Slashdot Mirror
Did Chicago Lose Olympic Bid Due To US Passport Control?
An anonymous reader writes "Yesterday, Chicago lost its bid for the 2016 Olympics (which went to Rio de Janeiro instead), and it's looking very likely that US border procedures were one of the main factors which knocked Chicago out of the race: 'Among the toughest questions posed to the Chicago bid team this week in Copenhagen was one that raised the issue of what kind of welcome foreigners would get from airport officials when they arrived in this country to attend the Games. Syed Shahid Ali, an I.O.C. member from Pakistan, in the question-and-answer session following Chicago's official presentation, pointed out that entering the United States can be "a rather harrowing experience." ... The exchange underscores what tourism officials here have been saying for years about the sometimes rigorous entry process for foreigners, which they see as a deterrent to tourism.'"
Everyone I know who visits the USA these days tells me what a pain in the ass it is to travel here now. I'm sure everyone on the IOC knows all about that.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
That's not the reason. They knew if they had it in Chicago it would become "Obama's Event" and Zogby has international approval for Obama at 45% and falling. Passports are nothing compared to the process of setting up an entire Olympics event.
...but you ain't gettin' my fingerprints for the privilege. What am I, a criminal?
Reform your system, and you'll see an increase in tourism, with all the good that that does your economy.
Increasing crime rates, including murder, why were we bidding Chicago in the first place? There are plenty of other US cities that are more worthy of this honor.
I'm a peaceful Norwegian with two (many years ago) convictions for possession of small amounts (1-2 joints) of marihuana. My grandmother wants to take me to visit our family in Boston next year, and I'm not looking forward to it at all because of one thing only: US border control and visa stupidity. The US is the only country in the world to care about a stupid posession misdemeanor - I could go anywhere else without issue at all..
I thought that was the whole point.
What's that? They're for stopping TERRORISM, you say? Naaaaah, can't be.
(I once went one a round-the-world holiday. At Fiji's passport control, they gave us garlands, and serenaded us with guitars; at US passport control they growled at us.)
I've read it years ago that the USA is losing billions per year in tourism after the 9/11 border restrictions.
The Olympics became a disgustingly commercial event for the past few decades and corporations are going to put pressure towards a location where prospective visitors aren't put off by over the top security measures...
The next time someone asks what's the harm in the security theatre, point them towards the loss of tourism. I have to say I'm one of those people who deeply resent the invasive fingerprint taking entrance to the USA. It's a shame that stupid border procedures prevent me from visiting an otherwise beautiful country...
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Well it could also be because a Rio olympics would be really awesome. I don't think Chicago could compete on atmosphere with Rio.
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
I can give you a personal example of this - my father is a 76-year old western european citizen, and has been to the US easily a hundred times and was a US resident for over a decade. And as a merchant, he's spent easily many hundred of thousands on goods in the US over the past 40 years. Last Christmas, he came over to see us, and at the local International Airport he was pulled aside, patted down, his baggage and items gone over in detail, and interrogated for 20 minutes. Why? No reason given. As a result, he doesn't want to come to the US at all any more, so we have to go visit in Europe or rendezvous in another 3rd country. Yea, I know, we get to go to Europe more often, but it's a lot more expensive & difficult to coordinate schedules and take the family than to have one person travel here.
I spent a lot of last year overseas on projects - and I heard over and over again from people that no longer think it's worth it to come to the US for shows/conferences/travel because of the travel restrictions and attitude toward non-US citizens by customs and immigration.
-a.e.mossberg
More likely, part of the reason Chi. lost the Olymipic bid had something to do with an honor's student getting hit on the side of the head with a railroad tie (as captured and shown on CNN and youtube.
There are people out of control in Chicago right now and I have to say I can't blame the IOC for not wanting to go there. Along with the traffic issues and overwhelming government corruption there are too many problems for Chicago to have an Olympics in the near future.
The amount of man-handling and smug stares I have to endure from thick-necked, multi-chinned police academy rejects is bad enough when flying domestically. That's no way to welcome the largest tourist event in the world.
I live in London, where just about anyone you ask who lives here will tell you they don't want the games, never wanted the games, and are angry that money to fund the building of venues and facilities is being taken from National Lottery funds and (possibly) direct taxation.
Mileage varies considerably in the short and long-term economic and social effects of hosting an Olympics. London doesn't need it, and Chicago may well not have done either.
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
And get precleared through US immigration while still within a civilised country? No joking: if the Security Theatre misidentifies me as a notorious enemy of Freedemocracy, I'd rather prove my innocence to just about anyone except US "Homeland Security".
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Frankly, I'm glad to see them reject our bid and I'm even happier to see them state why. Everyone knows the border restrictions are stupidly strict in some ways, and too lax in others. What makes this even better is that President Obama himself did the presentation, so it will come as a slap in the face to him. This will hopefully get him moving on rolling back some of the more bothersome portions of provisions of us air travel border restrictions
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
Travelling through the US (spending a night there) is one of the worst things that can happen to you. I now avoid it at all costs, even if the other alternative is alot more expensive, hell its even worse that going through Venezuela. You don't need to make people jump through hundreds unnecessary hoops, treat them like some kind parasite/criminal you don't want anywhere near your country and employ the stupidest, most incompetent, pettiest little assholes to handle them in order to protect your country from the big bad terrorism. If a terrorist wants in, its not going to be hard, airports that treat people like scum are just further isolating your country from the rest of the world.
Just so you know, people at American airports don't treat *Americans* very well either.
"The most ridiculous interview I heard with my own ears:
Interviewer: "What did you have this morning as breakfast?"
Applicant: "Bread." I: "Nothing else?"
Applicant: "No."
Interviewer: "According to American law, we cannot grant you a visa."
Applicant: "....".
I was sitting beside the person when he was rejected. You know, it is funny to reject someone according American law just because he only had bread in the morning."
From http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/20060519_getting_us_visa_in_china.htm
Some people enjoy cavity searches when they're on their way to Disneyland.
Hi,
I try quite hard to avoid US airports too, including transitting throigh both Mexico and Canada, but when I do I find the staff quite pleasant, by and large. They are generally decent folk operating a pretty poor system. Most Americans, in my experience, are substantially more polite than most Europeans, and this seems ot carry over to your Border protection people.
You know, as much as I hate how Obama continually sets himself and America up for trampling on by all members of the international community, Rio deserves this, and so does Chicago for that matter.
The Olympics belong to the emerging economies, not the first world. Western nations whine so much about the possibility of hosting the Olympics, why on earth should they choose any western nation? London has cried from the get go of how much it'll cost, how other large scale projects have failed miserably, even how much traffic it would bring and how much it would, oh gasp, inconvenience the local populace. F em. Half of Chicagoans didn't even *want* the Olympics hosted there. WTF? Why have it there then? What a welcome!
Contrast the western media's handling of the London bid, the Chicago bid with that of the Beijing games and their exuberance. It was the most spectacular games in history, and they were positively giddy to be hosting it. Contrast Chicago's reception of their own bid with Rio's. You get the feeling that all of Brazil wants to host it, so let them! While I don't think it'll be as big as the Beijing olympics, it will be far more spectacular, optimistic, and inviting than anything any of the other condenders would have been able to muster.
A history of city government corruption that goes back so far I don't remember a time when it didn't exist, neither can my parents...
A weak police force that's powerless to control the gangs and violence that occurs on a daily basis...
A solid history of mob corrupted city services...
Pollution â" better bring your bottled water since BP is allowed to dumps millions of gallons of solvents into Lake Michigan which is the main source of fresh water...
Don't even get me started about the construction that would need to happen to host the Olympics there â" they can't build anything anywhere near budget or on deadline. Millennium Park, the gigantic park that was to be built for the big Millennium celebration, was tens of millions of dollars over-budget and completed years late, not to mention the poor quality of construction all-around (a moderate downpour will result in days of "raining" inside all levels of Millennium parking garage).
No one seems to pay attention to the fact that they are laying off record numbers of city employees at all levels due to budget deficits, do they somehow think things would magically correct themselves and they would have the funds needed to host an event that size?
They'd have to move the Olympics to Milwaukee at the last minute just so they could happen.
Two words: Kennedy & O'Hare
The only real loser in all this is the mob. They were rubbing their mitts up until yesterday.
In fact I can't even think of one good reason to hold the Olympics in Chicago. I can't believe they are actually surprised they lost.
Then again, when I'm already in Canada, why would I want to go to the US ;)
Anyone ever try to enter Brazil? They aren't the easiest either...
What sane person would choose "Chicago" over "Rio de Janiero"? Passport control? Are you kidding me? Chicago is known for being wet, cold, windy, and expensive.
Maybe this will be the wakeup call for Chicago, that their culture of bribery is actually costing them business. But I doubt it.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
I'm grateful for the men and women who patrol our borders. If this report is true, their hard work has kept us safe from another potential disaster: Having to endure 7 years of unrelenting hype, having to witness multiple late and overbudget Stalinesque construction projects, all capped off by an orgy of hypocritical corporate-sponsored "amateur" contests and overblown nationalism. Good job!
...I'm glad Rio got it. Not just because it's about time a South American country got a chance (though shouldn't the Summer Olympics be held in January down there?), but because I would expect an Olympics held in Chicago would create a black hole sucking in money from all over the country, at a time we can ill afford to increase our deficit.
And no, I don't consider sports stadiums an "investment." There are plenty of economic analyses that show that any return on investment on projects like this -- a return which is iffy, I might add -- is far less than what could be created by using the same resources repairing existing infrastructure.
No, Chicago lost the bid because Chicago is a horrible, horrible place.
Bearded people especially, even if they have a short Abe Lincoln style beard like mine.
You think the US immigration process is more of a hassle than China's? Hell, they made it MORE difficult to get a tourist visa after getting the Olympic nod.
I think the immigration process had little to do with the decision.
1) The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate when measured against citizen head count to incarcerated or otherwise restricted status citizenry (Parole/Probation) of ANY country in the world.
2) A convicted U.S. felon can still travel internationally to other countries, yet the U.S. refuses to consider allowing another country's citizens to arrive here for what constitutes a misdemeanor or less, regardless of time passed
3) Getting back into the country as a citzen or "worse" GC or other status holder is worse than painful if singled out for secondary. I am non-white and get profiled every time I come back, despite having served and having no "reasons" to be flagged other than my last name which is clearly non-american originated.
4) While requiring a VISA or fingerprinting itself is not counter-intuitive to travel, the manner and inconsistency is. Having said that, for being touted as "the land of the free" and "a shining beacon of democracy" is ironic itself when our policies at the border (or even non-border with the TSA and Border Agents) clearly indicate that we are profiling even inside our borders. How do you explain roving road blocks for "immigration" checks just because you happen to be on a road within 100 miles of a border....
