Your latest argument makes no sense. I asked if "you [would] bother [with a PC] when a console could do all of the same things at the same price without the install and hardware hassles" and you respond with a no because consoles don't currently support keyboard and mouse as well as they could? You'll have to try harder than that. Besides, last I heard PS3 will allow keyboard and mouse for use in gaming (UT2007 specifically). Consoles are not exactly there yet, but from what I've seen they will be soon. PCs show no sign of improving their logistical shortcomings. When I can use the same USB controls that PC gamers are using to play my console games at HD resolutions, there will be no need to keep using the PC for gaming. And that's a good thing because I use the PC for enough other stuff as it is and I'll finally have no need for Windows.
"That's about the stupidest, riskiest strategy I've ever heard."
Then it's a good thing that you're just putting words in my mouth.
I advise you to move when you find work. In the meantime, you may have to set up some sort of temporary living arrangements where you may end up moving to while you are applying/interviewing. I'd recommend a campsite. You can stay at one for a few dollars a day, they usually provide shower and laundry facilities, and waking up every morning in a tent is great motivation for you to get out there and find work. Sell your home and move your family after you've managed to find something in that other city.
I never said I wouldn't. My point is that I shouldn't have to. I can see you're still clinging to your elitist attitude regarding PC gaming over console gaming but I warn you that the console is catching up. You can now get high res consoles. You can now use a standard USB keyboard and mouse in some console games and I imagine support for those devices will only increase. "If computer gaming cost $299 for the hardware on a five year upgrade cycle, but you still had to deal with the installs and updating drivers" would you bother when a console could do all of the same things at the same price without the install and hardware hassles?
"Your basic responsibility to society is to procreate."
I'm not beholden to society. I work within society to accomplish my goal. In the process, hopefully I've made my society a better place for it.
"Not all of us start out life with a trust fund. Nice that you started with a silver spoon in your mouth, but the rest of us didn't."
Yeah, you can spare me your class-envy bs. It would've been nice to have a trust fund or a silver spoon but I got something better than that when I was a kid: work ethic. I spent my childhood summers working construction with my father. It was a tough field to find work in but we always worked harder than the next guy so we could always find work, even if it meant 12 hour workdays or moving 2000 miles in order to find work elsewhere. When times were really rough I can remember when we were excited to be able to afford meat for dinner. I can also remember one time when my Mom saved up so she could afford to buy me fries and a soda at McDonalds for getting straight As on my report card. Just because I'm better at saving money than you are, don't assume I had some sort of easier route to getting that money.
"but it also depends to a large extent on geographic location and local economic climate"
Exactly. Somebody is always hiring but they're not always commuting distance from where you currently live. I've learned from experience that if you need work, sometimes the best option is to move to where the work is rather than sit around and wait for the work to come to you. Sometimes, it's a hope, skip, and a rather difficult cross-country move away from your extended family and friends, but at least in the end you can provide for your family.
"Good for you being able to avoid responsibility to the point where you can- I've got a mortgage and a family to pay for."
You don't have enough money saved up to be able to stay afloat financially while between jobs and you're claiming the GP is avoiding responsibility? It sound to me like you are the one who is avoiding responsibility. If you were fired tomorrow how would you feed your family or keep your home? Being financially independent enough to leave a job when you are unhappy with the working conditions is about the most responsible you can be.
"You're not worth every penney- you're worth the $2.50/hr your job can be done in India for."
Fine then:
The game can be as immersive as it wants to be. I still just want the ability to put the disc (or cartridge or whatever) in the slot, hit power, and have the game come up for me to play in a short amount of time. No reading system requirements. No lengthy installs. No worrying about if other games, processes, etc will screw up this game. No worrying about up to date drivers. Just turn on and play.
Neither the complexity of the game nor the immersion the game offers has anything to do with the simplicity of running a console game vs. its PC counterpart.
For someone who isn't into "simple" gaming, you sure have a hard time undertadning simple words. I commented on "simple consoles." There's a big difference. The game can be as complex as it wants to be. I just want the ability to put the disc (or cartridge or whatever) in the slot, hit power, and have the game come up for me to play in a short amount of time. No reading system requirements. No lengthy installs. No worrying about if other games, processes, etc will screw up this game. No worrying about up to date drivers. Just turn on and play.
