And Linux is a mishmash copy of Minix and System V ideas (some of them exceedingly bad ideas).
How far back do you want to go?
You misunderstand my comment. I'm not saying Apple is particularly innovative (though it's hard to argue they are not, especially in the UI space), I'm saying very few other software projects are, and that includes most open source ones. And Microsoft, for that matter.
Ever use Groove? Groove is close to revolutionary innovation in some respects, but it's still a mix of ideas ad concepts that have been developed and tried in other products.
Then again Microsoft just bought Groove, so take that with a grain of salt.
Please don't insult my intelligence. The "freedom to innovate" campaign was a media blitz launched by Microsoft to counter the negative press they were getting during the antitrust trial. Let's not stretch things that far, eh?
if you don't think free software innovates
There is a lot of innovation. About as much, I'd say, as there is in Microsoft. Which is to say not much, or even better, not much that is revolutionary. Mozilla for example is based on someone else's code. It did not invent tabbed browsing, themes, extensions or most everything else they call "innovative". Does Mozilla not innovate? Sure they do. Evolutionary innovation - things are rehashed and perfected with each iteration and release. Apache, GNOME, KDE, the Linux kernel, etc. To imply that Microsoft (and any other company out there) does not do the same is retarded and miopic.
The most revolutionary thing I've seen coming out of the free software side in the past five years is Bitorrent.
BTW, if you think Windows is Microsoft's only product, and therefore the only stick one can use to measure their innovation (or lack thereof) you are just plain ignorant.
Well, FWIW I wouldn't put Windows on a robot, either. No matter what Microsoft says about CE or whatever that stuff is called these days.
Embedded/RT Linux is one of those niches for which the OS is perfectly suited, and having dealt a little with it, my hat's off to some of the people who work in that space. Really amazing stuff. It's also interesting how a good piece of software can fit into so many little nooks that were never envisioned by the original developers.
Absolutely. As a side note, have you noticed how KDE looks exactly like Windows? And, and, a default GNOME install looks kinda like OS 9?
Have you noticed how Evolution looks exactly like Outlook?
Have you noticed XMMS? Wow, it looks a lot like Winamp.
OMG, and Nautilus looks kinda like Explorer if you watch carefully!!
And those cool RHEL admin tools?? I mean, it's the Microsoft Management Console all over again!
Although I've noticed lately that opensores is copying Apple as well. Not that that's bad, of course.
Oh, wait... I'm not supposed to say these things here. Don't want to put a dent in our vigorous and always funny Microsoft bashing while ignoring the small fact that free software can't innovate to save its life, unless it's designing exciting new ways to applying 1,234 slightly different skinz to the same tired, passe layout. No, no. We cannot have that here. Someone mod me down, quick.
I agree that could be the case, although the bar for Windows development is far lower today than it was a few years ago (not counting the Windows license itself).
But that's not the argument that I'm questioning - it's the "developers are switching to Linux" deal that seems fishy.
Once in a while I see these claims that Microsoft is "losing developers" or "can't prevent developers from leaving the Windows platform" and so on.
What exactly is the source of these claims? Where is a report or a study of some kind that does not involve the beloved anecdotal "my friend Floyd used to code MFC but now he's a PHP developer, Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc" bullshit everyone loves to quote around here?
As a consultant I deal with a lot of companies and a lot of developers in the US southwest region, and I simply cannot relate this "exodus" of developer to what I see in the field, every day. I see PHP gaining some ground, but that's it. And sometimes it's even PHP on Windows, which is idiotic. But I digress.
I'm not saying it's impossible mind you, but It just occurred to me that maybe I'm actually missing something. Or is it just part of the same old "M$ is about to go under" absurd crap I've been hearing for the past 10 years or so? Because keep in mind that people were saying this in the alt.advocacy newsgroups back then.
And the last time someone "measured" this, it was 23 seconds or something like that.
