All you have stated may very well be correct, but are really irrelevant, and is a straw argument since it doesn't at all address the points the parent made nor my challenge to them.
Only the last sentence you stated is glaringly wrong "at least be responsible enough to know that you have the facts, before you digest them as such."
Since we are talking facts, let me restate my original posting and the parent.
1. Damn near every unit shipped has been sold. This is the history of the PSP. This is why there is a pending shortage. (ok you have me this last sentence, it doesn't refute my point) 2. Even in Japan, its been difficult to find one even weeks after release. 3. The parent assumes there is salable stock in warehouses and stores that is unsold. Normally, the parent would have a point, but that does not apply here.
Let me restate the parent I was responding to: (Parent stated) 1. Sony has not sold 800K units. Sony has shipped 800K units. 2. They aren't "sold" until they're in the hands of consumers.
Now, are you going to tell me that anything less than nearly all of this 800k are *not* in the hands of consumers ?
Thank you for talking about Sony's past history of engineering shortages, it is quite interesting and would be a good topic in its own right, but please bring the discussion over to how many of those shipped are in consumer's hands.
Very easy, considering that the place there were, was *not* accessible to the PSP's *or* the general public.
In order to access the file, one had to sniff a normal http transaction between the PSP and the servers to find what types of files it looked for. Then one had to modify strings to suggest obvious alternate servers and paths, using a normal web browser to download the files.
These files then could be later transferred to the PSP by two methods: using your PC to spoof a Sony server to the PSP, *or* simply copy the file to the memory card in a specific directory.
As I said, one had to work very hard to get these files. They were available, but *not* easily accessible (as in hidden out of sight, but not secured) to normal people.
Damn near every unit shipped has been sold. This is the history of the PSP. This is why there is a pending shortage. Even in Japan, its been difficult to find one even weeks after release.
The parent assumes there is salable stock in warehouses and stores that is unsold. Normally, the parent would have a point, but that does not apply here.
I do disagree the leak is mostly Sony's fault. The file was only able to be located by people who explicitly searched in non-standard locations as a result of examining how the PSP performs its updates. These people looked specifically for files that would be considered "unreleased".
Leaked or not, the file was obviously pre-release and of unknown quality/status. As a firmware update, this is especially dangerous. People who understand the nature of firmware updates in general excercise extreme caution (as the two I mentioned who destroyed their PSPs anyway in the name of science:) But anyone else is simply out of their element and still must take responsibility for their action.
Full disclaimer: I am one of those who ended up with a "brick". I took this action knowing full well in advance I could end up with a brick. I do not hold Sony in any way responsible for my brick. Neither was I expecting the software to do as advertised or anything at all other than wanting to observe how the PSP dealt with the file.
Sony clearly has no responsibility for this. Anyone stuck with a brick has only themselves to blame.
The fact that the firmware update was hidden only by obscure location (one has to *guess* how to find it, that wasn't terribly difficult, but enough to keep it away from normal consumers) is more than enough for Sony's defense.
Anyone applying a firmware update of unknown quality on ANYTHING takes a huge risk and must accept the consequences. Whether it be Wifi APs, hard disk drives, MP3 players, etc... they all take firmwares and they all can become bricks.
I said that it required special effort to find this update. I also said it was the responsibility of the person who downloaded it. I did not blame Sony. I said very clearly, it is not Sony's fault. In fact, I said very nice things about Sony, and I blamed the people who downloaded it.
If you read my message, I say the same thing that you say, but with less technical detail, and less emotion.
Go to the source and your questions will be answered.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/72201/wo/Vi2BS8klyWlG2Fht09N1onFmOvJ/0.0.11.1.0.6.21.1.3.1.0.0.0.1.0
People download an unofficial update directly from Sony without warezing it, have no right to expect anything better than a broken PSP, but installed the update anyway.
The people get depressed, but Sony nicely offers to fix it for a fee, people have nice working PSP again, and Sony gets earlier experience at fixing bad updates in advance of the (whenever) forthcoming real update.
