>NAT is like having a chaperone, where all communication happens through a 3rd party. It increases network traffic, it makes peer-to-peer internet impossible. And it is not security. You only need to trick inside device to connect to outside device, and there goes NAT as security! And that is quite easy.
Mind to elaborate? Is there anything special in Ipv6 that makes a router any less hard to "trick"? Also, some NAT devices are not that easy to "trick" and have security certifications (Common Criteria).
on the other hand, in a NAT-less world, if you run a large organization, what good does it makes for an external web site or your ISP to know what each machine inside your network actually visits? Say you are a bank, or a.gob organization... now, instead of having all web access coming from one or two or three proxy/NAT addresses, you have a one-to-one connection from each pc in your network... is that difficult to "trick" someone you want to do something special now and address specific internal address of your organization from the internet?
I'm not against IPv6 itself, but the rage against NAT seems unjustified. If there's no need for it, it will go away alone. Now, there are people that might need NAT, as they don't want external addresses to "know" what each internal address of an organization browses or anything. For those, seems IPv6 is lacking some funtionality for no good reason.
>> The same reason you'd have to pay a second time to see a movie in theatre again, is it not?
No, I' guess there are different things if I'm using a theater: I'll be using again things such as HVAC, electricity, the seat, the guy that opens the door and proyects the movie. I should be able to get a discount if copyright stands. Otherwise, the copyright thing is just mumbo jumbo. I guess a format that wanted to charge every time I saw a movie died for a reason.
In any way the original poster is saying that the upgrade should be free, but if I own the right to see a movie at home in VHS or DVD, then the "price" should be cheaper for the upgrade as there is a portion of the product that I already own. Otherwise, oh $DEITY, I'd be forced to think that all those "download" trials based on copyright laws are just a big lie and all about people trying to make an easy buck on a corrupted law system!
"The analysts want to position Nokia against Apple, it makes for good drama and a fun parlor game. But then they don't do fair analysis of Nokia. Nokia is not competing against Apple. Nokia's business is the phones business. The PC industry sells about 300 million personal computers of which Apple had about 4% last year. Most of the computer industry last year was not 'mobile'. The mobile phone industry sells about 1.3 Billion handsets globally, and Nokia had about 38% of that last year. Yes, Nokia alone sells more mobile phones than the total global size of the personal computer industry worldwide."
Close your eyes and repeat "Please do not repeat Star Wars prequels , please do not repeat Star Wars prequels". Let me rescue something from those years!
> A computer will be much better at facts. So it's mostly a question of grammar. And the hardest problem is likely figuring out wordplay, which occasionally comes up in jeopardy.
But, will it be funnier than Sean Connery?. Hope it can make more word-games as "The pen is mightier"
Which is interesting... would he had done it in 6 days if the seventh he couldn't rest? or he would have take longer to have energy for the next engagement, or did he just procrastinated in the next one? Does he need to rest at all? Is that a weakness?
> Even HP, Apple, and IBM are standing on shaky ground; they're international corporations whose primary business is at least somewhat internet related, but they still don't need 16 million addresses in one space
Well, IBM and I suspect HP (don't know about Apple) have an Intranet that goes all over the world. Each thing on the network needs a valid IP address on that network (is not like they NAT an entire country/division), every printer, every phone, every wifi cell phone (so you have IM, VoIP and email), every router, every server, every laptop, every desktop. I work on one of these international networks, and one of the limitations on some of them is that sometimes you just don't get your ip address because they ran out, you better wake up early. We are about 10.000 employees just in the city I work in).
> Believe me, NAT was a workaround to a limitation and we shouldn't be using this workaround at any more levels than necessary.
I don't want to believe, otherwise I'd go to a church.:) . Now, if I'm the IT guy in any organization that cares about security, I'd not want an external organization to pick on the habits of each of my internal users and their IPv6 addresses given how they contact an external site, enabling it to provide content based on who's sitting a specific address/system of an internal network (for good or evil). I want NAT.
> And why would you need nat for that? Inbound scans can be blocked by the firewall on the router. Outbound traffic sniffing needs to approximate anyways either by looking at the IP's in use or how fast the ports change in NAT (PAT really). NAT has never been anything but security through obscurity over a standard firewall.