5) To host in Chicago, we'd be doing the same things we did in Atlanta. We'd be buying the homeless once again a 1-way ticket to nowhere (or anywhere but "here"), we'd be tearing down projects and displacing people/families to make way for the Olympic Village, and you can be damn sure that the average "Chicagoan" (sp?) would not be able to even get into the venues, much less afford the cost of the tickets being hosted in their own city. This happened in Atlanta where I live in 1996....
6) We just had the summit in Pittsburgh that was shameful in the way it's citizenry were treated as well as most of the peaceful demonstrators. Beatings, the use of a sound cannon and extensive use of tear gas, etc had me thinking initially this was some other country where liberty and democracy/freedom of speech was supressed.... Turns out I was right, but had the wrong country in mind, which was depressing and downright scary
The list could go on with examples, but it would be unfair to clutter the Slashdot database with further examples that are easily googled.
I do love my country and the people in it for the most part, but I'd be lying if I said I believed 95% of the hype that our Tourism Board spews out to attract visitors. I think the loss of tourism and downturn in visitors since we enacted the failed Patriot Act speaks volumes, the rest of the tidbits I shared just add further fuel to the reasons why those who would like to see us (the U.S.) just stay the hell away.
Suffice it to say in my opinion that on the one hand we have U.S. which has clearly become a very dim shadow of itself and the other hand we're trying to portray ourselves, or at least that's my impression as a U.S. Citizen.....
If you'd finished your post with "for now".
You might have god modded insightful :)
I could come up with some reasons:
- It was just not americas turn. The Olympics is trying to spread it around the globe.
- And, your olympic commitee has been in dispute with The Olympics because of percentage of earnings.
- Quite frankly, the presentation and sending Obama created a unpleasant pressure.
- The US is not making efforts considering drugs/doping, and have make minimal progress in the last ten years.
The US must step down from its virtual high horse and ask itself what they do wrong. The US Passport control is not among where you should change.
The IOC is about money..
If you don't get that then you do not understand what the IOC is all about and what the Olympics has become. Its all about the greed. Low labor rates, compliant legal systems and municipalities, government subsidizing, etc are the cornerstones of the IOC, its a balance between the ability of rich countries to subsidize the build out and poor countries able to do it for cheap, either way as long as it meets the IOCs guiding principles of greed you make the list. Chicago didn't make the grade because it is uninteresting as a destination. The original story is a red herring which you all fell for.
As a visitor entering Japan, you are subject to being fingerprinted and having your picture taken at border control as well as a bunch of harassing questions such as, "Where are you staying and who are you staying with?"(I always make up a fake address). I don't know how much different it is compared to the US, but if they rejected Chicago because of these restrictions, they probably rejected Tokyo for a lot of the same reasons.
Monstar L
I can't help but feel pleased to see the Olympics go to Rio, not Chicago. Hooray for the free world.
I am not an American citizen. At the US border a couple years ago I was subject to a search (ok) and a politically motivated interrogation over 6 hours (not ok) asking me who I knew, etc. They asked me about anything and everything. Was I running drugs? Was I a terrorist who spent time in Pakistan? They seized my laptop and sent it to forensics. Anything and everything was on the table, if only they could pin something on me. You probably don't know what it is like to have every word you speak carry so much weight. What if I misspoke? What if something I thought was perfectly legal turned out to be illegal, and I admitted to it? What if I forgot to delete a questionable picture from my laptop, or brought herbal pills restricted in the USA but not my home country? They tested everything. Finally, after hours of mind games, threats, and good-cop-bad-cop routines, I was fingerprinted, photographed, and refused entry. I had no criminal convictions, no connections to violent or drug organizations, and did not originate in a country known for trouble. My "crime" was to speak and write on unpopular matters. My biometric information is now contained in some databases somewhere. Probably the "servers in the sky." Two weeks later my laptop was returned. I threw it away. The whole experience was terrifying. That to me is America. A terrifying police state where what you say will be used against you at every opportunity. I stopped speaking out.
...is that the Republicans-and probably more than a few Democrats-are going to blame Obama and his administration for something THEY ruined.
[End Of Line]
I "love" how everything that needs fixing these days is supposed to be fixed by fixing "the image". Don't address the problem, market. There are more than a few people who really don't buy the marketing BS anymore and the younger ones seem to be catching on quicker.
Reminds me of Qantas. Firing a whole bunch of workers then allocating $20 million on an advertising campaign to tell us that they are still wonderful even though services were being hobbled. Personally I would have preferred they keep the services and not have to spend on the marketing but they probably act like the public service. The $20 was in someone elses budget so it couldn't be used for keeping workers. Pet hate, you can probably tell.
As for the US I certainly wont submit to being treated as a criminal just to visit a country so have made it clear that the US is one place we will never visit. Fortunatly there are quite a few other places to go.
From all those cities listed in the report linked above, only Athens seems to have failed to properly exploit the effect of hosting the Olympic Games.
All other cites (Barcelona, Atlanta, Sidney, Beijing) reported nothing but growth.
London doesn't need it, and Chicago may well not have done either.
Nonsense.
A global metropolis that can say "I'll pass" to billions invested in the infrastructure, millions of visitors and billions of pounds/dollars/euros spent by everyone?
No such place on this planet.
The effect on the crime and pollution alone (clean streets) is worth the trouble for the average Tom, Dick and Harry.
Those must be some crazy conservative xenophobes you talked to.
Not wanting money during a global economic crisis. Mad as bicycles that lot.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Unless something's changed in the past two years, this probably didn't have a huge effect, given that the next two games following Vancouver are going to be held in London and Moscow respectively. Neither the UK nor Russia have a reputation of being particularly welcoming to travelers.
Although not as bad as the US, border security in the UK is by far the most invasive in the EU, opting to screen people arriving from within other parts of the EU. Back when I used to hold a multiple-entry visa to the UK, it was treated as a point of suspicion every time I crossed the border (despite the fact that I had to provide the consulate with every shred of information about my private life in order to get the visa). This policy is completely and entirely illogical -- odds are that the border agencies knew more about me than they do about their own citizens.
On the other hand, Russia takes the cake for bizarre and restrictive immigration procedures. The US state department's page describes these in detail, as there are far too many peculiarities and specifics to list here.
If this was an issue, I seriously doubt that the UK or Russia would have been selected by the IOC. As it stands, Chicago didn't lose by that many votes, and the IOC's voting rules and distribution of membership are hardly fair. An IRV system is definitely needed to prevent the sort of gamesmanship that likely caused Chicago to lose, and somehow made Tokyo lose votes in the second round.
That all said, Rio will be a fantastic host for the games. This will be the first time ever that the Olympics have been held on the South American continent, which is a pretty cool milestone all in itself. I'm fairly confident that the US will be first in line for 2018.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
I've organized some international events, and US border control policies and visa requirements are a big argument against holding them in the US.
Border control in Europe is very simple in my experience; people check whether your passport is on a list, and if it's not, they just wave you through. No fingerprinting, photographs, long lines, tricky questions, pre-registration, or interrogation booths. And despite that, Europe seems to have been doing no worse on terrorism or illegal immigration than the US.
Chicago Violence:
My wife has permanent residency here in the US and I am a citizen . We used to be able to go through border control together and she was treated quite well. Now, she has to be fingerprinted (the fact that her fingerprints are already on file with immigration, has been through the interview process for permanent residency seem to make no difference).
I have permanent residency in her country, Singapore, as well. When we enter or exit Singapore, its quick and easy. Even before I had PR status, it was easier to get in and out of the country as a tourist than it was to get in and out of the US as a citizen. Land of the Free, my ass.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
"To lure visitors back, U.S. Travel has been pushing the Travel Promotion Act, which recently was passed in the Senate and is awaiting action in the House, to create a campaign to strengthen the image of the United States abroad"
Yeah, right. The fine print is that the promotion activities shall be paid by substantial fees to be collected from visitors which currently do not need a visa to travel to the US (ESTA notwithstanding).
Here in Europe that is generally considered completely counterproductive, braindead and reeking of the "forced money exchange for travellers" schemes which were enforced by former Eastern block countries during the cold war.
Indeed, the USA has led the world in making air travel a misery. I am always astonished how citizens of the "land of the free" tolerate it.
I have entered both USA and Brazil a number of times in the last few years. In Brazil I am welcomed by smiling officials of normal intelligence and body mass. In USA, a fat moron will threaten me. Consequently, I avoid USA in favour of Brazil.
I'm sure there's a requirement that only only douche bags can work within border control in the US. They do treat everyone, American or foreigner like a piece of shit. It's because if it wasn't for their cushy little job as a government bully, they'd probably be a toilet clear for Wal-Mart.
Being an American who has opted to live outside of the US seems to be some sort of crime in their eyes. At least I can take comfort in the fact my life means something unlike theirs.
Seriously? Last year, there were 500 murders in Chicago compared to over 2000 murders in Rio. Oh, and I'm sure that Rio is much less corrupt than Chicago also. Sheesh.
I am not sure if this can be translated directly to tourist number but I found this char on wiki on tourism : internationala rrival
It seems people just accept the security theater, and ignore it while enojoying their 5 days in Vegas. As anecdtotial story, my sister only remember her holiday, not the problem of the security while coming or going.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
They are concerned about what US Customs would do to foreigners, they should look at what they do to citizens. I was born and raised in the states, and still live in a state near a border. I recently crossed back into the states (by car) after 5 days in a neighboring country. I pulled up to customs and had to turn off my car and hand my keys to a leather-gloved customs officer so he could search my trunk, while I stayed in my car. I was not allowed to see what he was doing; he could have easily taken items from my trunk or placed items in my trunk without my knowing it. Eventually they cleared me but offered no explanation for what they were doing.
I have had similar experiences in the past as well, I once had to pull from the customs booth to the "additional screening" building (single car garage with doors on both ends) where I had to empty my trunk for a customs agent.
So I can't say I'm surprised if the security theater here was a deciding factor against having another Olympics here. Certainly our procedures have changed a fair bit since 1996.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
A DUI is something that carries the stigma of the high probability of the offender killing themselves or someone else. Having a joint is literally not a crime to anyone, and yet which one gets American nuts in a twist?
The disconnect in moral reasoning is getting ridiculous.
At the Olympics which did happen to be hosted in USA, in Atlanta, after all the nasty border control security the one terrorist act that actually occured was performed by a domestic terrorist.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
I didn't do anything. Leave me alone, don't steal my goddamn laptop. Don't harass me. Don't treat me the way you do.
the porous borders of Pakistan, who'll let anyone through with or without a passport.
fingerprinting is the thing that needs to be ceased. its so offensive its over the top.
http://www.anticharisma.com/
Even American citizens are frustrated by this. I cruise a couple of times a year and the port officials always seem to glare at you when you present your US passport. I can only imagine what it must be like for non-citizens coming in at the airports.
