Not you, but TFA seems to wish to claim that nothing new can come from a program which has some age. When information is leaked, the information is "New" and might also be "News". No, I'm not surprised that a paid government officer would try to spin things. I only worry that a majority will believe them. Majority as in who Rush Limbaugh refers to as "low information voters".
To first answer TFA's question, the answer is "yes" and "no". It really depends on the context. Has the NSA, CIA, DHS, FBI, ATF, and just about every other 3 letter acronym caused problems? Yes! Have they extended problems or made them worse? Yes! Are they the only actors when it comes to stealing data and unauthorized access? No, but they are the only agency immune to prosecution and punishment for those actions.
Now to your point. Sure, what I post on Slashdot or Facebook is considered public and I should not expect privacy on that data. That is only a portion, and not even the largest portion of what is being captured and placed under surveillance. What I store on my laptop, PC, or private device and do not share is definitely not public domain. If I turn on location detection on my phone I am asking to be tracked, when an operator uses access point triangulation from the device it's out of my control. The latter is due mostly to the Government mandating that this device information is available.
If you wish to claim that a person has no expectation of privacy I'll ask why that is? Because manufacturers knowingly reduced security to allow Government access, or because they are just idiots that don't care about consumers. The former is the answer, the latter is delusion.
If anyone was to mod you a troll, it should be for requesting it and not using punctuation. Perhaps because the opinion you provide is the same exact talking point that the politicians pushing for the back doors uses to justify it and never considers the actual problem or even hints at solving it. "If you have nothing to hide", "it's all connected anyway", and "too late to change things now" are all just excuses to maintain a status quo which harms individual liberty. Oh, and I have heard all about the founding fathers of the country being "terrorists" too so you can save that rhetoric.
I should have added that the "charge" does not equate to a conviction, but if you can't afford a few years of legal battle (250K) and at least a few days in custody the conviction does not matter. Being arrested and perceived as a liability is enough to ruin your career.
I happen to have well over 15 years experience in the same field. My argument was not that you can't have agreements, but that you must have the agreements to even perform something as simple as a port scan. The CEH and CISSP course books first several chapters are dedicated to covering the legal issues (heavy US law, big ticket items with International Law). NMAP documentation also points out that just port scanning may result in a felony charge at a maximum, but at a minimum you could be sued for damages.
15 years ago I could run port scans without too much worry about being prosecuted as long as the intention was good and I didn't DOS someone in the process. Today, not a chance in hell I'd ever work without the correct legal agreements in place.
IMHO, a big problem is that today people perceive they can be a l337 H@X0R with nothing more than minimum knowledge of nmap and metasploit. They picture White Hat hacking as identical to Black Hat, but playing for the other team. It has not been that simple for a decade, and the majority of IT Security today is not hacking. If you can't present findings, define test methods, determine compensating controls, etc.. etc... then you are not going to last long in the field.
This is the same stupid ass statement she made at the press conference. No matter what you saw on TV or read on some interweb rag site, guys in black suits wearing sun glasses doing back flips over laser beams and plopping at the console is actually the least likely scenario for a computer to become compromised.
From TFA Recently, my boss approached me about offering security evaluation and penetration testing to customers in our area due to the increasing number of regulations companies area are having to meet
Does not appear to be internal testing from internal IPs that is the question now does it?
Go ahead and run NMAP against a company. Even worse, go ahead and attempt to exploit what you find. After you get out of jail we can discuss why you were wrong in your advice and actions. Simply running nmap against someone is enough to result in at least one felony charge.
If you ever bothered to read the preface to the CEH course, CISSP course, or any other certification for hacking you would this exact thing spelled out very clearly. White Hat hacking is mostly paperwork to cover your ass, not just hacking. The latter part is maybe 10% of your job, maybe..
Any IT Security professional will tell you the same thing, unless they are BS'ing like you are:)
I really don't see age as a qualifier for the question. If you want to be a MD at 60 go for it, let alone a Pen tester at 30. The biggest thing is to get certified. Personally I recommend CEH (Certified Ethical Hacking). Why? Because it will beat into your head how many laws you potentially break every time you do something, provides a rigid set of guidelines to follow to stay out of jail, and additionally demonstrates to potential customers that you have a clue.
CISSP is usually better for Auditors, not so much Penn testers but small shops often perform double duty.
If the first paragraph did not make it clear enough, make sure you have an attorney handy to draw up agreements. You really don't want to do this off the cuff without legal framework, the penalties are too severe.
