Slashdot Mirror
America Versus the UFO Hacker
Rob writes "Gary McKinnon, still suffering from Asperger's syndrome, depression, anxiety, and panic attacks, has one last chance to avoid extradition from the UK to the US to face charges of hacking into NASA and Pentagon computers in search of information on UFOs. Will the new UK government keep its word and help him avoid a savage punishment? The New Statesman has a survey of the history and McKinnon's prospects."
Just the fact that the US is pushing so hard for this makes people believe that the US government has UFOs and aliens.
Isn't that like saying still suffering from AIDS, Herpes, Diabetes, or Lou Gehrig's Disease?
A libertarian shat on my carpet once. Claimed the free market would sort it out. -Ford Prefect(8777)
Dude looks like an alien himself...
He wnats the info because he's an alien trying to catch a ride home. I mean seriously, just look at the picture.. He's totally a grey in disguise!
More seriously, why not work out a deal where he won't be stuffed in supermax?
I put on my robe and wizard hat..
He embarassed people, and made 'threats'
From TFA
McKinnon was surprised at how easy it was to enter the US networks. There were no firewalls and many government staff did not even have passwords. He left notes as he went, pointing out security deficiencies. One said: "US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days? It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand-down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels."
Will the new UK government keep its word and help him avoid a savage punishment?
But the UK government is punishing Savage by banning him from entering the country.
Everyone knows it is the NSA that keeps that data. Just ask your friendly local NSA operative, is there alien life. I always get, "We decline to comment on that subject at this time. All hail Kang."
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
He suffers from anxiety, depression and panic attacks? Exactly what people claim when they are suing for ridiculous amounts of money. Utterly impossible to prove or disprove, and plenty of doctors will probably accept a nice fee to testify either way.
I'm not saying that he doesn't suffer from these, but hearing it makes me roll my eyes and wonder if it's not just a sympathy act.
Didn't Roland Emmerich already demonstrate in the 1996 US documentary Independence Day that UFO's can successfully be hacked by introducing a computer virus into the mothership?
"What kind of music do pirates listen to?" -Paul Maud'dib
"Yeeeaaarrrrr n' Bee!!" -Stilgar, Leader of Sietch Tabr
I'm afraid that I have little sympathy for this guy. I do not think that breaking into computer systems is harmless play. If he'd actually gone to trial back when he was indicted, instead of fighting it for all these years, he's have gotten a minor sentence, very likely no prison time at all, and almost certainly would be out now.
I have no reason to believe these flamboyant claims that he's likely to be put away for a prison term of "seventy years;" this is bizarre hyperbole that has nothing to do with the way sentencing is actually done in the US.
Gary McKinnon's treatment at the hands of the bloodthirsty, subhuman U.S. government officials will be savage, just SAVAGE. Who will save this kind, generous, upstanding man of peace from the vicious fate he faces if this extradition is allowed to go through? See him quiver and tremble as he suffers the throes of Aspergers Syndrome! Can you not see how depressed and anxious the threat of prosecution is making him? What kind of monster would will such evil upon this defenseless man, who surly is guilty of nothing but a deep and heartfelt thirst for knowledge about our Grey brothers from the beyond?
Give me a break.
Breakfast served all day!
If he's convicted he gets to go to minimum security federal jail for probably 2-4 years. How is that savage punishment?
Aspergers is neither a cause of computer hacking nor an excuse for it. "Oh, a trial or jail will traumatize him" isn't a valid reason to not put someone on trial either in the US or in England.
This guy was misguided rather than intentionally malicious, but he misguided himself into a bunch of federal felonies. Aspergers doesn't change your ability to understand legal vs illegal acts.
Why doesn't NASA and the Pent get him to help them secure there systems rather then prosecute him. Wouldn't the best measure of justice be to make him protect the computers he broke into and hence stop any future break-ins?
It should be the people responsible for the military IT infrastructure facing court action. It's criminal that a defence system should be left so easily hackable that a lone nutter could access it.
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
Which will be what? Imprisonment? Well, that's too bad. Don't break into our computers, and you won't have that problem.
