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YouTube Video of Racist Chant Results In Fraternity Closure

HughPickens.com writes The NYT reports that after a video was posted on YouTube that appeared to show members of the members Sigma Alpha Epsilon at University of Oklahoma singing a racist chant, the organization's board decided "with no mental reservation whatsoever that this chapter needed to be closed immediately." The video shows a group of young white people in formal wear riding a bus and singing a chant laden with antiblack slurs and at least one reference to lynching. A grinning young man wearing a tuxedo and standing in the aisle of the bus pumps his fist in the air as he chants, while a young woman seated nearby claps. The chant vows that African-Americans will "never" be allowed to join the campus chapter.

The nine-second video was uploaded to YouTube on Sunday by a student group, the Unheard Movement, that first identified the people in it as members of Sigma Alpha Epsilon, although the group did not indicate how it obtained the video or when it was filmed. University president, David Boren, said in an emailed statement that the administration was also investigating the video. "I have just been informed of the video, which purports to show students to show students engaging in a racist chant. We are investigating to determine if the video involved OU students. If O.U. students are involved, this behavior will not be tolerated and will be addressed very quickly," said Boren. "This behavior is reprehensible and contrary to all of our values." Students marched on the campus of the University of Oklahoma on Monday to protest the video.

606 comments

  1. You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    SigEps are racists. Wait, frats in general are racists. No shit, Sherlock. PKA on my campus was 100% Jewish. If you weren't Jewish, you weren't getting in. Some were all white. Some all black. The entirety of the greek system is racism and sexism in action. Give me a break with your feigned outrage.

    1. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not a "Greek", and I never have been or wanted to be, but your characterization of them is not consistent with what I have known. Even if they were exclusionary, as you suggest, actively seeking the company of those with similar background and actively mocking/hating/disrespecting others others is different.

    2. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      SigEps are racists. Wait, frats in general are racists. No shit, Sherlock. PKA on my campus was 100% Jewish. If you weren't Jewish, you weren't getting in. Some were all white. Some all black. The entirety of the greek system is racism and sexism in action. Give me a break with your feigned outrage.

      Exactly. ...and had this been a Black fraternity chanting about honkies and crackers, absolutely NOTHING would be done about it, nor would it be getting national attention.

    3. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, since you are not surprised they are racist, it is ok for them to be racist and get support from the university?

      Or perhaps an organization did not want to be openly identified as racists and are disavowing the morons that brought this to the national eye.

      But you are right. All fraternities are racist to some degree or other. Why schools tolerate this is beyond me.

    4. Re:You don't say... by BreakBad · · Score: 1

      No, those fraternities hate all other races, and thats ok. You can't just pick one.

    5. Re:You don't say... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how it helps to oppose bigotry to create a false stereotype demonizing all fraternities and sororities. Seems like just another chapter of bigotry, to me.

    6. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just for the record, SAE members are called "SigAlphs." "SigEps" is used to refer to Sigma Phi Epsilon members.

      Disclaimer: I am an SAE. I do not condone or in any way defend the actions of my brothers up in Norman.

      Also, what is up with unicode? I'd swear I've used Greek letters in the past, but Slashdot doesn't seem to want to accept them today.

    7. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      On every campus in the country, there are women's studies classes which teach girls things like "All men are rapists", "All sex is violence", and spout absurd bullshit about the numbers of "assaults" taking place on campus (despite the definition of the word being completely flexible to support their agenda).

    8. Re:You don't say... by jythie · · Score: 0

      These classes only exist in the minds of MRAs.

    9. Re:You don't say... by g0bshiTe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Free speech doesn't mean free from repercussion.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    10. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Entire American cities have become uninhabitable by whites due to the threat of black violence.

      Shirley you jest. Where are these cities? Can you provide citations for your claim?

      I've known quite a few SAEs in my time. They are wild and crazy, sometimes destructive, but I've never known any that were racist. Your mileage may vary.

    11. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you don't like the idea of Women's Studies, at least you like to mischaracterize what it is all about. Please cite sources to support you assertion.

    12. Re:You don't say... by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 0

      Free speech does not extend to hate speech. No rights are being denied here, since you do not have the right to hate speech.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    13. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you call an American at a top 100 College?

      Lost!

    14. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      People who derp about "Liberals" tend to be very stupid, and are just taking marching orders from hate-radio, wingnut blogs, and Fox "News."

      Of course they don't understand what "free speech" means. They only know what irresponsible, lying, far-right-wing media feeds their empty heads to keep them disconnected from reality and frothing at the mouth in misguided outrage.

    15. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm not a "Greek", and I never have been or wanted to be, but your characterization of them is not consistent with what I have known. Even if they were exclusionary, as you suggest, actively seeking the company of those with similar background and actively mocking/hating/disrespecting others others is different.

      So you're saying there's a positive way to spin discrimination?

      Oh wait, I guess there is. You just demonstrated it by using a different word instead.

      How quaint.

    16. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These classes only exist in the minds of MRAs.

      That's wrong, according to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

    17. Re:You don't say... by hendrips · · Score: 1

      I have attended or worked at four different universities at some point. At each one, SAE was considered to be the most undisciplined, anti-social, and exclusionary fraternity on campus. That's just my anecdote, I know, but I'm certainly willing to believe that they should be singled out for special condemnation.

    18. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 4, Informative

      Free speech does not extend to hate speech. No rights are being denied here, since you do not have the right to hate speech.

      Huh? Where is "hate speech" defined in the Constitution? Hint.. It's not. This video does NOT depict speech that is illegal.

      By law in the USA you can only restrict speech that poses an imminent danger of unlawful action, where the speaker has the intention to incite such action and there is the likelihood that this will be the consequence of his or her speech, may be restricted and punished by that law. That's not what these guys where doing.

      That's not to say it wasn't stupid to do and even more stupid to record it on video, or that the college isn't justified in their actions and people shouldn't be outraged by this stuff. Only that people are free to SAY (or even publish) just about anything, including this drivel, as a matter of law.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    19. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the United States, "hate speech" is not a category that has any significance in First Amendment jurisprudence. Your claim that "you do not have the right to hate speech" will get you laughed out of any federal court in the nation. You are flatly wrong and inexcusably ignorant to boot.

    20. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll bring anecdotal experience of my own in contrast to your post. I pledged SAE at UNLV over 20 years ago, and we were consistently the highest earners in all the charitable drives the school did during my time there. Like twice as much as the ATOs and Kappa Sigmas brought in. We were in the top three houses on each of the GPA reports I saw as well. Not saying there aren't bad apples out there (there obviously are, of course, hence this story), but the vast majority of my brothers I have met are good guys.

    21. Re:You don't say... by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      No, those fraternities hate all other races, and thats ok.

      Are you fucking serious? So, "We're the master race." is okay but "Niggers are inferior." is not?!?

      Racism is fucking racism. If you're going to call it out don't get selective about it.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    22. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free speech does not extend to hate speech. No rights are being denied here, since you do not have the right to hate speech.

      Posting anon because your claim that there are restrictions to free speech makes me cower in fear. Or put another way, you are spewing hate speech towards those of us that believe in Free Speech.

      Checkmate. :)

    23. Re:You don't say... by nobuddy · · Score: 0

      You do not condone what they do, yet you still call them your brothers.

    24. Re:You don't say... by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And blacks are entirely excluded from some cities because of ingrained prohibitions by real estate and landlords. Of course, that's not really true, there is no entire city that's this way, any more than there is even one entire city that whites can't enter because of threats of violence.

      Framing things in black and white is just stupid. Black people are just as much threatened by violence in their neighborhoods as are whites who wander in.

    25. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Where are these cities? Can you provide citations for your claim?

      Entire cities is exaggerating but large swaths of Detroit, Chicago and Baltimore for example are extremely dangerous for white people at any time of day. I've been to Detroit twice and even the people that lived there, including the police, recommended staying within the "quarantine zone." You can go from wealthy suburbs to African level ghettoes in a few blocks.

    26. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Free speech does not extend to hate speech. No rights are being denied here, since you do not have the right to hate speech.

      If you live in the US, you certainly do. That's not to say that organizations such as a University can't take action based on your speech, but the Supreme Court has upheld the right to hate speech numerous times, most recently in regard to the Westboro Baptist Church.

    27. Re:You don't say... by SirSlud · · Score: 1, Informative

      You're a very broken person, but I suspect you know this.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    28. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And? Both myself and the guys in the video are members of the same fraternity. We are known colloquially as "brothers."

    29. Re: You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If there are repercussions for expressing an idea, then it's not free speech we're dealing with in the first place.

      "Free speech" is short for "free-from-all-repercussions speech".

      The opposite of free speech is, guess what, when there are repercussions like ostracism, punishment, torture, death, and so forth merely for expressing an idea.

    30. Re:You don't say... by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not a "Greek", and I never have been or wanted to be, but your characterization of them is not consistent with what I have known.

      Neither was I, and I agree to a *small* extent. Mind you, I'm from Arkansas and it was a long time ago, but there were still frats (and sororities) that were, shall we say, a wee bit on the exclusionary side of things, and the exclusions were occasionally based on religion, skin color, ethnic origin...

      As for TFA? As much as I myself detest racism and bigotry based on someone's religion/ethnicity/etc... Personally, I think they *should* be allowed to be total asshats about it. Seriously - as long as there's no assualt or other crimes against others, let them chant whatever the hell they want.

      I say this for two reasons:

      1) College is supposed to be a place where all viewpoints and ideas are explored - even the ugly and stupid ones. Freedom of speech should hold highest priority in such a place.

      2) The video (and anything like it) can serve as an example to point at and instruct against; a competent prof can debate the racist activity into the dirt, in a setting that educates everyone else, and (hopefully) teaches the racists in question along the way.

      By kicking out the frat charter, you only drive the problem deeper underground... and where is the frickin' benefit in doing that among a body of kids that are going to be naturally rebellious in the first place? You only make it more attractive to such a mindset.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    31. Re:You don't say... by Penguinisto · · Score: 2

      Free speech doesn't mean free from repercussion.

      True - so let's make the repercussion equal to the transgression: ridicule, education against, and ostracism by the student body. I bet that after a month or so of being shunned and laughed at by the student body at large (and excluded from, oh I dunno... things like getting laid...), the students in question would have one very powerful incentive to straighten their act up. A couple of months later, the frat would likely die of member starvation (unless they publicly apologized, and demonstrated something akin to repentance, of course.)

      Instead, the college just drove them further underground and made them attractive to every little rebellious soul on campus.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    32. Re:You don't say... by cusco · · Score: 1

      Most of Gros Pointe Shores is extremely dangerous to black people at any time of day. By stepping inside the city limits they are allowing themselves to be arrested and beaten without recourse to the courts.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    33. Re:You don't say... by Livius · · Score: 1

      "Hate speech" is something like saying "The Holocaust is a hoax". No-one who says that believes it or has any kind of acceptable reason for saying it.

      Saying something like "The Holocaust was a good idea" is absolutely deplorable but is protected free speech.

    34. Re:You don't say... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Agreed with sibling. As vile as it may be, once you start putting subjective limits on speech, it's only downhill from there.

      Sure, speech that generates fraud or incites panic is obviously illegal (as is speech that culminates in such things as "swatting"), but those are reasonable limits that are obvious to one and all.

      "Hate speech" has already been morphed (see also the incredibly stupid phrase "microaggressions", which could very easily be converted into an expression of "hate", thus "hate speech.")

      Tell me - do you think that non-racial ideals so damned fragile that they cannot withstand a stupid phrase from a stupid person? If you think they are, then the problem lies with you, not the ideals themselves.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    35. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      "feigned outrage," as in "closure."

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    36. Re:You don't say... by Krojack · · Score: 2

      By law in the USA the government can only restrict speech that poses an imminent danger of unlawful action, where the speaker has the intention to incite such action and there is the likelihood that this will be the consequence of his or her speech, may be restricted and punished by that law.

      Last I checked the Constitution only applies to the government. The /. admins could restrict anything they want to and not be against the law. Any private organization can censor the speech is within their property as they please. Now if this university receives government funds then it's a different story.

    37. Re:You don't say... by Layzej · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Racism describes a system of disadvantage based on race. Black people can't be racist" - Dear White People

      I'm not sure I entirely agree, but it is possible that there is a difference in the severity of an action depending on whether it is perpetrated by the advantaged against the disadvantaged, or the reverse.

      For instance, in 1959 black people were excluded from libraries in Sourth Carolina. This undoubtedly contributed to a system of disadvantage based on race. Here's a heart warming video of a 9 year old Ronald McNair standing up for himself in 1959. Would white people have cared if a library was created in retaliation that excluded whites? They probably would have shrugged and laughed.

      That said, I doubt that a black fraternity chanting about honkies would go unpunished. You are deluded if you think we live in a society where black people get away with shit

    38. Re:You don't say... by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Remember what whats his name (Cramer from Seinfeld) had is 'nigger' rant on stage?

      The disks that shipped the same week sold 3 times as many copies as the previous issue.

      What if the frat became an open 'Stormfront' house?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    39. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 0

      So blame the victim ...

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    40. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      OK, asshole. In those areas you mention, what percentage of violent deaths are Black?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    41. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Black people are just as much threatened by violence in their neighborhoods as are whites who wander in.

      If what you say is true then that would explain why white peoples do not want blacks for neighbours and therefore prove that racist peoples are rightly so. That is so racist of you. -1 Troll and reported to the cyber-police.

    42. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a sociologist, I am very interested in the work you've done that supports your findings that NOTHING has been done and no national attention has been given to a Black fraternity that chanted about honkies and crackers.

      My colleagues and I eagerly await your reference link.

      Thank you in advance.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    43. Re:You don't say... by Zelucifer · · Score: 2

      That's not at all hate speech. Hate speech requires there to be a specific target. As well, I don't agree with your statement that no-one who says that believes it. The individuals who do believe that the Holocaust was a hoax may be disturbed, but they definitely do exist. True radicalism (as Neo-Nazi's and other Holocaust deniers tend to be), necessitates ardent belief. In the case of Antisemitism many feel such hatred and fear that they can convince themselves of beliefs or ideas that a normal person would consider completely irrational.

      --
      The corner of a round room
    44. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      ... we all know that ...

      How'd that bullet feel going through your foot?

      I have a brand new grand daughter and she doesn't know much at all.

      So, you are wrong.

      But thanks for playing.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    45. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BS. You need to base your opinion on actual facts: fraternities are just a group of people. Some people have reprehensible attitudes and some do not. In a group situation where "like attracts like", you can certainly get more extreme cases like this. Deal with *this* case.

      Speaking as an alumni member of a fraternity that was nothing like this: I can say with confidence that at least at our school and ones I've visited our group's attitude is the norm. This SigEp example is the exception.

      One of the advantages you're losing sight of here is that since there is a national organization, there is someone who can and apparently has stepped in. If this were just a group of kids acting like this, there would be no recourse.

    46. Re: You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Certainly. Like expressing "FIRE!" in a theater?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    47. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      ... the college just drove them further underground and made them attractive to every little rebellious soul on campus.

      Wait ... what?

      Exactly how does that work?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    48. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I consider that if something is so scary it has to be censored, it must be somewhat truthful. eg; If racism is so wrong then it can debated and racists ideas will be disproved. If they cannot be disproved then maybe they are not so bad all.

    49. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 5, Insightful

      These people's "free speech" is still intact.

      No warrants have been issued, no one has been arrested, and no one is in jail.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    50. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *cough cough* business majors *cough*

    51. Re:You don't say... by Sowelu · · Score: 1

      Seems like it was pretty equal to me. They sure as hell hurt the reputation of that fraternity in other areas, in other colleges, by being associated with them. So they got de-associated.

    52. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      By kicking out the frat charter, you only drive the problem deeper underground... and where is the frickin' benefit in doing that among a body of kids that are going to be naturally rebellious in the first place? You only make it more attractive to such a mindset.

      The charter is an endorsement by the university. There is a world of difference between endorsement and non-interference.
      Those boys are free to continue their racist association all they want - they haven't been expelled, they haven't even been disciplined.
      They just can't do it with the university's blessing.

    53. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF, Last year, I went to many of your country downtown's (SF, Nashville, Boston), staying in cheap shady hotel and I never had any trouble with drunkard, homeless or gangs whether they were black or white. I was a big target with my wallet full of 20s at the ghetto pizza shop and my inappropriately broken Quebec accent (well not even a Quebecker accent as I throw intonations randomly).

      The closest I ever came to trouble is in Boston, when I almost stepped on an homeless man sleeping under journal papers. I apologized, wished him better luck and went my way.
      Oh yeah, a black dude in SF told my girlfriend that she had nice boobs, she said "thank you for your compliment" and I said "she is mine dude", the incident was over.
      Maybe if you treated peoples with respect, without regard to who they are, you would not experience that much trouble.

    54. Re:You don't say... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Just yesterday on another thread someone asked "Wow, who is making the argument that we should 'sacrifice free speech for a better society'?" and today you come along and make that very argument.`

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    55. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So.. Racism is OK as long as it's traditional and institutional. Right.

      Yeah, we got a long way to go still. Buckle up.

    56. Re:You don't say... by sexconker · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Free speech does not extend to hate speech.

      Yes it does.

    57. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      where the speaker has the intention to incite such action and there is the likelihood that this will be the consequence of his or her speech

      In which case the illegal action is "inciting violence" rather than "speaking" is it not?

      Why is it that every nerd is so obsessed with there being at least one type of illegal speech?

      No, you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, but that's because inducing panic is illegal regardless of how you go about doing it.

    58. Re:You don't say... by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Huh? Where is "hate speech" defined in the Constitution? Hint.. It's not. This video does NOT depict speech that is illegal.

      Which is why nobody was arrested

      Only that people are free to SAY (or even publish) just about anything, including this drivel, as a matter of law.


      Yes, they are allowed to say whatever they want. And this univiersity has the right to tell them it's unacceptable and revoke their frat priveleges.

    59. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When people say the holocaust is a hoax they usually mean that it is way exaggerated. How is that hate speech?
      Is it hate speech when people believe in any kind of conspiracy theory, or is it specifically this one because it's jews?
      I don't believe in hate speech. I think we should be free to say things like the holohoax isn't real as long as we aren't calling for the jews or the gypsies to be hung and gassed.
      Additionally, making holocaust denial illegal gives me visions of state approved history, and that's pretty scary to me.
       

    60. Re: You don't say... by cusco · · Score: 1

      Horsepuckey. If you threaten to kill me you can go to jail. There are lots of limits on speech, and rightfully so. You're free to threaten to kill me, or to yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre, as long as you're willing to deal with the results.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    61. Re:You don't say... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This isn't a free speech issue, it's not the government disbanding their frat. It's the college, which is perfectly within its rights to do so. No where in the constitution or the law does it say that the college has to allow this behaviour on its property if it doesn't want to.

      I've noticed a lot of people calling for more freedom of speech tend to ignore the freedom of others to react freely to that speech. Not allowing on your property or boycotting people who say things you don't like is absolutely the right way to behave, and is your legally and constitutionally protected right.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    62. Re:You don't say... by cusco · · Score: 1

      in the USA you can only restrict speech that poses an imminent danger of unlawful action

      Where is that defined in the Constitution? Hint.. It's not

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    63. Re: You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We did that already - it's called "Detroit".

    64. Re:You don't say... by kervin · · Score: 2

      Exactly. ...and had this been a Black fraternity chanting about honkies and crackers, absolutely NOTHING would be done about it, nor would it be getting national attention.

      Do you or any of the readers that modded your comment "Informative" have any evidence to back that up?

      Secondly, even if that was the case, would 2 wrongs make a right? Shouldn't we make sure that the Black fraternity was punished instead of defending the other intolerant fraternities?

    65. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're dangerous to black people too, people just don't care what happens to them.

      And, African-level ghettoes? You've clearly never been to Africa. African cities are safer than American cities.

    66. Re:You don't say... by Penguinisto · · Score: 2

      The disks that shipped the same week sold 3 times as many copies as the previous issue.

      Mostly by curious people who only got half the story on the evening news. Controversy (actual controversy as classically defined, mind) does that.

