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Gentoo Founder on his way to Redmond
Rotworm writes "Recently former founder of Gentoo Linux, Daniel Robbins, has managed to procure employment with Microsoft. Robbins describes his position as "helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects." Seemingly there's no scandals as Robbins managed to finalize the transfer of all Gentoo's IP to the Gentoo Foundation, Inc."
Any idea what his employment contract may hold?
"helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects"
Do they ship cluebats freight? I guess they do now.
funny what money can do!
It's a trick!
Buy them out.
Is this the beginning of a strategy for Microsoft? Can't beat them, just buy them or the lead developer?
Quality Hosting e3 Servers
I hope he is successful! I'd sure like to see Windows users have to emerge msoffice2k3 and wait for six days.
all your open source visionaries are belong to ms.
Man I wish I had his job. "OpenSource projects: Opposite in every way from Microsoft. Now where's my paycheck?!" =)
is anyone here concerned about the parallels with the latest episode of Dr Who?
the game-shows where losers are beamed up to the Dalek Mothership?
EXTERMINATE!
EXTERMINATE!
Good job, Dan, spread the good word on the MS campus!
This is only a good thing in as much as Redmond need more prospective.. Assuming he runs Linux at his Desktop it will not be the first 'Nix box there.. nor the last..
http://www.hawknest.com/
Looks like someone got assimilated into the Collective. Hmmm... Where do I sign up? :P
And thusly we see the beginning of taking over Microsoft by getting on the inside, one at a time.
I RTFA but it was redundant!
Seriously, I hope he didn't accept low pay with the promise of stock options like a lot of Microsoft employees have in the past. The day of the Microsoft made millionnaires is over.
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
Its 2005, MS is hiring people to 'help them understand open source'. There has to be some HUGE f**ing idiots working there.
jk. It can't hurt to have an evangelist on the inside. Hopefully he won't get frustrated and quit within a month.
I think Microsoft already understand Open Source projects - and, quite obviously and unsurprisingly, they don't like them. Justifiable from a business perspective, crap from (almost) everyone else's perspective, and I have trouble seeing what change he could bring in Microsoft.
Unless of course he's got several kilograms of TNT strapped to his chest when he has his first meeting with Bill :)
Physicist, consultant, science communicator
"Recently former founder of Gentoo Linux[...]"
How can someone be a former founder? Once you found something, that's it, you always will have been the founder, right? I mean the Founding Fathers of America aren't the Former Founding Fathers - they are still the Founding Fathers even though they are all dead, and don't take much of an active interest in the affairs of the country anymore.
-If
Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
I wouldn't mind this if Microsoft used this help to "understand opensource better and collaborate with it"
Microsoft is not going to do that. They want to know everything about open source because the want to compete with it, ie: beat us. It'd be nicer if Microsoft used this help to collaborate with opensource better, opensource things, etc etc.
What with the whole Apple and Intel thing, do you think there's any risk/chance of Microsoft going FOSS on us? Maybe a kernel based on BSD?
I'd still call it a long shot, but like I said, Hell *did* freeze over last week :)
---
European webzine about guns, hacking, paranoia, survival
#eurohacker on irc.freenode.org
In other words
helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects
PR
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
In a related story, Anakin Skywalker is serving as an aid to Senator Palpatine to help him understand the Jedi council.
If Microsoft truly wants to get in touch with the Open Source community, why remove Robbins from it completely. I think they would do better to make him a paid freelance consultant. I believe that once he's gone to "the dark side" in the community's eyes, he'll never be able to look at the movement from an insider's point of view again. But now, MS will have taken a big player away, and as I see it, they're simply killing of bit of competition and will use this knowledge to kill more. But then again, I see MS as not wanting OSS to exist at all. I believe a more faith based relationship will have been developed between MS and the OS community if they had gone the consultant route, allowing Robbins to continue to develop there, but keep MS abreast of what's going on and how they could coexist more peacefully or even intermingle.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
Isn't this the guy who said that all the profits from the Gentoo Store were going to the Foundation when it actually went to him?
-------
Chunky Bacon
They say there's some new python runtime-doodad Microsoft has that's incredibly fast. Besides the organizational things this guy managed to bring ports to Linux via a Python program.
MSPortage maybe?
Imagine future versions of Visual Studio (that's their compiler, right? never compiled anything on Windows since i'm poor) coming with a version of portage that yanks down all the OSS that'll compile on Windows.
Wouldn't *that* be interesting?
Direct away from face when opening.
Recently former founder of Gentoo Linux, Daniel Robbins... so he traveled back in time and had someone else found it instead?
Not intended to be flamebait, but I'm sure it will be. As a long time Gentoo user, this actually gives me pause. Both that someone who created his own linux distro would actually cross over to the Microsoft world, and the fact that Gentoo has gotten worse since he left. That and....well, let's face it, Gentoo wasn't that great when he was there either.
It was nice to start with, and it has plenty of bonus points it brings to the table. But the devs NEVER pay attention. Masking dependancies for programs that are unmasked, failing to actually check to see if the ebuilds even work, and let's not go into masking items such as spamassassin and leaving them masked with NO reason as to why.
I've been spending the last 6 months beginning the process of migrating away from Gentoo due to the fact that it's quirkiness has become a bit of a problem, but now. This makes me wonder just a bit more about what's going on...and for how long it's been going on. Kind of makes you wonder if he didn't have something like this in mind all along.