Guantanamo? That's a different matter.
Or is the allegation that US prisons are, in and of themselves, cruel and unusual punishment?
"His actions, according to US officials, caused networks to shut down, damaged computers and incurred costs of $800,000."
And I wonder how much they've spent on the power play of extraditing him instead of trying him in a British court?
It's political payback for McKinnon giving the pompous U.S. government and military a well-deserved black eye.
haven't you seen the x-files? the govt acts this way to make people believe in UFOs, when in reality, the truth is far stranger than flying metal discs and little green men.
x-files is not entertainment, it is the truth!
I want to believe!
Face it: it this was really true they would have sent a wet-worker after him rather than prosecuting.
If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
Easy fix to this: he just needs to claim Israeli citizenship and he can do whatever the hell he wants without repercussion.
Prison (which depends on violence) qualifies as a savage punishment when the criminal is non-violent. I don't need a lawyer to tell me this. Human nature says so.
Did I just claim that over half of all US prison sentences are savage? You're damn right I did.
If I'd never heard of McKinnon, and someone told me the whole story start to finish, I'm pretty sure that I'd say "just try him in Britain--you're wasting more money extraditing him than the crime is worth."
But all I've learned about MacKinnon I've learned from /., where an Aspie cracker is a demigod, and a Rorschach blot for the average /. reader to project all his lunatic fears of a fascist/socialist/totalitarian US gov't. It's like with Hans Reiser, who couldn't possibly be guilty, he's just misunderstood--right up to the point where Reiser led police to the body and said "that's where I dumped the ex-wife that I stabbed to death."
So: Fry MacKinnon, just to hear the howls of outraged geeks everywhere who imagine that they're a persecuted minority.
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
I thought it was Jeff Goldblum that hacked the UFO.
"Gary McKinnon, still suffering from Asperger's syndrome, depression, anxiety, and panic attacks, has one last chance to avoid extradition from the UK to the US to face charges of hacking into NASA and Pentagon computers in search of information on UFOs."
I'm sorry, what relevance does his Aspergers, depression, anxiety, panic attacks, or ingrown toenails have to do with anything? He broke into government systems repeatedly, end of story.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
If the data is available, I would be interested in learning the death rate for people with asperger syndrome in prison facilities.
(Note: Not to excuse his actions of course)
Inmate: Hey newbie - what's your name?
Asperger Prisoner: #$@#%@! sir
(Prison Alarm)
L'esperienza de questa dolce vita (The experience of this sweet life) - Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
All he has to do is complain it's against his fucking Human Rights(TM) since there's a chance that he might be tortured in the US and he'll be let off the hook...
Summation 2
Assburger's is just a disease some nerd looked up on the Internet one day to use as an excuse for his asshole behaviour.
He's not going to white-collar resort prison. No, no, no. He's going to federal POUND ME IN THE ASS prison.
system. For the nth time:
WINDOZE.
Technical note: In order for Microslop
applications to work for ANYONE, they must be HACKED !
Yours in Tashkent,
Kilgore Trout, C.E.O.
Are you talking about Coprolalia, which is one possible (but not the only) symptom of Tourette Syndrome?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6fYMzKvXxg
"Sharp had always known her son was different. She recalled how, as a child, he would refuse to travel on a bus and developed obsessions - with the planets and stars. But it never occurred to her that he might be suffering from a severe medical condition (McKinnon wasn't formally diagnosed with Asperger's until August 2008)"
Since when is Asperger's a severe medical condition? Half the slashdot audience probably has it (and I'm only partly joking here). It's high functioning autism, not schizophrenia. Sheesh.
Most of what you think you know about this case is wrong. Forget about UFOs.
Also, what Gary did is trivial, barely even worth the term "hacking" (summary: he used an off-the-shelf product called RemotelyAnywhere to access completely open internet-connected Windows desktops that had the default password set).
If you want to go back to the source legal materials, this set of articles is particularly interesting:
Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3
There is a final part coming too.
libguestfs - tools for accessing and modifying virtual machine disk images
Yeah - that's the one I think I meant - DAMIT!
