The only problem I ever found was when launching Xine from a Konqueror window (ie, double-clicking on a video file) caused Konqueror to be elevated to "highest" stacking setting. Annoying, but not exactly earth-shattering. And fixed 2 or 3 releases ago.
I just wish Debian Unstable would damn-well update, they still have 16.5 (I think; it's something old anyway).
I kinda like KDE's desktop manager (kdesktop, i'm fairly sure), and it's a definate second choice, but everything about E is just... I dunno. Right. Besides, 3 desktops with 12 virtual desks each r0x0rs my s0x0rs.
As a side note, does anyone remember the 16.5-zoopee patch? The one that gave better control over the iconbox, enabled a few other settings, and so on? Anyways, I emailed the author a while ago, but he had no plans to update it for.6 or.7... I'm not enough of a C/C++ coder to do this myself (had a few attempts and ended up fucking things royally); could anyone interested in giving me a hand fixing this up drop me a line?
I run Enlightenment on my p4-2.2 laptop, my athlon 2400+ at home, and my dual athlon 2400+ at work. I lurve it.
That said, I have the KDE kicker bar running down the side, and all my "most used" apps in the actual enlightenment menu. Means I have fast, uncluttered menus, but still have access to everything on the system thru kicker. And I have a taskbar. We likes taskbars.
E15 was the first window manager I used, and although I've tried a lot of others, I just prefer E to this day, and is still perfectly integrated with Gnome/KDE apps. Plus, the Fossils Of The Machines theme kicks ass =)
I'm not gonna include quotes to keep this short enough to read =)
*NIX: I said this to include the free unices and unix-like OS's. *BSD springs to mind (cue flame war =). Hell, includ MINIX in that if you want; I just get hella sick of people acting like Linux is the only unix-based OS out there. Besides which, doens't AIX only run on IBM-specific hardware, so it's compiled for it anyway? (i could be wrong on that).
NTAdmins: Not incompetent in the least, and a lot are very talented. Just rushed off their feet trying to patch all their servers up, while the *nix admins type 3 commands and they're done.
Yup, 4Gb. I have _no_ idea how they do it (and I wish I did!), but try it some time - just copy/paste everything on an XP CD to a directory, it comes to far more than 700mb. and you get less than 4Gb on a full install because you're not installing everything on there, are you? drivers, help files, etc etc I mean... and 5.7Gb sounds about right - look at how much you're getting in that space though, compared to a stock (1.4Gb) XP install.
i'm sure i could cut it down to 30Mb or so, but i keep a lot of extranious stuff there =)
I've never used 2k3, i have no idea about it. perhaps a better memory model? and no, i only use the xp comp for games, so everything un-needed is turned off. And it's still a pig on RAM. 32MB on 2k is impressive though, when I ran that OS it usually sat around 80%-90% of the available. Unless you're talking about 2 PC's with 128 and 32 RAM, respectively =D
I read somewhere further down there's a way to start windows in a CLI-only mode, but I'd love to see you configure IIS without a nice, pretty system-hogging GUI =) (hell, i don't think you can even change the registry values without a GUI...).... plus I think you quoted the guy I was quoting there - was arguing that windows doesn't have a decent CLI, and you can't use one to any level of effectiveness without the GUI.
my flatmate uses blackbox on XP, it looks sweet - but I (like everyone else here, i believe) is talking about options out the box. Sure, we can get gcc, cygwin, litestep, python etc etc ad nauseum for windows off the net - but sod it, with Linux I have everything i could ever need _right here on cd, with the OS_. That's the advantage of it.
I thought NT(4|5).x only supported up to 2CPUs, and this wasn't actually enabled unless you bought the "enterprise" version - again, I could be wrong on this, so I won't be arguing it too much =). As far as licensing goes - how many thousand for a 4-CPU windows license? how many for a 4-CPU linux license?
Linux will cost you dearly just like Windows, but with Linux you get the choice of payment - money or time.