Bin Laden scored a great victory just by locking down freedom of movement in the US. I love traveling to other countries and almost always feel welcome. I wish the same were true here in the US.
For all the countries I have visited the US has the most unfriendliest immigration service of all even AFTER becoming an american citizen. I am still being questioned for the most ridiculous questions. Hey you do not need to ask me where I work, I am an american citizen, this is my country as much as yours including that I am paying your salary INS! Check my passport, ask me where I have been, confirm its me and let me thru. An illegal alien gets treated better crossing the southern border.
requiring a visa to change planes-and that was pre 9/11
JFK-london-BUD
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Once on a flight from Australia to Canada, my plane stopped to refuel at Hawaii airport.
When we were about an hour out approaching Hawaii, the flight attendants came around with US immigration cards for us to fill out. I was completely baffled and started to get seriously worried that I was on the wrong flight or some shit. I said to the attendant "But, we're going to Vancouver, right?". She replied "Yes, I'm sorry, everyone has to fill out a US immigration card". She seemed kinda puzzled by the whole thing too.
Not entirely put at ease, I started filling out the form, which was probably the most poorly laid-out and silliest form I've ever encountered in my life. Am I affiliated with the Nazi party? WTF is the matter with these people? I felt like I was being interrogated like a criminal suspect. Do I intend to commit acts of terrorism against the United States? Well right up until I was forced to fill out that form, I would have categorically said "no", but afterwards I have to admit my inclinations were changing in that regard.
My favourite question was "Why do you wish to enter the United States". I wrote down the only reasonable answer under the circumstances: "I don't".
So we all got off the plane, milled around Hawaii airport in swelteringly humid conditions for TWO HOURS, were forced to remove our shoes and finally, when it was my turn to meet the immigration official and hand in my stupid form, she looked at my answers, scowled at me and said "What does this mean, 'I don't'?".
I'm totally fucking serious. That's what she said.
I replied "It means just what it says. I don't wish to enter the United States."
She said, I shit you not, "Well why are you here then?".
Wow. Just ... wow. Here is a person whose job it is to enforce immigration policy and she doesn't even know that they force transit passengers who are not bound for the US to go through immigration? I feel an intense fury at the level of stupidity on display, but I clench my teeth and force myself to stay calm. After all, I don't want to get on the wrong side of this person/vegetable and get a finger stuck up my ass for my trouble.
After thinking for a moment about how I can explain the situation to a person of such ... limited mental faculty, I say "I'm going to Vancouver. My plane is refuelling here and apparently that means we have to go through US immigration?"
She levelling her blank stare at me for a few seconds, then shuffled some papers around while I stood there wondering what the hell kind of Twilight Zone bullshit I'd just wandered into. Then she stamped my passport, stapled the stupid form to it, muttered something at me and let me through. I had successfully visited the United States! Absent any consent or intention to do so! After all, it's not like travellers actually know which countries they want to go to. Better decide these things for them.
I then got back on my plane, sat in the exact same seat I had occupied two hours earlier, and we made our way to Vancouver.
When we arrived at Vancouver airport, a nice man in a suit asked me if I was a Canadian resident. I said "no" and with a polite "this way please sir" he directed me to the non-residents line. After waiting in the queue for about 5 minutes, the guy at the desk said "Oh you're from Australia. What brings you to Canada?" I said "Just here on holiday.". He asked "Gonna do any skiing while you're here?". I said "Maybe." He said "Cool.", stamped my passport and in I went.
Let's look at the contrast here. Canada treated me like a welcome visitor and the process was efficient and friendly. The US forced me to enter their country against my will whilst demanding that I explain why I was entering their country, and expected me to be grateful for the whole experience.
So in conclusion, I refuse to visit the US as long as this idiotic attitude prevails, and I think the IOC has made an eminently sensible choice regarding the 2016 Olympic Games.
..during her security check?
The Brits are the worst.
But the French are the best. They practically wave you through if they don't suspect you of anything. And the Europeans know this. I was once told by a Belgian immigration official to enter and exit Europe through Paris CDG if I was concerned with overstaying my Schegen visa, because, in essence, there was no way they would check.
it seems america is winning the war on tourism
Is ridiculous. You have to fill in a list where you have to mark all things with the obvious answer if you want to get in. This of course regardless of anything on there is true or not. Have you ever used drugs? Who is ever going to answer yes to that on a form. It's just for the feeling of safety. I refuse to take part in that kind of moral pressure to lie.
This must be some kind of joke. Having traveled to a varied of countries and having had friends and family visit from foreign countries coming into the US is no more difficult than it is going anywhere else. In fact, in some cases it's more of a pain going through immigrations in other countries although even then it's not the end of the world.
There is a problem I've found travelers encounter coming into the US, and that's good old shitty American service; immigration officers, for example who are complete assholes. They tend to be in bad moods for no apparent reason and they have little patience for people who can't speak English clearly. Obviously, not every immigration officer is like this. It's just a preview of what a foreigner is in for once they go out to shop. This is more of a cultural problem related to poor work ethic, among other things, than it is anything with immigration services.
However, I think the most important reason for Brazil being chosen is the fact that there hasn't yet been an Olympics in South America. Certainly Rio de Janeiro wasn't the best choice. I'm sure corruption will be rampant and it's going to be a logistical nightmare getting the games set up down there. Certainly, any of the other options were superior, with Japan likely being the best choice. And the fact is that until the US is no longer a superpower Europeans are going to continue disliking us.
Being a nation on the rise in the world's eyes is a much bigger factor. The passport thing might have played a small role, but I think that this is a lot more about Brazil than America. I don't have any opinion poll numbers available, but I would be willing to bet that Brazil has a higher percentage of the population in favor of the Olympics being in their back yard. Add to that the fact that there has never been a South American host city for the Olympics, paired with the Salt Lake, Atlanta, Los Angeles, and Lake Placid games in the recent past, and we have the emotional story that always plays so well with these types of votes. There are a bunch of other factors that would come into play (weather, facilities, mass transit, hotels, non-Olympic tourist destinations, etc.) that would come into play in this decision. Passports wouldn't rank very high on that list IMHO.
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
I'm a US citizen who recently went to China for a scientific conference. China has a reputation, no doubt well deserved, as a police state. But in terms of ridiculous airport security and immigration control, it's nowhere *near* as bad as the Americans. The Chinese are bureaucratic as all hell with their regs, but they're at least friendly about it.
When I got my passport checked back in the US, the fellow looks at my passport, notices the Chinese visa, and says "Welcome home" in this smug tone, as if to say "Aren't you glad you're back in the Land O' Freedom?"
I wont travel to the US specifically due to their 'border' control. I'm ex-forces and still get treated as a suspected terrorist, even though I spent 5 years trying to defend my country AGAINST terrorists.
Flying into Newark a couple of weeks ago and I have to say; TSA is a major joke. My solution. 15 megatons. That would do the trick. American idiots.
Btw... go metric, bastards.
It helps if you clarify that under Norwegian law you were only "convicted" of this offense implicitly by paying a FINE!
Unless you contested the claim and chose to have your day in court?! Small amounts of drugs for personal use only result in fines in Norway.
It's comcast fault for trying to buy nbc and make it cable only so no NBC, USA, Syfy, CNBC, MSNBC cable TV, Bravo, qubo, Telemundo, The Weather Channel, Hulu and Olympics on direct tv, dish, and many other cables system where comcast has there own. But they will say then can have them for a very high rate. Just like VS.
This is very standard for border checkpoints. We used to travel back and forth to Canada in the 70s and this would happen from time to time in both directions. It's just like some guy searching your luggage when getting off an airplane, which happens everywhere from time to time too.
It there to deter smuggling.
As to things changing since 1996, perhaps you didn't notice the US has had the Olympics since then? Since 9/11 even.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I'm not a US citizen. When I want to drive from Southern Ontario to Northwestern Ontario or vice versa I go through Michigan every time. I also many times go to the Lutsen ski area in Minnesota. Only one time had I a "problem". I was driving from London, Ontario having just picked up a car one relative inherited from another recently deceased distant sort-of relative (sort-of because of divorce). The car was still registered to the dearly departed. When I went across the Ambassador bridge they directed me to another stopping point. I got out there and they asked whose car it was. I explained it to them. They asked for proof that it was not stolen. I told them I didn't have any. They then let me go. It took about 3 minutes to cross the border that time. Every other time took about 15 seconds, not counting waiting in traffic. And I've travelled through with trailers and the vehicle packed with random boxes and furniture. I've moved apartments by going through the States. They never bothered to check any of the stuff.
About a year ago my brother and his girlfriend took the border bus (not sure what it is called) from Windsor to Detroit. She forgot all her ID. She had no passport, no driver's license, no ID of any kind. They got angry but let them both in anyway!
I have to wonder whether the IOC questioned the border policies of China before they gave them the green light for Beijing games.
It's almost funny how the pain in the ass measures dreamed up by politicos have no impact on security. A while back, there actually was an "I am a terrorist" check box on the little cards you have to fill in when you enter the US. Come on...
Do the guys who create those idiocies actually have to go through them, or is there a handy "i'm a politico" cut-through card ?
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
I'm not really a frequent visitor to the U.S., but I've been there a couple of times as a tourist and I can say, my personal experiences aren't that bad. The unfriendliest welcome was when I was entering by car from Canada about 20 years ago but even that wasn't so bad, just a little annoying. The last times I entered through Houston and Washington D.C. and the custom officers were friendly as have been most Americans we met (if not all).
About the Olympics, Chicago would probably be a great city for Olympics, but I wouldn't believe custom procedures to be a major factor in the decision. I rather believe it's about the first games in South America.
The USA really is a nice place. Our natural bits are wonderful and our people (in many places) are quite friendly to foreigners. Sadly we probably don't speak your language, unless it's English or Spanish, and you'll have to figure out what "miles" are if you want to use our roads.
We're sorry about our government's temper tantrum for the last eight years. Sadly in a large chunk of our country religious fanaticism passes for local color, and a segment of our political system has gotten pretty good at manipulating that to get votes. We're trying to fix that now but our government has trouble doing anything quickly or efficiently, partly because they're still scared of the fanatics. Hopefully soon we'll get the country fixed back up and in a state to receive visitors -- check back in a few years.
As unhappy as I am about the current immigration laws in America (my fluent-in-English, college-educated Japanese friend cannot live here, but an untrained Kenyan can because of their impoverished status, for instance), I anticipate that it will get better. Hispanic folk now outnumber blacks in America, and their population continues to explode. I can only hope that as their children grow up, they will have huge voting power, and surely they are pro-immigration.
