Slashdot Mirror
Canada Moves to Keep Skilled Workers
ashitaka writes "Just in time for all those who have vowed to leave the United States in response to government policies and mainstream cultural malaise, the Canadian government is announcing a C$700 million initiative to help skilled workers stay in Canada and become citizens. If you had the choice, would you really uproot to a new country especially one where the lifestyle isn't that much different than your own?"
If you had the choice, would you really uproot to a new country especially one where the lifestyle isn't that much different than your own?
It seems to me that a lifestyle that includes warm weather would be reason enough.
is that you have to dress like a mountie.
The question, however, is what is then going to happen to the immigration laws. Presumably they are going to have to do something to prevent just anyone jumping in and claiming. Will this preclude the majority of people? Will they lower the immigration requirements? Who can say?
~HTP~ Hug that tux
Having done alot of travel to the US, both for business and pleasure, let me assure you Canada's lifestyle is far different. We live in a much more secure, comfortable and friendly environment than most places in the United States. We have very little crime (Toronto, our largest city, has about 70 murders a year), we have the best health care system in the world, we have tonnes of green land, and are well respected by most of the World.
Psst... I think the similarity is part of the atraction....
I'd move to Alabama rather than Canada just for the weather
You just got troll'd!
Given that I travel up to B.C. about twice a year, and that I'm going to be looking for employment up north after I graduate (two years down the road), I say 'Hell, yes!'
No worries about healthcare, low crime, fantastic local beers, hockey in the winter, Tim Hortons...er, what am I not supposed to like, again?
--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy
For those unaware of Canadian politics, the government faces a non-confidence vote Monday or Tuesday. It is expected to fall and call a December election.
For campaign reasons, the government has announced a flurry of new spending over the last week, most of which is expected to never materialise, whether the governing party wins again or not.
Are there jobs available in reasonable numbers and at reasonable rates for, umm Java/J2EE programmers? Sysadmins? Systems architects? Other geek professions?
I'd go in a heartbeat if I could get my girlfriend to uproot.
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Rel
People leave Canada for a country with a better economy, and the government's solution is to spend more tax money! Brilliant move, eh?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
so you guys really like computers? you guys like to talk about lunix?
Slashdotters: You are all a bunch of faggots.
Do you hear me, you repulsive faggots? NO DIGG.
Well respected? Maybe but I keep sensing that other countries find us about as annoying as a nat flying around your head.
Saying that, I love this country and would never move.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
As a Canadian living and working in the States, I wish the Canadian government would have done more to keep skilled citizens rather than attracting skilled immigrants. Unfortunately it is really just too easy to max out in the Canadian market place and the only option is to move south.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
After over three quarters of my state voted with the fucking Klan to write discrimination into our motherfucking state constitution, I'm quite ready to leave this state.
:P
Any takers for a drug-design oriented chemist with high-level systems administration and Unix development skills? Texas sure doesn't seem to want to hold onto its 21st century workforce, favoring 12th century social mores instead.
I guess that rules out Streisand and the Baldwins.
If American citizens are frustrated and annoyed with their government's behavior, can someone please explain how expatriating will do anything but make the problem worse?
If they have any interest in achieving their goal, shouldn't they be sending a loud message to the rest of the world, inviting like-minded individuals to come live there instead? Or perhaps convince their neighbors to read a newspaper?
Oh, wait. That would involve effort. Never mind - I forgot who I was talking about.
--
As an American I am in a better position to fix the problems than anyone. If I move to Canada (and even if I become a Canadian subject, or whatever) I have given up on influencing the course of events because I don't want to deal with some sort of guilt over my failure to do so recently?
We don't know how much worse things might have been, either. We say, and it's true, that the domestic opposition didn't prevent the administration from invading Iraq. Well, that was a failure. There is literally no way of knowing what else they might have done if given free reign - Miers on the SCOTUS is only the start of it.
In case you haven't been paying attention - the two last US elections have been very close, and their outcomes (especially in 2000) have had a tremendous impact on the rest of human history. In spite of those election results, public opinion here in the US still plays a big role in determining what the administration can and cannot get away with. If you're really concerned with human civilization, and not with melodrama, you move to a purple state, not to Canada.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
Well i'm not in the US, i'm in the UK, although the same logic applies... That said, we haven't exactly done a grand job of keeping anyone out anyway...
~HTP~ Hug that tux
Just as I am researching what it takes to immigrate to Canada, job opportunities, quality of life, housing prices, etc.
I come from Europe and, no offense to our American friends, find Canada a much more appealing choice than the USA - exactly because I perceive Canada and Canadian mentality to be much closer to a European mindset.
I admit this may just be a whim, but coming from a country where everybody under 40 years of age is suffering from financial rape from the older generation, Canada sure does look appealing.
Nowadays a guy can go a whole day in Toronto without ever seeing a single igloo.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
>>Canada Moves to Keep Skilled Workers
No one can move an entire country, not even Superman!
Feel free to leave this "hellhole." Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
"Ottawa will spend $700 million over the coming years in a two-pronged initiative to make it easier for skilled immigrants to stay in the country while at the same tackling a big backlog of people waiting to get into Canada."
Also:
"Immigration Minister Joe Volpe will join the flurry of pre-election promises with his announcement today."
The minority government in Canada is about to fall, this is just one of the many, many promises the Liberal Party is making before they lose a no confidence vote next week, think of all these spending promises as the beginning of their campaign and react accordingly.
I'm a Canadian (Quebecois actually) and plan on moving to France in a couple of months. So long, square heads! No government subsidies will keep me here!
All Hail Discordia. Hail Eris. Fnord.
I would argue that the united states has a much better healthcare system, based on my experiences so far with canadian facilities.
Tim Hortons though, its fantastic.
Idle hands are the devil's workshop, but idle minds are much worse
...and that's if your HMO doesn't deny the request for a specialist outright. And THAT's if you have health insurance at all, which many don't.
I've already uprooted and left the US for another country.
Japan in this case.
I just couldn't get past America re-electing the failed
ideologues in the White House. Pity the people have seen the err of
their ways all too late. (ref: Bush's declining approval rating)
Barring stumbling into marriage over here, I can't see myself
staying forever though. A place like Canada is *extremely* attractive
to me on a number of levels - it's similarity to America being just one.
Having spent a bit of time in Toronto and Vancouver, they're both places
I can easily see myself living in. They're not New York or Tokyo, mind
you... but they do seem to be everything America believes itself to be -
with Jesus wonderfully absent.
The only problem I can see being an issue is that I don't particularly
care for hockey... Is that a deal-breaker on naturalization?
If you had the choice, would you really uproot to a new country especially one where the lifestyle isn't that much different than your own?
:P
It's not like people are being asked to move across the border to Mexico. There's a world of difference. The Canadian cockroach speaks English and French when saying, "You fat, ugly American!"
I say "NO!" You are either mis-nformed or lying. You [once] had the best health care system in the world, but you are now near the middle I should say. I know because my relative who is a Canadian citizen, had to go India for hip replacement surgery. And thousands are. Yes, and the SARS crisis was mis-handled. The experts in the health care system admitted incopetence with SARS.
For skin surgeries, people are going to Mexico. The aboriginals, who are the real Canadians, are being left on reserves with contaminated water. Do not tell me the problem was solved because it came a decade late! Yet the government has been running surpluses for that long.
By the way, how are you treating the skilled immigrants in Canada? Even those who speak and write better English are not treated that well. But everyone knows they are more educated and carry a better work ethic than those they find on the streets.
One thing I find good in Canada is Toronto. It's multiculturalism is awesome. On Toronto streets, you see all shades of people, and on the subway, it's hard to hear English. That's what I see in Toronto and it's good.
And here is the U.S.A. reply http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article ?AID=/20051126/BUSINESS/511260473
I can see this initiative as targeting the citizenry of the United States. It makes perfect sense to target them, and here's why:
US citizens already speak english, work with dollars and cents, drive cars on the right, etc. At the core, they're basically the same (less some cultural differences) as Canadians. Less government money spent on teaching them english or how to drive.
Right now the Canadian dollar is at $0.85USD. The minimum wage in Ontario is at $7.45CDN/hour for an adult (slightly less for people who serve food/beverages and are subject to gratuities), which is more than $6.25USD/hour. Bear in mind too, that minimum wage is typically only paid to entry level jobs, and most other jobs pay more. I've heard horror stories of US Wal-Mart workers making maybe $5/hour - come up here and get a pay raise!
Come on up boys, We've got plenty of room!
Frink: Nice try floyd, but you were designed for scrubbing, and scrubbing is what you shall do.
The real question is: should the US try to follow suit, and move to keep its skilled foreigners?
You may recall the Congress recently moved to cut H1-B visas significantly. It is ever harder to get a non-immigrant student visa to come to US. The backlog on some types of immigrant visas is currently 10+ YEARS.
Is the legal immigration not the answer to outsourcing? Instead of screaming "they took our jobs", why not consider what happens now: the skilled foreigners cannot come in, so they stay at home and take our jobs by working for pennies an hour. Is it not better to bring them here so they can ask for fair wages.
Sure.
Why not? America has become hostile towards it's citizens, I mean obviously the government has chosen to bite off the hand that feeds it.
What with all the outsourcing and offshoring and imported crap from third world countries, it would seem obvious that the US Government doesn't care about the people, only about the profiteers on Wall Street and the Elite Banksters that pad the pockets of the politicians that make the laws that keep making the rich richer and the poor poorer.
If there is a country that is intelligent enough to understand that the well being of ALL it's citizens is the key to it's survival then I would say that sounds like a pretty good place to be.
Pick a season then. In the summer it's about 25-30c (77-86f), in the winter I've been as low as -40c/f, but generally we're in the -10 to -20 (14 to -4) range or milder. Right now it's about 4c (39.2f)
What's your feeling about people immigrating TO the United States? If one applies your position equally to all countries of the world, nobody should ever leave their native land. Are you advocating that? This country is largely populated by immigrants and those descended from immigrants. I don't know the details of your family background, but chances are they were immigrants at some point. Should they have stayed in their home country? Should you have instead been born and grown up there instead of here?
Please note that these changes are directed at people already in Canada - foreign students, for example. Canada already has the highest levels of immigration in the world from outside the country (at least on a per-capita basis).
At the core, they're basically the same (less some cultural differences) as Canadians...
You can't say that Canadians are "basically the same" as Americans simply because you drive your car on the right hand side of the road. That is like saying you are "basically the same" as a polar bear because you are both mammals.
Canadians and Americans are very different when it comes to politics. What is considered a liberal politician in the U.S. would normally be called a conservitive politican in Canada. Canadian citizens generally swing far more to the left than Americans on most issues.
There are also huge differences in economic policy ond diplomatic policies between the two contries. There are also huge culterual differences between them, mostly due to the fact that Canada was founded by people who *wanted* to remain loyal to the Crown, while Americanw as founded based on the idea of seperating from the Crown.
Oh, and Canada has less fat people per capita :)
What I am curious about is what Canadians think about immigration.
I know 30% of Americans are really against immigration, maybe 10% strongly favor immigration, and the other 60% do not give a crap either way. But the 30% against are vocal enough to skew the overall public and government oppinion, so that in general Americans are against immigration.
Do Canadians mostly want foreigners coming in?
The Canadian government wants to rob the citizens of $700,000,000 and give it to programmers. Why not just arm yourself, go to your neighbor's house in the U.S., and take their money?
It is the same thing. Don't believe the hype, read deeper.
The question of living in Canada vs USA depends a lot on your skill set (job qualifications), home language, tolerance of bad weather, politics, and intoxicational preference.
