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IE7 Bugs and Reviews
An anonymous reader wrote to mention a Register article in which the possibility is raised of the current build dumping Yahoo and Google toolbars. At the same time, GWBasic writes "I've posted a review on IE 7 Beta 1. It is very clear that, unlike when Microsoft targeted Netscape, they are using their classic method of producing superior software by catering to the needs of the user. This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design." Flexbeta and ZDNet have looks at the new browser as well.
When it was called Firefox.
Also, the latest version of Yahoo's toolbar *does* work.
It might take a month for all the new stuff to be available for free in a dozen other browsers.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Yup, Microsoft looks like it made a poor imitation of Firefox. But hey, according to Microsoft apologists, nothing exists until Microsoft (re)invents it. So there you go.
But the next time someone says "OSS only copies from Microsoft", remind them of IE7.
Almost all the new features in that review (minus the "anti-phishing" functionality) are duplicates of things already done by firefox (tabs, customizable search box in the top right, etc).
...when it was called "Mozilla"
I like it better than Opera and Firefox, only because the security features might actually work this time. I use Firefox most of the time, since my IE went crazy with infections and pop-ups.
Many of the UI features in here look like the same features as Firefox/Safari. This has the potential to hurt the firefox market share. At the same time, I wonder what the OS browser developers can do to add new toys to them. I have not seen anything worth noting in deer park (the next gen mozilla browser).
Evolution or ID?
The only thing that could be called truly new is the combined dropdown box for Back and Forward. Interesting idea, but it's certainly not "a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
LordBodak's journal.
Perhaps it doesn't copy other browsers. But its very existence is driven by the others. Who really thinks that if Firefox were not getting popular that MS would go back on their statement that there would be no major revisions after IE 6?
Jeesh. Is that a disgusting window layout or what?
I'm not wrong. You haven't thought about it hard enough.
they are using their classic method of producing superior software by catering to the needs of the user
What does this mean?
From TFA:OK...so IE7 fails the acid test...just like IE6. Are there any browsers out there (other than that patched-up Safari version) that have actually passed the Acid Test? Any of them available for use?
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
"This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
IE Clippy: "It looks like you're trying to surf porn while avoiding spyware. Sorry, that just won't happen. Would you like to do it anyway?"
It's definitely coming to an end soon. The world that is. I, for one, am scared.
Even with tabs, without mouse gesture support it is useless to me.
The register article is wrong.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design.
I think everyone is putting too much emphasis on the new IE7 GUI and not even considering if there are any major impovements in supporting W3C standards. This is our chance to push Microsoft to support the web features of 2005. I know people are already jumping on the IE7 bandwagon and leaving firefox/opera but this is not wise.
Microsoft wins if people allow IE7 to be a crippled browser in terms of web development.
According to the IE team leader,a 10776 the toolbars should work in IE7.
http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/07/28.html#
The only feature in IE7 that I need is the ability to download the lastest version of Firefox.
Firefox "copied" Opera. IE with XP Sp2 has had a pop up blocker in it for over a year now. Firefox has security issues the same as IE. The only difference is Firefox offers more customization options. Hop off the bandwagon and get your fingers out of your ass.
I'm so glad IE is supporting tabbed browsing. Now when you visit a malicious website, it will be able to open up multiple tabs and install 30 pieces of adware / spyware / malware simultaneously. Isn't progress wonderful?
I know this is a beta, but I am not a fan of this screwy UI at all, ESPECIALLY on XP. The menu placement is awful and totally inconsistent with the rest of the system (even with MS Office). This will confuse scores and scores of XP users.
Tabbed browsing has been added, dropdown search, add-on manager. Now where have I seen those all before?
Seems like a good effort by Microsoft to play catch up, but that's it. Aside from the anti-phising feature, I've yet to see one new feature of any importance.
Huh? The reviewer says the above comment, yet his lead-off of innovative features is "tabbed browsing", which Firefox has had since... well, forever. Looks to me a helluva lot like IE 6 with a few features stolen from Firefox.
I can't wait until Microsoft partners with a Nigerian phishing ring and all of a sudden that particular page stops showing up on the phish protection page.
More of the same! It's refreshing to see a reviewer so excited about sameness.
It's good to see they've taken the next step in the evolution of the user interface, and combine two functions into a single button - now you too, can accidently click the 'stop loading' button twice to reload the page you didn't want. Revolutionary stuff.
Considering the Web the new platform for building applications ( using AJAX, CSS2 and whatever else the Web gurus come up with ), it is a given that Microsoft cannot afford to loose the browser wars.
This actually may turn out to be more important than loosing to Apple or even Linux ( on the desktop ). Their product is the most popular in the market, but the underdogs are catching up fast. They are better in all respects, they get evolved where IE rarely gets updated, geeks love them.. Its a touch call for Microsoft. They are placing their bets on Lonhorn and IE7. Should their new toys fail to meet the raised expectations, Microsoft will loose big. By Google, Apple, IBM and everyone waiting to get his chance against the King.
Technology ramblings : Simple is Beautiful
They completely broke the UI.
First they violate their own guidelines by removing the menu from the top of the window. To boot, they made the UI a whacked around version of every other browser UI, with the back and forward buttons at the top next to the address and search bars, but the home button elsewhere and stop/reload mashed into one button at the other end of the address bar. They also don't have a dropdown menu on the back button, which is essential for getting away from sites that break that functionality.
Suffice it to say, this is what we've got for "progress" thanks to microsoft's browser dominance. No true significant advancements in the technology because microsoft's held it stagnant for so long. Thankfully they've got competition now, so maybe things can improve.
They've still got a long way to go.
He admits early in the writeup that he hasn't used non-IE browsers in over two years, yet says the IE7 feature set isn't borrowed from competitors.
Any Firefox user can see that almost all of the features being touted are simply borrowed from Firefox.
Wow.. While stating his preferences, the author stated that he stopped using non-microsoft browsers over two years ago, as they "seemed unpolished".
That's akin to saying 'Oh. I'm writing a review on a new typewrite. Does everything you could ever need it to! By the way, I'll state my preference, I stopped using those word processor thingies 20 years ago because they looked unpolished'.
For a review to be meaningful in the context of current technology, you have to at least have a good overview of the state of current tech.
Perhaps a useful view for those that are MS only shops about how things have come along, but.. For the rest of the world.. Nothing to se...
"I stopped using non-Microsoft browsers over two years ago because I found them to be unpolished."
and yet you say:
"This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
How would you know? You don't use the competition. After reading the review, IE7 so far doesn't provide anything much over Safari or Firefox. Tabs? Search bar next to the URL bar? Combined Reload/Cancel buttons? Try running Safari and Firefox more, these features have been around for a long time.
Stopped using non-IE browsers because they were unpolished????
IE has spent the last couple of years behind the times! Firefox and Opera have shown more innovation than IE ever has!
Furthermore, in true MS style, they are using a new product to entice users to upgrade to XP. Kind of an expensive proposition! Firefox and Opera have no such requirements.
I'll never know if IE7 is good or not...I don't make OS decisions based on a browser.
Thank you once again Megasloth. I've been looking over the fence at all these "firefox" renegades, flouting you with their arrogance. Flaunting their "tabs" and their "security". But now I can browse confident in the fact that my penis is just as large as theirs. You've come through for me again, and right on time!
useless sig advice - Read Nabokov.
Definatly worth the time it took to read it. And good critism, but don't expect them to fix the Compatibility errors, from what I've heard MS is trying to steal another standard and make it their own.
..Microsoft is trying to gain on Google's success with the recent attempt to copy the mapping application and the 'Start preview' website http:///http://www.start.com/3/> they will not make the mistake of disabling the ability to use these tool bars and search functions in the final release of IE7. That would be a self-imposed massacre of IE's browser market place. They should be spending this time to disable the various malware search boxes that magically appear in the browser. Futhermore, is anyone else sick of the hype of IE7? How long does it take to update and release a browser? I guess this is one of the reasons that they have hired open-source developers to find out how to 'release early and release often' I'm sick of Microsofts continuing efforts to dominate everything IT.
At least the author is pretty open about his bias. The writer goes on and on about the usability of IE, but proves he knows jack-shit about usability with three simple sentences:
"When only one tab is open, the tab bar is visible. At the right of all tabs is a small tab that immediately opens a new tab. This would make more sense as a button immediately to the right of the X to close a tab."
Yeah, that's sensible, put the "open new" button right next to the "close" button, that'll make sense for 99% of the population who don't have perfectly precise mastery of the mouse pointer. He also talks about dropping non-IE browsers years ago because they were "unpolished" but then mentions he switched to CrazyBrowser, which is a cluttered mess in its default configuration! The entire article screams of unprofessionalism.
I consider it rather strange that the renderings of the acid2 test pages IE7 produced in this guy's review differ somewhat from the results a colleague of mine got during his test with IE7 on Longhorn Beta 1.
Not that unreproducible behaviour of certain MS products is strikingly unfamiliar to me, though I still wonder what has happened there, and if this is going to be fixed (as well as the whole rest of the CSS-mess in IE) in the final version...
:%s/Open Source/Free Software/g
YTARY!
I don't mean to defend Microsoft. But anything they do will pretty much look like any other browser currently with those features already present
:|
So it's no suprising it looks like Firefox, how else could they design it ? Still, its in beta and GUI could still be rough until finished.
Incidentley, the GUI in Windows Classic looks disgusting
"Sweet llamas of the Bahamas !"
pretty friggin similar to firefox if you ask me with tabbed browsing and extensions (sorry, "add ons") and all (and search toolbar). Then there's a combined cancel and reload button --I guess that's what this line: "they are using their classic method of producing superior software by catering to the needs of the user" is all about -- saving me a few pixels of clutter.
sorry sorry, don't mean to be a hater. My word is that of humble opinion! (and props to this Andrew Rondeau character for taking the time to download such a product and checking out -- thought his feedback was good too).
