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Mac mini Dissection
xbasque writes "Smash has a video showing the technique for cracking open a Mac mini safely. Upgrade the RAM and hard drive yourself and save a bundle (ain't that the point of the mini?)" And if you don't plan to take one apart yourself,
parvenu74 points out the pictures of exploratory Mac mini surgery on mini-itx.com, writing "From a post: 'The board itself is slightly smaller than Mini-ITX at about 160mm square by our estimations, and includes Ethernet, Modem, DVI/VGA, 2 x USB, Firewire and Audio connectors (sadly not optical).'"
I'll just spring for the extra 500 bucks and have apple do it for me.....or just buy two whole stinkin' computers for the same price. Hmm....
Let's hope it's not hosted on a dissected mac mini. Unless it's overclocked. Then it's OK.
This was not ripped open. This mac mini was just one motherboard provided to the press for the purpose of looking at its motherboard. MacNews.de aren't the only site with images of that particular motherboard.
RST
To put one of these babies in my car.
Then put some wicked cool Red LED Lights in the front of the car, and whenever the car talks to me, the red lights act like a visualizer of sorts. Knight Rider here I come!
It would make a good brain for a robot
I don't understand how the MAC-mini works. If it's so small, how does it keep the rain out?
Is there an actual audio in on the board? Cause there's no socket for it. Apparently this is because there are superior USB devices that work with GarageBand so no-one would use an audio in jack if there was one. What I wanna know is what's the best way to use this as a PVR? Are there USB tv tuners? How about USB high definition receivers?
How we know is more important than what we know.
I've been teeter Tottering about getting a Mac for some time now, a bunch of my close friends have been putting pressure on me to get one (then again they also pressure me to drink)... cuz they all converted years ago. Now it seems like I might actually do it. Like I'm picking out stuff to do with it.
I also thanks to this article am considering doing a crazy Mini-ITX style case mod, and upgrade. as I would something more than a low end starter system.
Yaaay!
--
Ps, First post? maybe, not quite,
So does the Mac Mini use a laptop hard drive or what? It doesn't say anything about the HDD on that page nor the pages that I looked at on the day of the announcement. It would make sense, seeing how the Mac Mini is basically an iBook in a box, but it would kill performance.
Read as MiniMac. Don't blame me! I'm a lighting guy!
...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror, and you would not have been informed.
Read the article. They say they "got their hands on one incredibly quickly and in possibly the first Mac mini warranty-voiding exercise ripped it open to reveal the innards."
http://www.mini-itx.com/news/98490587/
On the same site..... WAAAAAAAY cooler, or hotter, depending.
Elgato systems sells a number of models of the EyeTV, they even have an HD model! I think it's the best best for PVR style capture. I believe it also comes with PVR kind of software.
Then you just need to hook it into some kind of IR blaster...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's mentioned in the article, but it probably bears repeating here: "Apple states that as long as you do not BREAK your Mac Mini while working on the inside, it is still covered under warranty."
Left unanswered is the obvious question: well then, if any hardware problems arise, how will Apple know I'm not to blame? Based on my experience getting Macs serviced (4 years in university), I'd say there's really not much to worry about. If you break the RAM slot, then tough luck. But if, say, the CPU dies through no fault of yours, Apple's not the sort of company to refuse to service your Mac on a technicality. There aren't a lot of assholes working for Apple customer service.
Nevertheless, I do wonder if there's some sort of sticker or seal on the inside to let Apple know you've opened the case.
If you're going on about size... why don't you go for PC/104 format? 96x96mm...
http://www.pc104.org/
this is awesome! Think of the insane value you could get out of upgrading the ram and hard drive yourself! Cheap/powerful editing station here I come!
But does it run Linux? I for one welcome our new mini MAC overlords. Getting boring yet?
i have a mirror at http://www.forgottennewbies.com/~natef/macmini-sma sh.mp4
:)
just in case
Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
Can I guess Smash's method of opening the case or should I RTFA?
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Supposedly the Elgato software has no kind of hardware acceleration at all, which really reduces the ability to playback stuff on low-end computers.
But it does output standard quicktime files that you can play back with Apple's player.
I read a report from someone with similar thoughts, he recorded an SDTV stream (I think it was SDTV, may have been HDTV) and tried playing it back on a 1.25GHz powermac. He first tried streaming from a mounted server (which was choppy) and then from the local HD - in the last case it was still somewhat choppy.
Unfortunatley I do not know how much RAM he had. It says to me though that if you want any chance of playing back HDTV video on one of these things the faster model (1.42GHz) would be the one to get... but that you might want to wait until reports are is as to performance. Of course if you do not already have one on order you are going to be waiting anyway at this point!
It would probably be fine for standard TV.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I didn't think it would take long for someone to get instructions etc up, however I didn't think it would be this quick. The more these things get mentioned, the more I want one.
Is the slot for the WiFi\Bluetooth card any sort of standard connector? Apple carges $75 for 802.11* ($125 for 802 and Bluetooth), which seems sorta pricy, unless, of course, you need to get an Apple specifc part, at which point it is just a ripoff.
Yeah, you probably could just hook up a USB 802 adapter, but then you loose some "look how small it is" points.
#include <signature.h>
Nevertheless, I do wonder if theres some sort of sticker or seal on the inside to let Apple know youve opened the case.The stickers must be vapourware just like the Phantom because I've never seen one.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Images, audio, and video are generally static files. Modern web servers and networking stacks are more than capable of handling lots of simultaneous static file transfers, even on a low-end CPU. A server hosting lots of static files would run into either of the following bottlenecks long before the CPU gets taxed:
Just in case you're not: the slot at the top isn't a PCI slot, it's the DIMM slot...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
[evil]
... I can imagine the expressions on their face when they see the all the pieces laying there on the table ...
Dissecting a MiniMac is sort of like ripping the limbs off of your kid sister's Barbie dolls and glueing them back onto your GI Joe action figures
[/evil]
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
From the FA:
the rounded corners should help cramming it into unusual places
I know I'm going to regret asking, but just what are the usual "unusual places"?
Has anyone tried this combination as a small footprint HD video jukebox?
sulli
RTFJ.
I help design and develop digital set top boxes for a living and EyeTV's products are far too expensive. I've been considering a Mac Mini as a front room media centre but the sad fact is that I can actually get hold of a DVR for my digital satelite service cheaper than an EyeTV box. What I want is a USB2 or preferably Firewire full screen capture device and haven't been able to find one.
$399 Dell PC: "No Wireless"
$499 Minimac: "AirPort Extreme- and Bluetooth-ready"
So.... that'd be the "no wireless" option for the minimac too?
The revolution will not be televised. It won't be on a friggin blog either
Jobs hates slots altogether. When the original Mac came out he bragged about it being "hacker-proof" and they had to fire the guy befor they could get the Mac into the workstation market. So now they only begrudingly allow slots in the pro market where they have to, and everyone else "doesn't need them" (because Steve says they don't).
ePC computers have priority, they've been around for about three years, I am sure they served as a source of inspiration for apple.
Besides, EPCs are more versatile, being intel compatible, run linux better, more operating systems are available for them. A friend of mine installed FreeBSD, Solaris, and QNX on an ePC (in addition to linux)
On the mac side linux is much harder to install, whenever apple introduces a new machine, no distribution works on it. You are stuck for a while with the proprietary OS from Apple.
Does anyone know if Apple's collection of case designs can be seen somewhere?
They have made quite a few cool ones, so I can hardly remember them all.
That was soooo fun to do back then :)
"Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
I had this video for awhile because I am training to be a Apple Portable / Desktop Tech, If you purchuse the $299 Apple Service Training you get this and any other Take apart video for free. THe person that leaked this could be in some serious trouble..
keanmarine.com
"The more these things get mentioned, the more I want one."
...said the sheep.
What would you do with the PC Card slot though? While what I quote from another post of mine below applies to PCI slots, it's almost equaly applicable to PC Card slots as well:
Untill you get to thinking about the slots and what you need them for. Example, my PC sitting here has 5 PCI slots and 1 AGP slot.
The AGP slot is occupied by a video card, which I just recently replaced for the first time in 5 years. On the mac mini, that's already built onto the board with an ATI chipset.
1 PCI slot is used by my Soudblaster card, which I just recently upgraded, again for the first time in 5 years, and that was because the card never worked right in the first place and this happened to be the time I was upgrading things. On the mac mini, this is built into the system
1 PCI slot is occupied by an ethernet card, un upgraded in 5 years. Gigabit is built into the mac mini
1 slot contains a USB/Firewire card, again, un upgraded, and built into the mac mini.
The other two slots remain unused, and for the forseeable future, I have no use for them. In the end, they're actualy a waste.
So when I look at the mac mini, it has everything I would use PCI/AGP slots for built in.
So then the question becomes well what if you want to upgrade?