And the next time it will be 23 minutes. And so on.
You could not pay me to put a Windows or Linux machine on my DMZ. They're all behind my $30 NAT router and they can be patched to my heart's content without having to worry about them getting p0wn3d. Oh, and to all you Linux fanboys who are going to be insulted by this - try putting a fresh RH9 (off ISOs) on your DMZ, and let's see how long it lasts.
Re:OOP languages tend to be pretty poor.
on
Effective C#
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· Score: 1
extensions supported in Longhorn
Please don't be so fucking ignorant. What you're referring to is called Indigo, and it's a messaging stack that will also be available for Windows XP and 2003. It is not an "extension to C#". It's not even part of.NET, although it's mostly written with it and designed to be used by applications written with the framework.
Further, Novell has said they were not interested in implementing Indigo, and will not. Ever. That Indigo is encumbered by patents does not change the fact that C# and the CLI/CLR itself are fucking ECMA standards, whether you choose to ignore that small point or not.
The next time you go off into your "OMFG M$ IS TEH SUXX" educated-sounding rant and tick off the various points about why C# is evil, at least fucking educate yourself beforehand, mmmkay?
The briefcase with the nuclear launch codes that is carried by an Air Force Intelligence officer and always accompanies the president of the US is nicknamed "the football". Maybe that's where that comes from.
Since GWB became president it's been called "the hoky pock" however.
Individual clicks really don't make a difference, and Slashdot has implemented the rel="nofollow" attribute in anchor tags to avoid cross-site spamming.
Besides, you'd only be actually making them money if you click on any of the links that are in the blog page.
Blogspot is fucking overflowing with these fake blogs. Here's one example.
If you have a few minutes, click on the randomizer button at the top of the screen that reads "Next Blog" a couple of times. I'd be willing to say that at least 2 out of every 10 blogs is a spam farm.
That's nice. You've been having a "rich" browsing experience with little search boxes for no more than 4 years, on average. Unless I missed a browser that had these (and a lot of other) features in 1999.
Microsoft is behind because they entered their dreaded "zafe zone" where they become compliant because they're so far ahead of everyone else or simply have no competition (Netscape anyone).
Still, let's not get into these "OMFG TEH MS r TEH 20 yEArz BEHIND!!!!" collective-selective amnesia deals. Firefox and Safari are relatively new. That does not justify Microsoft's shortsightedness, it makes it all the more apparent. I've seen these types of comments elsewhere regarding FF for example - "OMFG TeH IE SUxx No CSS2!!! HAHAHA!!!" from people whose CSS-compliant experience is all of one year old. C'mon now.
Microsoft probably can and will produce a browser that is as good as Firefox in most respects (except probably extensions - Adblock is the only thing that keeps me on FF for the moment). It's too hard to create browser objects with C++ for IE. Creating extensions for FF is a pleasure.
But even ignoring integration with the OS, what most users will go for is speed. Speed. Loading speed. The speed with which new windows open. Firefox SUCKS there. Even the optimized Moox builds are really not that fast. Compared to IE, FF is so slow it's not even funny.
So since 99% of computer users could care less about "open source" or whether or not the browser passes ACID2, speed is going to be the killer factor for FF. They have an impressive cross-platform product, but Windows users don't care about cross platform either. And that's ultimately FF's achilles heel, I think.
Hey, that's a great point. I'll use it the next time I see some slashbot trying to make a point about Microsoft being "evil".
Maybe I'll even get modded up, like you.
Thanks.
Re:I don't get it! Who's going to buy it?
on
Zeta Goes Gold
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· Score: 1
Maybe selling operating systems is an alternative to this.
Maybe someone out there will buy it. Maybe they'll get a corporate contract or something. Maybe vertical apps will be written for it. The world is big enough, you know.
It's up to you to decide whether or not €99 is worth it. It's €98.90 more than most people around here are willing to shell out for a decent operating system, but I'm guessing YellowTab is not targetting random slashbots with novel ideas about the economics of software markets. That's just a guess though.