Let's say you have a good job skill set and can get a job more or less either north or south of the 49th parallel. If you speak French as a native language, you'll most likely feel more comfortable in Quebec. If you speak Spanish as a home language, Miami, Los Angeles, or New York would be more confortable. This issue is neutral for native English or other language speakers, eh?
If you don't really like the cold, but don't mind dark gloomy rainy days (say you're a goth programmer or gamer), Vancouver BC would definitely beat the rest of Canada, New England, California, or Florida (too much sunshine).
Fascists, either Christian or racial, will definitely feel more at home in the USA. It's your kind of place.
Cannibus lovers, ('Stoners' to everyone else) will be more comfortable in British Columbia than anywhere in the USA, except possibly Maui. Not even the Humboldt Thunderbolt beats the BC bud. And you're less likely to have a Hummerload of psycho Iraqi vets kicking in your door and sticking machine guns or tasers in your kid's faces at 3am if you smoke in British Columbia instead of the USA. That's important to some people, less to others.
In general, everything that you buy in a store is cheaper in the USA. Canada has insane sales taxes on top of high prices. This is the big issue for most people deciding USA vs. Canada. Big income taxes too. However the money collected in taxes mostly gets back to the Canadian people in some form, whereas in the US taxes paid go mostly to giant corporations with fat government contracts.
However if you're gonna get sick, try to get sick in Canada instead. With the new bankruptcy laws in the USA, along with a corrupt and insanely expensive health care system there, you'll be in debt forever if you need medical care in the USA. Like if you get shot. The US has more guns than people, Canada doesn't.
Patriotism? Yes, nice concept in general, but it isn't like faith in a Diety.
Stay here and FIX this bungled mess? Listen: 12 months ago you were all lambasting me for daring to speak against His Holiness Bush's Purity, the same guy who's now in the low 30's approval-ratings-wise. The day "should we start pre-emptive wars for the hell of it? (yes/no)" and "should we drop DRM? (OK/not sure yet)" and "should we ban anybody who makes more than $100,000/year from running for political office? (Hell, yes/hell yes)" show up on the ballot is the day I know I can vote and actually AFFECT something in this highjacked country. Picking between siamese-twin shit-for-brains (Bush AND Kerry) is not a choice. Here, I'll give America one last chance: "Hey, howzabouts we tear down all the football stadiums and build libraries in their place and pay the teachers the football player's salaries so we'll have an educated generation and have an OPTION besides outsourcing all our programming to Bangladesh? Anybody with me?" Crickets: *chirp* *chirp* *chirp*
Worry about how bad things are in Canada? Hey, I talk to Canadians all the time. Any country where the citizens' stress level sounds about 100 times lower than mine is worth a shot. Shit, if I'm wrong, I can move back. Or elsewhere. It's a big world.
And I LOVE snow!!! It's better than SMOG!!!
And what does it tell you when a country CARES enough to spend money to keep their technical jobs there? For all the US government cares, we could all sling french fries. They'll just raise the minimum wage and we'll all just keep buying shit on our McSalaries - with the prices carefully rigged so that we're all just slightly in debt all of our lives.
If American citizens are frustrated and annoyed with their government's behavior, can someone please explain how expatriating will do anything but make the problem worse?
:X
That's like saying If Windows users are frustrated and annoyed with the viruses/trojans/crash that they get, can someone please explain how moving to OS-X will do any good?
**runs away from OSX Zealots**
The attracting of skilled workers to Canada is a bit of a scam. It turns out the only credentials which "count" in practice are ones mainly of Canadian and/or American sources. Sometimes credentials of British, Australian or Western European sources may get by. Otherwise you're shit out of luck. Many folks with credentials from other places, are relegated to working at McDonalds or other minimum wage type jobs. Some are willing to tough it out by going back to school to get Canadian approved credentials.
Main reason why immigration to Canada isn't very popular for "skilled workers" is because it's harder to find work in comparison to the United States. If you don't have Canadian and/or American experience and credentials, most employers will just delete your resume.
I highly discourage any skilled workers from immigrating to Canada, unless you're willing to work blue collar jobs and/or are willing to go back to school to get Canadian approved credentials.
Attracting "skilled" foreign workers and then relegating them to blue collar or minimum wage jobs is largely a waste of resources and time.
For me the less than liberal policies on Vitamins and other
supplements (which I take to specifically avoid anyone's health
care system for as long as possible) would preclude my moving there.
Also, if people are 'cheaper to employ' there, then you can be that
means your salary will be lower.
Nah, for me I would rather not have to pay, out of my paycheck, health
care costs for people that smoke, don't exercise, and believe knee replacement
surgery is the answer to arthritis...
But Vancouver IS nice to visit in the summer...
Hockey. 'Nuff said.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
So why am I not yet living there myself? I am just too lazy to leave for now. Also, I wonder if enough Americans moved there, would we eventually mess the place up and make it an extention of our own country? Ohwell, to fully grasp the reality of this subject, I think you would need the experiance of being a resident both in the United States and in Canada. Even then, keep in mind that not all of the United States is alike, certainly different places in Canada must have some sort of social/economical distinctions from other places. Okay, I think this post is long enough now, I will stop here.
Why thats a slander against Canada, eh! Take off you hoser!!
or you'll be fucked now that Walmart includes physical labor in all job descriptions to screen out employees who actually use their company-supplied health insurance
I'm a Canadian. You Merkans would hate it here. This place sucks. Don't come here. We regularly eat children and stab puppies for sport. It's cold and everyone has a dog-sled. This is a horrible purgatory. I beg of you, please don't come here.
Where do you live that has warm weather and the following crieteria as well: -Wont be flooded by 2050 via global warming -Doesn't get 20+ Hurricanes each year -Is not a police state. You can have your weather!
The MRI thing is a myth. I work at University Health Network. At the Princess Margaret Hospital, the MRI staff works in two 10-hour shifts. The delay is for people who do not want to go in before 9am or after 6pm. My mother had to have one and she was booked for 8pm appointment merely four days later! Yes, convenience is great, but sometimes is not an option.
But then again, outside Toronto it may be a different story.
no offense, but what is a $3.50USD programme going to do to help anything?
Don't kick the baby...
Don't take it personal though, eh?
It seems a reasonably fair system. Canada seems to be keen to embrace skilled professionals, an area perhaps where other countries are lacking. One of the key things to see is that the UK (where i am) seems to let just about everybody through, so you take the bad with the good. In the US of course, only the cream of the professional crop make it, and some of them don't. If you don't know people there, you're screwed. With the canadian system as described it seems they manage to get the good without the bad.
~HTP~ Hug that tux
I'm a US resident and citizen, born and bred. I had to wait 3 months for a dermatologist appointment. I had to wait 4 months for an oncologist. I had to wait 6 months for an endocrinologist. I had to wait 2 months for a dentist appointment. My serpents got same-day service for their ills - ninety year old pythons need lots of medical attention.
Not much difference in capitalism or near-socialism as far as I can tell
Turns out, income taxes for median incomes (roughly CAD$52k in the US per household, roughly CAD$56k in Canada per household) are more or less equivalent dependant on province vs. state. You'd be better off anywhere in Canada than, say, Texas. If you make 60k or less, you'll probably pay less tax in Canada. If you make 60k or more, you'll pay more. Particularly if you're a landowner... Canada doesn't give big tax breaks for land ownership, which is unfortunate... but you can get a significant portion of dividend income tax free, so if you're getting started in the investor class, you've got some advantages.
GST does make things more expensive, but cost of living varies so widely based on region both in Canada and the US that it's essentially useless to make comparisons.
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
As an European who moved here 15 years ago, the culture is significantly closer to the American neighbours than our (yes, I'm Canadian now) European (British/French) origins. When I moved here, I was expecting pictures of the Queen everywhere and people sipping tea. Instead we had people celebrate the Blue Jays winning the "World" series of Baseball, the quintensential American sport.
I've been to many US states, and while folks have always been very friendly towards me, I don't think I could ever live there myself. New Mexico and Florida are my two favourite states.
America is just as socialist as Canada or any European country.
...). In Canada and most European countries, the socialism is more towards things like a health care system, welfare state, etc ...
...
Only difference is that most of the American style "socialism" is more towards the military and defense sector (ie. Halliburton, Bechtel, etc
America has all kinds of socialistic institutions like:
The Federal Reserve Bank,
Fannie Mae,
Freddie Mac,
Social Security,
The US Postal Service,
Pension Benefit Guarnaty Corporation,
Medicare,
Medicaid,
Amtrak,
etc
They are about to lose even more politic terrain and they want to fix in a month what they haven't being able to do fot 12 years.
e ologger3_143kbps_2005_11_18_1132346633.wmv
People are leaving canada by hordes: sub-employment, crappy employers (remember the telus and cbc disputes?, what about the crimes at the packing plant in alberta?), crappy politicians, steep taxes and crappy weather are just part of the reasons, check every canadian newspaper on line and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Not to mention the billions of dollars the government makes on immigration fees, that's your catch.
And if you are black you'll sure know what the meaning of the word minority is.
Enough said.
I forgot, if you want ot see the kind of jerk the immigration minister is chek this link:
mms://ctvbroadcast.ctv.ca/video/2005/11/18/ctvvid
I think there is also a rate of 300+/city small business that go bankrupt every year in canada, so go figure.
"We've been planning for the Big Move from the US to Canada for some time. To ease the transition, we did relocate to a border state - we can flee easily in case of...ah...crisis."
"Patriotism? Yes, nice concept in general, but it isn't like faith in a Diety."
"Stay here and FIX this bungled mess? Listen: 12 months ago you were all lambasting me for daring to speak against His Holiness Bush's Purity, the same guy who's now in the low 30's approval-ratings-wise. The day "should we start pre-emptive wars for the hell of it? (yes/no)" and "should we drop DRM? (OK/not sure yet)" and "should we ban anybody who makes more than $100,000/year from running for political office? (Hell, yes/hell yes)" show up on the ballot is the day I know I can vote and actually AFFECT something in this highjacked country. Picking between siamese-twin shit-for-brains (Bush AND Kerry) is not a choice. Here, I'll give America one last chance: "Hey, howzabouts we tear down all the football stadiums and build libraries in their place and pay the teachers the football player's salaries so we'll have an educated generation and have an OPTION besides outsourcing all our programming to Bangladesh? Anybody with me?" Crickets: *chirp* *chirp* *chirp*"
"Worry about how bad things are in Canada? Hey, I talk to Canadians all the time. Any country where the citizens' stress level sounds about 100 times lower than mine is worth a shot. Shit, if I'm wrong, I can move back. Or elsewhere. It's a big world."
"And I LOVE snow!!! It's better than SMOG!!!"
"And what does it tell you when a country CARES enough to spend money to keep their technical jobs there? For all the US government cares, we could all sling french fries. They'll just raise the minimum wage and we'll all just keep buying shit on our McSalaries - with the prices carefully rigged so that we're all just slightly in debt all of our lives."
PS This post was a logical feeling out in answer to the question posed by the article. "Flamebait" means to deliberately post provocative comments in order to incite arguments. And who the hell sits there hitting the refresh button on my profile in order to mod down every post I make as soon as I click on it? I can repost this all night, you only have five points maximum to spend. Hope your other hand's free so you can jerk off, too!
The shotgun in your pickup's rear window is got to go.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Just stop effing whining about it...
> Mostly because it's so cold the terrorists are few and far between. Who the fuck would bomb an office in -20C weather? :-)
Right, because there aren't any terrorists in the cold mountains along the Afganistan/Pakistan border.