Because being sure that your internal network can not be addressed from the internet as it uses private IP numbers is a way to add security by making sure that if you make a mistake in the border, at least there's no way to address your internal network directly. The people that implement this see this NAT as a feature. If you don't need to use it, please don't.
> Can we at least all agree that NAT is evil, and destroys one of the nicest features of TCP/IP (and a free Internet): it creates a network of peers?
No. some people with internal networks to "protect" see NAT at the border as a feature to implement a "choke point" and be sure that the internal network can not be routed over the internet. Now having each node in your internal network "routeable" from the internet will make for interesting things to happen if you make a mistake in the border.
> How about the ability to finally solve the NAT problem
I'm sure a bank that has a good number of systems at his offices will be delighted to hear that now they are fully available worldwide. The "NAT at the border" is more of a feature than a bug to many of this type of organizations.
> Is Nokia's Symbian devices every actually used outside of Europe/Asia?
Yes. I live in South America, and work in Argentina. I travel to the US at least once a year. I own a E71. My wife a E51. It supports my companies VPN, email, even putty, and instant messaging. Battery (on the E71 at least) is very good. I even run Garmin XT so I don't need a standalone GPS most of the time.
At least three of my buddies in the company own E71's as well. So yes, they are actually used:) How about market share? Wouldn't know....
Stewart Rules: Novell Wins! CASE CLOSED!
Thursday, June 10 2010 @ 04:14 PM EDT
Here you go, munchkins. Judge Ted Stewart has ruled for Novell and against SCO. Novell's claim for declaratory judgment is granted; SCO's claims for specific performance and breach of the implied covenant of good fair and fair dealings are denied. Also SCO's motion for judgment as a matter of law or for a new trial: denied. Novell is entitled to waive, at its sole discretion, claims against IBM, Sequent and other SVRX licensees.
CASE CLOSED!
Maybe I should say cases closed. The door has slammed shut on the SCO litigation machine. The judge writes in the Memorandum Decision and Order about SCOsource, "Finally, while SCO's witnesses testified that the copyrights were 'required' for SCO to run its SCOsource licensing program, this was not something that SCO ever acquired from Novell." He totally got it. He noticed Darl McBride admitted that SCO didn't need the copyrights for anything but SCOsource. It couldn't be any better if I'd written it myself.
Was the jury misled or confused? Not at all, the judge writes: "The jury could have rejected the testimony of SCO's witnesses for a number of reasons, including their lack of involvement in drafting the APA, the fact that there was little testimony on any actual discussions concerning the transfer of copyrights, or that many of the witnesses had a financial interest in the litigation."
"The Clerk of the Court is directed to close this case forthwith," Stewart writes in the final judgment. I believe that means SCO v. IBM is essentially over now, unless IBM wishes to pursue its counterclaims.
And now it is -- finally -- time, once again, for my red dress! And a huge thank you to Michael Jacobs and the team at Morrison & Foerster, who never gave up but, more importantly, showed that you can fight hard and win with ethics and dignity, and to Sterling Brennan of Workman|Nydegger, who was frankly absolutely wonderful at trial. And thank you to you, Groklaw volunteers, because we made a difference in this world.
SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR THE PLAYSTATION®3 SYSTEM
PLEASE READ THIS SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS.
Version 1.0 (November 11, 2006)
yadayadayada
3. SERVICES AND UPDATES
From time to time, SCE may provide certain updates, upgrades or services to your PS3 system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines.
Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you sign onto SCE's online network, and others may be available to you through SCE's website or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, and new or revised settings and features which may prevent access to pirated games, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system.
Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.
From TFA:
From time to time, SCE may provide updates, upgrades or services to your PS3 system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines or provide you with new offerings.
Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online, and others may be available to you through SCE's online network or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, new technology or revised settings and features which may prevent access to unauthorized or pirated content, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system.
Additionally, you may not be able to view your own content if it includes or displays content that is protected by authentication technology. Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.
DIFF:
"or provide you with new offerings."
"Additionally, you may not be able to view your own content if it includes or displays content that is protected by authentication technology"
Don't know if I'm missing anything else.
Hey, just in case no one wants to follow the link:
SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR THE PLAYSTATION®3 SYSTEM
PLEASE READ THIS SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS.