I have to admit that getting through US Customs takes longer and is more stressful for me than any European country I've been to. Undoubtedly part of that is that we've all heard how nightmarish it can be... and just being afraid of that is enough to make the experience decidedly unpleasant, let alone when it actual gets bad.
We need to fix this, seriously. I want as much tourism cash in this country as possible.
Conspiracy theories aside, fingerprinting isn't all that bad, IMO. Japan now does it and the process is quick and painless. Besides, there's literally nothing to do with the fingerprints other than waste megabytes in some database of useless fingerprints that will never matter they are of people who don't live in the US. That said, Japanese customs agents are incomparably, perhaps infinitely nicer than US customs agents could ever even dream of on a nice day.
What you should be more worried about than fingerprints, that even I'm worried about as an America ncitizen, is the tearing apart your luggage because you've been randomly chosen as part of their non-terrorist-looking quota (to prevent racial profiling charges) and the confiscating (read: stealing) of your laptop, potentially exposing all of its confidential information.
I've studied and now work in the United States. I travel on an Indian passport. I've applied for visas three times and never had a problem and was always treated with courtesy. At customs I've never been treated disrespectfully, though once the person was surly. I would be too, if everyone and his brother was trying to get in and I had to sit there stamping 800 passports (About three international flights at the same time, in Dulles VA). Customs at DC airports is overworked, at Boston and Washington are friendly.
I've had to travel to Europe twice. Once to Germany and once to Denmark. The embassy staff were respectful and responsive, but it required peculiar paperwork, notably proof of health insurance during traveling including repatriation. Customs at Germany was friendly, at Denmark was surly. This year I'm going to Germany and again have to collect paperwork for the visa.
I've never really had problems anywhere, so I'm puzzled by the vitriol poured on the US border. I'm sure there is a wide range of personalities but in my experience I don't find that other countries in Europe are any better or worse.
http://movies.ndtv.com/images/PhotoGallery/kashmir/1.jpg
http://www.kashmir-houseboats.com/
http://www.onlinepot.org/hash/_derived/guide2hash.htm_txt_kasjmirpollem2.gif
Hooray! At last the strict border controls have a positive outcome, saving millions of taxpayer dollars and billions of man-hours of inconvenience from the craptacular olympics.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
It had to do with money and the fact that there has never been an Olympics held in South America.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
That will be the full BCS then?
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
What were those people even thinking! Have you seen Chicago? No thanks, Amerikkka.
Chicago is actually pretty cool, other than literally everyone there driving like a meth-addict maniac with a deathwish, and their bizarre Adam Smith-inspired freeways.
Rio is probably nicer overall, though. I haven't been there myself yet.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Terrorism or not, if it was easy to enter the USA, the scum of the earth would use the chance to immigrate illegally to the supposed land of the rich. Mexican drug bandits, every american knows about them, but there are many other hazards!
Canada already has the big plague of murderous and cleptomaniac eastern european gipsy. They are brown-skinned tribal people originating fron northern India thousands of years ago, literally descended (and degenerated) from the ancient arianian warrior race, but they now more like neanderthals due to excessive in-breeding amongst them. They are imported to Canada by liberal jewish troublemakers who ask for political asylum for them, claiming abuse in the Czech Republic and Hungary. Abuse is real, it is actually coming from the police, because they are legally required to relentlessly search and catch thieves, rapists and homicidors, who the gipsy are. They refuse to leave poor gipsy criminals alone.
If you want Amtrak crashes make sure it is easy to enter USA and the gipsy will come. They have a habit of stealing everything made of copper or brass and sell it for scrap metal: railway crossing electric signal cables feature prominently in their wishlist. They waste the money on game slot machines and drinks afterwards. Gipsy kids rob people in the streets with razor, gangs composed of 8 year olds are not afraid to attack a teenager twice the size, for shoes, handy or bicycle.
They fornicate when 12-13 year old and by 14 they have the first kid usually. An average gipsy woman has 6 kids from 4 different fathers before reaching 35 years of age (the last child is often fathered by the first-born son, yeah, total in-breading). Brother-sister sex (often rape) and pregnancy is common among the gipsy.
Genetically and physically handicapped infants are common among the gipsy, because they get social security support for invalids in Europe, so they alcoholize, inhale solvents while pregnant and beat the foetus in the head with a rubber-head hummer while in the womb to make him/her a retard. Deformed kids are also profitable for street begging, which is the favoured occupation of romanian gipsies.
There are over 10 million gipsies in eastern and central europe, all ready to invade your shores as soon as USA opens the door. Is it really worth winning the right for another Olympiad if it means letting shiploads of orcs land at Ellis Island? (Czech call the gipsy orcs because of their primitivity and love of violance, as well as obvious lack of bodily cleanliness. Most central european people would gladly exchange the gipsy population for black african people on an 1:1 basis or 1:5 for chinese immigrants. The chinese are diligent people and only commit crimes among each other, while gipsies are lazy and specifically target the european whites for crime.)
The canadian have already woken up, they re-instated visa requirement against the Czech Republic last month. A big diplomatic trouble, but necessary to protect civilization in Canada.
I think hmong man-eaters are enough trouble already for the USA, so keep your borders tight!
A majority of the world does not like the U.S.A. We certainly don't have a majority on that council that decides where the Olympics will be held... Americans need to get over themselves. At least those people in Chicago who were instantly enraged by this decision...We've fucked up a lot here in America, and are not liked by many other EU nations.
Security Theater:
Paper bag that may contain a bomb left on a chair, shut down and evacuate the airport and call bomb squad.
Bottle of liquid that may be explosive, put in bin with all the other 'explosive liquids' at the security station where all the people are.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
...at NY, was not that bad. The wait was really long and the inspecor quite nosy... Err, come to think of it the experience was not that good either. But they were at least polite and even friendly (in a well rehearsed way), which was not what I had learned I should expect.
On the other hand I've had aquintances exposed to all sorts of visa stupidities that would've belonged better in the dark ages. No I think I'll stay away from the US insofar as I can.
Either:
1. Send people behind the fascist curtain to the "windy city on the lake" known for the quality of its hot dogs and pizza and the resultant doughiness of the citizenry's bodies and a working-class, hard-scrabble mindset that created Al Capone and the whole snake pit of Neoconservative _real_ gangsters spawned by the "Chicago School" who have done such delightful things to the current world economy, or
2. Send people to a country that is an up-and-comer, welcomes tourists, knows how to show them a good time, and has world class ocean beaches, weather, and beautiful people of legendary reputation.
The second world corruption and violence are probably a wash in both cases at the level of the tourist experience. Downtown Chicago has always seemed very well policed but Rio presumably has experience dealing with their level of problems as well.
I thought Madrid had a chance but South America has had some good years lately and throwing them a bone at this time makes a lot of sense.
No. The US lost its bid because the world community would NEVER pass up the chance to poke the President of the US in the eye that way. It wouldn't matter who was President, the result would have been the same. Other Presidents have just had the sense not to put us in the same position.
This just shows how out of touch with world politics our current President is, that he would give them that opportunity. Duh.
Now living in Costa Rica and wanted to take my girlfriend to NY and Vancouver. US was relatively easy to get her a visa. Canada was not... they required original bank statements, property titles, etc... so she didn't get a visa. Ridiculous! I'm Canadian and ashamed of our visa policy.
Both these countries got the Olympics with very bad visa policies... Maybe US visa policy is brought up to cover the other problems such as the US shrinking international reputation...
New View Media - Custom Website Design
I've just returned from a week travelling in Europe based in Luxembourg.
I travelled into France, Belgium, Holland & Germany without even having to stop at the borders. Twice I had crossed the border and not realised it.
On the final day we decied to see if we could visit all 5 countries on 1 tank of fuel (150miles) on the bike.
There you go, 5 countries in 5 hours and you don't have to show your passport.
Here is an example of the opposite.
I visited the US (while working for a US Company) and got stopped at gunpoint because I was riding a British Registered Motorcycle. The Cop wanted to know where my 'state' tag was. Apparently there was some local law that made it an offence not to show one. A $250.00 fine later and I was released. I had my fingerprints & mugshot taken. I'm now a criminal in that state.
Guess why I won't be visiting the US ever again. I'm not an Alien. I don't come from some other planet but US Immigration & Customs seem to think that anyone from outside the US is a citizen of Plant Zog.
Hmmm....
Chicago hot no beaches, good pizza, but weve already done olympics in the US in 1980, 1992, 1996, 2002 plus now they have
screwed up passport control.
Madrid- Its pretty but in the summer its hot as heck...plus Europe already got the games 2004,2006, and 2012
Rio- Never gotten the games before and south america is culturally vibrant....holy crap did you see the hot brazillian girls in those string bikinis!
Get your laptop stolen, your credit details stolen, yelled at, forced to sign away your rights, extremely rudely treated and ass croncked and you won't much want to visit the land of assholes again. Not to mention the millions of people on no fly black lists and hundreds of millions with names similar to them. And not to mention that you are made to pay for this treatment and it's costs as the traveler in the new US "visa" system.
Bush and Bolton turned the system into one that is run by a bunch of sadistic, rude and sexist assholes. The land of fascist pigs is what USA is today. Never go there.
"International travel to the U.S. declined by 10 percent in the first quarter of 2009 according to the U.S. Department of Commerce. To lure visitors back, U.S. Travel has been pushing the Travel Promotion Act, which recently was passed in the Senate and is awaiting action in the House, to create a campaign to strengthen the image of the United States abroad."
The US has just announced a $10 fee that any visitor to the US must pay to enter the country. This is to be used to fund an internation publicity campaign. Putting two-and-two together, I assume this is the campaign that the fee is going to.
Draw footgun, fire!
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
We're not going to have the Olympics in the U.S. again, ever.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
As far as the olympic bid goes..... no loss.
Only those cities/sites which have EXISTING infrastructure to handle the oplympics should even bid. ie: Lake Placid NY. If it requires the building of one building, your disqualified. Why?
Look at all the places that build olympic venues and that don't use them for much of any thing else years, decades later.
Even better, pick two places and have the olympics in those two places, and quit wasting $/£/ etc. to build these facilities in new places, and use it for something else.
I vote that the winter games be held in Munich and summer in Sydney
As for the border control, did it have an effect, probably if the committee was comprised mostly of non US citizens.
As for the effectiveness of such controls... well the harder you squeeze the..... (you can look up the rest) its just like everything else being down at airports for "security" NOT the SOLUTION!
1311393600 - Back to Black
disclaimer: I'm in and from the States.
