Wait what? Why is it stupid to drive away business that opens you up to potentially being sued by game makers for facilitating the sale of someone else's intellectual property? are you claiming it's stupid to get out of bad business practices because "other people will just pick where we leave off"? Also how is ebay "messing with supply and demand"? it's not like they are deleting items from WoW's database. or charging extra fees based on demand for vitual goods. they are just getting out of the business of facilitating transactions for these items.
The only way to prevent the sale of in-game artifacts is to make them non-transferable, and that's never going to happen.
some games actually do this for a substatial number of items. While they couldn't do it for all items it has an added benefit of requiring people to grind for items themselves.
I'm no fan of ebay, but your argument makes no sense.
Because, in the end, what's wrong with selling people your time or services to them? Because it's a thinly veiled end run around the rules. I would imagine that since this isnt law, but rather a TOS policy, ebay can easily just say "Selling virtual items or services to provide virtual items is prohibited." Especially since the items aren't the intellectual property of the seller. I'm sure some clever folks will still sell this stuff more subtly. But having to be subtle will decrease your exposure to your customers, and thus your profits.
This is roughly the same as if you did not do a reverse DNS check followed by a forward lookup on a contacting IP address to verify that the machine contacting you is in the domain which the claim to be from. Your SMTP server might as well be an open relay. might want to leave that part out when you explain this to regular people;)
Wow. way to pidgeon hole people with concerns about this. That almost sounds like a "why do you hate our freedom?" argument or a "you're either with us or against us!"
actually, I think most people are going to be FOR non-leathal warfare technology, and I cant imagine why people would be against it. Personally I look at that thing and to me it *looks* impractical. a giant laser sitting on a truck like that with 500 yards range seems like a great target for someone with an rpg. But I dont know enough about it. Which is why I might express this concern in a "kneejerk" reaction against this. you know, in order to learn more by asking questions and raising concerns.
either way this looks like a promising step forward. I just dont see why you felt the need to try and frame the conversation so black and white like that.
While it's nice to think regulators would fix it I found there were a few reasons why this wouldnt happen. I did a little research on those stock spams. since there had been so many, it got me curious as to what was going on to stop them.
1) many of the companies that are promoted in the pump and dump schemes are not involved and often dont know for months that they are also victims of the spam. basically its hard to know who really is (spam coming from open relays etc)
2) most of these stocks are what they call pink slip or OTC (over the counter) stocks not traded on exchages like the NYSE or CME, thus not falling under the SEC (i think, please correct me here im no stock expert)
3) it appears that these spams are more of a scam to drive people to brokerages, or stock advisors. if you google one of the symbols in the spams, you will find very shady looking, hastily constructed sites who's sole purpose is to grab the #1 google ranking for the word "spam" and the symbol in the email.
I could be wrong about the purpose but I think there is more to this scam than pump and dump. ymmv.
It's human nature to be "brand horny" though. And there is nothing wrong with that. Some people want to know they can trust what they are putting in thier bodies and what to know there is a public brand that needs protection from the bad press a company would get if something went wrong. Some of this trust may be unfounded, and a lot of it may be due to the convinience of remembering a single name for your drug . But these are very real peoblems with the PATENT system, and drug companies abusing that system as well as the consumer trust. Dont put this on consumers, because ideally they wouldn't have to be looking over thier shoulder and checking up on the honesty of these companies at every turn. I agree consumers could benefit from being more proactive but let's get the guys that are scamming them.
my appologies steveha, i wrongly attributed the sensationalism to you and zonk. and, eventhough i expect as much from zonk (he is probably my least favorite editor), it was a bad assumtion nonetheless. clearly the author of this article used the idea of ID to spice up their writing. the fact the he did that detracts from the ideas being talked about. *that* was what i was reacting to. sorry for misdirecting it towards you.
"In the discussions of intelligent design, one hears a yearning for an old-fashioned creation story, in which some singular, inchoate entity stepped in to give rise to complex life-forms--humans in particular. "
In The discussion of evolutionary biology, one hears a yearning for people to leave out the ideas behind itellegent design so that the scientists can get back to doing their work.
Seriously, what's wrong with this poster and slashdot editor for letting this through? Why did that need to be included for this to be talked about? Nice of the poster to inject a controvertial personal view in the end of his submission for all of us to flame about.
