From your response, it seems like you view websites as some static, one-way, communications tool. But many of us do things that require a lot more from a browser than displaying boxes correctly.
A lot of websites are set up to DO things. For instance, look at a site like smugmug.com
Smugmug is VERY concerned about being multi-platform. In fact, they have written parts of their site to work BEST on OS X. One of the big things on the site is uploading pictures.
Works great on a Mac Works great on IE on Windows
Whoops...can't use Active X in Firefox. So basically, you are screwed.
Same thing on a lot of other photo-upload sites I've been to.
So if you really enjoy uploading files one by one, by all means- fight the good fight and refuse to use 'non standards compliant browsers.'
But, if you are actually concerned about getting work done...and offering your visitors the means to get their work done efficiently...well, then you just gotta use what works.
So no, I won't worry about Firefox ONLY users...because they are too busy uploading their 250th file...while everyone else is doing something else.
I can attest that I didn't understand half of this post.
But in plain English, I can say that there is a still a ton of junk that Internet Explorer does, that is really hard to do in a multi-browser environment.
And if I can support 85% of the users out there with my effort, it is difficult for me to double my effort to only get 8% more of the users.
But then again, just putting the system on the web excludes a lot of people.
They have a job to do, and they need to make the stuff work. It is not their job to make sure that every single American can use the site. They need to make sure that a reasonable number can.
Should they have used photocopiers, when Xerox was the only company that could make them?
Mainframe computers?
There are all types of proprietary systems that we, and the government uses every day.
Here I am, sitting in front of my government-issued Windows computer right now. Getting ready to go into a video-conference that uses Polycom equipment, which will probably include a Powerpoint presentation.
It is everywhere...but some people have just grabbed onto browser choice as being some sort of holy war.
I wonder if Wikinerd (the article's submitter) would ever actually be using the Patent Office's submission feature.
My guess is that they want to see how thier USERS would react to this change. Having 4,000 Slashdotters chime in with their opinion doesn't actually help them find out what their customers need. But, I think a lot of people who would write letters in support of other browsers would never use the system, and are actually just a bunch of un-necessary noise. But those same people are very happy to be that un-necessary noise.
Whenever I am creating a User Interface, we end up having small focus groups take a look at it, to make sure it is easy to use. (The focus groups are always from our organization, but hey, at least we are taking the step.)
The number one thing I hear, and the thing that pisses me off the most, is: "Well, *I* didn't have a ny problem with it, but I can see where someone *else* may have difficulty." I just want to scream at them, "*DID* you have problems?!?! I am asking about *YOUR* experience, not what you THINK someone else might have!!"
Either they don't want to admit that they really are a dumbshit, and don't understand how it works, (Which is actually the input we are looking for) or they really a whiz-kid and were able to figure it out, but nobody else will. But, since we usually take the dumbest people we can find, the second option is rarely the issue.
But, back on topic- are the REAL customers complaining about the need to use Internet Explorer? Or, is it just a bunch of outsiders who want to push their own agenda....
I used Wal*Mart for this same service, and I was surprised when they quit.
Wal*Mart started out being the cheapest, then forced everyone else to follow them into the low-priced space. Then Wal*Mart dropped the service, presumably because they weren't making any money. Will the other services keep the same prices?
Maybe Wal*Mart couldn't make money because the USPS can't rely on foreign labor. (Yes, I know, most carriers aren't too far from being foreign- but they still get paid American wages.)
But to the grand-grand parent who said that Amazon has an advantage because they have distribution centers already...
Don't you think Netflix has those too? It's not like both of them are coming out of the gate at the same time.
Frankly, I would base my decision on whoever uses the smallest envelopes. Gamefly uses envelopes that are *just barely* too big to fit in the outgoing slot in our mailbox (one of those 'neighborhood' things that sits on a pole and has like 20 small boxes). So I had to drive around to find a bigger box.
