is "Eternal vigilance" has been outlawed. You speak out you are branded a terrorist and sent to Cuba. Sure these people have families and a personal longing for liberty. Do
Obviously you haven't ever called SBC, ATT, or UUNET with a problem. you talk with no one and nothing gets done. Whois gives you another contact.
Question.. You are talking about your "private" life and "Private server" If they are private then why are the on the "Public" Internet? Your right I don't want my private life on the Internet so nothing of my personal life is on a server. I'm sure you did a lookup of my domain. Do you think any of that info has anything to do with me personally? It is all valid for the company and for the site. Still there is nothing there about me personally.
You are right spammers stay away from address like postmaster@ and hostmaster@ and especially abuse@ they know these address lead to an asshole like myself that will try to bring the walls of Jericho down around their heads. If you looked the address listed is hostmaster@ Actually this makes a good trap address. You ever called a spammers and they say "Oh you must have opted-in with that address at sometime." Nope! that address leads to a ticket system and is never used except in the whois info of domains hosted here. If you got it you harvested it. Got ya! Especially the postmaster account your spamming the guy (or lady) that is pulling their hair out over the spam. Not the right person to piss off.
I understand the reaction to the ton of spam. REALLY! It is the thing that cost this company the most money to deal with. It makes me sad to see just a great form of communication get screwed up to the point it is damn near unuseable. Still I would never list my personal nor my business email address in the whois. You are right it is a great way to get a boat load of spam. If our customer wants to admin his own site we still setup a hostmaster@ mail account and point it to the mailbox of their choice. There personal address isn't out there.
Now don't get me wrong there are hosting companies that forward mail from and basically bogus account to yours. I have no problem with that. I can send you an email through that address. I can contact you and still your phone number is listed if I need to call you. This to me is fine but hiding it all together no.
Well you know you should put things in quotes I did say. I never said "do it the way I want you to, or I will break your server" Don't put words in my mouth. First thing it is no threat just a promise of Self Defense. Read your words "Counter Attacking" This in itself means the other person started the attack. I do have a right to protect my investment. Don't want to get counter attacked then don't attack. Simple. Much like in the real world you try to break in here you will get shot. If you don't want to get shot then don't break in.
What I am talking about is the last ditch attempt to put a stop to things. If you had valid information up on thw whois then like I said you would get a polite phone call and we would work it out like business people. Again Simple.
Besides none of you against this I guess don't understand the obscurity is not security.
Granted I don't know the working of CD-Zilla, but why would an over grown spreadsheet program need low level access? Its not a hardware intensive program. What happened to the golden rule of computing "Never run under admin or root."?
It wasn't ment as a cheap shot, but if you are a sysadmin then you ought to know what it is like getting the hell beat out of your network by some zombied machines. Especially running a mail server you should understand about having a point of contact. How do you get contacted with mail problems?
Being as professional sysadmin means that you work for a company. Does you company not have a listing in the phone book. Do they not advertize with the address, email address, web address and phone number in it? So why not have it listed in the whois? Most likely your company site has that information right there on the site. so whats the deal. If you are running a business site with the address and company phone numbers hidden then you are up to no good anyways. That wasn't meant as a cheap shot just a general truth. If you are marketing your business you need to let people know where you at. If you business is web based you still need an address to show your are credible.
IP space does matter and is the most important. It will will work without a name. Still for the above reasons valid contact information matters. too.
The why not insert the ISP contact information or you hosing companies information or get a PO Box. Actually the reason you agree to that term is because they need it to enter into the record!
If your server has a trojan and it is beating the hell out of my network would you rather me politely call you and reslove the issue of crack your server and make sure the attack stops? Personally I'd rather make the phone call.
You talk about the registration of "my computer". We're not talking about your computer on a DSL. For one thing the DNS information is on your ISP and yes if there was problems from your computer I want the whois information to look them up. Now if you are talking about running your web site off of your computer then welcome to the real world.
Question. Who has control of your DNS for your site? Your telco provider or ISP? If they do then change the contact information to them. We do that here for our customers that don't wnat their home address out there. The thing is then their is a valid phone number and a vaild email address for contact to someone that has control of the site, or can at least contact you.
If you are running your own DNS then really welcome to the real world. If you are going to play in the big pond you must obey the rules. Maybe your are just doing one domain but still you are entering the world of being an ISP and yes you need to have vaild contact information out there. You need to have you host and MX records in order. There are standards for a reason. If you are that worried about your address then get a PO box.