      What if the frat became an open 'Stormfront' house?

      So what if it does? The societal repercussions of belonging to such a thing would be detrimental enough that nearly everyone with at least two working neurons would avoid it. Eventually it, like the Klan, becomes some isolated group with an ever-shrinking number of nutjobs and idiots.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    67. Re: You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Let's take all the money from those white guys

      Thieving bastard.

    68. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You don't seem very familiar with black fraternities.

      In my experience, they're mostly concerned with being a better man, Jesus, that type of thing. That, and step-dancing. Not chanting about crackas.

    69. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I told my kids that the Greek System was set up for people with no personality and a need to be told what to do.

      Normal people are able to build their own group of friends for support.

    70. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This particular frat dates to pre-civil war, when there were 400 members. When the war started and higher education suspended, nearly all 400 members went to fight for the Confederacy.

      About 7 I think fought for the North.

      This is institutional racism going back a long time. People being racist is a right, institutions being racist is grounds to shut the institution down.

    71. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to understand how this closure happened.

      This chapter wasn't shut down by the university. It was shut down by the national organization of their own fraternity.

      Whether due to genuine outrage or fear that the truth about them will get out, the national SAE organization decided that they no longer with to be associated with the people in the video.

    72. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SigEps are racists. Wait, frats in general are racists. No shit, Sherlock. PKA on my campus was 100% Jewish. If you weren't Jewish, you weren't getting in. Some were all white. Some all black. The entirety of the greek system is racism and sexism in action. Give me a break with your feigned outrage.

      My frat wasn't racist. Maybe yours was racist because you hang out with racists.

    73. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like how "consequence" has now become "repercussion".

    74. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Says the guy who doesn't have to live with them. Jim Crow wasn't established to keep the black man down so much as it was to get him to leave. And he did. And when they started building up real numbers in Northern cities, the civil rights movement suddenly sprang into being - to get them to move back South.

    75. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are deluded if you think we live in a society where black people get away with shit

      99% of your comment stated that reverse discrimination is a myth, then you finished with the gem above.

      FYI black fraternities discriminate against whites with impunity.

    76. Re:You don't say... by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The SAE's only sin in the eyes of the university was to bring bad press. If the University of Oklahoma president truly meant it when he said that "we don't provide services for bigots" then the only fraternities on campus would be the ones dedicated to professions or academic achievement.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    77. Re:You don't say... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      This isn't a free speech issue, it's not the government disbanding their frat. It's the college, which is perfectly within its rights to do so. No where in the constitution or the law does it say that the college has to allow this behaviour on its property if it doesn't want to.

      Well, if this is a Public college funded by PUBLIC money, then no, they should not be able to discipline the students which the Dean seemed to be saying they were looking into.

      Sure the charter can be revoked, but the individual students should NOT be punished for anything they said.

      Racist speech is protected and if this is a publicly funded university, they should not be able to punish or squash speech such as this. That would, in effect be gov. suppression or censorship of speech or behavior.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    78. Re:You don't say... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      There is never a lack of recourse in courts if recourse is indeed warranted. The local courts may be corrupt, but you also have state and federal courts and by saying arrested- you are signifying that it is a government entity which gives you standing in federal court. Now you do need to jump the hurdle of cops lying but if as you say is true, there will be quite a few people claiming the cops always lie in concerns with that.

      Now if you mean mobs, you still have some recourse even if the local courts will discriminate.

    79. Re:You don't say... by grcumb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand, EVERY area on earth with a predominately black population is a poor violent ghetto.

      In the Jamaican neighbourhoods in Toronto to Haitian enclaves in Montreal, the greatest danger you face is burning your tongue on some jerk chicken. In the Muslim banlieues in Paris, you're no more likely to face violence than anywhere else. In most of Africa—the vast majority of the 'black' world—you're safer than in any American city.

      I live in a town that's 95% black. I don't even close the windows or lock the doors on my car at night. I can walk away from my bag containing $10K in photographic gear, and not even turn my head. The only thing I get tired of is people's friendliness and desire to chat all the time. True story: A young man stole a tourist's hand bag a while ago. The story made the front page of the newspaper. That's how rare crime is here.

      In fact, you can pretty much trace violence in black American (North, Central and South) communities to the legacy of the slave trade, to racial inequality that has led to economic inequality and chronic injustice. There's a strong correlation there. In countries such as Brasil, where the economic inequality was not necessarily race-based, you find more equal-opportunity crime and predation. In Mexico and elsewhere, you find the problems exist primarily where indigenous people are clustered.

      TL;DR: You don't have a clue what you're talking about, you ignorant fuckwit. Wilful ignorance such as yours only perpetuates the problem.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    80. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now if this university receives government funds then it's a different story.

      University of Oklahoma is a public college funded by the State of Oklahoma and receives research grants from the federal government.

    81. Re:You don't say... by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Free speech only extends to hate speech. "Freedom of agreeable speech" is nonsense. It's only deeply offensive speech that needs "freedom of" in the first place.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    82. Re:You don't say... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Government funded private institutions do not become part of the government or subject to constitutionally protected free speech rules. If you wanted that you should have asked the government to run the college, not asked for it to give public funds to a private entity to run it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    83. Re:You don't say... by Shoten · · Score: 1

      SigEps are racists. Wait, frats in general are racists. No shit, Sherlock. PKA on my campus was 100% Jewish. If you weren't Jewish, you weren't getting in. Some were all white. Some all black. The entirety of the greek system is racism and sexism in action. Give me a break with your feigned outrage.

      Now, now, now. It's not actually true that all frats are racist. In fact, even the most racist of frats aren't even racist all the time.

      When they're committing date rape, race is of no concern to them.

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    84. Re:You don't say... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Yes, because the concept of being free to say whatever you feel like saying, expressing your opinion, even if it is against popular opinion is something that only the educated smart people in your circle can understand right? And god forbid anyone forms an opinion from something someone else says, that just screws the concept all up right?

      People who "derp" about people who derp likely fall into the same class as they describe.

    85. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      No, just repercussions from the government. OU being a government institution and all should then mean that the university cannot punish the students for the speech. Should the students be socially shamed and ridiculed and used as an example of the wrong way to be, yes.

    86. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      in the USA you can only restrict speech that poses an imminent danger of unlawful action

      Where is that defined in the Constitution? Hint.. It's not

      No, it was put in place by SCOUTS, who is the interpreter of the constitution. There ARE limits (You cannot yell fire in a theater to watch the stampede) or incite a riot, but there is not much more you are not allowed to say because the freedom of speech is part of the constitution.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    87. Re: You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      No, not all repercussions. Just government ones and bodily injury ones. We also have the right to choose whom we associate with and inherent in that right is choosing whom not to associate with so if I choose to not associate with someone based on the ideas they express, then I am completely within my rights and have not limited his rights. I gave him the right to speak his mind and made a judgement about that person. Are you suggesting that we cannot have free speech unless we deem every idea ever expressed as equally valid? We cannot have free speech unless we all agree that 2+2=7 or "all blacks must be killed" or "no black man would ever commit a crime". Free speech absolutely does not mean all expressed ideas must be accepted by all. What a load of crap.

    88. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Sorry... SCOUTS => SCOTUS

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    89. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Well, a government agency is debating whether or not these idiots can continue to be associated with said government agency based solely on the content of this speech. While not jail, it is still government punishment.

    90. Re: You don't say... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You can express fire in a theater. There are limits to it though.

      The concept of yelling fire in a crowded theater comes from the longstanding problems with lack of exits and plenty of consumables for a fire. At a time before we had fire codes and emergency exits, sprinklers, and all, if a fire broke out in a theater, there was a good chance of dieing by either the fire, smoke, or getting trampled on by others trying to escape. You can search google for it, but there are numerous theater fires in history where dozens and even hundreds of people died due to one of those. It's a bit dated but the immediate danger associated with shouting fire and not having the context of why could result in imminent harm to others from their panicking. Not saying I agree, but I understand the concept.

    91. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Is this particular university not a government agency? Hint: it is.

    92. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      This isn't a free speech issue, it's not the government disbanding their frat. It's the college, which is perfectly within its rights to do so.

      I was responding to somebody who was trying to claim this was "hate speech" and thus illegal.

      And to quote myself....

      That's not to say it wasn't stupid to do and even more stupid to record it on video, or that the college isn't justified in their actions and people shouldn't be outraged by this stuff. Only that people are free to SAY (or even publish) just about anything, including this drivel, as a matter of law.

      So I'm not up in arms about what the college decided to do either... You are free to say anything, but that does not mean you are free from suffering the consequences when you do.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    93. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      This particular university is a government agency. How do we get from a public high school is the government so we cannot let a single student utter anything remoteless religious lest it be construed as government endorsement to this state owned and run university is in no way connected to any government? It would be okay for the national organization to disband this chapter but no government agency should be doing so.

    94. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      But if the university in question is a government agency then how can the university hand out punishment (restrict free speech) and still be in conformity with the case law you just cited?

    95. Re:You don't say... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You are correct. It's just that privileges and rights they had on a government sponsored campus has been removed and/restricted for that speech.

      And we all know denying people government services or treating them differently under the law, or even in government sponsored universities because of their speech is perfectly fine because "No warrants have been issued, no one has been arrested, and no one is in jail".

    96. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      That's not to say it wasn't stupid to do and even more stupid to record it on video, or that the college isn't justified in their actions and people shouldn't be outraged by this stuff. Only that people are free to SAY (or even publish) just about anything, including this drivel, as a matter of law.

      Exactly. I have no problem with the college ejecting the frat, and even possibly the students. Freedom of speech does not mean you have freedom from consequences from your speech, only that you can express any opinion you want and not get arrested and charged with a crime. You can still get fired, ejected from an organization such as a club or college for expressing opinions, even if you are "free" to say just about anything.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    97. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just said that and you had a good reason to say it.

    98. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you live in the US, you certainly do.

      You have the right to free speech no matter where you live. What varies is to what extent one's local government is willing and able to violate that right.

    99. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      These people's "free speech" is still intact.

      No warrants have been issued, no one has been arrested, and no one is in jail.

      Please read the post I was responding too:

      Free speech does not extend to hate speech. No rights are being denied here, since you do not have the right to hate speech.

      This wasn't "hate speech", nor was it illegal, which is why I'm explaining to the previous poster about what freedom of speech actually is in the United States. I'm not making an argument that says these frat boys are being unfairly treated in the press or by the college, only that the previous poster was wrong trying to call it "hate speech" and thinking it was illegal.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    100. Re:You don't say... by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      At least they aren't standing up for free speech and freedom of expression...

    101. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      By law in the USA the government can only restrict speech that poses an imminent danger of unlawful action, where the speaker has the intention to incite such action and there is the likelihood that this will be the consequence of his or her speech, may be restricted and punished by that law.

      Last I checked the Constitution only applies to the government. The /. admins could restrict anything they want to and not be against the law. Any private organization can censor the speech is within their property as they please. Now if this university receives government funds then it's a different story.

      I'm not arguing that, I'm answering the previous poster's claim that this was "hate speech" and was thus not protected under the 1st amendment. That is incorrect, this IS protected speech, as hateful and shameful as it may be, and it's a right to express such opinions.

      Free speech does not extend to hate speech. No rights are being denied here, since you do not have the right to hate speech.

      Which is hopelessly wrong headed, at least in the United States under our constitution. However, free speech does not mean free from consequences. You won't be arrested and charged with a crime for telling your boss off (short of assault), but you might get fired for exercising that right.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    102. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh grow up. Don't try to make the perfect the enemy of the good.
      It is impossible to eradicate bigotry. The best that can be reasonably hoped for is to keep it to a minimum. You choose to see that as hypocrisy, anyone with experience of the world outside their mother's basement knows we are all imperfect.

    103. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      "Hate speech" is something like saying "The Holocaust is a hoax". No-one who says that believes it or has any kind of acceptable reason for saying it.

      Saying something like "The Holocaust was a good idea" is absolutely deplorable but is protected free speech.

      Saying either is PROTECTED under the 1st amendment here in the United States. Now if you are urging a receptive audience to REPEAT the Holocaust, or incite a riot, they can stop and charge you, but you have to be WAY out of line and there must be an immediate danger of a crime happening before the authorities can step in.

      Some frat boys singing something is unlikely to rise to such a serious level and this certainly doesn't.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    104. Re:You don't say... by nobuddy · · Score: 1

      To continue to count them as your brothers says you support what they did. They are officially no longer members of the fraternity.

    105. Re:You don't say... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      So how about this for a chant "I will pay a bounty of $10,000 for each ? person you kill", it's just words after all and words don't kill do they. Declaration of war, meh, just a piece of paper. Words can do great harm and must be used carefully and must be subject to the law, else fraud, bribery, incitement to violence, threats run riot and the physical actions they promote go out of control.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    106. Re:You don't say... by MuleSkinnerOkie · · Score: 1

      I say this for two reasons: 1) College is supposed to be a place where all viewpoints and ideas are explored - even the ugly and stupid ones. Freedom of speech should hold highest priority in such a place. 2) The video (and anything like it) can serve as an example to point at and instruct against; a competent prof can debate the racist activity into the dirt, in a setting that educates everyone else, and (hopefully) teaches the racists in question along the way.

      I can see this point. The problem it runs up against in reality is that there's a history of (and likely some extant) racism in both the university and fraternal order involved. So any hint of condoning this behavior opens both organizations to the same kind of intense scrutiny that was about to fall upon the kids in the video.

      So the choices were essentially to admit that the entire system this one frat has been living under has been condoning this kind of thing since integration, or to come down on the folks caught in the video like a ton of bricks, and pretend they are freakish monsters that somehow escaped notice until now. Guess which is going to happen, every time?

    107. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A college that receives federal money no doubt. So they can't have religion because of that fact but can quash speech they don't like. Got it.

    108. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the Jamaican neighbourhoods in Toronto... Montreal

      Oh please... Toronto and Montreal are terrible examples. The black areas of both cities are the most dangerous areas by a huge margin and they're the only areas of the two cities people generally avoid due to crime rates.

    109. Re:You don't say... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      There is a point where you need to confront and disincent certain behaviors. We have massive evidence that racism can get out of hand and result fairly quickly in beatings, death, enslavement, riots, mass murder, civil breakdown- and massive loss of potential for the targets of racism..

      We already had the debate on racism and racism "lost". While the government has to tolerate and protect racist free speech, all kinds of other private organizations and businesses do not.

      By kicking out the frat charter, you send a clear message that civilized society won't tolerate such behavior and being racist will have negative consequences. Plus you take away some of the financial assets racists would have had.

      It's tough. I'm racist myself. Racism is insidious the way it creeps in around the edges. It destroys people's lives and harms society.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    110. Re:You don't say... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      It's a problem in the U.S. and a part of it is the historical segregation and discrimination which reduced opportunities for black u.s. citizens. Some segments of black society here developed unproductive attitudes in response to decades of hopelessness and unfairness.

      Likewise, unequal enforcement of drug laws disenfranchised many young blacks (a white arrested gets a fine and is let go- a black arrested gets a year in jail and a record- still happens- was happening in ferguson). A white girl arrested- gets her parents called while the black girls are told "trash goes in back" and arrested- same group of girls treated dramatically different.

      Looking at london,
      https://answers.yahoo.com/ques...
      It's completely different. Fair treatment by the police, mixed race neighborhoods (less white flight), most positive attitudes.
      Much more just "british citizens who have dark brown skin" and who still retain some of their national heritage from wherever they came from.

      TL;DR: (as you say) While not uniquely american, the OP was clueless and I agree completely with your position.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    111. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Then you and I are in agreement. Thanks.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    112. Re: You don't say... by BlueTrin · · Score: 1
      Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about:

      In the Muslim banlieues in Paris, you're no more likely to face violence than anywhere else.

      If you don't know, don't make up stories, ok ?

      --
      Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
    113. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Nah.

      Contracts trump free speech.

      For reference, see Paula Deen.

      She had a contract with the Food Network that said, in paraphrase, "You fuck with our revenue stream, you're fired."

      Students and Greeks have an obligation to the university in a similar manner.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    114. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that these students can, to this very day and hour, continue chanting this crap and not go to jail and that, therefore, their freedom of expression is intact.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    115. Re:You don't say... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Mod this up! Wish I could give a post 5 points!

      Awesome anecdote about Ron McNair. What courage he showed!

      And what about the police behavior in his story! If only they all acted like that!

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    116. Re:You don't say... by phmadore · · Score: 1

      The university can shut down fraternities almost whimsically. What do they honestly contribute to campus life besides money, anyhow?

    117. Re:You don't say... by phmadore · · Score: 1

      They're not being arrested for saying it. No government agency is moving against them. So far they haven't even been kicked out of school or had their public loans revoked. So WTF does the constitution have to do with it?

    118. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much more just "british citizens who have dark brown skin" and who still retain some of their national heritage from wherever they came from.

      Do white are allowed to retain some of their national heritage?

      Before you answerer. Do some research on what "pride" groups are allowed to exists on the marxist-enabled social media. You will not find a lot of 'white-pride' there... black-pride, latino-pride, asian-pride, yes. Even sexual fetish pride are allowed. Just not white-pride. Cut the crap. You are a willing participant in the silent white genocide. Peoples always say 'never again' but they never learn. Humanity is a unfit species.

    119. Re:You don't say... by phmadore · · Score: 1

      Sure. So long as they're not on sports teams or other school organizations which have codes of conduct specifically disallowing things which bring disgrace on the University.

    120. Re:You don't say... by sumdumass · · Score: 0

      they may have some obligation to the university but the University is bared from certain actions because it takes public money. This makes them an extension of government.

      For instance, the DMV in most states is sub-licensed (franchised) to someone else who operates them per county or even city wide. They cannot make you agree to not calling black people racial slurs in order to get your registration renewed. They cannot deny your license renewal because you did so at some other site or because you have a pro life bumper sticker. And if they made you sign a contract as a condition of such, they cannot legally enforce it.

      There are a few court cases that say as much but I'm not where I can look them up at the moment. Someone else has posted them already if you look through the comments a bit.

    121. Re:You don't say... by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      Looks like I should have qualified that statement saying that if you live outside the US.

      Here's the local perspective...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      And a global perspective...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Singing racist lyrics as a group in a public place might actually be covered under this caveat, though IANAL, it does seem to apply:

      Some limits on expression were contemplated by the framers and have been read into the Constitution by the Supreme Court. In 1942, Justice Frank Murphy summarized the case law: "There are certain well-defined and limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise a Constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous and the insulting or “fighting” words – those which by their very utterances inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.

      That said, I haven't viewed the video yet, and likely won't, so I can't comment on exactly how injury inflicting their words were.

      One way to test it of course, is for a lone person from that group to head to a gospel church and try singing the song there.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    122. Re:You don't say... by phmadore · · Score: 1

      Are you saying they should do nothing, and hand out degrees to these kids, sending them into the world thinking that this sort of behavior will always be tolerated everywhere they go? Because that would be setting them up for failure, giving them the wrong idea of how society works, and thus not doing their jobs as educators.

    123. Re:You don't say... by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      While the government has to tolerate and protect racist free speech, all kinds of other private organizations and businesses do not.

      Last time I checked, the university in question is a government organization and the fraternity is a private one.

      By kicking out the frat charter, you send a clear message that civilized society won't tolerate such behavior and being racist will have negative consequences.

      Government imposed consequences on speech.

      If you examine the greek system, you will find that 100% of fraternities and sororities practice discrimination based on legally protected classes. Not exactly 100%, but close enough. Once you find a frat that allows women to be members, then you can start looking for another form of discrimination. Or a sorority that hires men (I once told a sorority member I was thinking of applying for the house mother position that she told me was open. She told me "don't bother". Men weren't being considered.) Then you can deal with black frats, Jewish, etc. (I hold the somewhat antiquated idea that "freedom of association" also means that you can limit who you associate with, not just demand that others have to associate with you.)