Well, when I did my mass upgrade for the first time in 5 years (until now, I had only added RAM), I bought a new motherboard, a new processor, new graphics card, new soundcard and new RAM. My total cost came out to about $600 after rebates.
After reflecting on this, it occurs to me, that if a mac mini suits my needs, by the time I would decide to upgrade it, I might as well just buy a new one for $500.
In fact, for the first time, my computer would actualy be a disposable product. Something that I could (theoreticaly) just discard and buy a new one when it no longer served my needs, and it would be roughly price equivilant to upgrading the system.
So in the end, having PCI slots and an accessable case on the mac mini would seem to be more of a waste than a benefit.
Of course, you can always argue that hard core gamers and power users have other things and upgrade more frequently, but I argue that no hardcore gamer/power user is buying a $500 computer.
And to end, I should note, I have a PC Card slot on my powerbook. In 5 years of ownership, I have used it ONCE, and that was to see if the new Nextel broadband wireless cards would work with a mac even without special drivers (it didn't BTW).
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Well, the e-PC-3 with similar configuration as the Mac mini (Combodrive and 40GB HD, windows home edition and Microsoft works) is about $1400. Quite pricey for a PC-card... Please compare the specs AND the price for the Apple products. Yes there are smaller, cheaper notebooks or ones with better prestanda. Are there any ones smaller, cheaper and with better prestanda? How well would the iBook sell if it wass $100 more expensive but with a PC-card? How many people percent-vise are using those slots? No, not "I do for my GPS", but percent vise?
mac mini wins because it has no free agp slot, no free pci slots, no free hd slots, no free ddr slots
The EMS USB2 adapter will add two slots for DDR to any machine with USB ports.
Umm...
A composite video/svideo adapter for the mac mini costs $20 from apple.
It has a v.92 56k modem built in
It is Airport Extreme Ready(ie 802.11g capable)
I've seen lots and lots of PowerBooks in my line of work. Practically everybody I encounter, professionally, has one.
Know how many PC cards I've seen? Zero. Nary a one.
Since you're going to put the necessary ports on the machine anyway, and since you're going to build wireless antennas in anyway, what possible use is there for a PC card slot? Leave it out and keep costs down.
"they have the same weight and size as the iMAc mini. Only the videocard is better in the iMac mini, otherwise ePC-2-3 are better, more ports (e-PC3-2 firewire, 4Highspeed USB, serial, parallel,video out AND A PC CARD SLOT. IN ADDITION USERS ARE ALLOWED TO OPEN THE BOX"
Well, that's all well and good if you only want ports, but lets look at the facts.
EZ-GO ePC-2 (Base System)
Processor: 1.1Ghz intel celeron
memory: 128 MB SDRAM
video: integrated video (11.8MB max shared)
HD: 40GB
Optical Drive: 24x CD-ROM
Price: $589
mac mini (Base System)
Processor 1.25Ghz Power PC G4
memory: 256 MB
Video: Radeon 9200 w/ 32MB memory
HD: 40GB
Optical Drive: DVD ROM/CD-RW
Price: $499
It looks to me like the mac mini is a superior system in almost every way, and costs $90 less.
A PC card combines a small size with the advantage of exapandability. New technologies may show up and you can expand the iMac mini by buying a PC Card. With a PC card slot you dont need a big ugly machine to upgrade.
In my opinion the main advantage of an iMAC mini is not its price, but its small weight and size. Unfortunately, without a PC card slot, it is (almost) useless.
Myself I have 7 PC cards and I use them almost everyday. These include cards for old technologies (such as SCSI) and new tecnologies (such as g-wireless)
There are firewire adapters for composite video in, the mini can take an airport card internaly and the modem is v.92.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I actually have a ReplayTV, that I've not activated and can't use just as a VCR (which I would be happy with).
I really want a PVR that does not cost extra per month and lets me do what I like with the video, so that's the appeal of a more expensive Mac soltution for me - plus I would really like being able to use it as a hub to act as my primary iTunes store and as a way to display shared iPhoto libraries on the TV more easily.
I agree that a firewire full screen capture device would be nice. The EyeTV 200 does that (has a composite & S-Video input along with stero jacks) , and I think the EyeTV 500 also would have the same inputs in addition to the HD stuff. The wierd thing is that I thought the EyeTV 200 was cheaper, but at the moment it's the same price on the page. Last week it was $50 cheaper as a MacWorld show special.
I haven't really seen any other video->firewire converters that were that much less sadly.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
A composite video/svideo adapter for the mac mini costs $20 from apple.
Is that in and out or just out?
Could it possibly have occurred to you to look at the mac mini's tech specs before you say that? Let's see, in reverse order:
3. v.93 modem: built-in on all models
2. wireless networking: can order with it installed, or buy the card later and either have Apple install it for you, or do it yourself.
1. Firewire is meant for moving video around. Yeah, the adapters to hook analog video up to firewire can be a little expensive. But it's not like it's not an option.
Please actually look at the computer you're panning before you pan it. Thanks.
Gee, I see you didn't read the specs on the Mac mini. It can be upgraded to Wifi and Bluetooth via and internal adapter. So you can connect not only to your wirless network, but also to your bluetooth cellphone or pda. It also has a built in fax/modem. So you can send and receive faxes, as well as use dialup internet access. As for the composite video, there are several USB2 devices for that purpose. I've used a couple of them. They work just fine. But unless you are converting VHS tapes to a digital format, Firewire is a much better option. But if you must, the cost of a USB2 capture device is about $90. A good one is called Interview 3.0 from Daystar Technologies.
'The board itself is slightly smaller than Mini-ITX at about 160mm square by our estimations, and includes Ethernet, Modem, DVI/VGA, 2 x USB, Firewire and Audio connectors (sadly not optical).'
They mean 160 cm^2 = 16,000mm^2. Smaller than a CD case.
160mm^2 is a coin's surface.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
The Mac mini HAS a traditional v.92 modem. Go here, and look right next to the ethernet port.
I'm actually considering getting one of these (If enough suckers^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wpeople sign up with my sig!). I normally hate Macs, but since I've wanted just an extra machine to store stuff and occasionally mess around with, this suits my needs perfectly, plus it hides well, and It's cheap!
Ah crap, I said I hate Macs... there goes my karma!
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living."
- Seneca
...that's my sister!
You can get composite video in via external USB/Firewire converters, of course most people getting video in would be loading it via Firewire from the camcorder.
But then not many PC's I know of come with composite video in either.
Other people covered the rest of the things you got wrong. Basically, instead of slots you can expand this via firewire/USB. To me it's worth it for the small form factor that results.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
its out only.
In would require a $130 USB2.0 TV tuner
The DDR part is the best ;)
The Apple page does not indicate the size of the drive or RPM, just that it's an Ultra-ATA.
Probably a 4200 laptop drive.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Mac Mini already has a built-in V92 modem, built-in video out (VGA, DVI, composite, and S-Video), built-in wireless, and built-in bluetooth (the latter two are options, but I'd certainly recommend them). As for video-in, as many others have pointed out El Gato systems makes a whole series of USB 2.0-based video-in solutions for not much money.
So, you can have everything you just mentioned, and be using just one of your USB ports.
Check the specs - Macs have traditionally put a LOT of functionality on the motherboard. Sometimes for better (ethernet for the last 15 years, recently firewire, USB2, DVI), sometimes for the worse (ADC, subpar sound output until quite recently).
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
This may be just the thing to get me to buy a new mac for the first time in 8 years.
I'm thinking about Mandrake 10.1 PPC, a power inverter and a kick ass car computer.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I think it is worth the money to have such a small and powerful machine. I own one and is much better than any laptop.
I bought one 18 months and I use it for geophysical computations on the field. I run linux on it, and have no monitor. I use it connected to my Centrino laptop (Thinkpad 1.7GHZ) It is almost three times faster than my Centrino, this may be due to the special nature of the code I run, but anyway the performance is impressive.
In would require a $130 USB2.0 TV tuner
My PC's entry-level PCI video input card (ATI TV Wonder VE) cost me $50 new in box at Best Buy. Apple has failed to disprove the conventional wisdom that Macs are more expensive.
I dont think the mac mini is targeted at those wanting the cheapest, most expandable pc they can get, and don't care what OS it runs.
I think it's geared towards a couple niche markets: someone who's pissed off with windows to the point of junking their PC and replacing it with a mac (perhaps by the advice of a relative/friend who's sick of dealing with their windows problems for them). Also, for those wanting a net appliance (think cobalt qube). Lastly, for those curious about OS X and/or macs in general, but not ready to make the full switch to the platform. Training wheels for a real mac, could run side by side with their existing PC (KVM switch or control it over network).
Apple's a premium brand and will be for the forseeable future. I can get just as drunk on miller high life as I can on newcastle, but I still prefer the newcastle and will pay the extra money for it. Can you dig it?
Hey! I was able to download the video! Why haven't you lazy-asses melted the site yet? What the hell do I pay you for?
...
