Cox May replace its own DVRs with TiVos

Controlio writes "According to a posting by user BrettStah on the TiVo Community Forums, Cox Cable is currently circulating a survey to gauge customer's interest in TiVo services. From the survey, 'While Cox currently offers its own DVR service, the Cox DVR may soon be powered by TiVo, and include the features that TiVo owners have come to expect. If Cox were to offer digital cable service with a TiVo branded DVR for about the same price as you are currently paying for satellite service each month, how likely would you be to switch from satellite TV to Cox cable that featured this TiVo branded DVR service?'"

Comments

Other interesting, Cox related news:

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi folks. Alan Cox here again, this time to address a serious issue that's come up recently in the Linux world.

Frankly, Linux development has become impossible of late -- I spend far too much of my time and energy playing catch-up with Linus and his Lord-of-the-Flies approach to patching the Linux kernel. His criteria are based on what's shiny and novel rather than what's stable and needed. He's worse than a five-year-old in front of an Xbox. Such reckless practices threaten not only kernel stability and security but Linux mindshare as well. If we wanted to use unchecked code, we'd all be booting Windows.

For instance, just last week Linus and I both received a patch for SMP from Eric Raymond. My inclination was to fire up Pico and read through the code, gleaning what I could from comments and code-tracing, and then apply the patch to my test system and run stability tests. Eric isn't known for his programming prowess (though he'd have you think otherwise) and I'm not one to toy with such low-level chunks of the kernel. But while I was putting the new code through its paces, Linus had other ideas.

Before I could email Linus my first impression of Eric's patch, I received an instant message in ALL CAPS shouting about how he'd just committed the new code. I was incredulous, to say the least. There was no way he had time to manually parse through 384k of spaghetti code. Eric had no doubt been at the Jäger again and had made a grievous typo, having typed man(love) instead of main(). Had Linus taken the proper steps for integrating new kernel code, he would have caught that glaring error.

I am sick of cleaning up after Eric, but with Linus there is just no excuse.

Things weren't always like this. Linus used to take his time working on Linux, but when Linux started getting a lot of press coverage, he started getting sloppy. I understand the hectic schedule he had to endure with the interviews and press. But he let the fame go to his head at the expense of Linux kernel health. Going to work for TransMeta didn't help and moving up and down the West Coast only worsened the situation. Ironically, things haven't improved since he went to work for OSDL either.

After studying the GPL, conferencing with Linux vendors, and much soul-searching, I feel there's only one way improve this situation. Therefore, as of today, I am forking the Linux kernel. I will call it simply Cox, keeping with the x nomenclature common to Unix. And to ensure that hackers all over the world can have a stable operating system, I will be the head of Cox. I hope you, gentle reader, will support me in this ambitious new project to get Cox into users' hands as soon as possible.

The primary focus of Cox will be stability. Compared to Linux, Cox will be rock-hard. Another goal is security, and to that end Cox will fill as many holes as possible, and any bugs or viruses in Cox will be dealt with swiftly. Cox will also not leak nearly as badly as Linux does with its memory. Cox will also strain to avoid the hairy mess of incompatibilities Linux is infamous for. The net result of these improvements is that users will reach for Cox just as robust as when it first went up. Cox will have longer uptimes than Linux.

In all honesty, Cox will likely split the Linux community in half. But the sacrifice will be worth it. Users will wonder what they ever did before they went with Cox. Linus will one day come face-to-face with Cox and realize what he has been missing all these years. After speaking with Richard Stallman, another huge fan of Cox, I agreed to keep the kernel under the GPL. He assured me that the GPL was the best way to disseminate Cox. Richard seemed quite eager to install Cox in his back-end!

I hope the latent interest in Cox among Linux developers will soon become a driving obsession.

Thank you.

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[ccarson]

I had heard a long time ago that Comcast was also looking into using Tivo. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm currently using Comcast's DVR. After being a long time user, not to mention hacker, of the Tivo, I can't stand my current Comcast DVR. Tivo is simply the best when it comes to menu interactivity and features. I miss my Tivo...

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[scatters]

The last I heard is that it was due out this past April. It appears to be late :) But, I'm totally with you. The Comcast POS is slow, unreliable with an appalling UI. I've had 3 of them fail now, and its a crap-shoot as to whether it will actually record the entire show, and even if it does, whether the audio will consist of white noise.

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[BenHoltz]

Wow thats quite a story... do you use Cox to do all your dirty work too?

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[z00lander]

Anonymous Coward? Doesn't seem like a legit post to me. I bet you Anonymous Coward would be "very eager to install Cox in his back end" too.

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[Cal Paterson]

Not legitimate?!?! How DARE you! This is ALL true.

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[lymond01]

I've been using the DVR from Comcast for about 9 months now to record normal and HD channels. I don't have Tivo to compare to, but I will say that the recordings (and there are alot of them) are 100% every time. No white noise or lost signals, etc. The one gotcha is that it seems that if the system starts recording with it "off" (not powered down though), it sets it to mute. And so far, I haven't figured out a way to remove the mute without stopping the recording, turning it off again, then continuing the recording.

But the signal is always whatever is on the TV: if HD is goofy (which does happen - pixellation, etc), then the DVR recording will be goofy. I guess mileage is varying (how's your cooling?)

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[Anonymous Coward]

what in the heck does THAT have to do with TIVO? Nothing.
I would not 'switch' to anything that was going to foist a TIVO box on me. They are
nothing but DRM boxes and they all do not have any hard copy. Give he hard copy or give my death! No sneaky bastards cummin in the night to delete my hard saved stuff for me! No sirrreeee Bob I tell ya!

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[JPriest]

I am pretty sure RMS would first need to uninstall the previous Cox from his backend prior to installing your new, more hardened version.

Re:Other interesting, Cox related news:

[rdoger6424]

Has anyone tried the new "Viagra" and "Cialis" forks of the "Sidenafil Citrate" patch (The patch is used to fix reliability and system uptime issues of earlier cox versions)?

I would switch.

[yagu]

It's not entirely fair to offer an opinion, I have never seen or used the Cox PVR. My experience has been there are few pretenders to the throne that even come close to Tivo's quality of service.

Tivo pioneered the user experience for PVR viewing, and from their first offering (which I purchased and actually returned -- it was not quite ready for prime time then) which was very good they have steadily improved their already leading product.

For those who may care, here is one of my earlier posts on tivo features vs Comcast.

If I had the option and was a Cox subscriber, not only would I ask for the swap for similar pricing, I'd be happy to pay a premium. Tivo is that good, and what I've seen of other offerings is that bad! (I recently visited neighbors who had their new Dish PVR. While I'd wished a Tivo for them, I was happy for their new window into PVR viewing. I tried to walk them through the simplest setups: record one show, pause live TV, etc., but even I found the interface clunky, intrusive, inconsistent, and obfuscated. It bordered on unusable. I was able to figure it out, but it was a RPITA to use. And, before anyone points out I had to "learn" how to use the tivo, too, that really wasn't true. The litmus test for me for entertainment gadgets is that I be able to use it out-of-the-box with no instruction manual reading. Tivo is usable from the get-go.)

If I lived in a region where I had some OTHER cable service, and heard Cox was offering PVR with Tivo, I'd switch.

Good luck, Tivo...

Re:I would switch.

[Tongo]

I haven't used any other PVC device, but I was really disappointed by Tivo. My main beef is that the fricking UI is slow as hell. I love pressing a button and waiting a second or so before it does anything. The screen refresh sucks ass too. The other problem I have is the lack of an autotune feature w/out record. It's not that big of a deal, but I hate to waste the space if I don't need to record it (I know my lazy ass will be there when the show comes on).

Besides those two gripes, the service is great. It didn't "change the way I watch TV", but it's a helluva lot easier than programming the VCR.

Re:I would switch.

[Anonymous Coward]

the bigger question...
will it be Adult-Only rated?

Re:I would switch.

[bill_kress]

I understand how you feel, it sucks to move to an inferior model.

I've had Ultimate TV for a few years now and I really dread losing it. Everyone I know who has had UTV boxes holds on to them for dear life--and I haven't heard those who have had to switch away bragging happily about their new systems.

Re:I would switch.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm. I've not used Tivo and only recently got the cox dvr.

My 9yo daughter can record, replay and watch tv with significant aplomb. Hard to me imagine how Tivo would be much better, but maybe I have a weak imagination.

Re:I would switch.

[lucabrasi999]

My experience has been there are few pretenders to the throne that even come close to Tivo's quality of service.

My experience includes both DirecTV's Tivo Box and Dish Network's DVR. And, in the end, it is a tie. Both services are good. Both have nice features (including the ability to skip ahead 30 seconds and the ability to jump ahead in five or ten minute increments). Both record what I want, when I want. The Dish box has a bigger hard drive, but that is probably because it is a new box. And, the Dish box has the ability to add an extra few minutes of recording to a show, if I desire (for those of us that LOVE the ABC show Lost, you know that ABC has a bad habit of extending the show past 10pm ET -- I can't tell you how many times I missed the last two minutes of episodes because my Tivo stopped recording at 10pm).

So, in the end, to me the issue is not whether or not Cox is offering Tivo. The DVR v. Tivo battle is a draw. The issue is do I want to leave Satellite TV heaven and return to cable TV hell? Do I want to pay more for lower levels of customer service? And the answer is a resounding "No!".

Satellite TV is still head and shoulders above cable TV. And, it is cheaper.

Re:I would switch.

[computechnica]

I'd switch if the lazy bastards would run cable lines out to the country where I live. That would mean I could get a cable broadband connection instead of having my house look like a Space Monitoring station with Dish500 and Wildblue dish's on my roof.
I have city gas and water but can't get DSL(SBC) or Cable(COX).

Re:I would switch.

[b0r1s]

Agreed. We have the HD-DRV from Cox, and I have zero complaints. Easy, fast, plenty of drive space. I see no reason to change.

Re:I would switch.

[eln]

And, the Dish box has the ability to add an extra few minutes of recording to a show

I have DirecTV's TiVo box, and it has the exact same feature. You can add anywhere from 1 minute to 3 hours on to the end of a show, which is awesome for recording sporting events that may go into overtime.

TiVo is great. The only complaint I have is that the response times are very very slow. The slowness of the channel guide is particularly maddening, although the ability to filter out all the shopping, PPV, and non-subscribed channels is a huge plus for me. I hated having to page through tons of channels I didn't receive on my cable system just to see what was on. But then, my cable company was CableONE, so that was the least of my complaints with them.

Re:I would switch.

[hackstraw]

have never seen or used the Cox PVR. My experience has been there are few pretenders to the throne that even come close to Tivo's quality of service.

I've never used a Tivo.

I'm guessing that they are going for brand recognition. I've had Cox HD-DVR service, and I loved it. My only real beef was that it would store multiple episodes by the same title on the box when you told it to record all of the shows and repeats. There was not an option like "I really, only need one copy of this".

I'm a picky SOB, and to have that as my only beef is pretty damn good. The ease of use was there. Any of my friends could work it w/o any coaching by me. Recording things was so easy, it was ridiculous. I had an 80gig model and always had stuff to watch.

I read and do internet now. Cheaper and easier on my brain. I'm not religious about this, and I'll go back to cable/satellite or something in the future.

I will say that having a DVR makes watching TV at someone else's house kinda suck. What do you mean you have to watch the ads? What do you mean you don't have the latest South Park?

If you watch TV, a DVR is highly recommended.

Re:I would switch.

[nocaster]

My 6 year old boy could use our TiVo before he could read. The only thing he was not able to do before he learned to read was set up season passes. I never showed him how to do anything with it because it's just so easy to use.

Re:I would switch.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 3 (well 4 now) year old daughter that can navigate Tivo. Not too bad but I havn't showed her how to setup up Favorite Catogries yet (if anyone dosn't now, that is the most advanced feature of tivo - I said advanced not best!).

Re:I would switch.

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess is that they are trying not to get sued now that Tivo has set some precendent.

Re:I would switch.

[GigsVT]

There was not an option like "I really, only need one copy of this".

Tivo does the same thing. If you delete an episode and they show the same one the next day, it records it again.

I have no clue why, but our Tivo keeps recording "Dead by Sunset". It doesn't match any wishlist, it just keeps recording it over and over and over and over in the suggestions.

We've told it thumbs down, but it doesn't seem to care.

Re:I would switch.

[Secrity]

Cox currently uses a Scientific Atlanta DVR/digital decoder combo. I have a TiVo and a friend who HAD a Cox provided DVR - the Cox provided DVR is a clunky POS compared to a TiVo. A problem with the Cox DVR is that you have to have digital service which I don't find to be worthwhile. BTW, Cox in my area provides excellent analog extended basic cable and broadband service.

Re:I would switch.

[jargoone]

If you delete an episode and they show the same one the next day, it records it again.

Not if it knows better. This will happen when a show doesn't give an episode title, which is an issue with the guide data, not the TiVo software. Look at the description, and you'll see something generic. It plays it safe and records in this case, which I think is the right thing to do.

Re:I would switch.

[DDLKermit007]

Give it three thumbs down and if it still keeps getting into your suggestions and it annoys you that much just turn off the suggestions. My Tivo continualy records crap I so don't like (I have eclectic tastes) and stuff I've watched allready. No need for suggestions there. A DVR is so you can watch TV and then walk away. Not channelsurf watch more (suggestions), but thats how I see it.

Re:I would switch.

