Good heavens what a naive post. The writer really should get out more. Undergraduate logic is fine for late night sophomore discussions over coffee, but is not particularly useful in the real world. In practice, Communism and Democracy are mutually exclusive. Sure a Democracy can vote in a communist government, but until now it appears that once Communists are voted in the only way to get them out is by shooting the buggers. And I say that with a certain amound of real world experience having grown up in Africa. ----- Of course, though on paper or print, this seems heretical. Just happens to be true though.
Shuttleworth - from Cape Town, South Africa, Ubuntu is a Zulu word meaning togetherness / community. He started Thawte security and then sold it to a US company for loads of money. The guy is very wealthy and is not likely to be moved by Microsoft overtures or the promise of making money out of Ubuntu. He was the second space tourist and forked out $20 million for the trip. Seems a pretty sensible and grounded person.
Does anyone have the research funding for the EU, Japan, China, etc.? It would be interesting to see the funding per capita of the US versus other large nations. I don't have the figures, but I suspect the US is still pretty competitive as compared to say the EU. Sure the EU has CERN, but there are labs in the US too
For me the most fascinating part of the postings and replies is not the badly worded description of a student project that may or may not get off the ground in the near future, but the remarkable gullibility of the discussion that simply takes at face value what is said (and debated seriously).
I travel to India frequently (in the software business) and it is clear there claims and boasts overreach somewhat. An example of this is the many companies that claim to have achieved CMM level 5 - when the truth is that the software they produce is average at best (and that with legions of testers)
So I will prefer to wait until the $200K rocket lifts off and then lands on the moon with the $50K robot before I really get too excited about this.
Nice move there - blaming the US for the travails of the third world. You are wrong: the third world is the third world because it is incompetent and corrupt.
So you really believe the Chinese did all this. Good luck to you. Talk about falling back on the unproveable.... 300,000 ancient volumes in the Beijing library. I guess all knowledge is in those books and the West simply borrowed and stole from them via the Mongol hordes around 1200 AD or so. But we don't know that it was stolen because we cannot read Chinese. (Now unveiled for the world to see: Secrets of the Hoo Flung Dung radio transmitter shown in the Beijing archives; the Ping Pong secrets of aircraft design now revealed: Not Pythagoras, but Confucious discoved the Pythagorean theorem and geometry. Arab numerals were stolen from the Chinese). As I said, good luck to you I guess that is how you justify the situation instead of looking at it as objectively as you can. What a joke, what a cultural patriot. Hilarious. It was not the Romans and Greeks and or even the Arabs and Egyptians, but the Chinese. Hooray for the lego men. Have a good day mate. End of conversation.
Thou doth protest too much - you build your case on purely one thing and fight for it dearly as if nothing else mattered. That is because there is nothing else to fight for - occasional Nobel prize winners aside Chinese inventiveness is poor - for a civilzation 5000 years old the inventions are pretty limited.
The Greeks, for example, produced significantly more in their time than than China has during it entire life.
I employ many of them - you should be Ma Shen - or something clearly Steven is only your Western name. Fact is that despite their cleverness they seem to be unable to think out of the box - which I guess what is needed for creating new concepts and ideas. They have a one track view of things (like you and the paper thing). There is a lot of discussion around this area look for example at http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/sft2.htm
Politically incorrect as it is it may be that Chinese and Japanese are genetically not as good at generating new ideas. But they are much better at refinement of ideas and careful close work. Much more focus, patience and concentration than Westerners.
I mean it is odd that one fifth of the world's population, with clearly high intelligence have produced so few good ideas - your examples notwithstanding.
From Wiki
"Papyrus is an early form of paper made from the pith of the papyrus plant, Cyperus papyrus, a wetland sedge that was once abundant in the Nile Delta of Egypt. Papyrus usually grows 2-3 meters (5-9 feet) tall, although some have reached as high as 5 meters (15 feet). Papyrus is first known to have been used in ancient Egypt (at least as far back as the First dynasty), but it was also widely used throughout the Mediterranean region, as well as inland parts of Europe and south-west Asia."
Truth is paper was first manufactured in Egypt and then refined by other cultures including China (no matter what your Chinese history books tell you (I heard the claim to have invented golf too)...... why make such a fuss about paper. What about the thousands and thousands of other inventions from the West
I would not get too excited about all the engineers and scientists China produces. I have worked with them. They simply cannot think out of the box and constantly follow recipes...... as to whether that will change I don't know, but given their pathetic efforts over the last 5,000 years (even compared to the ME and the Arabs work on astronomy and mathematics) I would not worry.