What? I don't pay them? They do this for FREE?!? Then where did my money....
Oh. Well, damn.
Does it have a cooling fan?
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
...but do they not have a measuring tape?
The Farewell Tour II
But what if you want to get composite video in and out of the machine? Or what if you have a wireless home network? Or what if you live in a geographic area where anything faster than 33.6K dial-up is not affordable, and you need a traditional v.92 modem? Would it be wise to depend on USB 2 based adapters for those?
Composite video in: You just need a Firewire device like EyeTV.
Composite video out: get one of the cheap DVI->Composite adaptors.
Wireless home network: Get an Airport card installed. They are available as build to order.
V92 modem: Built in. And all modems will negotiate with the ISP modems on a speed. So the 56K modems in the miniMac will automatically drop down to 33.6K as appropriate.
So again what do u really need PCI for ? Between USB2 and Firewire and BTO options they seem to cover most things.
Funtage Factor: Purple
There is a builtin modem and internal apple-made adapters for 802.11X and bluetooth.
The modem is in the base system, the wireless options are seperate (802.11x and bluetooth adapters are $125 total).
At http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/01/mi niapplesandoranges/index.php I read this:
"""
But it was only a matter of time before someone would argue, "It's still not price-competitive with the cheapest Dell." And within days we've got our first such columns and articles, all of which leave me scratching my head, wondering if these guys are as bad at comparing products when they shop for themselves as they apparently are when comparing products for their columns.
"""
I agree. I'm a really recent switcher. I had a second hand mac kicking around years ago (and despised the OS - I ran Be on it), but bought an iBook laptop last Friday. It's my first mac and my first laptop. My justification was that it was cheap, runs unix, has full driver support, especially for wireless networking. I've held off for about two years waiting for a laptop that can deliver that for less than two grand Australian. That's a really compelling formula, and a far better geek computer than a PC.
To get a happy unix experience on a PC laptop you either pay a lot more money or roll the dice on linux drivers and winmodems. Or you can try and run Windows and put up with the limitations of cygwin or the speed hit of vmware. Yuck.
Not that it's always been this way. Until recently, Apples sucked. But OS X has become usable and the hardware has a better reputation than it used to - laptops in particular.
If I were Apple I'd be a bit concerned at the powerbook line - the iBooks deliver so much for so little now the powerbooks don't look very attractive.
Believe with me, my saplings.
The goal in designing the Mini was never to make the cheapest possible machine, it was to make a low-cost Macintosh that Apple wouldn't have to be ashamed of.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The little s-video/composite output dongle is $20 from apple's store.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
It would have been a good idea to try to boot a recent linux on this thing. So we'd have known if it'll require some kernel work to make it run, or not.
blah
Except that new things tend to appear in the computing market, and without slots you're screwed.
802.11 wasn't on the market when my Powerbook G3 shipped, but the majic of slots keeps the machine usable. Now, Apple would rather have people buy a whole new machine for the want of a $70 card -- which is exactly why they are nice profitable company with a 1% marketshare.
Why not compare Mac Mini to PowerMac G5 instead? Maybe one cluster of two or three cheap Mac Mini can outperform one PowerMac G5? If so, it would be a cheap solution for computing intensive tasks. Anybody wants to try it? Run Maya's distributed renderer on it?
What's the price difference between buying it with the smallest hard-drive and buying another one later. It seemed to only be $99 to buy it with the bigger drive originally. 1.) Did anyone have luck with a bigger hard drive? 120gb or something 7200 rpm? Do you need cooling? 2.) Shame about no dolby digital output. It would have made a nice dvd player in the media center.
Just had to point out its nearly impossible to accidentally kill a mac. Tried firing one up with a paperclip in the memory slot and it still worked. Had to run a USB death cable (USB cable spliced into a 19.5V 6A sony notebook adapter) to it before it would die... apple fixed it under warranty. As long as you don't snap anything off or leave non-apple stuff (RAM, hard drives) inside when shipping it they're pretty good about repairs.
802.11g is. And I think it uses mini-PCI, just like Intel's Centrino.
But the Bluetooth either comes on the motherboard or doesn't. There's no way to add it.
Do not EVER put a Fram oil filter into any car. They are the worst of the worst:
t ml
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.h
Read the above break down. I have also personally had a Fram ruin one of my turbo chargers, and have a friend who actually got Fram to replace a motor because the check valve in one of their filters backed out and lodged itself in the oil galley.
ft
Oh snap! That took me five minutes dude, you've got to come up with a better argument.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Everybody making comparisons seems to forget the fact that you get loads of *useful* software out of the box with *all* Macs.
OS X Panther and iLife '05 allows you to do useful things with your machine out of the box. Not only that, but the software is *good* and it all works together.
There is nothing comparable to a Mac in the PC world. Apple build the machine from the ground up, including the operating system and utilities. It all works nicely.
I only realised that when I bought my iBook, so I don't expect people who haven't owned a Mac to understand.
-- The doctor said I wouldn't get so many nose bleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!
> In would require a $130 USB2.0 TV tuner
Mac Tax at work. Similar Windows models cost $50.
2.5 x 8.5 x 10.25
2 x 6.5 x 6.5
Same size my ass.
---
Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
He plans on buying one and upgrade the ram and HD on The Screen Savers next week. So check it out.
Help me get a free mac mini
http://www.freeminimacs.com/?r=13908694
I know it's not so convenient as having digital out built in, but look at this:
e /index.php
http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/firewav
I'm happy that Apple have left the choice of whether to spend on digital audio out up to the buyer, rather than ramp the price of the mini.
I know that Macs have a reputation for being black boxes were thou shalt not upgrade yourself type stuff, but it's actually not the case.
The old PowerG3's were the easiest computers to work on. Hell of a lot easier then working on a Sun comptuer or a Dual CPU dell or even a white box PC that I built myself.
I recently bought a ibook and the memory upgrade was VERY easy to use.
Obviously this jackass hasn't even looked at a picture of a Mac Mini.
is can install any linux distros on this sucker....
Anyone and ideas?
Or your board is just 5 years old. Most boards these days have:
-Onboard 10/100 Ethernet, sometimes gigabit, sometimes even two ethernet ports
-Onboard sound
-Onboard USB2.0 and Firewire if you want it
-Onboard video if you want.
An example is the low-end Asrock boards. I just picked one up for my daughter's computer upgrade before Christmas for $60 CDN. It has onboard sound, LAN and video. I paired it with a half GB of RAM and an Athlon 2400 CPU, and the total price tag was still under $250 CDN including tax. If I was building a whole system from scratch I could add a an 80 GB drive for under $100 CDN, a DVD burner for $80 CDN and a nice case for $60CDN and still be considerably less than a mini-mac ($625CDN plus taxes). Plus I'd have more memory, a larger hard drive, and a DVD burner. Bottom line: Macs are still more expensive than PCs, and probably always will be.
One thing you cannot buy for the Mac Mini is dual head video. That is sadly a major showstopper for me.
The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
Agreed. What is the point of a PCMCIA slot when you already have 802.11g, Bluetooth, USB 2.0, FireWire 800 (400 on 12" models), gigabit ethernet (10/100 on 12" models), and a dedicated graphics chip with DVI/VGA out and dual-screen support? PCMCIA on a modern Mac laptop is pretty useless for most people.
Well, for composite video out, Apple offers a $20 adapter that goes on the DVI port, and provides composite and S-Video outputs.
For composite video *in*, you'll need one of the third-party USB or firewire video digitizers. Most of the cameras worth buying today are firewire anyway, so a special-purpose video-in port on the Mini wouldn't make any sense.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Yeah Steve tried to limit the Apple II to 3 slots (it had 8 i believe), and he was against expansion ports in the original Mac because it was supposed to be a cuisinart (not anything related to being hacker proof, don't know what ass you pulled that from).
.5% of the market is interested, and they should consider a laptop, iMac or a G5 instead.
But Steve's NeXT had plenty of NuBus + slots in it, as do the plastic G3/G4s and the G5s, all of which were designed under Steve's watch. So its hard to fathom what your point is about Steve, slots and the mini.
Its an appliance, it has USB and Firewire, and RAM/Wireless slots, why does it need a PCI or PC Card slot? What would you put in it, a card reader?
I can hear it now..
"Macintalk Pro English, Bruce."
It's not K.I.T.T., but it's close enough.
Sure I would waste 7 hours finding my parts, coming home putting them together etc... but ITS FUN!!! and a learning experience.
If you want to be a dull dumb boy and just BUY everything in this world, do it, become a robot consumer slave where in your view, NO ONE should have any skills apart from the job you do and be 100% a clueless idiot for anything else.
Dude, people love to spend 5 hours preparing a super uber dinner too, sure they could work for 5 hrs, then go to a resteraunt and get the same, but why?? To support your macro economic consumer engine? So more people spend and buy , more money rotates and makes more taxes? Screw the banking money elite system, do it your self, reduce the govts taxes, become a better person for it.