Xbox outside Sony ONLY because there was an extreme shortage of PS2's due to Sony revamping production for a radical new model, reducing the supply of the old model FAR in advance of the new model.
The cargo ship full of PS2's stuck in the Suez canal didn't help. Sony eventually air-lifted tons of PS2's directly from China when the situation became too severe (people couldn't get a new PS2 if their lives depended on it).
Sony loaded it to their ftp download servers, most likely for testing purposes.
Some enterprising individuals figured out how the PSP locates these updates, and were able to use that information to locate this file.
They then downloaded this file and proceeded to experiment.
There were two primary classes of these individuals: a. Schmucks who thought they were cool for getting in on some cool new app early and immediately installed it. b. More intelligent folx who realized what they had, understood the risks involved, and accepted the fact in advance that they might royally screw their PSP. These people, those who installed it, were more interested in learning all of the ins and outs of that file.
Now, I happen to know 2 people of the latter kind who destroyed their PSP. They didn't complain or whine, but they were quite depressed with the result. They did no warezing nor would they, as the concept of warezing is rather obscene to them.
They DID check around to see if Sony would do something, since well, Sony has to have a way to handle bad firmware updates when real ones get released anyway. There was no expectation that Sony WOULD do something, but hey, one has to try, right ?
But to say the software was stolen is a bit incorrect. It was placed up on accessible servers for distribution onto the internet, and was accessible without any special security to prevent the downloads. It was merely not visible nor readily available to anyone who would expect any official release - only people determined to look for unofficial releases could find it.
Having said that, I say clearly my strong belief that Sony is not culpable in this regard. The only people capable of finding it were the two I described above, and neither had any right to expect any better result than what had happened. The responsibility for their actions are their own, not Sony's.
Indeed, it is quite kind of Sony to offer to repair these units. Given that this is a service Sony needs to offer anyhow for when REAL updates come out, Sony gets some early practice at repair.
I praise Sony, for releasing a fantastic product (it really is) and for being willing to fix a problem that was not their fault (albeit, for a fee, which should not begrudged to them).
I repeated the experiment myself with default Word settings. It was picture perfect.
Any, even experienced typographic experts who are Democrats and Kerry supports have analyzed it to death and concluded they were obvious fakes made in Word.
The Kos analysis is amateurish at best, written by people who do NOT do typography for a living, much less know how to analyze documents, nor are they capable of a simple Word experiment that backs it up in a way that even the common lay person see in a clear way.
Obviously, you did not do this experiment yourself.
You must not have figured out how to play GT3 then.
I have always been able to load cars from my Garage, as highly tuned as I could make them, and race them in the 2 player competitive play.
The trick is, you need to go explicitly go "load" the cars from your garage. The option is right there. You need to exit slashdot right now and go to your game and try it out right now!
The Final Fantasy franchise is the hugest in existance on the PS2. Every FF release is a major event. I am quite frankly surprised that this was not even mentioned, even though some XBOX games were mentioned a few times, and they are no doubt not nearly as huge.
Yes, they covered themselves by saying they knew they would miss some things, but missing this one is as big as it gets.
He will do much better by acquiring a vertabra
on
Metered HTTP Proxy?
·
· Score: 2, Funny
It can't be bought in stores, it can only be evolved from within, but its the best thing for building character within oneself and one's children.
You have a much more restrictive definition of proprietary than I do. To me, there is still no difference between the gameboy cartridges and the sony UMD disks - both companies are controlling the distribution of that media and what goes on it, and no one else is using it for anything else. So it always makes me wonder why anyone complains about Sonys format being proprietary, when it isn't any more proprietary than most other consoles....
So...which format are these cartridges then ? I never heard of anyone using those cartidges for anything else than gameboys...right ? Sounds pretty proprietary to me....
Tell me the gameboy and the new DS don't use proprietary formats... they all look pretty damn proprietary to me. Not that it matters to me, since I only expect to be playing games off that format that I buy...just as one would expect on any other system, proprietary format or not.
Lik-sang was quoting extortion prices. The MSRP is $250 roughly. That what you should expect to pay when there is no longer a blackmarket for these things.