It sounds like you would like to do a lot of things here in the U.S. Each of those activities could take days, if not weeks. I would guess that the hassle you might receive entering (a few hours delay? LESS than the flight over) would be worth it for the experiences available to you once here. The cities, the diversity of people, the scenery (Niagra / Grand Canyon / etc.,) are all really amazing and quite accessible.
Yes, border crossing into the U.S., especially by air, can be "harrowing" sometimes - but the experiences can be very rewarding. Reconsider putting a trip over-the-pond back onto your to-do list.
Its entirely possible border issues were a consideration but I would hope that the committee also pondered Chicago's well deserved reputation as the most corrupt large municipal entity (New Orleans is most corrupt of any size) in the US.
I won't be going anywhere. I refuse to let my government have my fingerprints, in order to renew my passport.
Now tell me how many other government agencies or private employers and services have access to your fingerprints.
How you explain to your boss why you a) can't travel abroad or b) have been denied clearance to enter certain facilities?
and as long as the USA believes that everyone coming into the country is a terrorist (and treats them like one) things will never change. Another nightmare from the Dick and Bush show!
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
There goes the liberty to make money off the events here in the US because we couldn't sell ourselves over our paranoia. I wonder how long the safety will last as our debt keeps going up and up and up?
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
I expected Chicago to lose. After all the U.S. has been picked rather often lately - Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Salt Lake. We've hogged the Olympics enough. The REAL surprise is that Chicago was voted-off before Madrid, since Madrid was in violation of the unwritten rule - no olympics on the same continent twice in a row. I expected Madrid to be removed first. So Chicago must have really really fraked up.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I'm confused. Yesterday, I was told it was Obama's failure. Now you're telling me it's the fault of the post-9/11 policies of G.W. Bush. So it's Bush's fault. But 9/11 happened because Clinton didn't do enough to take out Bin Laden in the '90s. So it's Clinton's fault! Wait, wasn't Bin Laden originally pissed because of the US presence in Saudi Arabia during Gulf War I? So it's G.H.W. Bush's fault! Hold on... Didn't Bin Laden and the Mujahedeen get their training from the US in the '80s to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan? So it's Reagan's fault! Eh, to hell with it. Will somebody just tell me who to blame?
There, didn't think about that did you? Care about your enviroment, shoot crack.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
There have been reports which say that places like Atlanta are still paying for the olympics.
Remember that there is a HUGE lobby behind the olympic games and it makes a lot of people look very good, INCLUDING the press. Nothing they love more then being wined and dined at a special event where everyone just has to report from.
The actual economy of the olympics is in far greater doubt when you start talking to people who only have to deal with such simple things as paying for it.
Simplest effect: All hotels filled with tourists? Great or not? Not. Reason? Business people can't find a place to stay. Next year, the tourists are gone and so are the business people.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Have a few friggin bombs blownup in your backyard. I could care less if any of you want to see the beautiful USA
Of course it has been a factor.
As a non-US citizen I have experienced the frustration of long border controls in US and Canada
too many times, and from now on I will try my best to minimize them.
The Olympics is a celebration of peace and freedom. Please oh please no more overpoliced olympics!
So not really a short answer :)
Rio was the best for 3 reasons:
a) Infrastructure and preparation. Recall that they have two main events to organize within 2 years.
If the World cup is successful, no doubt they will organize an equally successful Olympics.
Even if it fails, they will have enough time to fix all the problems, which they will
have learned first hand, thus it is more likely they will absorb the lessons of failure.
b) Not a main target for terrorists etc. Face it, the US is a prime target and policing
events on the mainland is a nightmare. Also some countries are less likely
to be attacked simply because they have not pissed off as many people
as the US. So was Greece in 2004, and so will be Brazil in 2016.
c) Latin America. The Olympics should go there at some point ... and where
better than the magical city of Rio, in one of the most vibrant economies in the world?
According to LA Times (http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/index.php/bound-for-brazil-bew-5390/) it is nearly impossible to get a Visa from LA Consulate now! Big hassle and fees from other Brazil consulates which have their own rules and procedure for USA passport holders! Look for big windfall for Brazil consulates in Visa fees for 2016!
If cigarettes were illegal, you may have had a point. But they are legal. So I don't know what your point was.
Hop the southern border. When you get here you will never need to show documentation to get full government service. 20 million mexicans did it, so can you!
I refuse to even drive accross the border from Canada, and that crossing is relatively nightmare free. But going through their airport (in)security? Not a freaking chance. Those people have no conception of risk assessment, are totally isane and don't even know their own damned laws and policies. Not to mention the last thing I want is some high school dropout who can barely use their cellphone poking around in my laptop and accidentally deleting stuff in a vain search for files conveniently labeled "child porn.mpg" or "terrorist plot plans.doc".
Seriously folks - why the hell do you put up with this shit?
US starts their new Freedom Olympics in 3.. 2.. 1..
It is not just the olympics. International scientific conferences are tending to shy away from the US as well. I'm involved in the organization of three computer science conferences that traditionally alternate between North America and Europe. The North American Slots are ending up in Canada because it is to much of a hassle for the European participants to enter the US. I was at one conference in the US several years ago, and several of us were in the security lineup to leave the country, and one of my colleagues remarked to me, that "it just isn't worth the hassle anymore". Throw in the drama that happens if you happen to take a picture in public (omg a picture of a library or a hotel), and you have to wonder why anyone would visit the USA.
Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
Chicago lost because they offered a less attractive *package* then the others. They couldn't compete at several levels, which is good as the midwest really doesn't have the cash to spend on this with the economy the way it is.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Leif Ericson and Christopher Columbus landed on Turtle Island, but then were promptly displaced to their pestilent America. Speaking of countries that had nothing to do with the original landing parties, We conquistadors officially chopped them off the America train when the former America-centrals assisted in carving the Panama canal: ending further discussion of there ever being their assertion to have political autonomy interdependent to the military enclaves us Americans opened in their former front-yards. We have a southern America, and it's Texas and Arizona; haven't you ever heard of the 48 united States of America? Nope, Mexico and Canada aren't in America either. They tried to help re-create the North American union, but failed and were smacked-down when everyone heard about Bernanke escourting 800 million Silver & Gold Ameros through the Denver Mint to the Chinese Bank of Reconstruction to exchange their failing U$ 2.2 trillion funny money. The former America-southerns never had enough economic or intellectual merit to attempt a Souther American union as did conspire between the former America-centrals in Mexico and Canada.
How about the one that's only whispered? "No acts of war within memory of having received the Olympic 'OK'" ?
Requiem for the American Dream
I remember arriving in the USA back in 1996 for the first time in my life on a tourist visa. The welcome at the airport in San Francisco was new to me. I guess they try their best to be as stone faced as they can. It felt like I was on the wrong side of some fence. But I went in without any problem. It felt like I was crossing into a zone where I had lost my rights. It felt strange. But then, I'm french.
Clearly, the loss of this Olympic bid means that there is no point in maintaining control over national territory.
OPEN THE BORDERS NOW!!
Signed,
El Cucaracha
Seastead this.
If the USA wants to act like it is a different sort of multinational nation that is a kind of capital of the world, then it cannot arbitrarily bar people of that world from travelling to and from it.
This is my sig.
As I can see by the comments made here, I realize I'm not alone in thinking that the border control in the USA is outrageous and insulting. It happens that I recently visited the States (in fact, Chicago) and I was pretty close to not want to get into the country and flight back to Barcelona (Spain) just because of the way they were treating me and the way I was feeling: am I a thief, a terrorist?
I've been to the States three times, and every single one of them I've had to get to to Homeland Security and explain the reason of my trip. Once was because I was staying too long! I was visiting a friend and staying at her house for 7weeks which, apparently was not right :S
The last time, my mum had a lighter in the suitcase. They told us she couldn't keep it. Why? Because it was rechargeable... wtf?? Am I not allowed to get 100ml into bottles on the plain? Why not a lighter?
I don't even wanna talk about the fact that they have the *right* to break through your baggage even if that means they have to break it! ARGGG it happened this to me on this very trip! And I could not protest!
Well, I think I made my point...
It'll probably take a long time to me to get back to the states, there are plenty of places to get where I'll be treated properly ( note: I'm not talking about the american citiziens themselves, who happen to be very welcoming and friendly).
Damnshock
I can't see how liberals say that Bush was against freedom when they first argued away the enumerated powers doctrine of the constitution, then, argued away half of the bill of rights, then argued in favor of increased regulation in all regards, and confiscatory taxation, and suddenly, wow, Bush is the bad guy. Even now, the liberal agenda is going to be enslave much of the country to pay for health insurance for those who are not competent enough to get it for themselves, will effectively place taxes on the fundamental right of building a fire, will disarm a law abiding populace ... but they are the party of freedom?
Seriously, Bush was an asshole for doing the travel restrictions, but Dems ran in 2006 on implementing ALL of the TSA recommendations and that included a national ID card for everyone. Bottom line is, anyone looking to Dems to increase their freedom is a total retard. The most practical way to get more freedom is to gut the federal government.
This is my sig.
At this time Canada relies on trade with the US, but if they were smarter, and thought more long range, they wouldn't need to at all. They could be completely independent on energy and (most) manufactured goods and agriculture, then they would have the luxury of charging heavy premium prices for any exports, because they really wouldn't need exports then, nor much in the way of imports. Plus they could ignore all that border crossing nonsense for the most part. It is potentially the richest nation on earth per capita if you take their low population and compare it to land mass and available natural resources, including the largest amount of freshwater. They just need to diversify even more then they are now and stop selling off all their resources at sub wholesale rates for short term profits like some third world poverty stricken developing nation. They could go high end and develop the best quality this or that manufactured thing, and not even try to compete at the low range. If they don't watch it, they will become just a colony to be exploited by the US and China for all that wealth. They are half way there now as it is.
The Olympic games in London will take place mostly in East London, an area famous for its gangsters and low lifes of all kinds.
The idea is that by hosting the games in that area they will be an incentive to regenerate it, creating new jobs and businesses and replacing ugly industrial areas with liveable areas and sporting facilities.
This has worked, with varied degrees of success in other venues, for example the are around the Olympic Stadium in Barcelona is now a tourist attraction, before the Olympics it was a very ugly neighbourhood that you wanted to avoid by all means.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is all great and dandy that you quote Montreal (as all the Olympic gemse haters do) conveniently forgetting to mention that most cities have benefitted enormously since then.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I am from Germany and I didn't give Chicago the smallest glimpse of a chance.
cb
Sorry 'bout that. Silly spell checker.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
...and who the hell modded you up? Are you really arguing Chicago is "twice" as safe as Rio? Yay Chicago, only three times the national average.