L'esperienza de questa dolce vita (The experience of this sweet life) - Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
If his mental state is relevant, that is for a court and justice to decide. I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that I don't have all the facts necessary to make an informed opinion on his alleged charges - so let's not.
The long time is over embarrassing the DOD IT over there poor passwords and the 800,000 was the bill to fix the systems.
How about having him pay to fix the holes he found. He could stay in the UK and get elected to Parliament. I understand MPs have pretty deep pockets when it comes to expense accounts.
Makes no mention of the alledged 'off world personnel' documents McKinnon found inside the NASA network, and has repeatidly stated exists in interviews.
This is the real reason they are hellbent on getting him in the USA, NOT because they are embarassed their networks are compromised.
Idiots.
The act of holding a person against their will (prison) requires violence or threat thereof, by definition. It is an act of coercion, and coercion is only justified in defense of coercion. When the criminal has committed no violence himself, then a punishment of prison is automatically worse than the crime, and government becomes the greater criminal.
The proper punishment in this case is restitution, not violence. Terms of restitution should be decided according to the severity of the crime. But again, under a moral and just system of law, a non-violent crime does not justify a punishment of violence.
If they were really trying to hide such evidence they would have simply had him killed. All this publicity would do is make sure that everyone know that they were hiding such evidence which would pretty much go completely against your premise.
My Aspergers syndrome says that I should be allowed to beat the crap out of him with a crowbar for using Aspergers as an excuse for criminal acts.
HOLLY SHIT what time is it
If NASA was specifically allotted funds and resources to maintain a security infrastructure, and they failed to meet their obligations in creating or maintaining what was specifically dictated of that infrastructure, then that is an entirely separate (civil) issue.
It is also a scenario of supposition introduced to this discussion by Slashdotters who seem incapable of acknowledging the real and only issue: whether or not McKinnon should face extradition and be held accountable for the crimes that he has admitted to committing.
Gaining unlawful access to NASA computers, committing obstruction, defacement (leaving notes), and making threats, are all crimes under British and American law. The US has every right to demand that McKinnon be extradited to face charges for committing those crimes against the US government and its agencies. The British government would likely make the same demands if an American intruded into their computer systems unlawfully.
McKinnon's motivations, rationale, or intentions for committing these crimes might provide a compelling emotional defense to those sympathetic of his condition during a trial. But they hold no relevance to the issue of whether or not McKinnon should actually face trial. Having an inquisitive nature powerful enough to compel you into breaking into a neighbor's residence does not absolve you of accountability under the law for acting on such an impulse to commit a crime. The same is true for McKinnon.
The notes that McKinnon left on NASA computers were not the harmless ruminations of an inquisitive man-child either. They were the rantings, criticisms, and threats of an inflated ego who clearly enjoyed a sense of control and influence over the government networks he had intruded into.
Suppose he had hacked in to a Chinese system and the Chinese government wanted to try him as a spy, with a possible sentence of death. Are people more/less supportive of his deportation?
(This is just a hypothetical of course. I don't know if China has an extradition agreement with the UK, but I would assume not.)
FTFA McKinnon suffers from a "serious major depressive disorder . . . aggravated and complicated by anxiety and panic attacks with multiple psychosomatic symptoms on a background of his having Asperger's syndrome"
If this person is tried in the U.S. two things will surly happen, 1. If one is insane, they are not responsible for their actions. And 2. He gets a free round trip to the U.S. and back home. Unless...
You see, having a serious major depressive disorder with an aggravated and complicated by anxiety and panic attacks with multiple psychosomatic symptoms is condsidered to be actually a healthy dose of realism. He may be invited to apply for a H1B1 visa to work at the NSA. And given his level symptoms, may be eligible for a more senior position at the NSA.
As he looks a bit like a grey in the new statesman photo
This all affair is silly, if you really look at it. Sure, the guy did something illegal (in USA, I'm not sure if it was illegal when it happened in UK) but the guy didn't harm anyone or anything.