Sure we hear over and over about their discovery of printing, paper and gun powder. Fact is paper was invented by the Egyptians; bottle rockets were about as far as they took gunpowder - and printing did not allow everyone access to knowledge.
Same with the Japanese - they are good at taking something else and refining it, but have produced nothing really of any moment (unless you think the piped in sound of toilets flushing to hide noises is a great invention.)
There is something in the Asian world view that stops them coming up with anything really new (even though as we all know they are smart).
You miss the point entirely - it is and was Western civilization that created the modern world. The US is really an extension of Europe in the sense that it was colonized by Europeans.
And then they picked up and continued.... from the Greeks until now. Sure there were bad patches; sure there were some inventions done by other civilizations, but the bulk of inventions that created the modern world were done by the West.
No other culture comes even close (even if you hate you own culture - as trendy leftists do) - you have to admit that from understanding the world is round to the big bang, inventing calculus and quantum physics and computer chips and transistors and electrodynamics and telescopes..... no other culture comes close.
Firstly paper was invented by the Egyptians - I had an arguement with another Chinese person and so we looked it up and sure enough the Egyptians invented it - remember papyrus.
The printing press was invented by China, but never really exploited - so that is one invention - very good. So they have about 100,000 to go.
As for Chu and the Laser - ok - but they did not invent the laser. If Gabor and his ilk had not invented the laser Chu would not have been able to do his work. There are fundamental inventions - transistor, aeroplane, laser, radio, and then there are parasitic inventions that feed off the main invention. I am waiting for the fundamental inventions not the parasitic ones..........
You say they have just started, but whenever I talk to Chinese they tell me that they have an ancient civilization, 5,000 years old. I guess they are just resting after inventing the printing press.
Spot on - even down to the space suits they have used when sending their people into orbit. As a friend of mine says, "They are good at what they are good at".
They are good a copying, but nothing much has come out of the ancient kingdom - despite all the hype about their old civilization - no doubt there will be a flurry of comments on them inventing many things - but before you write do the following. Look around the room and see what inventions these guys have produced - from the light bulb, to the transistor, to the computer, to the iPod, to the LCD you are using. Sure they are good at refining things, but name one modern invention or discovery they have produced.
According to Michael Sheridan in a recent article in the Australian "The Chinese plan to build no fewer than 500 new coal-fired power stations, adding to some 2,000, most of them unmodernised, that spew smoke, carbon dioxide, and sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere".
"..... there are 21,000 coal mines in the country and coal output has doubled in the last five years. China's Shanxi province produces more coal than Britain, Russia, and Germany combined".
I know this is a shock for Americans (especially liberal ones), but you guys will soon no longer be the cause of the planet going to hell (if it indeed is).
Truth is the investigation of the root causes of global warming has moved from scientific investigation to a kind of religious cult - people like Lomborg attempting to simply clarify the discussion are villified and even investigated for not using 'proper scientific method'. Almost a modern version of the inquisition where even questioning the received wisdom is viewed as scientific blasphemy.
Interesting that Kate Martin is more exercised by the bill which will probably be limmited anyway by congress than the implicit curtailing of free speech by the Muslim radicals threatening violence against anybody who dares to publish a simple cartoon.
Ask yourself how many times have you seen the Mohammed cartoons published in American media.
Simple fact is Martin is extremely left wing and simply wants to attack the Republicans. I mean in the second world war there was significant curtailing of 'free speech' and, yep, we survived and did not become a police state.
What a patronizing post: as though you have a depth of understanding that no one else has. Your posting has a marvellous sophomore feel to it.
Just a thought about many of these sad issues of fights about land. When the land was 'taken' by one side or another there were far far fewer people. In the last 50 years, for example, the population of Palestine has increased exponentially. SO the battle for resources, and hence the anger has grown.
In the interests of balance perhaps a leftist organization should offer money to report on right wing professors on campus.
After all the bounty hunters were not attempting to stifle free speech, but simply to draw attention to a particular bias. It is always useful to understand someone's bias.
Unfortunately the reporters on right wing professors would not make much money as about 85% - 90% of academics are left wing to a greater or lesser extent. (Ranging from keen Democrats to over the top loonies like Ward Churchill.)
That's easy, just push out the project deadline. Just make it more realistic. Everyone will be overjoyed. The entire app development team will be ecstatic.