Homicide rates, 2006, per 100,000 people:
Singapore: 0.39
Japan: 0.44
Norway: 0.71
Netherlands: 0.78
Germany: 0.88
Italy: 1.06
UK: 1.37
Australia: 1.42
Canada: 1.80
China: 2.36
United States: 5.7
...if Chicago was sent packing first as a clear message. The committee probably doesn't want every nation sending notables to try and sell their city of choice. Did Oprah and Obama do more damage than good for Chicago?
The Olympic games in Atlanta are generally cited as some of the worst in all history.
The over commercialism, failure of public transport (including athletes and officials being delayed for their competitions) and plain going around IOC's commercial interests left the IOC very hurt (and Samaranch, the IOC's President at the time, was in Copenhagen to remind everybody of that when promoting Nadrid's bid).
As for Salt Lake City winter Olympics, there was a corruption scandal, that led to a wide reform in the IOC.
Add to that the asinine US immigration policies, a very capable bid from Rio de Janeiro (including Brazil's President spending lots of time promoting Brazil's bid) and the result is not so surprising.
What baffles me is how meretricious so many people in the US are in regards to President Obama trying to help with Chicago's bid, all the other countries sent their heads of government (and in the case of Spain, also the head of state) to help with the bid, 4 years ago Tony Blair, former UK's Prime Minister, was widely credited with having helped with London's bid. That so many US people are blaming President Obama for Chicago's failure just show how pathological politics have become in the US....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
A few days ago on a midwestUS hillbilly radio station I heard someone proclaim that Rio was in Argentina. It's a demonstrable fact that most Americans know practically nothing about South America. (or anyplace else for that matter, but this continent seems to be represented by a higher than usual level of ignorance) This was pointedly brought up to me by someone I met in Juiz de Fora a few months ago. Apparently he was impressed I even knew the capital of his country. Here's to hoping that if nothing else, the 2016 Olympics will teach a few American kids that Rio de Janeiro is in fact a city in Brazil.
Wow, what an amazing display of hogwash.
But just in case someone reads this and thinks there is some substance to it, the first half sentence already has an egregious mistake, as does the subject.
1) Columbus never set foot on what is now the continental USA, he only visited the Antilles, and parts of Central and South America.
2) The name America comes from the latinization of the name of Amerigo Vespucci (i.e., Americus Vespucius), an Italian cartographer who first mapped the East coast of South America. He never set foot in Noth America. Thus, the earliest known map that contains the name "America" (by Martin Waldseemuller, 1507) places that label right in the middle (actually towards the south) of South America. How the present-day country ended up with that name is actually amazing.
with the fact that you have already hosted them twice in the last twenty five years?
does any one remember what the Olympics is about, we have no business being in the running, we are at war, and the city that was picked is a war zone, children are killing children.
Billions of our money invested in infrastructure that will only be needed for the games and then be of little or no benefit thereafter. The cost of which won't even be covered by the tourism spend, those little bits of the spend that do make it to the local economy after Nike, McEvil and Coke have evicted all the local retailers and food outlets because they are the sponsors and have paid for their right to feck all the local businesses.
Yeah, just what we need in the middle of an economic problem, tell you what, why don't we just throw our tax money in the Thames and let it wash out to sea?
But you are right about the pollution, the diesel generators that GE ship round the world to power the Olympics to ensure that they don't rely on the local grid will be great for our air pollution, it will make up for years of us reducing it with our congestion charge!
I'm a Canadian and due to work, I travel frequently between US and Canada.
I don't really have any problem traveling through the border; BUT I was once traveling with my brother (Same mother / father / last name)
The Canadian Border Patrol actually asked me a really tough question:
CBP: "Who's this traveling with you?" .... (speechless)
Me: "My brother"
CBP: "How do you know him?"
I actually didn't know how to answer this question. Do I know my brother through my mother? But then, they may ask me, how do I know my mother?
Has someone mentioned that foreigners have NO rights in the US? Even if you are lucky and they let you in, that doesn't mean you have gained any rights whatsoever. This means foreigners have no habeas corpus, there is no telling your embassy, no call, no nothing. As a foreigner they can detain you and you've disappeared without anyone knowing what happened.
That could also have been in the minds of the COI.
I was so excited for the prospect of having the Olympics in Chicago. One of the venues was literally just going to be across the street from my condo. But if you look at the bid details on Rio's site (http://www.rio2016.org.br/en/) and Chicago's site (http://www.chicago2016.org/). Rio's was more complete - and more honest about what they need to do.
Most notably to me, Chicago failed to address transit improvements. Transit plans have been critical in recent past Olympic bids. Venues are far apart. There needs to be a fast and efficient way to get from venue to venue. Rio promised a new high speed train linking all of the venues. You could go from beach volleyball to basketball in 30 minutes or less on a modern, efficient train.
In Chicago, there's no proposal for improving the decrepit state of Chicago's train systems. In fact, they actually had the nerve to claim that the atrocious Amtrak service is actually an asset (http://www.chicago2016.org/our-city/transportation/rail.aspx).
Chicago transit is horrible. Some of the train lines are over 100 years old. It's not good enough for the Olympics.
As it is, traffic grinds to a standstill on surface roads and train platforms crowd to dangerous levels when smaller events like the 4th of July or the Taste of Chicago food festival occur. The Olympics would dwarf anything that Chicago has ever seen. It would be a traffic (and security) nightmare. And they largely ignored it and ignored suggestions from people like myself who tried to make that and other suggestions.
I am German resident and i have visited the US pre 9/11 multiple times for Business and for Vacation. I have not been to the US since the entry required giving Fingerprints. I have even refused to go in my Job and i'll never ever go to the US as long as i am treated as a criminial. Europe, Australia
and Africa are also nice targets to go on Vacation.
I am not welcome - so i'll not visit the US ...
You have to get finger printed in Tokyo as well. I think the difference is the TSA gives people from areas of interest the third degree.
Sounds logical? That's at least what the Senate thinks: Travel-Promotion-Act
The US is already seen as responsible for new machine readable passports and biometric features in the passport. Tourists are questioned, fingerprinted, and photographed at the border, and airlines have to transmit personal passenger data.
The fee doesn't add much to the cost of a US visit, but on top of all the other things: Being treated that way, and paying a fee for it? There are other places to go.
That's the climate in Europe right now. The EU is considering an entry fee for Americans. This fee hasn't been big news in the US and Obama might not even have been briefed on what he walked into in Copenhagen.. but the only other country I can remember charging an entry fee was Eastern Germany.
We'll just have our own olympics, but with blackjack, and hookers.
On second though, forget about the blackjack and the olympic parts...
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
We need to institute stricter racial profiling. I'm sorry that it isn't politically correct but forms of profiling are currently tolerated and embraced by the insurance industry so why not extend profiling to the realm of airport security and customs where it makes most sense. Males are inconvienenced with higher car insurance rates and the unhealthy are forced to pay higher rates for health coverage, so why not ask certain risky demographics to spend a little extra time with the customs agent.
Mr Pakistani IOC member, please take one for the team and resist your selfish bitching; the rest of us don't need to wait in line so long.
It came as a first thought: how would they manage handling thousands athetes from any world's country through the airport border at KORD for example? Treating friends and foes as criminals, taking fingerprints, growling arrogant questions, seizing electronic devices, breaking private life and intimacy in laptop's files and folders, saving life and records of anyone, innocent or not, in their federal databases, all that after hours queuing and filling forms.
And then: a faulty answer, or sneezing and looking left during the questioning, or maybe a couple unpaid car parking fines back at home and you're lucky if you're sent back on the first plane. All this in the positive and friendly spirit of the Olympics?
No. I'll rather risk Rio.
America was the progressive style of the countries that have always been North of the equator, not the pillaged tribes that the explorers surveyed for the pope and his/it's conquistadors.
Turtle Island is the geographic plane for which the northern tribes were domiciled in their tents and huts, not the sodomite voodoo ethnicities central and south of the equator where plantations were revealed to raise product cheaper for the import to the provinces back around Spain, Iberia, and further Hermania.
It was never the cause of the pope and the colonial powers to raise freeholds for the politic south of the equators to civily produce an international presence: they are no different than factories, and now--a bunch of sloths in the streets of their former captors and masters, continuing on in their superstitions and barbarism of non-productive behaviour if it weren't for the presence of United States corporations outsourcing to them for cheaper labor and subvert the politic of America.
And I got news for you: America may have been 1492, while the United States may have been 1754 and then re-associated to incorporation in 1776, but the Several states among Turtle Island before America in inherint in the exploration of the Knights Templar to landmark against Turle Island for America to carve it's entrance and later the Illuminati bifurcative 48 united States of America from the Continental United States.
You haven't a clue where you stand, because you have read the books given you by certified government education, while ignoring the non-catalogued books in the Library of Congress over near the city of Washington in Columbia -- you know, the 10-mile quartered area after masonic affections, after Spainish assent of the commonwealths Virgin**/Mary****, where the Admiralty of the re-organization and incorporation to non-plural United States exists and roosts.
Could it possibly be that Rio won rather than the USA losing it?
I can't help but think along the lines of... if I were an IOC member and had to choose between watching beautiful Brazilian women wearing thong bikinis on the beach, or getting robbed and beaten up or shot in the face in downtown Chicago, the vote would be a no-brainer.
Janiero? WTF!
that there aren't enough of them - whoever's in charge of the dept just isn't putting enough resources into guys in booths. The other problem is that the US runs all transit passengers though there too, wasting the immigration people's time - visit a real airport, say Hong Kong, arrive on your way somewhere else there's no paper work no guys stamping passports, just go through the transit security point upstairs to your departure gate. Not so in the US - you have to spend 2 hours going through immigration even though you're just there while your plane refuels - sometimes it leaves without you. Everywhere else in the world has sealed departure gates that are a sort of diplomatic no-man's land and a procedure for leaving the country - you present your passport as you go, they log you out of the country and you get it stamped, in the US they depend on the airlines getting it right - no wonder people can come to the country and disappear - some of them actually left (this is actually a somewhat common problem - people come BACK to the US to visit and are denied because they 'overstayed' the first time - while they left on time but have no way to prove it because there's no such thing as a US exit stamp in your passport)
Coming into China at 5:45 AM or 11 PM, I have never had to wait for immigration officers to get to their stations; officers are ready any time passengers are arriving. Contrast that to the last time I entered the US - September 14th, 2009 at LAX on NWA flight 002. The entire plane - a full 747-400 with 403 passengers - had to wait for 40 minutes until 9 AM, when immigration officers finally started their shift. And we then queued into line while the officers strolled out one at a time, took 5-10 minutes to get their station ready, then started processing.