No, it is mostly because Canada isn't seen as capable of resistance. I.e. when Europe (note I say when, not if) falls to Islamic fundamentalism the US will be the last line. If we fall even UBL knows Canada won't lift a finger to help us (they will in fact continue acting as a third column) and should we fall they will meekly (having no other option) accept their place in the resurrected caliphate.
The only hope the world had of beating back the hordes of darkness without another major World War was a successful conclusion in Iraq, a big enough success to set an example for the others. That is no longer possible, the example having already been set. Follow Iraq towards Freedom and you will see your country bombed and the terrorists cheered by all the 'right thinking people' in the elite media and academia, i.e you will face unspeakable evil and face it alone. Because you can forget help, the US is going to be in a post Vietnam style navel gazing exercise for a decade now. I'd just like to ask Ted Kennedy, was it worth launching a World War just to get a chance at putting a Democrat in the white house? If a camera were present he would of course bloviate, but in private I suspect he would say "Yes."
Much like WWII could have been avoided had the West been strong enough to deal with the growing threat when it was still on the horizon, we appear hellbent on allowing UBL and his gang of like minded idiots to sieze and unify the entire Middle East, restablish the caliphate, make their preparations for war and THEN suddenly wake up and shout "Oh my God, they intend to exterminate us, we have to defend ourselves!" Then we shall have War, with Iran and Pakistan (They won't stay on our side once the caliphate reappears) at a minimum with nukes. And it will be bloody.
But 'yall just be smug in your pacisfism while it lasts.
Democrat delenda est
Globe and Mail article on MRI's I've been trying to find statistics about MRI machines per captia without luck but on a radio show where I heard of this story, they mentioned that Japan has ~34 per million, Korea has ~7 and Canada has about 4 per million. Some 3rd world countries have more MRI machines per captia than we do.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
I'm a US resident and citizen, born and bred. I had to wait 3 months for a dermatologist appointment. I had to wait 4 months for an oncologist. I had to wait 6 months for an endocrinologist. I had to wait 2 months for a dentist appointment. My serpents got same-day service for their ills - ninety year old pythons need lots of medical attention.
Not much difference in capitalism or near-socialism as far as I can tell
BZZT! Wrong.
Do you know why your reptiles got instance service? Because you PAID for their service. Now, imagine how long it would take for them to have gotten attention if your pet's had to have government subsidized and controlled health care coverage from a government run animal clinic? You'd have more paper work. More delays. Less coverage. More frustration. Just like you have now with health care for humans.
It will raise the average IQ on both sides of the border!
Indeed. You hear about the MRI anecdotes often in heavily taxed areas, but in other places it's a complete nonissue. My mother got an MRI within 1 week here in Halifax. My youngest son was able to get a same-day CAT scan for a relatively innocuous issue involving his sinuses.
Therein lies the rub though, Canadian media does have myopia... they consider the big cities (particularly Toronto) as representative of all of Canada, and therefore any problem in the major urban centers is a problem everywhere. Yes, waiting lists are an issue, but not nearly as grand as some would like to make it appear in order to score political points.
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
vowed to leave the United States in response to government policies and mainstream cultural malaise
Given that the current Executive and Legislative branches at the Federal level are (nominally) conservative and mainstream cultural malaise is driven by Hollywood liberalism, who is offended by BOTH of these categories???
I left Arizona for Vancouver BC in Jan 2003. I've been telecommuting with the little web services outfit (still in AZ) ever since. I married a local last June, and she's sponsoring me for Perm Residency soon.
It was a great relief. My first coherent thought after 9/11 was "This is how tyrants are made". I seem to have been right.
I have absolutely no regrets. Answer your question?
If we fall even UBL knows Canada won't lift a finger to help us
Funny, given that Canada has been singled out by BL several times. Funny given that Canada was a critical ally in the war in Afghanistan, and that Canada's special forces eliminated much of BL's network. Funny, given that plans and threats against Canada have been found.
We won't have to declare bankruptcy. ;)
The only problem I can see being an issue is that I don't particularly :)
care for hockey... Is that a deal-breaker on naturalization?
Well that's pretty close to a deal breaker, but if you like any of curling, poutine, the Tragically Hip or beer we may be able to make an exception.
Any competent Canadian who is tired of the taxes or oppressive government control and policies, or who doesn't feel that s/he should have to learn French to get ahead, is welcome down here in the land of opportunity. Don't forget that the free flow of technical workers is protected by NAFTA.
dave (who spent 2 1/2 years in Vancouver and still has some RRSPs from the experience...)
Compare for yourself using indeed.com for Canada and the U.S..
These numbers only reflect the number of job postings (as opposed to actual jobs), but it's one indicator.
No second opinions? Where do you live, Iqaluit?
Sounds like you're someone who's never actually needed the system. I'm someone who has, as has most of my family at some point or the other, and we've done just fine. "Crumbling infrastructure"? Perhaps in some places, but it's certainly not systemic despite what some people would like you to believe. Apparently, you're one of those people dedicated to perpetration the myth of 'complete health care collapse'. How ironic.
As for conservatives being kept out of office, having backstabbers, crossburners, social regressives, and yank idolators heading up the party does more on that score than the liberals ever could.
"verybody under 40 years of age is suffering from financial rape from the older generation" i love your description, and it is going to be worst in the future, it one of the main reasons why i left Paris for Australia (Goldcoast)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Hah, the US government doesn't want its citizens to renounce their citizenship before moving abroad because then it would lose the ability to doubly tax their foreign earned income. See here for an example (FYI I hate this guys politics, so no flames for that, but his observations on the taxation issue is spot-on).
"probably because NAFTA has made Mexico an even bigger hellhole"
So all those illegal immigrants are just passing through on their way to Canada then?
Right now there is a 4+ year backlog on immigration - in short the system is broken and is desperately in need of funding to reduce the backlog. This affects me because I am Canadian who moved to the US in 2002 and I am married to a foreign national (Romanian).
Canada may have a pretty good immigration system relative to other countries, that still isn't saying much. One of the reasons we moved to the US was so that my wife (who is a medical doctor) could practise medicine. Despite physician shortages the medical system in Canada is very much closed to foreign medical grads (FMGs). Highly qualfied FMGs fight for the few remaining residency positions AFTER all the Canadian MDs have had their first crack (even the guy who graduated last in his class). In the US it is much more fair to foreigners, with merit playing a bigger role.
We have thought about moving back to Canada but the system makes it too much of a pain. For an MD it requires so many exams/money/time (although medicine is pretty much the same in English Canada and the US) that it is not worth it yet. Plus if we want to bring a mother-in-law from Romania to Canada we have to wait 4 years?! It's just stupid. BTW my wife is still not a Canadian citizen (because we are living in US) and if I were to sponsor her anyway with no assurance of success (huge amounts of paperwork and at least $1500 last I heard) she would still have to wait 18 months to get permenant residency! In short, the system really does need fixing.
BTW having experienced both medical systems (Alberta and BC versus Kaiser in GA and BlueCross/Shield in IL) I can tell you there is no one best system for everybody. However I can say that if you do NOT have at least an upper middle class income with a good employer you are better off in Canada (BC or Alberta). We paid a big sum of money for individual coverage in GA and even after calculating in the tax difference it was better to be in Alberta (by far) and just sligtly better to be in BC. Now however we are probably slightly better off in US moneywise.
We're still happy to move back though (for the lifestyle and cheaper high quality education) if things were made a bit easier for us.
I wonder why Canada even bothers attempting to be independent.
Why doesn't Canada just join United States? It would be most beneficial for both countries. Canadians would enjoy a large tax break while US would see twice our current landmass.
http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/
\
http://www.immigrationsask.gov.sk.ca/
Sask. has been saying they want more skilled immigrants, and will sponsor skilled individuals on their federal application for immigration. With our declining population of 1 Million, we can use all the skilled immigrants we can get, as the thousands a year we do get aren't turning the tide in our population loss.
Some industries where there is enormous potential in IT is the mining industry, including uranium mining, and the film industry is really taking off in Regina with the successes of "Corner Gas" on weekly TV and "Just Friends" in the theatres.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
"So, what about a local job market? Or are you going to continue taking advantage of the US's economy while hiding in canada?"
Why not? Most Vietnam draft dodgers hid out there.
Dude, this is Slashdot; not being PC will get you modded +5 funny. And so will the post pointing that out...
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
(Actually, in America, you might get turfed out in critical situations anyway. Many hospitals don't have an emergency room, as they cost more than they make and US hospitals are there for profit not care. Those ER rooms that do exist are hopelessly overcrowded, overworked and are considered by the CDC to be extremely high risk areas in the event of an outbreak of a contageous disease. If bird flu ever goes critical, it will likely do so in a US emergency room.)
The American situation, unlike the British and Canadian counterparts, is not fixable. Because hospitals in the US are profit ventures, not health-care centers, they have no interest in doing anything that will cost more than it will earn. Proper emergency care is expensive and earns little, as most accident and crime victims are uninsured and/or flat broke. They have no interest in lowering prices, because the bulk of "paying" customers have health insurance and so never see the real price tag and therefore have no reason to care what it is.
Insurance companies in the US are also money-grubbers and they know how to rake the money in. By charging the companies a "reduced rate" for bulk purchases, they can absolutely guarantee that customers never see the real cost to their paychecks. The victim - errr, employee - only sees a given deduction for their deduction. What they don't see is what the company is really paying and therefore what the company is really calculating payscales on. In the end, you pay the full cost but you only see a fraction of it on the pay stub.
By these accounting tricks and other fraud, the US employees are bilked billions of dollars and somehow consider themselves better off because they don't have the wait. Trust me, if you threw billions of dollars out the window in England, you'd get prompt healthcare too. Well, just as soon as anyone realized that was real money and not something from a Monopoly game.
(For that matter, there's always BUPA, if you insist on the insurance thing in more civilized lands.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
In all fairness, Canada has a more stable currency than the dollar, and unlike the US it has not scheduled itself an appointment to fall off a hyperinflationary debt cliff. The US has way to much debt, and way too much loose money. Canada can back up their currency with its vast natural resources, the US only has "the good faith of the federal government" - God help the USA.
.... the US economy getting ready to fall off a hyperinflationary debt cliff. I'm seriouus, really, it's true - look at all the debt, look at what the gov't has done to the money supply. They say the US economy is more efficient now, but really a more efficient economy has more extreme reactions to bad monitary policy, not less extreme ones.
Unfortnuately, Canada has it's own set of problems. First off, it's sales taxes reak economic havoc, and it's wildly popularized social programs don't work well. Large numbers of Canadian businessmen do business in the US and not in Canada - and they do it for a reason. There are massive and large numbers of Canadians that buy in the US and use the US health care system - and they do that for a reason too.
Also, the HUGE problem
Anyhow, my point is that for better or worse Canada's economy is linked to the US economy so when things go to hell here, they will almost certainly go to hell there too - even if Canada has less debt and more resources to back up it's currency, it's won't matter much when 85% of it's commerce self implodes.
nt
wait, you recognise the problem, but you still want to move to "almost as socialist as europe" Canada?
one big difference : there is no "american healthcare". possibly you have a health plan from the company you work for ; the quality varies significantly from provider to provider.
at a more progressive company, perhaps they are willing to shell out $300 a month or so to cover you or your family. Another employer might offer *only* a low end HMO, and pay $100 towards anything else.
IF you have that low end HMO, and need an MRI for a back injury, you might get a long term prescription for ibuprofen. Or something else. Not an MRI. If someone is paying $300 a month for your healthcare, your MRI might happen on the same day.
When I had Kaiser in California, my PSP was a moron who could barely speak english. He would say things like "People in my home country get this infection all the time--nothing to worry about". The solution was to go to urgent care. No apointment, but often the drs. on duty were recent UCLA grads, etc.