Simply 'outsourcing' everything might create more jobs, but you become a duller useless human being.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I kept debating on spending the $75 on the 512MB upgrade. I placed my order on the day of the annoucement (FedEx says it'll be here Friday) and couldn't decide. I spent the $75 because we didn't know how hard the box would be to get into or if it would be sealed. I'm glad I only blew $75 on the RAM but I still feel like a dork. I *knew* this would happen... *sigh*
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
I wish they'd release a followup with the same, squarish dimensions as the mini, that'd sit under it.
If today you can edit on a uber $2000 mac, and its 'professional quality' then if in 18months time, the same spec mac comes out for $500, will you stupidly claim that its "cheap junk, good for web/email only" ????
You want fast DV editing? plug a FIREWIRE 400gig drive into it, then you cannot claim its a hookey pooky cheapass mac.
Todays $300 PC was $1000 in the year 2000, ie with the same specs if it was available. I could edit fine in the year 2000, though not as fast as a $5000 RAID scsi PC of today, its not as bad as a 1995 AVID system.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
No, its a USB2.0 version, the USB2.0 version of the Ati Wonder for PCs cost $99, but it doesnt come with the same quality software as the mac version(the mac one has better software)
I guess 7200rpm drives will produce significantly more heat. This might be a problem.
-silence
Dyslectics of the world, untie!
Just FYI: I hope you do know that there are a bunch of online shops which will let you configure the extra RAM far cheaper than Apple's web site. You know, Apple's own online store isn't the alpha and the omega.
So there you go. 1GB RAM without opening the case yourself, and without paying a ludicrious 500 bucks for it either.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
The replies there also apply, but what about if you want internet via your mobile phone company? What about if in a couple of years you want to connect with broadband over power lines? What if someone invents something new?
I am trolling
This isn't a machine that's designed for battery power, though it's probably not bad, since it's pretty similar to some of their laptops. It's designed to be inexpensive and small for minimal impact on your desktop, with an AC power supply plugged into the wall. If you don't mind having robots plugged into the wall, you can go for bigger boxes with more CPU if you need them; if you don't need the fast CPU, the embedded systems market offers a lot more choices, many of which don't waste power on things like a high-end DVI video system, and which offer much more flexible choices of data I/O for controlling peripherals.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
What concerns me is the MAC Mini Power supply. As a European my wall plugs give me 220V at 50Hz. I have some American contacts who will be travelling here shortly and can bring me a mac mini. Mac mini sells here at about EUR 500, which is about 25-30% more expensive than $500.
7 50 99 doesn't give me any info. (yet?)
Does anyone know whether
- The power supply sold with the Mac Mini's in the US support 220V
- The power cable is easily replacable with one that fits European wall outlets?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=
as posted before
The EZ-GO ePC-2???
It's not about being mini. It's about being first really cheap Mac. Heck, 300 GBP... it's same as PS2 or XBox at launch.
>That took me five minutes dude, you've got to come up with a better argument.
Really? I though he was talking about TV TURNERS and not just video capture. There're a few more features in the ATi
---- Take the Space Quiz!
1. The only way to get a better computer with than a Dell at the same 500$, is... to pirate Windows. Even an OEM or upgrade version of XP Pro or Windows 2000 Pro will put quite a dent in that 500$ budget.
;)
Build _two_ computers at that price? Well, gee, just two OEM Windows licenses will take up most of that money. So if you're trying to tell me that you can build computers for less than 100$ each, I'm damn interested to see what goes into them. I want one of those too.
So the comparison is... what? "Stealing is cheaper than buying"? Well, gee, ain't that a surprise
And yeah, you could put Linux on them, but other than terminal nerds noone actually wants Linux on their computer. Joe Average will want Windows on their machine, one way or another, and Dell's price already includes that. (And Apple's includes MacOS/X.)
2. Plus, since I _do_ build my own computers, I can tell you that over the years it's been just a pain in the butt. I've had my CPU overheating and crashing due to a bad heatsink. I've had data loss, repeatedly, due to hard drives overheating in a bad case. I've had such duds as buying two different hard drives in a row that were dead on arrival and had to be RMA-ed. Or like a third-party 9800 XT which mysteriously died for no obvious reason after a couple of months. Etc.
Now for some people all this hassle counts as fun. You have to also realize that for most people it _isn't_. Anyone who isn't already into building their computers as a _hobby_, is very much better off paying to have it assembled by Dell.
3. Noise. By and large this is a sub-case of 2: crap components designed by the cheapest unqualified monkeys. Or by the marketting department.
Except in this case it's not a component that dies suddenly, it's one which works badly by design. And badly in an annoying way.
About 99% of the OEM computer cases are designed by clueless idiots, with _zero_ clue of or consideration for airflow or noise. They put a lot of fans, but have them sucking at sheet metal and not achieving anything except to make that metal vibrate. Or in other creative ways not being able to move more than 5-10% of the fan's rated airflow. They're just designed to make a lot of noise and look funky, nothing more.
(And a big "fuck you" goes to ThermalTake, while I'm at it. That's an elite among the elite, as retarded case design goes.)
By comparison, Dell's cases (and IBM's and Apple's too, and a few others) are actually designed by engineers, not by graphics designers. They actually achieve better cooling with _far_ less noise.
Etc.
Just a thought: Maybe that's why people buy from Dell or Apple? 'Cause that price includes a usable OS, and a warranty, and it's all put together and tested by someone else?
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
This computer doesn't even exist...
1 12 86233
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=135238&cid=
It's a Mac! That's the whole point! The revolutionary fact is that it is a _cheap_ Mac!
Apparently the modem is a separate board, similar to the PowerMacs and iMacs. I wonder if Griffin will release a new version of the gPort to support Midi on the Mini.
http://griffintechnology.com/products/gport/
Oh, and how asthetically pleasing... *sigh*
With x86 hardware you have to either fight with Windows or work at getting GNU/Linux/X to be your friend.
Cheap(ish) + pretty OS that just works = Great combo!
How many people out there are thinking:
Wow, that looks like a great computer for Mum! No more spyware...
Or:
I can get one of those to do my work on, and use my $500 dell to play around with this "Linux" that I keep hearing about...
Or:
I'm going to get one, and damn it, I'm going to install more RAM myself!
These things are going to sell.
Perhaps the usage you seek is not that what this machine is intended for, it's a Mac for J.6pack and not for industrial design or that sort of work.
Heck, you don't want to setup a CAD guy/girl with a $500 dell, so why do the same with a mini-mac?
Is it so hard to get used to do things with the product that are designed for that purpose?
Sure searching the limit can be fun but don't complain if it isn't perfect for it.
I have no problem recording from a Mini DV camera to an external FireWire drive (120GB LaCie) on a much slower eMac. Surely this approach would make more sense than trying to upgrade the rather awkwardly sized (for speed) 2.5 inch disk?
Compare the Mac Mini with Hoojum products. Coincidence? Engaged made made the same comparison.
... and no mention of the obligatory Beowulf Cluster! You could carry it around in a backback.
freeminimacs, just becau
While I agree that they are not the same size, I must observe that the power supply for the morex case is inside the case. I understand the one needs an external power brick for the Mac Mini.
Could be wrong though, couldn't be bothered checking
# ssh -l neo the_matrix; killall -9 agent_smith
I have a PowerBook with a PC-Card slot. I use it to grab photos from a compact-flash card that I put in an adaptor. This saves me from the crappy download software that came with the camera and it means one less cable to worry about. As a bonus this is way faster that USB 1.1 transfers.
However if I did not have the PC-Card slot, everything would still work... So this is not stricktly required for me.
A friend of mine needed a PC-Card slot for some data over GSM services, but again this is a limited use.
et les Shadoks pompaient...
FWIW, I ripped the 4200 RPM 60 GB HD out
...)
of my 15" PowerBook about 1 year ago, and
replaced it with a 7200 RPM 60 GB Hitachi
(HK7K series). It was pretty expensive
(nearly $200 USD), but the computer has
been quite a bit more responsive. And BTW,
neither the battery power drain nor the
heat have been appreciably affected -- the
same power saving technology works with the
HK7K disk.
From other posts here, there is a large, slow
moving (quiet) fan in the Mini. Use of an
adapter to put a 10K RPM 3.5 inch disk in
should not require a new fan - it may run more
frequently and at a somewhat higher speed (more
noise). I might be somewhat more concerned
about the output of the power brick, as well
as any internal terminal for supplying the
power a 3.5 inch disk would require. Perhaps
just another mod to make, while we're at it?
(Damn, I want one of these Mac Minis
...a higher wattage CPU...
/. here so why do you use wattage? Of course you mean power
consumption. To any half clued techie, Wattage sounds just as silly
as Ampereage, Faradage, Ohmage and Voltage. (current, capacitance,
resistance and potential)
We're om
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
It's not revolutionary, but it IS a big deal. The price for an OS X-capable computer has just been halved. And Mac users no longer stuck with the choice between an all-in-one or a workstation-class machine.