Ah yes that's very true. And with those lists they can claim a prior business relationship with you getting around most spam and marketing laws (such as the do not call list).
Exactly. This guy is a coupon cutting ninny trying to explain away something he knows to be wrong.
Companies are in business to make money and are doing this to *drumroll* make money. There are two ways this can make them money:
1) "Breakage" as they call it. People dont send in the rebates. But this often goes further than comsumer's mistakes. Sometimes companies take way longer than they should in sending back your rebate or will send you a letter claiming that your paperwork is incorrect and that you must resubmit that receipt from that product you bought 3 months ago. And we'll get you that $50 rebate in just a couple more months.
2) they can upsell you while you are in the store or upsell you through advertising (if your are looking at that super cheap computer maybe you will look at the product on the next page)
In his indignance he is saying we should be ok with a very anoying practice that distorts advertised prices and, by it's nature, has at least SOME occurance of fraud -- what level, i don't claim to know.
These articles are like "is apple dying?" articles. Need to run one of them every few months as per the publishers guidebook for easy stories. Not that this story is wrong but talking about games like Bejewelled-like as some sort of new market is silly.
From the article, "Until recently, the market for electronic games was mainly young, male, and diehard."
Not at all.
Girls have outnumbered guys playing games for years and it's all games like this with companies capitalizing all along.
For once i would like to see information on how this effects more traditionally "guy" games. For instance i bet the are significantly more girls playing WoW than ever played Ultima Online despite it still being vastly a male audience. Also would like to see how girls have influced the creation of more advanced games that cater to their gender more so than their male counterparts -- such as Black and White or The Sims.
Well said. Except for the happy medium thing I couldn't agree more.
For me, I'd say keep those ultra realistic features out of my game. I want fast paced action and not a bunch of people learning how to aim and a whole lot of wasted ammo. But that's me. And I fully appreciate that some people want hyper realistic. So it's pretty easy really. Some game makers focus on gameplay, others create super realistic games (Rainbow 6 maybe? i dunno). And to me, I am happy to have the choice. What makes me unhappy is when someone's ego comes strutting along and complains that my UT2004 pyhsics stink. To that I'd say go play ms flight sim:P
You have a nice sounding analogy there but i think you made the wrong correlation.
This would be more akin to stealing the enemy's weapon stock pile or designs and destroying them. rendering them powerless.
also, there is no reason to assume that by taking patents you are condoning them. Condoning them would require holding them over someone to prevent them from doing their work, or, gettng paid for it. However, I believe the idea here is just to protect those who WANT to give their work away for free.
you're kidding yourself if you think a 1mb file is gonna take down doubleclick even with slashdot's enormous traffic it's tiny copared to what they serve out in a day. but it's a nice thought:)
Slashdot Mirror
some games actually do this for a substatial number of items. While they couldn't do it for all items it has an added benefit of requiring people to grind for items themselves.
I'm no fan of ebay, but your argument makes no sense.
actually, I think most people are going to be FOR non-leathal warfare technology, and I cant imagine why people would be against it. Personally I look at that thing and to me it *looks* impractical. a giant laser sitting on a truck like that with 500 yards range seems like a great target for someone with an rpg. But I dont know enough about it. Which is why I might express this concern in a "kneejerk" reaction against this. you know, in order to learn more by asking questions and raising concerns.
either way this looks like a promising step forward. I just dont see why you felt the need to try and frame the conversation so black and white like that.
1) many of the companies that are promoted in the pump and dump schemes are not involved and often dont know for months that they are also victims of the spam. basically its hard to know who really is (spam coming from open relays etc)
2) most of these stocks are what they call pink slip or OTC (over the counter) stocks not traded on exchages like the NYSE or CME, thus not falling under the SEC (i think, please correct me here im no stock expert)
3) it appears that these spams are more of a scam to drive people to brokerages, or stock advisors. if you google one of the symbols in the spams, you will find very shady looking, hastily constructed sites who's sole purpose is to grab the #1 google ranking for the word "spam" and the symbol in the email.
I could be wrong about the purpose but I think there is more to this scam than pump and dump. ymmv.
Apparently you have never suffered from disastrous cheese overflow.
