So, I guess what you're saying is that these people, who could have created their own website, were justified by defacing NASAs because no one would have read theirs. Yes, I think that's what a lot of people here are arguing.
Someone has to fight for those with no voice... NASA can surely clean up their site in very little time, assuming they have a good backup. And from what I've seen, most groups that deface a web site just rename the index file and copy their own. A 30 second clean up fixes the page and a half hour meeting the next business day addresses the security hole.
If I were the admin, I'd be unhappy, yes. It'd be more of an annoyance, really. I'd also expect that sort of thing if I worked for a government agency. How could you not? I worked at the Natural Histry Museum in DC and was harassed on a regular basis by fundies who didn't lik the idea of a government institution talking about evolution. But again, I expected that sort of thing. Hell, I half expected one of them to bomb the place, too.
And how you know it was truely destructive? I don't remember anything in the article about them destrying the content... Besides How long does it really take to restore the site from a backup?
Do you mean to tell me that the citizens of a South American country that elected a woman president can't protest and make the world news?
The mainstream media is so in love with Bush, it isn't even covering the protests in the US. Why would they cover a protest in Chile? What a shock the CNN and MSNBC have no mention of the protests in NYC, LA, and Dearborn, MI. Fox has a broken link to a story, which I'm sure has been deleted.
I'm in Hartford, CT today and have seen at least three protests going on. Where is the coverage of the protests? Please point me in the right direction...
but don't exepct me to care what you have to say when you can't make your voice heard in a public and legal forum.
Yeah... like not giving up your seat on the bus or demanding to be able to vote without passing test or paying the poll tax in Alabama. How dare they break the law to make a point. Civil disobedience has no place in free society. Sheesh...
Um... I know for a fact that most of the vocals recorded on Jagged Little Pill from Alanis were done with a $70 ART Tube Mic Pre and an SM-57. The SM-57 was the only way they could get her vocals without the mic distorting and that little ART warms the vocals very nicely.
It's not the equipment, it's the engineer and the producer. Look at the type of equipment someone like Steve Albini uses when producing. It's almost two tin cans and a string, but he gets amazing sound because he knows what he's doing.
But to think you have to spend a million dollars on expensive equipment show a shocking lack of experience and practical know-how.
Unless you went to Full-Sail, then I can understand your snobbery.
I agree. Games have gotten pretty boring and predictable. Now they're prettier, boring a predictable.....it's about as beneficial in the long-term as replacing your worn out horsewhip.
I just replaced my cat-o-nine tails and my girlfriend is so greatful... I would have replaced the horsewhip, but Julia Roberts is no longer available for dates.
I can think of one app that I'd use a lot... ssh. Is that available on the Treo as is? Having an actual file system would be pretty kick ass too. FTP? Being able to grab config files while out on the road and then work on them directly on my handheld anywhere in the world wold get me to buy it too. Sitting in Central Park on a nice spring day while having a picnic and still getting my work done. Awesome. A hell of lot lighter than a laptop, too.
I talk to my friends in Finland all the time using SkypeIn and SkypeOut and have no more delay that I would with a regular cell phone. In fact the last time I was in Helsinki, I called one of my friends on her cell phone who was sitting across the table from me at an internet cafe and the delay was almost non-existant.
Gimme a break... this is schoolyard recess crap. Most of us outgrew this in fourth grade.
You are talking about a country full of consumers that made Pet Rocks a top selling item for Christmas several years in a row. This kind of advertising does work. It's sad, but it's true.
How are they going to earn that back from a "free" VoIP service?
By charging for extras.
I have a number in the US, one in Finland, and one in Sweden. Plus I use it to call out to people with cell phones and land lines all over the US, Asia, and Europe.
I pay for these extras, but it is so worth it.
Maybe next time you should educate youself on a company's business model before you trash it.
What if I bought my shares two years ago. Do I now get a free pass?
It's all in what you know. The moment you know what the money you invest is being used for something morally wrong, you then might say you have the moral responsibility to pull your investment or leverage it for a change.
What about the charity which accepts a Linksys product?
Some things are unavoidable, but that does not make a wrong a right.