Boy want an rant. What the hell do I care about where you sleep. If you are running a network and your box gets hacked and decides to send my mail server ten million mail messages. I want someone I can politely (notice I said politely) call and resolve the issue. Shit happens on the network and engineers need a way of contact. This is the propose of the whois. Or would you rather me turn it off because I couldn't reach you or someone to correct the problem? I don't think you would want that. I personally want to resolve the matter in a respectfull manner.
Don't rant about the above threat. If you are going to run a server on the Internet there comes responisabilty with that. Like keeping your machine patched and if something does go wrong with you server there is a way to contact you. It just the rules of the road. You know if you don't drink and drive you will never get arrested for drunk driving.
Actually what you said about email address you are requried to have hostmaster@example.com, postmaster@example.com, and abuse@example.com valid and working on your mail server for your domain. These addresses are for the use we are talking about. This wasn't the topic so why rant?
"Valid" DNS is a fiction made up by the Intellectual Property Protection Mafia, and adopted by the Anti-Privacy Politicians. Since the only IP that ICANN cares about is Intellectual Property, they've tried very hard to insist that domain registrars collect legal jurisdiction information and True Names and True Contact Info, because if there's a trademark disagreement about a domain name or somebody's sharing music at your domain, they want the purported IP owner to be able to send a subpoena to the domain name holder instead of bothering the registrar or ICANN about it. And the politicians want to be able to send out a SWAT team to your house if you publish UnAmerican Material on your web site.
Boy and I thought I was parinoid. You know screaming this loud about hiding for the world I have to wonder are you up to no good? Wouldn't happen to be in the bulk mail business? Ypu see this has nothing to do with the SWAT team coming to get you because if they want you hell they got more ways to find you than the whois info. If you really want to hide then get a subdomain at some place like geocites.com. The no whois info and you don't need to use your real information at all.
If you are worried about the guys in black suits coming to get you for publishing UnAmerican material. The problems doesn't lie with ICANN nor the Internet it lies in the fact we have the new Hitler in the White House with all his clowns. I remember a day when you could say or publish anything you wanted without fear. Still if you are that worried get a PO Box.
Well if you ened up sueing the mailbox corporation then I guess you didn't dig deep enough. Yes I run a whois on spammers but that isn't the only tool I use because you know the info is wrong. Even if it does turn out to be right you have to verify it.
Check the ICANN regualtions on domain information. I don't remember the RFC number right off the bat, but it there has been since the advent of domain names. You agreed to that too. Why doesn't your ISP or whoever is doing your DNS have their address in there? That is what the Tech Zone contact is for. They could put their address in for yours. That is what we do here. We have customers that don't want there address listed. So we use ours. This is still a valid contact address and nobody know where you live. Still someone that as some authority over the site can be contacted.
Well you never read the Terms of Service for domain names. This has always been this way. You have to have a valid record to have a domain. There is a good reason for this and personally I think that any site that doesn't have some type of valid contact information should be shut down. Has you said this is badly misused by spammers and every other person trashing the Internet.
At our company if you want your information hidden. We use or NOC address and contact information for that person. This way your personal information is not up but in case something is going on with your site someone that has control over the site can be contacted.
Maybe you want to play with you own mail server and web server but the Internet is not a play ground. Just like needing a drivers licenses to drive there is a need in knowing who you are if you are running a site.
Yes I am the first to admit it is abused all the time, but without valid whois information how can I track down the person that is abusing the system? The people that could put an end to this is ICANN. I have tracked down many a spammer and ICANN allows them to stay on. If ICANN would do something to stop this the abuse that would cut down and then your so called private information wouldn't be abused. Then this information would be used for only legitmate reasons.
For instance lets say your box has been 0wned. The hacker then launches an attack from your box to my network. With valid information I am able to contact you and something can be done to fix the problem. If your phone number is 555-555-1211 and your email address is myname@example.com then you are subject to a counter attack. Now would you want that? Wouldn't you rather me contact you in a good way and we fix the problem and also have some help in finding who hacked you? There are a lot more good reasons for having valid Whois info than bad.
You say it is not your responsibility to give out this information. Yes it is again read the Terms of Service you signed. No matter what you think what you signed and agreed to says you must. Tne Internet is not a right nor a freedom it is a network bound by rules. Just like in Baseball you got to play by the rules.
