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Nintendo DS Emitting Anomalous Signal?
An Anonymous reader writes "An owner of Nintendo's Shiny New Portable, has noticed his DS is emitting a signal that is projecting a ghostly image of his screen onto his TV- and he's not even multiplayer gaming. He and several others have uploaded photos of their DSs interfering with their TV's reception. As one forum-goer points out, this doesn't seem like the DS is adhering to FCC standards." More news from a forum, so enjoy some NaCl with this.
This is pretty much what the whole TEMPEST dealie was about, wasn't it? I'd wager the same thing happens with a GBA LCD if you strip off the case and shielding bits.
I really like how the forum-goers keep claiming it's a secret feature from Nintendo.
If the FCC has arbitrary standards for indeceny why not WIFI?
-Dipster
Hmmm, well this certainly has some interesting possibilities if true. It might be kinda cool to be able to project one's gameplay on a good TV. I wonder if anyone will try to enhance this "feature"?
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
Here's an excerpt from the thread:
OK, given that the majority of the posts look a lot like that one, why the hell would anyone with half a brain take this seriously? It's obviously just interference coming from an improperly shielded cable. I'm sure the FCC will have something to say about this--well, they would if Michael Powell weren't so busy acting as the Christian right's moralistic attack dog, anyway...
I get funny lines on my TV. Same goes for the dehumidifier.
Gonna recall those, too?
I turned on the old 70's tv and the ds, can't get nothing. I'll try again later maybe.
i've read stupid things before; but you, my friend, take the fuckin cake.
Just don't play by a TV or shield it yourself or something. I think it would be pretty cool to see a ghostly image of your DS on the screen either way.
Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.
This is clearly intentional, doodz and this is how it happens.
The DS uses super-sekrit rays which come out of the batteries (or maybe the thumbpad i dont no im just a leet), which beam to a satellite near the moon which nintendo has which then transmits to your tv. It works even with your radio, makes pictures on the screen if u dont have 1 u need a dot matrix printer it workz with those 2.
This is uber, we can use a HANDHELD on the TV! I think we shud make a mod so we can take the screenz off the DS and put in a bigscreen TV insted! r0xx0r!
I doubt seriously this will happen. Here's a link to the DS's FCC Certification Report. Just because a part 15 device impacts a non-part 15 device doesn't mean it is not operating within spec. All it means is that the part 15 device must be moved, turned off, etc to eliminate the objectionable interference. Read that little FCC label on the DS (or in the manual). Note that the DS user and TV owner are the same person in this case. They can choose to play and accept the interference or turn off either the DS or TV. My guess is that the DS can't interfere far enough away to cause a neighbor's TV to show interference, so the product probably won't cause harmful interference to anyone but its owner, and only right next to a TV.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
"It has been discovered that portions of a recent batch of DS units were accidentally exposed to a paranormal mutagenic agent before shipment.
The unfortunate result is that some DS units are possessed by demonic spirits, and have been known to display erratic behavior, including but not limited to: emitting strange ghost signals, shooting protoplasm, and spontaneously opening dimensional rifts to hell.
If you have experienced any of these irregularities yourself, we apologize for the inconvenience. Please mail your DS to our new Exorcist Repairs Department and we will repair it free of charge."
BTW, has anyone noticed that giant fetus that appears to be orbiting Jupiter all of a sudden? Where the hell did that come from?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
And why is this not a problem for ALL owners of the DS? I'm guessing it's because the people who are bitching about the interference have cheapass television sets, which don't have enough shielding to protect them from interference.
The shielding is supposed to protect other devices from being harmed by the emitter, but it's also supposed to protect the emitter from things that don't have shielding around them (power cables, speakers, etc.). If a television set doesn't have adequate shielding, it won't only interfere with other devices, it will be easier to interfere with.
I'll need to bookmark this story for the next time someone claims FAA regulations against mobile devices serves no purpose...
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
i really really hope ninty crakes some sort of hardware or wire so we can play our DS's ON a TV. Wud be a really nice idea, but then again the 2 screens on 1 tv would have to be cut down and also you would still have to keep looking at your DS on a lot of games becuase of the touch screen so its kinda pointless in some ways! still, for games like n4su2 and mario 64 wud be mint!!!!!!!!!
"OK, given that the majority of the posts look a lot like that one"
Damn shame. Looks like we left a few childs behind.