[Zondar]

Being able to say "Record all CSI:Miami" instead of "Record channel 12 from 8:00 to 8:59pm every Thursday". That way when they move it to Monday nights, I don't know and don't care. When another channel picks up the reruns, it's a bonus. I don't worry about timeslots... all I see are "shows". CSI:Miami is CSI:Miami no matter what network or channel is hosting it.

Having my Tivo learn what types of shows, actors, and even directors I like and having it record "Suggestions" on spare device space, things that other people who like the same types of things that I do also liked. For example, let's say I let the Tivo know I like Kill Bill volume 1 and 2 and Dawn of the Dead... it might also record Pulp Fiction. If I select Star Trek (original) and Star Trek:TNG, there's a good chance ST:Voyager will show up in suggestions.

Those are the two things that come to mind first.

Re:I would switch.

[gEvil (beta)]

Just curious, do you have your DTiVo hooked up to a phone line? If so, it should've grabbed an update a while ago that speeds up the interface a whole lot. Mine was unbearable when it was first installed, but after a few days it was great. The guide interface is actually faster than the old straight DirecTV box that I used to have.

Re:I would switch.

[Zondar]

I think the default "don't record the same item unless explicitly told to" timer is 30 days.

Re:I would switch.

[milkman_matt]

I've used the Cox DVR -- In my opinion, it sucks, it's godawful and I used it for maybe a week, never even got around to watching anything it recorded, and it 'crashed' for lack of a better word and said I had to call CS to get it turned back on because "Your set top box is not authorized to use this service" or something, couldn't even -watch- tv... that thing was a piece of trash compared to a TiVo, which I purchased shortly after. Only problem with the cable TiVos is that you need the TiVo, AND the cable box, and you use the IR dongles to manipulate the cable box... I know there's not really any other way, but that kinda blows. I miss my DirecTiVo, dual tuners, just plug 'em in and you're good to go, no questions.

If the cable companies would start issuing decoder cards (isn't that what they are?) that you could slide into your TiVo to eliminate the need for a set top cable box as well, they'd probably save money by not having to provide all of these boxes and just giving people cards, as well as making things a lot more convenient for us.

All that aside, if Cox offers a TiVo based box, I very well may sell my TiVo and get one of theirs, assuming it's the same thing.

Re:I would switch.

[eln]

I only hook it up to the phone line when it complains that it hasn't contacted the service in a while (usually once every couple of weeks). I'll hook it up tonight and see if I get that update.

Re:I would switch.

[Secrity]

I have a TiVo with Cox analog extended basic and I don't use a decoder box. On our system you only need a cable box if you have a digital dcoder.

Re:I would switch.

[milkman_matt]

I have a TiVo with Cox analog extended basic and I don't use a decoder box. On our system you only need a cable box if you have a digital dcoder.

Hmm... yeah I have HBO so I need the box I think... Maybe I can run it without the box if I just get extended basic... well, we'll find out once the Sopranos season is over, thanks for the tip!

Re:I would switch.

[trix7117]

I've used both a Tivo and a Cox DVR in the past, and am currently using Time Warner's offering (same hardware as Cox, different software) and a MythTV box. I loved Tivo (it was my roommate's box, so I lost it when I moved out), but I wanted dual-tuners and HD more than I wanted the Tivo interface (and didn't want to go to sattelite). I would have to say that the Time Warner software is much better than the Cox software, but it's been about a year since I moved and switched to TW and the Cox software has probably improved quite a bit since then. All that being said, if I was offered the option to trade in either the Cox or TW DVR for a Tivo that supported dual-tuners and HD, I would do it immediately. I also have experience with the older Dish DVRs (my mom uses one), and I would pay Cox to get rid of that monstrosity in exchange for a Tivo. The problem is getting people who have only ever tried their current DVR to switch. My mom loves her Dish DVR even though it is nothing more than a glorified VCR (she can't say record "ShowX" at anytime, she can only do 8-9 Wed Ch. 7), and until she tried out Tivo she wouldn't know what she was missing.

Re:I would switch.

[Anonymous Coward]

...Which country do you live in?

Re:I would switch.

[Lisana]

I would be extremely happy if they actually switched to TiVo for their DVRs. We have had two TiVos, and love them. The interface and 'smartness' of the Cox DVR software leaves a whole lot to be desired. I think the only reason we deal with the stupid HD receiver/DVR is because it does HD and we bought ourselves a new HD television after we moved into this apartment and could no longer get DirecTV.

Re:I would switch.

[gEvil (beta)]

There's info about it here. You should've received it by now, although there is a list of models that couldn't/didn't get the update.

Re:I would switch.

[tomcres]

Speed isn't everything. I used to use TiVo before I got DISH. Now I have the DISH DVR. I hadn't realized how awful it was and I wanted two tuners in the living room, so I moved the TiVo into my son's room since he has a simple DISH 321 receiver.

The DISH DVR is much more responsive than the TiVo, and the navigation in some places is quicker, but overall, it is nothing like the TiVo experience. The best thing I liked about TiVo was its ability to rate shows and record recommendations. The Season Pass feature also worked a lot better. DISH DVR only cares whether something is flagged as a repeat or not (regardless of whether it's recorded it before), whereas Season Pass is driven by whether or not TiVo recorded that episode in the past. Also, the TiVo is networkable. I can download shows to my computer and watch them on my laptop or burn them to DVD. I do not have that option with the DISH DVR (although I may end up getting one of the Archos Pocket DISH devices).

I really do miss the TiVo and find the DISH DVR to be a poor substitute, but it was a sacrifice I had to make in order to have a dual tuner that works in two rooms with my DISH service. You can bet that if DISH offered a TiVo-compatible solution, I'd get it, even if it cost more.

Re:I would switch.

[tomcres]

...and it's about the only place to get international programming. We have the Latino Bonus Pack (Spanish), RTPi/Record/Globo (Portuguese), and RAI (Italian). I can only get two Spanish channels, part-time RAI, and no Portuguese on cable. Our cable company doesn't even carry EWTN (largely because our own diocese has their own television station). And yet they charge more for fewer channels. Cablevision has had a monopoly for so long that they feel they can charge whatever they like and offer very little for the money. Especially since it is near impossible to receive anything over-the-air here (eastern Long Island, New York).

(In the interest of full disclosure, my sister works for Cablevision.)

Re:I would switch.

[Bloke down the pub]

Having my Tivo learn what types of shows, actors, and even directors I like and having it record "Suggestions" on spare device space, things that other people who like the same types of things that I do also liked.

Fine, as long as it doesn't think you're a gay Korean Nazi

Re:I would switch.

[GigsVT]

Hah that reminds me of the time I put in a season pass for IFC short film showcase.

It recorded the same thing 2-3 times a day until I turned it off.

Do these networks just not care about guide data?

Re:I would switch.

[ivan256]

Satellite TV is still head and shoulders above cable TV. And, it is cheaper.

The key is that is't cheaper. It really doesn't have anything else going for it one way or the other. When you plug your TiVO in, the only difference between cable and sattelite is the bill... And maybe that cable goes out a little more frequently than sattelite.

If the price was the same, I'd pick the service with the TiVO instead of the generic DVR. I don't want any company that has contractual ties to the content providers to control the software on my set top box.

The Dish box has a bigger hard drive

But the TiVO's hard drive is upgradeable.

the Dish box has the ability to add an extra few minutes of recording to a show, if I desire

The Tivo will do the same if you use season passes instead of specifiying every show to record manually. It allows up to three additional minutes at both the beginning and the end of a scheduled program. If you're not using Season Passes, why bother with a TiVO?

Both record what I want, when I want.

You have a 'when' that you want? Why do you even know when Lost is on and what network shows it? Your DVR should be protecting you from needing to know that.

Re:I would switch.

[lucabrasi999]

The key is that is't cheaper. It really doesn't have anything else going for it one way or the other

In my experience, the customer service at my old cable company was below the level I used to get at DirecTV and is also below the level I now get with Dish. And, let us assume that customer service is a 'subjective' ratinge (what is acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me). Even then, the price differential (combined with the improved reception of a Sat Dish) is large enough to be a deal killer. I can get free Local HD with my over-the-air antenna using DISH. Last time I checked Comcast, I had to pay to recieve Network HD.

If the price was the same, I'd pick the service with the TiVO instead of the generic DVR. I don't want any company that has contractual ties to the content providers to control the software on my set top box.

This makes no sense on two levels. First of all, the price is NOT the same (see above). Second of all, Tivo has a contract with DirecTV; and DirecTV is owned by Rupert Murdoch, who owns Fox. In many ways, Tivo's relationship with DirecTV is "contracturally worse" than using a Comcast DVR, since Rupert Murdoch can control not only the network but the satellite dish that transmits the network. So, whether you pick Tivo, Comcast's DVR or DISH Network's DVR, you still have "contractural ties" to worry about. It appears the only choice you have for avoiding "contractural ties" is to build your own DVR.

You have a 'when' that you want? Why do you even know when Lost is on and what network shows it? Your DVR should be protecting you from needing to know that.

Well, since I still haven't purchased a high-definition DVR, yes, I do have a need to know. I prefer to watch shows in HD (when it's available). And, until I purchase a high-def DVR, I will continue to worry about when Lost or 24 is on the air. Right now, my non-HD DVR serves as a back-up, for those episodes I miss.

Re:I would switch.

[ChrisMaple]

DirecTivo features may vary somewhat depending upon the model. I have an 80 Gbyte model made by Samsung. It has no skip ahead 30 seconds feature, nor the jump 5 or 10 minutes. I can only jump ahead to 15 minute markers (and that only in FF) or jump back 8 seconds. Compare features very carefully before you buy.

Re:I would switch.

[ivan256]

This makes no sense on two levels. First of all, the price is NOT the same (see above).

That is true, which, combined with TiVo availablity is why I'm a DirecTV customer. DirecTV is movint towards their new DVR platform, however, and if I have to choose between that and Comcast with a CableCARD TiVO to get digital recordings, well... I'd switch in a second. Customer service is nice, but the good DVR software seals the deal (yeah, yeah, MythTV... It can't do digital recordings without a re-encode off an analog input yet unless you are one of the lucky few with a firewire cablebox and a cable company that doesn't encrypt. End of story. I am working on making my DSR7000 into a MythTV source though...)

In many ways, Tivo's relationship with DirecTV is "contracturally worse" than using a Comcast DVR, since Rupert Murdoch can control not only the network but the satellite dish that transmits the network. So, whether you pick Tivo, Comcast's DVR or DISH Network's DVR, you still have "contractural ties" to worry about.

DirecTV doesn't have the ability to change the software on my box. The important aspect here is that I know a network isn't going to be able to tell DirecTV to delete a show off my TiVO. The software on my box doesn't have that capability, and they are unable to put such software on my box. Try guaranteeing that with your Comcast or Dish DVR.

Better question:

[Anonymous Coward]

How much would you pay to put a survey on Slashdot?

Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[MaggieL]

Sounds to me like Cox is more interested in getting folks to switch from satellite to cable than they are in replacing their current DVRs with TiVos. Otherwise they'd be surveying their current customer base.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[Council]

As anyone who watches TV via Cox Cable knows, the cable vs. satellite thing is what's on their minds.

+1 insightful -- You're right, this has nothing to do with Generic DVR vs. TiVO. This is Cox getting a hold of TiVO, and advertising it to prospective customers by means of what is effectively a push poll. Crafty.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[IAmTheDave]

This is Cox getting a hold of TiVO

Didn't Comcast do this years ago? When do I get to replace my POS Comcast DVR with a Tivo already?

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[General Fault]

As a Cox customer I really wish they would go ahead with this. Their DVR is one of the worst I've ever used or even heard about. It is buggy as all hell and as user friendly as a gorilla that needs a nap.
Let me give an example. If you begin recording a show, then half way through the recording you try to play the recording, you will be forced to rewind to the beginning of the show. There is no way to "start from beginning" or "skip to start". When the live show ends, the playback also abruptly ends and the user is forced to start over and fast forward to where they were so rudely interrupted. LAME! This is only one of a large list of annoying "features".

Last year I moved from a home that was serviced by Time Warner. I happily used their limited but relatively bug free DVR for a couple of years. When I moved, I was forced to switch to Cox. Their DVR used the exact same hardware but the software was and continues to be a complete mess. I sent a bug report to the Cox DVR "development team" a year and a half ago. I was promised that I would be put on their beta test list and that they would be upgrading the software "very soon". That was the last I heard despite several e-mails and phone calls.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[sammy baby]

A little bit before the new year, I picked up a new HD set. I was pretty excited about it. If I'd known the runaround I was going to get from Comcast, I wouldn't have been.

1. I call Comcast. They tell me that an HD tuner and service is already in my plan, and all I need to do is pick one up at the office. When I show up (It's a 20 minute drive), they tell me that they're out. But they'll call me when they come in.
2. I check in after a couple of weeks. The person at Comcast says, "Oh - no, they're not gonna call you. You have to keep calling us." "Great. Hey - does my office have these HD tuners in yet?" "Yes!" Except when I get there, it turns out they don't, and haven't for days. I pitch a hissy fit, and they give me an "all in one" box (HD + DVR), promising not to charge me for the DVR part. I leave, mollified. The box doesn't work.
3. Guy from Comcast shows up... 8 days later. "Yup, it's broken," he says. He swaps the DVR out with a brand new box. Beautiful high-definition television, complete with DVR functionality! It works! For a few hours, anyway. That evening, the hard drive (or something) on the device starts making a clicking noise. The DVR part no longer works.
4. Guy from Comcast shows up... another TWO WEEKS LATER. He starts to swap out the box, discovers that the new one he has doesn't work at all, and puts the old one back. "It's a real problem," he admits. "All the techs just had a meeting about it. We unplug the units from the network to take them out, something changes in their config, and they have to be taken back to the office." Great. "Call to schedule another appointment in a couple of weeks."
5. I schedule another appointment. I call out from work to be there. Then someone leaves a message on the answering machine saying... they're out of set-top boxes again, and I've stayed home for nothing.