Seems like a small thing, but that is why I dropped Gamefly...the convenience of at home delivery really went down when I had to travel somewhere else just to return them.
One of the main reasons I am a bad programmer, is that I have been one of the people with a 'tool' (standard desktop apps) who has been looking for a place to use it...instead of having a project, and then looking for the tool. I have searched high and low throughout the place where I work for projects to fit what I wanted to do.
I got tired of writing web apps a few years ago, and I decided that I was going to start writing some desktop apps, and distribute them in the traditional way. I was thrilled with the idea of having 'versions' of my programs. Yes, that was actually exciting, rather than just doing a million incremental upgrades.
But alas, it was not to be. In the last 5 years we have not had need for a single program that would not run on all platforms. Or anything that did not retrieve real-time data, or anything that we wanted to use an new and different (non-web) interface.
Oh well, I finally gave up a few weeks ago. For me, in my position, non web-based programming is very, very dead.
A couple of years ago, I bought my wife a wireless Microsoft Intellimouse for her Mac (OS 9, since upgraded to X).
Prior to her getting that on the computer, I (windows user) would go crazy with the lack of 'right-click' whenever I used her computer. She had no idea what I was talking about whenever I would start cursing and cussing, complaining, "god-damn stupid one-button mouse! I don't want to hold down the ctrl key!" (She was still using the hockey puck at the time)
Now it is great to hear her do the same thing whenever she gets on someone elses Mac. She starts complaining about how stupid it is, and where the heck is the right-button, who thought of this stupid system, and why don't they add another button...etc. etc..
And all the while, the other person (who owns the computer with a single button mouse) sits there wondering what the heck my wife is talking about.
Long story short...why the hell did it take them so long?
I don't think they are shutting down, 'Voices of dissent.'
What they are doing is shutting down a conduit for the organization of groups whose purpose it is to kill civilians, disrupt society, and bring down the current government.
If all they were doing was 'voicing dissent' then most Western governments would allow that. It's when they go a step further, and start killing people, that it becomes a problem.
The important points I got from your message were:
A- You went to a school where kids are more likely to hang out in the library than a coffee shop.
B- You don't understand that a few simple line-breaks would make it a lot easier to read your message.
If you *really* think that Americans don't like to give something for nothing, then you have very little experience either in America, or other countries.
Perfect example: You have to pay for ketchup at McDonald's in Europe. And, what about the 'all you can drink' soda fountains?
I was in some stupid 'team building' meeting at work the other day. It was one of those things where they hired a motivational speaker to come in and tell us all how to be good people.
At one point, the speaker was talking about the 'Serenity Poem' and asked if anyone knew it.
So, I raised my hand, and I was sitting there thinking, "Oh yeah, I know that one!"
The instructor called on someone else, and she recited the "God give me the serenity to accept things I cannot change...blah blah blah..."
Whoops, I'm glad she didn't call on me...because I really thought she was looking for the, "Serenity Now, Serenity Now, Serenity Now" mantra from George's dad on Seinfeld.
That probably would have looked stupid...
Re:I argued about increased business and royalty
on
The Case for Free WiFi?
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Mr. Steele,
Good job...yes..those are the two (or 3 in the case of Cafe Roma. I don't know which location is worse, but I think the one by campus with the couches that sit out in the rain would be the winner).
My original point was that the businessman was doing what he thought he should be doing, based on his own business plan.
'Free Wi-Fi for Everyone' is not a necessary, or even desirable, part of all coffee shop business plans.
I used to own a print shop. Everyone told me I needed to have copiers, because it was so convenient, etc. etc.
They didn't realize that copiers cost a ton of money, and did not attract the clientele I was looking for. Grandma coming around and making her 10 copies each month was going to do nothing for my sales- yet grandma wanted the same level of service as customers ordering $10,000 of printing.
I made money, and grandma went to go drive my competitors nuts. I was very happy.