Wasn't this called VanEck Phreaking or something like that when you could see what was broadcasted on the screen from one computer to another?
It was a scene in Cryptonomicron, I believe.
"Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
it's clearly stated that you need an antenna close to the DS, so the signal is very faint if you need that close to the DS
those old black and white tv's even get bad reception if you hold some remote controlled toy next to it
I didn't notice this issue, but I did notice one weird thing with mine. When I have the volume up all the way it interferes with the actual display on the LCDs. It gets a little wavy.
They're making fun of us on the warpipe forums. http://forums.warppipe.com/viewtopic.php?t=13217&p ostdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45
43rd Law of Computing:
Anything that can go wr
fortune: Segmentation violation -- Core Dumped
Ok IANAEE but I believe one poster said he saw an image of Mario in his TV. Now, to my understanding his TV was analogue and the DS is entirely digital. It might make sense to see lines or other noise, but projecting the image seems impossible. I'm not buying it...most TVs get interference from microwaves or vaccuum cleaners or other high powered devices, I have a hard time believing that the DS, which is a low powered DC, digital device would interfere with a television.
SIGFAULT
As a frequent airplane traveller and lover of handheld gaming, the NDS concerns me. I know any device which emits a signal (wireless devices, cell phones espcially) are BANNED for usage on airplanes because they can interfear with the airplane's equipment.
Apparently, the issue is sereous enough that the Nokia N-Gage includes a special "airplane" mode that will not emit any such signals.
Back to the DS, using it on airplanes worries me. I do not think you can turn off the wireless, and last I checked it was constantly checking around itself for the presence of other DSs (IE: Even when single player gaming, it will occasionally send out a signal). This news that the NDS has shielding problems only worries me further - this discounting the fact that I am developing a fear of flying the more I travel. =(
I know that when I fly I can avoid using the DS if it is a problem, but could that ten year old sitting in the back row with no knowledge of these kinds of things end up interfering with the crew - or possibly crashing the plane?
I'm worried, and I hope someone more tech savvy can give me advice. Can or should I use the DS on a plane? Can I use the wireless multiplayer on a plane? Is it enough of an issue that the masses should be instructed NOT to use these on airplanes? Would the problem, if it exists, be eliminated by turning off the wireless abilities of the DS or will the shielding problems still be an issue?
Thank you for your responses.
i get funny lines at the bottom of /. posts
oh wait those are sigs
this sig has been discontinued.
So, does this mean that if I use a DS near my TV it'll suddenly become a touchscreen TV? I've always wanted one of those...
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
the affects of these anamolous waves, it also protects you from other nasty waves as well HERE
Right, but since the device is portable, you can probably interfere other people's TVs. Also, you want to think about what it's emitting that is strong enough to appear on a TV? Not good.
God Bless America. Why? Did it sneeze?
I knew something like this would happen. I suppose it could be used as an advantage for showing somone how good you doing, but your mate would get a bit angry when Pac-Man flicks on halfway through X-Files.
-- There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, And those who don't.
If this is true, then it's likely that airlines or the FAA will ban the DS due to communication concerns. I just hope they don't use this as an excuse to ban all game systems. On the other hand they have been becoming more relaxed recently regarding electronics, so this might not even be an issue.
...plans to release a special antenna for tv sets which could properly receive this mysterious DS signal, and what we're seeing is an unfiltered unamplified signal?
Seriously, I'm not an EE but for this to be true, it would have to mean that the video signal that is being sent to the LCD screen is of the same analog format that the TV's antenna can recieve and decode to display on the TV?
That seems rather far fetched to me. Think about your computer connected to an LCD display via a DVI connector. This is a pure digital signal that an analog TV is simply not going to be able to decode and display.
At best, if you got "interference" from this signal it would look like random garbage.
This has to be a hoax. Or if it is real, then Nintendo had to purposely create this type of signal in the device.
It does indeed leak what can be viewed on a tv set to channel 3. It's barely readable but clearly the video, you can pick out parts of the changing image easily.
Maybe a hardware guy can chime in and tell how these small lcd's typically handle the signal. My ignorance assumed it was a digital signal to the lcd, but clearly it's not. From what I saw, the signal is probably a harmonic at best.