Fuck Comcast, right in their fucking eye.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[Tayknight]

The DVR used in different markets must be different. My Cox DVR (a Motorolla 6412 in West Texas) can do all these things.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[JPribe]

All this hinges on the idea that I actually watch television. As it happens I don't watch TV. Specifically, I watch less that an hour of television a week, and if I do watch it is TLS, Discover, History Channel...*if* I watch. I am really never so bored as to go rot in front of a TV...my wife is an avid CSI and Law & Order buff, though.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[tkrotchko]

Yeah, that's happened to Comcast in the last 12 or so months.

They used to be reasonably good about making appointments, keeping them, and double checking that everything was okay. And then out of the blue, they basically decided to give up on customer service.

I had a comcast cable internet service out of commission for a month. They kept insisting they had already been there and it already worked, but I had a feeling it was just so the trouble ticket never looked like it was open more than a day or two. Oh, and getting them to pay me back for the month of service was an exercise in corporate double-speak. After 2 weeks of this, even the supervisor told me that I'd been treated badly, but there was nothing she could do. Everybody *cared*, but comcast has set up their systems so that even their employees. Or so every one of their employees claimed.

I guess it shows that customer service is expensive, and in the name of profits, any company will screw you to the wall when there's big money involved http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2006/04/27/AR2006042701906.html

Coicidentally around the same time, Verizion started offering FIOS in our area. Wasn't much of a choice.

Afterwards when I dropped, comcast called me back. I said "Well, you had the service down for a month". The offered me 3 months free. What good is "free" if they don't care if your service works? I asked if he would commit comcast to getting problems fixed in a timely manner. He declined and hung up.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[deacon]

Yes.
This is why people switched TO sattelite TV FROM cable TV.

The "cable guy" movie was a documentary.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[koick]

Um, the last I checked, TFA was about COX, not Comcast. (Although, I'd bet anyone's experiences would be about the same between the two...)

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[Tatarize]

Compare this with my story of satellite. Ordered up a PVR hooked it up... now 3 years later (never a hitch) seriously debating upgrading because of all the cool new equipment that exists. I have cable internet and it sucks, but my DISH seems to be going strong. Also, my sister had TiVo for a while and didn't like it as much as the built in PVR.

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[sammy baby]

That's correct. I was responding to someone who posted a question about Comcast.

(I didn't really answer his question, though. I just saw the word Comcast and entered some kind of fugue state. When I came to my senses, my office was in a shambles and I'd typed up that screed.)

Re:Is it TiVo vs. DVR...or cable vs. satellite?

[koick]

Dooooode! I TOTALLY hear your most extreme form of frustration with your cable company. Like I said, they are no doubt all about the same; an order of magnitude more agrivating than the cellular companies, and to boot, you don't even have a choice (unless you want satellite, but then you have to use some other damn company for DSL service). For the consumers in this country it's really a losing situation and all-the-while because of the greed of the CEOs, we are slipping further and further behind other first world contries when it comes to residential digital services. I think it's outragous to pay $95 a month to get non-digital TV (with no premium channels) and speed limited internet. But again, what really is the compelling alternative? None. This story seems a little akin to what it would be like if the government hadn't disbanded the phone company back in the 80s -- just think, you'd be paying about $100 a month for a very basic cellular plan and wouldn't have any choice.

Two questions

[Dark Paladin]

I haven't read the article yet (it's in my other tab) - but two questions:

1. Is this "crippled" in any way, or is it a real Tivo?
2. Does it plug into the Digital cable, or just the regular analog?

I have a Tivo now, but another one would be useful (since my wife likes the American Idol shows, and I - don't). But if Cox is considering this, especially in wake of the recent Tivo/Echostar (if I remember correctly) lawsuit, Cox could save money on development, say "You know, the control isn't worth the hassle" (which would be called "buying a clue"), and Tivo could get more customers. Everybody wins, even the cable customers.

Which is why I'm looking outside the window for those damn flying pigs.

Re:Two questions

[stevel]

What it is most likely to be is TiVo software running on a Motorola 64xx hardware platform, in use today by Cox and many other cable TV companies. It is well known that TiVo is already developing such a thing and that Comcast plans to offer it later this year.

So you would get the nice TiVo interface and feature set on the Motorola box. You might not get the networking features standalone TiVo users have become accustomed to, nor the "hackability" of older TiVo boxes.

An alternative would be the TiVo Series 3 box, due "second half" of this year. This is a dual-CableCARD HD box specifically designed for cable (no satellite or other external inputs.)

Re:Two questions

[Lumpy]

I'll bet dollars that it's the lame "TiVo Basic" that comes on many DVD recorders now. It's a "free" tivo service that is seriously lacking even in general VCR capabilities and with annoying advertisements on how your live would be better if you simply upgraded to full tivo service.

It bothered me so much I returned the unit and bought a Lite-ON DVD recorder with hard drive instead.

TiVO will not be free without a premium being charged, or COX will simply up your monthly rate by a unnoticable $13.95 a month.

Re:Two questions

[japhering]

1. Is this "crippled" in any way, or is it a real Tivo?
2. Does it plug into the Digital cable, or just the regular analog?

The real question is how much extra is Cox going to charge? Right now, in my
area, it's $10 per month for their DVR and another $15 per month for the guide service.. If they
move to Tivo hardware.. they still get $10 per month for hardware rental, but now they either
have to negotiate a reduced cost for the guide service or lose all the revenue for the guide service

Re:Two questions

[Gr8Apes]

I have Comcast and Dish on the same TV. Until cable upgrades its signal to digital, I don't see the point in switching. Comcast's analog stations are crap compared to even the lower quality dish digital signals. So, to answer the question, I'd rather stick with a supposed "hamstrung" PVR that doesn't phone home over a Tivo connected to a crappy signal.

Re:Two questions

[Anonymous Coward]

"Right now, in my area, it's $10 per month for their DVR and another $15 per month for the guide service."

Wow, so $25 just so you can record with the guide?
No wonder Directv just announced a $230M profit for the quarter.
Their DVR fee is only $6/mo and includes the guide (people actually pay extra for a guide?)
Granted, they are no longer promoting the Tivo branded DVR in favor of their own homegrown one
but it is still available if you request it (apparently their homegrown one is a POS)

Everytime I get fed up with DTV and swear I'm going back to cable, I read stuff like this which reminds me why I left cable in the first place.

Re:Two questions

[Enderandrew]

Cox already surpasses this, so I don't think they'd be going towards this. And I considered switching to satelitte from Cox, but a HD-Tivo box would cost me $700 out of pocket. Cox gives me a HD-DVR box for free. That alone should make customers consider switching. But if Cox wants to give me the fully branded Tivo box for the same price, then I'm not complaining. The two features I want that I currently lack are the 30-second skip button, and the ability to download shows from the DVR/Tivo to my laptop.

Re:Two questions

[virtualkuz]

Comcast is upgrading the basic channels to come in digitally. If you get basic digital service (no HD, no DVR) Comcast gives you a Moto DCT700 http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/productdetai l.asp?ProductID=385 which has no analog tuner, everything is digital. It is a great improvement over the fuzzy basic cable you are talking about.

Re:Two questions

[Gr8Apes]

I have heard that it is still of lower quality than dish's offerings.

However, I have not personally verified this in the past couple of years. Do you have personal experience comoparing the two side by side?

Re:Two questions

[onemorechip]

I don't think he's a Cox customer. They don't offer the DVR and guide separately; they are bundled together. The DVR with guide is about $5/month. But there are separate charges for the digital gateway (one per household) and for each tuner you rent. Those are charges you would pay anyway without the DVR, unless you went with basic analog service.

Of course, it's possible that this varies from area to area, but the $25 he cited really seems unlikely.

I would switch

[iogan]

I don't even know what any of these things are, but sure, what the hell. I'll switch.

tivo all the stuff automatically?

[192939495969798999]

If they're doing that, why don't they hook up a bunch of Tivo's at the local distribution, and tivo everything? That way, you could watch any program at any time. Of course, some programs would be "too busy", and they'd only have x hours/shows in advance, but that would be completely sweet.

Re:tivo all the stuff automatically?

[drinkypoo]

They have agreements about when they air content. Showing you this content out of band would probably violate agreements. Letting you do it, as per fair use, is different. This will eventually come, though, since every cable provider is working on rolling out VoD.

Re:tivo all the stuff automatically?

[TigerTime]

Well, because the local cable only has to serve out 150 or so channels from their station at any one time. If they made everything "On Demand", then that 180 figure would go out the window and be somewhere around 1,000,000 TV signals flowing through that bandwidth for all the people in the neighborhood watching different stuff at any one given time.

They don't have the bandwidth for that.

Re:tivo all the stuff automatically?

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked on a project to do this for a European cable operator. We didn't use racks full of Tivos, but did have the concept of mass-recording content and making it available on-demand for a period afterwards.

Re:tivo all the stuff automatically?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cablevision (Long Island Cable) tried doing everything on-demand only to fail. Now they are trying a different solution that gives the same illusion.

Now way, unless I could purchase it, and it was HD

[The Joe Kewl]

Most likely you would have to rent the Tivo DVR from COX for a month to month fee, and that would make it very limited to what you could do (hack) with the Tivo box.

No thank you, I will keep my current Satellite Tivo, which I own, and can do whatever I want with (like upgrade the hard drive, add web interface, etc..)

Now if I could purchase the Tivo from Cox for X amount of dollars, and the unit supported HD TV recording, I would maybe consider it.

Come to expect what?

[Reality Master 101]

Being someone who has both a Tivo unit and a Cox DVR (the Tivo is in my living room, the other is my hi-def plasma in the game room for the home theatre), I have to say that the Tivo doesn't really do anything the DVR doesn't do. The primary differences are:

1) The Tivo will download "recommendations" (which I have yet to ever use). Advantage: Tivo (I guess)
2) The DVR has a way better guide that has a nice preview screen (Advantage: DVR)
3) The DVR has two-channel capability (watch one show while the other records). Advantage: DVR
4) The Tivo has to use the serial input, which makes channel changing slow, versus the DVR which is integrated with the cable box. Advantage: DVR
5) The DVR can do HDTV. Advantage: DVR (those I suppose these new Tivos might do it)
6) The user interface on the Tivo is way simpler. Advantage: Tivo.

All in all, I'd say my existing DVR is way better than the Tivo, though if they added what's good about the DVR, maybe it would be OK. I suppose my point is that the Tivo isn't so far ahead of the DVR that it's going to make some huge difference.

Re:Come to expect what?

[gEvil (beta)]

I have a DirecTiVo, and with the exception of HD, it does everything on your list. There is also an HD DirecTiVo, but it's being phased out with the switch to MPEG-4.

Re:Come to expect what?

[silas_moeckel]

You have apparently never used a sat tivo.

1) same
2) Subjective
3) tie
4) tie
5) tie
6) same

So the only catagory the DVR might be better at would be the guide interface. As a long time user of Tivo I use the my recordings a lot more than guide and like ther overlayed look. The Direct Tivo's can do a picture in a window similar to your DVR but thats personal preferance though having the option is good. Now for the rest of the features.

Tivo can move recodings off the tivo onto the server.
Tivo can talk to other tivo's in the same house and move recodings around.
Tivo can access content on your pc for playback on your TV. (Think rip all your DVD's and never have to touch them again)
Tivo allows you to access 3rd party applications.
Tivo will stream internet sources and MP3's

Re:Come to expect what?

[HaeMaker]

I would imagine Cox would use TiVo Series3.

Re:Come to expect what?

[cmj]

What about Tivo To Go, online scheduling, audible confirmation of button clicks, and multiple room support (record on one watch on another)? I had to switch to a Comcast DVR for High Def and sorely miss those features... almost enough to return the Comcast box and use the TiVo with standard def programming.

Of course I haven't and that's what Comcast is counting on.

Re:Come to expect what?

[MyOtherUIDis3digits]

It looks like every disagreement I had with your post has already been said except for one, and it concerns your comment about recommendations. I don't know that I've ever watched one recommended recording, but I love it because it's the quickest, easiest way to see roughly how much room is left on your hard drive.

Once I get down to a couple of screenfuls or less of them, I know I need to clean some of my saved stuff off.

Re:Come to expect what?

[Lumpy]

you forget the one most important feature that NO cable DVR has.

30 second skip.

any DVR without that sucks. I am not going to fast foreward through the commercials, I am going to simply pop past them.

Its the only reason that I dumped TiVO for ReplayTV. (yes, I know you can hack the 30 second skip back in.)

Re:Come to expect what?

[Mark Imbriaco]

The Cox DVR has two tuners and both are HD capable whereas the DirecTV HDTiVo has one SD and one HD. Until TiVo offers dual HD tuners, I'm not interested in switching, despite the fact that I would really like to have the networking features that TiVo offers.