The mac mini is to pc's what the ipod was to mp3 players?
Wow. I think an apple sale sales exec just creamed himself.
When disecting any product from apple you must use approprieate tools.
your toolkit must contain a range of sizes of hammer ranging from a tack hammer up to a huge sledge hammer.
The tack hammer is for show but the real job gets done with the sledge hammer!
You are wrong. The Morex case doesn't have an internal power supply. It has an internal DC-DC power supply, which means that it has an external wall-wart to convert AC to DC.
This seems like the kind of basic mistake that geeks make. Optical connectors cost more and putting two kinds of connectors which is common when optical are made available costs even more than that and takes up additional space. This unit is not intended to be a machine to please extreme hardware enthusiasts, but a cheap machine that ordinary folks can use. Most people have little if any equipment with optical connectors and would much rather save some money to get a computer that mostly suits their needs. Putting optical connectors on this product would without question be a mistake, raise the cost, and foul the marketing.
The Morex case doesn't have an internal power supply. It has an internal DC-DC power supply, which means that it has an external wall-wart to convert AC to DC.
I stand corrected.
# ssh -l neo the_matrix; killall -9 agent_smith
1. Connect to the internet through your mobile phone, huh? THE MAC MINI IS A DESKTOP.
Dipshit.
2. USB? Firewire?
I can't seem to disassemble the web site to get the video out. I better leave the upgrading to teenagers.
They're not trying to prove that Macs are cheaper than shitty PCs - they simply released a Mac that is cheaper than other Macs.
From the outset it was clear that you could build/buy a PC for less money than a Mac mini, but that's just not the point.
It's a Mac, in a box the size of a few CD cases, with a full OS, CD burning, DVD playing, wireless etc.
Just outta curiousity, was there *any* left over screws?
Dosen't matter how many things I've taken apart, there always seems to be atleast one extra screw!
/. is good for you.
when I put a 7200rpm 3.5" external hd to my PowerBook it got much faster even on OS 9. 4200rpm 2.5" drives are freakin slow.
especially for the underpowered mini
No gigabit ethernet, so according to this, the mini won't be able to function as a Logic processing node.
No Norm, those are your safety glasses; I'll wear my own thanks...
It is a shame that the mac's use is less prevalent in third world countries. For example, in the city I live, there is not even ONE mac reseller that I know of. No ads in newspapers and magazines to be seen at all.
Infact if the mac mini is introduced in third world countries at the price stated (after taxes) , Apple can really make a dent in the market share of Microsoft and break their monopoly.
Ravee
--
http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com
Linux Help
for all things on Linux
Speaking of RAM, does anyone know whether I can upgrade the memory using standar PC DDR memory?
I will second the post claiming major perceivable changes when going from 4200 to 7200rpm. OSX is heavily disk dependent -- for example most menu operation require going to the disk and reading some file or worse like enumerating some files, or even worse like running some code that needs to read in from the disk. Think contextual menus for example. History menu in Safari. Sick of it already?
4200 is barely acceptable.
some considerations when upgrading hard drives.
Power - little change when going from 4200 to 7200, within 10% most. No problem here.
Latency - typically 7ms, 5.5ms amd 4.2 for 4200/5400/7200 rpm respectively. 7200 is almost twice as good as 4200.
Seek time - 12ms for 4200/5400, 10ms for the lone 7200 available. Nice but not earth shattering.
Buffers - 8GB in better drives. Unrelated to rpm.
Noise - slower is better. 7200RPM is roughly 2 time louder.
Reliability - who knows, specs are unhelpful here.
I call BS...
t h/ 29/products_id/114
You can use this link to price out that enclosure, when configured the same with 1.2Ghz proc, winXp home, 40G drive, CD-RW/DVD drive + 35 for assembly. Total cost for comparable PC mini is then over $700 and the mac has much more included SW, better OS, and is still a nicer HW package for $200 less.
http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/cPa
did anyone else read smash's 'Mac Mini vs. Airport Extreme/Express?' article. is it just me or was that article really stupid?
One movies show the use of a putty knife to open the case, then some pics of the naked circuit board. I would like some real dissection pics of how it all fits together. Also I would like to see things like the CPU cooler and fan...
It's a computer the size of a smallish CD case that you can take home, plug in, turn on, and be surfing the web two minutes later, with no fear of viruses or spyware. It's a half-toaster computer that Just Works. That's revolutionary to me.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Anyone want to convert it to MPEG-2 or something? I hate quick time.
Wow!
I didn't know Cartman was a Mac-version naming snob!
He even posts on slashdot!
.
"You have liberated me from thought."
These boxes were never meant to be opened!
I'm no Mac fanboy; I've got plenty of x86 machines running Linux and XP (it does have its uses) all over the place at work and at home. But, the very next machine on my list to buy is the Mac Mini. Seems to me that the whole point of the Mac Mini (and indeed of all Macs in general) is this:
1. You bring it home.
2. You turn it on.
3. It just fucking works.
Constrast with the proceedure for x86 machines:
1. You bring it home.
2. You install all your expansion cards.
3. You install the operating system. We all do that ourselves, right?
4. You configure the operating system for the devices you have installed
5. You shut down and rearrange the expansion devices and pray that it clears up interrupt conflicts.
6. Probably go to step 4. Eventually fall out of this loop.
7. Tweek. Repeat.
8. Futz. Repeat.
I've wasted many, many hours of my precious life installing, configuring, tweeking, twiddling, rearranging, futzing, prodding, farting around with, etc., all these x86 machines. I want at least one computer that I don't have to dick with. Here's my checklist for justifying my buying one:
1. Runs Quicken? Check.
2. Runs TurboTax? Check.
3. Mozilla products? Check.
4. Runs MS Office (sorry, gotta use it)? Check.
5. Runs Photoshop? Check.
6. Runs iTunes? Check.
7. Unix-based? Check. X11? Check. ('tho I'm no big fan of BSD-ish installations, I'll get used to it).
8. Upgradable? Who gives a shit?
What this means for me is that I can dump two machines that I have at home (one Linux, one XP), and replace it with a smaller, no-muss-no-fuss, machine.
Geeze, how can I resist?
In the course of every project, it will become necessary to shoot the scientists and begin production.
Hey, I know wired wrote back in August that free ipod was "legit"... anyone know if they still are?
Since the same company is now doing: free minimac...
Any followups on this?
2. Usually more expensive, and for the new technologies USB is not always fast enough. Did you ever see a Firewire modem?
I am trolling
I dont think 99% of mac mini buyers need dual monitors. That's Power Mac territory.
we all learned back in elementary school that the Romans used letters instead of numbers
And they had no zero. That's why when the Romans wanted to get some math done, they kidnapped an Arab.
Or at least, that's what my high school calc teacher told me.
Regardless whether it does or does not fit Mac mini's marketing profile, I think it's a shame that there's no digital audio output, because otherwise the Mini would have been an awesome for use as a media player driving a video projector in a home theater. It's got it all; it's small, pretty, quiet, reasonably powerful and it's got a high-quality video output. Imagine it coupled with a projector, cordless desktop and a Linux-based fileserver in another room... (There probably are USB-addon solutions to this problem though, haven't checked yet)
Well, you didn't specify, but at 6.5x6.5 inches, it would be a rather smallish ass you have.
I pity you!
So American's never listened to the Beatles? Or did they think that the banker mentioned in Penny Lane, never wears a Macintosh computer in the pouring rain?
I was pretty disappointed that it didn't come with a 16 port 232 serial card myself. I mean, come on Apple, you didn't even include and 8" floppy - who's gonna buy one of these?
That was classic intercourse!
coz you know it will be GBP600 when it goes on sale in the UK just like it usually is with electronics :)
I mean, after the 79p itunes (vs 99 euro cent) we know Apple is capable of doing it to you...
On your URL, it states that the size of that thing is "2.5" (H) x 8.25" (W) x 10.25" (D)". That is, the volume is 3464 cm^2.
The Mac Mini, on the other hand, is 5.08cm x 16.51cm x 16.51cm, that is, 1384 cm^2.
Put another way, the Mac Mini is less than half the size (40% in fact) of the case you asked us to check out.
Sorry, but that case is ugly. And the system you can put there (VIA Epia) sucks ass when it comes to performance. And you can't run OS X on it.
Of course Mini is ntohign revolutionary. Small and silent PC's have been around for a while. But it is first small and silent Mac that also happens to be extremely affordable! And it offers better performance than those Epias do. If you want small size with better performance, you have to get some kind of Dothan Mini-ITX-system, but those are hard to find and they cost quite alot.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
and this time use your eyes.
he did not forget the motherboard or sound card.
what does 64bit have to do with memory? 64bit programs dont take more ram. retard.
that is why I got a gamecube and playstation. My mac is for my music, and other projects I have. I switched when OS X came out and have never regreted it one bit.