Check out the latest version of QuickBooks Pro. It will not run under a normal user account, and there is no reason for QuickBooks to need the lower level access you are talking about. You are right about the games though. But hey we all want the workstation that is doing the financials wide open to get hacked.
No your wrong. Check out history. during the days of the wild lawless West there were LESS murders and robbries per capitia than there are today. Why? Where the average robber went to rob he was worried about getting shot. In those days a person broke into your home you shot him and the police just came and carried him off a buried him. End of story. This kept the crimmal in fear. Not the Citizen. Here in Georgia a town (Kennasaw) passed a law that ever home owner was to posess a firearm in their home. Buglaries dropped 60%! Why? The crack heads got scared to rob homes in that town.
I never saw you post about being robbed, but like another post to yours I must say what a wimp! Isn't your life and the life of your family worth fighting for? I was robbed at knife point once too and my licenses to carry firearm that I had on SAVED my life. The mement I pulled the gun they dropped their knives and ran for their life. What is wrong with this country? Attiudes like yours. Your life either means nothing to you and you expect the world to guard you and you property. The only person you can count on to protect you at all time is yourself. I am a peaceful man by nature but do not attempt to rob me. The moment you put me in fear of my life I WILL legally shoot you and fell no remorse. I would rather die like a man fighting for my life than crying "Please not hurt me" at the feet of some crack head.
I value my life and the lives of my family anf friends.
Oh yes you may ask how did I get so cruel? I learned to kill protecting the freedoms that like in this article that we are having taken from us.
Boy you like getting down on the "free as in beer" crack!
Must be because that is your only viable point.
Your STILL missing my point! I don't want the additional services!!!!!! I just want the laptop at a reasonable price! WITHOUT! the service plan!
Your still cannot buy this laptop without the service plan.
Speaking of the background work to keep up the OS. You think that a manufacture doesn't have to do all that for Windows based laptops? Think again. They must test, and maintain the images that they use too. They must give tech support for their product too. STILL my point is work is work either on Windows or Linux and the amount of work is about the same loading either OS in a production enviroment. Ever work in a production plant? I have.
It is a rip off to just burn an image (which in a production case you would do 8 to 16 or more at a time) stick it in a laptop and bang $500.00. What is that maybe 30 mins. work? OK you get support. Lets say all I want is the laptop. Will they drop the $500.00? I don't think so. Actually I have loaded Linux on a customers laptop for less. It took 3 hours and we get $100.00 and hour so $300.00 and this was for a one time (if you what to call it) "custom" load.
Our vendor for workstation and servers charges less for Linux. Why? It takes about the same time to load either one. With Linux he has no cost on the OS so he passes that savings on to us instead of charging $500.00 more.
As you mentioned RedHat. Sure if I want I can pay for support I can and buy RHN. If not I can use Fedora and figure it out on my own. I have a choice. This is my point. I have no choice buying this laptop. OK great support for a normal user IS a good thing and if someone wants to pay for that then fine. Some people need this support. We sell support for Linux. I don't need it and don't want to pay $500.00 for something I won't ever use more than likely. I am not the normal user I am an engineer and Hey I get paid for impressive support. So what should I pay them?
My point is I just want to buy a laptop WITHOUT paying for a copy of MS Windows (That I have no use for) which should make the price less. Hell I would be happy to pay the same or maybe a little more for Linux on the same laptop, but $500.00. I don't think so.
No I do understand the GPL and GNU. The "free as in beer" comment was to cut down on the legalize of all the legalize. Lets not be pickey this is not the subject. The subject is that instead of passing a savings onto your customer you are charging more for your service.
You are right If I don't like it I will just buy from someone else. As far as doing it myself yes I do it all the time. This is my job too and when loading free software I do sell that part to my customer for what it cost me $0.00. Yes I do charge for the labor. I also charge for the labor on MS products, but also charge what the software costs plus a markup. It is up to you if you want the savings.
Still it isn't like you built the OS from the ground up. Are you paying RedHat for the use of the Fedora code??? sure you have to customize the OS for the hardware, but once that is done it is a matter of just loading images of the customized OS. Hundreds of hours labor spread out over hundreds of laptops sold doesn't equal $500.00 a pop. Its not like you are customizing Windows and have to "pay up front for the OS. How long does it take to burn an image to a drive? 45 mins.? So you are being paid $500.00 for 45 mins. work after setting up the OS.