Version 1.0 (November 11, 2006)
yadayadayada
3. SERVICES AND UPDATES
From time to time, SCE may provide certain updates, upgrades or services to your PS3 system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines. Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you sign onto SCE's online network, and others may be available to you through SCE's website or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, and new or revised settings and features which may prevent access to pirated games, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system. Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.
A trip to the store can take more than a day if you happen to want a movie on a day when the city buses are not running. In some cities, buses don't run on Sundays or about six major holidays.
That's nothing. A trip to the store could take weeks if you get taken hostage by an arm gang on the way and released later after lengthy negotiations by Jimmy Carter. Of course we always take this sort of scenario into account when deciding whether to download or buy from the store.
That's nothing. It could take months if you have your PS3 in your boat and you are traveling near the cost of Africa while testing your new satellite Internet link. While you might think that a short trip to the coast to take some pictures, meet some people, sightseeing and buying that new BluRay you heard about in some store could be interesting, you can also get kidnapped by one of those pirates gangs and spend months while someone put (a lot of) money on the table to take you back. This could specially apply also if you ship oil for a work on a large boat, or move large amounts of people around, or you do some high level fishing.
Of course we always take this sort of scenario into account when deciding whether to download or buy from the store at the shore.
if you can manage the set of users of your server, you can use OpenVPN and then SSH. OpenVPN has a "feature" that if each packet of the VPN is not digitally signed by a previously arranged (and distribuyed) key, then the packet is "ignored". After the VPN session is established/authenticated, your users can log in using ssh. There are even some virtual appliances and special distros (untangle.com) that have a "openvpn appliance" built in for this purpose. The how-to for openvpn is also easy to follow.
Everyone I know who visits the USA these days tells me what a pain in the ass it is to travel here now. I'm sure everyone on the IOC knows all about that.
-jcr
Well, I have a Passport from a Latin American country. I have a B1/B2 visa to enter de US, and I do not need a visa to enter Europe. Having said that, I have had the less problems entering the US, or northern EU states (Germany, Sweeden), than entering southern states in the EU (Spain, Italy, France). They make you show money, your ticket back to your contry (back in the day when they were not electronic), where are you going to stay, what do you do, whatever. If Customs controlls play a role in taking Chicago down, then the same (or worse) can be said for Madrid.
Slashdot Mirror
Mind to elaborate? Is there anything special in Ipv6 that makes a router any less hard to "trick"? Also, some NAT devices are not that easy to "trick" and have security certifications (Common Criteria).
on the other hand, in a NAT-less world, if you run a large organization, what good does it makes for an external web site or your ISP to know what each machine inside your network actually visits? Say you are a bank, or a .gob organization... now, instead of having all web access coming from one or two or three proxy/NAT addresses, you have a one-to-one connection from each pc in your network... is that difficult to "trick" someone you want to do something special now and address specific internal address of your organization from the internet?
I'm not against IPv6 itself, but the rage against NAT seems unjustified. If there's no need for it, it will go away alone. Now, there are people that might need NAT, as they don't want external addresses to "know" what each internal address of an organization browses or anything. For those, seems IPv6 is lacking some funtionality for no good reason.
No, I' guess there are different things if I'm using a theater: I'll be using again things such as HVAC, electricity, the seat, the guy that opens the door and proyects the movie. I should be able to get a discount if copyright stands. Otherwise, the copyright thing is just mumbo jumbo. I guess a format that wanted to charge every time I saw a movie died for a reason.
In any way the original poster is saying that the upgrade should be free, but if I own the right to see a movie at home in VHS or DVD, then the "price" should be cheaper for the upgrade as there is a portion of the product that I already own. Otherwise, oh $DEITY, I'd be forced to think that all those "download" trials based on copyright laws are just a big lie and all about people trying to make an easy buck on a corrupted law system!
...and without using some 300W worth of electricity.
This looks like something from a Nokia fanboy, but it has some interesting numbers: http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2010/12/some-symbian-sanity-why-nokia-will-not-join-google-android-or-microsoft-phone-7.html
"The analysts want to position Nokia against Apple, it makes for good drama and a fun parlor game. But then they don't do fair analysis of Nokia. Nokia is not competing against Apple. Nokia's business is the phones business. The PC industry sells about 300 million personal computers of which Apple had about 4% last year. Most of the computer industry last year was not 'mobile'. The mobile phone industry sells about 1.3 Billion handsets globally, and Nokia had about 38% of that last year. Yes, Nokia alone sells more mobile phones than the total global size of the personal computer industry worldwide."