The Mini-Mac is the successor to the Apple Cube, which was about 5 years ahead of the curve.
Steve Jobs is simply refining the old standard- Small is beautiful.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
There are many dangerous stuff in these computers, no matter it is intel/AMD based or a Mac. So please recycle them. If there is no such a requirement at your place, please have this idea in our mind. Maybe 5 years later, it will become a law.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
Why on earth would you need a PC card for this? I can access the Internet over my 'phone using GPRS and bluetooth from my existing PowerBook and telephone without any additional hardware. I have a PC card slot, but I've never found a use for it (the FireWire ports, however, often have things plugged into them).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I won't get mine until Friday, dammit.
Chip H.
Does anyone know the brand and model HD the Mac mini ships with?
Sam
Comment removed based on user account deletion
always the moving target with you mac nuts, isnt it.
next youll be saying something inane like "well YOUR wintel pc doesnt come BLESSED WITH THE SPIRIT OF STEVE JOBS IN EVERY BOX". no amount of debate or evidence will satisfy you, its like discussing allah with muslims.
jesus christ, you mac freaks remind me of the old amiga / atari wars.
keep moving the target...
I will buy one, or two, ah..., maybe twenty. By the way, I have a Powermac G3 blue and white on my desk, we only upgraded hard drive and RAM. And it works great with Panther. I really don't think you need to upgrade video card and sound card if you are not a gamer.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
I see it in the store as a custom option when building a mini.
But is the card itself available? IMHO I'd like the option to upgrade to it. Won't need it initially, but I can see neededing it in the near future.
Considering it's both bluetooth and airport... it would be pretty sweet.
I just hope Apple makes it available like the Airport Extreme card.... so we can upgrade ourselves.
Put 1GB RAM in, and a 7200 RPM ATA/100 HD... and that box is kicking ass.
They go through windows all the time, and they can NOT believe doors are easier for people to get in and out.
I hate to repeat, but I still have a PowerMac G3 blue and white, 350MHz, feeling groovy.
And I also have a G4 1G, looks even slower than the Mac mini.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
And this is the question I have...what power in does it use? That brick is converting from AC to DC (hopefully for auto installs). It looks like the power plug on the motherboard is about 8 or 10 pins, so I'm thinking it is probably eating a combination of 3.3v, 5v, and 12 volt. Anybody see any specs on that yet? I'd assume the motherboard screen print might mention voltage levels.
What the fuck is up with (anti)fanboyism anyway? Do you get a check every week based on your amount of brand loyalty? Do you get kickbacks from Dell for infultrating and spreading the name? Discount airfare? A $1 off coupon for your chicken McNuggets? A cheap rate at Chuck-E-Cheese for your upcoming 13th birthday?
Seriously.
Also, never mind any of these details.
(Yes, there're more then two paragraphs in that link, but you can take some asprin later and feel better.)
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
IN ADDITION USERS ARE ALLOWED TO OPEN THE BOX
Of course, if you stopped shouting long enough to RTFA, you'd have seen how to pop the box open in 30 seconds with a putty knife.
According to http://www.apple.com/uk/macmini/, it's GBP339 for the base. Or you can spec it out at http://www.apple.com/ukstore.
Would I tolerate a refridgerator that was cold enough to make liquid nitrogen if it also kicked out a 90dB whine? No. Would I ever use a toaster that was 5x larger than it needed to be and so ugly that I had to hide it under a desk? No. Do I want my toilet to blue-screen-of-death on me? Not particularly.
From China no less. Will have it monday.
Deliberately fry your Mac and have them repair it under warranty. Seems like pretty obnoxious action on your part.
It's VERY important that those of you who need PCI slots and super fast processors DO NOT BUY a mac mini.
You are ABSOLUTELY right. The DELLs come WITH PCI slots, a SUPER FAST intel processor, and BEST OF ALL.....WINDOWS!!!
If you start MESING WITH WINTEL SUCCESS by thinking of trying a mac now you will only DELAY the arrival of MY mac-mini which I will be ordering soon.
It is OBVIOUS that any computer that doesn't sound like a 707 when you turn it on is NO COMPUTER at all.
There is CLEARLY NO VALUE in reducing the size and audible noise of a PC. In fact, if anything, telling the world you have a little cabinet is BAD BAD BAD!!!
The mac-mini is NOT for you. Please continue to purchase DELLs and whatnot so you have something to show off to your friends while you drone on about expandability, oh, and stop picking your nose.
FireWire media readers are the thing. And I use GPRS (data over GSM) all the time via my mobile phone, to which I connect my Mac with Bluetooth.
Just wondering - if the HD that comes with the Mini is too slow for video editing, could a person just hook up an external firewire HD and use that? Would that be fast enough?
Basically, my question is: What's faster, a 4200 RPM hard drive, or a firewire hard drive?
This is one of those situations where Apple is parting with custom. Unlike every other Mac model that's been produced Airport or Bluetooth "ready", the antennas are NOT built into the box for the standard price. The wireless upgrade kit, available only to authorized service providers, includes both the actual wireless boards and the antennas to be installed. It's a fairly obvious cost-saving measure.
1. Produce an iPod that runs Keynote and outputs video to a projector.
2. Incorporate an integrated reference/bibliography manager into Pages.
Dell Business has this Dimension 3000 Desktop with 17 in E173FP Flat Panel Display $599 - $100 rebate = $499 with free shipping.
P4 2.80GHz , 256MB DDR, Dell Keyboard/Mouse, 40GB Drive
DVD8x/48x CDRW, Integrated Audio/Video, 10/100 Ethernet, Free ISP, 2-Yr Warranty
2 year warranty, 17 lcd, keyboard mouse. The rebate actually come. Check bens or fatwallet to know that dell is good for it.
It seems to me that the Mac Mini is not a superior system and any way. (well video maybe).
re 1 PCI slot is occupied by an ethernet card, un upgraded in 5 years. Gigabit is built into the mac mini
:
Actually NO.
The Mac mini has 10/100 according to Apple's own web site
Built-in 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet and a 56K v.92 fax modem give
Not to say anything against the mini. I actually want one and will probably get one myself soon. It's kind of like the drugs that first get FDA approval. Let's wait till the masses have these and see what kind of symptoms and side-effects sprout. I've usually gotten Macs as 2nd generation items (nisei?) not as first generation items. Except for that Newton..., couldn't wait on that or on the original 128k and the 512k Palm Pilot when the logo on it was still US Robotics. m....
Macmall is giving you a free keyboard and mouse if you order from them... Free shipping as well. http://www.macmall.com/macmall/families/macmini/ Much Love!
in regards to grandparent's
The ability to change devices is the difference between a computer anyone can continue using for years, and a computer that becomes useless after 2 years because one minor component fails and there's no way to replace it.
and parent's statement
Instead of upgrading your machine every two years, you can simply buy a new Mini every two years. End-result is more or less the same, as is the expense.
The bonus with macs is that they stay usable for longer periods of time. You may not need to upgrade every two years; you might want to or lust for the newest things though.
Let me say that for some simpler things, my Powerbook G3-233 was doing just fine 'til its power supply went up in smoke (literally, LITERALLY!) and is being replaced by an iMac-333 (green) which I picked up for less than 90 bucks U.S.ian . It's got enough horsepower to run old matlab scripts on system 8.6, though I may have to up it to 9.x for the stupid Brother laserprinter driver which does a stupid system check and refuses to run under 8.x systems. This is one point where linux wins out: running gimp-print with the HL-1250 works fine for the 1250, 1650, 1440, and the 5040 under linux.
I would suggest the Formac TVR, it's about $30 less and does analog out. I've looked and there are a bit more complaints about Elgato's quality. I know it doesn't encode directly to MPEG, but when you have a chip do it for you, that sort limits your editing capability.
I run MacMAME on my old PowerMac G4 Dual-533 with Nvidia GeForce 2 MX. It runs great, and MacMAME does not get any benefit from multiple processors, so it's a single 533 to it. I can play all but the very most modern games in MacMAME very well on this system. The Mac mini blows away my system in all but hard drive speed so it should handle it all with aplomb. If I actually gave a crap about UT 23 or Doom 12, maybe I'd look at a faster, more expensive system or even a PC just for games, but I don't. Probably if I wanted a game-only system I'd get a PS/2 anyway. To me the old games are more reliably fun, and still more original and they don't take up nearly as much time either.
--- What?
Dude - chill. The parent post was a joke, riffing off Taco's famous dis of the original iPod...
Difference is that with some cascaded USB hubs, you could make your own multi-port RS-232 serial card. Graphics, on the other hand, probably won't work over USB or FireWire. It might work over Ethernet, but what firm makes X11 terminals anymore?
This is the size of a fingernail! It must be a Micro Mac Mini...