Yes we charge about $500.00 to set up a server, but This is a case of setting up a SINGLE server. When we image an OS to go on several machines we DO NOT charge the single server price per machine. The more machines the cheaper it gets.
Personally I think this is a rip off and I do hope you go out of business. I do hope that whoever owns the base code comes after you for selling their "Free as in beer" code. Face it you are making a ton of money off of someone elses work.
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As the IT manager evaluating the cost of switching, I have to ask, "Well, how can you justify the tens of thousands I'll need to spend in training on this new system?"
Well how much are you spending on cleaning up and protecting from virsuses, maleware, spyware, and the times the users kill the system because thay can write at will to the system files? Our TCO has went DOWN! 70% after switching.
At the end of the day, I can't recommend one over the other, but that's why I have to recommend Windows. It's already on your computer, you might as well just use it.
Nope sorry not on this machine nor most in this place. They came with Linux.
So true!
You are standing on the spot which you are standing on.
Yes they where a scrappy bunch and argued but they all aggreed on one thing. Personal Freedom over governmental power.
Yes the ISP could monitor the bandwidth on port 25 or just block port 25 and people could still download ISO or large updates. This still wouldn't stop it. Why? What about servers in Russia or China. Do you think american laws have any effect on them? Have you ever tried to contact an admin in China? What a joke.
Just who is going to charge this site for the spam? Even if you find the site how are you going to find the owner? All whois info on a site like this is a lie. ICANN will not drop a site for bad whois info.
Talking aobut the ISP they are using, most use someone like UUNET or a 100 others that do not give two sh_ts what they are doing as long as they are paying the bills. There are ISPs out there that this is where thay make their money. What are you going to do about them?
Why this is modded intresting I do not understand. It is obivous that you don't have to chase these kind of people for a living. None of your ideas will work.
I wish they could....
Please do understand I have been a MS engineer since 1991 so I know my way around a Windows Domain and we still support them for some of our customers. Our company has switch and we won't go back. Our management cost have dropped 40%. We now only have Windows for test machines and one workstation to run QuickBooks which is isolated from the outside world. Manage from the same interface? Sure I manage around a 100 servers from this Linux workstation of all kinds including Windows servers and never have to leave my seat except if I have to actually go and hit the on button. Yes this is all done through secure connections too.
Our company works with a lot of Graphics companies and of course Mac is their workstation of choice. They love the Linux servers a whole lot better that then Windows servers they replaced.
Personally I think it is a good idea the Mac stays focused on building a great workstation.
Yes yes I do know you can run them as a server. Still in the business world there are workstations and then there are servers they all play their role. Why build all that in a platform meant to be a workstation? For one thing Mac users would be paying for things they may never use.
Really give Novell OES a try it sees Macs as just another Linux workstation. If you looking for a replacement for ISA then take a good look at SmoothWall's products. We dumped ISA two years and I am Sooooo! grateful! Matter of fact Novell's equivelent of Operation Manager (ZenWorks) will manage Windows, Macs and Linux machines. Operation Manager will only manage Windows machines.
Need help or more information got a question? Contact us. We'd be glad to give you more information on how its done.
I respect your right to say what you have, and I am sure that you like and are loyal to your friends, but I must point out the when they're at work and you are on the receiving end of their violence and unlawful activities then you would think different. Now I'm not talking about robbing banks I am talking about peacefully standing up for the rights of your people. I am talking about trying to hold them to the laws that they promised to up hold.
You see I DON'T live in DC. I am a Native American that has been involved with protecting the rights of our tribes and our people. The rights that every human being should have. The ones they are suppose to protect. In the early 70's I have been thrown to the ground face down in the mud and a .357 shoved in my ear. Why? Because my skin is darker and my hair is long and I am a reminder that your government took most of this land by force. That I remind this government that they signed their treaties and the grass is still growing and the river is still flowing. I have a friend who's trailer was burned to the ground with his Mother, Wife, and children inside, and they all died. Later he was asked in private by and FBI agent if he had learned to keep his mouth shut. Lets talk about the over 600 dead Native American that died strange deaths after the FBI came to the Rez. Hummm nice people once you get to know them.