A lot of times, things are "tied" together in contracts between an individual and a large corporation. Commonly, a single employment contract will cover hiring the employee, granting permission for employee to enter employer's premises, granting clearance to trade secrets (and a covenant not to disclose them to third parties without express permission), and granting an assignment or work-for-hire setup for the employer to use any copyright, patent, trademark, or trade secret created by the employee using employer's resources. The trouble comes when employers insist on BS riders such as broad non-compete agreements or broad "all your idea are belong to us" IP-grabs that cover works and inventions developed by the employee entirely using the employee's resources.
drobbins is going to kill our children??
"Today, class, we're going to learn about kde..."
"Err, Mr Robbins sir, is this going to take much longer? I gotta go pee"
Generally a good paying job helps one to sleep better at night.
One day you'll grow up and realize that MS vs. F/OSS isn't a titanic battle between evil and good but just a different licensing philosophy that the vast majority of the world could care less about.
Is Gentoo now considered evil?
Daniel! You were supposed to be the chosen one!
----
Not to be confused with Col.
It's official, we've crossed over into the Bizarro World.
I wonder if the lack of comments modded up to 5 is a result of widespread shock, or just disbelief?
The good news was that I got paid more than it was worth!
I hope it is not applicable here.
(As it turned out, it wasn't so bad to be a consultant doing Windows. I didn't even have to lie. The main problem was my health... which I'm certain was a totally unrelated problem. Very certain. I think.)
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
Insert the obligatory joke/analogy to Anakien Skywalker/Darth Vader and/or Star Trek Borg assimilating dude here_______
Yeah huge fucking idiots that managed to create the largest software company in the world and the world's richest man. God I wish i was huge fucking idiot, maybe then i can amass a $50 billion net worth.
"helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects."
Translation: MSFT is paying me more money than g-d to jump up and down "Balmer Style" yelling Open-Source Open-Source...
MS sucks in another traitor. Filthy whores. My momma always told me to stay away from hookers, but Bill Gates like to gather them, fuck them and make them into bots. Next thing you know this fruitcake will be going "Linux is okay, but Microsoft is the best."
Fucking traitor.
Well, there's never been a very good or charismatic Open Source Leader. RMS and ESR are both as nutty as fruitcakes, and Bruce Perens is nothing but a media whore (similar to Jesse Jackson). I think OSS would GREATLY benefit from one or a small handful of charismatic, intelligent leader(s). First, let's see if a leader for OSS crops up.
Once that's settled, it's time for looking for a leader for a real policial revolution...
I'm assuming Daniel is still the founder of Gentoo, regardless of his current employment status and relationship to the Gentoo project...
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/microsoft .html remember? OK, not Linus himself, but...
Isn't Linux capable of multi-tasking?
GNU/Linux, *BSD, and Microsoft Windows NT series operating systems are capable of multitasking (use program A on your PC while program B is installing), but the installation process does introduce latency. You can use everything else on your machine, but you can't the package that you're installing from source, whether it be from a tarball, an SRPM, Gentoo ports, or FreeBSD ports, until it's built.
Microsoft dont do anything out of the goodness of their hearts. They are a corporate entity with a fiscal responsibility to their shareholders.
:-).
He will be brought on board to continue the MS strategy of embrace, extend (in a proprietary fashion) then replace. MS do not want to support linux in any way, they want to kill it. Dead. Every linux box sold represents money ripped from their pocket.
My guess is that this could be something like:
- get linux to run well on MS virtual machines, so linux can become just an app running under 2k3, and therefore slowely sink into oblivion.
- work on their command line tools. Looks like they have finally realised that the {Li,U}n{u,i}x way of providing powerful command line utilities is actually pretty useful (perhaps learned from the struggle when they first tried to convert hotmail to NT
Interesting times ahead.
Anyone else notice that this isn't the first ABQ->Redmond migration for a "distribution" founder?
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I just hope he can be trusted is all & that he is not some "Linux uber alles" fanatical Penguin type hopefully. Fact is? I see ALOT of that type of behaviour on the parts of many here, and a definite "Anti-Microsoft" attitude. This is NOT isolated to Slashdot either, & tends to pervade alot of other spots online where "penguins" congregate.
Grow up to those like that is all I can say, & have a dose of reality:
Microsoft's NOT going down, or remotely near it. Linux is growing, but has not 'taken over the world' as I have heard tell constantly it would in the last 10 years now or more.
The idea imo? It is the make both families of OS' interoperate as perfectly as possible.
I hope this fellow's a more "open-minded" type, rather than SO pro "OpenSource" minded like what I note above often being seen here in fact. Just so they CAN be made to be more "friendly" to one another (LINUX & WINDOWS).
Generally a good paying job helps one to sleep better at night.
When I was unemployed I slept a lot. It's free, and it's fun, plus you burn fewer calories, so you eat less. now I'm somewhat over-employed, and never seem to get more than 5-6 hours.
The new Who is a wretched chick flick.
It was 13 June, but i have just realized that is it 1 April instead...
Wondering why i am doing so strange posts? I am trying to get a "+5,Flamebait" or "-1,Insightful" rating.
... we're going to be hearing about how Longhorn will no longer have "emerge" in it, and it will be a patch to come out a year later...
Grease & Counterbalance
We'll cut the armed convoy off at SR-520 when they cross the floating bridge across Lake Washington and free him! I'll go rent a canoe down next to Husky Stadium and we'll rendevous at the traffic jam near the wind sculptures and set him free, then we'll transport him to the Arboretum and escape via the Museum of History and Industry parking lot in a small biodiesel VW car a friend of mine has.
Who's with me?
A small daring group is all it will take to rescue the founder of Gentoo - with luck on our side, skill, daring, and the element of surprise, we should be able to pull this off before the Empire gets him into Darth Gates compound!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
"Seemingly there's no scandals as Robbins managed to finalize the transfer of all Gentoo's IP to the Gentoo Foundation, Inc."