Section 2A - Notwithstanding any other claimants and/or vicissitudes related to the Contractee's employment therein while at Microsoft Corporation (C)(TM), Contractee heretofore agrees in full to instruct Microsoft Corporation (C)(TM) on how to:
Develop an operating system that recompiles itself continuously, preventing the user from doing anything useful with their computers; and
Create, develop and nurture a community of obnoxious prepubescent teenagers that believe they are '1337' (see definition of '1337' in Appendix D) 'haxx0rz' (see definition of 'haxx0rz' in Appendix E) because they're 'squeezing' (see definition of 'squeezing' in Appendix M) every ounce of 'computing power' from their WalMart (TM) eMachines (TM) Celeron (TM) 'boxen' (see definition of 'boxen' in Appendix R)
Section 2B - Contractee will also instruct Microsoft Corporation (C)(TM) on the use and operation of the computer program known as 'cvs'.
If you're willing to provide proof that MS Office loads more slowly than OOo without osa.exe, I'm all ears.
I haven't used osa in ages, because I tend to remove stuff from the Windows startup sequence as much as possible.
If I were to guess I'd say osa makes about a second of difference in Office app load times. Word still loads in under three seconds flat. Writer still takes ~15-20 seconds (when not cached).
I love it when people around here fixate on an irrelevant aspect of the discussion, get modded up and everyone packs it up and calls it a day. "OMFG, TEH OFFICE IS TEH IN MEMORY!!1!"
That's why free software will never overtake commercial software, and it's a shame. Ya'll are more perked with whining about how Microsoft is supposedly "cheating" (flashes of "OMFG Firefox is slow becuase IE IS INTEGRATEDED INTO TEH KERNAL!!!!1!") and making software that just barely works instead of actually kicking some ass.
As a fairly experienced (and ranked in UT at one time in 2001) gamer, I can tell you that any gamer worth his tag uses a trackball. There is nothing better for FPS. The control you get from one by simply moving your fingers is far superior than what you'll ever get by moving even just your wrist, never mind the whole arm.
Hahahah, lo and behold the apple fanboy bullshit of the day.
Apple has always been an innovator, but it has never lead the pack because it simply hasn't had those many laptop/notebook models. The advances in laptop technology have been pushed by the demand in PC laptops from Compaq, Dell, HP and more importantly, IBM. IBM has been probably the more innovating integrator of the lot. Apple is a distant catch-up, regardless of their good industrial design capabilities. The ability to have a hard drive the size of a pack of matches, wireless networking or power-saving processors does not come to us courtesy of your "friends at Apple", it comes from the Toshibas, VIAs and Intels of the world being pushed by PC makers with insane consumer-level demand. You honestly don't think Apple makes their own Firewire controllers, eh?
come on. Software Is Not Hard. anyone building a business would be well advised to spend an hour a day, working only on the business-engine that drives their system. an hour a day, for 3 months, can result in a -very- tailored software engine.. especially if you've got the spirit.
Interesting. Given your low UIN I'd thought that you'd know something, anything, about enterprise software development. But I guess that's definitely not the case.
Slashdot Mirror
How far back do you want to go?
You misunderstand my comment. I'm not saying Apple is particularly innovative (though it's hard to argue they are not, especially in the UI space), I'm saying very few other software projects are, and that includes most open source ones. And Microsoft, for that matter.
Ever use Groove? Groove is close to revolutionary innovation in some respects, but it's still a mix of ideas ad concepts that have been developed and tried in other products.
Then again Microsoft just bought Groove, so take that with a grain of salt.