It's human nature to be "brand horny" though. And there is nothing wrong with that. Some people want to know they can trust what they are putting in thier bodies and what to know there is a public brand that needs protection from the bad press a company would get if something went wrong. Some of this trust may be unfounded, and a lot of it may be due to the convinience of remembering a single name for your drug . But these are very real peoblems with the PATENT system, and drug companies abusing that system as well as the consumer trust. Dont put this on consumers, because ideally they wouldn't have to be looking over thier shoulder and checking up on the honesty of these companies at every turn. I agree consumers could benefit from being more proactive but let's get the guys that are scamming them.
I was going to moderate your comment but I couldn't find the "+1 creepy" option.
my appologies steveha, i wrongly attributed the sensationalism to you and zonk. and, eventhough i expect as much from zonk (he is probably my least favorite editor), it was a bad assumtion nonetheless. clearly the author of this article used the idea of ID to spice up their writing. the fact the he did that detracts from the ideas being talked about. *that* was what i was reacting to. sorry for misdirecting it towards you.
In The discussion of evolutionary biology, one hears a yearning for people to leave out the ideas behind itellegent design so that the scientists can get back to doing their work.
Seriously, what's wrong with this poster and slashdot editor for letting this through? Why did that need to be included for this to be talked about? Nice of the poster to inject a controvertial personal view in the end of his submission for all of us to flame about.
I've always liked the collective-chicken-flailing thing. Meh, to each his own I guess. You go on and be rational if that suits you.
I thought it was... but it's not. not at all.
robot advil helps in the morning though.
How many jillions are in a hojillion again?
Are 3 frikken sharks with frikken laser beams on thier heads better than 2 frikken sharks with frikken laser beams on thier heads?
I think this puts the issue to rest.
Ah yes that's very true. And with those lists they can claim a prior business relationship with you getting around most spam and marketing laws (such as the do not call list).
Companies are in business to make money and are doing this to *drumroll* make money. There are two ways this can make them money:
1) "Breakage" as they call it. People dont send in the rebates. But this often goes further than comsumer's mistakes. Sometimes companies take way longer than they should in sending back your rebate or will send you a letter claiming that your paperwork is incorrect and that you must resubmit that receipt from that product you bought 3 months ago. And we'll get you that $50 rebate in just a couple more months.
2) they can upsell you while you are in the store or upsell you through advertising (if your are looking at that super cheap computer maybe you will look at the product on the next page)
In his indignance he is saying we should be ok with a very anoying practice that distorts advertised prices and, by it's nature, has at least SOME occurance of fraud -- what level, i don't claim to know.
he can go jump in a lake as far as im concerned :)
From the article, "Until recently, the market for electronic games was mainly young, male, and diehard."
Not at all.
Girls have outnumbered guys playing games for years and it's all games like this with companies capitalizing all along.
For once i would like to see information on how this effects more traditionally "guy" games. For instance i bet the are significantly more girls playing WoW than ever played Ultima Online despite it still being vastly a male audience. Also would like to see how girls have influced the creation of more advanced games that cater to their gender more so than their male counterparts -- such as Black and White or The Sims.
I'm not holding my breath though ;)
YM-MMV
Well said. Except for the happy medium thing I couldn't agree more. For me, I'd say keep those ultra realistic features out of my game. I want fast paced action and not a bunch of people learning how to aim and a whole lot of wasted ammo. But that's me. And I fully appreciate that some people want hyper realistic. So it's pretty easy really. Some game makers focus on gameplay, others create super realistic games (Rainbow 6 maybe? i dunno). And to me, I am happy to have the choice. What makes me unhappy is when someone's ego comes strutting along and complains that my UT2004 pyhsics stink. To that I'd say go play ms flight sim :P
You have a nice sounding analogy there but i think you made the wrong correlation. This would be more akin to stealing the enemy's weapon stock pile or designs and destroying them. rendering them powerless. also, there is no reason to assume that by taking patents you are condoning them. Condoning them would require holding them over someone to prevent them from doing their work, or, gettng paid for it. However, I believe the idea here is just to protect those who WANT to give their work away for free.
who said the taco was going to kill it?
You might be right but threatening to kill the president is a far cry from using the word "democracy".
how do you write "dmeocarcy" in chinese?
you're kidding yourself if you think a 1mb file is gonna take down doubleclick even with slashdot's enormous traffic it's tiny copared to what they serve out in a day. but it's a nice thought :)
archtypical.... perfect word to describe it. well said.