This isn't true. He has agreed to, if his lawyer approves the deal, but we are still waiting for him to transfer all IP and the domain name gentoo.org
Here is the Gentoo Not-for-profit mailing list archive and you'll see there is no mention of it yet.
http://archives.gentoo.org/ml/gentoo-trustees/
We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
-- Anais Nin
I have the Non Sequitur desk calendar right beside me. In today's comic, a group of cats dressed in suits are at a table, conducting some sort of business meeting. Sitting in one of the chairs is a mouse in a suit. The cat at the head of the table is talking to him, saying "Of course you're not a token. As a matter of fact, we hunger for more of your kind to follow you here..."
Hmmm.
wow, hell froze over twice in one month!
"What does slashdotting mean?"
"You've never heard of slashdot?"
"I know it makes websites not work."
... and so he did
Noone underestimates the power of the Microserf Side of the User Contract ...
to wait 12 months while Longhorn stage1 compile and boot!
I don't feel like it...
I think you might be on to something.
Apple is garnering hype (all publicity is good, right?) through the whole KHTML/WebCore thing. MS is standing on the sidelines with a free program it used to kill Netscape wondering why nobody uses says any words about its toy any more.
How could they make IE better? Why not join the crowd and fully release the source?
He's no genius, but Robbins has shown a knack for getting programs off the ground, generating hype, and garnering support. He made compiling cool again.
A small daring group is all it will take to rescue the founder of Gentoo - with luck on our side, skill, daring, and the element of surprise, we should be able to pull this off before the Empire gets him into Darth Gates compound!
You underestimate the Power of the Gates side of the Source, my young apprentice! All your plans have been foreseen and even now this fully operational hovercraft is approaching the traffic jam to intercept your foolhardy rebels in their vain attempt to resist the Empire!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
You are aware that a number of OSS people have been hired at major firms to "understand" OSS. No? ESR worked at HP for exactly that reason. Ppl up top in these companies are clueless about why a group would "give" away code. It takes them awhile to figure it out that GPL does not give it away (BSD does, and hopes that other will contribute). Instead, GPL switches the money from dollars to an agreement (source code will be go with the program) as well as hopes for future contributions (which like BSD, have been successful in getting it).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Jealousy does not become you sweetie.
Anonymous Cowards generally receive no replies because you're a coward and I'm a bitch
Don't you mean Bizarro Bizarro World?
I think everyone should understand that he had large credit card debts, that he tried everything he could to make it work fiscally, and that the community failed to provide the finances that would make it work.
His approach was technically superior to the other distros in its fundamental approach, and funding could have cured any detail problems. It was the right approach. He went broke, and we should all be sad at this.
The nice thing would have been if some government had funded him. None did.
Thus he works for Microsoft. I imagine he is sadly bitter about it all.
Namesys is also having payroll problems, though our problem is more due to my divorce than anything else.
Hans
(Author of Reiser4)
helping microsoft understand anything is teaching them ways to destroy it...
I know a lot of morons are making fun of MS hiring him. But very few look for the connection. It goes deeper. A few months back, MS hired the top programmer (I don't recall his name) the guy who wrote IronPython. Now drobbins who made gentoo using python scripts to build it. Now we all know that python has been ported to .NET
Mix all these 3 and think what you make of it?
As I write this, the post I am responding to is modded "Troll". Seems it is more "Insightful" than anything else.
BillG is a smart guy who surrounds himself with smart guys. MS started out of a motel room in New Mexico and didn't become a near monopoly solely out of luck any more than it did out of sheer creativity. MS is huge for a few important reasons:
1. They recognise opportunities and make maximum use of their resources and connections. MS became the "king of programming languages" for micros inthe 70s and 80s because BillG immediately saw the potential of the Altair and the desperate need for a friendlier method of programming the system. They also used their connections and networking skills to arrange a meeting with IBM re. DOS as well as to locate and purchase QDOS.
2. They are a bit sneaky--they will sell something they don't even have yet (DOS) and create demoware/vapourware to stall and kill competition in a field where they are lacking (GO/pen computing/etc--"they might have it now, but big ol' MS is gonna have it REAL SOON NOW"--yeah right).
3. THEY RESEARCH THEIR COMPETITON--MS has historically been very paranoid. Even with their position today they view EVERY competitior as one who could destroy them. When MS plays in a market they research EVERY LITTLE THING about that market and EVERY COMPETITOR. BillG himself operates that way. If he meets someone who has something interesting to talk about but BillG knows nothing about it, BillG will spend every waking moment for a couple days learning about the subject. The next time he meets that person he can talk with that person like he is a seasoned expert.
It is for that third reason why MS has a whole department of Open Source Specialists in its employ and has had for years. It is also how the Halloween Memos came to be. It doesn't matter how badly MS slags Linux or how much it scoffs at Free software--it has ALWAYS apporached it as competition with the potential to destroy Microsoft. I'm willing to bet it's been on BillG's personal radar for a decade already (when MS was just starting to realise the Internet was a game they had to play).
So the parent to this post is exactly right: MS is essentially "stockpiling ammunition" for the battle with Free software. How they will use the knowledge and people they acquire could go many ways:
1. They could use it to make their FUD sound more credible--for example, some weakness in Linux to exploit in the "get the facts" campaign or items to avoid or downplay where Linux has the advantage.
2. MS operates by acquisition, not innovation. They might have to avoid GPL code to keep its code secret, but it can at least steal IDEAS from GNU apps. It is also already well known they've lifted BSD code many times. This is OK though--at least MS software gets better as a result.