Don't say that I don't know these people. I have worked for them and I am a Vietnam Vet. I know the government very well. This is how the war is fought. Yes as individuals they are likeable people, and they go to work and do as their boss tells them, who got their orders from another boss. Now when they come and burn down your house with you in it. It just them doing their job. They are not responsible. You go to their department and the department says they aren't responsible. Well then who is? It is a Monster with a thousands heads.
Spending time (as many have done here) dwelling on how a given institution (say, the FBI) has "earned" our deep suspicion because of now-gone policies and management implies a bad case of not getting it. No dude living in the real world is what has given me my mis-trust and living through real life situations. We ain't talkin' TV.
I'd say that we can pretty much get past saying that the Germans (or Japanese for that matter), as a people, are still earning our deep mistrust. Humm funny I don't feel that way towards Vietnam people. A few years back I met a Vietnamese man my age that was in the same area I was in at the same time. Did I feel threaten or not trust him? NO not at all. We met with total respect for one another. Do I feel threaten and not trust my government? YES. To be totally honest I am afraid to post this. Yet I would rather go down as a man, than to live like a coward so I am posting. After all isn't that what I went to Nam and tried to kill that nice man I met? The freedom to speak out an question my government.
Similarly, the people currently staffing the FBI aren't anymore inherently malicious working for the current administration than they were for the last one (remember their helpful delivery of private profile info into the last administration's offices? Hey I'm in the way back machine I'm talking about the early 70's not the present administration. This has been going on in every administration. The case you are referring to is they just got caught that time. Did getting caught change things? No
Eternal vigilance must indeed be part of the picture - but let's not forget that FBI agents, managers, directors... these people all have families, a personal longing for liberty, and a general sense of decency that gets them through their crappy days dealing with the world's true, hateful, death-dealing creeps. The problem is "Eternal vigilance" has been outlawed. You speak out you are branded a terrorist and sent to Cuba. Sure these people have families and a personal longing for liberty. Do
Sure you can trust the government and of course the FBI! Ask any Native American!
FBI = Federal Bureau of Intimidation
If it is brown, warm and steamy, and laying in the pasture. It must be Bull Shit.
Yea we all know that is the truth. You are right this is the real reason.
Question.. You are talking about your "private" life and "Private server" If they are private then why are the on the "Public" Internet? Your right I don't want my private life on the Internet so nothing of my personal life is on a server. I'm sure you did a lookup of my domain. Do you think any of that info has anything to do with me personally? It is all valid for the company and for the site. Still there is nothing there about me personally.
You are right spammers stay away from address like postmaster@ and hostmaster@ and especially abuse@ they know these address lead to an asshole like myself that will try to bring the walls of Jericho down around their heads. If you looked the address listed is hostmaster@ Actually this makes a good trap address. You ever called a spammers and they say "Oh you must have opted-in with that address at sometime." Nope! that address leads to a ticket system and is never used except in the whois info of domains hosted here. If you got it you harvested it. Got ya! Especially the postmaster account your spamming the guy (or lady) that is pulling their hair out over the spam. Not the right person to piss off.
I understand the reaction to the ton of spam. REALLY! It is the thing that cost this company the most money to deal with. It makes me sad to see just a great form of communication get screwed up to the point it is damn near unuseable. Still I would never list my personal nor my business email address in the whois. You are right it is a great way to get a boat load of spam. If our customer wants to admin his own site we still setup a hostmaster@ mail account and point it to the mailbox of their choice. There personal address isn't out there.
Now don't get me wrong there are hosting companies that forward mail from and basically bogus account to yours. I have no problem with that. I can send you an email through that address. I can contact you and still your phone number is listed if I need to call you. This to me is fine but hiding it all together no.
What I am talking about is the last ditch attempt to put a stop to things. If you had valid information up on thw whois then like I said you would get a polite phone call and we would work it out like business people. Again Simple.
Besides none of you against this I guess don't understand the obscurity is not security.
Granted I don't know the working of CD-Zilla, but why would an over grown spreadsheet program need low level access? Its not a hardware intensive program. What happened to the golden rule of computing "Never run under admin or root."?
Being as professional sysadmin means that you work for a company. Does you company not have a listing in the phone book. Do they not advertize with the address, email address, web address and phone number in it? So why not have it listed in the whois? Most likely your company site has that information right there on the site. so whats the deal. If you are running a business site with the address and company phone numbers hidden then you are up to no good anyways. That wasn't meant as a cheap shot just a general truth. If you are marketing your business you need to let people know where you at. If you business is web based you still need an address to show your are credible.