But mostly this shows how outdated the laws of his Holy Majesty country are when it comes to respect the people. In practically any country of EU, (and I would bet, the civilized world), you cannot extradite you own citizen to be presented to trial in a country where the penalty for the crime committed could be higher than the one at your country. Which makes all the sense in a sovereign country that values it's citizens.
Of course that doesn't apply to British, as doesn't apply for instance the right not to pass at body scanners in Airports asking to be manually searched, or where all your lie in the city is a huge Big Brother novel with all the security cameras around. Then of course, they don't have this basic laws that protect us from the state called "Constitution", so how can they complain about all this?
Time to get rid of the queen and get a real constitution, eh mate!
your logic assumes mi5, brit govt. are not protecting the guy, due to its value, and already have working with him to gain all the information he uncovered.
even if we accept your approach, it still doesnt explain the fact that despite pentagon, other offices, and even some hardware of u.s. military have been raped by chinese, and russia, and even got trojan horse chip containing hardware and chips implanted through various firms, u.s. still doesnt do the same kind of stampede.
Read radical news here
why. if you have mod points, use them logically. not like a drunk, right wing extremist baboon.
Read radical news here
He shouldn't of messed with something that wasn't his or wasn't given permission to access. Leave things alone that don't belong to you! I don't feel sorry for this guy.
here is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it actually exist.
Asperger-monsters are the most self-centered, selfish pieces of shit on the planet. Devoid of empathy, social reasoning, social context, or self awareness, they are subhuman meat-calculators, who live to collect and catalogue items like barcodes and bottletops.
So you've seen manifestations of a condition which you deny exists? Fascinating.
He was not the only one hacking these systems, when he was in those system he saw also other chinese/russian hackers..
Also if America protect there most "valued data" like this (and yes he found UFO data) then the America public must think how there public data is protected.
I think that The people that administrate these systems need to be convicted with helping terrorists.. ... it is not good and not the problem of the hacker.
If there is no password set for the "root" user or the password is "password"
Also why are these system accessible true the internet?
How was the smart person to connect these secure system to the internet.
In the old days you needed to dial into these systems but in those times the NASA system where also easy to hack into.
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Devoid of empathy, social reasoning, social context, or self awareness, they are subhuman meat-calculators,
All I know is that beef == 48879. Oh, and 3735928559 if you kill it.
Tell that to the judges when they "authorize" civil commitment "treatment" "services" (services which cant be pre-emptively refused, a bit like SPAM services by Alan Ralsky) based on "diagnosis" on having these "diseases" and being "danger" to self. Doctor's pseudoreligion for racketeering.
This extradition case is the vanguard on the war against UK personal freedom. The right not to be extradited to America without any local trial or evidence produced, where America have many differing states that allow them to not only choose which local laws best suit the conviction but which state holds the longest sentencing (Texas is popular for this I believe). Sounds unlikely? Remember the NatWest Three, were three British citizens ended up being extradited to Texas and consequently were convicted of an offence committed in the UK against a UK bank, where said offence is not even illegal in the UK. Luckily for Americans the extradition treaty is strictly a one way process.
The new UK government opposed the Gary McKinnon extradition but were defeated 290 to 236 votes in the house of commons. Of course now they are at the helm it seems likely to me the move will now be blocked.
> Gary McKinnon, still suffering from Asperger's syndrome,...
Is Asperger's something one can stop suffering from? I realize other temporary things were listed that I cut off so maybe that's what the "still" is referring to, but that read funny to me.
Before you design for reuse, make sure to design it for use.
Enjoy Gitmo.
Canada has a flamboyant pro-cannabis activist named Marc Emery who's going through a similar extradition process and some outrage about loss of sovereignty if he's extradited.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Why aren't Government computers on their own private network, rather than use the public networks overwhelmed with entertainment? Consider how all the recent Government and corporation corruption schemes are from them distracted with unofficial tasks. Think of all the international terrorism that can be averted away from their systems if only they were on their own private network.