I usually had to go to urgent care 3 time to get good service once (someone who truly recognized the problem and knew what to do about it). It was much better than what I have now, the dr. flat out told me my current insurer is well known in the industry for fighting anything that is not medication.
It's absurd to compare "The American "Health Care System" to one anywhere else in the world. Huge numbers of people have no coverage at all, or very low quality service. Some get excellent service. Most people get mediocre service, driven by what the insurer is willing to pay.
Tim Hortons, skating, or Alexander Keith's will do too.
my sstream of consciousness
I'd also caution against pride - Denmark has won the "best place to live" award from the UN for the past five or six years.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
It's the elitists like you who are always telling others how prejudiced they are, but you sound far more bigoted than the typical racists (white or black) that I've dealt with anywhere. There are good people everywhere and morons everywhere. You're clearly among the latter group -- no matter where you might live.
Why is the government having to pay people to stay?
Mod parent UP!!!
What if the other countries won't allow it?
I mean if you're China, all happy sending off your ships full of crap you sold to WalMart, and Canada comes and knocks on your door saying "Eh, you mind if I set up my hoose here in the South China Sea?" what are you going to say?
Man, what is this utopia you speak of? :)
Seriously, I love Canada with all my heart but it sickens me that we've started feeling the need to flaunt. Canada and America deserve to be neighbours; we're both self-righteous. If we don't watch it we'll start losing friends too.
I live in Manitoba because I like fresh air and snow but it's certainly not for everyone. I'm not about to hold a gun to anyone's head and tell them they can't leave.
On topic, it's a good idea to hang on to some talent. High time for smaller countries to believe in themselves and become a little more self-reliant.
Well I lived in Vancouver for seven years, and I'm no great hockey fan either. I only had seasons tickets for the Canucks for three of those four years, so yeah - well below the average level of fanaticism there. :-)
You should be ok. Just stay off the streets after playoffs home games.
Australia seems to move around OK - http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/australia.sht ml
As a Canadian who has worked for years both in Canada and the United States, and having taken the plunge 18 months ago to come back to Canada to work, I can say that it has been an unpleasant experience.
/.ers think that Canada is some magical place of freedom. It's not. Freedom of speech is curtailed as we have laws against "hate speech" that the US would consider violations of the First Amendment. Freedom of the press is a joke, since several times reporters were spied on, wiretapped or just simply had their personal files confiscated without a warrant by corrupt police who feel that due process is an inconvenience. Our Senate isn't elected nor provides regional representation, but is an expensive rubber stamp with no real power. Heck, we didn't even have our full independence from the United Kingdom until April 19, 1982! We have sexist and racist government departments that purposely exclude white males from positions supposedly in the name of diversity. There are 36,000 deportation orders on illegal immigrants that can't be executed because the government doesn't know where they are. They let the families of Somali warlords and Sikh terrorists stay in this country. And, in general, the majority of people here have been lulled into utter stupidity by the clever social engineering of Pierre Trudeau's liberal party over the last 35 years that has their party about to be voted back into power that has stolen billions of dollars from taxpayers (Adscam, HRDC et al). Not to mention that Canada is the only major industrialized nation in the world to
Healthcare up here is abysmal. Trying to find a family doctor is nearly impossible, and there are long wait times for elective procedures and medical imaging. One of our family friends died of a heart attack after waiting nearly a year for bypass surgery. I'm paying more for health care up here than I ever did in the US due to my premiums.
Education is a joke up here too. Ontario, for example, passes ALL children unless they basically hand in nothing or choose to do nothing throughout the year. My neighbor's son got straight "R" grades ("F" is no longer politically correct), yet somehow passed to Grade 5 last year. That'll keep happening until he graduates high school, even though this kid still can't read a basic "See Jane Run" type book.
Daily life is ok, but there are some things you have to be aware of. Although the overall murder rate is lower in Canada, per-capita rates of rape and property crime are all higher than in the United States. I feel less safe here than I did in the San Francisco Bay area and much less safe than in the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania. Try rolling through Toronto and see what it's like these days. Forget about the unbelievably bitter cold, excessive snow if you live in Eastern Canada, and generally longer winters. Weather counts for a lot.
Then there's the financial aspect of it. Sure, people don't get bankrupted here, but if you're not chronically or seriously ill you are better off in the US. I've paid more for health care here since my employer doesn't cover my premiums (yes, we pay premiums, $60/month/person). Auto insurance is 50% more expensive than what I paid for in California, plus I can't remove tickets from my record with traffic school. House prices are insane; I can't buy a fully-detached house with two car garage for under $400k, and I can't deduct my mortgage interest or property taxes from my federal taxes. I get paid less in equivalent dollars than any job in the US, and all of my Canadian friends who have worked both places want to go back south unless they have significant family obligations north of the 49th. I pay more in taxes, especially at the till (15% sales tax on a car is insane!). The government's overly-liberal immigration policies make unemployment consistently 2% higher at a minimum than in the United States so I'm always looking over my shoulder thinking when my time might be next.
Finally, there's the government. Lots of
Sorry, exactly whom do you speak for? Are you sure?
Gay Muslim Association of Canada
Are you gay? Are you a muslim? If you answered "yes" to both of these questions, then GMAC might be exactly what you're looking for!
(ahahaha, I hope GM doesn't decide to sue slashdot)
Remember, Canadian slashdotters; when they come knocking, make sure to give them an EARFUL about how we don't want federal jail time for copying songs. Or *IAA gestapos getting private information without warrant or cause. This is one of the few times of year where they might actually listen to you.
..don't panic
News at 11.
Your claims are impossible to back up, and you sound like a travel brochure...a desperate travel brocure
The fact is, Canadians that I've known bitch more about their government (with good reason, they vote for parties, not candidates in the national election) than Americans, and that is saying alot.
BC bud is the best??? yeah b/c the Candian government grows it and sells it illegally...what if the US government did that? yeah we'd have the best bud...besides we can get anything here that you have...most of it goes here anyway
Health care, blah blah...it's not like your system is perfect. Besides, Americans are too smart for free health care, we'd learn how to work the system. That's the thing...Americans are too smart to let some bastard in an office in some far away city to make their decisions for them.
As for your fascist point...you're wrong. Fundamentalist Mormons that are driven out of local communities in America for practicing poligamy move to where??? Canada...because it is tolerant of bigamy and child slavery i guess...where's your liberal high horse now???
>"However the money collected in taxes mostly gets back to the Canadian people in some form, whereas in the US taxes paid go mostly to giant corporations with fat government contracts"<
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Canada is the modern nation it is today because of America. Yes our corporate structure is faulty, I hate it too, but you can't make valid points about it because your country would be trapping furs if it wasn't for American corporations. If they're so evil, why doesn't the soooo democratic and enlightend Canadian government pass laws that are strictly anti-corporate (ALL corporations, not just the ones from the U.S.)...another thing, most of the really 'evil' corporations are globally owned and operated, so it's not just the U.S...it's rich people in every country
Yeah, Canada...why try to be something that you're not??? just take the U.S. dollar and you can apply for statehood...we'll even let quebec speak french...
Thank you Dave Raggett
That's what it all boils down to, I'm afraid. The folks who want 'their' people in power will moan and complain about how things are so bad, not neccessarily because they are so bad.
It's been a long time.
Walmart is the largest employer.
I hope Tim Hortons is different in Canada than it is here in the States.
Every time I've been to one here, I swear I'm eating yesterday's donuts.
Homer Voice: "Mmmm. Stale donuts."
Six hours!?!? That must've been a freudian slip there. I assume you meant six months.
Either that, or you've actually never seen a specialist.
I'm sorry but your comment shows the typical Canadian arrogance: "The system is the best it can be, and nothing can be done to improve it. We shouldn't even try.". Doesn't that sound stupid when you hear somebody else say it?
Without artists you can't have culture, or designers for all the stuff you want but don't really need.
Face it, without artists then theres no one to handle the marketing of products, theres no one to make the movies, the music, the novels, the games and anything else which isnt essential but happens to be fun.
If we want fun in our society, we need artists, its just a matter of making the art industry competitive (open source?, p2p? creative commons?) Who knows, but I'm guessing art does matter to most people, how much? Perhaps not as much as law, or business, but on other levels of course.
http://www.notcanada.com/
You don't count as a country if you've never been to space.
People who land here and look for job are in for big disappointment. Not that there are no opportunities. You need 'canadian experience' - for everything. They would rather keep the patients wait list long, than re-skill Russian and Indian immigrant doctors.
Linus Torvalds originally thought of immigrating to Canada but couldn't get a job of sys-admin as he did not have the 'canadian-experience'. He then moved to Transmeta and the rest, as they say, is history.
------
A stupid signature is better than none
Tragically Hip? Yuck. Come on, you guys had Skinny Puppy! Flaunt it!
The Canadian Supreme Court ruled that people in Quebec could get private insurance because people were dying on the waiting list.
I would assume that being able to zip down to the United States is a nice escape valve for the Canadian system.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
If there is a country that is intelligent enough to understand that the well being of ALL it's citizens is the key to it's survival then I would say that sounds like a pretty good place to be.
The US allows ANYONE to become a success if they are clever, creative or willing to work hard. There are countless of examples of immigrants arriving at our shores without a dime to their name and yet manage to build successful lives for themselves. Just because you have a mediocre mind and can't hack it in this country doesn't mean the rest of us should have to cover for your sorry worthless ass.
Marketing! Marketing! Marketing!
Nice to see someone with a similar blend of interests/skills on Slashdot. I'd say come here to New York or even New England if you want a sane environment; there are a number of pharmaceutical research labs in the region. Personally, I'm heading to Germany or Switzerland after I finish up my education.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
No, not mine - the story. Well, okay, maybe this post is flamebait too, but do allow me to go on: The discussion has jumped straight into "Canada better than US" or "US better than Canada," and there's 400 replies at the time of this rambling, which is a metric fuckton for a Saturday evening (you Yanks may not know it, but the fuckton is an official metric measure of bullshit that the rest of the world is using). That makes it a flamebait; there's not an objective way to quantify what we're talking about, even if anyone was so inclined, which they aren't. We instead have discussions about the virtue of one and the other, ranging from the philosophical to the political all the way to the asinine. The submitter of the original story cleverly disguised the whole thing beneath a thin veil of relevance, which makes him or her a troll. And the slashdot editors are, well, slashdot editors, and it's the weekend anyway.
I mean, we're not even arguing apples and apples here - we have two mighty white nations on the same continenet, born of the same decrepid empire, abusing their various minorities just as nicely though perhaps in slightly different ways and sharing a very similar set of values overall. If Canada had any place so warm that you could call it "the Deep South," we'd have crazy right-wing evangelical Christian nuts, too, but a good deal of them freeze every winter and what we're left with we call Alberta. And interior BC's no pro-choice-women's-rights picnic, either. Everything else is just details and misguided jingoism on both sides.
Now I'm sure everyone has their own personal experiences on both sides of the border, and will quote them judiciously as absolute evidence of one place being better than another, but that's all horseshit. New York is a lot more like Toronto than it is like Los Angeles, and New Yorkers and Torontonians are a similar breed of asshole who have a lot more in common than, say, New Yorkers and Texans, who pack heat for fun and not for protection and who like to execture retards - we don't in Canada, but there was a time when we chopped off their nuts.
So, in conclusion, we all fell off the same goddamn tree so let's not argue about who's got a bigger worm eating them, aight?
Even as you read this, your pants are strangling your loins! Aaa!