Now then, Dmitri, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the Bomb...
Since IE is integrated in with the Windows Explorer, it would have been awesome to be able to tab your file system windows in Vista...unfortunately you can't (As far as i can tell). Even though the windows explorer looks just like IE7 (i'm assuming it's using it), it doesn't integrate ENOUGH (maybe this is from their previous legal issues). The new interface is not very intuitive, but like you apologists always say for Google...Its in Beta! Well thats my 2 cents (and a lot of parenthesis).
That is not the reason people switch to FireFox. Yes, it's nice when they get there, but the reason people are switching is because they are easy meat when using IE.
I haven't heard about any security enhancements to IE 7 but if we can assume any that have been added are on the same level of ability as "Genuine Advantage" then the Firefox developers have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Deleted
So is that why they decided to put the menu (file, edit, view, ..) below the tabs in a totally unintutive place? Not trying to be mean about it but everything else that they've ever made has placed that menu at the topmost position on the window.
Enable tabbed browsing requires a restart!
Why do you need to restart the browser for something so trivial!?
is that Microsoft is Rich. And therefore: 1. Could've afforded to invest in thinking up new concepts for the new browser, rather than having reading an article on why people like firefox, and putting that stuff in IE7. 2. Will now parade around with a colossal advertising campaign about how IE7 takes you to the Next Generation of the Internet, or Enables the Future of Web Interaction to Integrate You Ass Off, or whatever.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
They all copy features from each other. I hate to say this, but neither OSS and most definitely not Microsoft has come up with anything original. The real question that you should be asking is, how much has all this helped in terms of competition. We now have a browser (Firefox) that rocks and gaining support. So, what if they copy features. Imitation is the cheapest form of flattery.
The added value of IE over the main competitors (Firefox & opera) is not proven by this review as claimed in the intro (Quote: It is very clear that, unlike when Microsoft targeted Netscape, they are using their classic method of producing superior software by catering to the needs of the user. This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design.)
It is clear that this person is not ready to write reviews of software since he has not seen enough of the competition.
Also MS is again trying to bend the rules by purposely not making things work correct (browserbars as mentioned, but also again not able to pass the acid test while css was one of the reasons they claimed for having to rewrite IE6).
The phishing filter of IE is an interesting concept, but since it works on blacklisting basics (like with spam blacklists, see how well that works!!), I think it is a waste of time to use it. Just display the URL correct and disallow all those fals URL presentations as allowed in IE6.
Interesting is the opening of a new tab on middle click of the mouse. I would appreciate it if firefox was able to assign this to the middle mouse button as standard for opening links. Since tabs exist, I always use tabs.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
Dephine URL
- "Phishing?" Do not use that word in the final version. It looks stupid, it sounds stupid, and worst of all, like the one review said, no one but Slashdot users will know what it means.
- The menus. What the hell? I can understand the concept that by placing the menus next to the browser, the options apply to the tab, but honestly, most of them don't. This is totally inconsistent and just plain stupid.
- The tabs look alright. Not great, just alright. I think the "blank" tab to create a new tab is also stupid. I mean, maybe it's a good concept, but it needs more. Maybe a different color, or a small label, but just blank, it looks dumb.
- As usual, The Register is wrong. My Google Toolbar worked fine in IE7. Problem is, it looked like Firefox with the Google toolbar, simply redundant. I disabled it.
However, there are large improvements, like the rendering engine, and the Feeds (which I didn't play around with too too much). It's a good start, Microsoft, but I hope they're not finished yet. There's a lot of work left to do.I'm not sure I was aware of this method.I seem to remember a few times Microsoft "met the needs of the user" by supplying a "good enough" solution for less cost than the competition, but if I had to pick ONE time when they may have provided a better solution to take a market it would have been IE 4 (after ealier IE versions sucked) versus an aging and slow to develop Netscape, even then they had to bundle it, make illegal deals, and include ActiveX to screw up any chance at security. Mind you the author of this review would seem to think that was not a case of superior software winning out.
I'm not saying MS has never made a good peice of software, but in the past to dominate the market, price and vendor pressure seem to have been the preferred weapons. After they GET the market they have sometimes made a product that is amoung the best of breed (Excel would be my example here)
Insert pithy comment here.
Can a post on the main page get (score: -1 troll)?
useless sig advice - Read Nabokov.
My university, which is one of the largest in Virginia, has already prominently placed Firefox or Mozilla on virtually all of its lab machines. We also have a general user lab that runs Red Hat Enterprise Linux Workstation 4. More and more students are being conditioned to think "IE=bad for me" because if you live on campus or in an apt that uses the school network, then if you use an unpatched OS or browser, you can come back home if there's a major worm problem and find your access cut off until you upgrade. Firefox is the easiest way to get around that.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Revolutionary user-centric design? Who the hell let Microsoft's marketing department post a story here?
Now I'm not just blowing smoke here because I hate IE, but that "review" was the grossest, most one-sided waste of my time that I'd ever read. The guy praised Microsoft (and rightly so) for adding the search field and generally making the browser feature complete with every single other browser that has been out since 2002, but I don't think I heard one single critisizm other than the author not liking the use of the word "phishing". He said that there wasn't one default setting he would have changed, but what about the fact that phishing protection is OFF by default? We're talking about people who fall for phishing scams here. They won't have a clue how to enable something like that. Good UI design? How about the fact that the menubar is UNDER the tabs. What crack-smoking UI designer thought that one up? Ugh, the broswer looks like Firefox with a bad interface, the atrociously bad IE render engine (check out how badly it butchers the acid test!), and a phishing protection sceme that's off by default. Is that what user-centric design means?
However, overall I think the options that have been put into IE7 will work for most "mom 'n' pop" households.
With regards the actual UI:
- the combination refresh/stop button makes a lot of sense to me.
- the History button doesn't make sense. Which way is forwards? which way is back? granted, this isn't particularly clear in Firefox either, but still...
- The new tab tab (what the heck?) might get a bit mashed up with a lot of tabs in the same window
Otherwise, not too bad an upgrade to IE6.Only those UNIX people apparently don't have that, so they get all excited about tabbed browsing.
This comment is printed on 100% recycled electrons.
The Slashdot introduction says "This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
I'm sorry but that is about as wrong as it can be. Every single "new" feature mentioned in the article is already present in every other browser that I know of as a built-in feature or an add-on. This refresh of IE is clearly borrowed from the competition. Unless IE7 includes more changes than what was mentioned in the article, it will still be behind the day it comes out in Vista/Longhorn.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
Interface overhaul, but same old crappy engine, just like I expected... Wake me up when the IE passes the Acid2 test, which will be in about never...
Through the Vista it is clear.....
I'm not buying it
I can't bring myself to use a high end machine just so I can make it feel like my Pentium-II laptop.
i'd rather shell out for broadband and get back to using Linux
This was brought to you buy the Department of Redundancy Department
IE7 now features THE DISTANT PAST. This is like Ford announcing innovative new side airbags.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
...has Microsoft bought Mozilla ?
...what ??? not tonight ?? tomorrow then ?? no ? SAY WHAT ?? In a YEAR !? ...and maybe more ?? I can port all our software to Linux, Unix or OS X before Microsoft is ready with Vista...
or just FireFox ?
...and will we see an OutBird just as we just saw a InterFox ?
All this and everything about M$ Windoze Vista superiority may be seen on the Microsoft show tonight...
The upper-right corner of the IE 7 window contains a form that allows the user to launch a search
...
Revolutionary! And there's more
Google searches actually work!
Doesn't sound like he expects to omuch from Microsoft.
:wq
The IE7 beta says "whole lotta nuthin new here". Nothing that would make me consider using it instead of FF. Nothing.
I especially love MS's statement that IE7 will be for XP+ only! Great! Keep it to yourselves idiots. I'm glad it wont install on my Win2000 box.
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
It amazes me how some Slashdot users are, complaining that Microsoft has ripped off Firefox/Mozilla.
When will you people realise that Firefox 'borrowed' many ideas from Opera and other browsers? To say that a lot of the features of Firefox are original would be giving it far too much credit, while there are innovative features there are also features that are just evolutions of existing implementations elsewhere and also features that are just exact copies.
Just because Microsoft have finally caught up does not mean they've copied Firefox inside out. Yea, they may look the same now but no one was complaining 'Firefox/Mozilla copied Opera when they added tabbed browsing'
Please try to understand that software development is about continuous improvement and new products are often just evolutions of old ones. Without this process we wouldn't have any innovative features.
Another example is Linux itself, Linus made a clone of Unix but no one screamed he was ripping off or copying. Today, because of this clone we have an Operating System that is evolving and taking on concepts from embedded hardware, real-time operating systems, etc.. Few of these are *original* in their own right but the benefit to users is still there.
Note to Bill: Call it "Microsoft Phishing Philter" instead of just "Phishing Filter" and put an (r) after it to prevent anyone else from using it or anything that might act in a similar manner. Remember to file for patent before Bezos.
As far as I can see, the only things that are 'innovative' are
1. Menu bar below tabs so that each tab can have a different menu. I doubt many people actually use the top menus for much (all features most people need are in the button bar - print, refresh, stop, back). I develop websites and i rarely use the menu bar.
2. Refresh button moved to right of url bar and switches to stop icon when page is loading. To my surprise, many people didnt like FF because it didnt have the go button on the right of the url bar, FF introduced this because people expect it to be there. I can see a few problems with this 'innovation'. Firstly, the refresh button is quite often used when a page fails to load (hangs) or renders inproperly. People will not be able to refresh a page that is loading, they will have to click stop then refresh (2 clicks instead of 1). Secondly, if someone is at slashdot and types in microsoft.com and then hits the refresh button (being used to the go button), will they go to slashdot (current function on browsers) or will they go to microsoft?