3. If they CAN'T beat Free software, they'll be prepared to "join" it. It may be a cold day in hell before MS Office is open, but if Linux meets or beats Apple's market share and all indications are that it won't go away, MS will be prepared to form a "Linux business unit" to port Office and other apps to the platform. It won't be "Free/Libre", but if MS dominates application software for Linux it can steer the platform and continue to be the industry's biggest player. This is what they have done with Apple--Microsoft is the biggest vendor of MacOS applications, and stunning industrial design aside, Macs are becoming more and more PC-like.
Yep it would be nice if MS was more cooperative, but it is just too far from their business model. MS NEEDS software to be closed or else it would have to completely re-invent itself. It is simply easier for it to try and make the competition work to its advantage or simply go away.
Let's see... you created a Linux distribution based on recompiling every piece of SW it would use. Therefore burning hundereds of hours and megawatts to squeeze performance out that is negligible at best, slower or non-functional at worst. Wow, I hope he brings that wonderful package philiosophy to Microsoft. Well, I hope he at least milks them for some good salary (sorry dude, stock options are out nowadays).
-Ho
It's official, we've crossed over into the Bizarro World.
It's not Bizarro World, it's Hell.
If you don't have a mothers basement to sleep in, it can definitely be hard sleeping while unemployed.
Those sidewalks or alleyways aren't too comfortable at night time.
and for those who have no clue what I am talking about, Kidnapped Dalek
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Lest we forget JWZ switching to Mac. Now we just need Sun to switch to ARM and start distributing free "utility computing" lego blocks in cracker jacks.
Hey, whaddya mean by "we were already laughing at you"?
Sorry, but that's not fair. While I take your point about RMS being eccentric, you have to give him credit for being a visionary, almost invariably right, and genuinely good person. Furthermore, he is a talented coder, and wrote the GPL - I think that counts as leadership.
Linus himself is a genius as a leader - he manages, almost without exception to be able to defuse any problem with grace and humour (I think Bitkeeper was an exception), and keep a whole bunch of programmers (aka cats!) in the same team (herd!).
Also, I think you miss two key points:
i)There is no such thing as a perfect leader, nor any human without feet of clay.
ii)OSS doesn't need a leader per se. Not in the same way that, say MS/Sun/HP do, anyway. We need vision, and inspiration, but we don't usually need instructions. The best thing to do is write good code, and be judged on its merits. For all the good that a "perfect leader" could do, I believe that the actual code counts for more. To pick just one example, Klaus Knopper has done more for "Linux evangelism" by producing Knoppix than he ever could by standing on a soap box.
Greenbacks talk, bullshit walks.
A source compiled system(gentoo) gives fare more flexibility and power than a binary only system.
Windows will NEVER be able to match this flexibility since you have to provide the code and how to build the software.
For this reason, gentoo is the highest threat for M$, because they know FOR SURE that they cannot match it!
If M$ people are rational and reasonable people, they should join open source development. Hiring Daniel would be a extremely good starting point!
Sell out? I'd agree if I ever spotted him saying "M$ is evil, and I'll never work there."
He took a job, he left his intellectual property interests in Gentoo to the Gentoo community. I think he did a great thing for the Gentoo community when he created the distro, and when he gave everything about it that was his to the community.
I wish him the best of luck. I don't know his values well enough to state that he sold out, since to me, selling out is sacrificing your values for money.
I don't have a problem with him wanting to be able to pay bills etc. There is a level of practicality that has to be accepted with any open source project.
What I don't understand is why it was Microsoft. The only reason that I could find acceptable was that nobody else wanted him. I'd find that a bit hard to believe.
Maybe they made a good offer, and he naively believes he can change them from the inside.
P.S., good luck with the filesystem. Sorry to hear about the divorce, hopefully it works out somewhat amicably, as much as these things can.
The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
Sell out!
With me, oh yeah!
Sell out!
With me tonight!
The evil monopolistic computer company's gonna give me lots of money and everything's gonna be alright!
(Lyrics have been slightly modified to increase applicability.)
On a sort of off-topic note, I have to ask: how does one become a "former founder" of something? He founded Gentoo, then he retroactively didn't? Who's the current founder, then?
Sean Daugherty "I have walked in Eternity -- and Eternity weeps."
I dont understand.
Yes. but MS only has his hours (9-5, maybe) and mostly oss developement are on the free time.
If Daniel still want to be a participant in oss developement, he still can be and MS cannot stop him by giving pay cheque/stock/NDA.....
How's that bad? Am I missing something?
"Helping Microsoft understand open Source..." is what Barnaby claims as his job description, too. Prior to drinking the MS Cruel-Aid, Barnaby worked for Red Hat. Now he is a model Microsoft shill, he toes the company line without fail.
Goodluck Daniel!
Has anyone stopped to think that this may be as simple as the fact that Microsoft's (and any software company for that matter) primary resource is smart people. Microsoft saw he made something that indicates he is talented, and they want talented people. Additionally, he happens to possess knowledge in a particular field that many at Microsoft do not.
If you ask me, this isn't "evil" nor is it some consipracy to destroy open source software. This is just smart (and easy!) recruiting.
http://brandonbloom.name
So, lemme see...
- Apple goes x86,
- Debian releases new stable,
- Deep Throat reveals himself,
- Robbins works for Microsoft.
Seriously, what's next? Stallman stating "Meh, GCC takes forever; i'll just buy some software at Walmart"? Duke Nukem Forever going gold? The Bitboys compiting with nVidia? Microsoft releasing the source for Internet Explorer?
Cut this shit already. Please. It's not funny anymore!
Here's the deal. 99.9999% of computer users could care less about being able to look at the underlying code. So why go to the trouble of making it available? Alright, this may be one reason why.