Re:Come to expect what?

[fruity_pebbles]

Tivo can move recodings off the tivo onto the server.
Tivo can talk to other tivo's in the same house and move recodings around.

Yes, but it's godawful slow at network access. A one-hour show takes about one hour to move to another Tivo or to a PC. Moving the same file from one PC to another takes about one-tenth the time.

Re:Come to expect what?

[caudron]

1) The Tivo will download "recommendations" (which I have yet to ever use). Advantage: Tivo (I guess)

And offers more recording options in general. Advatage: Very much TiVo.

2) The DVR has a way better guide that has a nice preview screen (Advantage: DVR)

OK. Valid point. Advatage DVR.

3) The DVR has two-channel capability (watch one show while the other records). Advantage: DVR

TiVo has tons of multi-tuner models already in use for DirectTV, for instance. Advantage No one.

4) The Tivo has to use the serial input, which makes channel changing slow, versus the DVR which is integrated with the cable box. Advantage: DVR

They don't make OEM deals to send you an off-the-shelf TiVo unit. TiVo helps them integrate their software into a new box that does it all. See Satellite units for examples of this. Advantage: No one.

5) The DVR can do HDTV. Advantage: DVR (those I suppose these new Tivos might do it)

Not just newer ones. Satellite TiVo's have been doing HDTV for a while. Advantage: No one.

6) The user interface on the Tivo is way simpler. Advantage: Tivo.

Agreed.

So on the whole, you gain two things frmo your list (ease-of-use and better recording options) and lose one (you like the channel guide better). Given how much more TiVo brings to the table, I'd say the winner is TiVo.

Tom Caudron
http://tom.digitalelite.com/

Re:Come to expect what?

[swb]

Do you actually have any comparisons beyond just channel flipping? Such as season passes, wish lists, user interfaces, device stability, etc?

The Guide and other live TV functions are features I almost never use, since I almost never watch live TV. For me the value of Tivo is how well it can record what I want (wish lists, season passes) and the ease of use in doing so and playing the recordings back.

Admittedly the standalone hardware is pretty much obsolete; serial/IR channel changing, analog-only audio and video, and the single tuner capability cleary set it behind the cable DVRs for those capabilities.

But this should change with the S3 standalones.

Re:Come to expect what?

[silas_moeckel]

Actualy the HD Tivo has 2 HD sat tuners and 2 Terestial HD tuners but you can only record 2 HD programs at once. Terestial HD looks butifull BTW.

Re:Come to expect what?

[silas_moeckel]

Yup it's slow but slow is better than the nothing that a cox DVR offers. I get better than an hour of content in an hour and there are more invasive methods (MTU size) to get better than that. Generaly this only annoys me when I'm watching a rip of a DVD and want to skip past the intro credits.

Re:Come to expect what?

[Reality Master 101]

you forget the one most important feature that NO cable DVR has. [...] 30 second skip.

You're right, I should've mentioned that one. The truth is, my DVR's fast-forward mode is pretty well designed. When you stop it, it flips back 10 seconds. The fast forward is so fast then I can typically skip past everything in 3 or 4 seconds. I think it actually works out better than the 30 second skip, though I have to pay more attention. The FF on the Tivo doesn't seem to work as well, though I can't at this second define for you why exactly (I think it moves back as well). It might be that the DVR seems to flash more frames than the Tivo, so I can pick out where the program has started again.

Either one works for me, though I admit it'd be nice to have the 30 second option on the DVR.

Re:Come to expect what?

[MyNameIsEarl]

I have used both, I have Time Warner DVR, my brother-in-law has Direct TV with Tivo. The Sat/Tivo guide is slow and clunky and makes a boop sound everytime I turn it on, it boops whenever you fast forward as well. I really don't like the boops. My other problem with it is there is no built in Picture in Picture. My Time Warner box has that, it works even if your tv is not PIP capable. I can also record 2 shows at once, which I understand Tivo has just come up with? As far a making recommendations, I don't really see a use for that. So Tivo may be great for some people but I don't need one, my Time Warner box gives me features I actually use, the PIP is great for checking baseball scores while watching a show with your wife.

Re:Come to expect what?

[jargoone]

I really don't like the boops.

So turn them off, then.

Re:Come to expect what?

[gwhenning]

I used a ReplayTv, Microsoft Ultimate TV, DISH DVR, and my TiVos, and I like the TiVo the best.
Especially, this one. As for your list Tivo either has or will be updating their boxes to cover most of what you point out as an advantage to the DVR. A quick look:

1) The Tivo will download "recommendations" (which I have yet to ever use).

Advantage: Tivo

2) The DVR has a way better guide that has a nice preview screen.

The series 2 TiVos let you choose which style of guide you like and you can change them by simply pressing guide again.

3) The DVR has two-channel capability (watch one show while the other records).

Advantage: Tie for the new DT Tivo & DirecTiVo

4) The Tivo has to use the serial input, which makes channel changing slow, versus the DVR which is integrated with the cable box.

Advantage: DVR for now, but series 3 Tivos are cablecard ready

5) The DVR can do HDTV.

Advantage: DVR for now, but series 3 Tivos are HDTV ready

6) The user interface on the Tivo is way simpler.

Advantage: Tivo.

The user interface is what makes the TiVo. It is simply the easiest (of the ones I've used.) to use. My wife doen't like any computers or electronics, but she loves the TiVo and her iPod. Even my 4 year old can use our TiVo.

Re:Come to expect what?

[tm2b]

(yes, I know you can hack the 30 second skip back in.)

Hack?

Only if you consider hitting a quick sequence of buttons on your remote control ( select-play-3-0-select ) once per reboot of the TiVo hacking, I guess. It's more like a cheat code.

It's a little annoying, I suppose, but it's highly disingenuous to claim that TiVo doesn't have the feature - I use it every day, and friends with TiVos are always glad to learn about it and start using it as soon as they're shown the sequence.

Re:Come to expect what?

[jollespm]

There is an option in TiVO to change the volume of the sound effects. I don't particularly care for them, and that is why I have them turned off. The recommendations feature is interesting, but unless you take a lot of time to rate everything you watch and don't, you can get some weird recommendations. Again, this feature can be turned off.

Re:Come to expect what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhh. Don't tell him that Tivo can be customized to your liking.

He might finally realize what a sorry sack of shit his Cable/Sat DVR is. Though probably it won't make a difference - living in denial is such a warm fuzzy feeling, you don't want to leave it.

Re:Come to expect what?

[milkman_matt]

Only if you consider hitting a quick sequence of buttons on your remote control ( select-play-3-0-select ) once per reboot of the TiVo hacking, I guess. It's more like a cheat code.

I have a TiVo and I don't even bother with the code.. the FFWD feature is fine for me, and I'm not even using their remote (which would be even nicer, I use a Philips TSU500 LCD remote without tactile feedback) I just press FFWD 3 times to get it up to max speed, once I see the show I hit it one more time and it goes back to play mode about 10 seconds earlier, I catch maybe 2 seconds of commercial and the show is back on... after you do it enough you pretty much know exactly where to stop... I never have a problem with it..

Re:Come to expect what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I threw out my Tivo in favor of my COX DVR because I can watch one show, while recording the other. Tivo asked me why I was cancelling their service - I told them this reason - They said 'good reason' have a nice day.

Re:Come to expect what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Replay units come with not only the 30 second skip but the skip break button. One press and I am past the entire commercial break. The REplayTV marks the ENTIRE break as commercials!

tivo HAD these features but they bent over for their content overlords and took them out.

Yes that is a HACK. if it does not come with it enabled by default then it is not a standard feature.

Replay still kicks the TiVO butt. you cant get a 6 tuner TiVO but I can easily add tuners to my REplay by simply buying additional units and they all work together on the network. (another recent added expense for Tivo owners because they had to copy Replay.)

Be honest, tivo was first but replay did it right. Msft simply made a joke that nobody wanted (ultimate TV... HA!)

I want a feature that nobody has. record ther show correctly when a useless sporting event moves it by 15-30 minutes.

Re:Come to expect what?

[ad0gg]

You forgot to mention that TIVO spies on you and requires a phone connection to send its spying back to tivo. I dropped my directivo and switched to cable just because directivo requires a phone line which would cost me $25 more a month since i don't have a phone line in my apartment. And to add insult to injury, the only reason it requires a phone line is to report back its spying since directivo recieves its guide and updates from the sat feed.

Re:Come to expect what?

[ArizonaJer]

Significantly, the satellite (i.e., DirecTV) version of TiVo has its networking capabilities crippled so that it does NONE of the following without major hacking:

• Tivo can move recodings off the tivo onto the server.
• Tivo can talk to other tivo's in the same house and move recodings around.
• Tivo can access content on your pc for playback on your TV. (Think rip all your DVD's and never have to touch them again)
• Tivo allows you to access 3rd party applications.
• Tivo will stream internet sources and MP3's

It's a constant source of frustration to me.

However, it did not stop me from (yesterday) ordering a new, HD, DirecTV TiVo. Why? As of 1 April, they're carrying four local channels in HD.

Comcast's HD DVR ostensibly does the same thing. I tried it and the HD is good, but the standard definition local channels are crap. They take them over the air (and not from the satellite) and they've never looked that good.

Re:Come to expect what?

[silas_moeckel]

Funny my direct tivo's dont care about phone lines anymore (modified) and according to my phone bill they only called the same number as the other direct tv receivers to tattle about what pay per view you baught. It's a simple fix to get rid of the nag screen about calling but after the first call it never needs to phone home again unless you order pay per view.

Re:Come to expect what?

[JhohannaVH]

Not to mention that you can record 2 shows at once, you just have to be watching (or leave the tv channel) on one of them.

I hate Tivos. I hate their interface, I hate the way they work. And I *HATE* satelitte television because it SUCKS. Especially for HD. Yes, I've tried it, yes, I hate it. And I hate the Tivo even more.

So, as a loyal Cox Communications customer, if they go Tivo, I'll drop them altogether. I do NOT think this is a wise choice for Cox, and am going to be off to write a letter to them. I've been a consistent early adopter of their tech, and I've been so supremely happy with their DVR, it's amazing. Never had a problem. NEVER. The only thing we did experience was some signal problems with our HD, but that was the 1970s coax in my condo... cheap ass owners. That being said, the only trouble I've had in *EIGHT* years has been a) my digital telephone and b) my cable modem died after 5 years of constant use.

All in all, I think they've got the satelitte bubbas pegged. AND, I get free 5MB straight pipe to the 'net since I've been using the broadband for 8 years. :)

Re:Come to expect what?

[doyle.jack]

I've never used Tivo, but my Cox DVR can distinguish new episodes from reruns (i.e. record only NEW episodes of Lost, House, etc. do NOT record reruns). A friend of mine who has a Tivo said that the Tivo cannot do that.

Pardon me if I am incorrect.

Tivo Branding

[tokki]

Tivo has done an amazing job at branding. They're synonymous with good DVR, and I even reffer to my generic Time Warner DVR as "Tivo", and when I record a show I reffer to it as being "Tivo'd".

Re:Tivo Branding

[ckotchey]

I've had and used a ReplayTV recorder from the earliest days when Tivo was just appearing on the map. I, and everyone I've known who have owned ReplayTV's have always thought them the best of the options, given that we can send and share shows with each other (and between rooms in the house) via the internet/network connections.

But yeah, I have to refer to it as a Tivo to anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about.

Re:Tivo Branding

[geoffspear]

shh... now they're going to track you down and sue you for diluting their trademark.

Re:Tivo Branding

[Golias]

Yep. I also use Tivo as a verb, even though I'm actually using a Mac and EyeTV to record shows.

Living in a metro area, though, these people have no chance of getting my business anyway.

I mean, "South Park" and "The Colbert Report" are funny and all, but there just doesn't seem to be enough good stuff on cable/satelite TV to make it worth paying for.

I get House and Lost in glorious Hi-Def for free.
I get Doctor Who off usenet, months ahead of the Sci Fi channel.
Battlestar Galactica & The Sopranos eventually come out on DVD.

Plus, buying or renting DVDs of my favorite anime shows means being able to watch them with their original voice casts, instead of putting up with the crappy dubs you get on Adult Swim, the Anime Channel, etc.

If I lived out in the sticks, where over-the-air HD was not an option, I could *maybe* see paying for the privilige of tuning in TV, but as it stands it's almost as pointless as XM radio.

Re:Tivo Branding

[Buran]

Tivos can also room share shows.

Re:Tivo Branding

[jandrese]

Sadly all of those great features are what eventually killed them in the marketplace. Half of the stuff that made it great is either lawsuit bait or something that insures that no cable/satellite company will even give you time of day.

Re:Tivo Branding

[engwar]

Just because a product or company's name has become a verb doesn't mean it will be the most successful item in the marketplace.

Now pardon me as I go "Xerox" something on our HP copier.

if only Time Warner would switch...

[egomaniac]

I wish my cable company would consider that. I can't stand the DVRs Time Warner provides. I used to have a TiVo, but "upgraded" to the Time Warner DVRs (made by Scientific Atlanta) in order to get high-def and on-demand content. They are such awful pieces of junk that it's difficult to fully describe the magnitude of difference between them and TiVos.