3. Navigation. They have added a seperate button so you can see all pages in history instead of one dropdown for back and one dropdown for forward. This is one truly unique, and in my opinion stupid idea. It is not the sort of thing that will entice FF users back
Please someone tell me how his statement that 'This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design.' is true, and not some marketing BS
it's just me who finds the new layout horrible?
% 201/screenshot.png. Why on earth did they put the "file edit view etc." menu between the tabs and the final page?
Really, look at this: http://www.clothedandy.com/Writings/IE%207%20Beta
I mean, it's stupid. It "disassociates" tabs from the page, and it puts that menu in the middle. Why put in such relevant place a menu that it's so rarely used?
It's clearly a huge usability mistake IMO. It looks like IE developers though: "saving screen space == good usability". It's not. Good usability is good usability, and seeing that "file edit" menu there hurts my eyes.
Slashdot had an article about IE7 in March 2004. You can find more info in the first Google hit for IE7.
|/usr/games/fortune
Same shit, different name
Internet explorer 7 features a RSS button that is almost identical to Firefox's, Except they stuffed it up near the menu bar instead of the status bar and changed the orientation.
I will be staying with the Fox, as I have been since February 2004 (and with Firebird since July 2003)!.
Do you play with your Willy?
The obvious point of user-centric design that these articles is missing is one that Firefox has to a science:
Extensions.
Plug-ins do provide great extra content, I'll admit, but what other way can you have content centered on the user than to run content made by the user? Then again, if Microsoft tried that (as far as I know, they haven't), people would be writing extensions with hidden malware just to exploit IE. Point for Firefox.
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
This tendency of Joe's causes me to have to do a ton of extra work every time I build a site. Joe (and Bill) can bite me.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
"This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
Wow, that's the funniest and most completely bullshit sentence I have read all year. Nobody cares about the "evolution of user-centric design" (what the fuck is that supposed to mean, anyway? It's just 100% PR waffle, straight from the arse of a dihorettic bull), the general public variety of users don't know what they want, don't really care and shouldn't be given any say in the matter anyway.
It's us DEVELOPERS who have to put up with the "nuances" (and that's being polite) of Microsoft's sub standard browser offering. It's our employers who pay us a fortune in man hours so that we can work round these "nuances". And it's our future careers that depend on browse consistency and the full implementation of standards like SVG and CSS3. I am absolutely gutted that Microsoft failed on every level to implement worthwhile technologies and bring their browser up to scratch, they insult us developers by implementing long-overdue PNG transparency which we can't use until everyone has switched away from IE5/6 anyway, and claim to have "improved" their abysmal CSS support.
Who gets the real benefit from the new IE? The people who matter most. The mindless drones who will lap up any offering from MS, or get it installed on their PC automatically whether they like it or not. The people too stupid to have switched to a better browser already. The brain-dead end users have their silly tabs and phishing scam (read: user stupidity) filter, and we get nothing.
Even if this is "just a beta" it demonstrates not days, not months, but YEARS... yes YEARS of freaking work and does not include any significant changes. It doesn't even deserve a new version number. We all know it already, but Windows is a joke, IE is a joke, and Microsoft are a joke who can't be bothered to do anything properly because as long as idiot uneducated users lap up their crappy products they have an enduring monopoly and there is not a damned thing we can do about it.
I say us developers should lobby our employers to sue over lost profits. Microsofts failure to implement standards means we are still unable to deliver cutting edge software to our users, and we still have to put up with IE's goddamned quirks. Microsoft should be sued by every company on earth with its hand in web development and FORCED to bring their crap-pile browser up to scratch and keep it that way instead of pissing away their time making sure the browser interface is just the right degree of "fucking confusing" to send any sane persons hatrid of IE into critical mass.
For lack of a better ending. GRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Gadgetoid.com - Gadgets & Games Journalism
This sound like some kinnda anti-trust issue.
Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have.
that he isn't using Vista? Looks to me like someone sent him a frontend for IE and told him it was a IE7 beta.
OMG SOEMOEN SI H4X0RING MAI B0X3N!1!
The only thing that could be called truly new is the combined dropdown box for Back and Forward. Interesting idea, but it's certainly not "a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
B rowser Helper Objects/ to delete them (try to help people with that over the phone), IE finally has a way to disable the stupid toolbars. Also evolutionary.
Boy, aren't we trollish today.
1) IE finally got with it and threw in tabbed browsing. Not revolutionary, since Opera and Mozilla came up with it before, but evolutionary for sure.
2) IE finally came up with a simpler navigational system. Until now IE needed two toolbars on the top of my screen compared to Firefox's one (not including the tab bar or the menu bar). They simplified their back and forward buttons, as well as combining the stop and refresh button, and combined two toolbars into one. Certainly evolutionary.
And the best part...
3) Microsoft included an Add-on manger with this version of IE 7. It allows BHOs to be turned on and off.
What can I say? IT'S ABOUT FREAKIN' TIME!
For those who don't know the acronym, BHO stands for "Browser Helper Objects," or as they've been described to me by other users, "Toolbars from hell." They're the adware-included toolbars littered with casino links and junk, as well as redirecting all your 404 and search inquiries to their sponsored pages. Finally, rather than having to dig through the registry to HKLM(and HKCU)/Software/Microsoft/CurrentVersion/Explorer/
However, I do still have one complaint. Microsoft can piss off for making this XP-only. 50% of businesses are still using 2K. That's a lot of people to piss off.
How are other web developers planning on dealing with the issue of testing for multiple browsers? In my office, we do our best to make sure our site and software is compatible with the most current browser on a user's platform, but most of our users have Windows 98 or Windows 2000, not XP (which we have in our office). I've never been able to have multiple versions of IE on one computer; does anyone know if that will change with IE7?
We already recommend Firefox to our customers as a superior alternative to IE. Our site is developed and tested primarily on Firefox, then IE for backwards compatibility. Even so, though, this issue has me concerned.
-- The reason it's called the right wing? Irony.
Really, it's just a browser, who cares? Nobody stands to make a huge bank off of browser sales, so what's another browser gonna hurt? And i'm not talking about standards which 98% of the internet population doesn't give a damn about (the famed acid2 test, big whoop!)
Disclaimer: I do NOT agree with Microsoft's predatory business tactics.
Will wank off Linus Torvalds for fame.
What a sterling silver, perfect, museum-quality example of what bad UI does to a user. You learned to manually kill processes, constantly. If I designed a car and drivers trained themselves to kill the engine in drive every time, that would be some shoddy design on my part.
(MS can't possibly outdo the dialog boxes from Excel when you try to save to a different format, though. For teaching the user to ignore what's being said and impatiently click "Yes" -- dang it! -- those are without equal. Particularly in conjunction with the way they include a second "Save Changes" dialog if you try to close the document you've just saved to the other format. Every user trains herself to ignore those after the first time or two.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
"they are using their classic method of producing superior software by catering to the needs of the user"
LOL! - sounds like this review was written by a Microsoft shill to me, as almost everything was a reimplementation of features in FireFox.
I liked the combined back/foward list, but this seems to be the only feature it has that FireFox misses...
Maybe it's just me, but in a perfect world MS would just dump IE altogether, donate a bunch of money to the Mozilla Project and just work cooperatively with the folks that put together the excellent Mozilla and FireFox browsers to do something completely unexpected .... the right thing for the customer (i.e. putting out the best of breed Browser).
Seems to me that web developers lives would be a lot easier as well.
Of course the temptation to wrest control of the Mozilla project might be a little too much for the Suits at Microsoft to resist.
Type "about:mozilla" in the address bar of firefox & press ENTER.
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
OK...I must just be missing it...but where is the Stop button (red x)? It's usually by the back, forward, refresh buttons but I don't see it in the beta of IE7. And I can't find it in the toolbar customization options either. Anyone?
Then he mentions these superior features: .... opens a new tab. I was like, wow. And then he explains that he doesn't think it's a good UI element anyway.
- tabbed browsing
- a context menu that opens links in a new tab
- it doesn't pass the acid test
- it has "phishing protection" (whatever the hell that is--he doesn't explain what it does)
- a revolutionary navigation system where you can see your browsing history in one list
- a (small) tab that
- a search box in the top right corner - lack of toolbar options
- you can manage the addons in the browser.
This guy is an idiot. Look at the prefs. It's just the IE6 prefs with the version number bumped. And this guy has the nerve to suggest that IE7 is completely different from the current version? Come on!
Ok say he stopped using mozilla three years ago(thats more than two).
Three years ago,
firefox DID NOT EXIST,
Mozilla was at version 1.0!
Netscape was at the tail end of the Netscape
6.X fiasco that nearly killed off Netscape based browsers
In 2005
Firefox is at 1.06
Mozilla has been retired for almost a year after version 1.78
and Netscape is at verion 8
The guy is not biased, bias would imply he knows what hes talking about but slants the facts in one direction. The reviewer is a moron who doesnt bother to research.
I think everyone here is missing the big picture. Let microsoft copy the look of firefox in fact we should encourage it. That what when grandma gets tired of crashes and spyware you can simply drop in firefox and there is no learning curve!
1. Profit! ... ?
2. Profit!
3. Profit!
4. Profit!
5.
6. Catch Up
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
It also seems that Microsoft is using all its "security initiatives" to intrude evermore into consumers' lives, get more data about them, sign them up for Microsoft services, and lock out competitors. With IE7, apparently there will be yet another layer of intrusion: phishing protection by sending all visited URLs to Microsoft. Do you really think the average user will think about the privacy implications of this?
And let's not kid ourselves: Microsoft is not the only company doing this. Today I installed a Logitech mouse under Windows, and guess what -- it wanted to install a "Logitech messenger" to automatically get updates and deliver "product information". Spyware and adware, it seems, is becoming the norm, rather than the exception, even for "respectable" applications. Microsoft's interest in spyware maker Claria confirms this trend.