I had medicial issues a few years back, had to get multiple surgerys, an assload of other treatments. For the first surgery, I waited about 4 days after it was confirmed nessicary. The Canadian Health care system isn't as bad as the media says.
Try reading this, or even better the Actual Study if you want to have the opinions the mass media prefer to feed you shattered. In fact for a great education just click on the study link and read all of the articles that referred to it, all linked on that same page.
I don't know about you, but counting gambling issues or death in the family as a "medical problem" does not seem to be playing straight. That was a study that already had an obective in mind before the writing began.
I know you will be reluctant to believe the real truth, but at least I can help countless others pull the wool away.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
After over three quarters of my state voted with the fucking Klan to write discrimination into our motherfucking state constitution, I'm quite ready to leave this state.
Well with eloquent writing like that it's a wonder they aren't doing more to keep you!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I for one, can say that in the Okanagan region of BC, that summer is around 30 - 40 degrees Celsius, with winter temperatures seldom reaching below -10. Hardly terrible weather.
Last I read, they had about 10 soldiers in their army.
Canadians live in a reality distortion bubble, though. It will keep them safe. Ever read 'The Peace War', I think it was called, by Vernor Vinge?
No, six hours. I had a bike accident with non-life-threatening injuries and had an MRI within an hour of getting through the emergency room line-up. And when I was diagnosed with a UTI I was sent to a specialist who saw me within minutes of getting out of the cab. And a roommate who was diagnosed with lymphoma had a battery of tests including two MRIs within three hours of his diagnosis and surgery the same day. Again, wait times are overstated; again, it's the squeaky wheel who gets the press. Getting the great service available to all Canadians regardless of income is not newsworthy. It's only in the rare occasions that it breaks down that we hear about it.
Only typical fuckhead Americans consider Canadian arrogance typical. If we're arrogant, it's because our system works better than yours. Enjoy what you have. I sure wouldn't.
The truth never sounds stupid. But you sure do.
www.kitchengeek.com -- Nosh for
look at statistics for toronto this summer (Even for the fall)
almost every day there was a smog advisory
"I've heard horror stories of US Wal-Mart workers making maybe $5/hour - come up here and get a pay raise!"
Wal-Mart workers are not skilled. Canada does not want them.
" It takes time to see specialists here in America too."
No it doesn't. Last year, I needed access to a Urologist. The wait time was 24 hours.
I needed a CAT scan. Wait time was approximately 30 minutes. I had to schedule a procedure with the Urologist. Wait time... 3 days... for the top guy in the D.C. area.
You see, if you work for a living, you have access to great healthcare.
Which is the way it should be.
Why should I wait behind a homeless guy for good coverage?
I could never survive in Canada. I've spent my whole life in Georgia and Tennessee where it virtually never stays below freezing for more than a couple of days at a time.
I have never had to wait more than 48 hours to see a specialist in the Washington DC area. As far as MRIs go, which is a serious problem in Canada, I can get in for a non-emergency MRI within 5 hours. YMMV.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Whenever someone cannot do anything but seek to call me names, without the bother of a counter-argument - then I know I've won. As I said, I posted to to convince you but to cancel out what misguided confusion you may have spawned.
So I take it the actual study was to difficult for to read? I find it disturbing that no-one now will actually have a debate on anything and instead just choose to call them an ass. Sure the blogger is very right wind (probably one of the most) but read the study itself, and the MANY links from it that point to issues with the study. Why would you trust any study without further thought?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Mod parent up!
..when do I get my entitlement?
Let me say that I enjoy the Canadian way of life myself, but let's look at some numbers:
e sc.php [worldfactsandfigures.com]
h tml [readersdigest.ca]
/ lfs-en.htm [statcan.ca]
8 a.htm [statcan.ca] & http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm [disastercenter.com]
Source: http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/gdp_country_d
GDP per capita Canada: $29,700
GDP per capita USA: $37,800
Source: http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/1999/06/think_01.
National average total taxation Canada: 48.2 %
National average total taxation USA: 41.4 %
Source: http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Labour/LFS
National unemployment rate Canada: 6.6%
National unemployment rate USA: 4.9%
Source: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728/d04072
Total Violent crime per 100,000 people Canada: 963
Total violent crime per 100,000 people in USA: 466
By all of these measures you are better off in the USA.
[This may be a duplicate of a previous Anonymous Coward posting that I did not intend.]
BTW, most of the arguments are complete rubbish. Canada is not the equivalent to the states. Sure, they have some things that may seem better, such as health care (when you're healthy), but there are a *lot* of problems with it. Since being in Canada, I'm sickened by the stories of those needing care and having to wait 3-6 months for it, putting their lives in even more risk. The only people who really benefit are the drug addicts, who have safe houses for injection - and even purchases. Imagine our tax dollars going to that.
Additionally, the sales tax - what we save in health care, we more than make up for in tax and duty. With exceptions such as the Xbox360 and Sony PSP, most electronics (digital cameras, cell phones) reach Canada 6 months to 2 years behind the US, and cost 10% more (and still require the additional 15% sales tax). It's certainly not limited to small purchases either. Imagine if someone asked for 7% more on your home. Gas is more expensive as well.
Lastly, the median income even in places such as Vancouver is quite low compared to equivalent US cities. That's why the doctors, and skilled workers leave in the first place. Real-estate is not necessarily any cheaper either - Downtown Vancouver apartments run $450-500/sq ft. Ok, not as much as SF or NYC, but if you're making the median income of $40k/year, it's nothing to sneeze at.
The real issue here is that Canada is facing a problem with all the skilled immigrants that were promised Good Paying jobs that never appeared.
Like me, hundreds of thousands of professionals, with highly superior training and years of working experience arrived in Canada only to find that there were no jobs available for us, other than driving cabs, serving macfood or cleaning toilets. Also, the lack and impossibility of getting the famous "Canadian Experience" totally nullifies the chances of getting a decent job.
Last week, a reporter managed to put on the tv a special featuring this problem. I guess that the scandal that this provoked, might be in part behind this so-on-time "effort" to keep skilled workers here.Why? Because most of us are really pissed off with Canada and with the lies they told us to make us come here and pay taxes so that they could pay the retirement for their baby boomers!
Guess this is a joke or just a rant? Just ask any canadian newcomer...
I'd just like to say, everyone who likes Canada - your invited!
Everyone who is responding to this with comments about how we're fostering fundamentalists of all religions who are fleeing to us, that we're all homosexuals, that your weed is better than ours (heresy!), that we still live in igloos (I've never even seen an igloo outside museum displays) - on behalf of Canada I'd like to formally revoke your invitation. We are a free and democratic society, like the US once was, the fact that so many Americans are talking about leaving the US for Canada says something about the US you should be considering - not Canada (my neighbour, just for example, was American - and is now a proud Canadian). If your countrymen are leaving because they've lost hope in your nation, the fact they tend to come here is irrelevant to the issue. What you need to focus on, you who still cling to hope and faith in your electorate, is the problems that are driving people away from the US because honestly, I gain nothing from having more traffic on my roads and pollution in my cities. I'll gladly, with open arms, welcome any freedom loving, liberal American into Canada, my neighbourhood and my home.
I also hear (my sister spent a short amount of time married to a canadian) that the wait time for medical care in Canada can be quite long, depending, of course, on where in canada you are and what you are waiting for. Here, south of the border, you can get it a little faster... the tradeoff is that you put your family in debt for the next 3 generations doing so. =P
To all of you posting how bad it is in Canada... Keep up the good work. With any luck it will scare of all the Yanks from coming up here and ruining the place. I for one do not welcome our new American overlords. Bonjour, y'all.
Ok, I moved from New Jersey to California more for the culture than the weather, but I've gotten used to it. I see frost every couple of years in Silicon Valley. If I *want* snow, I can drive or fly to it, and the main problem with driving to it is that Californians don't know how to drive in snow...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I enjoy how you think you can validly explain the Canadian healthcare system having clearly never been influenced by it. You've created these wonderful parables for me consider, like for example - all members of American ER teams become involved in intricate romantic triangles during the course of each and every shift (a la the show ER), that every American taxi driver single handedly prevents multiple terrorist attacks (like the Die Hard series) or that Rap stars moonlight as intergalactic secret agents (Men In Black). When you stop judging my society based on hearsay and your conjectures, I'll stop assuming every American movie/tv show is a valid representation of your society - it's really the same leap we're making here. Now if you'll excuse me I need to get in line to fill out a form to account for my use of the communal computer terminal before jumping on my dog sled and picking up some of the watered down moonshine we call beer and returning to my igloo to make love to my inuit wife followed by eating donuts and watching episodes of "The Beachcombers".
we don't need no stinking qualified competent engineer or excellent programmer..!!! shhhhuuuu good engineers..
Vancouver's great, and it's on my list of cities I'd move to if I really wanted to get out of San Francisco Bay Area or out of the US. Weather's like Seattle, culture's interesting, coffee's good, and you can get out of town easily. And as far as "would I move to a different country with similar culture", I moved from New Jersey to San Francisco; moving to Vancouver wouldn't be as big a change. Moving to Toronto would be, because it'd be moving back to a culture with winter.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
You guys down there have made a big mess. Please don't come up here.
Every single link you posted was dead.
Either you are a liar or a troll.
The program is for "skilled workers"
Speaking as a Yank, there are just a few things that would stop me from moving up north:
(1) Celine Deon. Wouldn't want to live in the same country as she was from.
(2) God-forsaken winter weather. Not fit for human life. 'Nuff said.
(3) CFL. "How many stars are there on the Canadian flag?" "None". "How many stars are there in the CFL?" "None".
(4) Generally lower wages for the same job.
'Cept for that, I wouldn't mind it up there. On the plus side, you've got a lot fewer people - I count that as a good thing. And you've got good hockey. And you've got lots of land with fuck-all in it, which is also a good thing in my view. And you've got some damned scenic stuff, like Banff.
One problem that Canada has is that any new skilled immigrant who wants to becomes a doctor or engineer is forced to do a three certfication. This means that a worker loses out three years of salery, when instead (s)he could be heading south of the border. South of the border that would not be necessary and they would also be better paid.
So immigrate to the US or to Canada. Hmmm?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
What they aren't doing with the money is spending it on new jobs...
I watched my old man slave 30 years as a union pipefitter. It was a constant struggle to maintain what he had achieved and the reagan administration saw to it those uppity poles with their "solidarity" communism didn't make it to these shores. Now you can work thirty years for a company only to be fired three months before your retirement divests... or better still the company that owns that pension will just sell out to a new company who will promptly refuse to back your thirty years of effort.
Money means nothing if you don't spend it. The "new money" may not be going into factories, but I personally couldn't give a shit less - what's the point? There's always new opportunities to make money and everything is cyclical.
Your treading the footsteps I took 20 years ago. I left Toronto because I just didn't feel like I belonged. I ended up lving in Tokyo for 10 years.
I did end up starting a company, getting married and having kids whilst there and in the end it was the kids that brought us back to Canada. Education is of primary importance to us and we just could not get it there, not even at the International schools.
We could have gone just about anywhere (I have British citizenship by birth) but ended up in Vancouver for many of the reasons that have been stated in this thread. Good schools, good weather (if you don't mind some rain), mountains, sea, minimal violent crime, close enough to Japan that we can go back now and then.
I'm much more of a soccer fan than hockey (being British may have something to do with that) so not being a hockey fan won't be an issue. You may even learnto like the Canadian Footbal league.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
The US really isn't that insecure. It's a remarkably safe country. Nevertheless, Americans seem to live in constant terror of everything, whether it's the British, communists, terrorists, blacks, liberals, neocons, or whatever. An entire nation of panicky cowards with guns.