Under your definition if you have any say in something you are therefore morally responsible... I believe you have to have the power of the situation and have to be the one making the action in order to be morally responsible.
Wouldn't having a say in something would be a definition of having power of a situation? Are you saying that people who sat and watched the Holocaust happen and did and said nothing hold absolutely no responsibility? I think they hold some responsibility.
How you spend your money has a huge impact in other places. You are right in saying that there are no black and white answers, but that does not abosolve responsibility. No one is innocent. Not me(just did a rather large Cisco install), not you, no one. However, knowing how your actions impact other people means you can change what you can and make up for what you can't.
It is not imposing real change, nor is it a step in the right direction. It's just media attention.
Just the fact that this discussion is happening means that the actions of these stock holders is affecting change. Talking is the first step to changing anything. Just because Cisco hasn't stopped selling everything right away doesn't mean that this action was useless. Media attention is power.
By this logic, if someone voted for Clinton in the past is morally responsible for the Monica Lewinski affair.
I don't recall Clinton saying he was going to have an affair during his campaign. So no. They had no idea this was going to happen, they are not responsible. It's not a good example anyway. An affair is not really on the same scale as censoring billions of people. Now Bush, on the other hand, said he was going to continue his war mongering, so if you vote for him, you are partialy responsible.
Cisco sold their product with full knowledge that it was going to be used to censor people, therefore they have some responsibility.
If I let a tree grow and then leave a stick on the ground am I morally responsible if someone pokes someone else with the stick.
No. Unless you intended that growth to be used in that way.
It's more like this... If you know that the shoes you're about to buy were made by a ten year old forced into wage slavery and you buy them anyway, then you share the responsibility. If you buy them and two years later you find out, you share no responsability, unless you buy them again with that knowledge.
So, if you invest in Cisco knowing that they are knowingly selling equipmen that is being used for cesnsorship and you don't use your voting power to try and change their policies, then you hold some of that responsability.
You miss the point. Even if they win it does nothing.
It does a lot. It makes Cisco answer questions they may might wish to avoid. It's a step in the right direction. It doesn't change everthing right away. But, with your logic, if you can't change everything right away, it's not worth trying because it does nothing. School must have sucked for you.
This is where the argument is flawed and this statement comes in. In a market where there is more than one vendor unless you have all agreeing to no supply the Chinese with the hardware anything you do at one company will not have an impact.
Maybe, but at last this stockholder's investment dollar is not going to support it. One vote doesn't make a difference either, so why bother voting?
It's like saying I am morally responsible for what actions the President of the United States does if I voted for him. Does it make me responsible? No, don't think so.
Sure it does. He didn't hide his agenda when running for office and if you voted for him, you put your political power behind his statements. If you voted for Bush, you have no room to complain. You voted for war and policies based around oil and you got what you asked for.
It's the same with these people using their voting stock to say something. Even if it goes to a vote and they lose, they have made their intentions clear. Therefore it's the people who vote to let Cisco keep providing the tools of oppression who have the responsability of helping to censor a population.
I don't buy Nike and I don't buy from Wal-Mart. Will other people? Sure they will. I cannot make a choice for them. If they want to ignore the fact that the product they are buying supports sweatshops that employ 12 year-olds working 16 hours a day, there is not a whole lot I can do about it. I just know that I am not supplying the money to do this. I opt out.
Yes, Newspapers do use recycled paper, but imagine the money the industry would save on ink, presses, personel to run them, etc. Just down load a PDF, and you could make the cupons electronic, so that you just swipe a card that the publisher gives you and you get the savings right there at the store without having to cut a damn thing.
NeoOffice/J runs only a little slow on my G4 Cube but fully functional and quite stable, plus I can now share documents between my Windows, Mac, Solaris, and Linux boxes with NeoOffice/J-OpenOffice.
But sometimes, outrageous whining about the bitterness of change makes the entirety taste a little sweeter.
I know what you mean. The original ending of Jedi had Lea and Duckie getting together, but Lucas changed it to Luke confronting his father after a negative reaction from a test audience.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes... that is what I am saying...
Just like I agree with people who deface billboards.