If anybody speaks ill of Firefox they are insulting an entire community of open source developers who generously donate their skills and time to all of humanity How could any decent human being say such a thing!. Imagine if IE was suddenly an Open Source app. If a bug is discovered who's fault is it? If features are missing who can you blame. After all if you want a feature, "you can develop it yourself"!!! Wow, Open Source is now M$ way to get on the good side of the Open Source community while transferring any blame from bugs, vulnerabilities, etc. to them at the same time!!
I'm sure that someone has posted something along these lines already, but with such a small hero sacrificing himself to the Collective, it feels a little shaky. But I'll rest assured...as long as he doesn't point his guns at anyone, he will not be attacked and assimilated.
It would be like LaForge going in to help them with their transwarp drive or sometihng. Poor LaForge. Be careful, Robbins.
Hiring of open source developers is the next big thing in HR circles I'm sure. Companies are identifying individuals with skills and experience that they seek and have full awareness of their project, project history, and quality of work. This is by far the best metric for evaluating a candidate who's ready to jump in and work on a proprietary product with minimal amounts of training or research.
A lot of individuals straight of high school/University are actively involved in Open Source development as a part time hobby. Some find it difficult to get full time jobs but their noteriety through their Open Source efforts eventually lands them in front of someone who might actually be familiar with their work. Open Source experience is nearing a 1:1 exchange rate in the currency of work experience; at least in the eyes of progressive managers (HR is a different story).
Where does that leave the project? If the company is nice, the employee is given time to work on it on the side; how much time they have thanks to full time work is a different story. With the head or leads on a project gone, it means that most projects won't survive. New leadership has to rise from the ranks to fill the gap.
1. Fresh out of University, work on Open Source project.
2. Get hired by company and ditch project.
3. Profit.
---- The geek shall inherit the Earth.
A curious development. The Evil Empire of MSFT has managed to recruit one of the lead developers of what has been touted as a bleeding edge development in the F/OSS community.
I've also heard a lot of things about how this guy is a bit of an asshole by pushing everything into his company instead of really keeping things open. Personally I didn't like Gentoo because they tended to be pretty high and mighty of themselves. But this isn't about me.
So, in short, the question remains to be answered: Are all the Gentoo supporters getting gang raped by MSFT MCSE's or not? Personally, if I was one of those who put time and effort into Gentoo development and found all the IP going into MSFT I would be pretty fucking pissed off.
Perhaps this is a sign of things to come. Will we all be watching on the sidelines as our various pet projects of the F/OSS community as the teams of corporate dogs rip every piece of meat from the bones. This is an ugly time.
I am far more interested in microsoft "playing nice" then I am hoping for their destruction.
Experience has taught us that Microsoft do not "play nice" (although it may benefit them on occasion to pretend that they do). They will not "play nice"; it is not in their corporate nature.
I had a good quote about Microsoft bookmarked somewhere (not on this system unfortunately). It was basically that Microsoft's mentality is that of a company at war and under attack from all sides; this is the mentality that got them where they are today.
Even if Open Source grows further, Microsoft will not die overnight. My personal belief is that unless they are put in a position where their existence/dominance is very seriously threatened, they will not change. When the situation *is* clear, MS will still take time to change their mindset. In short, the tiger will not change its stripes in the next 10 years.
Every large company is out to make profit. IBM aren't supporting Linux because it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling; but because they think it will benefit their business. They are "playing nice" because it suits them; but they are "playing nice" all the same.
Microsoft, on the other hand, I do not believe will ever "play nice"; they will only pretend to do so in order to get what they want.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I say we nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
This is actually the point. The post is not meant to be trollful (is that a word?) but to posit one possibly strategy.
Hiring the key person from another company is nothing new for business; it has been happening since the beginning of time.
I do not think this one hire will cripple the open source movement, nor Gentoo. But you have to look at the plain logical move--if Microsoft did hire a lot key people it is not so much a blow to open source but another marketing ploy for them.
They can now go around and say we hired x who developed this. We are now taking the brightest and they are developing for us, not them. Then when they go to present a product they can say they have the best of both worlds--longevity with the Windows developement team and the integration of the best and brightest of the open source movement. They then can do a direct comparison of products and say their development team is better, therefore the product is better. (Yes, there are rebuttals to this logical thinking, but marketing is not necesarily logical or truthful).
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I just found it odd that someone who invested time in Gentoo decided to simply jump ship and work for The Enemy.
So I just can't help but ask the question. If IE 7.0 went truely Open Source under the GPL who's fault would it be if there was a security problem? Who's to blame if a feature is missing?
C'mon guys, it's much more fun for MS to stay on the Dark Side and keep all it's code out of the Open Source community! Seriously though, isn't it?
don't think of it any other way! after all, if Microsoft 'do a Gentoo', then its STILL OPEN SOURCE ..
;)
oh, and 'we' will have won.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
what MS product would you like to see ported to Linix?
It's not Bizarro World at all... somehow Dvorak has managed to project his imagination onto our reality. Damn him and his alien technology!
MS used to recruit all the best talent out of Borland, back when borland had a better compiler.
c net
Borland filed suit to stop them. They weren't successful (obviously), although MS admitting to recruiting 34 employees of Borland.
article about it. http://news.com.com/2100-1023-279561.html?legacy=
Was that the reason he took the job? Maybe he was actually interested in it. You'd think he could have gotten a job somewhere else, unless Microsoft's employee requirements are incredibly basic.
IBM does have paid staff working on Linux kernel and other aspects of Open Source Software. I no longer work there but it's a known in the company that there is Linux development going on at IBM. In addition to the kernel hackers, IBM staff are working on Elipse, as well as porting proprietary products to run on Linux. Read recent history for the amount of cash IBM has put into Linuz development. More than any other company to date.
Too lazy to create a sig...