Just to give a single example, suppose you're watching a show. Another show is scheduled to record, and it tells you it's going to have to switch the channel. You cancel the recording of the other show, because you're trying to watch something. It does indeed cancel the recording -- but only of that particular show. If there are five other things it would also like to record during this particular time slot, it will immediately switch to one of them with no warning or option to cancel. You say "WTF?" and switch back to what you were watching. The DVR then immediately switches to the second thing on the list, again giving you no warning or option to cancel. It will continue to do this until you have exhausted all of the things it would like to record, finally letting you actually watch your show. It's basically punishing you for creating season passes to a bunch of stuff, because it does this every time several shows happen to come on the same time. There are so many more brain-dead things like this that I can't even begin to list them all.

Unfortunately I consider high-def and on-demand content (marginally) more important than having a TiVo, but it's a close thing. If I could upgrade to TiVos for a reasonable price (DirecTV wanted $1000 for theirs, compared to $10/month for Time Warner's DVRs), I would do it in a heartbeat. The Scientific Atlanta boxes suck ass.

Re:if only Time Warner would switch...

[Martin Blank]

This is somewhat worrying to me, as I've grown accustomed to the Moxi capabilities on the Motorola box that I lease from Adelphia. TW is due to take over the area in a few months, but there's been little word on what will be happening with the DVRs. I know that Moxi has a coming deal on a better device made by another company (Samsung?), but whether TW will pick up on it is a significant question.

I'd been hoping for TiVo to get on the Cablecard bandwagon until the clarifications were posted on ArsTechnica about the very limited capabilities of the CC spec; now I'm rather happy with the Moxi since the upgrade that included VOD, all things considered. I don't have to deal with the IR Blaster to change channels, and I can watch and record at the same time, which I understand is difficult at best with a TiVo.

Re:if only Time Warner would switch...

[crosstalk]

I never had this problem with the Scientific Atlanta boxes in the Raleigh Market, all the time I was watching video from one channel while it was recording others, never forced me to switch or anything. I did this often as I would then switch over from the beginning and bypass all the commercials. Also it was only 6.50 when I started in that area. The hi-def DVr box always operated great. now the On-Demand stuff they offered had lots of problems.

Re:if only Time Warner would switch...

[tchapin]

With a single-tuner TiVo, you can watch an already recorded show while recording something else.

However, TiVo just released a dual-Tuner card, which would allow recording of two shows at once while watching a pre-recorded one, or recording one show while watching something on live TV.

I have a single-tuner TiVo and almost never watch live TV. For some events, like the Oscars or whatever, I'll record it, but watch it delayed, so that I can skip boring parts or commercials. I've found that there are really very few times when I would want dual-tuner capability.

Todd

Re:if only Time Warner would switch...

[DigiShaman]

It's not a bug or flaw.

You can only record two programs at the same time, and then switch between the two. However, you can record one, and then watch whatever you want. The reason being is because they (SA8000 and SA8300 boxes) only have two tuners built in.

Re:if only Time Warner would switch...

[Martin Blank]

The TiVos don't work natively with digital cable, and that's the problem. The dual digital receive tuners (there is a third playback-only tuner) on the Moxi (or any DVR) are required for my roommate and me, as we have shows that air at the same time that we record for later viewing. We could set up a splitter, but with the associated costs (buying a TiVo, plus the monthly service, plus the new furniture to house it, plus the additional electricity when I'm trying to reduce my power usage) I just can't justify it.

Re:if only Time Warner would switch...

[egomaniac]

You're suggesting that it's NOT a bug when the box:

A) Asks you if you would like to change the channel
B) Allows you to say "No, don't change the channel"
C) ...and then changes the channel anyway?

This is a bug. I had my TiVo for around five years before getting the Time Warner box, so I know how a DVR is supposed to work. The TiVo also asked if you would like to change channels, but amazingly enough actually listened to the answer.

Re:if only Time Warner would switch...

[DigiShaman]

Oh, that's a bug! I personally haven't run into that issue before. Does this happen all the time, or just some freakish fluke?

Re:if only Time Warner would switch...

[egomaniac]

It happens when there are two or more shows that the box would like to record coming on at the same time -- try picking five shows that are all on at the same time. When that time rolls around, you will be prompted to change channels to see one of the shows. If you say no, it will switch to one of the OTHER shows instead of remaining on the current channel. Then when you cancel the recording of that show, it will switch to the next show in the list, etc.

On my boxes (which I believe are Explorer 8000HDs) this is 100% reproducible.

No Hacking for new customers

[a_greer2005]

Directv makes all new users LEASE equipment, that meaqns no "hacking" or upgrading if I were to go from Insight(a division of Cox) to Directv...welcome to the beginnings a world where you LEASE all of your electronics (or in the case of PCs the software running on them) to keep the corperations in control of every aspect of life...

Re:No Hacking for new customers

[kalidasa]

I take it you don't remember the bad old day when you could only lease your telephone or your Xerox.

Re:No Hacking for new customers

[Anonymous Coward]

And if the customer has the unit stolen/"loses" it? Sure, the "replacement" fee on their most crappy box might be very high (I'm guessing $300, IIRC they charged $75 - $125 for lost/damaged access cards), but, if you can get the programming free for the next three or four months, so what?

Re:No Hacking for new customers

[Overzeetop]

Yeah, but these aren't TiVos, there DirecTV DVRs, and are made for entirely different purpose (enhanced satellite viewing experience, vs a personalized media box). Yes, I'd jump on this, if (1) Cox were allowed in my town (we're Adelphia only) and (2) TiVo was bumped from DirecTV entirely (coming soon).

Re:No Hacking for new customers

[Professor_UNIX]

welcome to the beginnings a world where you LEASE all of your electronics (or in the case of PCs the software running on them) to keep the corperations in control of every aspect of life...

It's not necessarily a bad thing. Leasing the equipment will always guarantee you free replacement hardware and upgrades in the future. So instead of dropping $500 on a box you spend $5 a month (or whatever)... that's much more cost efficient! It'd take you around 8 years to get a return on your purchase of the equipment over just leasing it! How many of you out there still have working 8 year old TiVos?

Cox DVR SUCKS!

[Radi-0-head]

The Cox DVR is awful. From a usability perspective, TiVo blows it away.

I've been through three. All of them like to spontaneously reboot themselves, especially while in the middle of recording a show (which is subsequently lost as the box spends 5 minutes booting up).

If you start playback of a program that is being recorded, the DVR will stop when the program is finished recording, and throw you right back to the beginning of the program so you have to fast-forward to where you were. Maybe they fixed this since I gave up on the thing a few months ago.

Search functionality is useless. The box isn't smart enough to figure out that programs sometimes move from their original time slot, so it will continue to record as usual, just the wrong stuff.

If the TiVo supported digital cable channels, OnDemand, and multiple tuners, I'd buy one yesterday.

Re:Cox DVR SUCKS!

[fishbowl]

Yes. Even when it works as designed, it's got some serious usability issues.

One very annoying thing is the way it terminates playback if the program you're recording, ends while you are watching it.
You then have to lookup the file, and do a linear search from the beginning or the end (which will spoil the ending for you!)

If you pause to read something on the screen, you have to go back more than you intend, because the big ugly progress bar will usually cover up whatever it was you wanted to see.

I never trust the Cox DVR to pickup my programs.

Re:Cox DVR SUCKS!

[mizel]

I have used Cox, Comcast, Time Warner and TiVo The Comcast DVR is by far the worst. It sporadically turns off--often. The recordings become pixelated and distorted. Sometime the DVR doesn't even capture sound (try watching Sopranos without sound). And the unit will periodically stop accepting input from the remote control, only to eventually do 10 things at once (usually somthing like PAUSE, PLAY, PAUSE, PLAY, PAUSE, PLAY, PAUSE since it never wants to stop fast forwarding). Recording 2 things at once is buggy at best and if you want to record on the fly (press record rather than prescheduling it), don't even think about changing the channels. I never had any problems with my Cox unit, but I used that one about a year ago. Maybe the newer modles are suffering from the same problems as my current Comcast unit. The time Warner unit is the best of the Cable companies' offerings. TiVo is on a different level in my opinion with features like commercial skip, smart recvery from FF/RW (jumps back a few seconds), suggestions, content organization and management, etc. Someone also mentioned not being able to record 2 shows simultaneously, but this is possible with the Series2 model: http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series2 80hrDTDVR I guess you get what you pay for. As for the cable vs. sat. battle. If cox offered a TiVo with the DVR option I would take this over anything else currently available. Oh, and I don't work for TiVo...just a TiVo evangalist.

Re:Cox DVR SUCKS!

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I hate the Sci Atlanta DVRs.

I like what it does, but it's kinda a pain in the ass.

Re:Cox DVR SUCKS!

[Casca]

100% agreed.

When fastforwarding, the audio will frequently lose sync with the video, and you'll have to rewind a bit to get try and get it to sync back up again.

The "record only new episodes" feature should be renamed to "record anything in this timeslot, or nothing at all, whichever is more annoying".

No 30 second skip forward.

Sometimes after fast forwarding, it takes a good 5-10 seconds for the audio to come back on.

Explanation of any of the video output settings are horrible. All it says is "Upconvert-1" "Upconvert-2" "Fixed" and "Passthrough"... What the hell is "upconvert-1" supposed to mean? What is it upconverting to?

Re:Cox DVR SUCKS!

[pla]

The Cox DVR is awful. From a usability perspective, TiVo blows it away.

Ah, you apparently received one of the functional models. Consider yourself lucky that it works well enough to compare with TiVo.

The horror stories range from them simply not working at all (regardless of how many times the customer has the unit grudgingly replaced by a tech who mumbles about "signal quality" and "poor power in this area"); to the DVR randomly recording whatever the hell it wants (and of course, not recording what the user wants); to resetting at least once every five minutes (a close relative has that problem with theirs - COX used the "poor power" excuse, despite it sitting on a line-interactive UPS!).


Customers might "prefer" TiVO? Hah! More like "We expect our DVR customers to start a class action in the next few months".

Re:Cox DVR SUCKS!

[onemorechip]

You forgot to mention this:

Show A starts at 8 PM and ends at 9 PM. Show B starts at 9 PM and ends at 10 PM. Both are on the same channel and you want to record both, and you want to include the 5 minutes after each show in case they run long, as some networks are inclined to do. You have to program them indpendently, because some weeks A might be pre-empted or B might be a rerun.

Well, you can't do this, because the Cox DVR will tell you it's impossible to record two overlapping programs on the same channel -- even though you have two tuners and the other tuner is not otherwise being used. WTF?

If it supported HD...

[vanyel]

I just got the HD Tivo for DirecTV, but it looks like I'm in a bad location where I can't see any of the terrestrial HD transmitters. Apparently DirecTV's HD DVR can pull in local HD channels, but they're highly compressed, which seems to me like it defeats the purpose of going HD in the first place. And it sounds like it's user interface sucks too.

So, IF:

1. I could get full quality HD channels
2. I could expand the disk capacity

or

1. It was setup to allow me to archive shows (fat chance)

Then I would switch...

The real story

[hal2814]

"If Cox were to offer digital cable service with a TiVo branded DVR for about the same price as you are currently paying for satellite service each month, how likely would you be to switch from satellite TV to Cox cable that featured this TiVo branded DVR service?" (emphasis mine)

The real story here isn't that Cox may slap the Tivo name on their DVRs. It's that they may be thinking about dropping their hideously high prices. For Cox to offer what I used to pay a month for satellite plus the cost of Tivo they'd have to come down about $10 - $15 per month.

All the more reason

[slummy]

To build a MythTV.

Re:All the more reason

[Chicken04GTO]

MythTH - an appropriate name.

MythTV is cheaper! - Well thats a Myth, unless you have a PC tree w/capture cards growing in your backyard
MythTV is easy to use! - Another Myth, unless you define driver hell and audio/video synch issues as easy

Tivo is the definition of reliable and easy...they can take my $5 a month...far superior to the $300-$500 MythTV + dozens of hours of setup and troubleshooting (grief!!)

Re:All the more reason

[slummy]

They can take your $5 a month, plus your freedom to keep your shows as long as you want. Over a period of time, the money you spent on the cost of the TiVO box and the monthly service fee you could've had a MythTV running smoothly and freely. Fag.

Re:All the more reason

[grasshoppa]

In general, I agree. Myth is more expensive and not as user friendly.

That said, I built one, and I'm about to build a second and seperate front end. Why? For the same reason people climb mountains:

Because it's there.

Re:All the more reason

[james_orr]

You can pick up a bttv card for under $20. Even with that though, it is still more expensive than a TiVo unless you have an old computer you're not using for anything else.

Setting up MythTV is certainly not easy. After it's setup, it's very easy to use.

MythTV is a hobby that happens to have a practical usage. Like any other hobby you throw money and time at it. If you get into MythTV looking for a quick and dirty way to get a PVR you will be sorely disappointed.

My own MythTV box has been running for over two years. During that time, the only reason I've missed a TV show I want to see has been due to power outages. That's pretty damn reliable.

Re:All the more reason

[Anonymous Coward]

MythTV can record ATSC and NTSC but I have yet to see it record from Cable Card, DirecTV, or Dish. I realize this is due primarily to a lack of PC cards but it is still a limitation.

Re:All the more reason

[Xenna]

A Tivo very un-userfriendly in the sense that I can't buy one or its matching EPG service in Europe.

That's why I'm so happy with my 3-tuner MythTV setup. OK, so it's a bit of a hassle to get running, but after that it just keeps running and my GF has no problems operating it.

X.