The "-1 troll" might be for the "yuppie douche-bags" comment.
//I was tr0lled.
Hmm...no, on second thought, it's because people don't agree with your invincible arguments.
If you actually look at ALL Americans, our wait times suddenly look pretty reasonable.
Not a problem. It's our dirty little secret, but not everybody in Canada loves hockey or Tim Horton's. I was born and raised here, but never learned to like Tim's. And I'm the only hockey fan in my family.
How much skew comes from the horrendous unemployment situation in the Maritimes? that is, how would Canada west of Quebec compare to the US?
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Before the federal government and courts began deciding that the entire nation had to march in lockstep, you could get this kind of intellectual diversity right here in the US. If you didn't like the way things were in your state, you moved to another. Much easier than moving out of the country, and the states that operated the best got the most benefit - attracting business and people.
I was a lot more liberal about immigration before I moved to SoCal. Over the past two decades, thanks to problems like what you cite, I've become a proponent of gun turrets at the border :( If CA wasn't supporting millions of illegals, CA could afford to support its *citizens*.
A good deal of the problem could be halted by doing away with automatic citizenship for the spawn of illegal aliens (it made sense when America was labour-poor, but those days are long gone). In other countries, a baby is a citizen of wherever its *parents* are citizens. Why should they expect different of American?
But oh, no, it's far too politically incorrect for *Americans* to resent being overrun by invaders from another country.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
So, where did Canada move to? Hopefully somewhere warmer.
Canadian engineers were crucial to the early U.S. human space program. NASA hired over 30 engineers from the Avro Arrow program (mach 2 fighter) which was cancelled by the Canadian Government in 1959. These engineers were involved in Mercury, Gemini and Apollo (putting Americans into space). To be honest some of them were British, but working in Canada prior to going to the US.
What this whole issue really is about is illustrated by that anecdote about the Canadian's building the US space program, the Brain Drain. Skilled workers can be lured away by high paying jobs in the US and other countries, that's a loss to Canadian companies certainly, but it also impacts the country as a whole when these skilled workers advance their field in another country - ie: sending Americans to space with Canadian know how. Our Universities train a lot of bright people, many of them from other countries. This proposal is designed to encourage them to stay in Canada after their education is complete, and to bring in other professionals from other countries. Reversing the Brain Drain effect and encouraging the growth of many different industries in Canada.
The rock, the vulture, and the chain
I still can't figure out what's so great about Canada. Unless you're really into: -Freezing your Ass Off -Hockey -Only have 1 1/2 months of summer -Freezing your Ass Off -No Jobs -Shitty Health Care (You people in in denial) -Pompous, Stinky French Wannabes (Napolean is dead, You're not related to him, and being french doesn't make you suave)... oh, and the language doesn't sound cool, it sounds like a whiney bitch on prozak -Freezing your Ass off -Roots clothing - I'm sorry, people who wear those clothes are retarded -Bashing America - Bunch of Ungrateful Haters
Immigration is mainly by people in the lower class, where they stand to benefit by moving to the USA.
Illegal immigration is mainly by people in the lower class. Legal immigration strongly favors those with knowledge or skills that are considered beneficial (ie, profitable) to the US. (Even the much-derided H-1B visa holders pay taxes, for example.)
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
Maybe in your district. This month in Toronto I found one in about 20 minutes using the Physicians directory. (Despite the dribble of objections from the middle class who have captured the notion that privatisation solves everything, some level of public health service is necessary in a socially just state. That's one big point in Canada's favour...)
(What does "excessive snow" actually mean? How is snow "excessive"? It's snow, for goodness' sake. If you have such a problem with it, sure, you probably want to live somewhere else, at least for those couple of months (Dec/Jan/Feb in Toronto). Frankly, I find the Toronto Summer much harder to cope with than the Winter...)
I can't buy a fully-detached house with two car garage for under $400k,
Have you priced that in any other first world country lately? Then try pricing one in Europe. Canada's real estate prices are quite reasonable compared to comparable New World cities of my acquaintance.
As for education, I cannot comment on the elementary levels, since I'm personally done with that phase. I'm sorry if it's not working out with your kids. However, should I choose tertiary, I know that the cities I'm familiar with - Toronto, Montreal - boast many world class institutions. So presumably you weren't talking about university level "education".
On the subject of city life: The infrastructure Just Works(TM); there is clean and efficient public transport (Montreal's Metro can hold its own with any city's); the streets of Toronto are (still) much safer than US cities; Canadians are incredibly, touchingly polite and civil; they read books; they are informed and interested in things outside their own borders; etc.
several times reporters were spied on, wiretapped or just simply had their personal files confiscated without a warrant by corrupt police who feel that due process is an inconvenience.
I can't think of a "democracy" where that hasn't happened from time to time. Ditto for the corruption/kickback/etc things that I'm sorry to say are not uniquely Canadian. Put that one down to human nature: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance," n'est-ce pas? We can still hope that something less than armed revolution is necessary to keep a Canadian government (relatively) honest...
There are 36,000 deportation orders on illegal immigrants that can't be executed because the government doesn't know where they are.
I don't think this situation is unique to Canada by any means. It is effectively impossible to locate every alien who doesn't want to be found and deported, especially given Canada's geography. Sure, with a few hundred million thrown at the problem, you could find maybe 70% of them (volunteering your tax dollars?) That last few percent just won't ever be found... could just be they really want to live here! (Duh.)
If you think you're going to...satisfy your ideological cravings by coming up to Canada, you are gravely mistaken
Au contraire. I moved here largely for ideological reasons. Canada did not support the Iraq occupation nor the Vietnam adventure, unlike my previous country of residence. I believe in voting with one's passport and Canada's values as a nation do not make me sick to my heart. The arrogance is at least partly justified; and a healthy and judicious distaste for today's America puts Canadians who feel that way in very good company worldwide.
Canada is able to lay claim to more than its fair share of progressive thinkers. Heck, I hear it's one of only 4 countries in the world that countenances gay marriage, and won't give you a life sentence for a couple of grams of dope. Which reminds me. We're METRIC! If that's not enough to make you want to live here, then nothing will...
you had me at #!
As a Canadian I find this posting a little ironic. Many Canadians themsevles leave the country in what the government refers to as a 'brain drain'. Most go to the US but others, like myself, go to Europe. Canada just can't compete on the pay scale that other counties offer plus you get a cultural experience that you wouldn't get at home.
Japan's government is by far the least likable of any first world nation, and quite a bit behind even many 3rd world nations. Sure you can be ignorant about the government and just enjoy life - but that's true in the US just as much as Japan, right?
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
In America, if you really hate your neighbors you can move to your own city! In these cases Dearborn, Michigan* and San Francisco respectively. It's a good thing those two cities are so far apart because last I checked the local Imams weren't infavor of protecting sexual orientation under anti-discrimintation laws and Richard Simmons wasn't getting on his knees and facing west five times a day. *http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q =Dearborn%2C+Michigan+Muslims+largest
If it wasn't for my family and friends, I'd move to Canada in a heartbeat. I hate the corrupt U.S. politicians and what they're doing to our country. My father being buried in Arlington also gives me pause. He fought for this country and believed in it. I'd hate to let evil people like Bush and Cheney run me out of a great country. I also prefer the snow and cooler climate. I know most people hate those things but I love the snow.
I moved from Arizona to Hamburg, Germany just over a year ago. The best move I've ever made. I make a little more money than the US national average for a Unix Admin but the cost of living here is much lower than Phoenix or my other recent home San Diego, CA.
The health care system here is also socialized but with an option for private health care (either exclusive or in addition to) your basic health care.
Naturally there is the language problem. You can live here if you don't speak German but it would be very very difficult. For me, that's not a problem though.
The immigration laws are extremely strict for most nationalities but not nearly as bad for Americans. They do kindof use a Catch22 system though. You can't get residence permission without employment and a registered address here. You can't rent an apartment or get a job without residence permission though. There are loopholes but it's tough.
Of course, if anyone in your family tree, has or had, even the slightest percentage of German blood you can get citizenship pretty easily.
If you're married to a German, you don't have to change your citizenship to live here. Of course you can if you want to but it's not required which is my case.
Crime is extremely low everywhere and the weather is similar to the Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York region.
The IT market is somewhat thin, similar to the US, but there are plenty of jobs out there.
Isn't it interesting how statistics can be presented to prove anyone's point? Canada has about 1/10th the population of the U.S. Factoring that into the equation, the U.S. has about six times the number of unemployed people and about five times as many violent crimes.
I had three relevant factors in deciding on Japan...
1. I viewed the White House as being corrupt and immoral before
re-election. That is, I thought anyone who bothered to read up
on what we were doing would find more than enough to know those
in power were criminals. This is before the issues with 'scooter'
Libby, before Tom Delay's problems, and before Cheney lobbied for
loopholes in the ant-Torture bill.
In my opinion, disagreement with politicians isn't enough to
leave one's own country... as you'll always have people in office
that you personally dislike. However, when the American people
chose to re-elect those I felt who were criminal (beyond misleading
the American public into war), that transferred the corruption
in the White House onto the people themselves IMHO.
2. I've disliked the rise of religion in US politics as of late. I think
faith-based decisions have been the foundation of many of this
administrations blunders. Further, I think it's being used politically
as a tool to manipulate voters. I also disagree with the positions
religious politicians take on abortion, cloning, stem cell research,
gay rights, and just about everything else.
Japan's society (for all it's strengths and weaknesses) places an emphasis
on group and community over the individual, unlike the US. Japan also
practices three religions, but for the most part in ceremony only. With the
exception of Yasukuni visitations, religion does not factor into politics
here... nor is it public in the way that it is in the United States. (I'd
also personally argue the Yasukuni visitation issues are more about saving
face in the presence of an acending China than religion. Also, some claim
Koizumi deliberatly makes these visits in an effort to diffuse the strength
of the 'WW2 card' China and Korea have a habit of playing.)
I have my theroies as to why religion is on the rise in America. I think
much of it has to do with the move to the suburbs, and the general drive of
Americans to insulate themselves from their neighbors. We end up in
situations where church provides our only real source of community outside
the office. I wanted to come to Japan to see why this wasn't present in
Japan, and perhaps further refine my personal phylosophy on it.
3. I studied Japanese and German in High School/College... and I wanted to
work on one language or the other while living abroad. Japan had the
larger economy and it was also the path of least resistance.
And just what does that have to do with it? We've got nasty unemployment in Louisiana right now along with certain other areas of the U.S.
Oh, I get it.. the typical "we lost this round to the yanks so let's change the rules" game. Fucking pathetic. Go bitch in your beer about how we killed the Avro Arrow since those big bad ole US generals wouldn't purchase a foreign made figther.
Mod this post down. If you actually click the links, all of them except for one are made up, and leads to 404's. sure, the urls look good, but that doesn't make them real. So he must have just made up these figures and added some good looking url's so people would think that they are true.
Psst CANADIANS, over here in the corner..... Now we've said too much already... I don't know who started this but someone's in trouble. We'll figure this out later.. For now just go back there, agree with everything they say about their country being better and maybe they'll forget this came up.... I know, someone shout "look there goes a Taliban"
You're boring.
...there'd just be no-one to pump your gas.
I do wonder what you mean by supporting millions of illegals. Do you really think they cross the border then think, Hmm.. now I'm in the land of plenty, I think I'll get tuberculosis, just to make the best of it.
Would you ever consider that the reason your public services are crap is because you are scared of taxes, not to mention you voted in the f***ing terminator for governor. If you paid your teachers the schools would be happier, if you paid they police they wouldn't be corrupt, if you paid the doctors and nurses you'd have more of them.
