My bad. I must have mixed up the amounts from another article or it was in one of the comments. A key factor is that McKinon didn't cause the damage directly, it was what the DoD spent after the fact to lock down their "secure" network.
Thanks for the correction. $800,000 or millions, either way it sounds like the DoD has played up the amount to justify charging McKinon with some pretty nasty stuff.
Actually from what I've read most of the charges do seem a bit trumped up. The DoD is claiming millions of dollars in damages related to the "hack", which was little more than guessing some passwords. The big thing in Brittan is that if he was tried locally, as most legal experts seem to think should be the case, he might get a few weeks jail (time served), a fine and probation with restrictions on his use of computers during that time. The charges the DoD have brought against him carry minimum sentences of around 20 years per count.
Another factor is that he was in Brittan when he committed the offenses and their are some jurisdictional issues in the case as well. Add in that the US is trying to use an extradition treaty that basically allows the signatories to say "we want these people, we will not provide any evidence they are really guilty of anything, send them asap", the UK Parliament has ratified the treaty but the US Congress has not so its a bit unilateral giving the US power to extradite and prosecute a British citizen without giving any evidence as to their guilt.
Plus, the DoD has not guaranteed he would be tried in a civilian court. IIRCC they have indicated he might face a military court.
No one involved has claimed he is innocent, the question is whether the punishment will be Just.
Why is this even on Slashdot? So he pulled a prank on a police department, its not even an original one.
It doesn't mater "that everyone goes over the limit", it is law, don't like it work to change it. I don't like getting speeding tickets any more than the next person but when I see people going 40mph in a school zone or down a residential street with children around I would love to see some cameras in place. I have a friend who has lost members of his family to cars due to a casual disregard for the residential speed limit.
If you don't want to get a speeding ticket, don't speed. If you get caught, that is the breaks. You play, you pay.
They can talk to you but you don't have to answer beyond what is required by law, which does vary from location to location as you mentioned. I think the video mentions it as well but it has been awhile since I watched it so I'm not sure.
So check local laws.
And FYI, I have been to law school and studied criminal law along with some extra classes on police procedures. But since I never took the Bar you are right about the IANAL tag. So sorry to have mislead all the other posters.
This is a great intro to why you should never talk to police. You have to show ID but you do not have to answer any questions
Got this link off another/. story awhile back and bookmarked it because it is valid and useful.
The school still has to issue student IDs for other uses, discounts at stores and quick verifications of identity/status by campus security to name a couple. The students are still expected to have to have their ID cards with them so the school isn't really going to save any money doing this.
I have to agree with some of the other comments that this is likely a waste of money.
On a personnel note I would not want my children participating in this kind of program. I do think the tech is pretty cool but remember that once a thumbprint is compromised your SOL.
Upon reflection you do have a point, better security at the OS level may have prevented this. But as vivian pointed out the code in the application that actually makes the calls to the communication APIs of the OS should have had better security as well to prevent an app from making a call in the first place.
Unless the trojan contained the code to invoke the OS APIs directly (a possibility) it seems like there is grounds for both MS bashing, some choice comments about the inept mobile app coders and end users who install programs from questionable sources.
You are dead on with that. As much fun as it is for the/. community to say "oh look, another WINDOWS VIRUS!" and start bashing MS this is a screw up at the application level, not the OS.
Looks like I'm going to have to save my MS bashing comments for another day, bummer.
I'm certain there are many militant environmentalists who would consider a bullet to their heads to be an effective "cure". Those execs should be thanking $DEITY that, while they have little regard for the lives of others, those others do.
"but the middle of a recession isn't the best time to ask companies to upgrade core infrastructure that still works."
Actually that is the best time to upgrade or overhaul your IT systems. Employee count is at its lowest so the re-training costs are minimized, there is less activity with the databases/network servers so the switch overs to new software/database version can be done with minimized disruption. And when things start to pick up the company is ready to take advantage of new opportunities since everything is current and up to date or improved.
I've seen several companies who didn't do anything but cut their workforce when things got tough, the last two are still in the process of dying a slow death. One didn't put out anything new for years, they laid off most of their developers in '03 and were bought by Intel, the other doesn't even have an IT department anymore. They have some guy in the machine shop deals with any failures but nothing is getting improved or updated. I don't think the servers are even getting backed up anymore and I would not want to be them if the BSA comes calling.
"What version of Firefox will installs on Debian Potato/Woody?"
I seem to be missing your point. If the latest version of Firefox can install on Windows XP (a 10 year old OS as you point out), and is written well enough to adjust its API calls to whats available, why can't MS do the same with IE?
At a guess its because someone said "We are going to make our next version of IE only work on our latest OS, but put no effort into supporting our customers who can't/won't upgrade their OS even though we could." Since its obviously not an issue of whether or not it is possible to write a modern browser that works on a 10 year old OS, its a mater of them choosing not to.
Good idea. Unfortunately it would accomplish little if anything of value.