"Hirai said different versions of gaming machines will likely be the norm from here on out, likening it to buying a computer today, where buyers can select from different configuration options to what best suits them."
There's a reason I play games on consoles nowadays. Consoles are simple. I really don't want to start having to study the game box to see if my console will play game X for that console.
Or the impression could come from everywhere I've seen or heard cover the event. Granted, Sony and MS get more press elsewhere than they are here, but Nintendo is getting most of the headlines. Besides, I thought the groupthink was that Zonk is an XBox fanboy?
The only feedback I've heard from E3 outside of nerdom so far is casual FM radio coverage during my morning commute. They were pretty harsh towards the PS3 because of its launch price. They were warning parents to start saving now if they planned on getting their kids a PS3 for Christmas and even went so far as to recommend talking their kids into the XBox or Nintendo instead since "they all have the same games on them anyways." They did take a swipe at Nintendo over the console name but spent a little time talking about the new controller. To be fair though, these are the same radio DJs who shill for all things Fox. There may be some sort of incentive I am not aware of for them to bash Sony's system.
Is it just me or has this year's E3 become the Nintendo Entertainment Expo (NE2)? Seems like Nintendo is the only console company that will come out of this with more steam than they came in with. Whatever they lost by revealing their console's silly name has been nmore than made up for.
I can't find specific games from a source I trust. However, here is a general rundown of the issue as part of a speech given to the American Law Institute and American Bar Association by Carl Shapiro from the US Department of Justice in 1996:
"As a condition for an independently-developed game to be allowed to play on Nintendo machines, Nintendo required that the game not appear on the rival systems sold by Atari and Sega for a two-year period.
Without delving into the details of that case (and Nintendo certainly offered a number of justifications for this practice), or laying out the steps in the economic analysis of exclusive dealing, let me simply point out how the network elements in the video game industry affect the antitrust analysis of Nintendo's exclusive dealing provision with game developers: Once Nintendo had a large installed base, it became very costly for developers of hit games to forsake the installed base of Nintendo users in order to make their games available on competing systems. As a result, Nintendo's exclusivity requirement reduced the attractiveness of the Atari and Sega systems, and made it all the more likely that the market would tip entirely towards Nintendo. At some point, consumer expectations regarding the decline of Atari and Sega (in that generation of systems) became self-fulfilling. In other words, exclusive dealing here affects not only the supply of inputs (hit games), but also consumer expectations, to the benefit of the market leader."
So it appears that all third party games released in the time period involved would have been affected.
And to be fair, from what I have read it seems that Nintendo changed its monopolistic practices to avoid DoJ prosecution so technically they were not "convicted monopolists" though they did engage in monopolistic practices.
Your post from there on out lost me for a minute until I realized that you weren't talking about Nintendo. MS and Nintendo are both convicted monopolists.
IMHO, what Nintendo did was far worse from a video gaming perspective than packaging a Web broser into an OS or even taking losses to sell more hardware. Nintendo used monopolistic practices to keep game companies from publishing their games on other platforms. Funny how Nintendo's marketshare has steadily declined ever since they stopped their monopolistic practices. And before anyone jumps all over me as some sort of other-company fanboy, I'm a proud owner of every Nintendo console except for the N64 and DS (and that includes Virtual Boy). The only reason I skipped the N64 is that my roommate at the time had one and I wanted to pick up the Sega Saturn so I could get Saturn Bomberman since N64's Bomberman left a lot to be desired.
"If Cox were to offer digital cable service with a TiVo branded DVR for about the same price as you are currently paying for satellite service each month, how likely would you be to switch from satellite TV to Cox cable that featured this TiVo branded DVR service?" (emphasis mine)
The real story here isn't that Cox may slap the Tivo name on their DVRs. It's that they may be thinking about dropping their hideously high prices. For Cox to offer what I used to pay a month for satellite plus the cost of Tivo they'd have to come down about $10 - $15 per month.
The successor to the "Core 2 Duo" will be the "Core 2 Duo: Championship Edition." Alas, folks will illegally mod the chip to the point that Intel releases its own "Core 2 Duo Turbo Hyper Fighting" modified chip to combat such modifications. Then they'll release "Super Core 2 Duo" but it'll bomb for the most part and it's home version will nearly bankrupt the company.