I don't care about "you", and you did not even attempt to argue agains my statement. What you have demonstrated in this thread attempting to game the system by using multiple accounts to hoard Karma. So not just delusion, but grandiose delusion. Seek professional help.
You seem to know nothing about work habits except your own. I know absolutely zero people in the workplace that use their Laptop or Desktop to only check email. Sales and Marketing people are in presentations and spreadsheets all day, Technical writers are constantly editing documents and images, coders are pushing and pulling code all day, Managers are pulling and formatting reports, Ops is pulling patches and data while writing scripts, HR is on every resume web site thereis and creating docs all day, everyone has to use some type of social media, chat program, accessing corporate web sites for their daily work.
Sure, everyone is using email "too" but very few people today have a job where they "only need to check email".
If the premise is false then the conclusion is most likely false. Similarly, if the premise is exclusionary then the conclusion will also be exclusionary. I do realize that "white males" are the favorite punching bag for claims of discrimination, but the point is that discrimination is everywhere and employed by all sorts of people. Women hating on men, blacks hating on whites, Christians hating on Muslims, Muslims hating on non-Muslims, etc.. etc..
The problem is exacerbated by media who keeps issues in the spotlights, occasionally even inventing them. This is one of many ways that the powerful remain in power.. by making us bicker with each other.
If you doubt that discrimination is universal then visit a place like Saudi Arabia carrying a Bible and wearing a cross. Go to Harlem, Detroit, Compton, etc.. if you are white. Tell just about anyone that you are Jewish if you are. That we make a big deal of these differences 2,500 years after we should know better is a different issue (referring to Plato's "The Republic").
Since the world is full of idiots, you can only attempt to idiot proof the world with rules like "no selfie sticks". Just like they had to ban countless hiking trails because the self proclaimed 'nature lovers' would leave mounds of shit and graffiti all over the place.
Normally I'm pretty libertarian and say leave people alone. There are limits however, these being two of them.
The unqualified labeling of my opinion as "arrogant" is an ad hominem. I would suggest you actually attempt to educate yourself on rhetoric prior to making false claims a fourth time.
Seems like there is a trend with your thought process, and it happens to be irrational and delusional.
Thanks for meeting my expectation and thrice demonstrating your thought process.
Funny that you claim I come off as arrogant after I corrected your behavior. Did you ever consider that it was your arrogance provoked my response? The obvious difference is that I chose not to go the ad hominem route, I demonstrated it instead.
Perhaps you should read what you write prior to posting and pretend that you are the recipient. What I gather from your two posts is not limited to arrogance, but self righteousness as well.
No. I don't expect an apology for your rudeness, in fact I expect the opposite.
This is where you should begin to wonder who is controlling these movements. I saw the signs women were holding during their rallies in India. Signs were in English and matching the exact rhetoric we see on signs in the US Feminist movement. "End gender based sexual assault". So men that are raped are not allowed in _their_ arguments, and neither are women raped by other women. The former is a staggeringly high statistic if you include incarceration, and the latter seems to match male on female rape by percentages.
No, it's not just prison where men get raped but county jail for events like exercising your first amendment rights.. er.. illegally protesting.
The unfortunate fact is that men are victims of sexual assault by women as well as other men. In the US we have a double standard, where a female sexually assaulting a male is always a victim somehow. The male victims are pressured into not talking, and often refused the ability to pursue charges. How many of the female teachers found to be sexually assaulting minor students have been charged and registered as sex offenders? Yeah, go ahead and check that number.
Finally, no! My comments are not intended or implied to justify the case TFA discusses. ALL sexual assault is wrong. What my comments are intended to do is show the double standards, which has the known consequence of intensifying aggressive acts like sexual assaults.
Oh stop it! We live in a society that has said accuracy does not matter. Kids are fine to spell however they want, do math however they want, and facts they don't like can be ignored. In fact students will receive A+ grades for getting everything wrong.
If you want to correct someone, that is fine. Don't attempt to insult them with lacking education however, when the government mandated education system is actually producing the problem.
Why bother? Some people want to wrap themselves up in an American flag.
But seriously, I don't think it is practical for you to judge for someone else if the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Everyone has different priorities and different ideas of what is a major disadvantage or merely a minor inconvenience.
If I lived abroad I wouldn't bother paying or filing. But that's me, I'm okay being a scofflaw about things I think are unfair. I'd rather give the money to a lawyer than pay some unreasonable fines.
Ahh, so if my answer does not match your opinion I should not answer the question stated explicitly in TFA. Glad to know how you think, or don't.
In addition to having the tax burden, they are not going to have an advantage in college due to US citizenship. "State" citizenship is what matters, so your kids will be paying out of State tuition and be on a waiting list (if it applies) to that school anyway.