      Yes, what those students said was stupid and racist. Yes, it was probably (maybe) based on hate and not just parroting what they've been taught. Should the national hq for that frat disown them? Probably. Should the university punish them? Should the university not then punish every greek unit for discriminatory actions? If speech cannot be tolerated, then actions must certainly be worse. (At a minimum, people excluded from membership in a frat/sorority have been discriminated against in housing, and since many employment opportunities come through frat membership, employment opportunities, too.)

      Racism is insidious the way it creeps in around the edges. It destroys people's lives and harms society.

      Disallowing freedom of speech, including speech that offends, is perhaps a worse danger to society. It's not cut and dried.

    124. Re:You don't say... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't we make sure that the Black fraternity was punished instead of defending the other intolerant fraternities?

      Perhaps we should make sure that people are not punished for speech or thoughts and instead punish actions that harm others? That's the other side of the coin when comparing two cases of the same kind of speech resulting in two different results.

      As an example of maybe how things should be handled, refer to the case of a popular rap artist who made a name calling for the death of cops, who now makes a tidy sum of money as a regular on a TV show about cops playing a cop.

    125. Re:You don't say... by cusco · · Score: 1

      I think you just stepped on your own post. So far the Supreme Court has allowed prohibitions on hate speech, and until they rule otherwise it can be banned.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    126. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " In most of Africa—the vast majority of the 'black' world—you're safer than in any American city."

      I'm an American expat living in Kinsasha, DRC for an international corporation. Please renew your appreciation for American city safety levels and come visit and take a stroll downtown at night.

    127. Re:You don't say... by billstewart · · Score: 1

      My experience is from decades ago at a different college, and every college is different (though many nationally-organized fraternities may have some consistency to them), and things change over time. We had 40-50 fraternity houses on campus, with maybe 4-5 "Animal House" kinds of places, a few "snootier than you" places, a few black fraternities that were social organizations without houses, an engineering nerd house, a few Aggie houses, a coed house, about 10-12 sororities. There were also some non-fraternity special residentials - Hillel, Ecology House, Ujamaa, a couple of artsie/music places. About half the male students joined fraternities after freshman year (and there wasn't much dorm space for upperclassmen, so otherwise they'd live in nearby student slums or out in the sticks.) The fraternities had a no-poaching rule that said you couldn't be a member of more than one, which meant that the houses were a bit whiter than average, though the years that my house wasn't full, we did have one or two boarders who were members of one of the black fraternities.

      SAE wasn't any of those categories; they did have big open parties (drinking age was still 18, and they were close to freshman dorms, so yay, beer!), and a few noise complaints but not really more than average. I forget if the house where somebody died in an accident involving alcohol and falling was them or their next-door neighbor.

      --

      Bill Stewart
      New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    128. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it is different levels of bad, depending on how many people you are putting below you. The more people that you say you're better than, the less offense people will take to it:
      1. I am the best person in the world. Narcissistic yes, but no one would ever get angry over such a statement.
      2. My family (including ancestors) is the best family in the world. Pretty self centered but no one would think seriously about it.
      3. The French are the best people in all the world... ok, people from the other 200ish countries of non-french descent might glance up for a second, but again, who would take such a claim seriously?
      4. Blonde haired, blue eyed white people are the best people in the world... ok now we're starting to get noticed and piss people off.
      5. All white people are the best... most would agree this is offensive.

      After this is the moment it becomes easier to say "x is inferior" over "y is superior"; this is when it gets really bad. Instead of making a broad generalization about "your" race (which could simply be an extension of pride) you are making a broad generalization about a specific other race.

    129. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      I'm saying that if the university is holding expulsion or such over their heads, then their freedom of speech has been taken away by a government agency and that is clearly unconstitutional.

      If they are kicked out of a private organization that chooses to not be associated with such idiots, then no, their freedom of expression has not been hindered as the private organizations (inherited from its other members) is also in play here.

    130. Re: You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well there is a flaw to that. If the government pays a bunch of ex navy seals to go shoot up village thats maybe harboring a terrorist is it accurate to say that "blackwater did it. not the government"

    131. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who said anything about eradicating bigotry? I assume you are a frat boy, since you're offended by the thought of a university getting rid of greek organizations.

    132. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've noticed a lot of people calling for more freedom of speech tend to ignore the freedom of others to react freely to that speech.

      The call for more freedom of speech tend to be a reaction themselves, to people called for less freedom of speech (and freedom in general) when they reacted to some speech.

      That you focus on the former but the latter reminds me of... ah yes, you're just like the folks at GamerGate who blame the women for reacting to death threats, but not the harassers who made those death threats which caused those women to react in the first place.

    133. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see, you don't think making a campus unpleasant and possibly unsafe for minority students is a problem? I don't think you understand how racist that is.

    134. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      I am not saying whether I agree or disagree with the sentiments they are expressing as my opinion of that is not pertinent to the discussion.

    135. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm white, and I've not only wandered in Black neighborhoods, I've lived in them. You don't seem to understand that not all Black neighborhoods are crime and drug infested. Also, on the subject of drugs, do you know that on average Whites use more drugs than Blacks? Google it.

    136. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      I'm saying that a government agency can point out that society has ideas about what society finds acceptable but government agencies are not allowed to hold opinions of this nature nor take any type of punitive action against perfectly legal and constitutional actions and behaviors.

    137. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh look, the pope has a slashdot account. I say we wait for rev. Al to weigh in before we jump to any conclusions. After all, there are a lot of different opinions to consider against the actual number of people who give 1000 compressed giveashitz about this claptrap.
      Can the Chinese please just take over the world already? I don't think white people have their heart in it anymore. Just to be fair, how do you think people would react if a bunch of black kids in tuxedos started acting up on a bus? Tuxedos, that kinda completes that image, doesn't it. I hope this comment gets modded insightful, like all the rest of these gay retarded collection of words by morons. FUCK ALL OF YOU ASSHOLES.

    138. Re: You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DMV is a different entity than a university. Once you get your licensed renewed, you're gone and won't be back for a while.

      A more accurate relation would be if you were a employee of the DMV. In which case, expect your speech to be curtailed.

    139. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SigEps are racists.

      I guess it totally depends on the school. I am a SigEp and we had members who are black, white, yellow, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, etc (in fact, we were incredibly diverse); however, I think the main difference is that I attended a northern school...

      I also think you have your fraternities mixed up:

      Btw SAE != SigEp (Short name for Sigma Phi Epsilon)
      Sigma Alpha Epsilon != Sigma Phi Epsilon

      Google it if you don't believe me.

    140. Re:You don't say... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Perhaps we should make sure that people are not punished for speech or thoughts and instead punish actions that harm others?

      Speaking is an action, and one with potentially quite severe consequences. Should, for example, Goebbels be held blameless for the results of his speech?

      The pen is mightier than the sword; a tyrant would have little to fear from it otherwise.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    141. Re:You don't say... by FredThompson · · Score: 2

      SigEp is Sigma Phi Epsilon.

      The accused Fraternity here is Sigma Alpha Epsilon.

      (9 seconds of video? That's not enough to know the full context. What if the words just before were, "We'll never accept people who say," or something like that. This screams of Dowdification.)

      Fraternities are just like any other group of self-chosen associates, they bond over commonalities. Some are all white, some are all black, some are all Engineers, some are all Jocks, whatever.

      Prejudice and ignorance are fairly universal, as you've demonstrated.

    142. Re:You don't say... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I think some folks might have their outlook changed were they to visit another country where the majority are of a different race than their own.

      I've spent a fair amount of time in China. Most folks there don't seem to have a problem with me being white/foreign. But I do occasionally run into someone whose dislike of me based on those criteria is obvious. It's an eye-opener, to say the least.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    143. Re:You don't say... by FredThompson · · Score: 1

      OK, I found the video. Yup, pretty hard to see it as anything other than a racist rant.

      Googling the lyrics brings up a bunch of stories about it but nothing matched them from more than a day or so ago. I was wondering if there might be more to the chant but didn't find anything.

      I did find very blatant lyrics about killing blacks, whites, Asians, pretty much any group there is. Hate is a universal human emotion, unfortunately.

    144. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In most of Africa—the vast majority of the 'black' world—you're safer than in any American city.

      Then you're just a liar in general.

      http://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/World-Murder-Rate-Geocurrents-Map-1024x726.png

      African countries are generally known as rape and murder capitals of the world. And South Africa was the rape capital (maybe still is) and just dangerous as hell. And don't mention colonialism, because ex-colonies tend to be the most advanced countries in Africa.

      In fact, you can pretty much trace violence in black American (North, Central and South) communities to the legacy of the slave trade, to racial inequality that has led to economic inequality and chronic injustice.

      And Africa? Please, every country had slavery. And serfdom was the same thing, and parts of Germany had that until the mid-1800s. Not to mention eastern Europe.

      Fuck your noise. Put up some facts.

    145. Re: You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Exactly this.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    146. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      What's pertinent is that rights often conflict.

      While those college kids have the right to express themselves freely, meaning they will not be charged, arrested, handcuffed, jailed, or issued a summons to appear in court, the college itself also has rights which include enforcing school policy.

      The Constitution is not the document with standing in this matter.

      The college is in possession of the documents that provide compliance guidelines and proper college authorities have spoken.

      So it is written, so let it be done.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    147. Re:You don't say... by RoLi · · Score: 1

      It's only "racist" when whites are doing it.

      If blacks are doing it, it is "empowerment".

    148. Re:You don't say... by RoLi · · Score: 1

      Blacks genocided Khoi-San in Angola, Mosambique, etc. - now all violent deaths are black there.
      Blacks genocided (almost all) Pigmies in Kongo - now (almost all) violent deaths are black there.
      Blacks genocided Indians in Uganda - now all violent deaths are black there.
      Blacks ethnically cleansed Whites in Detroit - now (almost) all violent deaths are black there.

    149. Re:You don't say... by RoLi · · Score: 0

      Often compared to what exactly?

      Because blacks commit more violent crime than all other races combined, one can say: Compared to everything else.

    150. Re:You don't say... by RoLi · · Score: 1

      That's not true at all.

      Washington DC has a couple of black neighborhoods that are rich and violent.

    151. Re:You don't say... by RoLi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Don't you feel any shame?

      It's trivial to expose your lies, it's even on Wikipedia:

      Recently, gang-related incidents have been on the rise. Between the years of 1997 and 2005 over 300 gang-related deaths have occurred. [..] In late September 2005, Toronto police arrested 44 members of the Rexdale-based "Ardwick Blood Crew" also known as A.B.C.

      Hmm, also according to Wikipedia, "Rexdale's first residents were mostly English and Scottish, but evolved into a multicultural neighbourhood in the following decades."

      But there is more:

      Then in May 2006, 106 additional gang members were apprehended, who were part of Rexdale's "Jamestown Crew" (a Crip gang), in the largest gang sweep in Toronto's history.

      Hmm, what ethnicity could a gang be that is called "Jamestown Crew"?.... Hmmm, you will probably never know...

      In June 2007, Toronto police arrested about 95 people, including leaders of the Jane and Finch-based "Driftwood Crips" and the sister of murder victim Jordan Manners, for a lengthy list of 700 criminal charges.

      Aha, a "Crips" franchise gang. What ethnicity could that be... It's a mystery...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

    152. Re:You don't say... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      You mean the heritage of beating blacks with an inch and a quarter thick stick and then making the blacks that survive quote scripture that praises the white for beating them them? No.
      You mean the heritage where judges and ministers said that blacks were ordained by god to be slaves? Again, No.

      Dickenson festivals in waistcoats- sure.

      Knights on shining armor at the renfest- sure.

      White/asian/black/latino pride is merging so much faster than when I was growing up. But it still has a long way to go.

      As far as sexual fetish pride- you show me a person whose rabidly against a particular fetish- I'll bet you dollars to donuts that person wants to or already is practicing that fetish. Be it Haggard, or The Faye's, or Republican officials, etc. etc. etc.

      Let go of your hatred. Live your own life. Pass on the good things about your heritage to your children.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    153. Re:You don't say... by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 0

      That's because almost every single other group is a "white pride" (or at least celebration of western white culture) group in disguise. Everything that happens in the western world is more a less a celebration of what white men have created over the last couple hundred years of history. You just can't see it because it's become the default state of the world you live in.

      You colossal idiot.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    154. Re:You don't say... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      "Hate speech" is something like saying "The Holocaust is a hoax". No-one who says that believes it or has any kind of acceptable reason for saying it.

      I can assure you that there are plenty of people who seriously believe it. Nor should a reason be required to exercise a fundamental right.

      In any case, in US, there isn't really "hate speech" as a legal concept (there's "fighting words" and there's "incitement", but those are different). All examples that you gave in your post are protected free speech.

    155. Re: You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly you're not a student of history.

    156. Re:You don't say... by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Racism is fucking racism. If you're going to call it out don't get selective about it.

      Racial discrimination - like "that white bloke" (two for the price of one! sexual discrimination), or Racial bigotry - like "that uppity nigger"?

      'cos "discrimination" is Bad (m'kay)

      I'm told colour discrimination is bad - but it's easier to find my car when I employ it. I don't believe the colour of my car is superior to other cars - that would be stupid. (ya no wat I meen, roight?)

    157. Re:You don't say... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      As for TFA? As much as I myself detest racism and bigotry based on someone's religion/ethnicity/etc... Personally, I think they *should* be allowed to be total asshats about it. Seriously - as long as there's no assualt or other crimes against others, let them chant whatever the hell they want.

      I say this for two reasons

      This a million times. If you're free to be whatever, religion, political system, etc then you should be free to be a racist bigot (religion is basically carte blanch for racism/sexism anyway) until an actual crime has been committed then there should be no actual issue. Chastise the racists for being idiots sure, but leave the thought police out of it.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    158. Re: You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, there are limits. Limits to political speech, that is.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater

      The fire in a crowded theater quote was from a court case outlawing political speech, against the draft during world war 1. It has nothing to do with inciting a panic, and everything to do with abolishing the first amendment.

    159. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahahaha complete denial man. Do you think people believe your made-up stories like this?

    160. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You clearly don't understand the demographics of Toronto. "Multi-cultural" isn't a stand-in for black people here, it simply refers to the many immigrant groups that have come here from around the world. Crime in the city is as ethnically diverse as the rest of Toronto. Your disingenuous insinuation that it is only black people committing crime is just disgusting race baiting.

    161. Re:You don't say... by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      I'm not a "Greek", and I never have been or wanted to be, but your characterization of them is not consistent with what I have known.

      Neither was I, and I agree to a *small* extent. Mind you, I'm from Arkansas and it was a long time ago, but there were still frats (and sororities) that were, shall we say, a wee bit on the exclusionary side of things, and the exclusions were occasionally based on religion, skin color, ethnic origin...

      As for TFA? As much as I myself detest racism and bigotry based on someone's religion/ethnicity/etc... Personally, I think they *should* be allowed to be total asshats about it. Seriously - as long as there's no assualt or other crimes against others, let them chant whatever the hell they want.

      I say this for two reasons:

      1) College is supposed to be a place where all viewpoints and ideas are explored - even the ugly and stupid ones. Freedom of speech should hold highest priority in such a place.

      2) The video (and anything like it) can serve as an example to point at and instruct against; a competent prof can debate the racist activity into the dirt, in a setting that educates everyone else, and (hopefully) teaches the racists in question along the way.

      By kicking out the frat charter, you only drive the problem deeper underground... and where is the frickin' benefit in doing that among a body of kids that are going to be naturally rebellious in the first place? You only make it more attractive to such a mindset.

      By not kicking out the frat charter you are condoning what was done, implicitly - which the school won't do.

      Additionally I think it's an excellent lesson to be learned - being stupid has consequences. If they don't get kicked out, they don't get punished...no lesson learned except that they can get away with it.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    162. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, asshole. In those areas you mention, what percentage of violent deaths are Black?

      Probably pretty fucking high, since no white in his right mind would ever go there.

    163. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't a free speech issue, it's not the government disbanding their frat.

      Since they are a public university, it is the government disbanding the frat.

    164. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Racism describes a system of disadvantage based on race. Black people can't be racist"

      Yes, because no black person could ever be, or has ever been, in a position of authority over a white person. It would be like trying to imagine a black President of the United States. Simply absurd!

    165. Re:You don't say... by Cytotoxic · · Score: 2

      I think the point is that Fraternities are often exclusionary by nature. A description that is not singular to white organizations.

      Example: take a look at the Alpha Phi Alpha web site. This is one of the preeminent black fraternities in the US. An elite group of young men. The recently deceased ESPN sports caster and all-around great guy Stuart Scott was an Alpha when I was in school. At that time they were exclusively black and often quite ardent about that fact. I'm a long way from campus now, but from their national website it doesn't look like their focus has shifted much.

      Another esteemed black fraternity is the Omega Psi Phi Q Dogs. A quick perusal of their website shows long list of esteemed members of society. There only appears to be one race represented.

      By contrast the SAE website seems to be an exercise in diversity. According to the first list I could find, TKE is the largest frat in the US. They were a big jock frat when I was in school and pretty much had the aura of the stereotypical frat boys. I think they had one or two minority members at that time. A quick look at their website indicates that they have a majority white, but diverse set of faces represented at their events.

      I'm no fan of frats or the fraternity system. When I was in school those of us who were not into the frat scene ridiculed those who were as weak-willed followers who needed to seek out artificial friendships and exclusive clubs to make themselves feel better about themselves. A few more miles on the chassis and I've revised that sentiment, but the claim that fraternities are exclusive by their very nature is certainly supported, as is the claim that white fraternities are more inclusive than minority fraternities.

    166. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't seem very familiar with black fraternities.

      In my experience, they're mostly concerned with being a better man, Jesus, that type of thing. That, and step-dancing. Not chanting about crackas.

      You don't seem to know very much about them either. In my experience the black frats were BY FAR the worst hazers on campus, among other negative traits. My local Q-Dog chapter (Omega Psi Phi for those of you who don't know what a Q-Dog is) actually killed a kid when I was a sophomore. They beat him so bad during pledgeship that he died from internal injuries. Google it and you can see plenty of other, more recent, examples.

      At least at my university, black frats were really more like gangs than anything resembling a traditional college fraternity--complete with beat-ins and everything. Most of their members weren't even in college. They didn't have houses (partly because no one would insure them, partly because their members couldn't be relied on to pay dues). And black frats ABSOLUTELY DID NOT EVER, EVER, EVER admit white members, not even the pathetic "whiggers" who used to hang around them.

      Basically we white greeks wouldn't have anything to do with them. The last thing you ever wanted to see was a Q-Dog or Kappa at your party (expect a 90% chance that he was going to at least start a fight before the night was over, with a 50% chance of something even worse). The A-phi-A's were the only black frat that white frats would have anything to do with, at least on my campus.

    167. Re:You don't say... by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 2

      Because blacks commit more violent crime than all other races combined

      You might want to check your numbers.

    168. Re:You don't say... by rockout · · Score: 1

      No crime committed, and no one is going to jail. The non-existent "thought police" aren't arresting anyone.

      Freedom of speech gives you the right to be a total asshole. However, it doesn't guarantee you the right to not be treated like an asshole when you act like an asshole. If you act like a total asshole, don't cry about "free speech!" when the rest of society treats you like one.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    169. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sir, are a totalitarian twit.

    170. Re:You don't say... by rockout · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For the millionth time, nobody disallowed these assholes their freedom of speech. You can chant whatever racist things you want to chant, and you won't go to jail for it. You won't even be forced by a court to pay a fine.

      However, freedom of speech doesn't mean "I get to say whatever I want and not face any consequences from society after I say it." If you're a racist asshole, and you make your racist assholery public, expect the public to treat you like a racist asshole. There's a reason these guys are only chanting that bullshit on a bus, and not out in the open in the quad. They know they're racist assholes, and they know if they spew this bullshit in public, they'll have to face repercussions. Which they now are. Exactly the right thing happened in this case.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    171. Re:You don't say... by Layzej · · Score: 2
      Does having a black president create a 'system of disadvantage based on race'? Let's look to the news:

      http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/03/09/ferguson-mo-judge-resigns/24673097/

      http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/03/black-america

      http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

      http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/missouri-supreme-court-takes-over-cases-in-ferguson-judge-resigns/article_7442c873-a1a1-581f-b4b4-20f93972d91e.html

      http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/03/05/390697727/a-black-tax-at-charlottes-ritz-carlton

      http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/03/07/police_officer_shoots_apparently_unarmed_black_teenager_in_wisconsin.html

      I do not see whites being systemically disadvantaged here.