Someone has to fight for those with no voice... NASA can surely clean up their site in very little time, assuming they have a good backup. And from what I've seen, most groups that deface a web site just rename the index file and copy their own. A 30 second clean up fixes the page and a half hour meeting the next business day addresses the security hole.
And how you know it was truely destructive? I don't remember anything in the article about them destrying the content... Besides How long does it really take to restore the site from a backup?
Do you mean to tell me that the citizens of a South American country that elected a woman president can't protest and make the world news?
The mainstream media is so in love with Bush, it isn't even covering the protests in the US. Why would they cover a protest in Chile? What a shock the CNN and MSNBC have no mention of the protests in NYC, LA, and Dearborn, MI. Fox has a broken link to a story, which I'm sure has been deleted.
I'm in Hartford, CT today and have seen at least three protests going on. Where is the coverage of the protests? Please point me in the right direction...
but don't exepct me to care what you have to say when you can't make your voice heard in a public and legal forum.
Yeah... like not giving up your seat on the bus or demanding to be able to vote without passing test or paying the poll tax in Alabama. How dare they break the law to make a point. Civil disobedience has no place in free society. Sheesh...
...I've been able to write me name in the snow for years.
Um... I know for a fact that most of the vocals recorded on Jagged Little Pill from Alanis were done with a $70 ART Tube Mic Pre and an SM-57. The SM-57 was the only way they could get her vocals without the mic distorting and that little ART warms the vocals very nicely.
It's not the equipment, it's the engineer and the producer. Look at the type of equipment someone like Steve Albini uses when producing. It's almost two tin cans and a string, but he gets amazing sound because he knows what he's doing.
But to think you have to spend a million dollars on expensive equipment show a shocking lack of experience and practical know-how.
Unless you went to Full-Sail, then I can understand your snobbery.
That would be the "iPaw'd"
HAHAHAHAHA!
Thank you folks! I'll be here all week. Try the lutefisk!
I agree. Games have gotten pretty boring and predictable. Now they're prettier, boring a predictable.. ...it's about as beneficial in the long-term as replacing your worn out horsewhip.
I just replaced my cat-o-nine tails and my girlfriend is so greatful... I would have replaced the horsewhip, but Julia Roberts is no longer available for dates.
I can think of one app that I'd use a lot... ssh. Is that available on the Treo as is? Having an actual file system would be pretty kick ass too. FTP? Being able to grab config files while out on the road and then work on them directly on my handheld anywhere in the world wold get me to buy it too. Sitting in Central Park on a nice spring day while having a picnic and still getting my work done. Awesome. A hell of lot lighter than a laptop, too.
What a great sysadmin tool.
The more I think about it, the more I want one...
I talk to my friends in Finland all the time using SkypeIn and SkypeOut and have no more delay that I would with a regular cell phone. In fact the last time I was in Helsinki, I called one of my friends on her cell phone who was sitting across the table from me at an internet cafe and the delay was almost non-existant.
Brains!!!!!
..a damn tool!!!
I enjoy salt with my Dvorak, but that's just me.
Salt? I take Dvorak with Lot's Wife.
Gimme a break... this is schoolyard recess crap. Most of us outgrew this in fourth grade.
You are talking about a country full of consumers that made Pet Rocks a top selling item for Christmas several years in a row. This kind of advertising does work. It's sad, but it's true.
How are they going to earn that back from a "free" VoIP service?
By charging for extras.
I have a number in the US, one in Finland, and one in Sweden. Plus I use it to call out to people with cell phones and land lines all over the US, Asia, and Europe.
I pay for these extras, but it is so worth it.
Maybe next time you should educate youself on a company's business model before you trash it.
You could always eat the TV before Mr. Right Bleeding Bastard gets there...
What if I bought my shares two years ago. Do I now get a free pass?
It's all in what you know. The moment you know what the money you invest is being used for something morally wrong, you then might say you have the moral responsibility to pull your investment or leverage it for a change.
What about the charity which accepts a Linksys product?
Some things are unavoidable, but that does not make a wrong a right.
Under your definition if you have any say in something you are therefore morally responsible... I believe you have to have the power of the situation and have to be the one making the action in order to be morally responsible.
