Interesting... so its the natural scarcity of wood that makes books so valuable, not the content? Could have fooled me, given that a book of blank pages is siginifcantly cheaper that one already filled with content.
I hate to break it to you, but physical items are already out as a way to make money. Yes, there are some niche things that don't follow the rule... but look at most anything... corn, building materials, fast food, computers. Face it, our economy is based on SERVICES. You don't grow your own food, you pay others to do it. You don't build your own house, you hire others to do it. You don't even cook your own food at least some of the time.
Content (which you dismiss as IP) is what matters... not the medium. People value the story, not the form of expression. Nobody buys a computer without software because it would be useless without software... but the fact that you can do your accounting on computers doesn't mean you'd not have accounting without computers.
So that's why there's still plenty of software packages commanding thousands of dollars per license, meanwhile hardware prices are at rock bottom? I'd argue that hardware is much more commoditized than software.
For whatever reason people associate the entire gaming industry with organized crime.
Well, it largely is. I mean, they write the laws, and then they exempt themselves so that they can have odds that private casinos would not legally be allowed to have. In may places they outlaw any competition. But its good because its used to fund eductation.
Cloud computing is just what it sounds like; something meant to obscure whats really going on. Nobody seems to know if it was a single server or the data center. And thats the risk of the cloud... you won't really know whats going on at the other end.
So while they'll say "let us manage it" they'll really do that same things you did anyway; keep only as many servers as you need, and they may more may not be backing up your data. Oh, and your data doesn't even need to be lost, just unavailable because the internet isn't as reliable as everyone would like you to think.
Hmm... I never really got sick that much, but after changing my lifestyle to eating healthy and exercising, I haven't been sick in years. At all. Perhaps its not the shot, its that your lifestyle has reached the tipping point where you're hindering your immune system. And I HAVE been around people who have been sick.
Its ok to get the flu you'll be better off for it, as would everyone else. Think about it... you don't use your muscles, they break down. You need to stress them to improve them. Same for bones (stress, not break..). Same with your brain; you get dumber by not doing anything intelligent.
So why do people want their immune system of all things to NEVER be stressed? It neesd to actually fight disease to know how to do anything.
Or you could let nature take its course; be sick for a few days, and your body's immune system is now stronger.
There's a reason that older people are the least likely to devleop swine flu; its because their generation wasn't a bunch of panty-wastes afraid of getting the slightest cold and they didn't run around disinfecting the hell out of evertying. People today are sicker because of this nonsense.
Sigh. There are rights and rights. There is nothing that says the rights that are entailed by being human and those that are entailed by being a citizen are identical.
You seem to fail at comprehension. But please point me to where Liberalism makes this distinction, because I have yet to see it.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
This document however says nothing about a right to privacy.
Rights are not granted by a piece of paper... which is exactly what that document says. Humans are "endowed by their Creator" with them. Also, please learn to fucking read "that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Clearly indicates there rights which they did not mention.
Where as the Constitution which enumerates our rights only applies to citizens and does talk about something that could interpreted as a right to privacy.
No, the Consitution enumerates what the US government CANNOT DO. Again, it doesn't grant rights, it restricts government to ensure rights are not violated. It also says we have other rights which are left to the people (amendments 9 & 10). Also note that it says the government CANNOT DO certain things, period. For example, the fifth amendment says "No person shall be..." It says "person," not "citizen."
Finally, if you actually DID read anything Jefferson wrote, you'd know nobody intended the bill of rights to be an enumeration of rights. Read his thoughts on the bill of rights in a letter between Jefferson and Maddison.
Yes *this* court found. Given how the decision was written by the judge, I'm expecting the decision to be over-turned by a higher level, and the right to sell the Autodesk CD on ebay.com to be revoked.
You're getting worked up over something that may or may not happen.
And I WAS annoyed with you because in your original post, you made it sound like I must be stuck with the Autodesk CD forever, and never able to convert it back to its original form (approximately 50 dollars). I am certainly entitled to convert my wealth from dollars-to-Autodesk CD-and-back to dollars. To say otherwise is a violation of my property rights.