    172. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your anonymity is doing that for you.

      Piss off.

      On some other lawn.

      $1000 cash says you don't have the courage to say the above to my face.

      So take your internet brave crusader bullshit and shove it up your sanctimonious faggot ass.

    173. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      But this "hate speech" that can be restricted is when the speaker knows there is an IMMEDIATE danger, like inciting a riot. There is a very *wide* latitude given to the speaker in this regard and a very narrow ledge for the government. Government cannot violate free speech rights without a clear and immediate danger caused by the speech, and it's not a crime unless the speaker knows of the danger and still does it.

      What these frat boys did wasn't even close to hate speech, by any stretch of the imagination, at lest for those who understand what the "freedom of speech" really is.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    174. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Now on that question, I have no answer. Ask the frats, I'm sure they think it's worthwhile.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    175. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Read the whole thread... I jumped into this fray because a previous poster claimed that what the frat boys did was "hate speech" and thus "illegal". They where making the argument that because it was illegal speech, they had no right to do it.

      So I responded that they did indeed have the right to do it (as stupid as it was), but the college also had a the right to punish them.

      Freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom from consequences. It just means the government cannot put you in jail for saying something, not that your boss cannot fire you for exercising your free speech rights at work.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    176. Re:You don't say... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      I never cried free speech? And the so called thought police are very much a thing, just not in any official written in sense. Look at those people that go around getting total strangers sacked for saying slightly racist things on twitter. Oh the company may not want to be associated with that person so they should watch what they say etc. There's your fucking thought police, regardless of the fact most of these people have done noting wrong in a legal sense and I highly doubt broken any clauses of their job contact to warrant an immediate sacking. These 'social justice warriors' that keep getting harped on about on /. seem very much like they would like to be the thought police. No sexist thoughts, no racist thoughts, all the time happy, everyone be nice to everyone, being offended by something is a slight against humanity. It's all a big bunch of shit. If I said something racist to you then you should totally call me on it, point out that it's an idiot thing to say but don't go running to my boss.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    177. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead, the college just drove them further underground and made them attractive to every little rebellious soul on campus.

      bit of an exaggeration. people join them, only because they are legitimate. you can be a rule breaker and get away with it. The people who join frats depend on the system, and are incapable of fighting it. None of them have the mettle to be at war with society.

    178. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am white, so when I have complained about a group being racist or exclusionary, I was just told "if you don't like it, then start your own." The problem with that is that if the one I start is exclusionary, it will be immediately shut down.

    179. Re:You don't say... by david_thornley · · Score: 1
      Some people who call it a hoax are simply lying assholes (I've seen some pretty detailed arguments that it was a hoax, none of which could stand up to any fact checking), but I suspect some of them do believe it. It always strikes me as odd: a neo-Nazi really should approve of it, and be proud of his leader for pulling it off. (Actually, said person shouldn't be a neo-Nazi at all, but that's another argument.)

      I also don't know why the call themselves Nazis. Members of the NSDAP did not use that derogatory nickname, but referred to "National Socialism" and "National Socialists"

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    180. Re: You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if they were exclusionary, as you suggest, actively seeking the company of those with similar background and actively mocking/hating/disrespecting others others is different.

      In the 21st century I am finding it harder and harder to distinguish groups that exclude from groups that mock/hate/disrespect. I am beginning to think that the basis and origin of racism itself is exclusion. I have no race. I am a hopelessly mixed person and every group I talk to rejects me on the basis of being different than them. So, I feel that racism and exclusion on a daily basis everywhere I turn.

    181. Re:You don't say... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Wow. It certainly sucks to be you.

    182. Re:You don't say... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Says the anonymous coward. Really, you ARE a complete fucking joke.

    183. Re:You don't say... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Yeah. It is. Also, do you ever stop to think of the consequences for black people going to a school that actively endorses a group of people who get together and chant about hanging them from trees?

    184. Re:You don't say... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      College is also a place where a student ought to be free to learn without worrying about a gang of mouthbreathers chanting their desire to hang him from a tree.

    185. Re:You don't say... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Bullshit.. There are NOT classes on every campus in the country that teach all men are rapists. There just aren't. You fear of the wymen is ridiculous.

    186. Re:You don't say... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Jesus god, there is nothing PC about finding that a group chanting about hanging the niggers from a tree probably doesn't belong on a modern college campus. And if you think they do, you probably don't belong there either asshole.

    187. Re:You don't say... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      So chanting about hanging the niggers from a tree isn't a threat?

    188. Re:You don't say... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      For the millionth time, nobody disallowed these assholes their freedom of speech.

      "Infringed" means more than just proactive prohibition.

      However, freedom of speech doesn't mean "I get to say whatever I want and not face any consequences from society after I say it."

      Please stop. Your straw man is too easy to rip apart. Nobody said anything close to that. "Society" is one thing; government is another. As I already said, and you completely ignored, if the home office for this frat, as a private organization, wants to yank the charter for the group, fine. But when the government acts to punish them for exercising a right, not so much.

      If you're a racist asshole, and you make your racist assholery public, expect the public to treat you like a racist asshole. There's a reason these guys are only chanting that bullshit on a bus, and not out in the open in the quad.

      So the public nature of the offense is in doubt. Thanks.

      The point is, the university is a state-run institution. It has different limits put on it BY THE PEOPLE than private groups do.

    189. Re:You don't say... by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      That's not at all hate speech. Hate speech requires there to be a specific target. As well, I don't agree with your statement that no-one who says that believes it. The individuals who do believe that the Holocaust was a hoax may be disturbed, but they definitely do exist.

      As once were the people who believed the Sun circled the Earrth. History proved them correct. I totally understand Holocaust revisionism (not denial) as there are holes so large in the current version you could drive a Mack truck through it.

      In the case of Antisemitism many feel such hatred and fear that they can convince themselves of beliefs or ideas that a normal person would consider completely irrational.

      Like the fact that the Jews have been kicked out of over a hundred countries in the last millennium or so and that it has absolutely nothing to do with their behaviour as a group but is solely down to antisemitism?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    190. Re:You don't say... by Zelucifer · · Score: 1

      I'm genuinely interested in knowing what holes you think there are in the Holocaust story.

      --
      The corner of a round room
    191. Re:You don't say... by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Would you honestly take anything someone said on this subject seriously? Be truthful.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    192. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up dumass[sic].

    193. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      I'm a totalitarian twit for suggesting that government agencies should not be allowed to punish citizens for the content of their speech? I guess I just don't understand "totalitarian".

    194. Re:You don't say... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Oh, so an authority figure said that those idiots have no rights so they have no rights? Welcome to the old (and new?) USSR/Russia!

    195. Re:You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Now you're getting it except you exaggerate by way of extrapolation.

      In any case, consider the 2nd amendment whereby American citizens have the right to bear arms.

      Oops ... paradox warning:

      Some American citizens in some government-provided housing are not allowed to bear arms.

      Some housing projects make tenants waive that right as a condition of moving in, and ... tenants can be evicted for having a gun on the premises.

      Another "housing project" would be, say, a jail. Prisoners cannot enjoy 2nd amendment rights.

      Further, certain felons are denied 2nd amendment rights.

      The paradox is resolved when we introduce due process.

      In the case where, yes, Americans are afforded free speech, the "gotcha" is due process.

      The due process may be by way of showing violation of ordinances or laws or contracts.

      Schools have rules, regulations, policies, and procedures that each student agrees to. That fits the definition of contract.

      That's due process.

      For that reason, we find that certain behaviours that put a school in a bad light are punishable by varying degrees of severity as set out in those contracts.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    196. Re:You don't say... by sinthetek · · Score: 1

      Who is blaming which victim, again?

    197. Re:You don't say... by BreakBad · · Score: 1

      No I'm not FUCKING SERIOUS.

    198. Re:You don't say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      It's not an IMMEDIATE threat when the frat boys are riding a bus to/from some activity, unless that activity is ostensibly to carry out that threat or to incite others to do so. Understand that the participants have not been shown to have the intent to carry out the threat, and as sick as it may sound to some, these kids where (in their minds) just having fun chanting about lynching.

      Where this is disgusting, it does not create an immediate danger to anyone, so it remains protected speech under the US's constitution, and is not illegal.

      But, need I remind you, free speech rights are not free from consequences if you exercise them. It's not a crime to express negative opinions about your boss, but if you do, he can still fire you if you exercise your rights and voice your opinion.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    199. Re:You don't say... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Protected by action from a federal government agency, possibly.

    200. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, wrong again.
      The university is a STATE organization, read that, GOVERNMENT.
      They cannot expel the students for protected speech. THAT IS THE FREE SPEECH PART.
      The issue of the frat is different. Please try and bone up on the law next time.

    201. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. The greatest danger to a young black man is another young black man.

      The first slave owner was Anthony Johnson, a black tobacco farmer who went to court suing for the right to turn his black indentured servants into permanent possessions. Europeans learned slavery from the Islamic slave traders who regularly raided Europe for slaves while they were in the throws of the Black Plague.

      DO you understand? Slavery for blacks replaced the indentured servant path to land ownership because a BLACK man sued for the right to permanently own his black indentured servants.

      Willful ignorance, indeed.

    202. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Safer in most of Africa than you are in ANY American city? Sorry, I have to call BS on that one. I know Africa isn't actually a cesspool like a bunch of people think it is, but most American cities are actually pretty safe.

    203. Re:You don't say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's one definition of racism, but not the only one. There has been a movement recently to try to make it seem like racism is only a system of disadvantage, but that's not what the dictionaries say. There should be another word for the system of disadvantage - coopting "racism" is not a good idea.

      I agree that the results of discrimination based on race (racism) are different depending on whether the advantaged or disadvantaged groups are doing it, but I don't think it makes it more okay for disadvantaged groups to discriminate.

    204. Re: You don't say... by metrix007 · · Score: 1

      That's a stupid type of example since people are hopefully not dumb enough to just believe someone yelling that if there is no evidence of a fire.

      However, the example is one of fraud. A fraudulent act is not the same as free speech, and I would argue it has little to do with the issue. It's just fraud.

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    205. Re: You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      It's not fraud.

      It's disturbing the peace, or creating a public disturbance, or disorderly conduct ... pick your venue and then pick the applicable ordinance.

      It's still illegal to yell, "Fire!" in a crowded theater when the actor knows there is no such fire.

      How about if we yell, "Fuck! There's a gunman!!!!" in a crowded theater or mall or store?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    206. Re: You don't say... by metrix007 · · Score: 1

      It's also fraud, if there is no fire in place.

      It's not illegal to yell Fire in a theater when the actor knows there is no fire. The law isn't worded so specifically. What is illegal, is creating a panic on false (fraudulent) premises, which can endanger people. That's why it's illegal.

      These days, yelling "Fire!" in a crowdedtheater will probably get you ignored at the best, and asked to leave at the worse.

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    207. Re: You don't say... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      So you're saying it's not specifically illegal to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire, but it is generally illegal (just not specific.

      That's crap and it's like saying it's not specifically against the law to steal a one dollar bill. Nowhere in the legal jurisprudence is the term, "one dollar bill" mentioned, however, it's still illegal.

      And fuck you for making me jump through your goddam hoop and throw this at you:

      In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. Fraud is both a civil wrong (i.e., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud and/or recover monetary compensation) and a criminal wrong (i.e., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities).

      Emphasis mine.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  2. Better to close the bars earlier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And keep the kids out.

  3. What else will Cameraphones ruin? by jandrese · · Score: 5, Funny

    Seems like you can't be a racist bigot anymore without someone taping what you say and posting it online. How are good old boys clubs supposed to survive in the new millennium? Are we going to have more places demanding people surrender their cellphones before entering? Between this and dashcams and cop cameras it's getting really hard to get away with being a total shithead anymore. We're going to have to see some senators step up and propose legislation to protect the children and good old fashion values soon or it will be too late.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
    1. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, they're doing everything they can to introduce such legislation. Of course they don't use plain English like you just did when they describe it.

    2. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm waiting for the gangsta rappers and make believe, wanna be thugs to be ruined for their racist, anti-gay, misogynistic, anti-social, violent cliched rants. You'd think with all of the cameras out there it would have happened already. Ahhh, right. When they say it, it's art. When anyone else says the exact same thing, it's a hate crime. Got it.

    3. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by clovis · · Score: 1

      Seems like you can't be a racist bigot anymore without someone taping what you say and posting it online. How are good old boys clubs supposed to survive in the new millennium? Are we going to have more places demanding people surrender their cellphones before entering? Between this and dashcams and cop cameras it's getting really hard to get away with being a total shithead anymore. We're going to have to see some senators step up and propose legislation to protect the children and good old fashion values soon or it will be too late.

      I solved that by using "Anonymous Coward" for all my public interactions, whether total shithead style or not.
      Ok, well, I can't recall my ever not having been a shithead, but you can see the potential for the technique.

    4. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well it certainly doesn't put a dent on black on white crime:
      http://i.imgur.com/bHqkA90.jpg

      But it seems we have to focus our energies not on chants that will certainly turn magical and kill people with their evilness....

    5. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Aighearach · · Score: 0

      You've got some derp in your neckbeard.

    6. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Don't believe the hype!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    7. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. There is a reason that the KKK wore hoods to hide behind, and why AC's spew such vitriol. The need to own up to your actions, through videotape or other, makes people more reasoned.

    8. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The need to own up to your actions, through videotape or other, makes people more reasoned."

      Maybe accountability for ideas hinders free expression of thought?

    9. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    10. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      by clovis (4684) Alter Relationship on Monday March 09, 2015 @03:44PM (#49217993)

      Its all over now, you screwed up!!!!

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    11. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why votes are public.., oh wait.

    12. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very true. Finding balance against heavy-handed suppression and freedom is an issue with all governmental systems.

      Not sure how "you can string him from a tree" has anything to do with novel thought though. In this case it is pretty clear.

      Seriously though I think that your point is important though and I hope the university or others don't destroy these kids lives which might just make them more bitter toward society etc. They just need to loudly and clearly get the message that the vast majority of society finds this behavior not acceptable.

    13. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He dun goofed!

    14. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take a look at the definitions for these three words:
      racist: a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
      bigot: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.
      prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
      I think "bigot" and "prejudice"--as defined above--are negative words. Being a "racist"--as defined here--just shows that you're paying attention.
      Society has given the word "racist" a negative connotation. But if you take a look at the actual definition, what's so bad about being a racist?
      Anyone who makes any judgment statement about any race being better at any one thing than another group is being racist. And, IMHO, there's nothing wrong with that. To never make any such observations would show you're blind.
      I don't care what anyone calls me. But I'd rather consider myself a racist (which defined properly is a neutral word), than a bigot or prejudiced (both negative words).
      Does this make sense? Or am I missing something?

      http://www.reddit.com/r/coontown

    15. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The christian neocon is a distinct minority when it comes to discrimination these days.

      Such a shame. Where oh where is a good gay bashing, God fearing, science denying, nigger hating, red-blooded American neocon man supposed to congregate in these dark days since Strom Thurmond's passing? It's not as if there are hundreds of thousands of clubhouses for such people.

    16. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by nobuddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We will know that the persecution of Christians in America has finally ended when we get a Christian President. Or 44 of them in a row.

    17. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by NoKaOi · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      christian neocon is a distinct minority when it comes to discrimination these days.

      Look, I know you're a troll, but I'm going to feed you anyway. While most Christian neocons have learned to shut their mouth in public when it comes to racism, check out any conservative blog or Facebook page and you'll see it riddled with hateful anti-Muslim comments, along the lines of saying we should kill them all, or blow them all up, or round them all up and lock them away (ahem, concentration camps).

    18. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Wait, so Clovis was that Anonymous Coward guy all along?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    19. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      Apparently that is the case. i always suspected too....

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    20. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by ThatsDrDangerToYou · · Score: 1

      christian neocon is a distinct minority when it comes to discrimination these days.

      Look, I know you're a troll, but I'm going to feed you anyway. While most Christian neocons have learned to shut their mouth in public when it comes to racism, check out any conservative blog or Facebook page and you'll see it riddled with hateful anti-Muslim comments, along the lines of saying we should kill them all, or blow them all up, or round them all up and lock them away (ahem, concentration camps).

      Also, we shud nook th3e entire middle earth.

    21. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Yeah, meanwhile, affirmative action is the law of the land. Add it to your list there.

    22. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      So how many bigoted affirmative action justice warriors per bigoted christian president has it been?

    23. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by epyT-R · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not a troll because I'm not trying to incite anger. I get labeled as such by moderators who don't have rational counters.

      Yeah, meanwhile, feminists like oprah, the loons on the 'view', and race baiters like al sharpton are in front of the cameras generalizing and stereotyping their targets for all to see in public view. Which is worse? I don't have issue with neocons being called out for bigotry, but the left seems to think it is exempt from the same criticism. The only thing worse than a racist is one who accuses others of the same.

    24. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by BForrester · · Score: 2

      When they say it, it's art. When anyone else says the exact same thing, it's a hate crime.

      You can't play the us and them card both ways. That's kind of like saying the problem with unarmed blacks being shot by white police is that the police aren't shooting enough unarmed whites to compensate. Discriminatory rants are reprehensible, and any record company or educational institution that wants to distance themselves from conduct that paints the whole group as uneducated, crass, and antiquated is constitutionally allowed to do so.

      In the meantime, get back to me when you have trouble being accepted into the institution or club of your choice because you don't align with the majority race or creed au jour. Hatred is a different thing altogether when it is condoned or enforced by the power-holding majority.

    25. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      I'm not defending christians here, I'm attacking hypocrisy, and right now, the left has that in spades when it comes to 'social justice.'

    26. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So close... If they say it outside of a rap song they generally are condemned for it. People accept that songs are not always the writer's actual beliefs, even if the writer is white. Remember Dire Strait's Money for Nothing? The "little faggot with his own jet airplane"? I think most people accept that Knopfler was speaking as a character here, not expressing his own views.

      Sometimes songs do go too far, and are rightly condemned for it. It's not black and white I'm afraid, that's just not the nature of human society.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    27. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by hondo77 · · Score: 1

      Poor oppressed white male. Will the constant injustices against you ever end?!?

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    28. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by aitikin · · Score: 1

      Also, we shud nook th3e entire middle earth.

      Not the Hobbitsses! NOOOO!!!11!1!

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    29. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, white people can't play the us and them card? I don't understand...

      Have you even remotely paid attention to the last decade of rap? Or only what you hear on the radio? This isn't a creed au jour, it's an entire goddam culture. Screw STEM, let's focus on getting our kids to wear pants that fit.

    30. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess it's a good thing I'm equal oppurtunitst as I hate all Humans. You can't live with them and they bring property values down.

    31. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by zieroh · · Score: 1

      I'm not defending christians here, I'm attacking hypocrisy, and right now, the left has that in spades when it comes to 'social justice.'

      You say you're not a troll (at least you did in an earlier post) but your behavior is indistinguishable from a troll. Ergo, I still think you're a troll.

      And if you actually believe the nonsense you're spouting, then you're a sad, pathetic excuse for a human being.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    32. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by zieroh · · Score: 2

      I'm waiting for the gangsta rappers and make believe, wanna be thugs to be ruined for their racist, anti-gay, misogynistic, anti-social, violent cliched rants.

      When those gangsta rappers and thugs become senators, company presidents, or the captains of industry and subsequently start imposing their views on their constituents / employees / industries, then you will have a point. But until those gangsta rappers and thugs have any kind of actual power imbued upon them by their standing as a majority, then your argument is meaningless and paints you as a racist idiot.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    33. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by nobuddy · · Score: 1

      Dunno. How many bigoted christians do you count as?