Televisions fall under FCC Part B rules. If they pick up stray interference, they are required to "accept the situation". It is the responsibility of the manufacturer and consumer/owner to create a tv less susceptible to interference and/or to adjust their antenna/cable/etc accordingly. The TV owner has no recourse.
The DS is only afoul of FCC rules if it interferences with licensed radio reception equipment(Public safetly, aircraft, ham, etc...).
If somehow it was powerful enough to interfere with the actual TV signal in the air (as opposed to interfering with the TV receiver itself) then thats also a serious matter, but highly unlikely to happen. If someone finds a DS that can jam a TV or Radio broadcast I want it.
So, only when police officers, ambulances, pilots, and hams (and so on...) can't communicate due to a nearby DS is there any FCC issue.
I am actually myself extremely sympathetic to this "cause" in general. Drivers should be easier to write, and companies should be more accommodating to open source.
I use FreeBSD. Love BSD. Other BSDs are cool too.
I just felt this recent tactic has a very bad smell to it. I am amazed that people have no misgivings about being a part of it.
I specifically complained about Timothy himself putting a name and email address in the article text itself, rather than letting people follow the submitted links. I feel it is highly inappropriate of Slashdot to extend the/. effect to a person's emailbox.
Get real ? Since when does every consumer demand require a response ?
As for my bitching, I am amazed that someone should so casually assume that their cause is so just that others should just follow along blindly and not raise alarm at harassing tactics used.
Its one thing for Theo to solicit emailings, but another thing for Timothy of Slashdot himself to paste a person's name, title, and email address right into article posting, or allow such to happen.
This is extremely irresponsible on Slashdot's part to stray away from merely posting links to articles that incite harassment, and instead directly post links to actively incite harassment.
Slashdot Mirror
All you have stated may very well be correct, but are really irrelevant, and is a straw argument since it doesn't at all address the points the parent made nor my challenge to them.
Only the last sentence you stated is glaringly wrong "at least be responsible enough to know that you have the facts, before you digest them as such."
Since we are talking facts, let me restate my original posting and the parent.
1. Damn near every unit shipped has been sold. This is the history of the PSP. This is why there is a pending shortage. (ok you have me this last sentence, it doesn't refute my point)
2. Even in Japan, its been difficult to find one even weeks after release.
3. The parent assumes there is salable stock in warehouses and stores that is unsold. Normally, the parent would have a point, but that does not apply here.
Let me restate the parent I was responding to:
(Parent stated)
1. Sony has not sold 800K units. Sony has shipped 800K units.
2. They aren't "sold" until they're in the hands of consumers.
Now, are you going to tell me that anything less than nearly all of this 800k are *not* in the hands of consumers ?
Thank you for talking about Sony's past history of engineering shortages, it is quite interesting and would be a good topic in its own right, but please bring the discussion over to how many of those shipped are in consumer's hands.
Very easy, considering that the place there were, was *not* accessible to the PSP's *or* the general public.
In order to access the file, one had to sniff a normal http transaction between the PSP and the servers to find what types of files it looked for. Then one had to modify strings to suggest obvious alternate servers and paths, using a normal web browser to download the files.
These files then could be later transferred to the PSP by two methods: using your PC to spoof a Sony server to the PSP, *or* simply copy the file to the memory card in a specific directory.
As I said, one had to work very hard to get these files. They were available, but *not* easily accessible (as in hidden out of sight, but not secured) to normal people.
Damn near every unit shipped has been sold. This is the history of the PSP. This is why there is a pending shortage. Even in Japan, its been difficult to find one even weeks after release.
The parent assumes there is salable stock in warehouses and stores that is unsold. Normally, the parent would have a point, but that does not apply here.
I do disagree the leak is mostly Sony's fault. The file was only able to be located by people who explicitly searched in non-standard locations as a result of examining how the PSP performs its updates. These people looked specifically for files that would be considered "unreleased".
:) But anyone else is simply out of their element and still must take responsibility for their action.