China worse than US? Not by a mile. The US simply sucks in terms of immigration, even for US citizens. But as a US citizen, I've come to expect nothing less of any Federal employee or department; we citizens exist to serve and support them, not the other way around!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
As a US citizen, going into the Netherlands this year was very enjoyable. Entering the UK was OK, although clearly a lot of people from Pakistan and Africa were being forced to sit around and wait for something (perhaps visas, I wasn't about to ask).
Entering the US has sucked every time. Either 1) you get yelled at or 2) things are totally unorganized, huge lines form, and no one is there to organize them.
I am just embarrassed every time I come back to the US by our customs operations.
So, Chicago was spared an expensive boondoggle. It won't have to shovel its homeless off the street just before the Olympics. It won't have to deal with corrupt IOC officials or drug-addled athletes.
Speaking as a life-long Chicagoan I don't really care what the reason was. I'm just glad the games won't be held here. The benefits of holding the games are questionable at best. What is certain is that it would be the biggest source of graft and corruption for friends of Mayor Daley and the Chicago Democratic Machine since the opening of O'Hare. The city hasn't completed a single public works project on time and on budget in decades, and this would surely be a financial disaster that would run into the billions. And it would be up to folks like me to bankroll it, since, unlike the other candidate cities, Chicago did not have federal assistance or sponsorship. If you think the IOC cares one whit about passport control or swamping the locals with debt then I have a bridge to sell you...
>I mean, which law I might have breaking for taking three months off work?
In the United States, the concept of taking three months off of work is inconceivable. The idea of taking a full two weeks off is borderline lunacy. The idea of taking a whole week off is borderline fantasy.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
It could also be the outright theft too. My in-laws are Chinease and not once have they managed to visit without something going missing in their (security) checked luggage. You can bet the government paid thieves at O'hare International would be living large in the event of an Olympics there. The IOC made a good call in my opinion.
Its interesting that all this blame is being put on the US, our culture, warmongering, Passport control, Obama, Bush, whatever, but the more I read about it, the more it sounds like the US bid failed because the USOC just failed and the tone of the Administration's pitch was wrong.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/sports/04usoc.html
In the lead up to the vote, there were killings in Chicago, fights over the Olympics, corruption over the Olympic bid, and just flat out Chicago style politics. Besides, Chicago in August, not where I want to be. New York and Chicago are poor choices for US Olympic pitches. LA, the Bay Area, Seattle or Denver would be better choices for Olympics in the US. LA showed how to make a profit from the Olympics, Seattle would show that mix of new and old industry and in a great place to live, Denver would show the frontier spirit that made the US and the glory of a modern sprawl ;).
And you wonder why we don't want public healthcare?
They have embezzled money from the Social Security funds and Medicare to the point that they are broken Ponzi schemes.
Made flying within & without the US a massive hassle
"Sealed" and "confidential" court documents are suddenly opened when one is a nuance to a favored candidate.
And yet somehow Europeans are confused when we disagree with the idea that they should take over healthcare and have total control of our medical records.
i find this comment not only most confusing but also ineloquent and otherwise desering of scorn (did i get to the limit yet on the fil ter?)
than japan and brazil. now we just settle
USA and UK are checking whether you are a patriot in their border checks. This is not the case in Japan. And I believe Patriotism is Oxymoron in Globalization.
Slashdot = Sarcasm
I fully agree
I have been to the US several times since 1980.
Alas I wanted to do some sightseeing when time and money allows, as many of the fellow posters here.
But until these rigorous Orwellian schemes are dismissed - it is a strict vote with the feet: aint going there again.
So it is less a slap for Obama, but a slap in the face for Homeland Security!
The real reason the U.S. lost the Olympics is our mistreatment of Mexico and Mexicans. The 9/11 thing can't be blamed since all Western nations are under threat. With the U.S. the real problem is the millions of "illegal aliens" from Mexico and the promise of the Obama admin. to give them amnesty, which a hardcore minority of white supremacists will do anything to stop, like they already did with the Bush admin., with sanctimonious big brains pontificating about overcrowding as a cover story. Right now they try to drown out debate by shouting "illegal" every time they can, as if that settles it. Amnesty of course means they will be made legal, which they don't want. The whole situation causes foreigners to look at the U.S. as a white supremacist hellhole on the verge of violence that doesn't want any foreign visitors who aren't white.
It's too bad that we try to sort Mexicans living into the U.S. into legals and illegals when there are so many, plus the fact that they're not "aliens" from overseas, but our next-door neighbors like in Canada. The U.S.-Mexico border is the result of 160 years of de facto apartheid of brown-skinned people foisted back in 1848 when half its territory was taken by force for the whites-only homeland, leaving Mexico permanently crippled and doomed to dependence, and now that white supremacy is kaput the legacy remains, stinking the U.S. up, witness the Olympics snub.
The answer all along has been to end the apartheid by having Congress officially invite the entire Mexican people to join the U.S. as 10+ new states sans the corrupt Mexican federal govt., allowing it to finally be developed and emerge from the Third World. The U.S. will gain 760K sq. mi. of new territory and a more defensible seabound border, but must accept the Mexican peoples' existence along with a bilingual nation. To me it's a no-brainer, and should be started immediately. I've thought it all out and call it the Megamerge Dissolution Solution, take time to read it and help me entice the Obama admin. into working for it so we can finally end the age-old problem and become a model for the world.
To read it, click http://go.to/megamerge
I applied for a Chinese visa for my British passport in Bangkok and got it the same afternoon. On arrival their was no more security than you'd get for a domestic flight, and I wasn't asked a single question during the whole process. Go China.
What bogus nonsense. I travel to the US frequently from Europe and even from India - the passport checks while rigorous are no more than an inconvenience. The twaddle written here implies they take you into a room and interrogate you like in the movies. Passport control into Brazil, at least via Miami, is also pretty strict. But again it is a minor convenience rather than some major effort. Perhaps the toughest border crossing is arriving in the UK from outside the EU. Then they really scrutinize you. I would expect nothing less from countries in the modern world given the terrorist threat. Chicago lost the Olympic bid - the efforts of the Dark Doofus notwithstanding because America has had the games several times. Spain and Japan have also hosted the games. South America has not, and anyway Rio is one of the most beautiful cities in the world which is an added bonus. Everyone has anecdotal stories about how bad US border guards are,but I have as many stories about other places I have traveled to: Singapore, Russia, China and countries in Africa. Of course, once you are in the EU moving from one state to another is easy, but try flying into the EU - say Spain - from some unusual country like Yemen. They detained me for 4 hours while they checked my background which is Canadian - and finally I have even been detained by Canadian border guard for several hours after flying in from India via Frankfort.
olympics have been held: 30 times in europe, 5 times in asia, 2 times in oceania, 15 times in north america 8 of those in the US. It has never been in south america .......
That's what I said, they are exporting raw materials to the US and china at chump change prices and neglecting future generations and even the current ones. It's a bad trend I saw many years ago and the trend is increasing, they have the ability to reverse that now.
They have gone out of their way to make themselves a colony for the US and now China for exploitation. They do it a lot, example, lobbying furiously at the wto for softwoods exports, when they could be using that wood more internally, or at least working it into higher end products, even beyond finished lumber. Develop that stack better, don't just ship off raw wood so much. A for instance: Harsh climate in the winter, they could be the world's leader in developing superinsulated thick walled and roofed homes, like four feet thick. They have simply gigantic, tremendous energy potential, they could be the world's leader in developing cold climate mass scale year round farming with vastly improved greenhouse design with geothermal and windpowered and hydroelectric and fission adjunctive heating and lighting. Oil, they could be sitting on their reserves for a longer time and using them to develop internally, not exporting raw crude by the tanker full. They are so wealthy in natural resources they have the theoretical ability to sit on these raw resources more, and basically use them internally for a longer period, for further value added wealth creation, which has a profound and dramatic wealth multiplier effect when it is taken several logical steps forward. They do it *some* now, and have success, so I suggest they do it *a lot more* and expand the success in that direction as the TOP emphasis.
Raw resources are indeed a saleable item, and if you have enough you can still be well off, witness the gulf states who make hardly anything much, just sell raw oil, then using that to build luxury cities, which will eventually collapse once that oil runs out because that's all they do. They've been stupid, generationally short sighted, and lazy. Oh well, we'll just pump oil now for whatever we can get and look, we are making billions! Yes, that's true, eventually though it will not be true, then they got *bupkis*. Anyone can see that, it is *by far* the easiest of futurist trends to see.
Now think besides oil, all the minerals and metals, the biologicals, the weater, the wind, all the possible resources...USE them, don't just dig them up and export them, USE those things more. Work that stuff VERTICALLY as far as possible, then kick it another notch higher, and again.
The *combination* of raw resources into manufactured goods and in advanced services is where it is at for valued added wealth creation.
Look at Japan where despite them having to import everything,like 98% "everything*, they still manage to create vast amounts of wealth by being masters in this combination of raw resources. Imagine this Japanese model of value added and compounded wealth creation IF they *also* had internally the vast raw resources that Canada has, and didn't need to import as much raw materials and energy. That could be Canada, if they CHOSE to be.
Canada has way more of a policy that reflects early centuries thinking where stopping at the *first* level of wealth creation seems to be one of the primary driving economic trends today. They have HUGE potential, they DO manufacture a lot of items, some are very good, what I am saying is they should expand on THAT and head for the high end ultimate *quality* markets, starting internally, (you want to be richer, right?) and not bother with the low end cheapest possible razor thing margins markets that other nations clearly have an advantage in, and will, because of vastly cheaper monkey labor, more monkey labor in the terms of numbers of hands, and a workforce willing to live in hovels and be near serfs. No sense even trying to compete there, so don't bother. You don't want that, you want better quality of life and a higher wealth to capita rati
But with your policies i'm not stepping one foot in your country, random searches, the fact you can search my laptop or even confiscate it on a whim, not to mention the fingerprinting.... screw that, i'll stick to the rest of the world with a more friendy face.
In Soviet Zippthornia you tax the government?
Being that, the less government taxes you, the more money you have - which is again not taxed.
So you and other untaxed citizens soon own all of the money in the country, means of production and resources.
Two more questions.
1. Where is that lovely communist utopia?
2. Karl Marx, is that you?
Governments will always tax its citizens. If not in form of money, then in the form of "voluntary service".
As we do not yet posses the means to see the future - there will always be a calculated overhead in those taxes.
As costs are really unpredictable it is usually spent, but when we do get to see it we call that a sufficit.
Government will always take as much money it can from its citizens. That money will be spent.
Money (not)spent on projects such as Olympic games would not be left to the citizens.
Instead of Olympics (or other cultural and infrastructural advances and projects), it would be spent on things like Acapulco seminars for government officials and nuclear submarines.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Not a Brit, but a Bosnian here.
Born, raised and all the other stuff that goes after that.
During which time I've had me my share of British TV programmes though, particularly the ones of humorous nature.