    34. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by BForrester · · Score: 1

      When was the last time that discriminatory or hateful lyrics kept you out of a job, or denied you a promotion, or barred your access to a function, or subjected you to unreasonable enforcement? You have the right to play the us vs. them card as soon as you're in a situation of inequitable power distribution and it actually means something to your way of life or standard of living, not just, and I'm not saying that they legitimately don't -- "the things that those other people do bother/offend me."

      The purveyors of rap music don't have the influence to discriminate in any meaningful sense. The white majority does.

    35. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are talking about the extremist terrorist Muslims not ALL Muslims and you know it. And most likely they are Liberals saying they are conservatives since that is typical of what they would say. We may have Christian Presidents, but they always allow the persecution of Christians. Even Democrat Atheists cheer when Christians are killed.

    36. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by clovis · · Score: 1

      by clovis (4684) Alter Relationship on Monday March 09, 2015 @03:44PM (#49217993)

      Its all over now, you screwed up!!!!

      yep, I'm busted now.
      If nothing else, all should bow down before my incredible productivity.

    37. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I love it when idiots such as yourself try to play word games in order to justify their false beliefs.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    38. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      yet your statement contains no arguments for or against.. just a bunch of name calling.

    39. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      dunno.. You'd have to ask those in governments and institutions when they'll get tired of it. I'm not the one doing the oppressing. You'd have to talk to organizations like NOW, planned parenthood, the KKK, and the NAACP.

    40. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have a club where we won't allow just anyone. No, it's not about race, and not even about gender. The club is invitation only, and acceptance of the new member by every existing member. So, pretty exclusive you'd say? Exactly like your circle of friends. Since the point is to spend time with the members of the club we won't allow the kind of people in we don't want to spend our time with. We don't hate anyone, we just rather hang out with the people we like.

    41. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by jandrese · · Score: 1

      He's not even playing word games. He's outright saying that he's racist and proud of it because he's obviously superior to the other races and that's not even a debatable point. He's just saying that he won't hold his obvious superiority against them. The reddit link on the bottom was the cherry on top.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    42. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The purveyors of rap music don't have the influence to discriminate in any meaningful sense. The white majority does.

      Oh really ?

      You should tell that to the parents of Eve Carson, who was murdered by black thugs who
      by all accounts embraced violence as a lifestyle as exemplified by lyrics in rap "music".

    43. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      So this is the guy posting all that racist crap as first post whenever possible?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    44. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by zieroh · · Score: 1

      yet your statement contains no arguments for or against.. just a bunch of name calling.

      Why waste good thought-power on a racist troll?

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    45. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember Dire Strait's Money for Nothing? The "little faggot with his own jet airplane"? I think most people accept that Knopfler was speaking as a character here, not expressing his own views.

      It was actually a quote from the store worker whose rant about rock stars was overheard by one, and inspired the song.

    46. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      They have exactly the same rights to hate speech that the rest of us do. The reason nobody comes and arrests them for their well-publicized rants is that they're not doing anything illegal. The reason they profit from it is that some people are willing to support that kind of trash. There's profit to be made in all sorts of despicable ways.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    47. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      I wish I had a nerdy friend

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    48. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Scrabble?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    49. Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? by hondo77 · · Score: 1

      You're not oppressed. You're a whiner. Big difference.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
  4. My two cents... by ckatko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The guys were racist, they got the hammer of justice thrown at them. They suffered consequences and will have to deal with and learn from them. Case closed.

    Not all men are now magically racist, nor college students, nor frats. The system doesn't need to change. Everything worked as intended.
    Personally, I don't think we need to make every event that happens into some huge debate over whether our culture is circling the drain and chanting, "There needs to be a law!".

    That's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree, and I hope you have a good day.

    1. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fine. Lets close the all-girls colleges too for having sexist and chauvinist policies.

    2. Re:My two cents... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That isn't the hammer of Justice, that is the Reality of the Public Discourse, the Natural Social Consequence of Freedom of Speech.

      They spoke, other people reacted according to their established prerogatives. No Justice needed.

    3. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The guys were racist, they got the hammer of justice thrown at them. They suffered consequences and will have to deal with and learn from them. Case closed.

      The punishment seems a bit disproportionate to their offense to me. Here we have a group of college guys belonging a fraternity that was formed in the Antebellum South, that sang along to a racist chant that probably came about before the Civil War. Awful, without a doubt, and part of a legacy that should have been jettisoned long ago, but they were on a private chartered bus full of their fraternity brothers and felt free to engage in some very un-pc behaviour. There's no evidence from the clip that they harassing, or directing that chant to anyone else but themselves. I just think it takes more than just one out of context moment of tasteless revelry to evaluate someone's character and decided whether they deserve the "hammer of justice" to pummel them so severely as to damage their future.

    4. Re:My two cents... by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The guys were racist, they got the hammer of justice thrown at them.

      One problem there - In the US, you have every right to hold racist views. You can't act on them in certain protected contexts, but you can rant day in and day out about hating blacks or Jews or Asians or, yes, even Whites.

      Now, I have no problem with the university choosing not to support a racist organization - If I attended OSU, I'd much rather the university disband the entire "Greek" system (see? I have a right to that particular prejudice, except I won't find myself homeless a week from now as a result). But talking about expulsion and searching frantically for actual crimes to charge them with, for singing a stupid racist song?

      No. We need to collectively get a fucking grip, and move on. Stupid kids doing stupid things.

    5. Re:My two cents... by bws111 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You do realize that the 'hammer of justice' came from their own organization, right? You also realize that they used the name of the organization in their stupid little chant, which reflects very poorly on the organization, right?

      What is 'disproportionate' about the organization not wanting to be associated with these morons?

    6. Re:My two cents... by hey! · · Score: 2

      We don't necessarily know as much about the young men who did this as we might think, though.

      Let me tell you a story that illustrates what I mean. On a recent trip to NYC, I was people-watching on the subway when I noticed something interesting. When women were traveling with with their women friends, their faces express a kind of delight in each others company. When you notice it, it's something quite striking and beautiful. So I started to look at the men to see if they ever did the same thing. Most of the time when you see a guy talking to a friend you can't tell whether he's helping his buddy through a breakup or suggesting how to fix a problem with his wi-fi. But after searching all day for that same spark of delight I finally found it, on the faces of two drunk Australian college students who were throwing snowballs at the windows of the NYC detention facility (i.e. jail) downtown.

      The lesson: in our culture men bond often by making asses of themselves.

      Which doesn't mean these frat boys weren't creating a hostile racist atmosphere. It's true boys will be boys, but the flip side of that is they won't start acting like men until someone makes them face the consequences of acting like a brat.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    7. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is true, if someone wants to call someone a nigger commie kike wap slope chink spic raghead or whatever else... that's all entirely permissible under free speech and opinion. They can even make their own exclusive organizations, recruit others and so on. You have no rights to intervene other than to counter whatever message you don't like with one of your own. It will all even out in the end. That is the beauty of freedom and of speech.

    8. Re:My two cents... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      The guys were racist, they got the hammer of justice thrown at them...... The system doesn't need to change. Everything worked as intended.

      Indeed. The system does seem to work and is actively discouraging such attitudes. You cannot mandate one change their minds, but you can actively discourage the mindless drivel finding expression though punishments like this and maybe even enlighten some of these young minds as they think about all this.

      Personally, I don't think we need to make every event that happens into some huge debate over whether our culture is circling the drain and chanting, "There needs to be a law!".

      There ALREAY is a law, enshrined in our constitution as the first amendment. Problem is, most people don't think about the freedom that this law brings and they see nut jobs doing things for shock value and demand that law. The problem really is that the first amendment guarantees the freedom of expression of literally ANY perspective, ANY religion, Any opinion. If and when you start making laws that put limits on the expression of perspectives, religion or opinion, you step out on to the slippery slope where the first amendment doesn't mean what it says anymore and eventually there will be no freedom of speech. Yes, you will have to endure being offended by other's expressions, but you get freedom to express yourself in exchange.

      So I agree with you, we need no more laws for this. We need to grow thicker skins and learn to appreciate what freedom of expression brings to this country, what it means to our freedoms.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    9. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I won't disagree about the national SAE organization revoking OU's chapter. It's a private organization and if they don't want to go through the public scrutiny and shit the OU chapter caused, they are certainly have the prerogative cut their association quickly. I'm more concerned with OU President Boren's public talk of withholding student services from the evicted frat students and the university undertaking disciplinary measures including possible expulsion for engaging in private speech no matter how awful that speech was.

    10. Re:My two cents... by bobbied · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mod parent up!

      They have the FIRST AMENDMENT right to say and chant anything they want. As long as they are not inciting a riot or stirring up violence or breaking the law by others, they have the right to hold any opinion and express that opinion.

      What we need to realize is that this freedom of speech we have means that the other guy (or gal) has the right to offend me with their opinions, because if you restrict THEIR speech based upon your being offended, then there really is no freedom of speech anymore; you have the thought police then. We need thicker skins and a large doses of tolerance, not restrictions on speech.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    11. Re:My two cents... by NoKaOi · · Score: 5, Informative

      But talking about expulsion and searching frantically for actual crimes to charge them with, for singing a stupid racist song?

      So, where does it say anything about criminal charges, or even expulsion? The are closing down the frat chapter. Beyond just being racist, this is probably what did them in the most, FTA:

      The chant vows that African-Americans will “never” be allowed to join the campus chapter.

      First off, it is illegal (though not criminally) to deny somebody admission to anything based on race. Secondly, they don't have to commit a crime to be banned, in general universities have policies and codes of conduct, and if you violate those you can be expelled. In this case it appears the frat is being closed down because they violated university policies, not because they committed crimes.

    12. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 1st amendment only prevents the US GOVERNMENT from censoring your speak.

    13. Re:My two cents... by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      Kids?

    14. Re:My two cents... by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why do folks keep on bringing up the First Amendment when people act like clowns?

      1) the first amendment only prevents the government from slapping you down. This was a slapdown by a private entity.

      2) Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. Act like a clown, expect them to slap a clown suit on you.

    15. Re:My two cents... by wickerprints · · Score: 1

      Such behavior may not rise to the level of criminality, but there's no reason why OSU should not feel entirely justified in expelling these students. Expulsion is a consequence of either gross academic misconduct, or severely antisocial behavior that is against university policy. OSU isn't the government and its students do not have a legal right to attend. Otherwise, anyone could just decide they want to go there regardless of admissions.

      These students did what others did: they applied and were accepted under the condition that they would behave according to university standards. Expulsion is the university's mechanism of saying that they cannot tolerate such behavior, as in their view, what they did was so egregious that their continued enrollment would be critically disruptive to the campus.

      It's unfortunate you don't seem to understand the difference between legal action and expulsion. The latter is like getting fired from a job. You violate company policy, you get fired. End of story.

    16. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They violated 1, probably 2 oaths.

      First would be the University oath whenthey accepted admittance, likely signed as well, probably dealing with student diversity and acceptable behavior. Second is likely the fraternity charter. National 'Greek' organizations tend to frown when a local chapter embarasses them, well, nationally. They will often cut that 'nose off' to spite the bigger face. Such is the nature of 'Greek' life.

      The other issue is, you can't claim these students aren't 'on their way to adulthood', that whole concept of college besides the degree..., and let something like this slip. Otherwise, you undermine an entire foundation of academia being above the lowest common denominator, that is, 'the street'.

    17. Re:My two cents... by bws111 · · Score: 2

      No, it is not illegal to deny somebody admission to anything based on race. It is illegal to deny employment or housing based on race, and if a place is open to the public (stores, restaurants, etc) you can't deny admission based on race, but there is nothing preventing a private organization from denying admission based on any criteria they choose.

      Remember that in additional to freedom of speech you also have freedom of assembly, which means you get to choose who you will associate with. There are plenty of private organizations that restrict membership based on criteria that would not be allowed in a 'public' setting.

    18. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, I have no problem with the university choosing not to support a racist organization - If I attended OSU, I'd much rather the university disband the entire "Greek" system (see? I have a right to that particular prejudice, except I won't find myself homeless a week from now as a result). But talking about expulsion and searching frantically for actual crimes to charge them with, for singing a stupid racist song? No. We need to collectively get a fucking grip, and move on. Stupid kids doing stupid things.

      This is OU. Different school.

    19. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OU not OSU

    20. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first amendment keeps getting brought up because society acting like this is against the ideals of free speech. We are censoring each other through social pressure and completely accepting of it all because it isn't being done by the government.

      Even if no govt censorship is occurring, the chilling effects of limiting speech against the collective opinion is still achieved.

    21. Re:My two cents... by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 1

      Less "stupid kids" and more "leaders of tomorrow".
      In the future, these students may come into a position of power, where they can then discriminate based upon their prejudice. Why would UO want to be a part of that process?

      Moreover, why would UO want to be represented by these students at all? Would you want to be?

    22. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait a second. In this country we have a thing called due process. Yes, the video is reprehensible. Yes, someone ought to have the "hammer of justice" thrown at them. Let's just make sure it gets thrown at the right people. How hard would it be to make a video like this, then post it in a way to implicate an innocent group? Not very.
      I'm not saying that's what happened here. Just that so many folks have jumped so quickly to conclusions before all of the facts have been sifted through.

    23. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up!

      They have the FIRST AMENDMENT right to say and chant anything they want.

      Yup... theyre not in jail for their speech... so their rights have not been violated.

      After showing us what racist idiots they are, their hosts decided to show them the door... nothing unconstitutional about that.

    24. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The First Amendment also applies to universities that take government funds.

    25. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure - Just as long as the university pays back every penny these students paid in tuition and fees, as well as making them whole for the income they could have made working a full time job rather than attending a school more concerned with its public image than academics.

    26. Re: My two cents... by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1

      How's that go? Your freedom to shake your fist ends at my nose.

      There are consequences to all actions, even speech. You basically posit that the good actions to the speech sayer and all other speech sayers are always greater than the negative effects of the rest of humanity. I posit that's not always the case.

    27. Re:My two cents... by TheColorTwelve · · Score: 1

      Such behavior may not rise to the level of criminality, but there's no reason why OSU should not feel entirely justified in expelling these students. Expulsion is a consequence of either gross academic misconduct, or severely antisocial behavior that is against university policy. OSU isn't the government and its students do not have a legal right to attend. Otherwise, anyone could just decide they want to go there regardless of admissions.

      These students did what others did: they applied and were accepted under the condition that they would behave according to university standards. Expulsion is the university's mechanism of saying that they cannot tolerate such behavior, as in their view, what they did was so egregious that their continued enrollment would be critically disruptive to the campus.

      It's unfortunate you don't seem to understand the difference between legal action and expulsion. The latter is like getting fired from a job. You violate company policy, you get fired. End of story.

      OU.

    28. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it a private entity when you want racist asshole klans disbanded, but public when you want to take away the Christmas tree?

    29. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      !. The University is not a private entity. The students belonging to frat are being investigated and the OU President is talking expulsion for those involved.

      2. The chant happened on a private charted bus going to a SAE event off campus. People should have the right to act "like a clown" amongst themselves without fear of state repercussions

    30. Re:My two cents... by bobbied · · Score: 2

      Why do folks keep on bringing up the First Amendment when people act like clowns?

      1) the first amendment only prevents the government from slapping you down. This was a slapdown by a private entity.

      2) Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. Act like a clown, expect them to slap a clown suit on you.

      I'm not in disagreement with that. You are free to express your opinion about your boss by right, but your boss is free to fire you when you do.

      What I'm saying is that folks need to slow down the knee jerk "there should be a law" reaction to this kind of stupidity and grow some thicker skin when you hear stuff like this. So freedom of speech means you will eventually be offended by somebody and we need to accept that, just as much as it doesn't mean the speaker is free from consequences.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    31. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      And government at all levels have the same restrictions.

    32. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      And yet you just showed how freedom of assembly is simply tossed out the door in you want to charge a person for the privilege of eating the food you give them. Exactly why is requiring a person to give up his rights under the Bill of Rights compatible with the Bill of Rights? What's next, no search warrant required to search a business because it is a "public accommodation"?, On what basis do we keep retain our 4th amendment rights while owning a business but not our 1st amendment?

    33. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Yet if they were to participate in a drive by shooting or be killed by one, then they would be classified as children by all groups opposed to the private ownership of guns for the purpose of compiling statistics.

    34. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      The State of Oklahoma is not a government? In what crazy universe do you live in that States are not considered "the government". Next you'll be telling me that the nice lady that takes my property tax check every year that helps pay for road maintenance and the local elementary and high schools is actually working for a private company as well.

    35. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      same owner though.

    36. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      But the question really is this: Is it legitimate for the government to require that you give up your 1st amendment rights as a condition of attending a government run institution of higher learning? What if the university also had them sign a waiver that stated that the student could be strip searched by Oklahoma State Police at any time anywhere, whether on university property or not, without a further warrant or probable cause? Would that also be legitimate?

    37. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >1) the first amendment only prevents the government from slapping you down

      The University of Oklahoma is a state run school and therefore an extension of the state. That's why the "war on Christmas," wasn't just a passing thing. Public schools are run by government, as are town halls, etc.

    38. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) A private entity funded with public tax dollars.
      2) Yes, that's exactly what "Freedom" means.

    39. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      University of Oklahoma is a STATE university. In addition it likely gets public federal funding as well.

      It's not a private entity.

      Therefore your facts are wrong.

    40. Re:My two cents... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Amen, brother.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    41. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Why do folks keep on bringing up the First Amendment when people act like clowns?"

      "Why do folks keep on bringing up the First Amendment when people say things I don't like?"

    42. Re:My two cents... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that the national fraternity organization pulled their license or charter or whatever. I don't know who owns the building, but it might be the national organization, in which case they can evict the racists.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    43. Re:My two cents... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The First Amendment says you have a right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances, not that you have an absolute right to only associate with people you want to. If you don't like it, get a peaceful group together and visit your legislative and Congressional representatives.

      As far as police search goes, the police have the same right to enter a public accommodation as any other person. There's nothing legally stopping me from poking around a restaurant, and so there's nothing legally stopping a police officer from poking around a restaurant. (In either case, the poker can be asked to leave, and the police are free to draw their own conclusions from that.) What the police would gain from a search warrant is the legal ability to look around in the public and private areas.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    44. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the first amendment

      The first amendment and free speech are not identical. The concept of free speech is separate from the first amendment.

      Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences.

      Yes, it does. Look up "chilling effects". You're wrong, sorry.

    45. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why do you want to hate minorities then? There is a reason society pressures others to conform. Most persons are not violent and are generally accepting of others. But then there's always the assholes like you who want to have their right to be a total fuckwad. The rest of us are tired of your shenanigans.

    46. Re:My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know who makes comments like yours? A nigger commie kike wap slope chink spic raghead motherfucker, that's who.

    47. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      By search, I didn't mean walk in and look around, I meant actually search by opening drawers and going behind the counter and into offices where the general public is not allowed. That type of searching does require a search warrant, exactly as you stated.

      And yes, constitutional scholars (including SCOTUS, look it up - it happened in 1958 and at other times as well) have said that the 1st amendment does embody a right to associate as teh right to express frequently requires joining forces with like-minded individuals. This right of association is not unique to the US. Please enlighten yourself and don't be so willing to give up your rights just because you think doing so makes you safe from the monsters.

    48. Re:My two cents... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Except that the Supreme Court decision had nothing to do with what I was saying.

      I have the right to associate with the people I want to associate with, provided they're willing to associate with me. This isn't in question.

      This does not mean I have an absolute right to not associate with people I don't want to associate with. If I run a restaurant, or other place that generally serves the public, I don't have the legal right to refuse entry or service based on several defined criteria. I can still associate with people I want to, and I'm free to associate only with people I want to when I'm not operating such an establishment.

      There is no legal reason why I have to run or work in such an establishment, although it's often a good way to make money, so I'm not being legally forced to associate with anybody (although that still doesn't hold in many cases involving law enforcement officials and IRS auditors).

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    49. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Have you ever asked yourself exactly which of your rights are worth preserving.

      Saying that we have rights only until we interact with society is basically saying we have no rights.

    50. Re:My two cents... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Invoking the right to assemble rather presupposes a society, and so does the petitioning the government. With no society, the other First Amendment freedoms are sort of trivially satisfied, and hence meaningless.