To be really accurate the film should have Chinese and Indian actors since the white race is self extinguishing through birth control, abortions, self loathing and false guilt. They will be a thing of the past well before 400 years in the future.
(In the movie a few whites are kept alive in invention farms to continue inventing stuff for the other races.)
I reckon Charlize should have been replaced by sexy Bipasha Basu or similar.
Would have been far more realistic.
The $100 wind up computer is a classic case of what tech liberals think the 3rd world needs. The digitial divide is something that exists in the mind of guilt riden college professors. As always totally missing the point. For starters:
1. Try food, shelter, running water, some form of school and a job.
2. Then try a wind up radio (like those available in Africa)so I can hear what is happening in the broader world even though I don't have electricity or batteries
3. Then a cellphone so I can talk to other people (and because wireline phones are almost non-existant). I also need some kind of solar panel charging for the phone
4. Then and only then am I interested in a computer - but don't make it simpler than those of Westerners 'cos that insults my intelligence.
So Barrett is right, but probably for the wrong reasons
Just to give some context. The Liberal government will be brought down in the next few days and an election early next year is a certainty. So the Liberals are recruiting for voters.
They do this in two ways:
1. By using scare tactics that the other party - the Conservatives - will align Canada with the US and create a two tier medical system (again like the States). For years the Canadians have been fed horror stories about US medicine.
2. By encouraging even more third world immigration into Canada and expediting anyone who, even remotely, appears to have appropriate qualifications. Why? Well immigrants vote almost exclusively for the Liberal and are scared of the 'red kneck' Conservatives.
So.... this is simply a cynical attempt to get a few last minute voters into the Liberal camp. Will it work. Of course, the Libs have been in power for more than 50 of the last 70 years. Despite the amazingly good press Canada gets from the liberal US press (Liberals, liberals - see the connection) Canada is as close to a one party state as a modern democracy can be.
For the US readers. Sorry to disappoint, but this law is not really intended for you.
For the record I live in Canada.
Slashdot Mirror
Good heavens what a naive post. The writer really should get out more. Undergraduate logic is fine for late night sophomore discussions over coffee, but is not particularly useful in the real world. In practice, Communism and Democracy are mutually exclusive. Sure a Democracy can vote in a communist government, but until now it appears that once Communists are voted in the only way to get them out is by shooting the buggers. And I say that with a certain amound of real world experience having grown up in Africa. ----- Of course, though on paper or print, this seems heretical. Just happens to be true though.
Shuttleworth - from Cape Town, South Africa, Ubuntu is a Zulu word meaning togetherness / community. He started Thawte security and then sold it to a US company for loads of money. The guy is very wealthy and is not likely to be moved by Microsoft overtures or the promise of making money out of Ubuntu. He was the second space tourist and forked out $20 million for the trip. Seems a pretty sensible and grounded person.
Does anyone have the research funding for the EU, Japan, China, etc.? It would be interesting to see the funding per capita of the US versus other large nations. I don't have the figures, but I suspect the US is still pretty competitive as compared to say the EU. Sure the EU has CERN, but there are labs in the US too
For me the most fascinating part of the postings and replies is not the badly worded description of a student project that may or may not get off the ground in the near future, but the remarkable gullibility of the discussion that simply takes at face value what is said (and debated seriously). I travel to India frequently (in the software business) and it is clear there claims and boasts overreach somewhat. An example of this is the many companies that claim to have achieved CMM level 5 - when the truth is that the software they produce is average at best (and that with legions of testers) So I will prefer to wait until the $200K rocket lifts off and then lands on the moon with the $50K robot before I really get too excited about this.
Try telling your colleagues and boss at work not to bother sending email as it is dead.
Nice move there - blaming the US for the travails of the third world. You are wrong: the third world is the third world because it is incompetent and corrupt.
So you really believe the Chinese did all this. Good luck to you. Talk about falling back on the unproveable.... 300,000 ancient volumes in the Beijing library. I guess all knowledge is in those books and the West simply borrowed and stole from them via the Mongol hordes around 1200 AD or so. But we don't know that it was stolen because we cannot read Chinese. (Now unveiled for the world to see: Secrets of the Hoo Flung Dung radio transmitter shown in the Beijing archives; the Ping Pong secrets of aircraft design now revealed: Not Pythagoras, but Confucious discoved the Pythagorean theorem and geometry. Arab numerals were stolen from the Chinese). As I said, good luck to you I guess that is how you justify the situation instead of looking at it as objectively as you can. What a joke, what a cultural patriot. Hilarious. It was not the Romans and Greeks and or even the Arabs and Egyptians, but the Chinese. Hooray for the lego men. Have a good day mate. End of conversation.