Imagine a beowulf cluster of minis. Ha ha ... hmmmm
I am very curious if there will be cooling issues with the mini. The G4 cube (although fanless) had problems shutting down because the computers heat would activate the power button. I had to install an external fan over the top vent of my cube.
I would agree with you but a few things seem to indicate the 500 also has the 200 features, mainly a like to 200 features within the 500 page. I was going to send them an email asking.
Unfortunate if so, as I would mainly be using the S-Video capture since Denver has no broadcast HDTV yet (well, none that I can receive - they are building the main towers now).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I agree that letting you choose a compression of your own is a more flexible, the only downside is you'll need a lot more space to store the DV. It would be nicer for archiving of shows, less nice for just recording something to dispose of later.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I remember the old DEC Multia that had a pair of PC slots in the back of it. Guess what? No one used them. This machine has pretty much everything one could want built in, and if it doesn't, the device that you want to plug into it probably comes in a USB/firewire flavor. It is pointless and costly to put something like PC card compatibility into something that very few people will ever use.
Plus, if you REALLY need that PC Card compatibility, you can always go for something like this:
http://www.arstech.com/usbpcmcia.htm
Yesterday it was an iPod Shuffle being pulled apart, today it's the Mac Mini being disemboweled. While I definately RTFA and enjoyed TFA for both, where did they get these units so early? The Apple store in town says they won't get any till the beginning of next month and I haven't heard of anyone getting either from Apple's online store yet.
Maybe they're the leftovers from the promos?
I am told the Mini uses the same power supply as the new displays do. That little white 85W brick.
You should be able to find one of those locally and check it out.
I have a 15" AlBook that has a card slot. I never use it personally, but I know why Apple still includes it:
Final Cut Pro users that need dual-channel FW800 RAID to their DV editing storage.
Also, any number of high end RAID adapters that allow power users to connect into high speed storage.
It's there for a reason. The PowerBook is used by a lot of Apple's high-end creative market and you wouldn't believe the furor that they would cause if Apple tried to take it out.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
I'm hoping that mine is going to cost $589 less... :-)
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
What do you mean "much higher specs".
I have the pleasure to have a 866MHz Powerbook G4, AND a 1Ghz Via Nehemiah C3 desktop computer.
I can tell the C3 is not superior to the G4. The Mac Mini comes with a faster G4 than my Powerbook has. The G4 has MUCH HIGHER specs!
I'm guessing WWDC will see pbg5's. They recently improved every product line significantly - either by improved specs or a new product - except the powerbooks, which got a modest (and due) speed bump. iPod got the shuffle, desktop got the mini, iMac gout the whole new (and really cool) redesign, etc.
I don't know if they're wanting to clear inventory and parts on the powerbook or what, but it really smells like they're planning something grand with the pbook. Like a lot of people have noticed, the iBook is WAY too close in performance to the pbook now to justify the extra price, and that can't last. It won't last.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
I'll assume that you not only made the shirt on your back, but you also planted, cultivated, picked, ginned, spun and wove the cotton fabric, too.
Or are you one of those dull dumb boys who can't even be bothered to make his own clothing?
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
I know I'm feeding a troll somewhat here, but still, that comment -- just like Taco's "No wireless... less space... lame" comment -- shows how clueless some people are, even intelligent geeks.
The iPod holds >90% of the global MP3 market, probably 95% of HDD-based players, which is HUGE. The iPod Shuffle will probably do the same in the flash-based market, completing the clean-up for Apple. "Nothing revolutionary", WTF? the market-share really does beg to differ!
If the Mac Mini is to PCs what the iPod is to MP3 players -- and chances are pretty good that it will be, capitalizing on the failure of MS to curb the spyware/virus problems with browser+mail that >90% of people (many solely) use their computer for, by providing a reasonably-priced alternative (well, using the cheap "base-price" + extras sales tactic) -- then Apple will do VERY well indeed.
I myself have investigated the small-form-factor PC. I bought the first Shuttle bare-bones case when it came out. It was much more expensive than the Mac Mini (though better specified), it was VERY noisy, poorly designed (PSU inside at the front of the case with a tiny fan venting at the side, but most of the heat staying inside) so ran very hot -- so hot that, when suspended, it practically fried the (full-size) HDD. It sucked. So I bought a Gigabyte TA-1 (around the same price as a base Mac Mini), which is much, much better, pre-built with a VIA Eden, requiring a simple memory and laptop HDD install. But performance isn't great at all and the laptop component upgrades (e.g. DVD-R or HDD) cost a small fortune. Price was around the same as a Mac Mini costs.
Sure, designs have improved and you can now get a decent mini-ITX machine for the same price as a Mac Mini, and it will be much better specified, but you're missing the point with all of this. The average person is never going to buy a bare-bones and fit even the CPU or memory, nevermind the drives. Then they have to install the OS and all the drivers? Please! Time, funnily enough, isn't cheap, and researching, specifying, then building a machine like that will realistically take you hours, and is well beyond most people's capabilities or interest. The average person simply wants *a computer that works*. Take it out of the box. Plug it into the components you have already (monitor, keyboard, mouse, network/phone). Turn it on. It WORKS. Sure you can get this from Dell too, but the real potential for success is that it runs Mac OS X, which is practically immune to viruses and spyware (this is the current situation, regardless of whether OS X is actually more secure than XP; there have been a few critical alerts for OS X and some core apps, but very few remote root holes, and a lot less problems than Windows).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with a lot of what you say, but you really are missing the point. A lot of the people on Slashdot (read: computer geeks) would be tempted by a Neuros or iRiver over an iPod -- they're both better spec'ed, after all -- and by a mini-ITX over a Mac Mini. But the point is, the Mac Mini isn't really targeted at us: it's targeted at people who don't really know about computers and don't really care; people who've got a PC already and are thoroughly sick of it slowing down & crashing due to spyware & viruses, and sick of having to get the family "computer expert" to fix it. There are many, many more of these people than there are geeks. These people want something that simply works, is reasonably priced, looks good and is easy to use. The Mac Mini fulfils all of these criteria. It's not really a hardware revolution, it's an alternative-OS-to-Windows & marketing revolution riding on the back of the iPod revolution. And it'll sell by the millions.
We were buying hp d330's - 2.x ghz, 800mhz FSB, etc, etc. We were happy. We didn't have to pay stupid money for a "workstation" class machine, because after all, we were dropping an extra 1GB of crucial into them.
They got discontinued.
HP is now offering the dc5000. Identical case, identical mobo... wait! It is a "v" edition of the intel chipset, v for value, because apparently there is value add in AGP less computers. Same 3 pci slots, no agp.
The only think I can think of is that Dell and HP wanted a way to (&$$ people to try to push them towards 1200-1500ish desktops^H^H^H^H WORKSTATIONS as opposed to 800-1000ish desktops.
That said, paying for ram from the factory generally brutal.
ostiguy
For $500 you can get a propriatory system that is half the power of a system for half the money.
Show me a $250 SFF system which is twice as powerful as the Mac Mini. Heck, show me a $500 SFF system which is substantially more powerful than the Mac Mini. Remember that the Mini has graphics with dedicated video RAM and laptop components to get down to size. I'll bet the Nanode will cost at least $500, and it won't be any smaller.
I built a SFF machine for just under $400 last year. It's still 5 times bigger than the mini (it's a Mini-ITX tower), it has a shitty VIA processor and no graphics card. Same LAN. Bigger HD, but that's because I didn't mind the size of a 3.5" drive. Better sound and more ports. Homebuilt wooden case, looks nice, but cost me in labor. DVD burner, but those are expensive in slimline (available on the Mini, but not the $500 version). More RAM, but RAM is cheap. Didn't get an OS with it, it runs FreeBSD right now, might switch to Linux eventually. Works real nice as a file/web/print/backup server, sucks for anything else.
Had the Mac Mini existed then, I wouldn't have bothered.
I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
I think those of us who aren't homophobic are less disturbed by seeing an uncomfortable stretching of a healthy, if unpleasant body part. It just doesn't compare to projectile diarrhea.
Tubgirl is sick in the physical sense. She is ill. Being more disgusted by a guy's surprisingly clean bottom than a dangerously ill woman firing off effluvium in all directions is evolutionarily unwise.
So I'd say it's the reverse. The silly gay guy is human. Tubgirl is revoltingly bacterial.
What Windows people often don't understand is that Macs and Linux PCs *don't get slower*.
Mostly, they get faster as the OS is improved. Sometimes there's a new functionality that slows it back down, but on the whole, a three year old Mac runs faster than it did one month after you bought it.
That changes everything.
Windows people often think that the reason their three year old Windows box feels slow is because they've used faster boxes and they're now not used to the slow one they bought a long time ago. That isn't it.
I'm running a three year old Windows box. I've *never* used a faster Windows machine. I've never used a Mac that's newer than this machine either. There's no reason for me to feel like this computer is glacially slow.... except that it is.