      Perhaps I should have hammered more on the idea that the right to associate with those you want to associate with is not the right to not associate with those you don't want to associate with. There's a lot of situations where you don't have control over who you associate with, de jure or de facto, and I don't believe the Supreme Court has ever affirmed your right to not associate.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    51. Re:My two cents... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Yes, it has. That is why private clubs can remain private clubs.

  5. Boren's values by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Boren graduated Yale and was a member of the Skull and Bones secret society. I wonder how racially tolerant and diverse that organization was at the time he was in it, much less as it is now.

  6. Freedom of Speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A public university can't do anything. Removing the fraternity is a maybe, but thin ice. Any form of discipline against the students would be illegal.
    And for the "no freedom from consequences" crowd, it would be the same as the DMV cutting up your license, being denied public transit, or being denied food stamps/unemployment, all because you criticized the iraq war/NSA/obamacare.

    1. Re:Freedom of Speech by thaylin · · Score: 1

      A public university does not have to support all forms of speech. When you go to that school you typically sign a document stating you will limit your behavious to a set appropriate of being in that institution, a code of conduct, and that is legally enforceable. You could say that like the military you sign away some of your rights when you go the school for the duration of time you are in the school.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    2. Re:Freedom of Speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. What you post simply has no basis for truth. Read up on what freedom of speech actually means before spouting garbage.

    3. Re:Freedom of Speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_v._University_of_Michigan
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corry_v._Stanford_University
      etc etc.

    4. Re:Freedom of Speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, "freedom of speech" only applies if no one finds it offensive. Otherwise it's hate speech!

    5. Re:Freedom of Speech by Cramer · · Score: 1

      legally enforceable

      Wrong. Your First Amendment rights cannot be abridged by contract. If you were a black person on that bus at the time of the chanting, and you felt threatened, then you, and only you, have any right what-so-ever to call it "hate speech".

      The university may have room to close their frat house, if it is, or is on, university property. The national chapter ("HQ") can revoke their charter. But otherwise, the university has no legal standing to take any punitive actions towards the people in the video. (the volume of stupid demonstrated by the video is plenty. remember, the internet forgets nothing.)

    6. Re:Freedom of speech by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      The university gets federal funding, no?

      Your move. ;)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    7. Re:Freedom of speech by Lothsahn · · Score: 2

      The grandparent's post made no statements about the first amendment. He stated an argument that higher education should be about growing knowledge and that free speech is an essential component of it.

      He actually made a rather compelling argument that suppressing that speech may be more harmful than refuting it. After all, if willingness to challenge fundamental axioms of knowledge isn't allowed in a college setting, then where would it be?

      Racism is incredibly harmful. Suppression of ideas is harmful. The 1st protects our ideas and speech from congress, and the 14th protects us from racism.

      We the people are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"--the 1st amendment is not required for the right of free speech to exist.

      --
      -=Lothsahn=-
    8. Re:Freedom of speech by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 0

      He actually made a rather compelling argument that suppressing that speech may be more harmful than refuting it. After all, if willingness to challenge fundamental axioms of knowledge isn't allowed in a college setting, then where would it be?

      Agreed. As a corollary to that point, why are we not allowed to WATCH the video and judge for ourselves? Why should we have to take someone else's word for it that it was offensive? I for one don't make such assumptions. I want to see for myself.

      We the people are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"--the 1st amendment is not required for the right of free speech to exist.

      Yes, exactly. The Bill of Rights was an enumeration of rights that were presumed to already exist. The government did not grant them to us.

    9. Re:Freedom of speech by kwbauer · · Score: 0

      And the extension is that state congresses are also covered (and nearly every state constitution repeats most aspects of the federal one) so regardless of federal funding, the university in question is a (state) government run entity so the theory still applies.

    10. Re:Freedom of speech by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      As a corollary to that point, why are we not allowed to WATCH the video and judge for ourselves?

      Who's stopping you? It's here.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    11. Re:Freedom of Speech by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Is that treally true (not the military part)? If a public university can make you give up rights to attend it, can the same government make you give up rights to receive welfare payments? Let's try this out.

      According to you, if I attend a public university and I am not on a full ride scholarship then I am paying at least a portion of my own way (or find a sponsor such as a parent or loan guarantor) and but the state still has the legal right to demand that I give up my right to say bad things about black people.

      Now the tough question: If I am receiving welfare assistance from that very same government, does the state also retain the right to demand that I give up my right to say bad things about politicians or republicans or black people or white people?

      If the answer is not the same to both questions, please explain why. Why is one form of state assistance different in this regard (1st amendment) than another?

    12. Re:Freedom of speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey dumbfuck, he didn't say it was unconstitutional. You know the concept of freedom of speech exists outside of the constitution as well, don't you? As a generally positive virtue.

    13. Re:Freedom of Speech by HangingChad · · Score: 1

      Any form of discipline against the students would be illegal.

      That may qualify as the dumbest comment I've ever read on /. and, considering the competition, that's quite an accomplishment.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    14. Re: Freedom of speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      state-funded != state-run

    15. Re:Freedom of speech by rockout · · Score: 1

      Agreed. As a corollary to that point, why are we not allowed to WATCH the video and judge for ourselves?

      You are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    16. Re:Freedom of speech by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Eh? The video is everwhere.

    17. Re:Freedom of speech by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Who's stopping you? It's here.

      I should have made my point clearer. I know it's available. I meant that none of the stories I've seen in the news and on the net that squawk about it the loudest actually linked to it.

    18. Re: Freedom of speech by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Seriously? They are a state agency no different from state parks and public high schools.

  7. Re:"Superiority" by dontbemad · · Score: 0, Redundant

    White people certainly are the only ones capable of displaying racist tendencies, right?

  8. News for Nerds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lambda lambda lambda would have used some sort of HOSTS file, I'm sure, so such think would have never happened.

  9. But there are blacks only fraternity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess thats not racist... The world is a strange place...

    1. Re:But there are blacks only fraternity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was engineered to be that way. Welcome to cultural marxism.

  10. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Black racism is "socially accepted." Some drunk white dude says the N word under his breath, and the AG, President, race-baiting Sharpton and Jackson shows up, and the entire white population is put in the same bucket as a drunk frat boy.

    Blacks calling whites crackers, making fun of them in rap music, ostracizing and subjecting whites to crime in "their" neighborhoods and constantly falsely accusing whites as being racists and "the man" and keeping them down,etc.

    Dude, black fatigue. Im sick of it. And I'm sick of the horrible near totality of racism blacks have for whites and nobody calls them on it. Black racism and black racketeering to milk the system AND keep the majority of blacks on the modern welfare plantation is more of a policy of those the blacks vote for and their own broken fatherless homes and broken crime-ridden graffiti-ridden communities than anything whites do.

    Blacks kill more blacks by far than whites.

  11. Re:"Superiority" by thaylin · · Score: 1

    Or creating strawmen, right?

    --
    When you cant win, ad hominem.
  12. In other words... by Guy+From+V · · Score: 1

    Sunday night on the Row.

  13. SAE OK disowned by own national SAE board, as well by Kevoco · · Score: 1

    http://www.sae.net/home/pages/news/news---media-statements---fraternity-leadership-closes-chapter-at-university-of-oklahoma

  14. Re:"Superiority" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or college guys gleefully being un-pc...

  15. Re:Wow... by epyT-R · · Score: 0

    Hint: the party pushing racist and sexist policy these days is not republican.

  16. Re:"Superiority" by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

    I'm not aware of other races - in this country - that discriminate because they believe they're "superior" to those with skin different skin color, using skin color as the primary reason for believing they're superior. These people certainly don't act superior.

  17. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by ScentCone · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Wow, that's almost word for word the talking points Fox puts out.

    What's more interesting is that you can't be bothered to address the substance of the comment, but instead say Fox! Fox! Fox!

    Typical.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  18. Blatant clickbait, Slashdot by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 0

    Oh Dice, you knew this story would get four figures of comments so you just couldn't resist, could you? I'm not usually one of the "Not News for Nerds" crowd but this is sort of shameless -- if I want to see scorched earth on the comment boards I'll go read about this on Fox or Mother Jones.

  19. Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is this News for Nerds?

    1. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's the application of technology of various kinds to bring light to activities of an exclusive club that would not have otherwise remained secret. It's an application of pervasive surveillance technology combined with online services to publish the results of surveillance (or recording). It's also an interesting free speech question.

      In the real 1984 it's not Big Brother you have to worry about.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Nerds go to college?

    3. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

      It is if the following are true:

      1.) You are reading this

      2.) You're a nerd.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    4. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it's not like we look to "Revenge of the Nerds" as any kind of cultural identity.

      But speaking of which, was there supposed to be a joke for the Nerd Frat being "Lambda Lambda Lambda" ? Some kind of recursive functional programming reference, or just a simple pun on "lame" / "sheep"?

    5. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Informative

      I assume you're kidding, I'm missing it, and the WHOOSH! sound is about to happen, but...

      Lambda Lambda Lambda, or "LLL" as the name for the black fraternity was simply a play on the KKK name for the Klan.

    6. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by cayenne8 · · Score: 2
      While this may be quite repulsive and offensive to many...it IS still free speech is it not? It isn't against the law to go on a racist rant or sing a song or say you hate xyz people.

      Why would the college have any reason to discipline the students, especially if this is a public college(I haven't checked what kind of school it is yet)...that would in a way be government censorship would it not (if it is publicly funded).

      Freedom of speech kinda implies that there is no freedom from being offended....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Nope, thanks, that makes sense!
      Fun Stuff that I must have missed when I saw it decades ago... and just makes it more relevant to TFA :P

    8. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by sumdumass · · Score: 0

      Because you idiot, everyone knows that this kind of speech needs to happen in secret so as they do not identify you or anyone else when you are in positions of power and actually holding the brothers down.

      Oh wait.. Actually, that is not some organized ideology but that is all that will happen. People who are racist or whatever will just keep their mouths shut, associate with others they know in well determined privacy and you will have that much of a harder time determining if their actions in business or whatever is due to it or not. At least someone who is a known racists will know they have to hire minorities and treat them respectfully else face lawsuits.

      I'd much rather know and understand who the idiots are then have them casually working behind the scenes.

    9. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the real 1984 it's not Big Brother you have to worry about.

      you mean, "have to worry about, exclusively..."

    10. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1, Troll

      Why would the college have any reason to discipline the students, especially if this is a public college

      A fraternity is an officially recognized campus group. On some campuses they even have special housing. Yanking that privilege when the group behaves like a bunch of assholes is not censorship. It's not the same as belonging to Joe Bob's Gaming and Bar-B-Q society which meets every Sunday in Joe Bob's garage.

      Chanting about lynching could be seen as a credible threat of violence against African Americans. It is a grey area and would depend on context.

      For a student to saying "I don't like black people" is asinine and ignorant...but certainly not a crime and should not be a disciplinary offense. (For a professor or a TA to express such bigotry is a different matter. Still not a crime but a bigot isn't qualified to do that job.)

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    11. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because /. went mainstream, and all of these noobs don't know or care about science and technology.

    12. Re: Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fraternity is a granted privilege, not a right. The university grants them affiliation, and they can revoke it if it publicly embarrasses them. The individuals can continue to say or do whatever they want, just not in affiliation with the university.

    13. Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. Much of the danger of surveillance comes from the neighbor reporting you. This was true in some communistic regimes, and I think it was in 1984, though it's been a long while since I read it.

  20. Re:"Superiority" by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    As with "superior" soy sauce, it doesn't mean it is better, just that it fermented longer. You can tell the difference with just your nose.

  21. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, that's right; replying to Fox News talking points is typically a waste of time; not because the substance cannot be "addressed", but rather because the audience is deaf to anything that doesn't reconfirm their worldview.

  22. Bad from the top down by OverlordQ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm pretty sure SAE is bad from the top down:

    Sigma Alpha Epsilon has had nine deaths linked to drinking, drugs and hazing since 2006, more than any other Greek organization, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. More than 100 chapters have been disciplined since 2007, with at least fifteen suspended or closed since 2010. [...] As a result of these incidents, student members pay among the highest rates for liability insurance of any fraternity.

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    1. Re:Bad from the top down by sound+vision · · Score: 1, Insightful

      9 deaths in 9 years? Is that supposed to be shocking?

    2. Re:Bad from the top down by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

      That's 9 more then there should be.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    3. Re:Bad from the top down by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      They were frat boys, not bald eagles or spotted owls or something. There's no shortage.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Bad from the top down by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Informative

      9 deaths in 9 years? Is that supposed to be shocking?

      Most fraternities and sororities have no deaths in nine years. Rather than drinking too much beer, the SAE kids that I knew were nouveau-riche who preferred to party by snorting blow off Peruvian hookers.

      Last I looked at the student newspaper, they were continuing in the same mould.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    5. Re:Bad from the top down by zeroduck · · Score: 1
    6. Re:Bad from the top down by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Of course, they're also the largest fraternity organization, so logically they should lead raw stats, no?

      I'm pretty ashamed of my SAE brothers there, but I've taken great that in the last year SAE has been recognized nationally for taking some pretty bold steps to try to combat this sort of behavior, for example being the first national fraternity to effectively ban the pledge quarter because it was the circumstance of too much abuse.

      --
      -Styopa
    7. Re:Bad from the top down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bob?

    8. Re:Bad from the top down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bill. It's in his farking name.

  23. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, I feel ya, with my black boss keeping me down and promoting that unqualified Dwayne guy instead.

    Oh wait, nobody I work with is black, my boss isn't black, actually there isn't a black person in my office right now. I don't doubt that some black people aren't racist but to call us victims is rediculous, nobody in my family was ever property. I'm not surpried there are next to 0 black people in IT and the reasons are complex. However the claim of reverse racisim is just another manifestation of racism.

  24. Re:Wow... by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I guess the proto-Republicans don't fall far from their daddy's apple tree.

    Remind me again which party was the one perpetuating segregation and doing everything possible at the legislative and executive level in the south to prevent the progress of the civil rights movement? Oh, right, it was democrats. Remind me again which movement was championing mandatory sterilization of inferior women, eugenics, and other charming Master Race type strategies? Oh, right, it was the founding Progressives - a group that to this day is absolutely obsessed with labeling people, keeping minorities in low-class government dependency, and anxious at every turn to lock down free speech when people don't agree with them.

    The inheritors of those groups - contemporary Democrats and Progressives - haven't really changed their outlook a bit. They're entirely about thinking the least of minorities, and proclaiming their own elites as the group best suited to tend to them, like zoo animals, through the establishment and maintenance of an elaborate nanny state that knows best how to nurse them along. It was odious from the beginning, and still is. Jackass frat boys deserve the scorn they earn. Truly insidious left power mongers deserve a lot worse for the decades of misery they're proud to perpetuate.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  25. Re:Gee what a shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Oklahoma is "Midwest" not "South.

  26. Re:"Superiority" by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    You don't have to be a True Scotsman to build a perfect strawman, but the Celts did basically invent it, and none of this modern stuff compares.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...

    Oh, wait, oops, the story was just a Straw Man.

  27. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, that's almost word for word the talking points Fox puts out.

    What's more interesting is that you can't be bothered to address the substance of the comment, but instead say Fox! Fox! Fox!

    Typical.

    There is no substance. If a case were made and presently cogently, citing credible sources, maybe a response could be offered. The only verifiable statement made was "Blacks kill more blacks by far than whites," which just diverts attention from racism to murder (either can exist without the other). It is also true that whites kill more whites by far than blacks. Does that means "black racism" isn't out of control?

  28. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sorry to inform you that both parties push racist and sexist policies when it suits their goal of gaining power.

  29. Re:SAE OK disowned by own national SAE board, as w by ScentCone · · Score: 2

    In other news, strictly black-only frats and sororities have all also been disbanded for being racially exclusive, even when they have new pledges march around in militant formations chanting Nation Of Islam sayings and trying to intimidate white students on campus. Oops! That hasn't happened, and never will. Funny about that.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  30. difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > A grinning young man wearing a tuxedo and standing in the aisle of the bus pumps his fist in the air as he chants, while a young woman seated nearby claps.

    At least they showed some equality there. Thought womyn can never be racists.

    1. Re:difference by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Oh no, they can be racist; jut not sexist.

  31. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by jythie · · Score: 1

    And also because the 'substance' requires living in an alternative reality bubble that takes on a whole set of initial assumptions which can not be challenged.

  32. Expecting versus Accepting by kervin · · Score: 0

    The entirety of the greek system is racism and sexism in action. Give me a break with your feigned outrage.

    So your argument is that since we should expect fraternities to be intolerant ( an unsubstantiated premise, but that's another argument ), then we should accept intolerance within these organizations?

    Another example would be, since I expect the occasional murder in the city ( given the population size and crime statistics ), I should not be outraged when it occurs.

    It always interests me how Slashdot deals with logic when discussing intolerance ( and H1Bs ) versus everything else.

  33. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember to keep your hands up and yell "don't shoot" after you assault your next officer so the liberal media can swoop in and claim you were just walking down the street.

  34. Re:Wow... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    Not as an open matter of policy though.

  35. White kids use the N word.. See the video! by bhlowe · · Score: 1
  36. Re:"Superiority" by ganjadude · · Score: 1

    you havent looked hard enough. there are people from all groups who do believe such nonsense

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  37. so for clarification by nimbius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a millenial I dont find racism offensive, I find it contemptuous. it serves as reminder that a sizeable minority of americans willfully refuse to be a part of modern society. That theyre given a voice, taken seriously and sincerely at their word, and that they participate in my government and interact with my society is infuriating. that despite the best efforts of millions, there will always without question be a remainder of those who would rather cling tenaciously to racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia than get onboard and tackle real issues and challenges is a absurd to no end. You can live for yourself today, or you can work together to build a brighter and better tomorrow for everyone.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:so for clarification by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 4, Informative

      those who would rather cling tenaciously to racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia

      Rappers?

    2. Re:so for clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oddly enough, the vast majority of rap fans are white, not black .... it gives me the giggles every time I hear the exagerated thump-thump from a "pimped" white boy's wheels, extolling the impending vengeance of the "black man" :) too funny ...

    3. Re:so for clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a millenial I dont find racism offensive, I find it contemptuous.

      You're too young to realize that there is actually some element of truth in racism.

    4. Re:so for clarification by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      I hear that all colors and genders do. I'm not experienced enough to know if that is fact or just gossip though.

    5. Re:so for clarification by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

      those who would rather cling tenaciously to racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia

      Rappers?

      Oh, where are my mod points when I need them?

      --
      ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
    6. Re:so for clarification by phmadore · · Score: 1

      Couldn't get over the "as a millennial."

      It's not like you're a rarity, dude. Especially online. Wait until your vegan ways carry you into 90-plus range, then say you're a milenial and the kids will be like, Oh, shit, a millenial.

      At this point, it's just annoying.

    7. Re:so for clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "As a millenial? [sic]" What is that even supposed to mean?

    8. Re:so for clarification by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      oddly enough, the vast majority of rap fans are white, not black .... it gives me the giggles every time I hear the exagerated thump-thump from a "pimped" white boy's wheels, extolling the impending vengeance of the "black man" :) too funny ...

      It's only rock'n'roll.

      There's a brand new dance
      But I don't know its name
      That people from bad homes
      Do again and again

      (In case you don't get it: The white kids have been copying the black kids' music since practically forever.)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    9. Re:so for clarification by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      As a millenial I dont find racism offensive, I find it contemptuous.

      You're too young to realize that there is actually some element of truth in racism.

      You're too ignorant to realise that racism is complete bunk.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    10. Re:so for clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to keep calling out rappers in particular when others have already shown other music equally as bad. You sure it isn't something in particular about rappers that bother you, maybe the color of their skin?

    11. Re:so for clarification by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      You can live for yourself today, or you can work together to build a brighter and better tomorrow for everyone.