You're not converting anything. You're buying a copyrighted work for an amount of money. You can sell that work back, but again, this has nothing to do with property rights, because copyrighted works aren't property. Do you believe you own the massage girl if you buy a massage from her? Because I think you're buying a service, which is not property either.
I've seen a few people say this, and its blatetnly false. The oppressive element is being watched, period. Its already been proven that people will modify their behavior if they are being directly watched. For example, some people may not go into the porn store if they know that anyone could be watching them do so.
I don't see where the head is wider than her pelvis; it might look like that, but her pevlis is also turned about 45 degrees, making it look narrower. Not that they didn't photoshop it, but there are other tricks to be done before you even get the photo onto a computer (Myspace voodoo).
No, I didn't say they were the good guy, because they clearly didn't do their homework. At the same time, I'm sure the companies made it sound much less intrusive than it actually would be. I doubt Sony cares if their competitors cds are ripped off, only the ones that they are paying to protect. But those companies probably did a lot of lying through omission.
Well if you went back up the thread you'd know my point; that Sony probaly shouldn't be making it easy to pirate games by offering a way to transfer games from UMD to memory stick for existing PSP owners. In other words, what they've already done. As I said some people WILL steal. So why should Sony make it easier to do so? If they want to include DRM, that's up to them. If they don't, its their call too. Its also their call to NOT give a utility or make it easy to transfer from UMD to memory stick.
You could as well advise to put everybody to jail because we all do minor crimes pretty much all the time. (Ripped CD? Yes. Don't try to hide it. RIAA says it's illegal.) And often this is trespassing of the laws we never heard of. And since you try to drive the discussion in the direction, let's start by putting you behind the bars first. You can start thanking me for setting you on the right track.
WTF dude? Sony NOT giving you a way to move your UMD games to memory stick is the same as putting people in jail? Get a fucking grip, and stop with strawmen.
As far as ripping CDs goes, that has been established to be legal. Not legal is breaking DRM controls to do so, but since redbook never included DRM, ripping them is fine.
If you have mindset of thief, then yes. Sorry to have misjudged you.
Ahh, more strawmen and red herrings. You failed basic logic courses, didn't you? The fact that people (even if its most) will buy digital media does not mean that everyone will. The fact that some people will steal regardless also doesn't lead to the conclusion that Sony shouldn't even attempt to throw up roadblocks to stop some of them.
P.S. This depends on publisher. Games published on Impulse by indies and StarDock themselves often have no copy protection of any sort. Not even serial number check.
Indeed. The reason is likely that they are desperate for sales. You protect something according to its value... if you're only going to sell 500 copies anyway, it doesn't make sense to invest in a 3rd party DRM solution (which you will have to pay for) or build your own (which costs you as well). A few larger publishers may do so to gain goodwill in their customer base, but that doesn't mean things aren't pirating.
My PS3 is fine after the latest update, as is my PSP. I haven't done the recent Wii update, but its been fine so far. A friend of mine is on his 4th 360. I also have a sony receiver, still working very nicely, an old 36" sony crt tv, more or less working nicely, and a new 52" bravia, which is a pretty awesome tv. Its about two months old, and still working perfectly (although out of the box it wanted to do a 10MB upgrade, which I let it do).
Sony didn't build the software, nor do I think the intent was to damage PCs. Most likely, they fell to marketing hype from these companies claiming their copy protection systems couldn't be broken.
Given that some PS3s might not even have a network connection, I fail to see how its mandatory. Maybe a few game in a few months will require that version of the firmware to play the game, but existing games will run just fine.
You have some sort of issue, which I can't figure out. What you want is exactly what the court found, yet you somehow claim that the findings are erroding your property rights.
They aren't, because property rights don't apply, because you're not dealing in property at all. You're dealing with content. And yes, you should be able to sell that content provided you keep no copy for yourself. But software sales / licensings are not a matter of property rights, because SOFTWARE IS NOT PROPERTY. Purchasing something doesn't make it property. You can purchase things OTHER than property, which is my point.