Which is where I have picked up that particular expression - as uttered by Hugh Laurie in the final episode of Blackadder Goes Forth, commenting on Rowan Atkinson's comparison of imperialistic and expansionist tendencies of British and German leaders during the World War I.
As an unexpected side effect of all that cultural indoctrination, whenever I start "thinking in British" the little voice in my head that does the thinking for me invariably turns either into John Cleese's, Rowan Atkinson's or Hugh Laurie's voice - with expected consequences.
Sadly, what little there was of Doctor Who on local television was aired during the period of my youth when I was still unable to distinguish English from say.. Greek, so Tom Baker never did made it into that small but influential group of British voices in my head.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Oh, and it is so damn easy for an American to enter Pakistan?
When in the United States Officials of other countries ought to get the same treatment that American's get there. Oh, wait a minute, that would be immoral. Because in many parts of Pakistan they hunt down and kill American's.
The reason that Chicago lost is because they are a morally currupt political dictatorship of the worst sort.
- I want to host the Olympic Games.
- OK. Why?
- I would love people from all places in the world to come and bring a lot of money there.
- How do you feel about foreigners coming to your country?
- I'm terrified by them, TV says the world out there is full of evil terrorists and dirty immigrants who are going to destroy this country if we let them do so. We should put all of them in quarantine before entering our borders. Pesky aliens!
- OK, sir. Don't call us, we will call you. Next!
Or the TV series QI (and Dr Basil Cottle) might claim it comes from "Richard Amerike" who owned the ship "Matthew" that landed in North America in 1497 (John Cabot's voyage).
I have been to the US once, in 2003 - so after the Twin towers. On waiting for our luggage at Chicargo a sniffer dog took interst in one of my travelling companions. The security officer with it asked her if she had fruit. She said that she had eaten an apple on the flight. A form was presented that compelled her through a special security channel, which as we were one party we all went through. No explanation was given but they intended to fingertip search all through our luggage, irrespective of the time we had available to meet our connecting flight to Denver. Made a lasting impression that - more interested in contraband fruit than bombs - which would have at least had my support. I also remember an unsettling request made on flight to fill in the ( whatever it was ) form needed to get through passport control carefully " as you will encounter problems if even a small mistake is made ".
I'm 33, I remember my parents paying with cheques when I was a little kid. I received one from an aunt when I was 18, specifically so that I could have the experience of caching a paper cheque at least once in my life. I haven't seen one since, but I hear you can still technically use them as a method of payment.
I have not been to the US since the introduction of its id/facist-checkpoint/visa requirements. In the past I have skied there for months, always enjoyed it there, and it is an easy stopover for me. US travel no more for me!
I have also travelled to Rio - and it is the only place I have ever been mugged - but I would still go back. Hopefully they can clean up the pestulent beaches where the sea is loaded with desease...
Happy moony
>> "the sometimes rigorous entry process for foreigners, which they see as a deterrent to tourism"
Rigorous? Is that the word you choose?.. wtf's up with you? It's bloody harassment and outright disrespect for human rights, that 's what it is!
You'll have to explain to us who the "crazy fuckers" are. Because I seem to remember it was a group of mostly Saudi's who happened to be fundamentalists (notice how I separate the two?!) that decided it would be a good idea to hijack our airplanes and ram them into our buildings.
You don't know that. You know that a group of mostly Saudis did ram three planes into three buildings. You don't know who decided that it would be a good idea. The investigation was cancelled partway into the initial phase.
Speculating on who decided is simply blowing hot air. For all you know, it could have been a false flag op or planned by Xe (formerly Backwater). All 2-bazillion pages of the Patriot Act were all ready to go and just waiting for an emergency, so there are more suspects than just some Saudis.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
The financial "business" of London was even further in the hole than the US wallstreet boys and needed an almost entire 100% level GDP new poof created cash injection to keep from going bankrupt. because it is unsustainable, or it wouldn't have needed this fast inflationary stealth tax injection. Here's a graph/link from the BBC yesterday about it. Someone has to do the real work in the world,you can't eat or drive or live inside electrons, and when it is increasingly not your own nation doing the real work of wealth creation, you have to resort to emergency accounting tricks, which merely delay the inevitable full collapse. The UK killed off manufacturing faster than the US, shipping it off for chump change for the fast buck, and that's why they got nailed even harder. It's directly proprtional how this happens.
That old model is unsustainable, completely proven last year and this year, it just doesn't work, but that business model and those gents is what we have right now "by law" in many western nations. They *should* have been allowed to fail and collapse so we can get this sorted out better. Hate to flog that old tired mule, but there's no free lunch, you must have domestic manufacturing. That's the number #1 method of having value added wealth creation. You can't create wealth with the printing press or just changing server entries. You can keep the people faked out domestically for a little longer doing that, but not the whole world, you have to actually do real work to create real wealth. Who is sitting on surplus and who isn't? Who are the big debtors and the big creditors now? Look how much this has changed over the last thirty years. The manufacturing world, primarily china, is the big creditor, followed by japan, the other big manufacturer. The oil rich states have that too, surplus, but they are mining "fossil wealth" (I do hereby claim this new financial term), and it will get exhausted eventually. They've been blowing it for three generations now on massive luxuries purchases, busywork mc government jobs, and buying foreign made goods and importing foreign serf laborers to do construction and menial tasks. That can't go on forever, only as long as they can pump out fossil wealth.
So them investing in just more proven failed business models is not a smooth move either, those oil rich states doing that are just grasping at straws now, because they are stuck with poof created money, a cultural mindset of anyone but them does the real work, and need something to do with their fossil mined and now accumulated cash, and are furthering their own domestic collapse when their oil runs out, because they have never bothered to even try and do manufacturing or anything else with their fossil wealth. Some of them are investing in farmland in Africa, like China is also doing with surplus poof created money, because at least a few sixty watt bulbs there in those nations realized they will have to eat all the time, that *might* work longer range until such a time the locals decide once again that they don't like being the exploited colony, and they want to own it back. mau mau version two will happen, with many foreigners becoming lunch and so on....
Some are investing in solar power, etc., and the saudis and I think one of the emirates are making noises this week about wanting their own nukes now,but none of it is a substitute for manufacturing and agriculture, which are the two main ways to actually create *value added compounded wealth*, and that act as economic force multipliers inside an economy. Yes, you need energy production for that, but it is only the first step, you need to keep climbing that ladder to develop the vertical stack.
Wealth is grown, mined, harvested, extracted and then if needs be manufactured from the combination of the above. Everything else is wealth rearranging, wealth governance, wealth entertaining, yada yada, basically just wealth dilution. Some wealth dilution and rearrangement
Where? Do any of these exist along the relatively-populated Quebec/New England border, or only in the middle of nowhere (Montana, North Dakota, etc.)?
Little Mexico's, little China's, little Vietnam's, little Japan's.
If we're going to require people in this country use proper English, can we start with you? As Dave Barry once said, "An apostrophe does not mean, 'Look out! Here comes an S!'" Hell, that's not even a complete sentence.
No, see, it's impossible that Rio won, and the US sure as hell didn't lose! See, here in the US, we know that:
1) We're #1 at everything
2) We never lose
Ergo, Rio must have cheated.
Yes, I know about the theory of Richard Amerike as the origin of the name America, but to be frank with you it seems as historical revisionism by people who refuse to accept a non-Anglo-centric view (much like the AC that I replied to and the one that also replied to my post, pretty sure they are the same).
I think the Wikipedia entry on Amerik summarizes that theory in a fairly complete way. (Of course, being Wikipedia we must tae it with a grain of salt, but still). You will notice that Amerik's involvement is fairly minor, and unlikely to justify the naming of a continent after him.
In particular look at the second-to-last paragraph of that section, which explains why Waldseemuller would have used the name "America" in his map, according to the Amerik theory.
It basically says that the name of Amerik may have appeared in Cabot's maps (something impossible to prove since the maps don't exist any more), and Amerigo Vespucci may have seen those maps and thus used that name in his documents. Documents in which, by the way, his name would appear as Americus Vespuccius since at the time official documents, at least for the Spanish and Portugese crowns, were always written in Latin (and thus Cristoforo Colombo appeared as Christophorus Columbus -- ever wondered why the country is called Colombia and not Columbia?). America is the feminine for of Americus? Oh, just a coincidence, then.
Furthermore, Waldseemuller, (who used Vespucci's documents to produce his famous map and featured him prominently with a portrait at the top, labeling him Americi Vespvciii), may have thought mistakenly that Vespucci used the word America due to his own name, since Vespucci said nothing on the contrary.
All this in a theory concocted in 1908. Quite frankly there are too many mays in a theory that tries to explain how the name of a minor character got on the main piece of solid evidence (Waldseemuller's map), furthermore on the least related side of the map (South vs North America). By Occam's Razor I'm far more inclined to believe the simple theory: he placed the name America there because Americus/Americi was apparently the first cartographer that discovered (or at least confirmed) that the new lands were indeed a separate continent and not part of Asia as some thought. He placed the name down there because, well, those are the lands Vespucci charted, and he used the feminine form because all the known "continents" had feminine names in Latin.
Let me guess: you are the same delusional soul to whom I replied originally. At least you have similarly twisted ideas full of misconceptions and expressed in the same bizarre language, full of grammatical inconsistencies. As the original message, yours makes very little sense. And most of what makes any sense at all is, well.... wrong.
Given the absurdity of the messages and the way they are written I suspect that you suffer from a mild mental impairment, so trying to reason with you is most certainly futile. So I just wanted to comment on one thing you said:
You haven't a clue where you stand, because you have read the books given you by certified government education, while ignoring the non-catalogued books in the Library of Congress [...]
Sooooo..... you based your "knowledge" on "facts" that are supposedly registered in some obscure books that are "hidden" in the Library of Congress in order to perpetuate some obscure political agenda. Any similarity to several Hollywood movies is pure coincidence... (Dude! You are living in a movie script! Awesome!)
But the books are not catalogued! That means that you have not read them either, so you know all this from hearsay, and thus the credibility is... quite low...
(I know, I know, you know all that because you are The Master Librarian of The Library of Congress, yada yada yada... Sure, whatever makes you happy.)
who has a eastern european passport
we had to go to NYC and visit the embassy in advance of the flight-I think pay 32$
and get a visa in her passport-- just to change planes...
check the list
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/doineedvisa/visadatvnationals
"Direct Airside Transit Visa (DATV) nationals
In addition to needing a visa to enter the United Kingdom, nationals of the following countries also need a visa to transit through the UK, known as Direct Airside Transit Visa (DATV). See our Transit (INF 20) guidance for more information."
her country has since fallen off the list...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I'm an American - Insight would be wasted on you scum!