We all know that's the way Windows works, that it bloats and cripples your hardware as you install and uninstall programs over the years. We know a fresh install speeds it back up again, but not for long.
It's just hard to decouple that phenomenon and imagine a system that doesn't get slower often, that often even gets a little bit faster. It's hard to believe you can get such a system without tuning Linux performance, fiddling with the nuts and bolts.
This one sentance solidifies it for sure:
A: EyeTV 500 is a fully digital product. It does not have connectors for analog video. EyeTV USB has a composite video input port, EyeTV 200 has both S-Video and composite video inputs. Both EyeTV USB and EyeTV 200 can be used to digitize and record analog video.
Doesn't get much clearer than that!! Thanks for finding the info.
I wonder if they work in conjuction at all, if you could have a 200 and 500 and have them work well together. I guess I'd rather wait for the mythical "700", a joining of the two devices (at hopefully somewhat less than twice the price).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
No, he mentioned a $130 TV TUNER as the only alternative for composite video-input. The original poster (now marked "Troll -1") said:
But what if you want to get composite video in and out of the machine?
So, the point is that there are cheap alternatives for composite video input -- USB.
Why don't you tell us exactly what you need to do with a PCI slot that you cannot do with a USB peripheral? Links to ATI's website won't cut it, you need to make your argument yourself.
I swear that some people are so blind to sarcasm that they could trip and fall into a large vat of it and not even notice.
Flamebait, indeed.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Okay, I have been looking at this thing over and over while trying to figure out what seems "wrong" with it.
Beautiful design. Just gorgeous. Well, except for the part about the goddamn power button being on the back.
The back.
The back...
That's IT! With all of those cables hanging out of the back of this thing what is to keep it from being dragged off my desktop by their weight? Does it have two-sided tape on the bottom instead of feet?!
Looking at the specs for this, the Mac Mini seems almost perfect for the powerpc port of OpenBSD.
Apple is introducing the Mac mini as a secondary CPU to the Windows user that has been interested in seeing what the buzz is about OS X and the Mac in general. The cost is very close to the lowest cost Dell once you match up the features. The processor are pretty close in speed The Windows Gamer can get a Mac mini and a KVM and while online playing games can switch over and do the things that the mac does with out the threat of Virus, sypware ect Its more like a test drive. If you like it you'll have no problem spending more money on a higher end Power Mac Apple is just teasing all the windows users to try before you buy the big toy Apple is answering Wintel users biggest complaint YOUR TO EXPENSIVE!!!! I want a HUMMER (original) but they cant afford one so I drive a Kia Jus my 2 cents
The mini will boot from an external firewire drive just fine. Average data transfer speed of a 7200rpm drive is still slower then firewire 400.
I'd find it useful to stick a memory card reader in; the external USB ones are annoying to use in comparison.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
http://www.FreeMiniMacs.com/?r=14164588
:)
Yup yup... it's from the same Free iPod company so it will work if you get enough referals.
The offers are pretty good. Theres one for buying printer ink! Sheesh... I think just about anyone can do that
I went for the blockbuster offer of sending movies directly to your house from a selected list. It's like Netflix, only cheaper.
I'm just sending this out here because I figured someone might be interested to know about it. I decided to sign up for it because I've always had a difficult time with Macs and I thought this would give me a chance to learn more about them.
The Mac OS X version of Yahoo Messenger supports voice chat fine, I use it well, not all the time, but now and again. It supports video too. So go for it...
To the contrary. If you use a USB one, you can just plug it into your keyboard. If you want to plug it directly into Obscure And Useless Slot Type #7 on the computer itself, you have to get up and go to wherever you keep your computer.
Pain in the ass.
So would a Cray. If you made a really big robot.
No no no! Don't you know anything about how big robots are controlled? If they form from 5 vehicles uniting you need 5 people inside to shout the name of the attack you are using. Single piece giant robots need whiny teenagers with psychological problems in them.
beautifly written
"Upgrade the RAM and hard drive yourself and save a bundle"
ha ha. No surprise Apple's overcharging for upgrades.
One word:
Size.
Ok - I use multiple OSs so I won't flame the Windows tech sux0rs MacOS teh r0x0rs line. The oboard video is pretty lame on the Dell's but they are fine for office work. Personally I would drop another 256MB in there - the same as I would for the Mac Mini.
Both Dells and Macs have one similar problem. Non standard components you need to source from the vendor directly to replace. Dell's have non standard cases, motherboards and power supplies. You can't just swap in normal PC parts if stuff breaks. Same deal on the Mac.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Okay, this computer isn't designed for /. regulars. It designed for people like my parents. If you told, say, my mom she could spend 100 bucks on a computer (but she has to put it together) or 600 bucks on the SAME computer (that came assembled), it wouldn't be a contest. 600, just to avoid headache. They don't know the diff between Firewire 400 and 800, if they even know what firewire is period (or if they care, which of course they don't). I'm assuming this is the point of the mini-mac. No, I KNOW this is the point of the mini-mac, just as Jobs said in his keynote. Debating about what this doesn't have is like bitching that the KIA you drive doesn't have DVD navigation.
My good looks paid for that pool, and my talent filled it with water.
The Daystar one seems to capture 1/4 screen only.
The Belkin one ("Interview") only has drivers for OS 8 and 9. IIRC drivers for for OS X and Interview are available, but then you have to buy them as well.
El Gato, Canopus or some other Firewire DV converter would be your best bet, but they're starting to get into pricey territory (relatively speaking).
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
Composite-in would be useful for people who have old VHS videotapes, and want to put them on their Mac.
Some may not have a camera, let alone a DV one. I could see someone new to the Mac and video editing wanting to make an iMovie of, say, an old wedding video, as a trial run, before going out to spend the money on a video camera.
It'd be handy if that could be done by just hooking up a VCR, without spending $100 or more on a USB-in. But I'm not sure how many customers would potentially fit this profile.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
So why don't the makers of these products release the cheap Mac version?
It's not Apple's job to make peripherals.
Why don't you tell us exactly what you need to do with a PCI slot that you cannot do with a USB peripheral?
Other than display Aqua on a second display perhaps? Or can Mac OS X connect to an X11 terminal on its Ethernet port?
I also have a PCMCIA adapter for my microdrive. I can use the USB 2 on my camera but when you have a GB or so of images to transfer, the extra speed of the PC Card slot would be nice.
www.clarke.ca
I'm not sure how many customers would potentially fit this profile.
I'm quite sure that someone in Apple product marketing got the numbers on that, and that's why the Mini doesn't have a video input.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Oh, sorry about that -- I was talking about a Powerbook, not the Mac Mini. The Mini doesn't need a PCMCIA slot.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
>Why don't you tell us exactly what you need to do with a PCI slot that you cannot do with a USB peripheral?
Nice try, but no. The reply was "My PC's entry-level PCI video input card (ATI TV Wonder VE) cost me $50 new in box at Best Buy". I don't have to tell you if you can or cannot do the same with a USB device, rather that with 50 bucks you get a PCI device with shitloads more functionality. And if you go for a bit more you can even buy one you can use to plug in a second monitor and have a second display.
Of course, if you're buying apple products you won't mind paying almost a hundred bucks more for the same functionality.
> Links to ATI's website won't cut it, you need to make your argument yourself.
Funny you say that to me and not to the guy I was replying to. Funnier even that you obviously missed the argument.
---- Take the Space Quiz!
Thank You! I'm glad SOMEONE got the joke. (Obviously not the moderators)
The Register has an article on this - apparently UK mac minis are GBP22 more expensive even excluding VAT.
The modem is in the base system
Oddly. Apple has this on the main mini pages, but some of their knowledge base articles say it's not included on all systems. Perhaps they included it everywhere at the last minute?
Turns out 40GB/7200RPM is now available in US for $143.
5 Fid=211&pf%5Fid=CO02HDD0758BM
5 Fid=214&pf%5Fid=CO07HDD0745USBA
_ ov.htm
http://www.lookforpc.com/product_detail.php? pid=H4014R9200
cheapest 60GB is not much higher $153
http://www.gogocity.com/product_details.asp?dept%
which is roughly what you will pay for 5400/80
you will need a case to put your original drive in, so consider buying this $178 (plus powered usb2 hub, needless to say)
http://www.gogocity.com/product_details.asp?dept%
Note that both drives are designed for 24/7 operations, so they should be reliable.
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/e7k60/e7k60
just saw this
shipping and tax are extra, but it is still cheaper than apple's price
I just ordered one the 1.42ghz version with the smallest drive they let me pick. The price for a 7200rpm drive at 160gb was $150. I also ordered ram through Kingston. It's more than a little bit annoying though that Apple wants to rape you on the upgrades.
So my Mac mini arrived Friday (January 21) and I already dissected it... Enjoy! http://www.kithology.org/images/macmini/index.html
I'm a boy. Just like flat screens, a flat ass is hot.
(Fuck, I wish my ass was that small. Stupid desk jobs.)
---
Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)