In my experience (and I work for an ISP, so it's not merely a home network), a UNIX needs to be set up once, and have updates or a new kernel compiled every now and then (ie, few months). Windows need constant attention. Most of our *NIX admins sit round reading/. all day, while the NT ones are working constantly. =)
Linux: fast, Windows: bloated
Not true. Fedora for example, requires the use of three CDs in order to install a "minimal" 800 MB system. Windows requires one CD, and installs far less dulicated functionality.
I call bullshit. It may be over 3 CDs, but that's irrelevant - the footprint on the drive is 800Mb, a default XP is 1.4Gb. And if you're installing 800Mb, that's far from "minimal" (my home router has a full-but-stripped-down OS in 150Mb).
ps. try a straight copy/paste of an XP cd one day, it's like 4Gb.
Linux: small memory footprint, WIndwos: 256K min
Again, you need look no further than Red Hat or Fedora to see just how much more of a resource hog Linux can be than is a default Windows XP installation.
Again, horse hockey. System hog != memory hog for a start, but to make my point XP uses 256Mb of my RAM just after a boot, Linux on the same machine uses 70. And that's with GUI, yes =)
Linux: cli and GUI, Windows: GUI only
Windows comes with a CLI, and you have several options available as additions to what's supplied out of the box.
Er... I believe the point is that you can turn off the damn GUI in Linux if you don't want/need it, and save valuable resources. Show me a Windows system that's pure command line.
And how many window managers/desktop environments do you get in each? windows: 1. *nix: a few hundred last time i looked =)
As an aside, under XP and ME you don't actually have a DOS subsystem, so it's not a true shell.
Linux: scalable, Windows: scalable only with Server versions ($$$)
Okay, that's two points for you, unless you're refering to the so called "Enterprise" Linux versions. Those vendors remove functionality from their non-enterprise OS kernels (like simple SMP support) and charge you dearly for the "freedom" of running an open source operating system.
*Yawn*
I dunno about you, but the last time I looked it was a simple compile to put in all of this "missing functionality". The Enterprise kernels, IMHO, are simply for convienience. Example: how much for a windows server that can handle 4 CPUs and 4Gb of RAM?
Now, how much for a *NIX that can handle the same? And yes, I'm talking time and initial cost here...
You may argue "but then you need to compile things!! That's bad!!", but if you're installing an enterprise-level server you should be compiling everything you fricken' can on it anyway, especially the kernel. Which is another advantage of *NIX that we missed - software compiled for the specific hardware on which it runs.
Truth to tell, that's one of the worst (as in incompetent) trolls I've ever seen....
Although my normal rants about windows are DRM, security, lack of standards support, etc, I'll abstain from that today, as last night I got the shock of my life. I run XP dual booting at home, completely and utterly for games only. I (very stupidly) fired up IE at one point, and went to a game crack site to get a nocd patch, thinking "I'm fully patched up in Windows Update, javascript off, and I'm not a moron. I should be ok to get _one_ file down". Besides, I'm a savvy user, I don't click on "do you want to install this uber-1337 thing that will wash your car for you?" whenever asked. So I should be safe(ish), right?
Hell no.
I now have a toolbar in IE that I can't get rid of, a homepage that keeps resetting to xxxpygmys.com or something (and can't change even after some registry hacking), traffic going through the roof from trackers, and half the sites (including Google) I frequent don't display properly. I ran adaware on it, and from that one page visit, it found a total of 53 items. Fifty-fucken-three. And I suspect it didn't get them all.
I didn't click anything. I didn't install anything. I didn't agree or consent to this software. All of this stuff was placed on my machine and executed without my knowledge or permission. Some of you may say I deserve this for visiting a dodgy site (although in my case it was legit, I'd lost the CD and wanted to play dammit =), but since I'm so used to Linux or BSD in nearly everything I do, and am used to this stuff not affecting me, and having this sort of thing happen really hits home as inexcusable behaviour.
Should I have turned active-X off (my bad, I forgot to since I never use it)? Should I have used a better browser? should I have locked the machine down so it couldn't break like this? Should I have used a better OS? Yes to all the above. But the point is I shouldn't have to just because the browser is coded so badly it resembles a seive. Call my naive, but I hold the view that functionality and security can live hand in hand quiet well, and neither should have to be sacrificed for the other. Note, I said functionality, not convienience.