Now, IE7 will offer some features which competitors have had for years to average users who would never try Firefox. This is a good thing, and as some have pointed out, the gigantic feature advantage that Firefox will retain (particularly its extensibility, but also upcoming improvements such as SVG support and super-fast back/forward) will hopefully drive more users to it. I can't help but wonder, though, whether we are witnessing the development of a massively polarized information society, where some will work and play in a maximally commercialized environment full of spyware and ads, and others will have free software, built by regular people in their own enlightened self-interest. And it seems that Microsoft, rather than AOL as was predicted in the early days of the Net, is the driving force behind this.
Perhaps it is time to rethink the PC concept -- from what is preinstalled to service and support -- on the basis of free software. An "open PC" that comes with thousands of free applications and games as well as an Internet-based support and update contract could be an excellent deal. Lindows seems to have tried something like this, but they don't seem to be clued up enough to me to pull it off.
Should we really be reading on /. a review of IE7 by someone who knows that much about browsers as not to have tried FF? Or any other non-MS browser for the past two years?
Is this a joke?
Improve at backgammon rapidly through addictive quickfire position quizzes: www.bgtrain.com
So has anybody done anybody done anything serious with this yet? I'd be interested to hear of any consequences to apps that embed the MSHTML web control.
Here is a free download of IE7 with standard-compliant code added.
Classic method of producing superior software? As opposed to their classic method of spreading FUD, their classic method of "embrace, extend, extinguish", or their classic method of cutting off the competition's air supply?
I'll grant that Microsoft did improve IE a great deal during the Netscape days, as one of the prongs in a multi-pronged attack on that company. Hell, history shows that the only motivation that Microsoft has for improving IE at all is competitive threat. The fact that they're starting to show some genuine improvement in IE again (after some years of stagnation) is testament to the fact that they're taking Firefox seriously.
What distinguishes this from the Netscape days is that Microsoft already played their "integrate the browser into the OS" trump card, and their new competitor has no "air supply" revenue streams to constrict. On top of which, Google is demonstrating itself to be a damn clever producer of web-applications which are genuinely cross-platform, so the whole "embrace and extend" tactic is starting to show signs of fatigue.
Microsoft might face a new challenge here: going feature-nuts on IE is one way to compete, but it's likely to open up new avenues of insecurity in a browser that already has the worst security track record. I don't think of Firefox as the be-all and end-all in secure browsing, but can Microsoft deliver the goods in security, even against a less-than-perfect competitor? I know they can bolt on features like there's no tomorrow, but it looks to me like security is the major root cause of Firefox migration at this point. Can Microsoft compete on security?
proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
Well the register needs to check their sources or at least try something out before posting such nonsense.
First off I have been running Google Toolbar with no issues in IE7 on Windows Vista Beta 1 now for a day no problems.
Secondly if they were so slanted against other search engines why would there be an option to use diffrent engines in the drop down list next to the search field in IE7's tool bar.
And thirdly the beta is not only for Windows Vista Beta 1 users. There is also an IE7 beta version for use on XP as well.
Check your information before posting lies Register...
you would still suck bill's dick for 10,000 cash. di*ck*hea*ds*
Both the browser itself and the rendering engine feel very snappy. It seems to have dropped a lot of bulk. I would even go so far as to say its snappier then FireFox. The PNG support finally works (3 releases after they said they supported PNG (since IE 4). The PNG support alone is a huge, and WAY overdue plus.
The bad: At least a couple DOM incosistencies that I've noticed in past releases are still there.
The really bad: Whoever is responsable for the UI is on crack! Things like moving the bloody menu bar away from the very top of the window, where it is in every single bloody other application to an irritating location beneath the tabs is retarded.
The UI just looks so disgustingly wrong (though slick compared to the putrid new interface of the new MSN Messenger.)
I can't even use the latest version of Messenger, its UI is way too vile.
Hopefully these garbage UI trends don't continue in this direction.
-- End Rant --
Any word on PNG support on this thing? None of the review talk about it. It's the second most important thing to me when it come to browser; first being CSS support.
------ http://timothylive.net
3) Microsoft included an Add-on manger with this version of IE 7. It allows BHOs to be turned on and off.
Am I the only one that's ever done: Tools -> Internet Options -> Programs Tab -> Manage Add Ons Button in IE6?
Even their evolutionary stuff has already been done, by them! The screens look exactly the same in IE6 as 7.
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- William James
Sharnig Stop and Refresh is a *GOOD* idea?
No, it's a crummy idea. Apple uses it in Safari, which is why when I use a Webkit/KHTML-based browser on Mac OS X I use Shiira.
Possibly Microsoft's using their classic method of copying Apple's ideas whether they're good or bad again?
From Dave Shea: IE7 CSS Updates
From Joe Clark IE7 The saga begins
And finally Molly Holzschlag, speaking on behalf of WaSP: That's why it's called beta
They know shiat doesn't work right.. The response from them isn't only appropriate but also clear:
"The whole point of doing a developer beta is to identify potential rendering breakages and changes and resolve them before we hand out IE7 to the broader marketplace. We are working actively to identify any issues with actual rendering problems and resolving those. This beta is one part of that mission."
So in other words, thanks for the feedback and stop finding shit just to bitch about. This site used (USED) to be an intelligent (even funny) discussion of technology. Not 'let's bash MS' for everything that happens...
This works by checking against a "known list" of phishing sites? WTF? Phishing "sites" are hacked boxes that have a life of about one week at best. If that is how this thing works it must suck.
It looks like Firefox (but uglier), will only run on Windows, and still has shitty standards support? Wow, sounds great. Sign me up.
This is actually quite good, because it means that IE7 will probably work on IE7. :-)
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
i think the real power of firefox is the whole mozilla (software) design. the browser i use is firefow with a theme i like and the extensions i need.
for example, some forums do permit direct links, you only have them in plain text. the linkification extension makes clickable links from these texts. just one example. i'm used to this comfort, and whenever i'm forced to use ie, i feel the lack of comfort.
beer as in "free beer"
I prefer Opera's method of searching from the address bar much, much better than the drop down search capabilities. When I want to search for something at google, I just type:
g something
and Opera sends my request off to google. This method saves space on the toolbars as well, since the dropdown search area is not needed anymore.
Looks like the "Browser Wars" are on again. I pity the poor web developers.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
I've used IE7 for about a day now and find it works well enough. Nuances of where buttons are etc are typical for any browser redesign and are a minor learning curve. I had to spend a small amount of time familiarizing with ff too.
This is a beta, and a beta one at that. I find the bashing and such unseemly. Yes, ff is in my opinion better, but I would rather MS try to give us what we've shown we like rather than what they think is good for us. Borrowing popular design features from your competitors is a time honored tradition is every industry. It doesn't freak me out or offend me. Hopefully, enough feedback from users will result in a more polished product at final. That is the idea really.
The under the hood stuff that matters to developers, is in my opinion and probably for 99 per cent of the users, irrelevant. Developers have to make it work. I could care less about acid test and css compliance. I want it to render fast and go where I want. Frankly, I still find for most sites, that IE renders a bit faster. Not significantly, but it is there.
I expect on this board where "ms = evil" to go on trashing this and vista (stupid name), but the reality is that one week after being released as final, they will both have a larger installed user base than mac and linux combined. Ditto on the browser front. And that is with people having to go to the trouble of downloading IE7.
Like it or not, if a challengers are going to even break 15 per cent combined, they are going to have to wow the general public with ease of use and integrated features. Having a group of geeks feeling smug in their little corner of the net does not bring success. Sorry, I didn't invent the world.
It would be anti-trust if the article were correct. As many, many have pointed out, Andrew Orlowski once again f**ked up a screed by bring incorrect. All it breaks are OLD version of the Yahoo toolbar (the ones Yahoo says not to use anymore) and it does not break the Google toolbar.
Orlowski is so full of crap.
It was in Opera 6, before Safari existed.
After installing IE7, Trillian no longer loads that box.
Kind of funny how IE can break unrelated 3rd party apps, but I think there's probably some bad exception handling in Trillian here. If it's trying to use a new MSN messenger library, I'd expect the app to still load, perhaps without being able to connect to the MSN network.
Anybody else able to duplicate this? A couple other users have reported this behavior on the IE Blog.
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
What about 24 bit PNG support? I'm not a member of MSDN but maybe I should become one so I can also send them feedback - or would I be wasting my time?
Kiteboarding Gear Mention slashdot and get 10% off!
I just tried Firefox 1.06 on The Second Acid Test and it looks like it fails as well. I guess that now means Firefox is just as half-baked as IE7 if you go with the standard ranking system on Slashdot. Not that anyone will actually acknowledge that, of course.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
The reason I read the review was to find out if I can use IE7 on my current OS.
He brought up interoperability (by way of example), and then stresses the importance of accessibility by all architectures, yet the article doesn't mention the fact that the last IE made for UNIX still remains to be IE 5.0 for Unix
Free unix account: freeshell.org
obviously firefox is better... it has a way cool burning-fox-world logo, it coult totall take the wimpy IE7 and operas logos
Simpsons already did it!
Too little, too late.
Meh.
A lot of us have stopped trying to make things compatible with IE. Coding to standards wins!
Meh.
Another basic browser that just has stop, refresh, home, back, forward, search bar and tabs.
Don't say "that's called Firefox." Firefox has something more: extensions and themes.
iCab3 beta for Mac OS X and Mac OS 9(!) passes Acid2 test and is freely available for download.
I'm currently using the beta (as I write).
Something that actually surprised me was the dropdown list for the search box. It actually includes non-MSN Search options. I figured they'd only implement their improved MSN Search until perhaps another beta.
The button arrangement is kinda awkward. The tabs appear over the menu and button bar. The exception is the Back and Forward buttons.
Perhaps future betas will allow users a Firefox level of customization.
Overall: a little nicer than IE6. I understand they're busy trying to get Vista ready for the market and Firefox is nibbling away at their marketshare. For those oblivious to Firefox's existence this'll soon appear as a required MS update for XP users (when it goes gold). And they'll feel they already have something "as good as" Firefox when they finally hear about the alternative.