Cox Digital is Analog

[kwiqsilver]

Every channel below 100 ("basic" cable and non-HD locals) is analog even with Cox's mislabeled "digital" service. They want to keep backwards compatibility with their analog subscribers, and don't want to spend the extra money to have separate digital channels for comedy central, cartoon network, etc.

In December 2003 I bought a 56" DLP HDTV. I plugged in my Cox digital cable, and the flaws of the analog signal (especially the ghosting) were so bad, I ordered dish network's HD package the next day. The picture and sound (even on the non-HD channels) are far superior. And the dish service with HD is cheaper than the digital service was with Cox!

I'll never* go back.



* Unless they provide a better service at a better price...which won't be any time soon.

Re:Cox Digital is Analog

[doughrama]

I had almost the exact the same experience and result. My wife and I had Cox cable and then we bought an 55" HDTV. The Cox signal (analog at least) is terrible, it's often looks bad with a regular television and is totally unacceptable (IMHO) with an HDTV/larger screen. It took about two days for us to make our decision, we ended up going with DirecTV... It's was a interesting choice, but long story short we went with DirecTV purely because they were the only company that offered both HD and Tivo at the time. Tivo being the deciding factor.

Re:Cox Digital is Analog

[Anonymous Coward]

Digital to Cox just means horrible low resolution non-analog. The analog Cox channels here look much better than their digital garbage.

I've always wondered when Cox was really going to support HDTV. They've advertised it here pretty heavily, but they don't don't actually offer it. My wife works for Cox, and she hasn't actually found anyone at the local office that's seen it. I've talked to about two dozen people that have ordered it but keep getting a series of excuses from Cox. Considering how long it took before Cox could get analog channels working horribly (rather than not at all), I would guess it's going to be a decade or more before they support HDTV. It's really sad what a horrible company they are. They don't care, and they don't try. My wife really enjoys working there. She doesn't have to do a damn thing and can say anything(!) to a customer without getting in trouble or losing her job.

They even let installers get away with still installing RG-59. The criminals they hire sell the RG-6 they get from Cox then actually install RG-59. As I've seen several times, the installers will then offer to come back during lunch or after hours for extra cash in order to fix the problems that they created. My nephew is now scamming customers by cutting lines then getting cash out of them to connect it back. His supervisor knows he does it, because the supervisor takes a cut. Of course Cox doesn't give a damn. My wife has never heard of one of the installers losing their job over these types of things.

Tivo is the reason I chose DirecTV over cable

[tinrobot]

I love my Tivo and it's one of the main reasons I dumped Adelphia (that and Adelphia's abysmal service.)

If I ever went back to cable, the deal would have to include a Tivo that had the same features as DirecTV's implementation (including the ability to record two streams)...and no, I'm not into a standalone Tivo, mostly because of the subscription and the fact that it needs a separate receiver. Too complex. I like the simplicity of having two tuners built into the Tivo itself. DirecTV has a great solution.

Re:Tivo is the reason I chose DirecTV over cable

[Overzeetop]

Yeah, except that TiVo is already walking toward the gas chamber in the DirecTV world. I will probably drop DTV for, well, I have no idea, after they make me switch in a couple of years. I guess my only hope is a TiVo HD standalone / cablecard version and rabbit ears. (Okay, really a pair of Channelmaster 4221s). God, but I don't want to go back to Adelphia (evil...pure evil).

What I want is SA features on DTVs network. Oh, and world peace. Is that too much to ask?

Re:Tivo is the reason I chose DirecTV over cable

[CrazyMik]

What I think is funny, is the suggestion that people would switch from satellite if COX has the real TIVO. Hello, all I know is I switched to DTV as soon as it became cheaper than Cable, like Cable is going to get cheaper. Right, and pigs fly.

I now have the DTV DVR (non TIVO) and while it isn't perfect, the UI could use some work as my old Hughes reciever had lots of better features, it is really nice. It also seems pretty stable.

So, screw cable. I get tired of businesses that screw people for years complain about getting shafted (record companies anyone?).

Makes sense, sort of

[Lead Butthead]

Despite what misgiving people may have about tivo, it's be around for some time and is generally considered "stable." Cable companies that has been producing their own DVR probably discovered that it will cost them less to license software from tivo than hiring a crew to develope and maintain their own.

Err... What about ReplayTV

[Mr.Ziggy]

Why doesn't ReplayTV ever get bundled?

ReplayTV, perviously SonicBlue, has always come with an ethernet port. It doesn't need a phone line to update if you have a broadband connection, and you can watch or backup your shows from your computer on the LAN.

Re:Err... What about ReplayTV

[jandrese]

ReplayTV made a name for itself by not caving into content producer demands (30 second skip on by default for example). As a result, they're a pariah in the industry. That's why you'll never see them bundled with your cable company box.

I don't care

[TheKubrix]

I'm a customer of Cox Cable and ordered their DVR as soon as they came out. I love it. It does everything I need and has a great menu, all the options I need and I love the preview window while I browse the menus.

I'll admit that I havn't really played with a tivo, and I'm sure there are many services that it has which I might like, but honestly, I'm very busy and Cox's DVR does everything I want, anything more would add to the indulgence.

What I WOULD like to see from Cox is an improvement to their video on demand. Its flaky at best. The few times that I tried to order a movie from them, the movie died out and no one from their side could figure it out and I've given up from doing that again, which sucks because the convienance is incredible. I don't have time to go to blockbuster/hollywood video (actually I long since gave up on them for many reasons). And I loved using netflix, but now I don't have time to watch as money movies as they send me, so its a waste. I just want to pick a movie every now and then and just pay for it, and video on demand is exacly that.

Before Cox decides on switching Tivo (can't wait for the price to increase, joy), they need to fix what they already have.

Re:I don't care

[tompatman]

I'm a Comcast customer and can tell you that they're the ones who should be trying to strike a deal with Tivo. I have a Motorola DVR and while I love the functionality of the service itself, the box sucks. Never have I seen a product so heavily littered with obvious software bugs make it to market.

Just using it for an hour will show glaring RTOS flaws, such as buffer underruns causing the video/audio to freeze, lockup issues, slow response to remote commands (on the order of seconds). There are many other bugs a 5th grader could have documented after playing with it for a week.

I can only assume that comcast wanted to get a competing service to its customers as quickly as possible, I can't envision any other reason that Motorola would allow this steaming pile crap out the door.

Re:I don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

You might want to have them check your signal strength. I had major problems with VoD till they came out and said my signal was below normal operating levels!

Thank God.

[Thad Boyd]

I have a Cox DVR box -- the infamous Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 -- and it's an epic-level piece of crap. (I've heard that in some locales they offer a much better box.) The interface is barebones, the features are limited and often don't work at all, it frequently fails to record shows I tell it to, and the first one I got died this past week and had to be replaced. I've been planning to switch to TiVo as soon as I can afford it anyway; if Cox is willing to help me do that with the service I already have then that's the best-case outcome for them and for me. The only loser here is Scientific Atlanta, who richly deserves it.

A Deal that's No Deal

[Nom du Keyboard]

Cox were to offer digital cable service with a TiVo branded DVR for about the same price as you are currently paying for satellite service each month, how likely would you be to switch from satellite TV to Cox cable that featured this TiVo branded DVR service?

What is the incentive besides the TiVo name? I don't see it. It's a deal that's no real deal. Is this a real Slashdot question, or a marketing survey for Cox?

My switch point would be (and I don't live in a Cox area, but do receive satellite w/DVR right now) would be all the selected channels I currently want to receive, bundled DVR, all at a savings of $9.95 over my current service.

Besides, isn't TiVo the brand that removed 30-second forward skip, forces you to watch commercials, and auto-deletes programs?

Better make that a $19.95 savings over satellite to interest me.

Re:A Deal that's No Deal

[JQuick]

Besides, isn't TiVo the brand that removed 30-second forward skip, forces you to watch commercials, and auto-deletes programs?

Wow! How do you pack so much misinformation in one sentence?

You can enable 30 second skip on all models they have ever sold.

Tivo has never forced anyone to watch commercials.

If your Tivo is out of disk space it will remove the oldest recording that it is allowed to delete and reuse that space. If all of your recordings are marked "Keep until I delete" it will warn you (in advance) that it might not be able to record a scheduled program unless you delete some things.

Re:A Deal that's No Deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Short answer, no.

30 Second Skip is there, you just have to enable it.
My Tivo has never forced me to watch commercials.
It has auto-delete based on disk space need requirements, but you can also tell it to keep things forever.

The best hardware site for the Tivo hacker

[DebianDog]

Older Tivo?
Slow Interface?
No network connectivity?

These guys have the kits and instructions even -my- Dad could follow.

9th Tee Tivo Upgrades

I switched to satellite for TiVo

[tgibbs]

I switched from cable to DirecTV specifically for their dual tuner HD TiVo. I've been happy with it, but DirecTV has done a really lousy job of supporting TiVo, not implementing any of the advances TiVo has made with their stand-alone systems and not providing any TiVo-branded upgrade path for their new MPEG-4 broadcasts.

I'd switch back to cable in a heartbeat if I could get a dual tuner HD TiVo. My experience with non-TiVo PVRs has been fairly negative. I don't have Cox in my area, but I understand that the cable provider who holds the local monopoly (Comcast) will also be supporting TiVo in the future, and I'm also interested in TiVo's new cablecard based HD PVRs.

Re:I switched to satellite for TiVo

[nsayer]

The TiVo they showed at CES this year - dual tuner HD with cablecard - may get me to switch to cable from satellite. I don't particularly trust the cable companies to not screw with the feature set of a 'captive' TiVo, having been burned by DirecTV already. But with Cablecard, I don't *have* to trust them. And I was led to believe that it would support both cablecard and antenna input, so I also don't have to trust the cable company to not recompress the snot out of the local channels.

Of course, it's vapor until proven otherwise, but I am watching and waiting.

uhh ... so?

[nuzak]

What on earth made this or front-page newsworthy? That it mentions TiVo somewhere?

Yes they run Linux -- Get over it.

Thats a tough one

[Lokni]

The key thing though is "at a similar price to satellite." How about working on getting down to a similar price as their competition? I am paying $40 MORE with Cox than I was with Time Warner, for the exact same services. On top of that, the Cox service is of poorer quality(HD channels are compressed heavily), the DVR is harder to use and is significantly slower than the Time Warner dvr-box of the exact same model. Regardless of what DVR box they use, I think I would still rather go with DirecTV

Short term good but long term bad for TiVo?

[MS_leases_my_soul]

I love my TiVo. I had a Series 1 that I hacked to the gills before I sold it and went with the Series 2. Years later, I run a media server with Galleon on it and have everything stable enough to pass the WAF and KSF - Wife Acceptance Factor and Kid Survivability Factor. I gladly pay my monthly subscription for the very factor that I believe in TiVo and want to give them my recurring revenue versus a one-time payment.

I see a possible future for TiVo. I can download vblogs today, re-encode them to MPEG2 using VLC player, and hang them out on a share on the media server. I watch most of the vblogs on my TV now. Thanks to an RSS feed to the cartoons in the internet archive; the kids occasionally download an old superman cartoon and watch it. They didn't think twice about the concept of asking for a show, waiting for it to download, and then having it whenever they want it. This could be the future of TiVo.

Somewhere in a lab, TiVo has to be playing with TiVo Desktop with built-in torrent ability. If TiVo Desktop could do torrents, TiVo could have a new revenue stream by allowing content providers to register their content with TiVo. TiVo would host the tracker and desktop would download and share. Before you could play the video, you would need to download a key from TiVo. Bingo - instant subscription video. If TiVo also added the ability to insert custom commercials into the video, that would be all the better. You don't have to pay for the subscription, but you can't fast forward through the commercials. If the commercials were given to me based on my demographics and I had the ability to thumbs down any commercial I did not like, I would go for that!

TiVo embracing IPTV could change the face of "television". Anyone with a decent camera and a cast could create content with the possibility of a profit. Independent TV would spread as fast as cheap digital cameras have spread independent film! The old 500 channels analogy would become a joke.

But I don't think this will ever happen. Why? Because of the players TiVo is cutting deals with. Hey, I understand why they are doing it -- they have to pay the bills today! But once the deal is done, I don't think Cox and Comcast are going to appreciate TiVo pulling eyeballs away from cable TV to get their video broadband through TiVo. Then again, maybe this is a two-way hedge. Maybe the cable companies are seeing where IPTV *could* go and are putting a backup plan in place where they are still the pipe the video flows through.

All I can say is that the technology is not there today. If everything we are told about the TiVo 3 is true, I think we would only be a bittorrent enabled version of TiVo Desktop away from the start of something huge, but just like DIRECTV would not enable the HMO functionality for the DirecTiVo, I don't see cable companies being too keen on losing viewers (and thus ad revenue) to someone who needs them to survive.

Re:Short term good but long term bad for TiVo?

[e40]

Right the f**k on. (I can't believe this comment is stuck at 4.) If they did this, it would be revolutionary and would certainly be a killer app for TV... for millions of us.

Am I Special?

[sottitron]

I am a Cox subscriber who has an external TiVo and I would jump at the chance to have a TiVo from Cox. Right now I have two boxes (the TiVo and a digital cable box) and I have even contemplated dumping my digital service so that my TiVo becomes my tuner. I don't really watch alot of the channels above 99 anyways...

Would you like to take a survey?

[uvsc_wolverine]

So is this Ask Slashdot part of the Cox survey?