It's not like the Internet has to be divided into Internet~1 and Internet~2. Just use copper that go to a sattelite network that isn't metered for those privileged bastards. :-) Iridium?
Are you kidding? I just came through the federal court system, and I highly doubt you understand "the way sentencing is done in the US."
Sure Booker made sentencing guidelines advisory, but judges by and large go by the sentencing tables, and AUSA's will scream blue murder if judges downwardly depart without a damn good reason,. And, Asperger's is not a good reason, only 5K1.1 motions work for them. (e.g being a rat.)
Federal sentencing is very formulaic and due to the insanity of the grand jury farce system, anyone can end up looking at INSANE time for what might seem to you to be an innocuous crime. And the Government has NO issue whatsoever with making up charges, so they can conveniently drop them later in a plea bargain.
Need an example? I was indicted for five life terms, plus 105 years for causing damage to a portable toilet. I am dead serious. I was forced to sign for five years, and did 52 months (good time) in a very unpleasant FCI in Ohio, and am still on home confinement right now.
This guy is probably charged with a violation, 18 U.S.C. 1030(a)(2) which refers to US Sentencing Guideline 2B1.1 (Larceny, Embezzlement, and Other Forms of Theft; Offenses Involving Stolen Property; Property Damage or Destruction; Fraud and Deceit; Forgery; Offenses Involving Altered or Counterfeit Instruments Other than Counterfeit Bearer Obligation of the United States) It has a statutory maximum term of imprisonment of 20 years or more.
Calculate his (or any) federal sentence here.
It drives me fucking NUTS when people think they understand the US court/justice system because they watch Law and Order.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
your logic assumes mi5, brit govt. are not protecting the guy, due to its value, and already have working with him to gain all the information he uncovered.
Yes, my logic definitely doesn't entail such ridiculously convoluted excuses in order to explain away all the issues with the premise of my argument.
i think the usa should just let the uk handle it they have hacking laws to. also i agree they whont go tossing the guy into super max for this and throw away the key unless they use the stupid terror charge. and the uk should tell them no. but if the us did just do the hacking charge he would go into a minum security where such voliance is rare. heck they even get there own keys to there cells. witch is funny being are states havent woke up to the fact why does there low security faciltys have little problems wile there supermax are living hell.
US is hell bent on getting McKinnon, but at the same time gives no shit about India's extradition request of Warren Anderson accused of Bhopal disaster, killing 15000+ people in or David Headley, alleged mastermind behind Mumbai terrorist attacks, killing 200+.
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Yeah - no wonder the rest of the planet has the same flag as the American one - only theirs in on fire.
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Fucking Arseholes.
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Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.
If Brits in the UK are obliged to comply with US laws then by default it means we all fall within the legal jurisdiction of every nation in the world simultaneously, regardless of where on earth we are.
The idea that we've already been contacted by UFOs is seen as so ridiculous by the majority of people that the more evidence you provide, the more it appears that you're a raving nutjob.
In short, if they were really trying to hide such evidence (wholly unnecessary), they wouldn't need to have him killed. In fact, it's probably better to let him live because it'll mean that any evidence that does come out (however genuine it is) will be viewed with a pretty high degree of scepticism.
800,000 that should have been spent in the first place to secure the network.
So if McKinnon get's extradited to the US will Warren Anderson get a free trip to India?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster
US already flicked the bird several times. As when they refused to allow the USAF pilots to be requested in court, not for criminal charge, but to answer questions.
People with mental disabilities are given special consideration and some degree of liniency.
In other words, the justice systems tend to be more humane than in the US.
Let the guy off because it was a stupid offence if you must, but please stop trotting out the, "He suffers from xyz syndrome"
If he is compelled to commit crimes then all the more reason to lock him up. The fact that he is depressed, or that criminals have feelings is the least reason why we should let them off. Of course he's depressed; he is close to being extradited and might be facing a long prison sentence. If that was reason enough to not prosecute, there would be nobody in prison at all.
Now let's hear from all you people with the leftie-liberal-I-haven't-a-clue-how-to-run-anything-but-like-to-sit-on-my-backside-and-moan syndrome.