Some coffee shops thrive on the people who are going to sit there for hours, while others want to provide a nice atmosphere, but get you out the door a lot quicker.
Find out which ones are making real money, and emulate that.
If you are not opening your coffee shop in order to make money...then just invite your friends over to sit on the porch and drink coffee. You'll have a lot fewer hassles, and lose a lot less money.
Re:I argued about increased business and royalty
on
The Case for Free WiFi?
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Okay- Royalty mis-typing aside...
The entire article just screams, "I have never owned a business!"
See, the businessman sees this as a potential revenue stream. If he wants to run a successful coffee shop, he is thinking about ways to make money.
Going to businesses that make money is great- because they will be around for a while, and are generally nicer to be in.
The coffee shop owner may be thinking: "I only have seating for 12 people. If 5 people sit here for an hour, sucking up my bandwidth...where will the other customers sit?"
Ever go to a coffee shop in a university town? It sucks. Students claim every table, and spread out their laptops, papers, books, backpacks etc. Then they sit there for hours nursing one drink.
Sure, it is great for the students- but what about the business? A lot of other customers are scared away. There are two coffee shops in the town I work (university town) that I have not stepped foot in for about 3 years, exactly for this reason. Even the local Borders Books suffers from this problem.
Making $3.50 per table every 2 hours will not keep them in business. It's all about getting drinks out the door.
But supporting Windows 2000 (which if it is Enterprises, should be the only option other than XP Pro) does not make financial sense.
And only supporting SP2 is also a good plan. They WANT people to upgrade to SP2 for security reasons. The fewer people on older operating systems, the fewer black-eyes they'll get from security problems.
Security is a marketing issue, not an operational issue.
But really, if anyone is on a pre-NT code base system, (enterprises...Aunt Tilly doesn't know better) they deserve whatever bad news comes to them.
Re:Something borrowed, nothing new
on
IE7 Bugs and Reviews
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
But if it is a solid browser, that addresses the shortcomings of IE 6, then it will do what it needs to do...
All it NEEDS to do is catch-up. Microsoft is in the position of dominance, and all they need to do is produce something 'good enough.' It is the upstarts that need to aspire to 'great.'
Because, being good enough, and coming installed on 90% of the computers sold is a very powerful combination.
Not to mention the fact that it still has the IE specific features that people use. It is the only browser that runs a good percentage of the WYSIWYG editors out there. And people will keep using it because of things like that.
Sadly, now the things valued most highly in American institutions (public and private) are things like 'diversity training,' 'empowering employees,' and 'inclusive respect.'
Actually doing a good job has ceased being the primary focus of our workplaces- we now sit around and talk about how wonderful we all are, even the stupid people have something to contribute. We really need to seek out their ideas, because they might give us a new perspective!
Sure, yes, all well and good. But when our kids end up working in some factory making cheap consumer goods for the Chinese- maybe 'sensitivity training' won't seem so important.
(Sorry, I just got behind on my work by a week while sitting through this week-long training course...)
Okay, Live was not working for you- but I don't understand one of your comments.
You don't like matchmaking, because you don't get to play with your friends. Okay- understand that.
But, you don't like to play unranked team games, because it usually degenerates into crap (which I agree with whole-heartedly). Got it.
But the last part didn't make sense to me. You don't want to create your own game, and limit it to your friends list...
But, with Counter Strike, you feel it is better because you can set up your own server and limit people who play.
I agree with everything you said about Halo 2 - except the part about creating your own games. In Halo 2 can do basically the same things you can do with a CS server (in regards to your complaints). As you mentioned, your friends list will let you limit who plays. If someone ends up actually being an idiot you have the choice of just muting them, or you can drop them.
Also, the demographic for Halo 2 is skewed heavily toward the 20's and 30's age group. Yes, of course there are people younger, but this is the game which attracts the most older players. I admit- when I am running a game, I will boot people who are under the age of 18- just on principle, but it doesn't end up happening very often.