Tax evasion is a federal offense. While technically if they make no income they are not required to "pay" they may still be in harassed and even jailed if someone wanted to investigate why they didn't file. So much for visiting Grandma right?.
If you have no plans of moving them to the US then why bother? The cons don't outweigh the burden in this case, but they can change their mind at 18 and file if they wish.
Every single mission you mentioned required massive amounts of manpower to get into flight. Every single mission still requires humans to review data and make adjustments if necessary. I cautioned about using drones as an example, and should have included space missions in that warning. Sadly people can't make distinctions on their own when it may harm their fragile belief system.
Wrong on just about every account. It is not a matter of the alternative, it's a matter of what happens when an incident occurs and how a human is still the fail safe. Under many circumstances I would agree that auto-pilot is better. Long boring drives where the weather is good and the car operates normally being one of those. Where the automatic goodies fail is always when the unexpected occurs. A deer jumps out of the trees in front of the car, road debris too small for sensors or human eyes destroy a tire, weak pavement gives way, a patch of ice on a stretch road, etc.. etc.. We see the exact same thing in flight, and interestingly people here attribute a crashing plane to the human even when the human had to intervene because the plane was crashing despite automatic controls.
One day all of these exceptions can be built into software making the computers reaction better, but we are not there yet. TFA is not talking about having untrained people in cars in a decade, it's equating with current technology. So are you by the way. Arguing that we have all of these things covered in autopilot is provably false. Google cars can't drive today in poor weather, and a blowing paper bag is see as the same thing as a concrete block to sensors.
As I said below you can't compare automating complex issues like this to figuring how the physics for how lift works. It is not the same thing and not the same level of complexity.
Figuring out the laws of physics required for lift is not the same thing as automating a complex task that limited numbers of humans can perform. I gave the example in automation, and you simply plucked something out of the air to say "nuh uh".
Show me where automating flight has been perfected to the point where we no longer require humans. We have not done so, and that is the measure we need to make.
Slashdot Mirror
Not you, but TFA seems to wish to claim that nothing new can come from a program which has some age. When information is leaked, the information is "New" and might also be "News". No, I'm not surprised that a paid government officer would try to spin things. I only worry that a majority will believe them. Majority as in who Rush Limbaugh refers to as "low information voters".
To first answer TFA's question, the answer is "yes" and "no". It really depends on the context. Has the NSA, CIA, DHS, FBI, ATF, and just about every other 3 letter acronym caused problems? Yes! Have they extended problems or made them worse? Yes! Are they the only actors when it comes to stealing data and unauthorized access? No, but they are the only agency immune to prosecution and punishment for those actions.
Now to your point. Sure, what I post on Slashdot or Facebook is considered public and I should not expect privacy on that data. That is only a portion, and not even the largest portion of what is being captured and placed under surveillance. What I store on my laptop, PC, or private device and do not share is definitely not public domain. If I turn on location detection on my phone I am asking to be tracked, when an operator uses access point triangulation from the device it's out of my control. The latter is due mostly to the Government mandating that this device information is available.
If you wish to claim that a person has no expectation of privacy I'll ask why that is? Because manufacturers knowingly reduced security to allow Government access, or because they are just idiots that don't care about consumers. The former is the answer, the latter is delusion.
If anyone was to mod you a troll, it should be for requesting it and not using punctuation. Perhaps because the opinion you provide is the same exact talking point that the politicians pushing for the back doors uses to justify it and never considers the actual problem or even hints at solving it. "If you have nothing to hide", "it's all connected anyway", and "too late to change things now" are all just excuses to maintain a status quo which harms individual liberty. Oh, and I have heard all about the founding fathers of the country being "terrorists" too so you can save that rhetoric.
Do you think Google or Facebook buy millions of server nodes from Dell or HP? No. ....
Actually "Yes", no matter what you fabricate attempting to counter facts.
I should have added that the "charge" does not equate to a conviction, but if you can't afford a few years of legal battle (250K) and at least a few days in custody the conviction does not matter. Being arrested and perceived as a liability is enough to ruin your career.
I happen to have well over 15 years experience in the same field. My argument was not that you can't have agreements, but that you must have the agreements to even perform something as simple as a port scan. The CEH and CISSP course books first several chapters are dedicated to covering the legal issues (heavy US law, big ticket items with International Law). NMAP documentation also points out that just port scanning may result in a felony charge at a maximum, but at a minimum you could be sued for damages.