I never said you couldn't own the disc. But the OP was suggesting that because he can't own the CONTENT on that disc, that his property rights are being somehow erroded.
I never said anything about autodesk or their claim, I was only responding to the OP that seems to believe you can own an idea and his assertion that if he can't, somehow his property rights are being erroded.
It is nonsense, because software is not property any more than the concept of five is property. Acknowledging this does nothing to the fact that you can own property though; just becaue I can't own software doesn't mean I can own a bicycle.
As far as property rights being the foundation of the economy, I hate to break this to you but the service sector is by far the largest part of the economy now, to the tune of 80% of it.
Well, Apple with iTMS (and many other download services) proved already false the presumption that people would pirate anyway.
No, it proves that some people will pay. It doesn't prove that these same people aren't "sharing" their now DRM free songs on limewire or what-have you. And it certainly doesn't prove that pirates stopped pirating, which is unlikely.
Pissed customer is much likelier to pirate.
You mean like pissed customers are more likely to steal tangible items, all other factors being equal?
E.g. on Impulse you can get many games without any sort of copy protection. Many of them also available for free on BitTorrent. Despite that Impulse still manages sufficient sales. (And I'm a customer there.)
Which only proves that some people will pay. Other will steal, and some will help them. Of course, the first game I clicked on (Far Cry 2) also has protection. So does CoD4. Opps and BattleField 2... looks like many of the games people would want to pay for are protected. Goblins 2 isn't though.
Thanks for the anecdote, but its not evidence of anything, it doesn't even back up your point.
Slashdot Mirror
Interesting... so its the natural scarcity of wood that makes books so valuable, not the content? Could have fooled me, given that a book of blank pages is siginifcantly cheaper that one already filled with content.
I hate to break it to you, but physical items are already out as a way to make money. Yes, there are some niche things that don't follow the rule... but look at most anything... corn, building materials, fast food, computers. Face it, our economy is based on SERVICES. You don't grow your own food, you pay others to do it. You don't build your own house, you hire others to do it. You don't even cook your own food at least some of the time.
Content (which you dismiss as IP) is what matters... not the medium. People value the story, not the form of expression. Nobody buys a computer without software because it would be useless without software... but the fact that you can do your accounting on computers doesn't mean you'd not have accounting without computers.
So that's why there's still plenty of software packages commanding thousands of dollars per license, meanwhile hardware prices are at rock bottom? I'd argue that hardware is much more commoditized than software.
I don't associate the gambling industry with organized crime, but I consider it predatory.
Hm... do you consider the alcohol industry preditory? What about fast food?
For whatever reason people associate the entire gaming industry with organized crime.
Well, it largely is. I mean, they write the laws, and then they exempt themselves so that they can have odds that private casinos would not legally be allowed to have. In may places they outlaw any competition. But its good because its used to fund eductation.
I like generic stuff like that, because it's so vague as to always be right. Which makes it useless.
Although I'm not sure the internet has been done before.
Cloud computing is just what it sounds like; something meant to obscure whats really going on. Nobody seems to know if it was a single server or the data center. And thats the risk of the cloud... you won't really know whats going on at the other end.
So while they'll say "let us manage it" they'll really do that same things you did anyway; keep only as many servers as you need, and they may more may not be backing up your data. Oh, and your data doesn't even need to be lost, just unavailable because the internet isn't as reliable as everyone would like you to think.
Hmm... I never really got sick that much, but after changing my lifestyle to eating healthy and exercising, I haven't been sick in years. At all. Perhaps its not the shot, its that your lifestyle has reached the tipping point where you're hindering your immune system. And I HAVE been around people who have been sick.
Its ok to get the flu you'll be better off for it, as would everyone else. Think about it... you don't use your muscles, they break down. You need to stress them to improve them. Same for bones (stress, not break..). Same with your brain; you get dumber by not doing anything intelligent.
So why do people want their immune system of all things to NEVER be stressed? It neesd to actually fight disease to know how to do anything.