Maybe the Halo 2 matchmaking system just isn't what you were hoping for. I know that the day after I first played it, I went back to work and told my other game-playing friends tht it was the dumbest, most idiotic, short-sighted, crappiest scheme they could have every come up with.
A week later I had to tell them that I was wrong- very wrong. I ended up thinking it was the most ingenious way to handle servers I had ever seen.
Fortunes can be made by waiting until the product comes out. After it sells in the millions (and millions), THEN you slap them with a lawsuit. This way you can take a cut of their profits from the products already sold, and tell them that your own business is 'irreparably damaged' because of the confusion.
Why sue BEFORE any money has been made?!? That's just a warning.
Well, I'm in clans on Xbox Live. Same thing you are talking about. Every Wednesday we get together for some games. In fact, we can go to Bungie.net to see our scores, how we compare to each other, etc. etc. Xbox Live isn't just 'force-fed.'
Yes, voice chat is voice chat. And it is very nice to have a 'conference call' with your buddies while waiting for the host to set up the new game settings.
When I get into a game with someone who is an idiot, I can mute them- and still just listen to everyone else. Very convenient. I can't even imagine playing team games without voice chat anymore. Yes, you can send a few pre-defined messages on a lot of PC games, but you can come up with much more comprehensive communication when you can really talk.
Really- try it some more, Xbox Live is really good. I am saying this after having at least 5 years of serious on-line play on PC's. I like Xbox Live a while lot more.
Slashdot Mirror
Unless your eBay is different than mine...
12 'browse' buttons is not even CLOSE to dragging and dropping and entire folder of files.
Not even close.
And your thin client just got a whole lot fatter...
The number of people who won't run Java is greater than the number of people who won't run Internet Explorer...
From your response, it seems like you view websites as some static, one-way, communications tool. But many of us do things that require a lot more from a browser than displaying boxes correctly.
A lot of websites are set up to DO things. For instance, look at a site like smugmug.com
Smugmug is VERY concerned about being multi-platform. In fact, they have written parts of their site to work BEST on OS X. One of the big things on the site is uploading pictures.
Works great on a Mac
Works great on IE on Windows
Whoops...can't use Active X in Firefox. So basically, you are screwed.
Same thing on a lot of other photo-upload sites I've been to.
So if you really enjoy uploading files one by one, by all means- fight the good fight and refuse to use 'non standards compliant browsers.'
But, if you are actually concerned about getting work done...and offering your visitors the means to get their work done efficiently...well, then you just gotta use what works.
So no, I won't worry about Firefox ONLY users...because they are too busy uploading their 250th file...while everyone else is doing something else.
As another experienced web developer:
I can attest that I didn't understand half of this post.
But in plain English, I can say that there is a still a ton of junk that Internet Explorer does, that is really hard to do in a multi-browser environment.
And if I can support 85% of the users out there with my effort, it is difficult for me to double my effort to only get 8% more of the users.
But then again, just putting the system on the web excludes a lot of people.
They have a job to do, and they need to make the stuff work. It is not their job to make sure that every single American can use the site. They need to make sure that a reasonable number can.
Should the Government ever use DVDs?
Should they have used photocopiers, when Xerox was the only company that could make them?
Mainframe computers?
There are all types of proprietary systems that we, and the government uses every day.
Here I am, sitting in front of my government-issued Windows computer right now. Getting ready to go into a video-conference that uses Polycom equipment, which will probably include a Powerpoint presentation.
It is everywhere...but some people have just grabbed onto browser choice as being some sort of holy war.
I wonder if Wikinerd (the article's submitter) would ever actually be using the Patent Office's submission feature.
My guess is that they want to see how thier USERS would react to this change. Having 4,000 Slashdotters chime in with their opinion doesn't actually help them find out what their customers need. But, I think a lot of people who would write letters in support of other browsers would never use the system, and are actually just a bunch of un-necessary noise. But those same people are very happy to be that un-necessary noise.