AND for something that wasn't a crime at the time. Yes, that's right: they want to try him for a crime retroactively applied. Isn't that unconstitutional?
And that you eat your words, one at the time.
I used to be like you, until I saw depression first, made my life miserable and me wiser.
The death penalty is only one of the many deficiencies of the US judicial and penal system (unless you think sharing the love of the death penalty with Saudi Arabia, North Korea and China si what the US should aspire to)
You also have:
- Incarceration of minors as adults (including the death penalty).
- Incarceration of mentally ill people (including death penalty).
- Not allowing foreigners access to counsel from tehir diplomnatic representative (Vienna Convention).
And many others I will not mention because it is frankly a disgrace.
And that evidence would be what? Those fake crop circles? Manipulated photos? Grain, low resolution videos of space debris?
Bear in mind that I'm entirely in the realms of hypothesis at this point.
About the only evidence that would be even remotely interesting would be some sort of written evidence of two-way communication with any aliens - and it'd immediately be denounced as fake regardless of how true it really was.
(I don't actually think it's terribly likely - any alien species that had the ability to cover the distances required to visit us would be so far advanced that there would be no point whatsoever in bothering).
So you've seen manifestations of a condition which you deny exists? Fascinating.
He's seen manifestations of personality traits, nothing else. If you want to give a mix of selfishness, awkwardness, and shyness a name and classify it as a syndrome, go ahead; but it's meaningless definition shuffling.
[sarcasm] Right. Because satellite networks are somehow inherently more secure than terrestrial networks. [/sarcasm]
Kid-proof tablet..
yet, you do the same for your own argument.
Read radical news here
Ass Burgers boy will be a welcome change for guys tired of eating tossed salads.
Those machines were on the internet too. No password. So he broke in to the US computers in the same way as you posted your filth to Saudi Arabia.
ABSOLUTELY NO ELECTRONS from the US were moved over to the UK or vice versa. So in what way did he break in to USA?
The guy would rather go to jail in the UK then one of your rape prisons for decades, what a surprise!
He may find the UK prison no safer:
British jails are failing to investigate serious allegations of male rape, according to the prisons ombudsman.
Stephen Shaw's concerns, which are expressed in a report into the alleged rape of a prisoner who had Asperger's syndrome and learning difficulties, are likely to place a new focus on a subject that is hardly ever discussed within the prison system.
His comments are made in an official report into the case of "Mark", a 21-year-old man with Asperger's syndrome, learning difficulties and a history of self-harm, who was remanded to Altcourse prison in Liverpool in 2007. It was recommended that Mark, whose name has been changed to protect his identity, be remanded into a psychiatric unit, but there were no places available.
Despite his vulnerable nature, he was placed on a wing with sex offenders and was allegedly raped by a cellmate who had attempted to assault him several weeks earlier. He attempted to throw himself off a prison landing shortly after the alleged incident and is now in a psychiatric unit.
Files relating to the case have gone missing, making the job of investigating the rape allegation an almost impossible task. Merseyside Police attempted a scientific examination after the incident but, according to Jane, her son's mattress and clothes were swapped within hours of the alleged assault having taken place.
Mark's case has been pursued by the Howard League which, following a two-year battle, believes it has won vital recognition of the issue from the ombudsman.
Experts say it is likely that incidents of rape in British prisons are heavily under-reported. According to figures released by the government in response to parliamentary questions, there were 119 allegations of sexual assault in prison in 2008, but only 33 were subject to a PSO1300 investigation.
"There are clear reasons why rape and sexual assault would go unreported in prison," [the assistant director of the Howard League] said. "Not only will it be difficult to prove in many instances, but telling a member of staff that you have been raped would see prisoners ostracised and vulnerable to bullying. We believe the 119 recorded incidents of sexual assault in prison are likely to be a serious underestimation of the problem. In that context, the fact that only 33 internal investigations were then commissioned seems a pitiful response from the authorities."
'My son was raped in jail - the crime was ignored' [May 2, 2010]