      That was a truly vomit inducing load of shit. Did you think of this concept yourself?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    12. Re:so for clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I learned something useful from my time in the military where every race is piled upon every other race and forced "to get along": No matter what the color of her skin is on the outside, it's all pink on the inside ;)

  38. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fact: The Republican Party was founded primarily to oppose slavery, and Republicans eventually abolished slavery. The Democratic Party fought them and tried to maintain and expand slavery. The 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, passed in 1865 with 100% Republican support but only 23% Democrat support in congress.

    Why is this indisputable fact so rarely mentioned? PBS documentaries about slavery and the Civil War barely mention it, for example. One can certainly argue that the parties have changed in 150 years (more about that below), but that does not change the historical fact that it was the Democrats who supported slavery and the Republicans who opposed it. And that indisputable fact should not be airbrushed out for fear that it will tarnish the modern Democratic Party.

    Had the positions of the parties been the opposite, and the Democrats had fought the Republicans to end slavery, the historical party roles would no doubt be repeated incessantly in these documentaries. Funny how that works.

    Fact: During the Civil War era, the "Radical Republicans" were given that name because they wanted to not only end slavery but also to endow the freed slaves with full citizenship, equality, and rights.

    Yes, that was indeed a radical idea at the time!

    Fact: Lincoln's Vice President, Andrew Johnson, was a strongly pro-Union (but also pro-slavery) Democrat who had been chosen by Lincoln as a compromise running mate to attract Democrats. After Lincoln was assassinated, Johnson thwarted Republican efforts in Congress to recognize the civil rights of the freed slaves, and Southern Democrats continued to thwart any such efforts for close to a century.

    Fact: The 14th Amendment, giving full citizenship to freed slaves, passed in 1868 with 94% Republican support and 0% Democrat support in congress. The 15th Amendment, giving freed slaves the right to vote, passed in 1870 with 100% Republican support and 0% Democrat support in congress.

    Regardless of what has happened since then, shouldn't we be grateful to the Republicans for these Amendments to the Constitution? And shouldn't we remember which party stood for freedom and which party fiercely opposed it?

    Fact: The Ku Klux Klan was originally and primarily an arm of the Southern Democratic Party. Its mission was to terrorize freed slaves and "ni**er-loving" (their words) Republicans who sympathized with them.

    Why is this fact conveniently omitted in so many popular histories and depictions of the KKK, including PBS documentaries? Had the KKK been founded by Republicans, that fact would no doubt be repeated constantly on those shows.

    Fact: In the 1950s, President Eisenhower, a Republican, integrated the US military and promoted civil rights for minorities. Eisenhower pushed through the Civil Rights Act of 1957. One of Eisenhower's primary political opponents on civil rights prior to 1957 was none other than Lyndon Johnson, then the Democratic Senate Majority Leader. LBJ had voted the straight segregationist line until he changed his position and supported the 1957 Act.

    Fact: The historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 was supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats in both houses of Congress. In the House, 80 percent of the Republicans and 63 percent of the Democrats voted in favor. In the Senate, 82 percent of the Republicans and 69 percent of the Democrats voted for it.

    Fact: Contrary to popular misconception, the parties never "switched" on racism. The Democrats just switched from overt racism to a subversive strategy of getting blacks as dependent as possible on government to secure their votes. At the same time, they began a cynical smear campaign to label anyone who opposes their devious strategy as greedy racists.

    Following the epic civil rights struggles of the 1960s, the South began a major demographic shift from Democratic to Republican dominance. Many believe that this shift was motivated by racism. While it is certainly true that many Southern racists abandoned the Democratic Party over

  39. what youtube video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no links to video? if i need to dig it up on my own, why do i need to read about it on slashdot?

  40. Re:"Superiority" by halivar · · Score: 1

    Considering the Scots had yet to invade England when Caeser wrote his commentaries, I'm afraid your straw man is no true Scotsman.

  41. Here's my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As awful as the language is, Univ. of Oklahoma is a public university. If they're considering expelling the students, wouldn't that be a first amendment violation? Assuming they are going to be expelled.

    Okay, so maybe the school has a certain policy to abide by, and maybe you think that's okay. (Not necessarily replying to the poster above.)
    That by agreeing to the policy, it is justifiable to expel someone over racist speech because it violates their policy.
    What if said policy were to contain a prohibiting not just on discrimination, but also complaint speech against the school?
    What if a student were to make complaints about school policies, conduct, whatever? Maybe you don't like their meal plans, and complain about it. Would it be justifiable to expel a student over that then?

    If it's a public university, the college should have to respect free speech. No matter how distasteful the speech is.

    However, losing their frat status is for the best since that's a private organization punishing their members.

    1. Re:Here's my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was at Bradley University when Matt Hale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_F._Hale) was there... they guy was a real winner... Yea, B.U. is a private institute, and so could have kicked his sorry ass out anytime they wanted to. However, they decided that so long as he maintained his academic standing and didn't do any of the 'incite to riot' sorts of things he could remain a student. I don't know if that was a good thing or bad. Not my decision (I was a student - and so was above my pay-grade), but I was asked about Matt by relatives, saw him on campus on occasion, etc. Beyond that, Meh! I'm left of center, but understood the dork's right to spout his drivel.

      As for these knuckle-dragging morons from UoOK..
      Close the chapter (check)
      Have the national kick them out (check)
      Publicly castigate them for their behavior (check)
      Kick them out of school for exercising, however poorly, their legally entitled First Amendment rights? (unchecked!)

      It would be good for Obama, the AG, Sharpton and J.Jackson Jr. to reiterate the fact that they, while poorly, were within their First Amendment rights - just like those in Selma.

    2. Re:Here's my opinion by Cramer · · Score: 1

      first amendment violation

      **DING** We have a winner. The university may pull out some clause no one has ever read (that isn't 100% legal to begin with) to justify their actions. How much money (and how many lawyer/judge friends) daddy has will dictate how this finally plays out.

      (Yes, they have every legal right to be as racists as they wanna be. Likewise, others have the same right to hate them for it.)

    3. Re:Here's my opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that a legal eviction what I think is happening? Don't they get like 30 day warning or something?

  42. Re:Gee what a shock by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 0

    It's really not midwestern. Geographically it's not in the old Confederacy but culturally it is.

  43. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New moderation: Whenever a Slashdotter brings up Fox News in a thread, it's an automatic (Score:-1, Nerd-raging dead horse)

  44. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by g0bshiTe · · Score: 0

    Why does "give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for life" not apply in the same way as living on the welfare state? If you give someone something you take care of immediate need but ignore that it's helping in the long run?

    I've never understood the logic, in a sense one set of chains has been replaced by another.

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  45. Freedom of speech freedom from consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes, absolutely, we have freedom of speech, and within certain limits you are allowed to say whatever the fuck you want.

    However, be aware that this does not free you from consequences. If you want to say racist things, go ahead, but you will suffer the indignation and general displeasure of those that disagree with you, and this WILL lead to direct and indirect consequences.

    If you don't want to face those consequences, then maybe instead of blindly joining in, you should think before you act.

    I feel no remorse in the loss of an obviously racist bunch from the Greek system. Good riddance.

  46. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So, again, here's you refusing to even dabble in a discussion about the points raised, and simply responding with the classically lazy left ad hominem. So predictable.

    Let's try again. Would you say that, as mentioned above, black culture in the US has a different license to rant and chant racist nonsense without the same consequences as other groups? Yes or no. Do you concede that there is a double standard, or will you just say Fox! Fox! Fox! in order to avoid addressing that unfortunate reality?

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  47. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 3, Insightful

    not all white men are the heads of companies, running Fortune 500 companies, congressional officials, police chiefs, etc.

    But very few non-white, non-men are.

    That's why. It's not racism because when a black person calls you names to hurt your feelings, they also don't have the weight of systemic racial biases behind it. They call you names and that's it.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  48. Re:"Superiority" by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

    While true, you also see those that think that people of certain skin colors are inferior, or their own color is a chosen color.

    Let's face the truth no matter their color racists are dick's.

    If there is one thing on the planet we could all live without it would be the racists of all colors.

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  49. Re:Wow... by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

    Funny how few people refuse to see it that way though.

    It's a shame, it really is.

    If more people thought this way perhaps there would be a greater sense of urgency to get off the gov payroll.

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  50. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You are apparently ignorant of the fact those so called southern democrats left the party and became the southern republicans that we know today, which have as much to do with lincoln as modern democrats have to do with the 60s.

  51. not news for nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ++;

    Just like when the creator of javascript was attacked for opposing homosexual marriage. In the eyes of many, opposing homosexual marriage is seen as a greater sin than the creation of javascript. I don't want a tech site where that is the case.

  52. Re:"Superiority" by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    The weird idea that Celts were limited to Scotland is very modern. The Celts building the wicker men, including both the ones Caesar saw, and the ones he made up, were all from much farther south than Scotland. And the Scots wouldn't cross over from Ireland for another millennia.

    I'll give you a hint, though: a Scot is a type of Celt. A Celt is not a type of Scot. And not necessarily a Scotsman, either.

  53. Their initials say it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SAE = Same Asshole Everywhere

  54. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I kind of doubt the racist blacks (so-called "rap artists", et al) would be welcome on the Ohio University campus either. Did I miss the press release that states otherwise?

  55. Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hey, certain posters here. Hate speech is not covered by the First Amendment. "Hang em from a tree", is emphatically not covered, get off you Free Speech high horse.

    1. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, hate speech is covered by the first amendment. Vocal incitement to violence isn't covered, but no reasonable person would mistake that racist little chant as a credible call for a lynching.

    2. Re:Heh by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      I think at lest 9 very important people disagree with you. Further, unfortunately for you, those 9 people just happen to be the only 9 whose opinions currently matter in these United States.

    3. Re:Heh by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      That's not hate speech--it's incitement to murder.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    4. Re:Heh by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You're wrong. A call for "revengeance against niggers and Jews" on a public gathering was explicitly covered, by SCOTUS, no less. This is more of the same, unless they were directing it at someone in particular.

  56. Wrong argument by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the premise is false then the conclusion is most likely false. Similarly, if the premise is exclusionary then the conclusion will also be exclusionary. I do realize that "white males" are the favorite punching bag for claims of discrimination, but the point is that discrimination is everywhere and employed by all sorts of people. Women hating on men, blacks hating on whites, Christians hating on Muslims, Muslims hating on non-Muslims, etc.. etc..

    The problem is exacerbated by media who keeps issues in the spotlights, occasionally even inventing them. This is one of many ways that the powerful remain in power.. by making us bicker with each other.

    If you doubt that discrimination is universal then visit a place like Saudi Arabia carrying a Bible and wearing a cross. Go to Harlem, Detroit, Compton, etc.. if you are white. Tell just about anyone that you are Jewish if you are. That we make a big deal of these differences 2,500 years after we should know better is a different issue (referring to Plato's "The Republic").

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Wrong argument by kervin · · Score: 1

      but the point is that discrimination is everywhere and employed by all sorts of people.

      And my point is that discrimination should be deplored no matter who it's coming from. I never thought "intolerant white people" when watching the video. I'm pretty sure many of us who thought the video is deplorable simply thought "intolerant people".

      Why assume the actions are being criticized because the perpetrators are white?

    2. Re:Wrong argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are lots of white jews wandering around Harlem every day.
      I'd move there without any hesitation, there's a great community thing going on up there.

      I'm guessing you've never actually been to Compton, Detroit, or NYC and are talking out of your ass based on preconceived impressions. Gee, what does that remind you of?

    3. Re:Wrong argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Compton is mostly Hispanic these days and not a danger if your white. Sure, there are some sketchy areas, but overall the city is not what it used to be. In fact, the Hispanic gangs have been known to target blacks, even non-gang blacks; they simply don't want them living in Compton.

      Compton started out mostly white, become mostly black after WW2, and shifted to mostly Hispanic during the last decade. This is the trend in the southern part of Los Angeles. Same thing in Watts, which is now about 80% Hispanic. Blacks have largely dispersed to other parts of the city or surrounding communities. Many blacks have moved up the economic ladder and are living in more affluent neighborhoods.

  57. Is this a reading test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [...]that appeared to show members of the members Sigma Alpha Epsilon[...]
    [...]which purports to show students to show students engaging in[...]

    Is this a reading test or an eye test? I passed with double vision.

    I can remember when editors really edited; men were real men; and girls on the internet were all FBI agents. Now, apparently, editors are incompetent, and the FBI is the internet.

  58. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    because job training programs cost money and are SOSHALISM

  59. Hey, lovely little slashdot racists by whitroth · · Score: 2

    Just from what's in the another post I read, I'd say that they were not "merely" racist, but threatening. I mean, that is the South, home to the KKK that murdered a hell of a lot for the "crime" of being black. That makes them dangerous.

    And, of course, it's the kind of crap I'd expect from the majority of Greeks - classiism, racism, you-have-to-be-worth-money-to-get-in.... They've never had much of a rep beyond party, drinking, etc, and this goes back to my first time in college, long before most of you were born.

    I see no reason to make Greeks part of the official college landscape. Most of 'em have nothing to do with actual learning... which is, allegedly, what you're paying that money for.

                          mark

    1. Re:Hey, lovely little slashdot racists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #NotAllInbredBigots

    2. Re:Hey, lovely little slashdot racists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've yet to see one comment posted here that agrees with the racist sentiment expressed in the video. So far I can tell, there's not a singe comment that expresses approval for lynching and the SAE policy of excluding African Americans from membership. Could you provide a link to one, or are you in the habit of casually smearing a bunch of people you don't know as being racists based on no evidence? You seem quite bigoted.

    3. Re:Hey, lovely little slashdot racists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      KKK was very prominent in the North, particularly Illinois. Learn your history before you look down your nose.

    4. Re:Hey, lovely little slashdot racists by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      It is only threatening if it was being directed towards an actual individual or group. In other words, I could be stupid and repeat their words now and I would not be threatening anyone. But if you, whitroth, were black and I were to make it clear that I was directing my words to you or suggesting that others take this action against you, then that could be considered threatening.

      Yes, sometimes stupid people being stupid is nothing more than stupid people being stupid and sometimes it is more.

    5. Re:Hey, lovely little slashdot racists by MuleSkinnerOkie · · Score: 1

      I mean, that is the South, home to the KKK

      Historically a bit inaccurate. Oklahoma is not in "the South" (not that I blame you. People can never decide how to categorize us, so they usually end up doing it based on argumentative convenience). Oklahoma was not a state during the Civil War, and contained very few "white" people at the time. The eastern half of the state is heavily Native and African American, and even petitioned to join the union as a "colored" state at the beginning of the 20th Century. Also, the KKK is not unknown in the state, but was rarely a big player. It has been much more active in Indiana (a "midwestern" state), than in Oklahoma.

    6. Re:Hey, lovely little slashdot racists by MuleSkinnerOkie · · Score: 1

      I mean, that is the South, home to the KKK

      Historically a bit inaccurate. Oklahoma is not in "the South"

      ...and now it turns out that everyone identified in that video (so far at least) actually hails from Texas. Dallas, to be specific.

  60. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tl;dr

    Bennett? Is that you?

  61. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Dutchmaan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you use terms like "lazy left" I certainly don't. But as for your argument. it might be more socially accepted for blacks to spout racist nonsense, but I'm willing to bargain that they are subject to more racism than whites are on a daily basis. Would you agree..? Yes or No. or are you just going to chant "lazy left" again.

  62. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

    Also, don't forget "start a fire for a man, keep him warm for the night. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life!"

  63. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

    Why are you taking offense?! He didn't say anything negative about Fox did he?

  64. Re:"Superiority" by halivar · · Score: 1

    Uh, yeah, I know, I was k... err... it was a j... umm... I gotta go.

  65. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by ScentCone · · Score: 0

    How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you use terms like "lazy left"

    Because in my experience, that sort of lazy ad hominem is most frequently practiced by people on the left of the political spectrum. The reflexive Fox! Fox! Fox! is a classic example.

    I'm willing to bargain that they are subject to more racism than whites are on a daily basis

    Depends on the location and the people involved. In some cases, no - absolutely not the case. But in places where it's true, videos of white idiots chanting something racist are universally held up to ridicule and condemnation in the media (including on Fox! Fox! Fox!), whereas the Sharptons of the world who go out of their way to foment that sort of crap going the other direction are rewarded with high-paying media jobs, lots of slack on their huge tax evasion, etc.

    Racist rants should be universally held up for shame, but the media - especially the proudly left-leaning outlets - are absolutely duplicitous on that subject.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  66. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Jon_S · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Right. Because chanting "you can hang them from a tree" is more or less equivalent to calling a white person a cracker.

    Note, the above is sarcasm, which usually doesn't come through on the internet.

  67. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Why are you taking offense?! He didn't say anything negative about Fox did he?

    I'm not taking offense, I'm making an observation about yet another person's lazy deflection and ad hominem rhetoric used to avoid addressing the actual issues being raised.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  68. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nobody in my family was ever property

    This also holds true for the vast majority of "African Americans."

  69. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

    "I'm making an observation about yet another person's lazy deflection and ad hominem rhetoric used to avoid addressing the actual issues being raised." i.e. taking offense.

  70. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    This is also a university, not society at large. As such there can be different rules on speech. A black fraternity doing the same thing would not get away with it on any campus.

  71. Actually, they were right.... by mark-t · · Score: 5, Funny

    They vowed that African-Americans will "never" be allowed to join the campus chapter, and they stayed true to that vow by getting the chapter closed down.

    Not that for a second I condone such attittudes, just saying that from a purely literalist standpoint, they certainly weren't lying.

    1. Re:Actually, they were right.... by MuleSkinnerOkie · · Score: 1

      They vowed that African-Americans will "never" be allowed to join the campus chapter, and they stayed true to that vow by getting the chapter closed down.

      Unless the chapter gets reopened as a primarily African-American chapter. Easy for me to come up with ideas for others to implement, but if it were me running that frat national, that would be my goal. The Schadenfreude Sunday isn't complete until you put the cherry on top.

    2. Re:Actually, they were right.... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Then by definition, that would not be the same chapter... it would be a new chapter that is reusing the old name.

    3. Re:Actually, they were right.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical white answer. You just can't accept the loss, man. Are you IRL Rush Limbaugh by any chance?

  72. predictable by Demonix · · Score: 1

    And this is news for nerds...how? Isn't there an SJW blog this could be posted to instead?

    --
    when all is said and done, all a man has left are his blades and his honor.
  73. Re:"Superiority" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not aware of other races - in this country - that discriminate because they believe they're "superior"

    That would be an outlandish claim that not many people would take seriously. It's definitely not supported by any recorded human history. Other races get upset about whites/asians/jews claiming superiority because there's quite possibly some truth to it.

  74. This behavior... is contrary to all our values. by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    Um. Apparently not.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  75. Re:Wow... by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Careful, facts are tricky things...

    People get rather testy when you challenge them with the actual facts....

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  76. Initiations by Livius · · Score: 1

    The problem is that part of the way these sorts of organizations create their fake sense of community is by engaging recruits in something anti-social, so as to sever bonds with the larger community and leave them with only their new group as a place that will accept them. Generally this is done symbolically or at worst by a frivolous crime like trespass or graffiti-writing.

    A legitimate question is whether these people were expressing their own political views (which is nonetheless their right) or merely participating in what is more or less a theatrical production. It's still offensive and demonstrating poor judgment, but only so much should be read into it.

    Of course, if a fraternity is closed - no big loss.

  77. The scariest part... by mi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The scariest part of this, to me, is the sheer number of people, who chose to post here anonymously...

    Clearly, the fear of being prosecuted for thought-crimes is wide-spread... Among Whites.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:The scariest part... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I rarely post, and have no account.
      But seriously, I may have to make one just to keep your BS in check. ...

      Really? That's the scariest part? That people post AC?
      Not the shocking number of people who choose to defend the racists, to excuse their behavior,
      but the fact they choose to do so without revealing their identity ?

      Your priorities are messed up.
      But I do appreciate you having the temerity to post your racist and/or ignorant garbage under your own name.

      You don't seem to be aware of the difference between Commercial and Personal Driver's Licenses. Fun fact: In most states you have 4 basic flavors: A, B, C, and M. A is the basic personal driver's license, B is a restricted license, C is commercial, and M is motorcycle, though some states make M just a stamp or endorsement added to the A.