Whenever I am creating a User Interface, we end up having small focus groups take a look at it, to make sure it is easy to use. (The focus groups are always from our organization, but hey, at least we are taking the step.)
The number one thing I hear, and the thing that pisses me off the most, is: "Well, *I* didn't have a ny problem with it, but I can see where someone *else* may have difficulty." I just want to scream at them, "*DID* you have problems?!?! I am asking about *YOUR* experience, not what you THINK someone else might have!!"
Either they don't want to admit that they really are a dumbshit, and don't understand how it works, (Which is actually the input we are looking for) or they really a whiz-kid and were able to figure it out, but nobody else will. But, since we usually take the dumbest people we can find, the second option is rarely the issue.
But, back on topic- are the REAL customers complaining about the need to use Internet Explorer? Or, is it just a bunch of outsiders who want to push their own agenda....
I used Wal*Mart for this same service, and I was surprised when they quit.
Wal*Mart started out being the cheapest, then forced everyone else to follow them into the low-priced space. Then Wal*Mart dropped the service, presumably because they weren't making any money. Will the other services keep the same prices?
Maybe Wal*Mart couldn't make money because the USPS can't rely on foreign labor. (Yes, I know, most carriers aren't too far from being foreign- but they still get paid American wages.)
But to the grand-grand parent who said that Amazon has an advantage because they have distribution centers already...
Don't you think Netflix has those too? It's not like both of them are coming out of the gate at the same time.
Frankly, I would base my decision on whoever uses the smallest envelopes. Gamefly uses envelopes that are *just barely* too big to fit in the outgoing slot in our mailbox (one of those 'neighborhood' things that sits on a pole and has like 20 small boxes). So I had to drive around to find a bigger box.
Seems like a small thing, but that is why I dropped Gamefly...the convenience of at home delivery really went down when I had to travel somewhere else just to return them.
I will admit it, I am a bad programmer.
One of the main reasons I am a bad programmer, is that I have been one of the people with a 'tool' (standard desktop apps) who has been looking for a place to use it...instead of having a project, and then looking for the tool. I have searched high and low throughout the place where I work for projects to fit what I wanted to do.
I got tired of writing web apps a few years ago, and I decided that I was going to start writing some desktop apps, and distribute them in the traditional way. I was thrilled with the idea of having 'versions' of my programs. Yes, that was actually exciting, rather than just doing a million incremental upgrades.
But alas, it was not to be. In the last 5 years we have not had need for a single program that would not run on all platforms. Or anything that did not retrieve real-time data, or anything that we wanted to use an new and different (non-web) interface.
Oh well, I finally gave up a few weeks ago. For me, in my position, non web-based programming is very, very dead.
No- it was an example of ignorance.
If we are ignorant of something, of course we don't miss it.
But once we experience it, then we want it.
Yes, absolutely. They are just working away happily, with no idea what they are missing.
Just like we all did before the Internet (what would we need that for?)
Or, just how we did before electric lights. (time to go to bed!)
Just like we did before automobiles (I've got a fast horse!)
Yes, you could easily argue that people can be just fine, dandy, and happy when don't even know what they are missing.
But once you have it, it is very hard to go back.
A couple of years ago, I bought my wife a wireless Microsoft Intellimouse for her Mac (OS 9, since upgraded to X).
Prior to her getting that on the computer, I (windows user) would go crazy with the lack of 'right-click' whenever I used her computer. She had no idea what I was talking about whenever I would start cursing and cussing, complaining, "god-damn stupid one-button mouse! I don't want to hold down the ctrl key!" (She was still using the hockey puck at the time)
Now it is great to hear her do the same thing whenever she gets on someone elses Mac. She starts complaining about how stupid it is, and where the heck is the right-button, who thought of this stupid system, and why don't they add another button...etc. etc..
And all the while, the other person (who owns the computer with a single button mouse) sits there wondering what the heck my wife is talking about.