Or you could let nature take its course; be sick for a few days, and your body's immune system is now stronger.
There's a reason that older people are the least likely to devleop swine flu; its because their generation wasn't a bunch of panty-wastes afraid of getting the slightest cold and they didn't run around disinfecting the hell out of evertying. People today are sicker because of this nonsense.
Sigh. There are rights and rights. There is nothing that says the rights that are entailed by being human and those that are entailed by being a citizen are identical.
You seem to fail at comprehension. But please point me to where Liberalism makes this distinction, because I have yet to see it.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
This document however says nothing about a right to privacy.
Rights are not granted by a piece of paper... which is exactly what that document says. Humans are "endowed by their Creator" with them. Also, please learn to fucking read "that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Clearly indicates there rights which they did not mention.
Where as the Constitution which enumerates our rights only applies to citizens and does talk about something that could interpreted as a right to privacy.
No, the Consitution enumerates what the US government CANNOT DO. Again, it doesn't grant rights, it restricts government to ensure rights are not violated. It also says we have other rights which are left to the people (amendments 9 & 10). Also note that it says the government CANNOT DO certain things, period. For example, the fifth amendment says "No person shall be ..." It says "person," not "citizen."
Finally, if you actually DID read anything Jefferson wrote, you'd know nobody intended the bill of rights to be an enumeration of rights. Read his thoughts on the bill of rights in a letter between Jefferson and Maddison.
http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/59/Letter_from_Thomas_Jefferson_to_James_Madison_1.html
Oh, if you really want a right to privacy, much of it is defined in the fifth amendment as well.
Yes *this* court found. Given how the decision was written by the judge, I'm expecting the decision to be over-turned by a higher level, and the right to sell the Autodesk CD on ebay.com to be revoked.
You're getting worked up over something that may or may not happen.
And I WAS annoyed with you because in your original post, you made it sound like I must be stuck with the Autodesk CD forever, and never able to convert it back to its original form (approximately 50 dollars). I am certainly entitled to convert my wealth from dollars-to-Autodesk CD-and-back to dollars. To say otherwise is a violation of my property rights.
You're not converting anything. You're buying a copyrighted work for an amount of money. You can sell that work back, but again, this has nothing to do with property rights, because copyrighted works aren't property. Do you believe you own the massage girl if you buy a massage from her? Because I think you're buying a service, which is not property either.
Well stop pirating office and you won't have those kinds of problems.
I've seen a few people say this, and its blatetnly false. The oppressive element is being watched, period. Its already been proven that people will modify their behavior if they are being directly watched. For example, some people may not go into the porn store if they know that anyone could be watching them do so.
Sure you weren't seeing thier serratus muscles?
Erin Stern?
I don't see where the head is wider than her pelvis; it might look like that, but her pevlis is also turned about 45 degrees, making it look narrower. Not that they didn't photoshop it, but there are other tricks to be done before you even get the photo onto a computer (Myspace voodoo).
No, I didn't say they were the good guy, because they clearly didn't do their homework. At the same time, I'm sure the companies made it sound much less intrusive than it actually would be. I doubt Sony cares if their competitors cds are ripped off, only the ones that they are paying to protect. But those companies probably did a lot of lying through omission.
I'm not sure what point you try to make.
DRM everything to hell? Or what??
Well if you went back up the thread you'd know my point; that Sony probaly shouldn't be making it easy to pirate games by offering a way to transfer games from UMD to memory stick for existing PSP owners. In other words, what they've already done. As I said some people WILL steal. So why should Sony make it easier to do so? If they want to include DRM, that's up to them. If they don't, its their call too. Its also their call to NOT give a utility or make it easy to transfer from UMD to memory stick.
You could as well advise to put everybody to jail because we all do minor crimes pretty much all the time. (Ripped CD? Yes. Don't try to hide it. RIAA says it's illegal.) And often this is trespassing of the laws we never heard of. And since you try to drive the discussion in the direction, let's start by putting you behind the bars first. You can start thanking me for setting you on the right track.