IP space does matter and is the most important. It will will work without a name. Still for the above reasons valid contact information matters. too.
If your server has a trojan and it is beating the hell out of my network would you rather me politely call you and reslove the issue of crack your server and make sure the attack stops? Personally I'd rather make the phone call.
Question. Who has control of your DNS for your site? Your telco provider or ISP? If they do then change the contact information to them. We do that here for our customers that don't wnat their home address out there. The thing is then their is a valid phone number and a vaild email address for contact to someone that has control of the site, or can at least contact you.
If you are running your own DNS then really welcome to the real world. If you are going to play in the big pond you must obey the rules. Maybe your are just doing one domain but still you are entering the world of being an ISP and yes you need to have vaild contact information out there. You need to have you host and MX records in order. There are standards for a reason. If you are that worried about your address then get a PO box.
Boy want an rant. What the hell do I care about where you sleep. If you are running a network and your box gets hacked and decides to send my mail server ten million mail messages. I want someone I can politely (notice I said politely) call and resolve the issue. Shit happens on the network and engineers need a way of contact. This is the propose of the whois. Or would you rather me turn it off because I couldn't reach you or someone to correct the problem? I don't think you would want that. I personally want to resolve the matter in a respectfull manner .
Don't rant about the above threat. If you are going to run a server on the Internet there comes responisabilty with that. Like keeping your machine patched and if something does go wrong with you server there is a way to contact you. It just the rules of the road. You know if you don't drink and drive you will never get arrested for drunk driving.
Actually what you said about email address you are requried to have hostmaster@example.com, postmaster@example.com, and abuse@example.com valid and working on your mail server for your domain. These addresses are for the use we are talking about. This wasn't the topic so why rant?
"Valid" DNS is a fiction made up by the Intellectual Property Protection Mafia, and adopted by the Anti-Privacy Politicians. Since the only IP that ICANN cares about is Intellectual Property, they've tried very hard to insist that domain registrars collect legal jurisdiction information and True Names and True Contact Info, because if there's a trademark disagreement about a domain name or somebody's sharing music at your domain, they want the purported IP owner to be able to send a subpoena to the domain name holder instead of bothering the registrar or ICANN about it. And the politicians want to be able to send out a SWAT team to your house if you publish UnAmerican Material on your web site.
Boy and I thought I was parinoid. You know screaming this loud about hiding for the world I have to wonder are you up to no good? Wouldn't happen to be in the bulk mail business? Ypu see this has nothing to do with the SWAT team coming to get you because if they want you hell they got more ways to find you than the whois info. If you really want to hide then get a subdomain at some place like geocites.com. The no whois info and you don't need to use your real information at all.
If you are worried about the guys in black suits coming to get you for publishing UnAmerican material. The problems doesn't lie with ICANN nor the Internet it lies in the fact we have the new Hitler in the White House with all his clowns. I remember a day when you could say or publish anything you wanted without fear. Still if you are that worried get a PO Box.
Well if you ened up sueing the mailbox corporation then I guess you didn't dig deep enough. Yes I run a whois on spammers but that isn't the only tool I use because you know the info is wrong. Even if it does turn out to be right you have to verify it.
Simple solution
Well you never read the Terms of Service for domain names. This has always been this way. You have to have a valid record to have a domain. There is a good reason for this and personally I think that any site that doesn't have some type of valid contact information should be shut down. Has you said this is badly misused by spammers and every other person trashing the Internet.
At our company if you want your information hidden. We use or NOC address and contact information for that person. This way your personal information is not up but in case something is going on with your site someone that has control over the site can be contacted.
Maybe you want to play with you own mail server and web server but the Internet is not a play ground. Just like needing a drivers licenses to drive there is a need in knowing who you are if you are running a site.
Yes I am the first to admit it is abused all the time, but without valid whois information how can I track down the person that is abusing the system? The people that could put an end to this is ICANN. I have tracked down many a spammer and ICANN allows them to stay on. If ICANN would do something to stop this the abuse that would cut down and then your so called private information wouldn't be abused. Then this information would be used for only legitmate reasons.
For instance lets say your box has been 0wned. The hacker then launches an attack from your box to my network. With valid information I am able to contact you and something can be done to fix the problem. If your phone number is 555-555-1211 and your email address is myname@example.com then you are subject to a counter attack. Now would you want that? Wouldn't you rather me contact you in a good way and we fix the problem and also have some help in finding who hacked you? There are a lot more good reasons for having valid Whois info than bad.