Long story short...why the hell did it take them so long?
Ever heard of 'conspiracy?'
Without a law like this, only the 'trigger man' would ever be held liable for a crime, and other people could shield themselves.
No, the web-site didn't kill anyone, but they used it for planning and organizing.
Here are some definitions for 'conspiracy.'
I don't think they are shutting down, 'Voices of dissent.'
What they are doing is shutting down a conduit for the organization of groups whose purpose it is to kill civilians, disrupt society, and bring down the current government.
If all they were doing was 'voicing dissent' then most Western governments would allow that. It's when they go a step further, and start killing people, that it becomes a problem.
The important points I got from your message were:
A- You went to a school where kids are more likely to hang out in the library than a coffee shop.
B- You don't understand that a few simple line-breaks would make it a lot easier to read your message.
If you *really* think that Americans don't like to give something for nothing, then you have very little experience either in America, or other countries.
Perfect example: You have to pay for ketchup at McDonald's in Europe. And, what about the 'all you can drink' soda fountains?
I was in some stupid 'team building' meeting at work the other day. It was one of those things where they hired a motivational speaker to come in and tell us all how to be good people.
At one point, the speaker was talking about the 'Serenity Poem' and asked if anyone knew it.
So, I raised my hand, and I was sitting there thinking, "Oh yeah, I know that one!"
The instructor called on someone else, and she recited the "God give me the serenity to accept things I cannot change...blah blah blah..."
Whoops, I'm glad she didn't call on me...because I really thought she was looking for the, "Serenity Now, Serenity Now, Serenity Now" mantra from George's dad on Seinfeld.
That probably would have looked stupid...
Mr. Steele,
Good job...yes..those are the two (or 3 in the case of Cafe Roma. I don't know which location is worse, but I think the one by campus with the couches that sit out in the rain would be the winner).
My original point was that the businessman was doing what he thought he should be doing, based on his own business plan.
'Free Wi-Fi for Everyone' is not a necessary, or even desirable, part of all coffee shop business plans.
I used to own a print shop. Everyone told me I needed to have copiers, because it was so convenient, etc. etc.
They didn't realize that copiers cost a ton of money, and did not attract the clientele I was looking for. Grandma coming around and making her 10 copies each month was going to do nothing for my sales- yet grandma wanted the same level of service as customers ordering $10,000 of printing.
I made money, and grandma went to go drive my competitors nuts. I was very happy.
Some coffee shops thrive on the people who are going to sit there for hours, while others want to provide a nice atmosphere, but get you out the door a lot quicker.
Find out which ones are making real money, and emulate that.
If you are not opening your coffee shop in order to make money...then just invite your friends over to sit on the porch and drink coffee. You'll have a lot fewer hassles, and lose a lot less money.
Okay- Royalty mis-typing aside...
The entire article just screams, "I have never owned a business!"
See, the businessman sees this as a potential revenue stream. If he wants to run a successful coffee shop, he is thinking about ways to make money.
Going to businesses that make money is great- because they will be around for a while, and are generally nicer to be in.
The coffee shop owner may be thinking: "I only have seating for 12 people. If 5 people sit here for an hour, sucking up my bandwidth...where will the other customers sit?"
Ever go to a coffee shop in a university town? It sucks. Students claim every table, and spread out their laptops, papers, books, backpacks etc. Then they sit there for hours nursing one drink.
Sure, it is great for the students- but what about the business? A lot of other customers are scared away. There are two coffee shops in the town I work (university town) that I have not stepped foot in for about 3 years, exactly for this reason. Even the local Borders Books suffers from this problem.
Making $3.50 per table every 2 hours will not keep them in business. It's all about getting drinks out the door.
But supporting Windows 2000 (which if it is Enterprises, should be the only option other than XP Pro) does not make financial sense.
And only supporting SP2 is also a good plan. They WANT people to upgrade to SP2 for security reasons. The fewer people on older operating systems, the fewer black-eyes they'll get from security problems.