WTF dude? Sony NOT giving you a way to move your UMD games to memory stick is the same as putting people in jail? Get a fucking grip, and stop with strawmen.
As far as ripping CDs goes, that has been established to be legal. Not legal is breaking DRM controls to do so, but since redbook never included DRM, ripping them is fine.
If you have mindset of thief, then yes. Sorry to have misjudged you.
Ahh, more strawmen and red herrings. You failed basic logic courses, didn't you? The fact that people (even if its most) will buy digital media does not mean that everyone will. The fact that some people will steal regardless also doesn't lead to the conclusion that Sony shouldn't even attempt to throw up roadblocks to stop some of them.
P.S. This depends on publisher. Games published on Impulse by indies and StarDock themselves often have no copy protection of any sort. Not even serial number check.
Indeed. The reason is likely that they are desperate for sales. You protect something according to its value... if you're only going to sell 500 copies anyway, it doesn't make sense to invest in a 3rd party DRM solution (which you will have to pay for) or build your own (which costs you as well). A few larger publishers may do so to gain goodwill in their customer base, but that doesn't mean things aren't pirating.
My PS3 is fine after the latest update, as is my PSP. I haven't done the recent Wii update, but its been fine so far. A friend of mine is on his 4th 360. I also have a sony receiver, still working very nicely, an old 36" sony crt tv, more or less working nicely, and a new 52" bravia, which is a pretty awesome tv. Its about two months old, and still working perfectly (although out of the box it wanted to do a 10MB upgrade, which I let it do).
I might be fuzzy on the details, but wasn't the rooting thing the result of buying a 3rd party DRM solution? Yes, yes it was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Copy_Protection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaMax_CD-3
Sony didn't build the software, nor do I think the intent was to damage PCs. Most likely, they fell to marketing hype from these companies claiming their copy protection systems couldn't be broken.
Given that some PS3s might not even have a network connection, I fail to see how its mandatory. Maybe a few game in a few months will require that version of the firmware to play the game, but existing games will run just fine.
Ya, no updates needed to brick an xbox!
You have some sort of issue, which I can't figure out. What you want is exactly what the court found, yet you somehow claim that the findings are erroding your property rights.
They aren't, because property rights don't apply, because you're not dealing in property at all. You're dealing with content. And yes, you should be able to sell that content provided you keep no copy for yourself. But software sales / licensings are not a matter of property rights, because SOFTWARE IS NOT PROPERTY. Purchasing something doesn't make it property. You can purchase things OTHER than property, which is my point.
I never said you couldn't own the disc. But the OP was suggesting that because he can't own the CONTENT on that disc, that his property rights are being somehow erroded.
I never said anything about autodesk or their claim, I was only responding to the OP that seems to believe you can own an idea and his assertion that if he can't, somehow his property rights are being erroded.
It is nonsense, because software is not property any more than the concept of five is property. Acknowledging this does nothing to the fact that you can own property though; just becaue I can't own software doesn't mean I can own a bicycle.
As far as property rights being the foundation of the economy, I hate to break this to you but the service sector is by far the largest part of the economy now, to the tune of 80% of it.
Well, Apple with iTMS (and many other download services) proved already false the presumption that people would pirate anyway.
No, it proves that some people will pay. It doesn't prove that these same people aren't "sharing" their now DRM free songs on limewire or what-have you. And it certainly doesn't prove that pirates stopped pirating, which is unlikely.
Pissed customer is much likelier to pirate.
You mean like pissed customers are more likely to steal tangible items, all other factors being equal?
E.g. on Impulse you can get many games without any sort of copy protection. Many of them also available for free on BitTorrent. Despite that Impulse still manages sufficient sales. (And I'm a customer there.)
Which only proves that some people will pay. Other will steal, and some will help them.
Of course, the first game I clicked on (Far Cry 2) also has protection. So does CoD4. Opps and BattleField 2... looks like many of the games people would want to pay for are protected. Goblins 2 isn't though.
Thanks for the anecdote, but its not evidence of anything, it doesn't even back up your point.