Movistar in Argentina uses 10.x.x.x network addressing on Mobile phones last time I checked.
Close your eyes and repeat "Please do not repeat Star Wars prequels , please do not repeat Star Wars prequels". Let me rescue something from those years!
But, will it be funnier than Sean Connery?. Hope it can make more word-games as "The pen is mightier"
mo cuishle lost already, but this looks like good news for similar cases, hope that there's a solution fast enough,
Which is interesting... would he had done it in 6 days if the seventh he couldn't rest? or he would have take longer to have energy for the next engagement, or did he just procrastinated in the next one? Does he need to rest at all? Is that a weakness?
Deep questions, for sure.
They are just building up a business model for bike insurance
Well, IBM and I suspect HP (don't know about Apple) have an Intranet that goes all over the world. Each thing on the network needs a valid IP address on that network (is not like they NAT an entire country/division), every printer, every phone, every wifi cell phone (so you have IM, VoIP and email), every router, every server, every laptop, every desktop. I work on one of these international networks, and one of the limitations on some of them is that sometimes you just don't get your ip address because they ran out, you better wake up early. We are about 10.000 employees just in the city I work in).
I don't want to believe, otherwise I'd go to a church. :) . Now, if I'm the IT guy in any organization that cares about security, I'd not want an external organization to pick on the habits of each of my internal users and their IPv6 addresses given how they contact an external site, enabling it to provide content based on who's sitting a specific address/system of an internal network (for good or evil). I want NAT.
Because being sure that your internal network can not be addressed from the internet as it uses private IP numbers is a way to add security by making sure that if you make a mistake in the border, at least there's no way to address your internal network directly. The people that implement this see this NAT as a feature. If you don't need to use it, please don't.
> Can we at least all agree that NAT is evil, and destroys one of the nicest features of TCP/IP (and a free Internet): it creates a network of peers? No. some people with internal networks to "protect" see NAT at the border as a feature to implement a "choke point" and be sure that the internal network can not be routed over the internet. Now having each node in your internal network "routeable" from the internet will make for interesting things to happen if you make a mistake in the border.
> How about the ability to finally solve the NAT problem I'm sure a bank that has a good number of systems at his offices will be delighted to hear that now they are fully available worldwide. The "NAT at the border" is more of a feature than a bug to many of this type of organizations.
Yes. I live in South America, and work in Argentina. I travel to the US at least once a year. I own a E71. My wife a E51. It supports my companies VPN, email, even putty, and instant messaging. Battery (on the E71 at least) is very good. I even run Garmin XT so I don't need a standalone GPS most of the time.
At least three of my buddies in the company own E71's as well. So yes, they are actually used :) How about market share? Wouldn't know....
Or lets quote her:
Stewart Rules: Novell Wins! CASE CLOSED! Thursday, June 10 2010 @ 04:14 PM EDT
Here you go, munchkins. Judge Ted Stewart has ruled for Novell and against SCO. Novell's claim for declaratory judgment is granted; SCO's claims for specific performance and breach of the implied covenant of good fair and fair dealings are denied. Also SCO's motion for judgment as a matter of law or for a new trial: denied. Novell is entitled to waive, at its sole discretion, claims against IBM, Sequent and other SVRX licensees.
CASE CLOSED!
Maybe I should say cases closed. The door has slammed shut on the SCO litigation machine. The judge writes in the Memorandum Decision and Order about SCOsource, "Finally, while SCO's witnesses testified that the copyrights were 'required' for SCO to run its SCOsource licensing program, this was not something that SCO ever acquired from Novell." He totally got it. He noticed Darl McBride admitted that SCO didn't need the copyrights for anything but SCOsource. It couldn't be any better if I'd written it myself.
Was the jury misled or confused? Not at all, the judge writes: "The jury could have rejected the testimony of SCO's witnesses for a number of reasons, including their lack of involvement in drafting the APA, the fact that there was little testimony on any actual discussions concerning the transfer of copyrights, or that many of the witnesses had a financial interest in the litigation."
"The Clerk of the Court is directed to close this case forthwith," Stewart writes in the final judgment. I believe that means SCO v. IBM is essentially over now, unless IBM wishes to pursue its counterclaims.