Wouldn't having a say in something would be a definition of having power of a situation? Are you saying that people who sat and watched the Holocaust happen and did and said nothing hold absolutely no responsibility? I think they hold some responsibility.
How you spend your money has a huge impact in other places. You are right in saying that there are no black and white answers, but that does not abosolve responsibility. No one is innocent. Not me(just did a rather large Cisco install), not you, no one. However, knowing how your actions impact other people means you can change what you can and make up for what you can't.
It is not imposing real change, nor is it a step in the right direction. It's just media attention.
Just the fact that this discussion is happening means that the actions of these stock holders is affecting change. Talking is the first step to changing anything. Just because Cisco hasn't stopped selling everything right away doesn't mean that this action was useless. Media attention is power.
I don't recall Clinton saying he was going to have an affair during his campaign. So no. They had no idea this was going to happen, they are not responsible. It's not a good example anyway. An affair is not really on the same scale as censoring billions of people. Now Bush, on the other hand, said he was going to continue his war mongering, so if you vote for him, you are partialy responsible.
Cisco sold their product with full knowledge that it was going to be used to censor people, therefore they have some responsibility.
If I let a tree grow and then leave a stick on the ground am I morally responsible if someone pokes someone else with the stick.
No. Unless you intended that growth to be used in that way.
It's more like this... If you know that the shoes you're about to buy were made by a ten year old forced into wage slavery and you buy them anyway, then you share the responsibility. If you buy them and two years later you find out, you share no responsability, unless you buy them again with that knowledge.
So, if you invest in Cisco knowing that they are knowingly selling equipmen that is being used for cesnsorship and you don't use your voting power to try and change their policies, then you hold some of that responsability.
You miss the point. Even if they win it does nothing.
It does a lot. It makes Cisco answer questions they may might wish to avoid. It's a step in the right direction. It doesn't change everthing right away. But, with your logic, if you can't change everything right away, it's not worth trying because it does nothing. School must have sucked for you.
Maybe, but at last this stockholder's investment dollar is not going to support it. One vote doesn't make a difference either, so why bother voting?
It's like saying I am morally responsible for what actions the President of the United States does if I voted for him. Does it make me responsible? No, don't think so.
Sure it does. He didn't hide his agenda when running for office and if you voted for him, you put your political power behind his statements. If you voted for Bush, you have no room to complain. You voted for war and policies based around oil and you got what you asked for.
It's the same with these people using their voting stock to say something. Even if it goes to a vote and they lose, they have made their intentions clear. Therefore it's the people who vote to let Cisco keep providing the tools of oppression who have the responsability of helping to censor a population.
I don't buy Nike and I don't buy from Wal-Mart. Will other people? Sure they will. I cannot make a choice for them. If they want to ignore the fact that the product they are buying supports sweatshops that employ 12 year-olds working 16 hours a day, there is not a whole lot I can do about it. I just know that I am not supplying the money to do this. I opt out.
Yes, Newspapers do use recycled paper, but imagine the money the industry would save on ink, presses, personel to run them, etc. Just down load a PDF, and you could make the cupons electronic, so that you just swipe a card that the publisher gives you and you get the savings right there at the store without having to cut a damn thing.
NeoOffice/J runs only a little slow on my G4 Cube but fully functional and quite stable, plus I can now share documents between my Windows, Mac, Solaris, and Linux boxes with NeoOffice/J-OpenOffice.
MicroWho?
But sometimes, outrageous whining about the bitterness of change makes the entirety taste a little sweeter. I know what you mean. The original ending of Jedi had Lea and Duckie getting together, but Lucas changed it to Luke confronting his father after a negative reaction from a test audience.
Ooh! 3D! Now I can have my childhood joy obliterated all over again by poor direction, flat characters, acting and dialogue.
You can only lose you innocence once. It's done.. over... move on. Please.
Geez. Next thing you know people will be complaining about Van Halen not having David Lee Roth anymore.
Flux is what keeps the universe going...
It's nice to see that the legacy of Jesse Berst is not forsaken...
...like "Too Much Time On My Hands" from Styx.
Most of the people I know buying the MacMini are using for this purpose. $500 is pretty cheap for soemthing like this.