Horsepower isn't everything. My marine mechanic uses a 60HP tractor to move boats around on his lot. There's also the tranmission, rear end, and wheel base to worry about. The wheelbase should be adequate for reasonable towing but I imagine that rear end is not up to snuff. The CVT tranny should also be adequate but I don't know that for sure since I have yet to see one in a vehicle with any significant tow rating. This argument is all academic anyways though. Ford will not bless the Escape Hybrid for towing right now which means that any automobile accident I get into while towing with that vehicle will not be covered by my automobile insurance.
I wonder at what point we're polluting more by plugging an electric sports car in and sucking energy from the power plant than we are just filling up our reasonably fuel efficient gasoline vehicles? It would be sweet though to have an electric that races comparably with any other sports car.
Also, while I would love to have an electric or hybrid car, such vehicles are currently ignoring tow capacity despite an electric motor's distinct advantage at producing low end torque. I'd love to have an electric I can use to tow the boat. And yes I realize that I'd be using an electric to tow a gas guzzler but the boat only goes out on weekends. I drive my car every day.
I went to see Edsger Dijkstra speak at our University back in 2000. He was telling us how he finally broke down and bought his first PC for email after his family had been pestering him about staying in touch with them. He bought a Mac. I know that's anecdotal evidence but you could lump Dijkstra in with a bunch of cavemen and their average technical knowledge would surpass the average x86/Windows user's technical knowledge. So as much as I may hate it, the author's point is valid though it's probably a bunch of not too tech saavy folks with some serious outliers thrown in to tip the scales.
Turns out what I saw wan't the FASA version. I actually had my hands on a game called "Time Lord" published by Virgin Books in 1991. Here's an about blurb http://www.geocities.com/sege1701/TimeLord/about.h tm that I found after looking it up. Apparently, it was mis-marketed as a resource instead of an RPG which is why I found it amongst the Who novels.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm a little disappointed. I expected at least a little bit of duct tape involved based on your description.
Your latest argument makes no sense. I asked if "you [would] bother [with a PC] when a console could do all of the same things at the same price without the install and hardware hassles" and you respond with a no because consoles don't currently support keyboard and mouse as well as they could? You'll have to try harder than that. Besides, last I heard PS3 will allow keyboard and mouse for use in gaming (UT2007 specifically). Consoles are not exactly there yet, but from what I've seen they will be soon. PCs show no sign of improving their logistical shortcomings. When I can use the same USB controls that PC gamers are using to play my console games at HD resolutions, there will be no need to keep using the PC for gaming. And that's a good thing because I use the PC for enough other stuff as it is and I'll finally have no need for Windows.
"That's about the stupidest, riskiest strategy I've ever heard."
Then it's a good thing that you're just putting words in my mouth.
I advise you to move when you find work. In the meantime, you may have to set up some sort of temporary living arrangements where you may end up moving to while you are applying/interviewing. I'd recommend a campsite. You can stay at one for a few dollars a day, they usually provide shower and laundry facilities, and waking up every morning in a tent is great motivation for you to get out there and find work. Sell your home and move your family after you've managed to find something in that other city.
I never said I wouldn't. My point is that I shouldn't have to. I can see you're still clinging to your elitist attitude regarding PC gaming over console gaming but I warn you that the console is catching up. You can now get high res consoles. You can now use a standard USB keyboard and mouse in some console games and I imagine support for those devices will only increase. "If computer gaming cost $299 for the hardware on a five year upgrade cycle, but you still had to deal with the installs and updating drivers" would you bother when a console could do all of the same things at the same price without the install and hardware hassles?
"Your basic responsibility to society is to procreate."
I'm not beholden to society. I work within society to accomplish my goal. In the process, hopefully I've made my society a better place for it.
"Not all of us start out life with a trust fund. Nice that you started with a silver spoon in your mouth, but the rest of us didn't."
Yeah, you can spare me your class-envy bs. It would've been nice to have a trust fund or a silver spoon but I got something better than that when I was a kid: work ethic. I spent my childhood summers working construction with my father. It was a tough field to find work in but we always worked harder than the next guy so we could always find work, even if it meant 12 hour workdays or moving 2000 miles in order to find work elsewhere. When times were really rough I can remember when we were excited to be able to afford meat for dinner. I can also remember one time when my Mom saved up so she could afford to buy me fries and a soda at McDonalds for getting straight As on my report card. Just because I'm better at saving money than you are, don't assume I had some sort of easier route to getting that money.