My skilled worker application has been in 18 months and I'm still waiting. I have plenty of points (a PhD in computing, cash to invest, a wife with a degree, ten years running a company, fluent in English, still in my 30s). My cousin, similarly qualified, has just put his application in, and he's been told not to even think about calling for THREE YEARS.
What a mess. Makes the US look like a well-adminstered nation.
K.
I've never been in such a whacky country. 40C in Summer. -40 in Winter. That's amazing.
Anyone in Toronto this summer wouldn't have said "frozen" as the response to "Canada" in the word-association game. My worry on immigrating is not cold, but how I can get aircon working when the Ontario Hydro is in such a mess (hint to Ontarians: PUT THE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY UP).
K.
No one has yet proved intelligent enough to marry American hope and European security. Thus practical choice is inevitable, and the liberal policies you mention are a sign that, for better or for worse, hope has gained the upper hand.
Capitalist enough to hate, apparently.
Sorry -- it's right there on the citizenship test -- Who scored the winning goal in the 1972 Canada cup series between Canada and the Soviet Union?
If you can't answer correctly, they will deport you the same day.
Ian Ameline
.. cause it sums up my feelings exactly.
Here are the links again right from my browser history: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/07/28 /crime_stats040728.html
http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Labour/LFS/ lfs-en.htm
http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/data.exe/feddal/r u
http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/gdp_country_de sc.php
http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/1999/06/think_01.h tml
People still speak English and if you can scrape up US$1,500 a month, you're almost rich. $4,000 a month will rent you a house in a top subdivision with all the maids, security guards and dancing girls you would ever want.
Of course you have to get that money from a business or pension based elsewhere. Income opportunities there are almost non-existant, with a typical skilled worker wage in the $5 a day range. Business opportunities are there for the creative, but most people who come in with the idea of earning money there fail quickly due to a combination of intense competition and not understanding the culture.
See:
http://www.livingincebu.com/ (their discussion forums are particularly good)
http://www.livinginthephilippines.com/
for more detailed information.
D
Wasn't it the 52nd state ?
The 51st being the UK.
I am probably doing this. Though it's to the Netherlands. The main reason isn't that I am upset with our government, or anything like that. However, the more I think about it, I am pretty pissed off about all that. So it just becomes another reason.
I've been to Canada too (it's about 1/2 mile from me). Very nice people, and it's a pretty country. I could see living there.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
...there'd just be no-one to pump your gas.
So who was pumping all the gas before there were 10 million illegals in the country? Industrial robots?
Maybe if you stopped to think a second you would realize that the reason such menial jobs pay so little is because of the labor market distortions introduced by unchecked immigration. If that distortion were corrected, wages would rise until those jobs were filled by legal workers. It's as simple as that.
Except at the Department of Public Works.
Phillip
America != USA
America = South america + North america
So fellow cubans ARE americans (they are not USAans though)
Thank you for listening.
Spoken like someone who believes in "entitlement"...
No, the #1 reason public schools in CA are crap is because 80% of the school budget goes for ADMINISTRATION. Only 20% goes to pay teachers, supply classrooms, and keep facilities in good repair.
Cops here have a starting salary around $45,000. Find me another entry-level position that's paid so well after only 3 months of training?? Nurses make about the same and doctors a whole shitload more; the problem for private practice is the malpractice insurance -- some are paying out 75% of their gross income just for that. Even so, things can't be too bad -- or doctors would be leaving CA in droves, like they've left the Maritime provinces. Try to find an oncologist in Nova Scotia, anywhere but in Halifax.
As to social services for those of us who can't afford insurance or private doctors -- the reason I, a taxpaying citizen, have to wait in line for 8 hours to get five minutes of some Pakistani intern's time, is because 90% of the other people in line are illegal aliens and there are only so many tax dollars to go around, and illegals seldom pay their fair share regardless.
It isn't America's job to support everyone else in the world, just like it's not their job to support us. But somehow America is expected to give and give and give, and that's taught the rest of the world to behave like professional beggars. Mexico has more natural wealth than America, yet is a poor country. Why? Corruption at every level. But instead of staying home and fixing the problem, they come here and bring their attitudes with them.
If your country is so bad, fix it; don't drag your problems here. If you come to my country, live like an American, don't expect ME to change my lifestyle and language for you. And if the old country is so wonderful that you simply MUST bring all its ways here (and inflict them on me) -- STAY IN THE OLD COUNTRY.
As to "people to pump your gas" -- out of all the places I've been, the level of service here is absolutely the worst, and getting worse all the time.
And at least the Terminator doesn't beat up his secretary, like a certain predecessor did.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The numbers for many of these stats are computed differently.
In the US, if you stop looking for work, you are (apparently) no longer unemployed, even though you never found a job. In Canada, you maintain your unemployed status.
In the US, to be considered a victim of a violent crime, you have to take a bullet to the head. In Cahada, to be a victim of violet crime, someone has to accidentally bump you in the checkout line at the supermarket and not say, "Sorry".
Different standards, different results.
Is that a deal-breaker on naturalization?
No, though you should at least like Tim Horton's double-double or beer. Any one of the three is a pre-requisite--the more of them you like, the better.
Oh, and you also have to spell colour correctly--with a 'u'.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Maybe it is beacuse I'm from Newfoundland (I doubt it), but I don't like double-doubles, beer OR hockey. I'm a perfectly happy Canadian and would gladly welcome more Canadians like me.
@GDP per capita Canada: $29,700
@GDP per capita USA: $37,800
What's the standard of living?
@National average total taxation Canada: 48.2 %
@National average total taxation USA: 41.4 %
What about local?
Where does the money go.
@National unemployment rate Canada: 6.6%
@National unemployment rate USA: 4.9%
Do the unemployed live in slums?
Are they as bad?
Well that is probably but it might not be.
@Total Violent crime per 100,000 people Canada: 963
@Total violent crime per 100,000 people in USA: 466
Where are those crimes? Small towns or large? East or west?
Maybe most the violent crimes in Canada happen in Toronto.
Everything can't be compared simply with 2 percent numbers.
Give me a little more information, well alot, and I can turn the apples and oranges into green apples and red apples, i.e. better to compare.
Why don't you guys have friends or journals?
Actually, the Canadian Health Care system was declared unconstitutional just this year by our Supreme Court, so yes private health care is now legal in our nation:9 /newscoc-health050609.html/.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/0
Not that this decision mattered much, as private health insurance has been available in Vancouver, Quebec, and Ontario for quite some time now (our Prime Minister's personal physician runs a private clinic).
Oh, and vision, dental, certain forms of chemo (that one was a shocker), perscription meds, and all sorts of other health care goodies aren't covered under the Canadian Health act either.
Hopefully the next generation of Canadian politicians can deal honestly with our Health Care woes, the current generation doesn't appear up to the task. Except that new coke-head from Quebec..
Bush's plan isn't amnesty, it's a pragmatic "we need cheap labor so we may as well legalize it". What he's really proposing is, essentially, to give work visas to people who already have jobs here. The only reason he uses the term "amnesty" is to con the Democrats/liberals and aliens themselves into going along with the plan.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Someone gets it...
The problem is that the US is a democracy. That means that (with some important exceptions) what the majority says, goes.
What you propose is equivalent to a gay man in Kansas changing what the public thinks of him. Not only does the public not want to listen, but they've declared him an enemy of the people. If they had their way, they'd have him tarred and feathered (figuratively or not). That's why gays all live in the city where they have at least some modicum of acceptance.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Assuming that the "tanking" of the economy will be a recession/depression with lowered demand, what is the effect on such a recession of spending a great deal of hoarded wealth? Isn't this just the classical "shock absorber" effect of buying when things are cheap and selling when things are expensive?
And since you've figured out that one can "make a bundle" by buying cheap, why don't you apply your insight to the stock market? Follow a volatile stock, and when it "tanks" buy heavily. You should make a bundle, right?
Problem is, buying is an act of faith. Just because something tanked yesterday doesn't mean it's going up tomorrow - it might tank even more tomorrow.
CIRUS, the Indian reactor in quesiton, was based on the NRX design. While it's a heavy-water-moderated/light-water-cooled design, it significantly predates CANDU. The latter is geared towards use in a nuclear power plant; NRX is geared towards materials testing, isotope production, and physics research. It is not especially better than any other research reactor at breeding isotopes -- it just that it trades off a need for (expensive) reactor grade heavy water against ordinary industrial production of the core. Other designs typically need a much much hotter and/or highly pressurized core, requiring heavy industrial processes which are harder and much more expensive.
Although the overall design was very similar NRX, and the C in CIRUS is for Canada, the "US" is there for a reason: the U.S. government provided the financing and the reactor grade heavy water to the project.
Certainly NRX, like many early reactor designes, can be coaxed into breeding weapons materials. There are even some aspects that make it easier, notably the on-line-adjustable pile and the facilities for irradiating test materials.
From a legal perspective, NRX wasn't covered by nonproliferation rules or under IAEA safeguards, mostly because most of those did not exist at the time of the sale of the relevant designs and components. Both C & US stipulated or had contract terms requiring that CIRUS be used only for peaceful purposes. India violated these terms, and both of the other parties cut off nuclear research ties for decades as a result.
Breeding, yes... they needed a source of neutrons to bombard 238U. A 238U atom occasionally captures a neutron, becomes 239U, which decays into 239Np which decays into 239Pu.
238U much more readily captures a fast neutron than a slow one. Fast neutrons are emitted by Uranium fission. A moderator turns a fast neutron into a slow one. NRX, since it uses nearly pure heavy water as a neutron moderator, supplied slow neutrons efficiently. There are much more efficient designs if the goal is to produce lots of fast neutrons in order to breed plutonium from 238U, rather than lots of slow neutrons in order to sustain a uranium fission chain reaction.
In 1960, when the reactor was first turned on, the idea of using CIRUS as the basis of a nuclear weapons program was possibly genuinely surprising. I honestly don't know. However, it did take 14 years to go from activation of CIRUS to India's first nuclear weapons test. However in retrospect, with today's knowledge, the proliferation risk would be obvious.
The important quality of nuclear weapons material is not that it is spontaneously fissile, but rather that a small mass of it compressed into a small volume of space can sustain a highly energetic nuclear chain reaction.
Democrat Gray Davis and the Democratic state legislature ruined California's economy.
"No, the #1 reason public schools in CA are crap is because 80% of the school budget goes for ADMINISTRATION. Only 20% goes to pay teachers, supply classrooms, and keep facilities in good repair."
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:)
Umm, I think you reversed those numbers. The largest operating largest cost in any school district is salaries. And the largest number of salaried bodies tends to be teachers.....
Oh, gee, here is something useful "The average spent on administration in California districts is about 7.3 percent." (http://www.sen.ca.gov/sor/policy/education/prop2
But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of your opinion
Nope. Here are the fastest growing ocupations in the US over the past 10 years:
Health aides 138%
Human service workers 136%
Personal and home care aids 130%
in other words, jobs that pay either minimum wage or just above minimum wage... about what burger flipping does. (if you have more current info on what burger flipping pays based on personal experience, feel free to respond)
Enjoy your fantasy world while it lasts, the slow-motion trainwreck America is headed for will last you for the rest of your life. Hint: that fantasy world is based on cheap oil... I take it you belong to the Intelligent Design, oops, I mean the "abiotic" school of "thought" on the origin of oil as well.
Tech Public Policy stuff
the job of being a 'health' aid is really bad. the pay is bad, the job is horrible and probably should make one of those lists for worst jobs. unlike the guys who inspect the sewage pipes in person-- many people have this job. the ONLY redeeming part is it makes you feel good about yourself when you help some sick person. (by inserting medication into their ass...)