As you can tell, I'm still pissed off this morning =)
Although I've only ever gotten that SSH key change warning if I've just reinstalled a box, if I got that on a machine I administrate I'd go running as fast as I could to the NOC and kick the Network admin up the ass =)
Seriously, anyone that ignores that warning (provided it's not expected) deserves everything they get. Screw the boss, imagine the crap you'd get in if your login (and/or root) got phished like that...
Actually, I agree with him. XP is a *reasonably* stable OS in my experience - it's a pity about all the security holes, lack of compatibility (just try playing an older game on it like Legacy Of Kain - Blood Omen if you don't believe me), DRM stuff on the way, and vendor lock-in.
The bad, as usual with MS, outweighs the good. But it's not _all_ bad.
Actually, I kind of like the idea of K's and G's in the naming scheme. Very very easy way of knowing which suite/desktop/whatever the apps are designed for/part of. Also adds an element of individuality to the two projects and their associated or contributed software.
And let's not forget, Enlightenment does the same thing with "E"s. Evas, Epplets, Eterm, ESD, and so on. I just wish it had a suite more akin to KDE or Gnome for me to futz with...
This guy didn't happen to have dinner with the ex-Iraqi Information Minister recently did he? Certainly seems to be the same approach...
"The evil penguins are _not_ in the kernel. We will crush the infidels with our mighty litigation machine. Our code has never, and will never crash. It is secu..*BRZZZT* *** STOP: 0x0000000A (0x00000000,0x0000001A,0x00000000,0xFC873D6C) IRQ L_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL*** Address fc873d6c has base at fc870000 - i8042prt.SYS.....
I remember hearing about something like this being developed at the Uni. of Otago here in NZ in the late '90s.... a rotating screen, on to which was projected a little running stick figure from multiple angles. Upshot was you could view it from any angle, perspectively corrent....
Wonder if this is based on that (seems like the same idea)?
You're perfectly right. Any techie worth his paycheck already knows what's going on with linux. It's the tech-illiterate, scared-of-deleting-the-internet end users, salespeople and (most importantly) managers that need to be swayed.
Where tech-talk fails, a cuddly stuffed penguin presented by this girl might just do the drink.
Well, considering this is an industry dominated by males (why, I'm not sure, I know some real g33k chicks, but very few), this is a good marketing approach AFAIC.
All the non-tech guys out there see (keep in mind, this is in marketing-thought) that this whole linux thing isn't just some bunch of hairy, sweaty guys sitting around drinking mountain dew and grepping their lives away. Look, girls can use this too! And they _like_ it! If you use this OS, girls will like you too! Casually drop "sed" and "awk" in a conversation, and you're good as LAID! What a deal!
Sexist sounding, yes, but it's the origin of every marketing campaign (think Coke) for the last 30-odd years. Sex sells.
the fact that SCO have nothing to say. After month and months of painting themselves fluro orange, attaching a halogen lamp to their foreheads and screaming at the top of their lungs in order to get everyone's attention, the last few things that have come out they've remained tight-lipped over.
I'd like to think they're either running out of things to say, or they've realised how much damage they were doing by spouting so much drivel.
But part of me just can't shake the feeling that something's up...
Slashdot Mirror
"yes. Now stop sharing music, or I shall taunt you a second time...."
The only problem I ever found was when launching Xine from a Konqueror window (ie, double-clicking on a video file) caused Konqueror to be elevated to "highest" stacking setting. Annoying, but not exactly earth-shattering. And fixed 2 or 3 releases ago.
.6 or .7... I'm not enough of a C/C++ coder to do this myself (had a few attempts and ended up fucking things royally); could anyone interested in giving me a hand fixing this up drop me a line?
I just wish Debian Unstable would damn-well update, they still have 16.5 (I think; it's something old anyway).
I kinda like KDE's desktop manager (kdesktop, i'm fairly sure), and it's a definate second choice, but everything about E is just... I dunno. Right. Besides, 3 desktops with 12 virtual desks each r0x0rs my s0x0rs.