You say it is not your responsibility to give out this information. Yes it is again read the Terms of Service you signed. No matter what you think what you signed and agreed to says you must. Tne Internet is not a right nor a freedom it is a network bound by rules. Just like in Baseball you got to play by the rules.
Check out the latest version of QuickBooks Pro. It will not run under a normal user account, and there is no reason for QuickBooks to need the lower level access you are talking about. You are right about the games though. But hey we all want the workstation that is doing the financials wide open to get hacked.
I never saw you post about being robbed, but like another post to yours I must say what a wimp! Isn't your life and the life of your family worth fighting for? I was robbed at knife point once too and my licenses to carry firearm that I had on SAVED my life. The mement I pulled the gun they dropped their knives and ran for their life. What is wrong with this country? Attiudes like yours. Your life either means nothing to you and you expect the world to guard you and you property. The only person you can count on to protect you at all time is yourself. I am a peaceful man by nature but do not attempt to rob me. The moment you put me in fear of my life I WILL legally shoot you and fell no remorse. I would rather die like a man fighting for my life than crying "Please not hurt me" at the feet of some crack head.
I value my life and the lives of my family anf friends.
Oh yes you may ask how did I get so cruel? I learned to kill protecting the freedoms that like in this article that we are having taken from us.
Yes since you can't seem to stay on the track of this conversation it is best that it ends here.
Boy you like getting down on the "free as in beer" crack!
Must be because that is your only viable point.
Your STILL missing my point! I don't want the additional services!!!!!! I just want the laptop at a reasonable price! WITHOUT! the service plan!
Your still cannot buy this laptop without the service plan.
Speaking of the background work to keep up the OS. You think that a manufacture doesn't have to do all that for Windows based laptops? Think again. They must test, and maintain the images that they use too. They must give tech support for their product too. STILL my point is work is work either on Windows or Linux and the amount of work is about the same loading either OS in a production enviroment. Ever work in a production plant? I have.
No actually you don't get my point.
It is a rip off to just burn an image (which in a production case you would do 8 to 16 or more at a time) stick it in a laptop and bang $500.00. What is that maybe 30 mins. work? OK you get support. Lets say all I want is the laptop. Will they drop the $500.00? I don't think so. Actually I have loaded Linux on a customers laptop for less. It took 3 hours and we get $100.00 and hour so $300.00 and this was for a one time (if you what to call it) "custom" load.
Our vendor for workstation and servers charges less for Linux. Why? It takes about the same time to load either one. With Linux he has no cost on the OS so he passes that savings on to us instead of charging $500.00 more.
As you mentioned RedHat. Sure if I want I can pay for support I can and buy RHN. If not I can use Fedora and figure it out on my own. I have a choice. This is my point. I have no choice buying this laptop. OK great support for a normal user IS a good thing and if someone wants to pay for that then fine. Some people need this support. We sell support for Linux. I don't need it and don't want to pay $500.00 for something I won't ever use more than likely. I am not the normal user I am an engineer and Hey I get paid for impressive support. So what should I pay them?
My point is I just want to buy a laptop WITHOUT paying for a copy of MS Windows (That I have no use for) which should make the price less. Hell I would be happy to pay the same or maybe a little more for Linux on the same laptop, but $500.00. I don't think so.
No I do understand the GPL and GNU. The "free as in beer" comment was to cut down on the legalize of all the legalize. Lets not be pickey this is not the subject. The subject is that instead of passing a savings onto your customer you are charging more for your service.
You are right If I don't like it I will just buy from someone else. As far as doing it myself yes I do it all the time. This is my job too and when loading free software I do sell that part to my customer for what it cost me $0.00. Yes I do charge for the labor. I also charge for the labor on MS products, but also charge what the software costs plus a markup. It is up to you if you want the savings.
Yes we charge about $500.00 to set up a server, but This is a case of setting up a SINGLE server. When we image an OS to go on several machines we DO NOT charge the single server price per machine. The more machines the cheaper it gets.
Personally I think this is a rip off and I do hope you go out of business. I do hope that whoever owns the base code comes after you for selling their "Free as in beer" code. Face it you are making a ton of money off of someone elses work.
Damn dude you worse than Bill and the boys!