It does nothing to prevent this kind of issue.
It would not change the greed that prevents research from progressing.
Even if the owners were "removed" from the mater by a concerned psychopathy the patents would still exist and someone else would try to profit from them.
You should check out reply's I got from ByteSlicer, they were by far the best. It was pointed out that the first law of Thermodynamics would seem to preclude instant propagation since it would mean energy would be "leaking" out of the observable Universe and observations just don't support that. I still wonder if energy coming IN from outside the observable could be balance whats going out,thus preserving observed energy conservation.
And there is still a question about whether causality would be violated, I'm also not completely convinced there is a violation. Still thinking it through.
Your post has me thinking again. I realized I was in the mindset that gravity waves have infinite velocity and would be detected at all points within our universe simultaneously. But, as your analogy made me realize, a GW could still have a c+ velocity as long as it was not "instant", just really really fast.
I think I see a way causality and conservation can be preserved but still have c+ propagation of space-time stress/deformation. I have much to think about. I still think that Humanity has a very long way to go before we really understand the universe, in a few hundred years people will look back at General Relativity and M Theory the way we now look at Newtonian Physics, revolutionary for the time but not up to describing whats really going on. I mean lets face it, GR itself might allow information to propagate through different dimensions via wormholes, how would that affect causality and conservation?
Sidenote: inflation just posits that if the early universe expanded at c+ then it would explain the lack of significant variation in the cosmic background radiation. It shows that GR allows space-time to expand at FTL. It is in fact the very thing that made me start questioning gravity waves.
Slashdot Mirror
My bad. I must have mixed up the amounts from another article or it was in one of the comments. A key factor is that McKinon didn't cause the damage directly, it was what the DoD spent after the fact to lock down their "secure" network.
Thanks for the correction. $800,000 or millions, either way it sounds like the DoD has played up the amount to justify charging McKinon with some pretty nasty stuff.
Actually from what I've read most of the charges do seem a bit trumped up. The DoD is claiming millions of dollars in damages related to the "hack", which was little more than guessing some passwords. The big thing in Brittan is that if he was tried locally, as most legal experts seem to think should be the case, he might get a few weeks jail (time served), a fine and probation with restrictions on his use of computers during that time. The charges the DoD have brought against him carry minimum sentences of around 20 years per count.
Another factor is that he was in Brittan when he committed the offenses and their are some jurisdictional issues in the case as well. Add in that the US is trying to use an extradition treaty that basically allows the signatories to say "we want these people, we will not provide any evidence they are really guilty of anything, send them asap", the UK Parliament has ratified the treaty but the US Congress has not so its a bit unilateral giving the US power to extradite and prosecute a British citizen without giving any evidence as to their guilt.
Plus, the DoD has not guaranteed he would be tried in a civilian court. IIRCC they have indicated he might face a military court.
No one involved has claimed he is innocent, the question is whether the punishment will be Just.
He speeds.
Gets caught.
Complains.
Why is this even on Slashdot? So he pulled a prank on a police department, its not even an original one.
It doesn't mater "that everyone goes over the limit", it is law, don't like it work to change it. I don't like getting speeding tickets any more than the next person but when I see people going 40mph in a school zone or down a residential street with children around I would love to see some cameras in place. I have a friend who has lost members of his family to cars due to a casual disregard for the residential speed limit.
If you don't want to get a speeding ticket, don't speed. If you get caught, that is the breaks. You play, you pay.
They can talk to you but you don't have to answer beyond what is required by law, which does vary from location to location as you mentioned. I think the video mentions it as well but it has been awhile since I watched it so I'm not sure.
So check local laws.
And FYI, I have been to law school and studied criminal law along with some extra classes on police procedures. But since I never took the Bar you are right about the IANAL tag. So sorry to have mislead all the other posters.
This is a great intro to why you should never talk to police. You have to show ID but you do not have to answer any questions /. story awhile back and bookmarked it because it is valid and useful.
Got this link off another
Never talk to Police
In a nut shell, the police will take what ever you say and use it against you.
The school still has to issue student IDs for other uses, discounts at stores and quick verifications of identity/status by campus security to name a couple. The students are still expected to have to have their ID cards with them so the school isn't really going to save any money doing this.
I have to agree with some of the other comments that this is likely a waste of money.
On a personnel note I would not want my children participating in this kind of program. I do think the tech is pretty cool but remember that once a thumbprint is compromised your SOL.
Upon reflection you do have a point, better security at the OS level may have prevented this. But as vivian pointed out the code in the application that actually makes the calls to the communication APIs of the OS should have had better security as well to prevent an app from making a call in the first place.
Unless the trojan contained the code to invoke the OS APIs directly (a possibility) it seems like there is grounds for both MS bashing, some choice comments about the inept mobile app coders and end users who install programs from questionable sources.
Hammer, meet nail head.
/. community to say "oh look, another WINDOWS VIRUS!" and start bashing MS this is a screw up at the application level, not the OS.