The real world isn't that simple. So please, stfu.
MS is a big company. Lotsa money. I would be surprised if they didn't have a variety of black project operating systems in development simultaneously. Of course Longhorn is their next premier *public* effort, but that doesn't mean they might not be "exploring" other avenues for contingecies sake. It costs them little when it's a business deduction after all.
Just like apple maintaining an x86 OSX branch for years, "just in case" is a reality that sometimes proves to be useful when you least suspect it.
So then MS therefore needs d00ds who have a proven track record of original thought as opposed to drudge work. A company needs both kinds, but it has to start with original thinkers before the hard working drudgework drones take over.
Bill Gates = The Emperor Daniel Robbins = Anakin Skywalker **doh, no photoshop hack =(**
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
5 years ago people speculated that the best way for microsoft to compete would to bring out there own distribution.
If you cant beat them (or buy them all), join them.
MS has definetly entered a new phase, looks like they realise we are a formidable competitor.
Perhaps in a few years they will embrace open source.... 5 years too late.
Have to say I have had similar thoughts.
Think of it this way, I love linux and it's concepts and principles, but a lot of the "discrediting" it does need lies within the open community is uses.
What needs to happen is the open community needs to have something to kindle the fire still, as well as something to unite them a bit more into generating app's that don't have to be compiled to be run. While I know there are some of those what is still lacking is for common users to be able to do this as well.
I know linux isn't "after" the commoner crowd however in it I see the largest "mind pool" that in my mind should be able to find ways to make things work in such a manner, make it easier and more intuitive to secure, and make it work with minimalistic user requirements.
Bear in mind that those minimalistic requirements may be a small amount more than current windows usage requirements but usage and maintenance have a huge difference in that most users want to just use the computer, therefore maintenance takes a back seat.
In short if it has a way of igniting some innovation into the community, BRING IT ON, otherwise, glad for him that he got a job, and hope him the best.
...why did you reply to yourself?
Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
Let's drag him back into poverty !!
I had the opportunity to "work" with Daniel a few months ago. I was on a project that was late and management said "Get more programmers!" My collegue and I had three resumes shoved in our face and were told to "Pick one".
We saw Daniel's resume and, since adding more programmers doesn't help, at most, he would be able to help and at least it would be cool to meet him.
Well Daniel came on and he is a very interesting and unique person, he also made it clear that he was VERY interested in exploring some of Microsoft's technology. Before anyone goes into "went to the dark side", and "bought out", the jobe he got was EXACTLY what he wanted to do.
I'm a hopeless Linux fanboy but I also have a reasonably steady job, and a good income; Daniel, at the time, did not. When I asked him about his experiences with OSS, he explained that people are VERY enthusiastic until things get hard or take time, he worked with volunteers and never had much leverage other than the good will of those he worked with.
So I salute Daniel and wish him the very best in his new career at Microsoft. In this time of geek-types getting laid off, not finding work and corporate America looking for mercinary types to get the job done, it's nice to know that an artist like Daniel still has a place; even if it's with Microsoft.
If this is the same Daniel Robbins.. I don't think it is, though. If it is, He's been living a secret squirrel life and has been at Microsoft the whole time! :O
http://research.microsoft.com/~dcr
For his treacherous betrayal, he has been stripped of his "founder" status. The new "founder" will be drawn from names in a hat at next weeks meeting.
Meh.
Since Microsoft is buying the founders of distro, I think it's time to start one. Why? I need a good job once I'm out of college and Microsoft has good benefits. Besides, sabotage from within is harder to catch.
The idea imo? It is the make both families of OS' interoperate as perfectly as possible.
L O FUCKING L.
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
How can someone be a former founder?
Information that doesn't suit our purposes goes down the memory hole...
So who is the current founder?
I am not an english speaking person and I've heard two versions of it. So how is it properly pronounced?
Gentoo - G as in 'G'ary
or
Gentoo - G as in 'J'erry?
Corny yes, but any parallels might make Daniel nervous! ;-)
Your story sounds a lot like the jailbreak from the movie Man Bites Dog.
I've really had enough of Bill Gates.
Been dumbed down lately by the interloper?
Gawd that guy is a JERK.
hint: let's make him go OUT of BUSINESS.
Do it for the young people.
It needs wood for the fire. It needs flavour and zest.
The magic of software is that the old rule "You get what you pay for" doesn't apply to it.
However, it does still apply to people. (Although a lot less than the salary of global megacorp CEO's would suggest.)
If we need people to administer and run various Open Source projects, we need to pay them. They need to make a fair living.
"Daniel, I am your father...We can rule the software Empire like Founder and Founder!"
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." - C.S. Lewis
I have liked Gentoo since the day I got through the stage 1 install. To be sure, there are some aspects of it that could stand to be improved, but that's true for ANY distro. I've never had, nor have I heard of anyone having such a 'meltdown'.
I think Robbins did an awesome job. I just wish it was some other company besides Microsoft.
Perhaps Micrsoft just wanted expert help to make their own Linux distribution.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
emerge windows
"When you grow up, your heart dies."
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
It can't be worse than the real world, at least...
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Why not?!? Considering recent experience (G.W.), I think that the founding fathers are, in fact, becoming "former", as The_One_Who_Came_Around_The_Second_Time (i.e. "born again") is becoming the new Founding Father ...
== With enough Will Power, one could move mountains. With enough Brains, one would just leave them where they are ==
Yawn. Apparently you're new here. "Go to hell MS" went out years ago. That bandwagon left...but there's a new one every hour. The "Patriot Act" bandwagon makes frequent stops...may I suggest a nice "go to hell Bush" for you?
How is it possible for a person to be a "former founder"? Once a person has "founded" something, there is no way out of that, right? This is quite different than being a former employee.