The trouble with Karma is: it always gets worse.
Moving the menu bar breaks the Windows standard user interface. Meanwhile, Firefox has followed the Windows standard user interface as completely as they can... sometimes to the detriment of non-Windows ports.
Also, moving the tab bar away from the window makes it harder to immediately identify which tab you're on.
Merged stop-and-reload is just plain daft. The only current browser I know that does this is Safari, and it's the biggest reason I use Shiira instead of Safari on Mac OS X. Is Microsoft copyng Apple's bad ideas again, like when they released the first version of Windows with cooperative multitasking despite having concurrent multitasking working first?
Both these problems can be avoided by using the HTML control from another application, as you can see by the screen-shot of Crazy Browser.
Merging the drop-downs into a single button is visually confusing and doesn't save any space. Putting some of your navigation controls on the opposite side of the address bar is also confusing.
All in all, I'd say the user interface is significantly less consistent and more confusing than IE5 or IE6. This is almost a step back to the early days of the web when browsers seemed to be in a contest to see which could be weirder.
PS: The search bar is just a copy of the search bar on every other browser out there, except the "select search engine" button is on the other side.
PPS: Microsoft can't avoid the reboot when it installs IE, because it's replacing a component that it's using all over the system... they need to kill and restart every GUI program on the system to move the old control out of the way.
At the bottom of the first page of the Flexbeta review I noticed a window warning me that 'my computer may be suffering from frequent crashes..etc etc' and that I should click 'Yes' to 'scan my computer'. It actually took me a couple of seconds and a second look to realise it was an ad and not another IE7 screenshot. :D
I had the same complains, but I then discovered the "Add a keyword for this search". Go into any seach engine, right click in the search text input box, choose the option from the menu. You'll be able to set your own keyword this way, to search from the address bar, exactly like in opera. The difference is, all and any search engine, it doesn't have to be added by opera.
I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design.
I don't think so. This is almost a complete FireFox ripoff. Even then it's not even that good. Speaking of which, unless you're running longhorn, it doesn't appear as if you're capable of changing any of the settings for I.E. You click, but nothing happens to the checkbox. Good software design Microsoft. Other than the phishing and refresh/stop being together, there's precious little i.e. has that firefox doesn't, and FF has extensions and themes to boot.
Meh.
And although I am exclusivly a Firefox user, I say "So Fucking WHAT"? You are saying only IE alturnatives can use these things? They are the exclusive property of Firefox and Opera? So IE finally has these things and you trash it for this? You trash IE because it doesn't have these things then you trash IE because it does? Makes you look kind of like a jack ass, but that's your problem.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
i get why IE is sucky to use. i've recently started using Netscape because it's authorized on our LAN at work but Firefox isn't. i use Firefox at home, but i'm thinking of using Netscape at home too. Question: Why is Firefox better than Netscape? Question: Why is Thunderbird better than Gmail? thx.
when will this be available for Macintosh?
The reason that the menu is below the tabs is simple. If it were above the tabs, then you'd be able to use the menu even when Javascript has annoyingly tried to disable it.
To you or me, being able to use the menu at any time is a feature. To MS, however, it's a bug - it gives control to the user, which is basically anathema to the whole concept of a leveraged monopoly.
My analysis may be a little paranoid, I'll admit.
If your comment title says 'Re: Foo', I'm not likely to read it.
Yes, but very little here is any more than Microsoft / IE trashing that has very little to do with road testing a beta.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Irony. MSIE7 has a bug. Given Microsoft's history, it's a very embarrassing bug. So el reg points out the natural irony in the situation with some artificial irony. That's not the same as being wrong.
Right now I have a ton of css hacks in place to handle MSIE 6 ... How will IE 7 affect those?
Will I ahve to remove them, so that IE7 renders properly? (But IE6 no longer does)
Will I have to keep using the same hacks to get my pages to work?
Will it ignore the IE6 Hacks, and render properly?
Option #3 is by far the best, ignore the hacks like Firefox and Safari (and opera and the rest), and just render the page as intended.
I've been using IE7 for months now Luna Blue
I am glad to see that they are still unable to make a prefs dialog that doesn't involve scrolling (vertically and horizontally, and no resizing) through pages and pages of obscure options to find the one you want in their arbitrary sorting scheme. If there is any one ui problem in IE that is the most glaringly bad, it's that one.
Nobody cares about you, then.
Yeh, but the internet is but a poor imitation of the full power of Internet Explorer 7--wait a minute...
I would like to see some browser implement the history as a tree. Urls you type in or open from a bookmark or the link bar would appear as the first level of nodes in the tree. Pages you get to by links from other pages would show up as a node under the page that linked to it. This way you would see every page you went to and how you got there.
I think this would be more intuative for the users and more informative as the current history as list views give you no information about how got to a page. If you visited a few hundred pages last week and are trying to find a particular on that was linked from slashdot, using the list approach you would have to search the whole list, but with the tree approach, you would just have to open the slashdot node, and search the nodes below it.
There is a tremendous amount of "bitching" which is functionally different from "constructive criticism"
I claim that the difference lies primarily in the mind of the beholder.
Good. It's been MS turn to contribute something for a while now
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
Microsoft doesn't seem to play catch-up too well anymore.
Virtual Earth is nowhere near Google's offering, and IE7 really is just an attempt to prevent defections.
It seems that Microsoft is trying to not look so bad, by offering something at least 'near' to what the competitors are offering.
Also, if Microsoft finds an IT company that's doing very well for itself in a lucrative market, that's Microsoft's next venture. All of the good ideas don't come from Redmond.
Linux/Open Source/Anti Microsoft News
Please excuse my fixation on appearance and design as that is my line of work.
This looks like garbage. Total fucking garbage.
I realize it is a beta but I will assume Microsoft is using the standard def'n od 'beta' in that it is feature complete but with outstanding bugs.
The entire interface is a bug. God, I don't even know where to start. The tabs are brutal, completely nonsensical placement between a menubar and the toolbar. Tiny, tiny refresh/stop button, one of the most used buttons in any browser and its about 10 pixels across. Tiny, tiny throbber - which is nothing new from old versions but again, is a vital part of the browser's user feedback. That sucker should be a lot more obvious (how much time have you spent staring at the stupid globe?). Also a second tiny icon toolbar, mixed with the menu... god damn, if they didn't set out to break every rule of good UI design, they have failed miserably in the interface department. I really can't believe how bad that is.
And - where is the antialiased text? What year is it? My fuggin' PSP has antialiased browser text!
I know it seems like I am freaking out a bit, but honestly, for one of the world's biggest software companies with more money than Satan to inflict this on such a huge proportion of the computing public is just kind of sick. This one app will deeply affect most computer users. And it sucks worse than practically anything else.
Firefox devs, rejoice. You have handed the giant its own ass.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
> The only real disadvantage IE 7 has is that it will only be available for XP SP2.
That's still a pretty significant disadvantage to corporate customers since something like 40-50% of all workplace Windows machines still run Win2K. Firefox is fast becoming the darling of Windows IT admins because it installs and manages easily, has far fewer security flaws and it just bloody works.
I'd wager that this workplace exposure is at least partially responsible for the popularity of Firefox on Windows home machines. If it works at work, why not use it at home? And though it's true that nearly all new home computers purchased come with XP SP2 on it, not everyone is willing to schuck out a grand every few years to replace their dear old Win98 or 2K boxen.
Most businesses are still stuck on W2k. They only get XP when they get a new machine, and for many companies (especially the small ones), this only happens when the old one dies or can't run the software anymore. As more apps move to the internets, the incentive to upgrade will go down. Don't have the .NET runtimes,
and can't install 'em on your Windows 98 box? Who cares? "Just fire
up the internet icon and click on the accounting button on the
intranet page" says the PHB.
My experience says things are different. Most people DO have an old PC, because they aren't geeks and don't care about getting the latest ATI card so they can play GTA:XXX. How old is your microwave? Why don't you 'upgrade' it? That's the same feeling the average person has towards computers.
Yeah, right.
Tabbed browsing... WooooW!
I musta been in suspended animation with the Freezer Geezer for this technology to have progressed so fast!
IE7 looking like firefox is the least of my concerns, just confirms the trend toward what internet browsing is going. One thing not discussed though is the memory use. No matter what I am doing in IE, the memory usage will always be smaller than Firefox by at least 50%. (Three tabs in Firefox = 43,264 K / IE6 3 windows opened 23,076 K) As a control freak checking my task manager every 62 minutes, 50% more memory used for browsing is a catastrophic incident that is corroding my affiliation to Firefox.
It SUCKS. I tried installing it the other day (yes, I know, daring huh) and at the end of the install it said I did not have access to install this. I'm not only an administrator on my machine, but the ONLY user. It now won't let me uninstall it because it says it was installed by another user. Now IE and half of the Control Panel forms are broken. Thank god for firefox...
Wow, this may be the first time I've seen an article that doesn't bash Microsoft (often unfairly).
I'm proud of you. I might actually start coming back to Slashdot more often.
It looks and acts like firefox, based off of what i saw in the review. How long ago did microsoft release IE6, or even XP for that? I'd really love to see something totally innovative. A few features in Windows Vista sound that way, but not really. It's just sad to see microsoft copy off of what firefox already offers, instead of trying to think outside the box and add something totally new and useful that nobody ever thought of before. But at least they have google in their search box. I was surprised by that, actually. I would have thought microsoft to lock the user into MSN search.
http://www.6765656b.com it's the ~ for us geek's.
"Microsoft is clearly working hard to make sure that commercial software is worth the money, and is going to give the competitors a run for their money."
Errr... yes, I'm sure it's worth every penny.
no
Hahahhahaa!!!one!1!!eleven!!1!!
My site
My films
Alright, so IE-7 is finally becoming a reality. After FAR too long of a wait for a true update to their browser, MS is updating, and from what can be seen so far, they are mostly listening to demands.