And now it is -- finally -- time, once again, for my red dress! And a huge thank you to Michael Jacobs and the team at Morrison & Foerster, who never gave up but, more importantly, showed that you can fight hard and win with ethics and dignity, and to Sterling Brennan of Workman|Nydegger, who was frankly absolutely wonderful at trial. And thank you to you, Groklaw volunteers, because we made a difference in this world.
I've participated in a few industry wide organizations like this. They can be somewhat effective, but even then, they move very, very slowly.
I hope it turns out better than the old "Project Monterrey" thing...
SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR THE PLAYSTATION®3 SYSTEM
PLEASE READ THIS SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS.
Version 1.0 (November 11, 2006)
yadayadayada
3. SERVICES AND UPDATES
From time to time, SCE may provide certain updates, upgrades or services to your PS3 system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines.
Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you sign onto SCE's online network, and others may be available to you through SCE's website or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, and new or revised settings and features which may prevent access to pirated games, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system.
Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.
From TFA:
From time to time, SCE may provide updates, upgrades or services to your PS3 system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines or provide you with new offerings.
Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online, and others may be available to you through SCE's online network or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, new technology or revised settings and features which may prevent access to unauthorized or pirated content, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system.
Additionally, you may not be able to view your own content if it includes or displays content that is protected by authentication technology. Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.
DIFF:
"or provide you with new offerings."
"Additionally, you may not be able to view your own content if it includes or displays content that is protected by authentication technology" Don't know if I'm missing anything else.
Well, then maybe we all already agreed to it. That was in EULA v1.0. Check it out http://web.archive.org/web/20061206023303/http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html
Hey, just in case no one wants to follow the link:
SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR THE PLAYSTATION®3 SYSTEM
PLEASE READ THIS SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS.
Version 1.0 (November 11, 2006)
yadayadayada
3. SERVICES AND UPDATES
From time to time, SCE may provide certain updates, upgrades or services to your PS3 system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines. Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you sign onto SCE's online network, and others may be available to you through SCE's website or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, and new or revised settings and features which may prevent access to pirated games, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system. Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.
Lengthy download instead of a trip to the store.
A trip to the store can take more than a day if you happen to want a movie on a day when the city buses are not running. In some cities, buses don't run on Sundays or about six major holidays.
That's nothing. A trip to the store could take weeks if you get taken hostage by an arm gang on the way and released later after lengthy negotiations by Jimmy Carter. Of course we always take this sort of scenario into account when deciding whether to download or buy from the store.
That's nothing. It could take months if you have your PS3 in your boat and you are traveling near the cost of Africa while testing your new satellite Internet link. While you might think that a short trip to the coast to take some pictures, meet some people, sightseeing and buying that new BluRay you heard about in some store could be interesting, you can also get kidnapped by one of those pirates gangs and spend months while someone put (a lot of) money on the table to take you back. This could specially apply also if you ship oil for a work on a large boat, or move large amounts of people around, or you do some high level fishing.
Of course we always take this sort of scenario into account when deciding whether to download or buy from the store at the shore.
if you can manage the set of users of your server, you can use OpenVPN and then SSH. OpenVPN has a "feature" that if each packet of the VPN is not digitally signed by a previously arranged (and distribuyed) key, then the packet is "ignored". After the VPN session is established/authenticated, your users can log in using ssh. There are even some virtual appliances and special distros (untangle.com) that have a "openvpn appliance" built in for this purpose. The how-to for openvpn is also easy to follow.
Everyone I know who visits the USA these days tells me what a pain in the ass it is to travel here now. I'm sure everyone on the IOC knows all about that.
-jcr
Well, I have a Passport from a Latin American country. I have a B1/B2 visa to enter de US, and I do not need a visa to enter Europe. Having said that, I have had the less problems entering the US, or northern EU states (Germany, Sweeden), than entering southern states in the EU (Spain, Italy, France). They make you show money, your ticket back to your contry (back in the day when they were not electronic), where are you going to stay, what do you do, whatever. If Customs controlls play a role in taking Chicago down, then the same (or worse) can be said for Madrid.
Alcohols have a hydroxyl group, so it could also be ethyl alcohol (C3C2OH).
Ethyl alcohol? you mean the kind of alcohol found in Alcoholic beverages? Now we are talking!! This will surely spark a new race to the moon!