There is already talk of how this is all part of Microsoft's strategy to buy up lead developers of major OSS projects to keep them from continuing their work on said project. Remember what happened to Corel? Microsoft buys out what they see as potentially the most dangerous rival. For Gentoo, there's no company backing it, so they buy out the top man in hopes that this would stall Gentoo's development, perhaps even eventually fracture its remaining leaders. But for this to happen, likely two conditions have to be met, especially when it comes to FOSS. First, Microsoft has to perceive the threat as severe enough, and the buyout would effectively neutralize the threat. The latter is difficult with FOSS, but they can always hope. Second, the person or persons they buy out must be in a financial crisis that would make Microsoft's offer very lucrative.
But, this does not necessarily have to be a bad thing. For one, it is only fair for everyone else in the FOSS community to wish Mr. Robbins well at his new position, and the best of luck with his new employer. For another, it is good to have people who carry with them the FOSS ideology in Microsoft. While this might just be a dead end position just to serve as another move in Microsoft's game against FOSS and Linux in particular, it is more likely that they will put Mr. Robbins' skill and talent as a software developer and leader to full use. This might eventually result, however unlikely, in Microsoft participating in the FOSS community many years from now.
Finally, Gentoo is still around, and despite losing its founder as a participating developer, its existence has not been snuffed out. Others will continue to develop it, and though there may be forks as the visions of the remaining developers split, it will continue to survive so long as there is a demand for it, and there are people willing to participate in its development.
Besides, just because Mr. Robbins can't work on Gentoo or contribute to it knowledge from Microsoft doesn't mean he has to cut off all personal relationships with the other developers. Not that I'm advocating breeching contract, but it all depends on the wording of the contract, which, no matter how restricting, cannot impose upon the rights of the person outside work, unless the isn't any such thing as personal time (i.e. Microsoft is paying for a 24-hour workday, which has its own legal issues).
What that? -O6?
Of all the people Microsoft would choose to help, why on Earth would they choose a person who is deluded into thinking that an extra 5% performance increase is worth the stability loss? I thought Microsoft was supposed to be mending its ways!
about some littl3 hobbit dude going to Mordor to destroy something or other.
How does one become a "former founder" of something?
How we all recognize the truth in the parent post. We all understand the parallel. Real life is imitating art.
Maybe George knew what he was doing after all.
HBH
"Smart is sexy." -- D. Scully ("War of the Coprophages")
N/T
The funny thing is Gentoo is probably THE biggest open source zealot distro out there. I bet the forums are going crazy...I think I'll drop in.
The developers did not agree to give Daniel any profits. He set up the Gentoo Foundation, passed it to a group who were not elected, then quit the Foundation himself. They made the deal with Daniel.
Heh, this may breathe some life into the internal "Linux Users" Exchange discussion group.
"helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects." ..translates to..
.
.
"They offered me an assload of ching, no more flatbacking for gear! woohoo!"
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Writing, actually, that to defeat your enemy you have to love him, understanding alone is not enough. What if...
Well the next thing ya know ol' Jeb's a millionaire...
:-)
(I hope that's not too insulting
I sure hope that He did not sign a really restrictive NDA that ties his future to MS.
Maybe they're not that bad.. or not all of them? Check this link: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url= /archive/en-us/dnarstone/html/stone110899.asp
Speaking of which, I want out of this parallel universe, where's the Linux dominating one?
No more I say.
Not to downplay your plans, but thousands of new apprentices are joining the Open Force movement every day. Not many of them are fully awoken, yet. Many of those will even never become a true master of the Force, still they help us in our fight against the empire by pointing the Way. Loosing a master may feel painful now, but the Force is already attracting replacement troops. Yes, troops, the power of the Force lies in it's multitude.
Besides this, we haven't had communications with Daniel Robbins recently so his plans might be cloaked. I feel this event as only a small disturbance in the Force. The Force is strong!
May the Counsel of the FSF guide your ways.
Uh, yeah, sure, M$ hired him just to learn more about a platform THAT YOU CAN DOWNLOAD FOR FREE AND SEE EVERY BYTE OF SOURCE CODE YOURSELF. Absolutely, I'll believe that for a dollar.
Thanks Danniel! for all your work, the Gentoo community is with you.
- Slayer_X
http://www.slayerx.org/
Lima
is found in MS products at least we will know who leaked it.
-he who laughs last, is a bit slow.
journal
Ahem, the apple ][ used its BASIC interpreter as a an interactive shell. Most interpreters have no problem being used interactively.
Okay, I'm in the middle of my examms, about everything in my virtual world collapses (apple=>intel etc), they are fixing 'something' in the appartement where I live. And now, my fav OS getting bought out be the FUXING MicroSoft BULLSHIT firm?
This ain't funny dudes, make me wake up PLEASE!
If only users would donate more, maybe he would come back...
By the time you hit this post, you will have spent four mod points trying to shut me out of the debate. I have karma to spare, as if my whole life revolved around it. And a blog where I can post about the topic even more. I would think you were doing this to express an honest opinion, were you to have not picked such random reasons to waste your points.
I don't insist I'm right. I don't even think I'm smart. But my points are well-considered, and I voice them because of the possibility that it will stimulate the common good.
Microsoft is as dangerous as a cornered lion, right now. Later, they'll be IBM: great in their day, but de-fanged so that the rest of us can breathe around them again. But now, they do not realize it. All they know is how to panic.
The symptoms of that panic are evident every day. The effects of that panic will be viscious attacks on our software freedom. Microsoft trying to Borg the whole Open-Source world one at a time will do no one any good; it just prolongs the battle. No matter *who* they recruit, you have two nearly identical products (*cough* that's a hand-wave!), one free, one costs $179.00.