"but it also depends to a large extent on geographic location and local economic climate"
Exactly. Somebody is always hiring but they're not always commuting distance from where you currently live. I've learned from experience that if you need work, sometimes the best option is to move to where the work is rather than sit around and wait for the work to come to you. Sometimes, it's a hope, skip, and a rather difficult cross-country move away from your extended family and friends, but at least in the end you can provide for your family.
"Good for you being able to avoid responsibility to the point where you can- I've got a mortgage and a family to pay for."
You don't have enough money saved up to be able to stay afloat financially while between jobs and you're claiming the GP is avoiding responsibility? It sound to me like you are the one who is avoiding responsibility. If you were fired tomorrow how would you feed your family or keep your home? Being financially independent enough to leave a job when you are unhappy with the working conditions is about the most responsible you can be.
"You're not worth every penney- you're worth the $2.50/hr your job can be done in India for."
I'm worth what my employer pays me.
Fine then:
The game can be as immersive as it wants to be. I still just want the ability to put the disc (or cartridge or whatever) in the slot, hit power, and have the game come up for me to play in a short amount of time. No reading system requirements. No lengthy installs. No worrying about if other games, processes, etc will screw up this game. No worrying about up to date drivers. Just turn on and play.
Neither the complexity of the game nor the immersion the game offers has anything to do with the simplicity of running a console game vs. its PC counterpart.
You have the ring, and I see your Wii is as big as mine. Let's see how well you handle it.
"Some of us just aren't into "simple" gaming."
For someone who isn't into "simple" gaming, you sure have a hard time undertadning simple words. I commented on "simple consoles." There's a big difference. The game can be as complex as it wants to be. I just want the ability to put the disc (or cartridge or whatever) in the slot, hit power, and have the game come up for me to play in a short amount of time. No reading system requirements. No lengthy installs. No worrying about if other games, processes, etc will screw up this game. No worrying about up to date drivers. Just turn on and play.
"Hirai said different versions of gaming machines will likely be the norm from here on out, likening it to buying a computer today, where buyers can select from different configuration options to what best suits them."
There's a reason I play games on consoles nowadays. Consoles are simple. I really don't want to start having to study the game box to see if my console will play game X for that console.
Or the impression could come from everywhere I've seen or heard cover the event. Granted, Sony and MS get more press elsewhere than they are here, but Nintendo is getting most of the headlines. Besides, I thought the groupthink was that Zonk is an XBox fanboy?
The only feedback I've heard from E3 outside of nerdom so far is casual FM radio coverage during my morning commute. They were pretty harsh towards the PS3 because of its launch price. They were warning parents to start saving now if they planned on getting their kids a PS3 for Christmas and even went so far as to recommend talking their kids into the XBox or Nintendo instead since "they all have the same games on them anyways." They did take a swipe at Nintendo over the console name but spent a little time talking about the new controller. To be fair though, these are the same radio DJs who shill for all things Fox. There may be some sort of incentive I am not aware of for them to bash Sony's system.
Since we're talking pairs anyways, what about the Bad Dudes?
"I'm Bad!"
Is it just me or has this year's E3 become the Nintendo Entertainment Expo (NE2)? Seems like Nintendo is the only console company that will come out of this with more steam than they came in with. Whatever they lost by revealing their console's silly name has been nmore than made up for.
No, but Gamepro had the same offer for Dragon Warrior II. I did go for that one.
I can't find specific games from a source I trust. However, here is a general rundown of the issue as part of a speech given to the American Law Institute and American Bar Association by Carl Shapiro from the US Department of Justice in 1996:
"As a condition for an independently-developed game to be allowed to play on Nintendo machines, Nintendo required that the game not appear on the rival systems sold by Atari and Sega for a two-year period.
Without delving into the details of that case (and Nintendo certainly offered a number of justifications for this practice), or laying out the steps in the economic analysis of exclusive dealing, let me simply point out how the network elements in the video game industry affect the antitrust analysis of Nintendo's exclusive dealing provision with game developers: Once Nintendo had a large installed base, it became very costly for developers of hit games to forsake the installed base of Nintendo users in order to make their games available on competing systems. As a result, Nintendo's exclusivity requirement reduced the attractiveness of the Atari and Sega systems, and made it all the more likely that the market would tip entirely towards Nintendo. At some point, consumer expectations regarding the decline of Atari and Sega (in that generation of systems) became self-fulfilling. In other words, exclusive dealing here affects not only the supply of inputs (hit games), but also consumer expectations, to the benefit of the market leader."