[snork] I think you're probably right :D
I just had a disturbing thought comparing "puppies and ice cream for all" to a stockyard, where you get all you can eat for free... until they haul you away to become hamburger.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Just to give some context. The Liberal government will be brought down in the next few days and an election early next year is a certainty. So the Liberals are recruiting for voters. They do this in two ways: 1. By using scare tactics that the other party - the Conservatives - will align Canada with the US and create a two tier medical system (again like the States). For years the Canadians have been fed horror stories about US medicine. 2. By encouraging even more third world immigration into Canada and expediting anyone who, even remotely, appears to have appropriate qualifications. Why? Well immigrants vote almost exclusively for the Liberal and are scared of the 'red kneck' Conservatives. So.... this is simply a cynical attempt to get a few last minute voters into the Liberal camp. Will it work. Of course, the Libs have been in power for more than 50 of the last 70 years. Despite the amazingly good press Canada gets from the liberal US press (Liberals, liberals - see the connection) Canada is as close to a one party state as a modern democracy can be. For the US readers. Sorry to disappoint, but this law is not really intended for you. For the record I live in Canada.
- GDP is a pointless number to base anything on. It counts all the cash that moves around, regardless of whether that cash is spent doing anything productive. You could dig a $1 million dollar hole, then spend another $1 million filling it, and that would increase your GDP by $2 million. Try using purchase price parity or something less... random. Moreover, GDP has basically no effect on the population whatsoever. Median household income is far more pertinent, and currently median household income in Canada (~$56k CAD/year) is around 9% higher than that of the US (~$44k USD/year, or around ~$51k CAD).
- Average total taxation is out of date. The tax situation has changed pretty substantially both north and south of the border since 1998 (for example, exemptions are now indexed to CPI in Canada, dividend income is nontaxable up to 25k, etc). I would love to see an up-to-date version.
- Unemployment rates are calculated completely differently between the US and Canada. Add the 'discouraged' rates to current US unemployment rates, and take into account the difference in labour force utilization (canada routinely has a couple % higher utilization, mostly due to people magically disappearing from US labour force when they don't fall under the specific categories that allows them to be considered employable). Sadly, neither country tracks underemployed people, but I suppose it's a difficult measure to gauge.
- Violent crime statistics in the US are calculated differently than those in Canada. In the US, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, violent crime in the US is comprised of "The number of persons arrested for homicide, forcible rape, robbery or aggravated assault as reported by law enforcement agencies to the FBI." Notice that there is no mention of basic assaults (ie. bar fights) that ARE included in the canadian statistics you provided, and which account for the vast vast majority of incidents reported. However, an apples-to-apples comparison is here. In summary: Violent crime in canada is substantially less, whereas property crime is essentially parallel.
If comparisons MUST be made, at the very least they should be intellectually honest.
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
You think you're overtaxed? Take a gander at pretty much anywhere else in the western world. The UK? Forgeddaboutit. France? Ha! The nordic countries? Not only are you taxed like a madman, there's an upper cap on yearly income there.
Canada is only 'overtaxed' compared to the US, and then only by a fairly thin margin. I paid roughly 22% combined personal and corporate taxes on a six figure income last year, thanks to the massive breaks and deductions given to small business owners in Canada. I'm certainly not going to complain about that level of taxation, and I'd much rather pay an extra point or two to keep my country from sliding into the social darwinist hell that the US is currently slipping into.
Taxes are the dues we pay for civilization. If you're in such dire desire of less civilization, move south.
The US lets you deduct the interest portion of your mortgage payments.
In Canada, your principal residence has no captial gains. With a married couple, you can make that apply to home AND cottage.
The US system is more inviting in the short term, more immediate consequences; the Canadian benefit comes much later, or to the heirs.
Not sure of the rules up North, but I think handguns are frowned upon. I like my personal defense too much to give it up. Same reason I won't live in Jersey.
This thread is pretty long so I'm only reading +5 comments, but I'm surprised to see nothing about international policy.
As a Canadian skilled tech worker the major negative thing I see about living/working in the U.S. is foreign policy, including IRAQ. Some people prefer to live in a country that doesn't interfere as much with the affairs of others.
So did everyone who mentioned IRAQ or Afghanistan get modded down as a troll?
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I support spreading santorum
It is reprehensible that my (previous) informative post was modded flamebait. I link directly to the state department, after all.
Well, at least my first flamebait post wasn't wasted on something useless.
The United States will have no serious problem with the taxation issues. You see, since some citizens were using renunciation as a tax evasion tool, the U.S. Government now retains the power to tax your earnings for something like the ten years prior to, and the ten years following, the renunciation of citizenship. What they really want to avoid is someone waking up with a hangover saying "I renounced what now?"
So, it isn't a big problem as far as the
Jim
A few months ago, I woke up in the middle of the night with terrible stomach pains. Thought it was gas, walked it off after a few hours.
Couple nights later, same thing, only ten times worse. I let my wife talk me into going to hospital.
Got there at 4 AM, was in a bed and had an IV going by 4:10, was Xrayed at 6 AM, Ultrasounded at 8 AM, and diagnosed with terrible gall stones by 10 AM. Surgery was scheduled for about 11 days later, with a tip of not to eat fat in the meantime, and come back to emergency if I had another attack.
11 days later, I show at the hospital for my laproscopic gall bladder removal at 8:30, I'm on a gurney at 10:30, and I'm in recovery at 11:30. I'm being picked up by my wife at 3:30 that afternoon, and I'm home by four.
Total cost, out of pocket, to me? Four bucks parking, times two. 50 or 60 bucks for a perscription of Tylenol-3.
I remember thinking something like 'Wow. If I was American, this would potentially actually be a decision for me to make; get the surgery, go in debt? Or try to live with a blocked gall bladder, and hope it doesn't get worse?'
This is relatively small-town Canada; the town is around 10,000 people, and the hospital also covers some smaller towns and municipalities around the area.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
wow... that's completely different from what I've heard and read from others. But even so, given your description, I don't mind being wrong!
Will they hire someone without a degree? Who kept working for companies that went out of business? Who hasn't worked in the field in 10 years? Who is over 45 in age? Who has mental illness? Who is desperate to work? You know your desperate for employees when you hire someone like that! THE guy who put in his resume: "I specialize in working for companies going out of business" (yep, I did!)
I'll think of a really good SIG just before I die.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Hi. A Canadian guy here. Worked most of my life in Canada. Worked in San Francisco during the dot-com boom. Working now in Texas.
:P ;)
Making decent money here, certainly better than I could expect back in Canada (even excluding the exchange rate). Living modestly, so things like property tax aren't taking me to the cleaners.
Yeah, I complain occasionally about the lack of *cough* 'free' healthcare. But then I remember what Peel Memorial Hospital in Brampton was like, and compare that with the wonderful hospital experience my wife and I had here in Texas last year. (Okay, so I have PPO.) She had a kidney stone. She was, as you might imagine, in a lot of pain. The time to get checked-in was trivial, the wait for some meaningful painkillers (ie, morphine) wasn't, but was definitely less than an hour after we arrived. Think it was closer to 30-40 mins, and even that seemed like forever. I can't imagine what that would have been like, had we been at the likes of Peel Memorial.
I remember some years back when I was still in Canada, that there was an increase in hospitalization in the Greater Toronto Area close to Christmas. And I remember it being big news that ALL hospitals in the GTA were turning away all new patients except for critical care. Slipped on some ice and bonked your head? Take a Tylenol and get ready for a roadtrip.
Don't even get me started on idiots who go to the ER for a cold.
Speaking of my wife, she comes from a Land Down Undah. She continues to be incredulous at how uptight the media here in the USA is (thanks FCC!) and how widespread (and hypocritical) the God-fearing culture here is. (Recently seen on TV: "God will guide me to do the right thing," a woman says, moments before she beats the living crap out of her boyfriend. Of course she begs for forgiveness from her God, allowing her to wipe the slate clean. But I digress.) After observing mid-western culture, she realized that the overbearing religious cultural theme is something which also existed in Australia some 50+ years ago. To quote her, "They got over it." And shocker of shockers, hearing norty words on the radio or seeing norty bits on TV hasn't caused any non-American country to start circling the drain.
My wife tells me that the healthcare system in Aussie sounds an awful lot like the healthcare system in Canada. Without the overflowing waiting rooms and long waits, that is. Going from memory, I guess MPP Mike Harris did his best to aggravate that situation.
So given the choice between moving back to Canada and moving to Aussie, I'm leaning very strongly in the direction of Aussie. From what I've been able to research, the tax rates are fairly similar, but at least I'll never have to worry again about having to clear my sidewalk of snow, having to plug my car's block heater in, having to wear long underwear, gloves and a parka just to drive my car in Jan/Feb, being forced to 'enjoy' a crusty layer of salt and sand on my car on nearly a daily basis (excluding those few hours after a rare but pointless car washing) during the winter months, having to pay a rustproofing surcharge on a new car or be open to the idea of premature car cancer (rust). Ah, memories of Hallowe'en where there's snow on the ground or miserably cold rain falling. Sigh.
On the flip side, I get to look forward to learning how to drive a car (on the left side of the road) or reading up on what to do when confronted with a Huntsman spider. Maybe in the off-hours I'll take up something simple like chainsaw juggling.
The Canadian government isn't entirely stupid. They may be offering $700m to entice the talent to stay in Canada, but at a 46.5% tax rate, they'll be getting a decent chunk of it back.
I moved to Toronto in late April from Connecticut. I was serious when I said I'd do it.
Got in under the skilled worker program. When people ask why I either answer "Better beer," if I'm tired of answering the question, or "Midlife crisis - had to get out of CT, and besides, I didn't like what was happening politically in the U.S." And it's true - when the Pod People (brainwashed Bush voters) gave the whole Abu Ghraib/torture scandal thing a free pass, I knew it was over for the US. The country's in decline and I want to get off the train wreck before it inevitably crashes.
I love it here, in case anyone's interested. It's not perfect, and the taxes are higher, but not as bad as the Pod People would have you believe. And at least my tax money's paying for my social safety net, rather than someone else's f**king illegal war.
And yes, I got a job fairly quickly - I was working again in less than three months. However, I will state it's easier for Americans than other immigrants. And I did get lucky - Canadians have a bias towards "Canadian experience" which means you might have to do volunteer work for awhile (yes, that means for free) before anyone will take you seriously. I was fortunate in that the company that pulled my resume off Workopolis needed someone with American experience as well.
I'm happy I made the move. I ditched my car, BTW, and now go to work by bus and travel around Toronto on the subway. It's a bit more inconvenient but I have a LOT more money at the end of the month and that compensates very well for the inconvience, thankyouverymuch.
Canada ROCKS, mes amis!!!
A billionairre can lose 99% of his assets and still be a multi-millionairre. More importantly, he can still survive and provide anything his family and friends might need.
A middle-class person can lose just 20% of his assets, and that might be enough to send them on a downward spiral resulting in bankruptcy and homelessness. If a middle-class person lost 99% of their assets, they probably would not be able to cover their base expenses for the next month. The rich guy would still be able to afford his health care after losing 99% of his assets.
The rich can afford to invest a higher percentage of their money with a lower risk to their survival. You seem to think a billionairre investing 10% of his money is the same thing as someone with $200K net work investing 10% of their money. It's not the same situation and that is a gross oversimplification. One that makes me think you are a Republican, but I'm just guessing. It is indeed easier to make more money if you have more money. Even if you take percentages into account!
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
the map in question.