It's cloogy, but jesus christ, it's beta!
Anyway, anyone who's expecting 100-percent gold results, especially at this stage, is a damn fool that needs a wake-up call from reality. Any progress is good progress and late progress is better than no progress at all.
Of course there's always gonna be some anal basher-zombies. The years of stagnation have created quite a froth of copy-cat minions for the spouting of age old anti-MS slanders. As usual, the intelligent among us will have to find our digital "ear-plugs" and work with the facts.
Seems like they're hitting on a lot of useful stuff. Complaining about the time it took is fruitless. Complaining about the UI is the same. First off, it's beta. No one in their right mind expects beta releases to be pretty. Second off, the more talented surfers among us have learned the more efficient way of using shortcut keys to handle the (never within reach) icons. The tabs look fine to me, but whatever. I like the middle-mouse button feature, though a one-click method would be nicer.
Now, there's probably a crapload of dorks out there who are ready to pounce with the "their phishing/virus protection won't stop everything" crap. Honestly, nothing does. And furthermore, it's nice to see MS addressing these security problems rather than ignoring them.
I wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets crammed full of anti-MS bashers who won't even look at or honestly view IE-7. Whatever.
BTW, the technical docs and whitepapers on the MS site offer a lot more details on the ins and outs than the linked reviews.
http://labs.insert-title.com/labs/article795.aspx
I found this article a while back and now have IE5, 5.5 and 6 on my XP test machine.
It can get a bit screwy with conditional comments, as all the browsers respond to the IE6 conditions, but temporarily renaming CSS files is enough to get around that while testing.
But now we have people misusing excel. Someone who has never used a spread sheet before uses excel to store database like information when. Lists of addresses, business contacts. etc...
One inadvertant click of a title bar and all their information is messed.
__
Thou hast besquirted me, O leotarded one.
I totally disagree with the article and find that the IE7 is not some new user-centric design but a recycled IE6 that is desperately trying to be Firefox by generously borrowing a number of its features. IE7 seems to have a long way to go, though, especially with all those bugs. I keep discovering new bugs almost by the minute and some of them are really nasty. However, Vista Beta 1 has so many more bugs that after some time of "using" it I ask myself why I am wasting my time on this crap and boot into Ubuntu again with a big sigh of relief.
"they are using their classic method of producing superior software by catering to the needs of the user."
When I read that, I didn't even bother to read the review.
Nothing but marketing fluff written by a paid Microsoft shill.
What's next? Rob Enderle saying IE7 will destroy Linux and all OSS? Laura DiDio saying it proves open source can't compete?
Take this marketing shill shit down the road.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
What the heck is up with having 7 buttons in such a small area in this screenshot? And what the heck do the bottom-right 3 do?
mbbac
If you've seen other people (that don't normally browse the web) using a web browser, you'd notice that they double click EVERYTHING.
:)
A link to some site: that's a double click. Reload the page: that's a double click. Using the Back button: another double click (with the inevitable single click on the Forward button). And so on...
Having Stop and Refresh share a button would make the page (that just finished being loaded) reload and stop when doubleclicked. Very good design when considering the userbase. Of course, it doesn't make sense to the sane or informed, but those groups are not expected to use IE7 regularly.
I downloaded the new ie7 beta. It requires you to run their validation scheme. Netscape is my default browser, so it was messy. It DOES however allow you to set google as your default value.
it doesn't have to be added by Opera Software in Opera the browser, too. There's a file called "search.ini" in the .opera directory in your $HOME, that's where all those shortcuts are kept.
Adding something like m-w or freshmeat to those is trivial.
From the review:
The stop and refresh buttons are combined into a single button that is logically separate from back and forward. The button is "cancel" while a page is loading, and "refresh" when the page is done loading. There's no need to clutter the screen with more buttons.
About the only feature of MSIE that I prefer over Mozilla/Firefox is the ability to click the stop button even after a page has fully loaded in order to stop those fscking animated GIFs.
Morons!
---------------------------------------------
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can add your own to Opera but you need to edit an ini file. Not convenient and one of the things that bugs me.
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/444957 .aspx
The IE team just responded here
When I saw the screenshots of Internet Explorer 7.0 Beta 1, the interface reminded me a LOT of MySoft Technology's Maxthon "shell" program for current versions of IE for Windows.
Small wonder--I've read that Microsoft engineers are frequent users of Maxthon themselves, and many Maxthon features got "borrowed" for IE 7.0.
It seems suprisingly fast and stable in Vista Beta 1, and I'm talking fast. The switching of tabs are instantaneous at redrawing pages, similar to the speed of the latest Firefox 1.1 trunk builds. No flickers and strangeness found with the tabs you get by the horrible MSN Toolbar. It has also finally support for PNG alpha channels and is on its way at improving its CSS support, with CSS bug fixes in, and word there's improvement still going on in this area.
The phishing filter is beyond what's done by competing browsers, it has a quick "privacy cleaner" like the one found in Firefox 1.1, a by far improved add-on manager to see what add-ons are currently installed, and to easier install new add-ons.
The popup filter supports whitelisting and three levels of blocking.
Overall, I can't complain for a browser still only in its first beta.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
You can set YubNub as the handler for non-URL content in the FF address bar, or just install it using Mycroft. Same result.
Sexier, because Yubnub is programmed in a language that has a name shared with a Donald Faagen song and a precious stone.
catch (HumourFailureException e) { e.user.send("You, sir, are a humourless idiot."); }
(no body, please move along)
Other than that, who really cares what browser anyone is using? Why is Microsoft so gung-ho about perfecting a product that already has so much competition? Isn't the real money in the ads served up by web pages (which is, of course, totally not dependant on a browser).
What am I missing here?
My site
My films
People who harp on Microsoft could better spend their time pumping up OSS. NOBODY but OSS listens to that kind of thing seriously anymore (did they ever?). It's preaching to the choir, which is a complete waste of time.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Many people criticize IE7 for copying from Firefox, but is this not the cycle of mass market software? First Netscape, and then IE copies Netscape and probably does it a little better. People dislike IE and Mozilla->Firefox is born. They essentially copy the same model and add a few nifty ideas. People like those ideas so other future browsers (IE7) implement these ideas. Which would make Microsoft look more stupid to the Slashdot crowd, not implementing proven good features(tabbed browsing) or ignoring the demand? Think about it, either way most of you will hate IE7 and criticize Microsoft for its creation.
It's just like I originally thought - they're copying all the UI stuff from Firefox to try and catch up, without any of the needed rendering fixes... those freaking bastards.
And the UI design is terrible. The placement of the address bar and the refresh button make no sense. And the menu below the tab bar? What's that? I thought IE6 was bad, this looks a lot worse.
Well, if nothing else hopefully the horrible navigation and menu layout will finally convert my girlfriend to Firefox.
As the review on Flexbeta points out, Google search is the default. I'm glad they did this as most(all ?) of the users will be doing this anyway.
Though this might change in the final release, if it doesn't, it'll be an open admission that Google is better, not that they don't acknowledge that now.
I don't see anything there that isn't already in all the other browsers. The placement of the menu bar is rather odd in that it's not under the window title bar, but under the tabs. It kinda looks like a mess to me, IMHO. I'll wait for version 8.
In related news, seeing the menu bar, Microsoft has finally discovered Fitt's Law. Only ten years too late....
see, there's no stop button... I guess thay don't want you trying to stop their beloved browser from downloading a page, given that after SP2, lots of machines had IE crash miserably when hitting the stop button. I guess the easiest solution is just remove the button..
The key to anti-phishing is user education and keeping users informed of new cunning tricks spotted.
This will just make people feel that the technology will protect them and disengage their grey matter.
BTW, the technical docs and whitepapers on the Microsoft site offer a lot more details on the ins and outs than the linked reviews. Nice note in there about the fixes to CSS support, and how IE will finally support PNG transparency.
IE-7 is imperfect, but it's beta, and it's coming from a history of an imperfect browser. There's a lot to fix and not a lot of time to do it.
Anyway, anyone who's expecting 100-percent gold results, especially at this stage, is a damn fool. Sorry, no browser is perfect. Any progress is good progress and late progress is better than no progress at all. (It's also not that bright to base your marketing campaign on comparing your browser to IE6, which everyone knows is OLD AND OUTDATED.
Of course there's always gonna be some anal basher-zombies and their troll supporters who are blind to anything but the fact that this thread has the word "Microsoft" in it and thus use it as a repository for anti-MS propaganda. The years of stagnation have created quite a froth of copy-cat minions.
As usual, the sane among us will have to find our digital "ear-plugs" and work with the facts. If MS is finally going to put in the effort to try and fix their problems, they deserve at least a faithful listen to see what is there.
Seems like they're hitting on a lot of useful stuff. Complaining about the time it took is fruitless. Complaining about the UI is the same. First off, it's beta. No one in their right mind expects beta releases to be pretty. Second off, the more talented surfers among us have learned the more efficient way of using shortcut keys to handle the (never within reach) icons. The tabs look fine to me, but whatever. I like the middle-mouse button feature, though a one-click method would be nicer.
Now, there's probably a crapload of trolls out there who are ready to pounce with the "their phishing/virus protection won't stop everything" crap. Honestly, nothing does. And furthermore, it's nice to see MS addressing these security problems rather than ignoring them.
I wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets crammed full of anti-MS bashers who won't even look at or honestly view IE-7. Whatever.
PS - Read this post quickly for it'll be gone soon. It doesn't bash Microsoft, and that's bad.
I disagree, specifically because constructive criticism usually is given with the intention of improving the product.
How does a listener or reader judge the intent of a speaker or writer, especially when the speaker or writer is likely to have a disability common to computer experts?
Y'know, we might actually think about trying some code before we light the bonfires.
There's an interesting MSDN article that talks about behavior changes to scripting when there's more than one tab open.