15 years ago I could run port scans without too much worry about being prosecuted as long as the intention was good and I didn't DOS someone in the process. Today, not a chance in hell I'd ever work without the correct legal agreements in place.
IMHO, a big problem is that today people perceive they can be a l337 H@X0R with nothing more than minimum knowledge of nmap and metasploit. They picture White Hat hacking as identical to Black Hat, but playing for the other team. It has not been that simple for a decade, and the majority of IT Security today is not hacking. If you can't present findings, define test methods, determine compensating controls, etc.. etc... then you are not going to last long in the field.
From the source in question, yes it may land you in jail. It all depends on the target and what they choose to do with you port scanning them.
You would be hired by them. Why are you being so dense?
I have a hard time believing we would be able to reach an employment agreement in either direction...
This is the same stupid ass statement she made at the press conference. No matter what you saw on TV or read on some interweb rag site, guys in black suits wearing sun glasses doing back flips over laser beams and plopping at the console is actually the least likely scenario for a computer to become compromised.
From TFA Recently, my boss approached me about offering security evaluation and penetration testing to customers in our area due to the increasing number of regulations companies area are having to meet
Does not appear to be internal testing from internal IPs that is the question now does it?
Go ahead and run NMAP against a company. Even worse, go ahead and attempt to exploit what you find. After you get out of jail we can discuss why you were wrong in your advice and actions. Simply running nmap against someone is enough to result in at least one felony charge.
If you ever bothered to read the preface to the CEH course, CISSP course, or any other certification for hacking you would this exact thing spelled out very clearly. White Hat hacking is mostly paperwork to cover your ass, not just hacking. The latter part is maybe 10% of your job, maybe..
Any IT Security professional will tell you the same thing, unless they are BS'ing like you are :)
I really don't see age as a qualifier for the question. If you want to be a MD at 60 go for it, let alone a Pen tester at 30. The biggest thing is to get certified. Personally I recommend CEH (Certified Ethical Hacking). Why? Because it will beat into your head how many laws you potentially break every time you do something, provides a rigid set of guidelines to follow to stay out of jail, and additionally demonstrates to potential customers that you have a clue.
CISSP is usually better for Auditors, not so much Penn testers but small shops often perform double duty.
If the first paragraph did not make it clear enough, make sure you have an attorney handy to draw up agreements. You really don't want to do this off the cuff without legal framework, the penalties are too severe.
I don't care about "you", and you did not even attempt to argue agains my statement. What you have demonstrated in this thread attempting to game the system by using multiple accounts to hoard Karma. So not just delusion, but grandiose delusion. Seek professional help.
You seem to know nothing about work habits except your own. I know absolutely zero people in the workplace that use their Laptop or Desktop to only check email. Sales and Marketing people are in presentations and spreadsheets all day, Technical writers are constantly editing documents and images, coders are pushing and pulling code all day, Managers are pulling and formatting reports, Ops is pulling patches and data while writing scripts, HR is on every resume web site thereis and creating docs all day, everyone has to use some type of social media, chat program, accessing corporate web sites for their daily work.
Sure, everyone is using email "too" but very few people today have a job where they "only need to check email".
If the premise is false then the conclusion is most likely false. Similarly, if the premise is exclusionary then the conclusion will also be exclusionary. I do realize that "white males" are the favorite punching bag for claims of discrimination, but the point is that discrimination is everywhere and employed by all sorts of people. Women hating on men, blacks hating on whites, Christians hating on Muslims, Muslims hating on non-Muslims, etc.. etc..
The problem is exacerbated by media who keeps issues in the spotlights, occasionally even inventing them. This is one of many ways that the powerful remain in power.. by making us bicker with each other.
If you doubt that discrimination is universal then visit a place like Saudi Arabia carrying a Bible and wearing a cross. Go to Harlem, Detroit, Compton, etc.. if you are white. Tell just about anyone that you are Jewish if you are. That we make a big deal of these differences 2,500 years after we should know better is a different issue (referring to Plato's "The Republic").
Since the world is full of idiots, you can only attempt to idiot proof the world with rules like "no selfie sticks". Just like they had to ban countless hiking trails because the self proclaimed 'nature lovers' would leave mounds of shit and graffiti all over the place.
Normally I'm pretty libertarian and say leave people alone. There are limits however, these being two of them.
The unqualified labeling of my opinion as "arrogant" is an ad hominem. I would suggest you actually attempt to educate yourself on rhetoric prior to making false claims a fourth time.
Seems like there is a trend with your thought process, and it happens to be irrational and delusional.
Thanks for meeting my expectation and thrice demonstrating your thought process.