As a side note, does anyone remember the 16.5-zoopee patch? The one that gave better control over the iconbox, enabled a few other settings, and so on? Anyways, I emailed the author a while ago, but he had no plans to update it for
I run Enlightenment on my p4-2.2 laptop, my athlon 2400+ at home, and my dual athlon 2400+ at work. I lurve it.
That said, I have the KDE kicker bar running down the side, and all my "most used" apps in the actual enlightenment menu. Means I have fast, uncluttered menus, but still have access to everything on the system thru kicker. And I have a taskbar. We likes taskbars.
E15 was the first window manager I used, and although I've tried a lot of others, I just prefer E to this day, and is still perfectly integrated with Gnome/KDE apps. Plus, the Fossils Of The Machines theme kicks ass =)
But for some reason, I hate epplets... *shrug*.
Nerdiest. Comment. Ever.
I'm not gonna include quotes to keep this short enough to read =)
*NIX: I said this to include the free unices and unix-like OS's. *BSD springs to mind (cue flame war =). Hell, includ MINIX in that if you want; I just get hella sick of people acting like Linux is the only unix-based OS out there. Besides which, doens't AIX only run on IBM-specific hardware, so it's compiled for it anyway? (i could be wrong on that).
NTAdmins: Not incompetent in the least, and a lot are very talented. Just rushed off their feet trying to patch all their servers up, while the *nix admins type 3 commands and they're done.
Yup, 4Gb. I have _no_ idea how they do it (and I wish I did!), but try it some time - just copy/paste everything on an XP CD to a directory, it comes to far more than 700mb. and you get less than 4Gb on a full install because you're not installing everything on there, are you? drivers, help files, etc etc I mean... and 5.7Gb sounds about right - look at how much you're getting in that space though, compared to a stock (1.4Gb) XP install.
i'm sure i could cut it down to 30Mb or so, but i keep a lot of extranious stuff there =)
I've never used 2k3, i have no idea about it. perhaps a better memory model? and no, i only use the xp comp for games, so everything un-needed is turned off. And it's still a pig on RAM. 32MB on 2k is impressive though, when I ran that OS it usually sat around 80%-90% of the available.
Unless you're talking about 2 PC's with 128 and 32 RAM, respectively =D
I read somewhere further down there's a way to start windows in a CLI-only mode, but I'd love to see you configure IIS without a nice, pretty system-hogging GUI =) (hell, i don't think you can even change the registry values without a GUI...).... plus I think you quoted the guy I was quoting there - was arguing that windows doesn't have a decent CLI, and you can't use one to any level of effectiveness without the GUI.
my flatmate uses blackbox on XP, it looks sweet - but I (like everyone else here, i believe) is talking about options out the box. Sure, we can get gcc, cygwin, litestep, python etc etc ad nauseum for windows off the net - but sod it, with Linux I have everything i could ever need _right here on cd, with the OS_. That's the advantage of it.
I thought NT(4|5).x only supported up to 2CPUs, and this wasn't actually enabled unless you bought the "enterprise" version - again, I could be wrong on this, so I won't be arguing it too much =). As far as licensing goes - how many thousand for a 4-CPU windows license? how many for a 4-CPU linux license?
This ended up being longer than I intended =D
Time to feed the trolls....
Linux will cost you dearly just like Windows, but with Linux you get the choice of payment - money or time.
In my experience (and I work for an ISP, so it's not merely a home network), a UNIX needs to be set up once, and have updates or a new kernel compiled every now and then (ie, few months). Windows need constant attention. Most of our *NIX admins sit round reading /. all day, while the NT ones are working constantly. =)
Linux: fast, Windows: bloated
Not true. Fedora for example, requires the use of three CDs in order to install a "minimal" 800 MB system. Windows requires one CD, and installs far less dulicated functionality.
I call bullshit. It may be over 3 CDs, but that's irrelevant - the footprint on the drive is 800Mb, a default XP is 1.4Gb. And if you're installing 800Mb, that's far from "minimal" (my home router has a full-but-stripped-down OS in 150Mb).
ps. try a straight copy/paste of an XP cd one day, it's like 4Gb.