You are dead on with that. As much fun as it is for the
Looks like I'm going to have to save my MS bashing comments for another day, bummer.
No, that would be perfect for a Windows virus.
Adds insult to injury, with a dash of salt.
You are free to do what you wish.
However I would say you are comparing primates to mushrooms, the two are not even on the same evolutionary branch.
To each their own. I hope you will still feel the same way when you have no privacy left.
"psychopathy is NOT curable"
Depends on what you consider "cured".
I'm certain there are many militant environmentalists who would consider a bullet to their heads to be an effective "cure". Those execs should be thanking $DEITY that, while they have little regard for the lives of others, those others do.
And yet you still have an account there.
I got fed up with FB months ago, "deactivated" the account to see if I missed it.
Haven't yet so I'll be deleting it Monday.(yes, I know about the petition).
Perhaps you should consider similar steps?
True, and so will copyright infringers.
Remember, file sharing is a civil issue, not criminal.
There was no theft of real property so calling downloaders "thieves" is legally inaccurate. At least where I live.
"... Voltage will suffer 'great and irreparable injury that cannot fully be compensated or measured in money."
Like the bad PR this kind of legal action will cause them?
Yeah, but Dolphin was piloting.
Don't forget the scantly clad teenage school girl ninjas!
"Wish Aero and indexing turned off it is still fairly peppy."
So, you turn off all the eye candy and resource hogs and its XP SP4?
I think you are over estimating the intelligence of those "imbeciles".
"but the middle of a recession isn't the best time to ask companies to upgrade core infrastructure that still works."
Actually that is the best time to upgrade or overhaul your IT systems. Employee count is at its lowest so the re-training costs are minimized, there is less activity with the databases/network servers so the switch overs to new software/database version can be done with minimized disruption. And when things start to pick up the company is ready to take advantage of new opportunities since everything is current and up to date or improved.
I've seen several companies who didn't do anything but cut their workforce when things got tough, the last two are still in the process of dying a slow death. One didn't put out anything new for years, they laid off most of their developers in '03 and were bought by Intel, the other doesn't even have an IT department anymore. They have some guy in the machine shop deals with any failures but nothing is getting improved or updated. I don't think the servers are even getting backed up anymore and I would not want to be them if the BSA comes calling.
"What version of Firefox will installs on Debian Potato/Woody?"
I seem to be missing your point. If the latest version of Firefox can install on Windows XP (a 10 year old OS as you point out), and is written well enough to adjust its API calls to whats available, why can't MS do the same with IE?
At a guess its because someone said "We are going to make our next version of IE only work on our latest OS, but put no effort into supporting our customers who can't/won't upgrade their OS even though we could." Since its obviously not an issue of whether or not it is possible to write a modern browser that works on a 10 year old OS, its a mater of them choosing not to.
Scoot over, my brain just joined yours in the gutter.
Funniest thing I've seen today, Thanks.
Is it just me or is that site WAY too dependent on Flash. It made more sense when I have noscript blocking the flash, it just puts up the logo.
Scoot over, my brain just joined yours in the gutter.
:)
Funniest thing I've seen today, thanks.
There appears to by a typo in your sig
"... host finally gives up dies."
Shouldn't there be an "and" in there?
Good idea. Unfortunately it would accomplish little if anything of value.
It does nothing to prevent this kind of issue.
It would not change the greed that prevents research from progressing.
Even if the owners were "removed" from the mater by a concerned psychopathy the patents would still exist and someone else would try to profit from them.
Patent reform, only real solution.
You should check out reply's I got from ByteSlicer, they were by far the best. It was pointed out that the first law of Thermodynamics would seem to preclude instant propagation since it would mean energy would be "leaking" out of the observable Universe and observations just don't support that. I still wonder if energy coming IN from outside the observable could be balance whats going out,thus preserving observed energy conservation.
And there is still a question about whether causality would be violated, I'm also not completely convinced there is a violation. Still thinking it through.
Your post has me thinking again. I realized I was in the mindset that gravity waves have infinite velocity and would be detected at all points within our universe simultaneously. But, as your analogy made me realize, a GW could still have a c+ velocity as long as it was not "instant", just really really fast.
I think I see a way causality and conservation can be preserved but still have c+ propagation of space-time stress/deformation. I have much to think about. I still think that Humanity has a very long way to go before we really understand the universe, in a few hundred years people will look back at General Relativity and M Theory the way we now look at Newtonian Physics, revolutionary for the time but not up to describing whats really going on. I mean lets face it, GR itself might allow information to propagate through different dimensions via wormholes, how would that affect causality and conservation?
Sidenote: inflation just posits that if the early universe expanded at c+ then it would explain the lack of significant variation in the cosmic background radiation. It shows that GR allows space-time to expand at FTL. It is in fact the very thing that made me start questioning gravity waves.
Thanks for the input, have a good one.