Leaked or not, the file was obviously pre-release and of unknown quality/status. As a firmware update, this is especially dangerous. People who understand the nature of firmware updates in general excercise extreme caution (as the two I mentioned who destroyed their PSPs anyway in the name of science
Full disclaimer: I am one of those who ended up with a "brick". I took this action knowing full well in advance I could end up with a brick. I do not hold Sony in any way responsible for my brick. Neither was I expecting the software to do as advertised or anything at all other than wanting to observe how the PSP dealt with the file.
Sony clearly has no responsibility for this. Anyone stuck with a brick has only themselves to blame.
The fact that the firmware update was hidden only by obscure location (one has to *guess* how to find it, that wasn't terribly difficult, but enough to keep it away from normal consumers) is more than enough for Sony's defense.
Anyone applying a firmware update of unknown quality on ANYTHING takes a huge risk and must accept the consequences. Whether it be Wifi APs, hard disk drives, MP3 players, etc... they all take firmwares and they all can become bricks.
TechniMyoko-san,
I think you misunderstood much of what I said.
I said that it required special effort to find this update. I also said it was the responsibility of the person who downloaded it. I did not blame Sony. I said very clearly, it is not Sony's fault. In fact, I said very nice things about Sony, and I blamed the people who downloaded it.
If you read my message, I say the same thing that you say, but with less technical detail, and less emotion.
Go to the source and your questions will be answered. http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/72201/wo/Vi2BS8klyWlG2Fht09N1onFmOvJ /0.0.11.1.0.6.21.1.3.1.0.0.0.1.0
Or,
People download an unofficial update directly from Sony without warezing it, have no right to expect anything better than a broken PSP, but installed the update anyway.
The people get depressed, but Sony nicely offers to fix it for a fee, people have nice working PSP again, and Sony gets earlier experience at fixing bad updates in advance of the (whenever) forthcoming real update.
Xbox outside Sony ONLY because there was an extreme shortage of PS2's due to Sony revamping production for a radical new model, reducing the supply of the old model FAR in advance of the new model.
The cargo ship full of PS2's stuck in the Suez canal didn't help. Sony eventually air-lifted tons of PS2's directly from China when the situation became too severe (people couldn't get a new PS2 if their lives depended on it).
Sony loaded it to their ftp download servers, most likely for testing purposes.
Some enterprising individuals figured out how the PSP locates these updates, and were able to use that information to locate this file.
They then downloaded this file and proceeded to experiment.
There were two primary classes of these individuals:
a. Schmucks who thought they were cool for getting in on some cool new app early and immediately installed it.
b. More intelligent folx who realized what they had, understood the risks involved, and accepted the fact in advance that they might royally screw their PSP. These people, those who installed it, were more interested in learning all of the ins and outs of that file.
Now, I happen to know 2 people of the latter kind who destroyed their PSP. They didn't complain or whine, but they were quite depressed with the result. They did no warezing nor would they, as the concept of warezing is rather obscene to them.
They DID check around to see if Sony would do something, since well, Sony has to have a way to handle bad firmware updates when real ones get released anyway. There was no expectation that Sony WOULD do something, but hey, one has to try, right ?
But to say the software was stolen is a bit incorrect. It was placed up on accessible servers for distribution onto the internet, and was accessible without any special security to prevent the downloads. It was merely not visible nor readily available to anyone who would expect any official release - only people determined to look for unofficial releases could find it.
Having said that, I say clearly my strong belief that Sony is not culpable in this regard. The only people capable of finding it were the two I described above, and neither had any right to expect any better result than what had happened. The responsibility for their actions are their own, not Sony's.
Indeed, it is quite kind of Sony to offer to repair these units. Given that this is a service Sony needs to offer anyhow for when REAL updates come out, Sony gets some early practice at repair.
I praise Sony, for releasing a fantastic product (it really is) and for being willing to fix a problem that was not their fault (albeit, for a fee, which should not begrudged to them).
People still have ps/2 keyboards and mice ???? Let me guess, you would hook up your 10 year-old 14" SVGA monitor to it ?