Linux: small memory footprint, WIndwos: 256K min
Again, you need look no further than Red Hat or Fedora to see just how much more of a resource hog Linux can be than is a default Windows XP installation.
Again, horse hockey. System hog != memory hog for a start, but to make my point XP uses 256Mb of my RAM just after a boot, Linux on the same machine uses 70. And that's with GUI, yes =)
Linux: cli and GUI, Windows: GUI only
Windows comes with a CLI, and you have several options available as additions to what's supplied out of the box.
Er... I believe the point is that you can turn off the damn GUI in Linux if you don't want/need it, and save valuable resources. Show me a Windows system that's pure command line.
And how many window managers/desktop environments do you get in each? windows: 1. *nix: a few hundred last time i looked =)
As an aside, under XP and ME you don't actually have a DOS subsystem, so it's not a true shell.
Linux: scalable, Windows: scalable only with Server versions ($$$)
Okay, that's two points for you, unless you're refering to the so called "Enterprise" Linux versions. Those vendors remove functionality from their non-enterprise OS kernels (like simple SMP support) and charge you dearly for the "freedom" of running an open source operating system.
*Yawn*
I dunno about you, but the last time I looked it was a simple compile to put in all of this "missing functionality". The Enterprise kernels, IMHO, are simply for convienience. Example: how much for a windows server that can handle 4 CPUs and 4Gb of RAM?
Now, how much for a *NIX that can handle the same? And yes, I'm talking time and initial cost here...
You may argue "but then you need to compile things!! That's bad!!", but if you're installing an enterprise-level server you should be compiling everything you fricken' can on it anyway, especially the kernel. Which is another advantage of *NIX that we missed - software compiled for the specific hardware on which it runs.
Truth to tell, that's one of the worst (as in incompetent) trolls I've ever seen....
"Why didn't someone think of this sooner?"
Because some of us like keeping our nads toasty warm =)
Although my normal rants about windows are DRM, security, lack of standards support, etc, I'll abstain from that today, as last night I got the shock of my life. I run XP dual booting at home, completely and utterly for games only. I (very stupidly) fired up IE at one point, and went to a game crack site to get a nocd patch, thinking "I'm fully patched up in Windows Update, javascript off, and I'm not a moron. I should be ok to get _one_ file down". Besides, I'm a savvy user, I don't click on "do you want to install this uber-1337 thing that will wash your car for you?" whenever asked. So I should be safe(ish), right?
Hell no.
I now have a toolbar in IE that I can't get rid of, a homepage that keeps resetting to xxxpygmys.com or something (and can't change even after some registry hacking), traffic going through the roof from trackers, and half the sites (including Google) I frequent don't display properly. I ran adaware on it, and from that one page visit, it found a total of 53 items. Fifty-fucken-three. And I suspect it didn't get them all.
I didn't click anything. I didn't install anything. I didn't agree or consent to this software. All of this stuff was placed on my machine and executed without my knowledge or permission. Some of you may say I deserve this for visiting a dodgy site (although in my case it was legit, I'd lost the CD and wanted to play dammit =), but since I'm so used to Linux or BSD in nearly everything I do, and am used to this stuff not affecting me, and having this sort of thing happen really hits home as inexcusable behaviour.
Should I have turned active-X off (my bad, I forgot to since I never use it)? Should I have used a better browser? should I have locked the machine down so it couldn't break like this? Should I have used a better OS? Yes to all the above. But the point is I shouldn't have to just because the browser is coded so badly it resembles a seive. Call my naive, but I hold the view that functionality and security can live hand in hand quiet well, and neither should have to be sacrificed for the other. Note, I said functionality, not convienience.
As you can tell, I'm still pissed off this morning =)
Amen, brother. Amen.
Aterm? Enlightenment?!
I thought I was the only one!! =)
Although I've only ever gotten that SSH key change warning if I've just reinstalled a box, if I got that on a machine I administrate I'd go running as fast as I could to the NOC and kick the Network admin up the ass =)
Seriously, anyone that ignores that warning (provided it's not expected) deserves everything they get. Screw the boss, imagine the crap you'd get in if your login (and/or root) got phished like that...