Comcast DVR vs. TiVO

[wardk]

I have both.

the TiVo just works.

the comcast DVR is possessed by demons. hit FF? delayed, may work. frustrated, don't hit it again or sometime in the future you'll be FFing in double, perhaps triple time. STOP. maybe. hit it again. no? then hit stop. then restart.

and the Comcast INTERFACE? Developed by people who HATE other people. it's designed TO frrustrate, especially someone who has used something that works, like the TiVO.

I would LOVE for Comcast to switch to a working DVR. please.

I use the COX PVR

[XMilkProject]

I actually prefer the cox PVR. First of all it is cheap, but most importantly, it offers features not yet available with any tivo. (Am I wrong here?)

My cox PVR can record two shows simultaneously in HD... I don't even think TIVO makes a model that can record a single HD signal yet, although the upcoming TIVO will have all of these features.

The cox box isn't as feature rich as a tivo, it just has basic recoding and scheduling ability, HDMI outputs, and dual HD tuners. Also a very convienent button is available on the remote to quickly cycle between different aspect ratios, which is helpful for going between HD and SD

Most importantly, it is all integrated so I don't need some IR blaster to tell the Tivo to change channels, and I am able to fully take advantage of all the programming in the On-Demand section. Oh, and the tv guide is much easier to use that Tivo's silly translucent backwards-pivoted table.

A dissapointing feature is the restriction placed on the HDMI output, that keeps it from working with my reciever for rights management reasons.

Re:I use the COX PVR

[doughrama]

All your points are valid and reasonable. The HD Tivo's that DirecTV sells do have dual HD tuners along with a OTA HD decoder (not sure techincally how it works) but what it means is that you can plug an antenna into HD Tivo and watch the HD channels that are broadcast OTA. Those OTA channels get intergrated into the Tivo guide. From an enduser perspective it's totally seamless.

Re:I use the COX PVR

[mparker762]

I've had the DirecTV HD Tivo for nearly a year now after upgrading from an old series 1 unit. It can definitely record two HD signals at once, and it has a "ratio" button (upper left of the remote) for flipping through the various aspect ratios. It also has multiple options for viewing the guide, including a more normal format for the guide (although we stuck with the old TiVo guide format since we were already used to it).

Why wasn't Tivo patented?

[kidtwist]

Tivo is certainly more deserving of a patent more than say, Amazon's one-click button, so why wasn't it patented? Or was it? I'm not saying I love patents or anything but since the patent system exists it seems like they would I have taken advantage of it. They should be raking in the dough instead of struggling to survive.

I would switch, if...

[meadowsr]

...you give me the same features as my DirecTiVo has now, with the addition of HD capability.

Currently, I do not have HD, but I really want it. However, I feel like TiVo and DirecTV are in a pissing contest, and I'm the one getting wet.

And the winner is ...

[Anonymous Coward]

mythtv !!!

My thoughts on PVC

[Descalzo]

PVC is the way to go. I have been using PVC for irrigation since I was 12, and while aware of the problems (if that purple stuff gets in your clothes it ain't coming out), it's far better than the alternatives. We did some sprinklers for my granny, and we didn't use PVC, and it was a pain. PVC offers superior durability for a reasonable cost, and it is so easy to glue. The only drawbacks are flexibility and it's a pain in the butt to cut.

Re:My thoughts on PVC

[Anti_Climax]

The flexability of PVC can definitely be a blessing or a curse. If you're having problems cutting PVC for a sprinkler system though, you aren't using the right tool

Re:My thoughts on PVC

[rthille]

The best part of slashdot when when comments like this are +5 Insightful!

I like the Cox DVR!

[LTRDR]

I have two of the Cox DVRs in my home, and would like to know how Tivo could be any better. The Cox system is easy to use, records two shows simultaneously, or records one while you are watching something else, and you can watch one recorded program while it is recording another.. It has search by date and or title, etc. What does Tivo offer that is above that?

ridin' spinnaz

[Anonymous Coward]

also cox

Scientific Atlanta vs Motorola

[alaloom]

The Scientific Atlanta (now Cisco) box that Cox uses is pretty amazing imho. Tivo might be slightly better in somethings, but I would not pay a pennie more for it. It could be worst, you could be stack with Comcast and their awful Motorola box. Boy, do those suck or what! Comcast inhereted AT&T's obsession with Motorola boxes for some reason. Every Motorola (formally known as General Instument I believe) digital box I have ever encountered was a miserable failure. Motorola should do all of us a favor and close their cable box division down.

Re:Scientific Atlanta vs Motorola

[zakezuke]

The Scientific Atlanta (now Cisco) box that Cox uses is pretty amazing imho. Tivo might be slightly better in somethings, but I would not pay a pennie more for it. It could be worst, you could be stack with Comcast and their awful Motorola box. Boy, do those suck or what! Comcast inhereted AT&T's obsession with Motorola boxes for some reason. Every Motorola (formally known as General Instument I believe) digital box I have ever encountered was a miserable failure. Motorola should do all of us a favor and close their cable box division down.

Keep in mind that there are many boxes offered by Motorola... and you might just be thinking of the 68000 based ones which were the first to be released to support Digital Cable. The newer ones sport cable modems, support hard drives, and of corse firewire... though not having HDTV I can't say I have met one with firewire onboard. Here is an advert for the Motorola DVR box service.

While I appricate the opinion that Sci-Atlanta boxes are better than their Motorola counterparts... it would be nice to know how they are better. Those like me who have never met a Sci-Atlanta box would be most interested.

Besides, in theory you can buy your own damn cablebox and jack it into your cable network.

Re:Scientific Atlanta vs Motorola

[tgibbs]

My sister has a Scientific Atlanta 8000 box. I was amazed by how poorly designed it is. The remote is a disaster. It is covered with buttons, yet does less than the simple TiVo remote manages to do with just a few buttons. For example, to page through screens in the Guide, you need to use separate page up/down buttons. The TiVo simply lets the channel rocker do double-duty as a page command. The SA box needs separate A, B, C buttons (which make it hard to find a good third party remote to replace the crappy manufacturer's remote) to schedule a program; the TiVo handles it all much more efficiently using just the joypad and the select button. On almost any TiVo screen, joypad left backs you out of the current screen, while joypad right gives you more detail on the selected item. And if you get lost, you can always hit the big TiVo button to jump to the main menu. This consistency of interface makes it incredibly intuitive. The TiVo remote has an innovative diamond arrangement of transport keys, with the most used button--pause--large and centrally located, with fast forward and reverse on either side, Play above, and slow motion below. This is the best control arrangement I've found on any remote. And when you fast forward, it automatically corrects for reaction time and jumps back a little when you hit play.

The other big failing I noticed with the SA box was that it had no real search capability, while on the TiVo it is trivial to set it up to automatically capture any show with particular actors, director, title, or specific words in the description.

Re:Scientific Atlanta vs Motorola

[Duhavid]

I disagree on the UI elements. The joypad is nicer,
but it is not more intuitive. It took me a while to
figure all that out. The SA system does have more
buttons, and is more "clunky" but the affordances are
better. I have pretty consistently had a harder time
finding some piece of functionality on the Tivo, until
I have learned the Tivo way.

I have both a DirectTivo, and an SA8300.

Que the "you must be an idiot" posts in 3.. 2.. 1..

Re:Scientific Atlanta vs Motorola

[Anonymous Coward]

Que the "you must be an idiot" posts in 3.. 2.. 1..

You must be an idiot, because that word is spelled "cue".

This is good....

[Chanc_Gorkon]

This is a good thing and I don't know why it has not been done already. I would purchase it in a heartbeat. Tivo's are better then the Scientific Atlanta DVR's. It's ALMOST like the iPod except noone really has a ready made DVR that's better.

Not surprising since the COX DVR sucks balls

[Anonymous Coward]

nt

Slow and clunky?

[tomzyk]

I can also record 2 shows at once, which I understand Tivo has just come up with?

I've had my DirecTiVo for almost 3 years now and it has always had this capability. (and from what I heard before I bought it, it had this functionality long before then too.)

Not only can you record 2 different channels at the same time, you can watch a third [previously recorded] show at the same time as recording those 2 different channels as well.

As for the "boops"... I got used to it after a day or two. It's really not that annoying, but I'm sure there's a way to disable the sound-effect if you hack your TiVo (which you have to do anyways if you want to add in more harddrive space).

The guide is slow? What model TiVo have you been looking at that has a slow channel guide? If there is any delay, it still pops up in less than a second. At least on my machine.

As for the PIP... well, I guess I never really understood that part. If it can record 2 channels, I'd expect it to be able to output 2 channels> Maybe they didn't put in 2 coax outputs because they didn't want people to use it as a receiver for 2 different televisions. *shrug*

I would totally switch

[Synic]

Since DirecTV is ditching TiVo I would totally switch if they plan on using the dual tuner cablecard HDTV TiVo's, or something similar in feature set w/ the TiVo software.

Would you invest in TiVo?

[spudchucker]

Just curious if any of you would invest in this company? I'm looking to get into tech again, and TiVo seems buy outable. (The yahoo stock chat room for TiVO is useless)

TiVo is better

[Treacle Treatment]

We tried the COX box for a while and it wasn't very good. TiVo is much better. I would switch if I had the chance. We are on COX already.

Re:Now way, unless I could purchase it, and it was

[Enderandrew]

The HD-Tivo boxes run about $700. I'd rather rent it for $5 a month than pay $700 to hack it. I don't need a web interface, and we've never filled the HD. We delete what we watch, and if I really want to keep a TV show I download it to my laptop and burn it to DVD, or purchase the show on DVD at Best Buy.

Sounds like another Cox and bull story

[wcrowe]

But I'd like to believe this, since I have both the laughably useless Cox DVR and a wonderful, yet not-digital-cable-ready TiVO.

Cox DVR from a user point of view

[chiller2]

I decided to give the Cox free for 3 months DVR trial a go and liked what I saw. That isn't to say it was without problems, which I'll detail below.

The unit in my market (OK) was a Motorola DCT6412. It has dual tuners, a 120GB HDD and HDTV support.

The first unit lasted only a month or so before the output would lock up. Initially it could be fixed by to a different channel and then back again but eventually it got too annoying. It would also reboot itself randomly. It got rather warm even with plenty of ventilation.

The second unit has been much better. It gets warm still, and the fan inside lets out a high pitched whine which although sometimes annoying isn't a show stopper. If you power off and on again it won't do it again for a couple of days. The analogue, digital and digital HD station playback have been perfectly acceptable.

The unit is loaded with ports, including 10/100 Ethernet, firewire and USB. I've never actually checked for output, mainly because the nearest PC with enough umph to deal with the signal is at the other end of the house. However I have read on various forums that the firewire port outputs raw data that you can capture with a couple of apps.

There are various engineer only menus you can get to which detail the specs, temperature, signal strength, etc even down to HDD brand, model and serial (mine's a Seagate).

Sometimes it'll forget to record a programme but this is rare, and easily fixable.

All in all, since the 2nd unit, I've been fairly happy with the Motorola.

Another Cox clusterfark in the making

[suitepotato]

I or my family have been a customer of Cox Cable for something like thirty years now. I've seen their complete range of stupid. I've seen their complete range of brilliance. I prefer the brilliance.

Stupid: letting installers user RG-59, refusing to do simple maintenance of the plant, etc.

Smart: upgrading to 15x2Mbps DOCSIS2, PVR, high-def, VoD, more channels than Dish or Direct, etc.

Stupid-to-be: changing to Tivo, going along with ending net neutraility and throttling of traffic at whim, etc.

Smart-to-be: upgrading to 20+Mbps both ways on cable modem, more VoD channels, even more digital channels, etc.

I want smart, not stupid. Given that I pay for the top video and modem packages and one phone line with two dvrs and two standard digital boxes at a rate of almost $200 a month (well worth it compared to dish, I know, I performed many hundreds of installations of each DBS service), I think smart is something they owe me for putting up with thirty years of mixed in stupid.

So if ANYONE at Cox Corp is paying attention: NO F'ING WAY DO I WANT TIVO. STICK TO THE MOTOROLA DVRS USED IN MY SYSTEM. THEY ROCK LIKE NO TOMORROW.

Related to TiVo lawsuit?

[tgibbs]

I wonder if this is related to TiVo's recent patent victory. Cable companies may be figuring that if they are going to be paying royalties to TiVo anyway, perhaps it would be to their advantage to offer their customers the real thing instead of a second-rate clone.

Oh yeah!! (my kid is better than yours contest)

[0110011001110101]

Well I have a fetus (3 months, 6 days, 14 hours so far) growing in my wifes uterus... and it can pause, rewind, fast-forward and even add to favorites with my TiVo. So your 4 year old can SUCK IT!

All kidding aside, my 4 year old can operate our TiVo scarily well, although she also seems to have no problems operating my DasKeyboard that's connected to my computer either (no letters on keys). So maybe TiVo operation aint sayin much!

I would...

[cyber-dragon.net]

I recently tried to get DirectTV but wanted thier TiVo DVR. They informed me they had one that was "upgraded" which according to the person in India I was talking to meant it had 100gb HD rather than 80GB. This was thier argument on why I should use thier peice of junk which I have seen and does not compare instead of TiVo which I LIKE. I informed them I was likely going to just put a 250gb HD in it anyway and so please give me the TiVo version and they refused.

If Cox can offer me a TiVo DVR I will happily go with them instead of DirectTV soley for that reason. I would rather have satelite but my desire for a satelite is vastly overshadowed by my desire for TiVo.