Subject says it all. Ignoring my point makes you one of the fools that perpetuate and amplify the problem.
Funny that you claim I come off as arrogant after I corrected your behavior. Did you ever consider that it was your arrogance provoked my response? The obvious difference is that I chose not to go the ad hominem route, I demonstrated it instead.
Perhaps you should read what you write prior to posting and pretend that you are the recipient. What I gather from your two posts is not limited to arrogance, but self righteousness as well.
No. I don't expect an apology for your rudeness, in fact I expect the opposite.
This is where you should begin to wonder who is controlling these movements. I saw the signs women were holding during their rallies in India. Signs were in English and matching the exact rhetoric we see on signs in the US Feminist movement. "End gender based sexual assault". So men that are raped are not allowed in _their_ arguments, and neither are women raped by other women. The former is a staggeringly high statistic if you include incarceration, and the latter seems to match male on female rape by percentages.
No, it's not just prison where men get raped but county jail for events like exercising your first amendment rights.. er.. illegally protesting.
The unfortunate fact is that men are victims of sexual assault by women as well as other men. In the US we have a double standard, where a female sexually assaulting a male is always a victim somehow. The male victims are pressured into not talking, and often refused the ability to pursue charges. How many of the female teachers found to be sexually assaulting minor students have been charged and registered as sex offenders? Yeah, go ahead and check that number.
Finally, no! My comments are not intended or implied to justify the case TFA discusses. ALL sexual assault is wrong. What my comments are intended to do is show the double standards, which has the known consequence of intensifying aggressive acts like sexual assaults.
Oh stop it! We live in a society that has said accuracy does not matter. Kids are fine to spell however they want, do math however they want, and facts they don't like can be ignored. In fact students will receive A+ grades for getting everything wrong.
If you want to correct someone, that is fine. Don't attempt to insult them with lacking education however, when the government mandated education system is actually producing the problem.
Why bother? Some people want to wrap themselves up in an American flag.
But seriously, I don't think it is practical for you to judge for someone else if the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Everyone has different priorities and different ideas of what is a major disadvantage or merely a minor inconvenience.
If I lived abroad I wouldn't bother paying or filing. But that's me, I'm okay being a scofflaw about things I think are unfair. I'd rather give the money to a lawyer than pay some unreasonable fines.
Ahh, so if my answer does not match your opinion I should not answer the question stated explicitly in TFA. Glad to know how you think, or don't.
In addition to having the tax burden, they are not going to have an advantage in college due to US citizenship. "State" citizenship is what matters, so your kids will be paying out of State tuition and be on a waiting list (if it applies) to that school anyway.
Tax evasion is a federal offense. While technically if they make no income they are not required to "pay" they may still be in harassed and even jailed if someone wanted to investigate why they didn't file. So much for visiting Grandma right?.
If you have no plans of moving them to the US then why bother? The cons don't outweigh the burden in this case, but they can change their mind at 18 and file if they wish.
Every single mission you mentioned required massive amounts of manpower to get into flight. Every single mission still requires humans to review data and make adjustments if necessary. I cautioned about using drones as an example, and should have included space missions in that warning. Sadly people can't make distinctions on their own when it may harm their fragile belief system.
Wrong on just about every account. It is not a matter of the alternative, it's a matter of what happens when an incident occurs and how a human is still the fail safe. Under many circumstances I would agree that auto-pilot is better. Long boring drives where the weather is good and the car operates normally being one of those. Where the automatic goodies fail is always when the unexpected occurs. A deer jumps out of the trees in front of the car, road debris too small for sensors or human eyes destroy a tire, weak pavement gives way, a patch of ice on a stretch road, etc.. etc.. We see the exact same thing in flight, and interestingly people here attribute a crashing plane to the human even when the human had to intervene because the plane was crashing despite automatic controls.
One day all of these exceptions can be built into software making the computers reaction better, but we are not there yet. TFA is not talking about having untrained people in cars in a decade, it's equating with current technology. So are you by the way. Arguing that we have all of these things covered in autopilot is provably false. Google cars can't drive today in poor weather, and a blowing paper bag is see as the same thing as a concrete block to sensors.
As I said below you can't compare automating complex issues like this to figuring how the physics for how lift works. It is not the same thing and not the same level of complexity.
Figuring out the laws of physics required for lift is not the same thing as automating a complex task that limited numbers of humans can perform. I gave the example in automation, and you simply plucked something out of the air to say "nuh uh".
Show me where automating flight has been perfected to the point where we no longer require humans. We have not done so, and that is the measure we need to make.