I tried it out by writing a quick and dirty script to open several tabs "without intervention." The first opened fine; subsequent requests were blocked.
Maybe...just maybe...they're thinking this one through.
Let's see:-
tabbed browsing. FF.
right click gives new window or new tab. FF.
CSS Acid Test. Oh no, doesn't pass that. Kinda irrelevant then.
Phishing. Yup sounds new. Not in FF.
Navigation/cancel/refresh. Yeah that's different, but horrible.
Search. FF.
Add-on manager that can turn off BHOs. How about, having a browser that means you don't have to put up with unwanted BHOs in the first place. See FF.
Toolbar options. I can more the toolbar how I want in FF. And have a sidebar. And do some skinning of it.
Sounds revolutionary. Oh yeah, and how long until IE7 gets SVG or the really nice Find function that FF has? And has it switched off being able to override the javascript? Or continuing broken downloads?
So it has a handfull of features more than firefox ??
Chris ,
Php Programmers.
Rondeau's story says: The navigation system in IE 7 shows that the web browser's most groundbreaking user interface paradigm is maturing. The drop-downs for the back and forward buttons are now combined into a single dropdown that shows the user placement with regard to pages in the back and in front.
Mozilla (Firefox too?) has had this exact thing (it's under the "Go" menu in Mozilla) for at least a couple of years now.
Agreed, Opera IS the best browser...
n speed [howtocreate.co.uk]
:)
Here are some proofs via tests & featuresets, etc./et all!
Opera: It's THE "good stuff"!
IMO, but also solely based on facts, for a triumvirate of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:
----
1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!
E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#wi
SUMMARY:
"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.
On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.
On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"
(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT!)
----
2.) Opera is definitely the "least attacked/most secure" of the "big 3" browers'-wise (IE, FireFox/Mozilla/Opera) out there...
----
3.) It is MASSSIVELY "multi-platform" & afaik? NOT just restricted to PC's either - there is a large body of handhelds out there which use Opera as their browser tool such as the Symbian 60 series handphone & most all OS' (including FreeBSD, Linux, etc. & more + Windows).
*
So, unless somebody can show us otherwise here, I will stick by those statements!
(They ARE why I like Opera better than the others in the "big 3" of web-browsers & I am mostly a "Pro-Win32" guy & admit it... though I like & finally respect Linux 2.6x core with KDE on the desktop, & really do respect what MacOS X has become as well!)
APK
P.S.=> The ONLY thing FireFox has (and don't get me wrong, I like FireFox, & FAR better than IE 6.x) over Opera?
Is that FireFox is FREEBIE-WARE!
However, some of its freeware model unfortunately (as evidenced by the recent XUL 3rd party addons like GreaseMonkey having to be fixed for security holes) may jeopardize it as did ActiveX DLL extensions to IE!
(E.G.-> ActiveX DLL extensions to IE were initially meant to be for "the good", but one bad apple(s) were all it took to make this featureset for IE a detriment rather than an asset)...
BOTTOM-LINE - Compared head-to-head/mano-a-mano, you see the results above as proofs, Opera's just the best! apk
I used to have:
1. Profit!
2. Release product
3. Develop product
4. Design product
5. ???
6. Make product actually work
7. Make product obsolete
But I think I'll revise it to:
1. Profit! (?)
2. Release product beta so Slashdot can critique it free
2.5 Ignore the critiques, release it with "enhanced security features"
3. Develop product
4. Design product
5. ???
6. Make product actually work
7. Make product obsolete
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
It looks rather like a browser I knocked up in TCL/TK in a week... hey ho :)
Microsoft doesn't seem to play catch-up too well anymore
Right, and I'll take this opportunity to say once again that Ballmer is the wrong person for the CEO job.
Recently Ballmer was the featured speaker during a Wall Street analyst day. This is unusual; normally the CFO has this role. Ballmer dealt the usual hand, "We have great potential! The future is ours!", etc. Why was he the speaker instead of the CFO? Common sense and small tin foil hat tell me the institutional investors are getting restless, so he now has to sell himself to Wall Street.
Microsoft can continue for quite a while on the basis of market momentum, but I'm guessing the pressure on the board to find a new CEO is increasing. Stories on /. about Microsoft tech (good or bad) are a subtheme to the larger matter of the suitability of the person in the CEO spot.
Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
After the upgrades for FireFox (after v1.0), the exec starting loading freakishly slow. FREAKISHLY. I am talking fresh install with no extensions. Microsoft gets ONE POINT from me for loading it's first window almost instantaneously.
I think with a bit more configuration ability, I might think about switching back.
Needed:
1)ability to move the file,edit etc. menu to top
2)more than two tab browsing preferences
3)separate refresh and stop buttons that are movable
... when it was called Opera.
Dorks.
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
But the moment mediocre webmasters get into IE7 and start coding stuff that only works under IE7, then we'll see people justifying their jump to XP-SP2 and newer.
Unfortunately, the only way I see Mozilla/Firefox win this war is by getting a so much large user base that mediocre webmasters will be forced to think twice before doing things that only work with IE. And the only way to achieve that is by:
1.- Putting more impressive features into Mozilla/firefox
2.- Linux/MacOS/BSD OSes get, altogether, at least a 30 to 35% share of all users running personal computers.
Where IE7 uses a check-mark, Mozilla uses a black dot. The concept is identical.
There is much truth to your statement:
The key members of the organization are 3 universities which manage operations of the W3C (MIT CSAIL (USA), ERCIM (France), and Keio Univ. (Japan)). That being said, members of the organization are also businesses (like Microsoft, IBM, and Intel)
From looking at the site, it appears most of the actual implementation is done by graduate students or PHD researchers - which might explain some of the choices made.
Nevertheless the mission of the W3C is: "To lead the World Wide Web to its full potential by developing protocols and guidelines that ensure long-term growth for the Web." It says nothing about implementing said protocols or guidelines - so anything we get from them that works is a plus imho. Additionally, the Amaya browser/xml editor has some very neat capabilities (annotating existing webpages - without altering the actual website of the originating document, mathematical formulas and vector graphics) that certainly make it a very good technology testbed. Finally all of the code they generate is GPL and OSI license equivalent. Given that and the fact that their Director is Tim Berners-Lee - I can cut them some slack.
Given its mission, I would go here first if I intended to implement those standards. Apparently Mozilla, IE, and other browsers do not think its important to do a complete implementation this go-round. Some of that might be ameliorated with plugins...if you really need some specific display functionality not covered by your favorite browser (that presumes you could implement a plugin yourself - or have friends who can do it for you).
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Sure, it's a minor issue, and sure, Bodero has already claimed bias by opening with this phrase:
"I'm usually a fan of what Microsoft creates..."
But, since Bodero used the verb "creates" in association with Microsoft, he has proven that his opinions about MS cannot be trusted. At the very least, he's a minor troll, and doesn't deserve, as of this writing, a +4 insightful.
We're all quite aware, even the MS apologists, that MS doesn't create, they only copy and copy well enough for most people.
Okay, I'll give it to you on MS Bob. But if that is what Bodero is a fan of, doesn't that just further my point?
Everybody switch to Mac Os 9! IE 5.1.7 still works!
Whoooaaa... Take two steps back there cowboy.
Slipstreaming and OPK have a place in a company with very many PC's. But getting your GF's laptop going is not one of them.
The parent post is quite clear, He turns on his GF's new laptop.
I know of what he's talking about because I have the same experience at the small company I work for. Even after buying a computer with SP2 installed, there's a truckload of MS updates requiring reboots. Followed by more Symantec updates requiring reboots.
Before firing off a quick dismissal, please remember there's a whole world of users outside your immediate circle that can and likely do have very different experiences than yours.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
After reading tons of discussion about IE7 and FireFox here I'd like to propose a poll. This poll is specifically for FireFox users, but anyone is welcome to join.
;-)
Does IE7 suck because:
1) It looks JUST LIKE FireFox (they stole everything)!
2) It just LOOKS HORRIBLE!
3) I haven't used it or even bothered looking a screenshots yet, but all the above!
There just seems to be two distinct groups of FireFox fans here with one thinking it just looks HORRIBLE so they hate it and the other hates it because it LOOKS JUST LIKE FIREFOX. I'm getting confused, please respond and let me know which one is true please
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
I would think about going back to IE if only they added Find As You Type. That feature is indispensable in my opinion.
"...Microsoft... producing superior software by catering to the needs of the user. This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
/. posts have to require the most pretentious ass-wipe of a 3 liner in order to make it in? Why couldn't the person have just said something like "Microsoft's IE7 is going to be a large improvement from their IE6 version with Tabbed Browsing, Phishing Protection, an Addons Manager, and more"
UGH do
YES, it is IE 6 with a few new features. MS has added "Tabbed Browsing" something that every other major browser (safari, firefox, opera, etc) has had for quite a while now.
In addition the "Search" box is something many other browsers have had as well, only instead of defaulting to MS's site they automagically use Google or allow you to set your own.
New Icons are NOT "a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design." They are just new icons you smug bastard.
The "phishing" protection - please that's a neat little trinket, but it's not "Superior Software" by any means. MS has a list of sites they feel collect information from users who visit them and warns you not too. I doubt MS will provide anyone outside of washington with the specifics as too what qualifies a site to be added on this list.
The manage add-ons is kinda neat, but unnecesary imo.
All in all I think IE7 will be great, not that I really care though since I use Safari 99% of my day.
Ave Molech Setting
Maybe, but unfortunately Microsoft lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.
Vista Cruiser
DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
I was posting about Mozilla, not Firefox. By "(Firefox too?)" I meant that Firefox might work the same way, or it might not - I don't (didn't) know for sure. If you say it doesn't work that way, I believe you.
Since you were responding to a post about Mozilla, and since you didn't say specifically which browser you are using, I think a reader could be forgiven for thinking (as I did) that you were also talking about Mozilla, in which case the information you posted was not correct.