Please don't insult my intelligence. The "freedom to innovate" campaign was a media blitz launched by Microsoft to counter the negative press they were getting during the antitrust trial. Let's not stretch things that far, eh?
if you don't think free software innovates
There is a lot of innovation. About as much, I'd say, as there is in Microsoft. Which is to say not much, or even better, not much that is revolutionary. Mozilla for example is based on someone else's code. It did not invent tabbed browsing, themes, extensions or most everything else they call "innovative". Does Mozilla not innovate? Sure they do. Evolutionary innovation - things are rehashed and perfected with each iteration and release. Apache, GNOME, KDE, the Linux kernel, etc. To imply that Microsoft (and any other company out there) does not do the same is retarded and miopic.
The most revolutionary thing I've seen coming out of the free software side in the past five years is Bitorrent.
BTW, if you think Windows is Microsoft's only product, and therefore the only stick one can use to measure their innovation (or lack thereof) you are just plain ignorant.
Embedded/RT Linux is one of those niches for which the OS is perfectly suited, and having dealt a little with it, my hat's off to some of the people who work in that space. Really amazing stuff. It's also interesting how a good piece of software can fit into so many little nooks that were never envisioned by the original developers.
Have you noticed how Evolution looks exactly like Outlook?
Have you noticed XMMS? Wow, it looks a lot like Winamp.
OMG, and Nautilus looks kinda like Explorer if you watch carefully!!
And those cool RHEL admin tools?? I mean, it's the Microsoft Management Console all over again!
Although I've noticed lately that opensores is copying Apple as well. Not that that's bad, of course.
Oh, wait... I'm not supposed to say these things here. Don't want to put a dent in our vigorous and always funny Microsoft bashing while ignoring the small fact that free software can't innovate to save its life, unless it's designing exciting new ways to applying 1,234 slightly different skinz to the same tired, passe layout. No, no. We cannot have that here. Someone mod me down, quick.
Dumbass.
But that's not the argument that I'm questioning - it's the "developers are switching to Linux" deal that seems fishy.
What exactly is the source of these claims? Where is a report or a study of some kind that does not involve the beloved anecdotal "my friend Floyd used to code MFC but now he's a PHP developer, Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc" bullshit everyone loves to quote around here?
As a consultant I deal with a lot of companies and a lot of developers in the US southwest region, and I simply cannot relate this "exodus" of developer to what I see in the field, every day. I see PHP gaining some ground, but that's it. And sometimes it's even PHP on Windows, which is idiotic. But I digress.
I'm not saying it's impossible mind you, but It just occurred to me that maybe I'm actually missing something. Or is it just part of the same old "M$ is about to go under" absurd crap I've been hearing for the past 10 years or so? Because keep in mind that people were saying this in the alt.advocacy newsgroups back then.
Pathetic.
"M$"? "Windoze"? Har, har. What utter twaddle!
Silly me, I was using SSH. Someone shoot me.
Nice troll
Nice apologetic washout.
And the next time it will be 23 minutes. And so on.
You could not pay me to put a Windows or Linux machine on my DMZ. They're all behind my $30 NAT router and they can be patched to my heart's content without having to worry about them getting p0wn3d. Oh, and to all you Linux fanboys who are going to be insulted by this - try putting a fresh RH9 (off ISOs) on your DMZ, and let's see how long it lasts.
Please don't be so fucking ignorant. What you're referring to is called Indigo, and it's a messaging stack that will also be available for Windows XP and 2003. It is not an "extension to C#". It's not even part of .NET, although it's mostly written with it and designed to be used by applications written with the framework.
Further, Novell has said they were not interested in implementing Indigo, and will not. Ever. That Indigo is encumbered by patents does not change the fact that C# and the CLI/CLR itself are fucking ECMA standards, whether you choose to ignore that small point or not.
The next time you go off into your "OMFG M$ IS TEH SUXX" educated-sounding rant and tick off the various points about why C# is evil, at least fucking educate yourself beforehand, mmmkay?
Since GWB became president it's been called "the hoky pock" however.
Besides, you'd only be actually making them money if you click on any of the links that are in the blog page.