I repeated the experiment myself with default Word settings. It was picture perfect.
Any, even experienced typographic experts who are Democrats and Kerry supports have analyzed it to death and concluded they were obvious fakes made in Word.
The Kos analysis is amateurish at best, written by people who do NOT do typography for a living, much less know how to analyze documents, nor are they capable of a simple Word experiment that backs it up in a way that even the common lay person see in a clear way.
Obviously, you did not do this experiment yourself.
You must not have figured out how to play GT3 then.
I have always been able to load cars from my Garage, as highly tuned as I could make them, and race them in the 2 player competitive play.
The trick is, you need to go explicitly go "load" the cars from your garage. The option is right there. You need to exit slashdot right now and go to your game and try it out right now!
I believe EA has alot of developers in Austin TX ? Pflugerville is one of the yuppie suburbs.
The Final Fantasy franchise is the hugest in existance on the PS2. Every FF release is a major event. I am quite frankly surprised that this was not even mentioned, even though some XBOX games were mentioned a few times, and they are no doubt not nearly as huge.
Yes, they covered themselves by saying they knew they would miss some things, but missing this one is as big as it gets.
It can't be bought in stores, it can only be evolved from within, but its the best thing for building character within oneself and one's children.
Well, doesn't seem to be a problem to me. I will just use memory stick flash for my needs...
You have a much more restrictive definition of proprietary than I do. To me, there is still no difference between the gameboy cartridges and the sony UMD disks - both companies are controlling the distribution of that media and what goes on it, and no one else is using it for anything else. So it always makes me wonder why anyone complains about Sonys format being proprietary, when it isn't any more proprietary than most other consoles....
So...which format are these cartridges then ? I never heard of anyone using those cartidges for anything else than gameboys...right ? Sounds pretty proprietary to me....
A custom MIPS-based CPU.
Something interesting...as in...something that Sony hasn't predetermined that you are able to run ? Not likely, for a long time at least, if ever.
Tell me the gameboy and the new DS don't use proprietary formats... they all look pretty damn proprietary to me. Not that it matters to me, since I only expect to be playing games off that format that I buy...just as one would expect on any other system, proprietary format or not.
Lik-sang was quoting extortion prices. The MSRP is $250 roughly. That what you should expect to pay when there is no longer a blackmarket for these things.
Televisions fall under FCC Part B rules. If they pick up stray interference, they are required to "accept the situation". It is the responsibility of the manufacturer and consumer/owner to create a tv less susceptible to interference and/or to adjust their antenna/cable/etc accordingly. The TV owner has no recourse.
The DS is only afoul of FCC rules if it interferences with licensed radio reception equipment(Public safetly, aircraft, ham, etc...).
If somehow it was powerful enough to interfere with the actual TV signal in the air (as opposed to interfering with the TV receiver itself) then thats also a serious matter, but highly unlikely to happen. If someone finds a DS that can jam a TV or Radio broadcast I want it.
So, only when police officers, ambulances, pilots, and hams (and so on...) can't communicate due to a nearby DS is there any FCC issue.
I guess I should have mentioned,
I am actually myself extremely sympathetic to this "cause" in general. Drivers should be easier to write, and companies should be more accommodating to open source.
I use FreeBSD. Love BSD. Other BSDs are cool too.
I just felt this recent tactic has a very bad smell to it. I am amazed that people have no misgivings about being a part of it.
I specifically complained about Timothy himself putting a name and email address in the article text itself, rather than letting people follow the submitted links. I feel it is highly inappropriate of Slashdot to extend the
Get real ? Since when does every consumer demand require a response ?
As for my bitching, I am amazed that someone should so casually assume that their cause is so just that others should just follow along blindly and not raise alarm at harassing tactics used.
Its one thing for Theo to solicit emailings, but another thing for Timothy of Slashdot himself to paste a person's name, title, and email address right into article posting, or allow such to happen.
This is extremely irresponsible on Slashdot's part to stray away from merely posting links to articles that incite harassment, and instead directly post links to actively incite harassment.
Is it the policy of Slashdot to allow this ?