So it appears that all third party games released in the time period involved would have been affected.
The DOJ source link WARNING. It's a PDF. Check out page 20 (labelled as 19).
And to be fair, from what I have read it seems that Nintendo changed its monopolistic practices to avoid DoJ prosecution so technically they were not "convicted monopolists" though they did engage in monopolistic practices.
"So we basicly have a convicted monopolist..."
Your post from there on out lost me for a minute until I realized that you weren't talking about Nintendo. MS and Nintendo are both convicted monopolists.
IMHO, what Nintendo did was far worse from a video gaming perspective than packaging a Web broser into an OS or even taking losses to sell more hardware. Nintendo used monopolistic practices to keep game companies from publishing their games on other platforms. Funny how Nintendo's marketshare has steadily declined ever since they stopped their monopolistic practices. And before anyone jumps all over me as some sort of other-company fanboy, I'm a proud owner of every Nintendo console except for the N64 and DS (and that includes Virtual Boy). The only reason I skipped the N64 is that my roommate at the time had one and I wanted to pick up the Sega Saturn so I could get Saturn Bomberman since N64's Bomberman left a lot to be desired.
"If Cox were to offer digital cable service with a TiVo branded DVR for about the same price as you are currently paying for satellite service each month, how likely would you be to switch from satellite TV to Cox cable that featured this TiVo branded DVR service?" (emphasis mine)
The real story here isn't that Cox may slap the Tivo name on their DVRs. It's that they may be thinking about dropping their hideously high prices. For Cox to offer what I used to pay a month for satellite plus the cost of Tivo they'd have to come down about $10 - $15 per month.
"the industry needs a 3rd handheld as much as they needed a third system, not at all."
Yeah really. There's already the GBA and the DS.
The successor to the "Core 2 Duo" will be the "Core 2 Duo: Championship Edition." Alas, folks will illegally mod the chip to the point that Intel releases its own "Core 2 Duo Turbo Hyper Fighting" modified chip to combat such modifications. Then they'll release "Super Core 2 Duo" but it'll bomb for the most part and it's home version will nearly bankrupt the company.
Horsepower isn't everything. My marine mechanic uses a 60HP tractor to move boats around on his lot. There's also the tranmission, rear end, and wheel base to worry about. The wheelbase should be adequate for reasonable towing but I imagine that rear end is not up to snuff. The CVT tranny should also be adequate but I don't know that for sure since I have yet to see one in a vehicle with any significant tow rating. This argument is all academic anyways though. Ford will not bless the Escape Hybrid for towing right now which means that any automobile accident I get into while towing with that vehicle will not be covered by my automobile insurance.
I wonder at what point we're polluting more by plugging an electric sports car in and sucking energy from the power plant than we are just filling up our reasonably fuel efficient gasoline vehicles? It would be sweet though to have an electric that races comparably with any other sports car.
Also, while I would love to have an electric or hybrid car, such vehicles are currently ignoring tow capacity despite an electric motor's distinct advantage at producing low end torque. I'd love to have an electric I can use to tow the boat. And yes I realize that I'd be using an electric to tow a gas guzzler but the boat only goes out on weekends. I drive my car every day.
I went to see Edsger Dijkstra speak at our University back in 2000. He was telling us how he finally broke down and bought his first PC for email after his family had been pestering him about staying in touch with them. He bought a Mac. I know that's anecdotal evidence but you could lump Dijkstra in with a bunch of cavemen and their average technical knowledge would surpass the average x86/Windows user's technical knowledge. So as much as I may hate it, the author's point is valid though it's probably a bunch of not too tech saavy folks with some serious outliers thrown in to tip the scales.
Turns out what I saw wan't the FASA version. I actually had my hands on a game called "Time Lord" published by Virgin Books in 1991. Here's an about blurb http://www.geocities.com/sege1701/TimeLord/about.h tm that I found after looking it up. Apparently, it was mis-marketed as a resource instead of an RPG which is why I found it amongst the Who novels.