The ZDNet article, Internet Explorer 7 Beta: a first look, opens with " It's been almost four years since Microsoft refreshed its venerable Internet Explorer browser." Perhaps a review of the word venerable is in order:
venerable
adj.
IE has inadequate CSS compliance and a history of insecurity. If you've ever tried to program IE to do client-side XML handling, you'd know they coughed up a hairy fur ball on that as well. It has neither virture nor dignity. It is definately not worthy of reverence.
Microsoft always manages to turn the beautiful art of programming into the management of train wrecks.
However, happy to see the review was negative.Stop whining you asshat, are you too retarded to find such a simple thing? You booger.
It's simple really. A fast browser with the tweaks we have been asking for... you know, the 85% of the world using IE (of which not all are computer dummies, we just don't bother with OSS because of the kinks and issues and compatibility problems). The CSS 'acid test' btw is currently passed in house with their latest build and it is fully W3C compliant in house... this is the public beta, not the latest build (looking at the code dates it's a few months old).
The 'review' may be a joke, but IE7 is far from it. All of the alternative browsers may have a feature here or there that is better or more desirable than those in IE7, but on the whole and considering that IE7 ships with the OS on 95% of all PCs sold around the world to home users and most offices... well, I think we will see the share jump back up to well over 90%.
Just because you are an elitist tech geek doesn't make your opinion right, remember that. And IE7, while not 'perfect' (what piece of software is), is good enough to get back lost share or at least maintain a more than healthy lead in things... and for good reason.
... Safari has it all.
The parent post is quite clear, He turns on his GF's new laptop.
...and as he said quite clearly, he was slamming rubbish system builders that *should* know how to build a PC image that installs correctly.
As he said in the article (and it still staggers me how often this attitude prevails in the *nix world) just because Windows has a nice GUI and installs without needing to breakout a console and hack X into life, it doesn't mean that it's simple to administer.
Delivering a quality OEM Windows image is a skilled task. Delivering a half-baked one that "just works" is much easier, and much more common, even amongst the major manufacturers. Even externally contracted specialists brought in to major corporates to build and support these images for bulk deployment get it wrong more often than they get it right...
An up to date Windows image should only require one or maybe two reboots to install the auto updates and typically will only require a single reboot during the initial startup phase. Anything more and they're making a mess of it - and probably contravening Microsoft's strict OEM requirements which exist to make sure that the end user gets a decent experience and not "10 reboots"!
And don't get me started on third party apps! Microsoft have made many changes that should make it possible for the majority of applications (and drivers) to be installed without rebooting. Unfortunately, many don't use these new features and continue to require multiple reboots (*and* write to \Program Files. Bah!)
Ends rant.I've tried tabbed filemanagers in Directory Opus 8. Not so good in their implementation - actually horrible.
Now, if they made it work like the Tabs in Opera, I'd be in love!
Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
You insensitive clod!
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
Just upgraded the microwave last week. Took a bit of fiddling, but I finally got Gentoo running on it.
I always delete the "Launch Internet Explorer Browser" button from the quicklaunch on the taskbar and use the address bar instead. (The address bar allows me to type in a URL directly on my desktop.) The upgrade really shouldn't put a shortcut in the quicklaunch if the user removed it. I recommend drawing the user's attention to the address bar. I wish his site had a comments section. He talks about how in our day and age where everything should be compatible with everything else, then sites that post content should have places to put comments (duh). Anyways... In response to his "take the ie icon out of the quicklaunch and replace it with the address bar". Not everyone likes to have a clutter taskbar/desktop. Putting in the address back in the task bar is a waste of time. The quicklaunch icon will be deleted for a firefox browser icon, but its not a worldwide/browser/task bar mod that should go into place. Heck, with this new addition of windows vista.. i'm even more tempted to get a mac mini now. (its payday so i can afford it). Thats is all.
Apparently, 4 out of 5 don't care - and that's not a statistical breakdown, that's the entire result set.
Yeah, that's right - there is no reason, so your data is invalid. Non-technical people are the ones who get the glassy look in their eyes when you even start talking about the yew-are-ell or "high top-lizard lips-dub-dub-dub-dot-com" things.
"Oh, but someone will mail a short link to a non-technical person."
Sorry, but I'm going to have to play the BS card on you. Non technical people -- remember them?! -- are the ones that go to google (because lil' 9-year-old Jimmy told them this is how you search the internets) and type 'http://www.amazon.com' in the search box. If they're really computer savvy, the best they can do is type in a common name ('FrischsBigBoy'), slap a '.com' on the end of it and hope it is site.
Sorry, man. Try again.
Yeah, right.
... they are using their classic method of producing superior software ...
I don't understand - is that to produce bloated bug-laden software which crashes frequently until their customers debug it for them and they then can charge everyone big bucks for the "upgrade" or did I miss something.
This update is wonderful news for current IE users (all two of you reading /.), but it's horrible for everyone else, most notably web designers. I was desperately hoping that IE would start properly displaying all attributes, and perhaps even much of CSS2. Right now, even attributes like "height" are displayed incorrectly: For example, IE thinks that "height" is actually "min-height." Because IE7 still screws up with CSS, people will continue to think that its rendering of CSS is the correct one, and websites will continue to screw up (i.e. display correctly) in other browsers. This means that we will still have to hinder our creativity by using the few attributes that work correctly in IE.
...but have fun with the tabs, dear IE users :\.
CSS could revolutionize the web, if only Microsoft would allow it...
"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." -Archimedes
I would like to point out that IE7, like IE6 sucks. I was actually expecting something novel. I don't like the address bar and tabs being fixated. I can go down a list of stuff they screwed up, or just plain never fixed from old versions, but I won't. This post will be too long. All Microsoft is trying to do is get people back who have switched to other browsers by adding tabs, and try to impress everyone by adding this anti-phishing mechanism, which 99% of the people using IE don't understand anyway. This, of course, is the reason why they're impressed. I give IE7 two thumbs down. I am actaully rather disappointed. The next thing (which is still downloading) is Vista. I sure hope this will give me some glimmer of hope.
Maybe Opera or Mozilla or whatever intented it could patent tabs, so to make Microsoft eat its own dog food.
I disable all animated gifs - browsing is soooo must more peaceful now!
r /
I use the extension:
http://chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdevelope
There might be other solutions, but that extension is just awesome if you do any web development.
Happy moony
a dweeb and his browser posting a review of msie 7 with new features that got to be going on 4 or more years old already
is this msn.com?
Exactly, just like all those car manufacturers claim their innovative. Henry Ford deserves all the credit and never seems to get it.
Or how about Apple, Sun, HP, etc. They claim to be innovative however they are just copies of the computer IBM invented. IBM is thus the only computer company that can claim to be innovative(I know that's a little sketchy what with the abacus leading the way and all).
And don't get me started with Doctors. In-vitro fertilization an innovation? Bah! God did it first.
When will the true innovators be the only ones who can claim credit...
I installed the beta and rebooted like it asked. I fired up Trillian and it crashed in wininet.dll. I was able to use it just fine until I dismissed the error dialog, at which point it quit. I immediately uninstalled IE7, going back to IE6, and rebooted again. But wait, that's not all the rebooting I had to do to wipe it out. When I got back into my desktop, OE was crashing in msoe.dll. Another reboot to try the System Restore wizard to the install checkpoint for IE7. That didn't help. I tried running an OE installer, but it said I already had a later version installed. Whatever. I tried System File Checker, but that didn't see the CD sitting in my drive. Turns out the damn thing only looks at the location specified in the registry and won't ask you for another location if it can't find the files. It was looking at D: (which, at the time, WAS my CD drive), which is a FAT32 partition that I use for transferring data safely between Windows and Linux. I renamed my CD drive to R: as soon as I got the computer. After googling a bit, I found where in the registry I had to change the path. I finally got my computer back to a somewhat stable state. I say somewhat as I've had at least 2 different BSODs since I went through all this. I normally only get a BSOD once a month, if that often. To make a long story short: Don't bother with the beta if you want to use your computer for anything productive.
As a Mac user I have been stuck with version 5.2.3 of Explorer for so long I cannot remember. Microsoft will not update IE for mac as most of you probably know, because they believe that Safari has taken all the Mac users...
In reality, as a web developer using Dreamweaver, not having an updated version of IE is a real pain. I have to use my neighbors pc to view changes and cannot do so on my desktop, I have to upload to web first...I find that I am doing this less and less. If my web complient pages don't look good on their browers I have just grown not to care.
I am surprised Microsoft hasn't kept up IE for macs, It's the one program they produce that many mac users once actually liked. And here's another major update. And because mac users don't get all the virus' we could care less if the program has holes in it big enough to drive battleships through as they just don't effect us.
I subscribe to Mactopia and send them a letter every time they send me an issue asking for an update. I know it's no use, but not updating a major web product for a large portion of the creative community is both a disservice to the web, but also a disgrace.
Does anyone know if there is a IE for mac group around. I would like to join.
"Where did this apple come from?"
--Alan Turing
Getting a virtual PC for my mac is not an option as I have no desire to block popups constantly, and feel vulnerable to virus' etc. I also miss the google bar, which is only available for IE, as it gives page rank and other great info. Just a bit tired of being left behind on some things... aa
"Where did this apple come from?"
--Alan Turing
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9552/howieshouldl ook3gc.png?
Much better ^.^
You: The CSS 'acid test' btw is currently passed in house with their latest build and it is fully W3C compliant in house...
IE developers: In that vein, I've seen a lot of comments asking if we will pass the Acid2 browser test published by the Web Standards Project when IE7 ships. I'll go ahead and relieve the suspense by saying we will not pass this test when IE7 ships. [...] We've dug through the Acid 2 Test and analyzed IE's problems with the test in some great detail, and we've made sure the bugs and features are on our list - however, there are some fairly large and difficult features to implement, and they will not all sort to the top of the stack in IE7.