Unless the DS has a tv out why should it ever generate a tv signal? It simply computes a screen and sends it to the lcd. The only way they would have a tv signal is if the computer first generates a digital image, this is then converted to a analog signal (this signal leaks to your tv) then the analog is send to a tv receiver wich decodes the analog signal to the digital signal the lcd needs.
Even if the screen could be send over wifi or usb it would be send as digital data and how the hell should a tv be able to do anything with that?
TV's are also interlaced and lcd's and presumably the DS like all other computers are not.
Can anyone explain how the hell the DS could or would generate a signal that a tv could display?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It's likely that the chip ultimately responsible for the display is not quite a custom fab and contains both an LCD driver and also an S-Video/Composite output as well.
Sort of like how every Radeon chip has a DVI, VGA-RGBA and S-Video outputs, even if not all three are enabled on various models.
There could be a trace with no terminating connector inside that if held near a TV, could radiate that signal to be picked up somewhere after the RF-baseband but before being amplified... or something like that.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
there's an enabled but unused S-Video/Composite NTSC output pin on the video driver chip, which is being picked up by the TV. ... the TV would have to pick that up somewhere post-channel filter but pre-amplification... because the signal in the DS wouldn't also be accidentally RF modulated, that's for sure. But the signal the TV gets from antenna/cable after demodulation is basically the same as a composite output... so there you go.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I think what it is... is that there's a bit of circuitry after the RF input on the TV, after the channel filter, but before the amplifier that would get it to the voltage level of external regular composite input.
If that part of the circuit is being interfered with, then it could overlay the composite signal leaking from teh DS, which gets amplified, and appears in the NTSC feed.
A standard composite input wouldn't need that amplifier so that circuitry in that signal path is probably not sensitive enough to pick up the stray NTSC from the DS.
Similarly, feeding straight composite into your RF does absolutely jack, since you'd have to modulate your NTSC signal for that to work (the RF interface always demodulates, and demodulating a non-modulated signal == garbage)
But maybe other composite/s-video enabled devices can leak a signal in this fashion? Try it!
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Besides, it's just as likely that the TV doesn't meet FCC interference REJECTION standards. Most TVs are made in Taiwan or something these days are are pretty piss poor quality. Even Sony doesn't really make a lot of their own guts anymore. Remember the recent story about the TV that was emitting the spurious EPRB distress signal?
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
Televisions fall under FCC Part B rules. If they pick up stray interference, they are required to "accept the situation". It is the responsibility of the manufacturer and consumer/owner to create a tv less susceptible to interference and/or to adjust their antenna/cable/etc accordingly. The TV owner has no recourse.
The DS is only afoul of FCC rules if it interferences with licensed radio reception equipment(Public safetly, aircraft, ham, etc...).
If somehow it was powerful enough to interfere with the actual TV signal in the air (as opposed to interfering with the TV receiver itself) then thats also a serious matter, but highly unlikely to happen. If someone finds a DS that can jam a TV or Radio broadcast I want it.
So, only when police officers, ambulances, pilots, and hams (and so on...) can't communicate due to a nearby DS is there any FCC issue.
I am really really stupid Sad I have an atena on my tv and I shoved it in the headphone jack and my DS froze Crying or Very sad but then im turned it off and on again then it was ok Smile But now every time it turns on and off it makes more of a click sound Confused -this is one of the funniest things I have ever seen
How the hell do you shield a television? You shield something by putting it in a metal box. Hell yeah, lets shield the TV by putting the tube in a metal box. That'll work well. Only thing is, I won't be able to see it!
A CRT works by glowing when you interfere with the glass end electromagnetically. Hence, you can't shield the glass end, or you can't interfere with it from the inside.
Note that you can shield the tuner, but that won't help completely. Hence even if you've got a shielded tuner, and you stick an unshielded speaker on the top of it, your picture will go funny.
Note that you CAN shield speakers.
Itz obivosicly a feature of the ds that was intentianlalal and it make j00r pensi biggar.
Historically VCRs have been very suseptible to RF interference from Amateur Radio Operators using 2-30MHz signals. The head is quite good at receiving such freqs. Remember that there are two sides to this issue - the emitted signal strength and the TV's suseptibility to undesired signals. It takes both to prevent interference. Most electronics these days are poorly shielded at best.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
I wonder if this has anything to do with it? http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000997020865/