This guy's got the right idea. I use both WinXP and Debian Linux, and I find that each has strengths and weaknesses.
I happen to prefer Linux for most things (especially my servers), but that doesn't mean Windows has no place on my HDDs.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: XP is a fairly decent OS if you can get past all the bugs, security holes, and DRM.
Actually, I agree with him. XP is a *reasonably* stable OS in my experience - it's a pity about all the security holes, lack of compatibility (just try playing an older game on it like Legacy Of Kain - Blood Omen if you don't believe me), DRM stuff on the way, and vendor lock-in.
The bad, as usual with MS, outweighs the good. But it's not _all_ bad.
Hell, compare it to windows 98. =)
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait wait wait...
.... someone PLEASE tell me I read that wrong...
They're SUING their _own customers_!?!!
I'm fairly sure the idea of Konqueror came from:
First was the Navigator
Then was the Explorer
Now is the Konqueror
Cheesy as all hell, but explain it to n00b like that and they quit whinging =)
I have no excuse for Gnumeric, however =)
Actually, I kind of like the idea of K's and G's in the naming scheme. Very very easy way of knowing which suite/desktop/whatever the apps are designed for/part of. Also adds an element of individuality to the two projects and their associated or contributed software.
And let's not forget, Enlightenment does the same thing with "E"s. Evas, Epplets, Eterm, ESD, and so on. I just wish it had a suite more akin to KDE or Gnome for me to futz with...
Admittedly, it can get a little out of hand.
This guy didn't happen to have dinner with the ex-Iraqi Information Minister recently did he? Certainly seems to be the same approach...
Q L_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL*** Address fc873d6c has base at fc870000 - i8042prt.SYS.....
"The evil penguins are _not_ in the kernel. We will crush the infidels with our mighty litigation machine. Our code has never, and will never crash. It is secu..*BRZZZT*
*** STOP: 0x0000000A (0x00000000,0x0000001A,0x00000000,0xFC873D6C)
IR
and so on.
I remember hearing about something like this being developed at the Uni. of Otago here in NZ in the late '90s.... a rotating screen, on to which was projected a little running stick figure from multiple angles. Upshot was you could view it from any angle, perspectively corrent....
Wonder if this is based on that (seems like the same idea)?
I'm pretty sure it's planned for Mandrake 10.0
You're perfectly right. Any techie worth his paycheck already knows what's going on with linux. It's the tech-illiterate, scared-of-deleting-the-internet end users, salespeople and (most importantly) managers that need to be swayed.
;)
Where tech-talk fails, a cuddly stuffed penguin presented by this girl might just do the drink.
Hell, I'd format on the spot.
Well, considering this is an industry dominated by males (why, I'm not sure, I know some real g33k chicks, but very few), this is a good marketing approach AFAIC.
All the non-tech guys out there see (keep in mind, this is in marketing-thought) that this whole linux thing isn't just some bunch of hairy, sweaty guys sitting around drinking mountain dew and grepping their lives away. Look, girls can use this too! And they _like_ it! If you use this OS, girls will like you too! Casually drop "sed" and "awk" in a conversation, and you're good as LAID! What a deal!
Sexist sounding, yes, but it's the origin of every marketing campaign (think Coke) for the last 30-odd years. Sex sells.
the fact that SCO have nothing to say. After month and months of painting themselves fluro orange, attaching a halogen lamp to their foreheads and screaming at the top of their lungs in order to get everyone's attention, the last few things that have come out they've remained tight-lipped over.
I'd like to think they're either running out of things to say, or they've realised how much damage they were doing by spouting so much drivel.
But part of me just can't shake the feeling that something's up...
Wtf is a "pheg"?
And i'm allowed to be excited, i've never got fp before =)
flamebait? that was my honest opinion!
When will it end!!!
It should be legal to kick the living crap out of anyone that wants to take out/enforce patents this downright dumb.
(First post too, I think) *ding*
Holy. Crap.
We actually got them to first place in google.....
Well done slashdotters, well done indeed.