Thou doth protest too much - you build your case on purely one thing and fight for it dearly as if nothing else mattered. That is because there is nothing else to fight for - occasional Nobel prize winners aside Chinese inventiveness is poor - for a civilzation 5000 years old the inventions are pretty limited. The Greeks, for example, produced significantly more in their time than than China has during it entire life. I employ many of them - you should be Ma Shen - or something clearly Steven is only your Western name. Fact is that despite their cleverness they seem to be unable to think out of the box - which I guess what is needed for creating new concepts and ideas. They have a one track view of things (like you and the paper thing). There is a lot of discussion around this area look for example at http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/sft2.htm Politically incorrect as it is it may be that Chinese and Japanese are genetically not as good at generating new ideas. But they are much better at refinement of ideas and careful close work. Much more focus, patience and concentration than Westerners. I mean it is odd that one fifth of the world's population, with clearly high intelligence have produced so few good ideas - your examples notwithstanding.
From Wiki "Papyrus is an early form of paper made from the pith of the papyrus plant, Cyperus papyrus, a wetland sedge that was once abundant in the Nile Delta of Egypt. Papyrus usually grows 2-3 meters (5-9 feet) tall, although some have reached as high as 5 meters (15 feet). Papyrus is first known to have been used in ancient Egypt (at least as far back as the First dynasty), but it was also widely used throughout the Mediterranean region, as well as inland parts of Europe and south-west Asia." Truth is paper was first manufactured in Egypt and then refined by other cultures including China (no matter what your Chinese history books tell you (I heard the claim to have invented golf too) ...... why make such a fuss about paper. What about the thousands and thousands of other inventions from the West
I would not get too excited about all the engineers and scientists China produces. I have worked with them. They simply cannot think out of the box and constantly follow recipes...... as to whether that will change I don't know, but given their pathetic efforts over the last 5,000 years (even compared to the ME and the Arabs work on astronomy and mathematics) I would not worry. Sure we hear over and over about their discovery of printing, paper and gun powder. Fact is paper was invented by the Egyptians; bottle rockets were about as far as they took gunpowder - and printing did not allow everyone access to knowledge. Same with the Japanese - they are good at taking something else and refining it, but have produced nothing really of any moment (unless you think the piped in sound of toilets flushing to hide noises is a great invention.) There is something in the Asian world view that stops them coming up with anything really new (even though as we all know they are smart).
You miss the point entirely - it is and was Western civilization that created the modern world. The US is really an extension of Europe in the sense that it was colonized by Europeans. And then they picked up and continued.... from the Greeks until now. Sure there were bad patches; sure there were some inventions done by other civilizations, but the bulk of inventions that created the modern world were done by the West. No other culture comes even close (even if you hate you own culture - as trendy leftists do) - you have to admit that from understanding the world is round to the big bang, inventing calculus and quantum physics and computer chips and transistors and electrodynamics and telescopes ..... no other culture comes close.
Firstly paper was invented by the Egyptians - I had an arguement with another Chinese person and so we looked it up and sure enough the Egyptians invented it - remember papyrus. The printing press was invented by China, but never really exploited - so that is one invention - very good. So they have about 100,000 to go. As for Chu and the Laser - ok - but they did not invent the laser. If Gabor and his ilk had not invented the laser Chu would not have been able to do his work. There are fundamental inventions - transistor, aeroplane, laser, radio, and then there are parasitic inventions that feed off the main invention. I am waiting for the fundamental inventions not the parasitic ones.......... You say they have just started, but whenever I talk to Chinese they tell me that they have an ancient civilization, 5,000 years old. I guess they are just resting after inventing the printing press.
Spot on - even down to the space suits they have used when sending their people into orbit. As a friend of mine says, "They are good at what they are good at".
They are good a copying, but nothing much has come out of the ancient kingdom - despite all the hype about their old civilization - no doubt there will be a flurry of comments on them inventing many things - but before you write do the following. Look around the room and see what inventions these guys have produced - from the light bulb, to the transistor, to the computer, to the iPod, to the LCD you are using. Sure they are good at refining things, but name one modern invention or discovery they have produced.