And Robbins knows in his heart everything I've said here. But the money mattered more.
Any Linux user should be thinking right now, "What if Microsoft eats it *ALL* ?" We should at least express our outrage, to send a message. To fortify those who cannot be so easily persuaded.
(-1, nitpicker)
My new blog
you can't *quite* get away with that in corporate america just yet, but the next best thing, when you have X*10 billion dollars in the bank getting moldy, is just to hire them away.
sorry to interrupt all the guffawin' and shuckin' and jivin'. carry on with the lame star wars references and other assorted jokery.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
> Personally I side with Daniel completely (ok, here goes the karma), he's gotten
> himself in with a suceessful company hopefully with a career path, and he
> is still the founder of Gentoo.
If he really did "lose his shirt" founding Gentoo, then that sucks. Personally, I don't know all the details, and I know I wouldn't have been prepared to go that far.
But that having been said- I don't give a flying f*** for the guy if he wants to join Microsoft. I'm not going to equate working for MS with boiling babies, but anyone working for the company knows (or should know) what they are. As a random (and relatively unimportant) Slashdotter, I don't want to come across as a self-important embittered geek ranting away at someone (who is smarter and more talented than me) betraying the cause.
But really; the guy is smart, and he chose to work at MS knowing their modus operandi full well. Bearing that in mind, I'll just say that he's on his own, and (minor slack for Gentoo aside) I wouldn't consider him any more deserving of respect or prosperity than any other MS employee.
More generally, people don't "deserve" *anything* (as you say) simply because they're "extremely intelligent". This is arrogant geek-centric elitist-think at its worst. A person only "deserves" something if they use their talents to benefit people. If they choose to use those skills to benefit themselves, that's their choice, but they don't "deserve" anything beyond what the market agrees to pay for their services. Ditto leadership.
A sensible marketplace will pay for skills. This should *not* be confused with "deserving" anything.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
emerge longhorn! emerge!
Once my favourite actor said about mentality of such people: "I'm sorry I worked for GESTAPO but I had to support my family in some way."
*Popular Linux Distro seeking Non-Borg Founder.
emerge founder!
Meh
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
This just ain't funny.
"Daniel and the Lion's Den" type headlines, anyone?
Facebook is a woodpecker tapping on the skull of Humanity, Forever.
They make it sound like he got the intellectual rights transfered just in time. I remember reading Accidental Millionaire (a good story about the history of Apple Computers, Jobs being the Accidental Millionaire there) where Wozniak had to keep a lot of his development a secret from HP (think it was HP) or they'd immediately get rights to it. So, I'd assume the Gentoo guy made a priority on protecting such a serious accomplishment.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Am i the only one who feels embaressed about this? What kind of message is this going to send? "The open source business model is so crap that they loose their leaders to their sworn enemy, M$" I realized he did that because he was broke, but thats the problem, Gentoo is one of the most popular distros, why is its founder broke?! this makes me re-think the whole opensource thing, I mean I love my Linux as much as the next geek, but which one of can realistically make a living out of FOSS? P.S. no more star war analogies please John
maybe he should have gone with Shallax.
Seriously, good luck to you lad.
There are a FEW good folk out there at MS.
The rest is a zoo.
It annoys me that F/OSS zealots will flame this guy for going to Microsoft but no one cares about Jordan Hubbard going to Apple. Why is this?
I respect all of these guys for the contributions that they have made to the community, so what is wrong with wanting to get a little cash now? If you really have a problem with his decision than don't use his products. Don't use Gentoo anymore or Microsoft.
Really, I just want you all to quit whining about one guy and not about another. It's just like all of the tools who love Apple and hate Microsoft even though the only fucking reason Apple is around is because MS dumped a bunch of money on them.
get a clue b4 you start flaming.
Like everyone else I cracked a joke about this,but it had to be a painful thing for this guy to do.
He gave a lot to the open source community, probably taking a lot of abuse in the process.
Now, he is taking care of himself.
What a wonderful I.T. world it would be if even 1/8 of all new M$ employees had to make a major contribution to OS before joinging MS.
I would like to convey my best wishes to him in his future.
Please ignore the slashdot-holes
To think that Anders and 34 employees would go to microsoft and leave the compiler they loved, and grew up with, just shows you how low humans will go.
... just to tell them that a slow but steady progress in the open-source sector will render their business useless somewhen?
The markt evolves. Microsoft doesn't adapt. That's the problem. Why don't they just ask RedHat? Embracing open-source solutions in their Windows OS would just speed up their own death. They have to shift their paradigm of operation towards actual services... selling the same sh** over and over just cannot work out in the long run.
Balmer becomes Debian Maintainer
HardOCP endorses Phantom
Youth group participation explode in Korea.
In Soviet Russia people Vote. Wait....
OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
We are Microsoft. Resistance is futile. Your culture will adapt to service ours. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Prepare to be assimilated.
C:> 1-merge -av sys-os/longhorn
...done!
These are the packages that I would merge, in order:
Calculating dependencies
[ebuild N ] sys-os/dos-6.22 1.44 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-3.11 15 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-95 500 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-98SE 1000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-ME 2000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-NT-4 3000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-2000 4000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-XP 5000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/windows-2003 6000 kB
[ebuild N ] app-antivirus/NAV-2005 175 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-plugins/security-patch-cvs 10000000000 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-os/longhorn 10000 kB
Total size of downloads: a lot of kBs
Do you have lots of balls? [Yes/No] _
I think Sun Open-sourcing parts of Solaris is enough, thanks. I'd forgot to mention that one.
Dining with the Chancellor Palpatine. And we thought he was the Hope.
... you know the rest