As it is I have no cable or satalite because I refuse to watch TV on thier schedule, and I want the TiVo DVR experience. A stand alone TiVo is not an option as digital cable and digital satelite require a seperate box to enforce DRM so the quality of recording on the DVR goes way down. By trying to force me to do it "thier way" all these companies have done is ensure I will do without. It is simply not worth it.

The minute a company offers to let me do it the way -I- want instead of trying to enforce thier way they will get my money. If Cox does this TiVo move they will be allowing what I want and will get my money simply to say STUFU to DirectTV for dumping what I thought was an ideal solution.

I'd be all over it

[Anonymous Coward]

If it could meet or beat my current solution (MythTV+plugins) on features and my current provider (OTA broadcast) on price.

Current Cox DVR user...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have the patience of a Saint, The SA8000 and SA8300 SD DVRs are great.

Recently upgraded to Cox Digital (free Stars and ShowTime for 3 months) and added the DVR service.

The 1st SA8000 box seemed to work fine, until we attempted to use the DVR functions. All recordings were laggy and pixilated.

Went the the Cox office and got a replacement SA8000... When I got home, the unit wouldn't even power up. Seeing where the patience comes in yet?

Went back to Cox. Explained my frustration. Was given a 3rd SA8000. Asked that they find a SA8300, that I'd heard they were more reliable. Cox rep (very attractive lady) said no problem, when one came in I'd get a call.

The 3rd SA8000 has worked flawlessly! (knock on wood)

I've heard the SA8300HD-DVRs are also flakey, and the eSATA port may or may not see attached expansion storage or programs recorded on eSATA drives may be laggy and pixilated like they were on my first SA8000.

This thread may be informative:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=51 6559

When you find one that works, the SA8x00 boxes Cox has seem to be great. At this point, I wouldn't want to start experimenting with any new combos, Tivo or not. If it aint broke don't fix it!

TOTALLY SWITCH DEPENDING on Dual Tuner Tivo Option

[ryanw]

I would switch in a heartbeat IF and ONLY IF the Tivo was a DUAL Tuner Tivo. I already use COX for internet but I CHOOSE to pay more for COX internet because I want to continue using the DirecTV Dual Tuner Tivo that I have grown to love. A single tuner Tivo doesn't cover the real needs of the lame network programming. They all try to compete with the best timeslots. Without the dual tuner you can't get all the main shows recorded.

But if they were to make the dual tuner TIVO happen with Cox' service. I would be there in a heartbeat and give up DirecTV.

Guess i'm lucky?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow...

I guess I'm just damn lucky to have one that works (knocks on wood).

My 1st SA8000 was a flakey POS that would record everything in a very laggy pixilated way, returned it the next day. The 2nd unit wouldn't power on at all. 3rd unit has worked perfectly. (again with a hard knock on wood).

It isn't that these units are all crap. It's that there are defective units that Cox, Comcast, etc refuse to take off of the "market". That would cost $$$ after all! You return it and it goes to the next customer in line. It's just SNAFU and poor cust service I've come to expect from these a$$holes. On picking up my 3rd unit I told them that if I had to return it, it would be smashed into itty bitty pieces with a sledgehammer in their parking lot, right after I grabbed a reported out of the local newspaper office across the street. :-)

What we need is to get together and contact our state level reps/criters and get laws in place that returned hardware *must* go back to SA, Moto, etc for refurbishing if returned by a customer. This would prevent the defect recycling that's causing 99% of the problems people see with these units.

I won't hold my breath, but that is what is needed at this point.

Re:Guess i'm lucky?

[fishbowl]

>I guess I'm just damn lucky to have one that works (knocks on wood).

My complaints are all about the "correct" operation of a fully functional unit, not a defective one. At best, there are severe usability problems with Atlanta Scientific DVR that Cox sells. I don't actually have a problem with the build quality of the unit, or with its reliability, at all. I just find that it has some extremely annoying UI design problems.

Funny != Insightful

[Drogo007]

How the hell does something obviously intended as funny get modded insightful? Even if you missed the whole humorous link to the GP's misuse of PVC (instead of PVR), the post would, at best, be Offtopic...

*sigh* This is the problem of using the general (posting) public for moderation.

To quote George Carlin: "Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize half the people are DUMBER THAN THAT!"

Re:Funny != Insightful

[SydShamino]

If I recall correctly, posts modded as Funny don't net the poster Karma. The idea, of course, is that you shouldn't gain Karma for cracking jokes occasionally.

However, some moderators feel that those who lighten the mood and cheer up their day deserve Karma, so they moderate funny posts as Insightful or somesuch.

I expect that, in metamoderation, Insightful moderations on posts that aren't get swatted down. Those moderators would thus end up getting mod points less often, and the effect is mitigated.

Re:Funny != Insightful

[Babbster]

Perhaps what's needed is a "superfunny" moderation which would give karma credit to people who deserve it.

Obviously disqualified (and subject to said disqualification through metamoderation) would be items like "In Soviet Russia, recorder PVCs you!" or "Netcraft confirms TiVo PVC is dead."

Heh...

[Burgundy Advocate]

Or it could be that they simply don't want to get sued by TiVo...

COX HDPVR = JOKE

[n0w0rries]

I've had plenty of bad experiences with Cox's HD PVR. First, the problem with the subscription bug. If you turned your PVR off, it would not record shows in HD. Figured out what was happening is the PVR would power up, switch to the channel, and see the "you need to subscribe to this channel message". This message would then go away, and the show would come on. Well, the PVR didn't wait around for the message to go away, it said "Oh, you don't get this channel" and abort. If you turned the unit off, it would record maybe 30% of your HD shows. If you left it on, it would record probably 80% of your shows.

The second major issue was a design flaw. The box did not have adequate cooling, so it would overheat. When it overheated you would get pixelation, sound would drop, and/or video would drop completely. Later units had a fan on the bottom that didn't help much. I had a unit on a shelf by itself and it still overheated. There's no way you could put the unit on a stack of electronics (ie: tuner, dvd player, HTPC, etc).

I had them replace the unit probably 5-6 times before I finally moved to a different area (Time Warner). Haven't had any problems with their HD PVR--it runs on different hardware but the same software.

So I'd say it's a good thing for COX--they can have a PVR that works for a change! I wouldn't pay more for tivo though.

Re:A Deal that's No Deal - 1 Win, 1 Loss

[Nom du Keyboard]

You can enable 30 second skip on all models they have ever sold.

Which used to be standard, and now they hide against the day it can be removed altogether.

If your Tivo is out of disk space it will remove the oldest recording that it is allowed to delete and reuse that space.

You got me there. I meant to refer to the "feature" where TiVo will now refuse to record some programs at all if it sees the proper "flag" in the broadcast stream. My DVR still records everything I ask of it without question.

One less box in my TV stand I guess

[hpj]

I currently have Cox service, but since their PVR kind of sucks I still have a Tivo box for my PVR needs. I would definately prefer to use the cable box directly (Especially since you can usually skip one encoding/decoding step by using this now that we have digital TV transmissions).

Think of the Tinkerers

[a_greer2005]

I am not saying leasing is a bad deal, I am just saying that it should not be the ONLY deal; some of us like to tinker, bolt in an extra HDD, try a 3rd party software mod, add or unlock features (ala 30 sec skip) and so on

Why should tinkerers be treated like second class citezens? we arent stealing HBO (which oddly enough I actually have, and PAY FOR) or PPV events; we just want to tinker!

Think of it like a car; want to get back and forth to work/achool/church and that is it, then leasing may be a good deal; want to drop the suspention, add lighting effects, a super-charger and cold-air-induction, you'd better buy.

As a Cox employee...

[Flimzy]

I would favor the switch. I think the end result would be a higher quality product for the customer (and fewer calls to the tech support call center where I work). Our DVRs are constantly undergoing bug fixes and feature additions (which add more bugs to later be fixed). I would prefer to support a more mature product... and would also prefer to use one!

wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand this. I have cox. I have their DVR service. The box is a motorola. It records two channels at time, and it does it an HD. Tivo doesn't do this (without having to jump through a few hoops). It has options to record series just like Tivo. The only problem I've had with it is that it doesn't record the shows right and I end up having to manually add a time a day and tell it to repeat weekly. I'd rather they just fix the motorola box. Tivo doesn't do HD

Re:wtf?

[cqnn]

Tivo does do HD. Or at least Tivo can work with Cox to offer a box that does everything your current DVR does, with Tivo functionality on top.

Re:I would not switch.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hasn't anyone read about TiVo removing the ability for users to fast forward through commercials? I mean isn't this the most important part of a DVR? Why would anyone pay for a service that would allow them to record without being able to fast forward past commercials? Wasn't this the whole reason TiVo became popular in the first place?

Add to this the fact that there will be a time limit placed on how long the recorded content will be "saved" and the ability to download the content to be watched on other media or moved to portable dvd player to watch on a long trip will be removed and what you have is a glorified VCR Player.

Yes, the quality isn't quite as good, but for a far cheaper cost in the long run. Tivo and other services like it are a total waste of money.

Open Cable and TiVO

[grumling]

Later this year, Comcast will be rolling out TiVO's Open Cable software. It will use the existing DVRs. It will use the Open Cable specifications. Hopefully it won't have too many bugs. I doubt it will have any home networking stuff, but you never know. At the National Cable Television Association conference this year, Motorola showed off the ability to schedule recordings from your cell phone, and hinted at being able to watch content from the DVR as well. I'm sure COX (being somewhat more technologically advanced than Comcast) will also be offering UI choice.

From http://www.opencable.com/

"The OpenCable(TM) initiative, managed by the Advanced Platforms and Services group at CableLabs, began in 1997 with the goal of helping the cable industry deploy interactive services over cable. Like several other CableLabs projects, including DOCSIS® and PacketCable(TM), OpenCable(TM) provides a set of industry standards. These OpenCable standards help achieve the goal of interactive services by meeting three key objectives:

      1. Define the next-generation digital consumer device.
      2. Encourage supplier competition.
      3. Create a retail hardware and software platform.

As such, the OpenCable project has two key components: a hardware specification and a software specification. The hardware specifications describe both one-way and two-way digital cable-ready "host" devices that are interoperable with cable systems throughout the U.S., thus creating a retail solution for consumer electronics products for cable. The software specification of the OpenCable project, called the OpenCable Application Platform (OCAP(TM)), solves the problem of proprietary operating system software, thereby creating a common platform for interactive television applications and services. Interactive (bi-directional) OpenCable products require an OCAP middleware stack, but the OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver (OCUR) does not."

Of course, I don't think just anyone will be able to load up an application for the settop box, but it is a lot better than the bad old days we're living through now. From what I've read, there will be oppertunities to write small applets for settops. However, the cable companies might just do what Verizon Wireless does and lock out anyone who doesn't pay them for get it now access.

Good Paid Media Services

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlike Satellite and Cable TV, the main advantage to satellite radio (XM and Sirius) is that it is commercial free. I could fiddle with CDs/iPod, or listen to the crappy ClearChannel radio stations around here that have 15 minutes of ads per hour. Rather, I fork over a little dough each month to enjoy a commercial free stream of good music from up-and-coming artists I would never hear of otherwise.

My $.02.

I'd dump Directv's HD-Lite (TM) service

[toy4two]

After watching the picture quality go down and down with Directv I'd be happy to go back to cable (did I just say that). I really loved my old TIVO on Directv, but they dumped TIVO for their new HD-DVR (MPEG4) so now I have no intrest in their crippled non-tivo DVR that is planned out in June. Sunday Ticket was the only thing keeping me with Directv, but now I'd rather have my San Diego Padres in High Definition (COX bought the rights and wont' let Directv have them).

Observation

[KeeghanMacAllan]

I think the pertinent question is, how do the /. hordes find time to watch TV? Don't we all have Night Elf rogues that need levelling, or another LBRD run to do?

How about cost factor, and commercials

[tmannes]

It's interesting to me that virtually no one has touched on the fact that Satellite PVR requires NO monthly fees, unless you are renting one. Tivo wants $12.95 every month!!! For what??? What warrents paying a monthly fee to use a PVR??? I personally love my Satellite PVR, and have no interest in paying another $155.40 per year. That's on top of your original purchase price. Admitedly Tivo has a few advantages, but none that I'm willing to pay for personally. And if I'm forced to pay monthly service fees, then I damn well don't want them forcing me to watch commercials, while I'm skipping commercials on my Tivo/PVR. I hate commercials, and advertising in general as it has become so very pervasive. There are plenty of magazines that charge a hefty cover price, and yet the contents are nothing but paid advertising, much of it pretending to be informative articles. I just don't understand why our society accepts this... It doesn't save us money, it just makes the profit margins higher for these companies. Don't buy into those lies. I'll stick with the non-montly fee, non-commercial in your face, PVR from Satellite service.

Those cunts at Cox are screwing us!

[gatkinso]

I guess it is only to be expected....

This is Slashdot, right?

[baalz]

...Tivo is very hack friendly.

Here's a device that will pass the wife test, but you can also dig in just about as far as you'd like. Dunno about other DVRs, but it was quite easy to slap a monster HDD into my Tivo and give it an order of magnitude more recording time. There is also loads of stuff you can tinker with if you're so inclined.

Re:commercials

[freshfromthevat]

Tivo hasn't yet forced us to watch commercials. I have heard several times over the past 4 years that they would be doing so but so far it has not happened.