According to Michael Sheridan in a recent article in the Australian "The Chinese plan to build no fewer than 500 new coal-fired power stations, adding to some 2,000, most of them unmodernised, that spew smoke, carbon dioxide, and sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere". "..... there are 21,000 coal mines in the country and coal output has doubled in the last five years. China's Shanxi province produces more coal than Britain, Russia, and Germany combined". I know this is a shock for Americans (especially liberal ones), but you guys will soon no longer be the cause of the planet going to hell (if it indeed is). Truth is the investigation of the root causes of global warming has moved from scientific investigation to a kind of religious cult - people like Lomborg attempting to simply clarify the discussion are villified and even investigated for not using 'proper scientific method'. Almost a modern version of the inquisition where even questioning the received wisdom is viewed as scientific blasphemy.
"I am a geek, but I have seriously problems with math ability"
A contradiction in terms - like a musician who can't play a musical instrument.
You may have tinnitis - ringing in the ears - from all the loud pop concerts and iPod sessions.... and you are just blaming the poor innocent neighbor
Have you noticed that all people with the name Al are great invetors. Al Gore invented the Internet. Perhaps he is of Arab ancestory
Interesting that Kate Martin is more exercised by the bill which will probably be limmited anyway by congress than the implicit curtailing of free speech by the Muslim radicals threatening violence against anybody who dares to publish a simple cartoon. Ask yourself how many times have you seen the Mohammed cartoons published in American media. Simple fact is Martin is extremely left wing and simply wants to attack the Republicans. I mean in the second world war there was significant curtailing of 'free speech' and, yep, we survived and did not become a police state.
What a patronizing post: as though you have a depth of understanding that no one else has. Your posting has a marvellous sophomore feel to it. Just a thought about many of these sad issues of fights about land. When the land was 'taken' by one side or another there were far far fewer people. In the last 50 years, for example, the population of Palestine has increased exponentially. SO the battle for resources, and hence the anger has grown.
In the interests of balance perhaps a leftist organization should offer money to report on right wing professors on campus. After all the bounty hunters were not attempting to stifle free speech, but simply to draw attention to a particular bias. It is always useful to understand someone's bias. Unfortunately the reporters on right wing professors would not make much money as about 85% - 90% of academics are left wing to a greater or lesser extent. (Ranging from keen Democrats to over the top loonies like Ward Churchill.)
That's easy, just push out the project deadline. Just make it more realistic. Everyone will be overjoyed. The entire app development team will be ecstatic.
To be really accurate the film should have Chinese and Indian actors since the white race is self extinguishing through birth control, abortions, self loathing and false guilt. They will be a thing of the past well before 400 years in the future. (In the movie a few whites are kept alive in invention farms to continue inventing stuff for the other races.) I reckon Charlize should have been replaced by sexy Bipasha Basu or similar. Would have been far more realistic.
The $100 wind up computer is a classic case of what tech liberals think the 3rd world needs. The digitial divide is something that exists in the mind of guilt riden college professors. As always totally missing the point. For starters: 1. Try food, shelter, running water, some form of school and a job. 2. Then try a wind up radio (like those available in Africa)so I can hear what is happening in the broader world even though I don't have electricity or batteries 3. Then a cellphone so I can talk to other people (and because wireline phones are almost non-existant). I also need some kind of solar panel charging for the phone 4. Then and only then am I interested in a computer - but don't make it simpler than those of Westerners 'cos that insults my intelligence. So Barrett is right, but probably for the wrong reasons
Just to give some context. The Liberal government will be brought down in the next few days and an election early next year is a certainty. So the Liberals are recruiting for voters. They do this in two ways: 1. By using scare tactics that the other party - the Conservatives - will align Canada with the US and create a two tier medical system (again like the States). For years the Canadians have been fed horror stories about US medicine. 2. By encouraging even more third world immigration into Canada and expediting anyone who, even remotely, appears to have appropriate qualifications. Why? Well immigrants vote almost exclusively for the Liberal and are scared of the 'red kneck' Conservatives. So.... this is simply a cynical attempt to get a few last minute voters into the Liberal camp. Will it work. Of course, the Libs have been in power for more than 50 of the last 70 years. Despite the amazingly good press Canada gets from the liberal US press (Liberals, liberals - see the connection) Canada is as close to a one party state as a modern democracy can be. For the US readers. Sorry to disappoint, but this law is not really intended for you. For the record I live in Canada.
By the time he is twenty one he will have invented new forms of copying Western technology that will defy the imagination.