Security is a marketing issue, not an operational issue.
But really, if anyone is on a pre-NT code base system, (enterprises...Aunt Tilly doesn't know better) they deserve whatever bad news comes to them.
But if it is a solid browser, that addresses the shortcomings of IE 6, then it will do what it needs to do...
All it NEEDS to do is catch-up. Microsoft is in the position of dominance, and all they need to do is produce something 'good enough.' It is the upstarts that need to aspire to 'great.'
Because, being good enough, and coming installed on 90% of the computers sold is a very powerful combination.
Not to mention the fact that it still has the IE specific features that people use. It is the only browser that runs a good percentage of the WYSIWYG editors out there. And people will keep using it because of things like that.
Sadly, now the things valued most highly in American institutions (public and private) are things like 'diversity training,' 'empowering employees,' and 'inclusive respect.'
Actually doing a good job has ceased being the primary focus of our workplaces- we now sit around and talk about how wonderful we all are, even the stupid people have something to contribute. We really need to seek out their ideas, because they might give us a new perspective!
Sure, yes, all well and good. But when our kids end up working in some factory making cheap consumer goods for the Chinese- maybe 'sensitivity training' won't seem so important.
(Sorry, I just got behind on my work by a week while sitting through this week-long training course...)
Okay, Live was not working for you- but I don't understand one of your comments.
You don't like matchmaking, because you don't get to play with your friends. Okay- understand that.
But, you don't like to play unranked team games, because it usually degenerates into crap (which I agree with whole-heartedly). Got it.
But the last part didn't make sense to me. You don't want to create your own game, and limit it to your friends list...
But, with Counter Strike, you feel it is better because you can set up your own server and limit people who play.
I agree with everything you said about Halo 2 - except the part about creating your own games. In Halo 2 can do basically the same things you can do with a CS server (in regards to your complaints). As you mentioned, your friends list will let you limit who plays. If someone ends up actually being an idiot you have the choice of just muting them, or you can drop them.
Also, the demographic for Halo 2 is skewed heavily toward the 20's and 30's age group. Yes, of course there are people younger, but this is the game which attracts the most older players. I admit- when I am running a game, I will boot people who are under the age of 18- just on principle, but it doesn't end up happening very often.
Maybe the Halo 2 matchmaking system just isn't what you were hoping for. I know that the day after I first played it, I went back to work and told my other game-playing friends tht it was the dumbest, most idiotic, short-sighted, crappiest scheme they could have every come up with.
A week later I had to tell them that I was wrong- very wrong. I ended up thinking it was the most ingenious way to handle servers I had ever seen.
Some, thank goodness, at least try to act civilized...
Every civilization has been built on slime and greed.
Empires are not built by people who play fair.
Actually, Vista (the company) was stupid.
Fortunes can be made by waiting until the product comes out. After it sells in the millions (and millions), THEN you slap them with a lawsuit. This way you can take a cut of their profits from the products already sold, and tell them that your own business is 'irreparably damaged' because of the confusion.
Why sue BEFORE any money has been made?!? That's just a warning.
Well, I'm in clans on Xbox Live. Same thing you are talking about. Every Wednesday we get together for some games. In fact, we can go to Bungie.net to see our scores, how we compare to each other, etc. etc. Xbox Live isn't just 'force-fed.'
Yes, voice chat is voice chat. And it is very nice to have a 'conference call' with your buddies while waiting for the host to set up the new game settings.
When I get into a game with someone who is an idiot, I can mute them- and still just listen to everyone else. Very convenient. I can't even imagine playing team games without voice chat anymore. Yes, you can send a few pre-defined messages on a lot of PC games, but you can come up with much more comprehensive communication when you can really talk.
Really- try it some more, Xbox Live is really good. I am saying this after having at least 5 years of serious on-line play on PC's. I like Xbox Live a while lot more.