If you have a few minutes, click on the randomizer button at the top of the screen that reads "Next Blog" a couple of times. I'd be willing to say that at least 2 out of every 10 blogs is a spam farm.
It's just fucking sad.
Microsoft is behind because they entered their dreaded "zafe zone" where they become compliant because they're so far ahead of everyone else or simply have no competition (Netscape anyone).
Still, let's not get into these "OMFG TEH MS r TEH 20 yEArz BEHIND!!!!" collective-selective amnesia deals. Firefox and Safari are relatively new. That does not justify Microsoft's shortsightedness, it makes it all the more apparent. I've seen these types of comments elsewhere regarding FF for example - "OMFG TeH IE SUxx No CSS2!!! HAHAHA!!!" from people whose CSS-compliant experience is all of one year old. C'mon now.
But even ignoring integration with the OS, what most users will go for is speed. Speed. Loading speed. The speed with which new windows open. Firefox SUCKS there. Even the optimized Moox builds are really not that fast. Compared to IE, FF is so slow it's not even funny.
So since 99% of computer users could care less about "open source" or whether or not the browser passes ACID2, speed is going to be the killer factor for FF. They have an impressive cross-platform product, but Windows users don't care about cross platform either. And that's ultimately FF's achilles heel, I think.
Maybe I'll even get modded up, like you.
Thanks.
Maybe someone out there will buy it. Maybe they'll get a corporate contract or something. Maybe vertical apps will be written for it. The world is big enough, you know.
It's up to you to decide whether or not €99 is worth it. It's €98.90 more than most people around here are willing to shell out for a decent operating system, but I'm guessing YellowTab is not targetting random slashbots with novel ideas about the economics of software markets. That's just a guess though.
Section 2B - Contractee will also instruct Microsoft Corporation (C)(TM) on the use and operation of the computer program known as 'cvs'.
I haven't used osa in ages, because I tend to remove stuff from the Windows startup sequence as much as possible.
If I were to guess I'd say osa makes about a second of difference in Office app load times. Word still loads in under three seconds flat. Writer still takes ~15-20 seconds (when not cached).
I love it when people around here fixate on an irrelevant aspect of the discussion, get modded up and everyone packs it up and calls it a day. "OMFG, TEH OFFICE IS TEH IN MEMORY!!1!"
That's why free software will never overtake commercial software, and it's a shame. Ya'll are more perked with whining about how Microsoft is supposedly "cheating" (flashes of "OMFG Firefox is slow becuase IE IS INTEGRATEDED INTO TEH KERNAL!!!!1!") and making software that just barely works instead of actually kicking some ass.
Any experienced gamer uses a large mousepad
As a fairly experienced (and ranked in UT at one time in 2001) gamer, I can tell you that any gamer worth his tag uses a trackball. There is nothing better for FPS. The control you get from one by simply moving your fingers is far superior than what you'll ever get by moving even just your wrist, never mind the whole arm.
News at 11. News for nerds, stuff that splatters.
I think he missed 'called'. As in they called.
Quite apropos given your "laugh while you can" bullshit, which is laughable itself.
Hope that helps.
Apple has always been an innovator, but it has never lead the pack because it simply hasn't had those many laptop/notebook models. The advances in laptop technology have been pushed by the demand in PC laptops from Compaq, Dell, HP and more importantly, IBM. IBM has been probably the more innovating integrator of the lot. Apple is a distant catch-up, regardless of their good industrial design capabilities. The ability to have a hard drive the size of a pack of matches, wireless networking or power-saving processors does not come to us courtesy of your "friends at Apple", it comes from the Toshibas, VIAs and Intels of the world being pushed by PC makers with insane consumer-level demand. You honestly don't think Apple makes their own Firewire controllers, eh?
Thanks for the laugh though.
Interesting. Given your low UIN I'd thought that you'd know something, anything, about enterprise software development. But I guess that's definitely not the case.