      Heck, you claim to be from Russia, yet you don't even seem to know that Russia has not practiced Communism for almost 100 years, not since the death of Lenin. Stalinism, and every "Communist" leader who came after, practiced Totalitarianism, which is not the same thing. Gorbachev came the closest (in my estimation) to being a reformer, to trying to get back to actual Communism. And even when the coup came, he didn't protest that loudly, instead retreating into private life. You could even look at his reforms as being first steps towards making a coup possible.

      When people talk about gender issues or race, you usually deny that bigotry exists, or somehow try to frame it like white men have it the worst off. Seriously, you come off like any generic "Men's Rights Activist".....as if white males are in any need of special protections.

      You concern troll environment threads, asking "can someone explain to me" .... but ignore any actual information given, and instead just re-iterate whatever nonsense and misinformation you're spreading.

      you think libertarianism is a valid political construct, and cite Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein's books as your proof. But news flash: those are stories. The characters are all wearing plot armor. Nothing bad ever happens to them because that's how the author wrote the books.

      the overwhelming majority of your posts are modded -1 or 0, for Trolling.
      your karma is nonexistent.
      as is your intellect.

    2. Re:The scariest part... by mi · · Score: 1

      That's the scariest part? That people post AC?

      No, that people post AC in general is not scary — that's perfectly normal for /. and elsewhere.

      What is scary is that unusually more people chose to post anonymously on this particular subject. "Cowards on race"...

      the overwhelming majority of your posts are modded -1 or 0, for Trolling. your karma is nonexistent. as is your intellect.

      I see, that you find my ideas intriguing. Would you like to subscribe to my newsletter?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  78. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Everybody has slaves in their ancestry.

    Very very few have met any former slaves, Perhaps a very old African American met a very old former slave long ago.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  79. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MOD this up!

    Where the hell are my MOD POINTS... Long but worth the time to read...

  80. Re:Gee what a shock by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Hey, Below the Mason Dixon Line.. Southern state...

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  81. "If O.U. students are involved..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "If O.U. students are involved, this behavior will not be tolerated"

    But if they aren't, then it's ok?

    1. Re:"If O.U. students are involved..." by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Then it's someone else's problem.

      When my kid breaks your window playing baseball you come and talk to me. When some other kid does you don't. That's all pretty fucking basic.

    2. Re:"If O.U. students are involved..." by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Obviously you don't understand modern society. If someone that looks vaguely similar to your pale-skinned child breaks my window, i come talk to you and every other parent of pale-skinned children. However, I my darker-skinned child breaks your window, you don't come to me; you go talk the other parents of pale-skinned children and assess why you collectively pushed my child into that behavior.

  82. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Black racism is "socially accepted." Some drunk white dude says the N word under his breath, and the AG, President, race-baiting Sharpton and Jackson shows up, and the entire white population is put in the same bucket as a drunk frat boy.

    Blacks calling whites crackers, making fun of them in rap music, ostracizing and subjecting whites to crime in "their" neighborhoods and constantly falsely accusing whites as being racists and "the man" and keeping them down,etc.

    Dude, black fatigue. Im sick of it. And I'm sick of the horrible near totality of racism blacks have for whites and nobody calls them on it. Black racism and black racketeering to milk the system AND keep the majority of blacks on the modern welfare plantation is more of a policy of those the blacks vote for and their own broken fatherless homes and broken crime-ridden graffiti-ridden communities than anything whites do.

    Blacks kill more blacks by far than whites.

    You're a fool.

    When any black person can make a phone call to the Police, give them a _description_ of a generic white person, and put innocent white lives at risk, talk me to death about the social acceptance of black racism. When enough blacks are in positions of management to deny white people opportunities because they feel that for arbitrary reasons, they just don't fit in, talk me to death about the social acceptance of black racism. When white people feel compelled to alter their natural appearance chemically or otherwise to "appear acceptable" or otherwise "make it in a corporate America", talk me to death about the acceptance of black racism.

    The bottom line is despite supposedly being "equal" and ENTITLED TO "equal treatment under the law" SO SAYETH the CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES, black survival in America is STILL largely dependent upon the comfort level whites have with them. While many whites today may not be the racists that their ancestors living A MERE GENERATION AGO were (and make no mistake there remain plenty of whites who ARE EVERY BIT the racists their ancestors were), THIS ESSENTIAL FACT is as true today as it was during SLAVERY.

    >>>>Blacks kill more blacks by far than whites.

    To assert that blacks kill more blacks by far than whites is meaningless and stupid due to the fact that people commit crimes where they LIVE. White people kill more of each other by far than blacks kill whites... and in China, Chinese people kill more of each other by far than whites OR blacks kill Chinese. That's the easy observation made by people who ride the short bus and watch Faux News. They're also typically the same people who claim to want a small government with a BIG MILITARY empowered to make laws governing the _social_ behavior of everyone else.

    I'll say this, and say it daring anyone to challenge it:

    Black people in America are amongst THE MOST PEACEFUL PEOPLE within its borders.

    How can I say that? Because if white people were subjected to a TINY FRACTION of the bullsh*t they've subjected black people to OVER HUNDREDS OF YEARS AND CONTINUING TO THIS VERY DAY, they'd have burned this country to the ground a long time ago. America itself was essentially founded over a TAX DISPUTE, just imagine if the English had been forcing the colonists to work from sun-up to sun-down for free while denying them their BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS?

    YET AND STILL, despite the slight, the wrong, or the indignity, BLACK PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PEACEFUL PROTEST. Al Sharpton comes to your town to _DISCUSS_ HIS GRIEVANCES. Black people are ALWAYS talking about DEMONSTRATING PEACEFULLY... and WHY NOT? IN AMERICA, BLACK PEOPLE IMPORTED THE CONCEPT OF PEACEFUL PROTEST. They looked to Ghandi and thought: GREAT IDEA! In contrast, what happens when white people feel slighted? THEY ARE USUALLY THE FIRST TO REACH FOR THEIR GUNS, to SING THE PRAISES OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT, and to threaten violence against this government for supposedly infringing upon their freedom (mainly to be assh*les to everyon

  83. Re:Gee what a shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, it isn't. Never has been.

  84. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because sometimes teaching everyone to fish makes it really hard to fish.

  85. Subsidies destroy liberties (My two cents...) by mi · · Score: 1

    Now, I have no problem with the university choosing not to support a racist organization

    Right there is an example, ladies and gentlemen, of how subsidies destroy freedom.

    While it is hard to disagree with pla above, consider the following hypothetical example... Everybody is taxed at 100% — with everything they need available to them for "free" in exchange. You can not afford anything on your own, but you don't need to — because everything you could possibly want is provided to you.

    Suppose, for the sake of argument, such Communist ideal is achievable in principle... Aren't you now "supported" in everything you receive? And can the government not "choose not to support" you because of your racism or any other thought-crimes?

    Back to fraternities — why are they supported by colleges to begin with? Why can't students save on tuition, if they don't want to join such a group? One can be forgiven for suspecting, colleges want to hook them on subsidies so as to be able to control them later...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  86. In defense of fraternities by quietwalker · · Score: 1

    Probably not a popular stance right now, but I break it out every time I see one of these sorts of issues popup.

    Statistically - at least when I did a decade plus search for rape convictions after the UVA scandal - it's much more dangerous to be in a dorm room or student apartment than in a fraternity house or participate in a fraternity event. The same appears to be true for assault. It's harder to come up with numbers for alcohol poisoning and death; those are rarely disclosed except in the context of a party held by an organization, be it fraternity, sports team, or other.

    That is, fraternities have a lower incident rate than the norm. These acts happen in fraternties less often than in the general student body. Not that they don't happen, but rather, that they happen less. This is not just raw numbers either, but even per-capita, and still many orders of magnitude different.

    I'm guessing the same goes for racism, but I have no way to get numbers on that.

    Now a days, when the threat of suspension, dissolution, or expulsion hangs over their heads for activities that would result in little more than an eye roll and a head shake if a non-organization member did it, these greek orgs are especially careful. There's their parent organization - made up of graduate members - telling them what to do or be penalized, fined, or dissolved. There's the greek council, watching everything they do, ready to cut an org out as soon as there's even the merest hint of scandal, to save themselves. There's over 40 years of tv shows and movies continually painting fraternities as the bad guys, the despicable and snooty handsome jock rich kids for our hero underdogs to fight, so they're constantly fighting an uphill battle.

    That's why the parent organization dissolved that chapter even before names came out. It's zero tolerance in an apparent fight to survive.

    Those of you who have not actually tried to examine fraternities, for good or ill, and only accept what talking heads state as truth won't actually realize that they're so strictly internally policed.

    In fact, the only reason we're calling it a 'scandal' and it appears in the public eye is because an organization makes up a larger target than an individual. The 2006 Duke rape case was nothing, when it was a bunch of guys in a privately rented house, but when they found out that it was 'the entire duke lacrosse team had gang-raped a minority!' then it was made high-profile and public.

    Make sure to treat each event like this like you should every other piece of information that comes at you. Reserve judgement, investigate, educate yourself on the context, and try not to be a bigot and generalize. These chumps might be racist jacklegs, but they're a small percentage.

  87. Evolution at work ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... at Sigma Alpha Epsilon at University of Oklahoma.

    You bitches are out.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  88. Freedom of speech by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    Maybe you should read what the constitution actually says. "Congress shall make no law..."

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  89. Re:Gee what a shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FFS, could you be any more historically illiterate? Seriously, just go look up the Mason-Dixon Line on Wikipedia and also the Missouri Compromise Line to see just how ignorant your statement is.

  90. "thought-crimes" by Hartree · · Score: 3

    On thing is for certain: The people in the video are quite safe from charges of thought crime.

    I think we can safely say there was damn little intelligent thought happening there.

  91. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nobody in my family was ever property

    This also holds true for the vast majority of "African Americans."

    If they are allowed to bring ancestry and long dead relative then anyone can. Every race, ethnicity or culture was at one time enslaved by a other race, ethnicity or culture. This is true for every human being. Why does only niggers make a big deal out of it?

  92. Also with regards to state schools by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

    Clubs are held to a higher standard. The general student body can get away with a whole lot. You can go and have a racist rant out in public every day and so long as you aren't disruptive, threatening, etc then they can't do anything, they have to let you stay and if a teacher were to retaliate grade wise they could get in trouble. However clubs, like frats, have additional rules imposed on them if they wish to remain school recognized clubs. The school doesn't have to allow them, so they can choose what additional restrictions they face.

    Now you are free to have a club not recognized by the campus, but then you won't be able to use campus facilities, participate in official campus events, and so on.

  93. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right. Because chanting "you can hang them from a tree" is more or less equivalent to calling a white person a cracker.

    Note, the above is sarcasm, which usually doesn't come through on the internet.

    No, "you can hang them from a tree" would be closer to "kill that cracker" which is often heard. And calling a person a cracker would be equivalent to calling one a nigger. Both of which are common if you venture out of your safe racially homogeneous social circle. eg; read internet post from known niggers and you will see they are just as racist as whites.

    Until peoples are actually hanged from a tree because of their race, racism is not real and only idiots make a big deal out of it. Racism is about killing peoples, not hurting feeling. Fuck off.

  94. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Kill the white people; we gonna make them hurt; kill the white
    people; but buy my record first; ha, ha, ha"; "Kill d'White People";
    -Apache, Apache Ain't Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.

    "Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long.
    . the white man is the devil. the CRIPS and Bloods are
    soldiers I'm recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this
    white genetic mutant. let's go and kill some rednecks.
    Menace Clan ain't afraid. I got the 380; the homies think I'm
    crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill
    whitey all night long. a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck
    this rap shit, nigga, I'm gonna blast. I beat a white boy to
    the motherfucking ground"; "Kill Whitey"; -Menace Clan, Da Hood,
    1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, subsidiaries of what was
    called Thorn EMI and now is called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

    "Devils fear this brand new shit. I bleed them
    next time I see them. I prey on these devils. look what
    it has come to; who you gonna run to when we get to mobbing.
    filling his body up with lead, yah; cracker in my way; slitting, slit
    his throat; watch his body shake; watch his body shake; that's how we
    do it in the motherfucking [San Francisco] Bay. Sitting on the
    dock of the dirty with my AK"; "Heat-featuring Jet and Spice1"; -
    Paris, Unleashed, 1998, Unleashed Records, Whirling Records.

    "These devils make me sick; I love to fill them full of
    holes; kill them all in the daytime, broad motherfucking daylight; 12
    o'clock, grab the Glock; why wait for night"; "Sweatin Bullets"; -
    Brand Nubian, Everything Is Everything, 1994, Elektra Entertainment,
    Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.

    "A fight, a fight, a nigger and a white, if the nigger
    don't win then we all jump in. smoking all [of] America's white
    boys"; -"A Fight"; Apache, Apache Ain't Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music,
    Time Warner, USA.

    "I kill a devil right now. I say kill whitey all
    nightey long. I stabbed a fucking Jew with a steeple. I
    would kill a cracker for nothing, just for the fuck of it.
    Menace Clan kill a cracker; jack 'em even quicker. catch that
    devil slipping; blow his fucking brains out"; "Fuck a Record Deal";
    - Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records,
    subsidiaries of Thorn EMI; called The EMI Group since 1997, United
    Kingdom.

    "Now I'm black but black people trip 'cause white people
    like me; white people like me I but don't like them. I don't
    hate whites, I just gotta death wish for motherfuckers that ain't
    right"; -"Race War"; Ice-T, Home Invasion, 1993, Priority Records,
    Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

    "To all my Universal Soldier's: stay at attention while
    I strategize an invasion; the mission be assassination, snipers
    hitting Caucasians with semi-automatic shots heard around the world;
    my plot is to control the globe and hold the world hostage.
    see, I got a war plan more deadlier than Hitler. lyrical
    specialist, underworld terrorist. keep the unity thick like
    mud. I pulling out gats , launching deadly attacks"; -"Blood
    for Blood"; Killarmy, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997, Wu-Tang
    Records, Priority Records, The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

    "Lead to the head of you devils"; "Lick Dem
    Muthaphuckas-Remix"; -Brand Nubian, Everything Is Everything, 1994,
    Elektra Entertainment, Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.

    "This will all be over in '99, so, niggas, give devils
    the crime; gonna be more devils dying"; -"No Surrender"; Bone Thugs-
    N-Harmony, Creepin on ah Come Up, 1994, Ruthless Records, Epic
    Records, Sony Music Entertainment, Sony, Japan.

    "Won't be satisfied until the devils-I see them all
    dead. my brother is sending me more guns from down South.
    pale face. it's all about brothers rising up, wising up, sizing
    up our situation. you be fucking with my turf when you be
    fucking with my race; now face your maker and ta

  95. Campus Organization by kervin · · Score: 1

    When they say it, it's art. When anyone else says the exact same thing, it's a hate crime.

    Firstly, very few people are seriously framing this as a crime. Much less a hate-crime. This is a strawman, pure and simple.

    Secondly, a lot of the outrage is from the fact that this is a campus related organization. The idea is that these students should be held to a higher standard than "gansta rappers".

  96. What charges were filed? by kervin · · Score: 1

    No. We need to collectively get a fucking grip, and move on. Stupid kids doing stupid things.

    Maybe we should wait for the charges to be filed before making this argument. As for expulsion, this will depend on the university's bylaws and code of conduct. I expect these will be reviewed.

    Kids of all races get expelled for much less, I'm sure.

    1. Re:What charges were filed? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Were they on a University bus? Wearing a university identifying t-shirt? Were their educational affiliations part of the song? Do university rules apply if they are in another city, visiting their mother, or any other myriad none of university's fucking business activities?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  97. Re:SAE OK disowned by own national SAE board, as w by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    In other news, strictly black-only frats and sororities have all also been disbanded for being racially exclusive.

    Probably; one opinion piece and a news article indicate that such organizations don't exist.

  98. What about anti-white rap recordings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about anti-white rap recordings?
    Are they going to close the recording studios and put these filthy niggers pseudo-singers in jail?

  99. Re: Wow... by zarthrag · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So... what's your view on the Voting Rights Act being recently gutted and the overnight movement towards voter suppression in several republican states?

    Separately, I don't think either party is (inherently) racist. I think they simply pander to different socio-economic demographics. However, in certain sections of the country, I do think that republicans hang a big, loud "you're not welcome here" sign for anyone they don't see as a potential constituent.

    --
    Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
  100. that is a whole lot of typing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just to try to whitewash you won blatant bigotry with a facade of "it's everyone else but me and my klan". you really shouldn't try so hard to insult everyone else, boy.

  101. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Cederic · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Fuck you and your bigoted attitude.

    Some cunt uses racist language at me, he's getting called on it, and I don't give a flying fuck what colour his skin is.

    Some sexist arsehole discriminates against me based on their perception of my gender, same fucking thing.

    I haven't enslaved anybody. I haven't refused to promote anybody. I haven't been magically given a fucking ferrari and a penthouse full of hookers. I haven't had some weird fucked up privilege that everybody seems to think they deserve.

    So fuck you and fuck the other bigots. Don't be a racist cunt, whatever fucking colour you are.

  102. Re:Gee what a shock by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 1

    The place is redneck as fuck and only wishes it could be Texas. Yes, yes it is.

  103. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Cederic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When white people feel compelled to alter their natural appearance chemically or otherwise to "appear acceptable" or otherwise "make it in a corporate America", talk me to death about the acceptance of black racism.

    Clearly you know fuck all about being white then. You think I _want_ to wear this fucking suit, have this fucking haircut? Have you seen the shit people go through if they have a tattoo? Do you realise that every fucking woman in Manchester wears fake tan because otherwise they're too fucking white?

    make no mistake there remain plenty of whites who ARE EVERY BIT the racists their ancestors were

    Sadly this is true. Equally sad is how fucking racist so many non-white Amercians are too. Bigotry does not excuse bigotry.

    Black people in America are amongst THE MOST PEACEFUL PEOPLE within its borders.

    Crime statistics do not agree with you, even after adjusting for location.

    Adjusting for wealth, possibly, and skin colour is not the determining factor, but the correlation is absolutely fucking there.

    , just imagine if the English had been forcing the colonists to work from sun-up to sun-down for free while denying them their BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS?

    So who has made you, your siblings, your parents or your friends work from sun-up to sun-down for free, with or without basic human rights? Just that, my ancestors were enslaved by the Romans, and then by the Vikings, and then by Barbary Pirates, and I'm not using any of that as an excuse for racism or bigotry.

    BLACK PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PEACEFUL PROTEST

    You seem to be entirely disregarding entire subcultures across America. See a post above for some example song lyrics that don't seem to gel with your hypothesis.

    is it black people that have a history of hanging white people by their necks from trees or white people who have a history of hanging black people by their necks from trees?

    Look you racist fuck, I haven't hung anybody from a tree. Stop stereotyping based on race you bigoted twat.

    (Apply that response to your other inane unnecessary bullshit examples - and do try not to pretend that this is all one-way traffic)

    Black people have endured and continue to endure all of this NONSENSE and yet at their angriest, they typically want to MARCH about it. No talk about the 2nd amendment, NO talk about shooting their oppressors in the name of FREEDOM. No news-er-uh propaganda channel dedicated to spurring them on..

    I fail miserably to see how this excuses racism. You are not making a valid point. You are not justifying the bigoted bullshit you're spouting.

    The majority of people using social programs? White people. There are far more whites in the trailer park using food stamps than blacks in the ghetto, and far more trailer parks than ghettos.

    There are far more white people than black people in America, it's hardly surprising that there are more of them in a given social strata.

    Do the same comparison on a percentage population basis by race, see if you get the same results.

    Even then, don't be using this to justify racism. Shit, a lot of deprived black neighbourhoods consider an attempt to get educated and break the cycle of poverty a betrayal and something to mock. Rail against that primitive attitude if you want to do something useful.

    The primary beneficiary of affirmative action programs? White women. White women have benefitted far more from "the system" than all other minorities put together.

    Affirmative action is discrimination and should be banned. I fucking hate it, and if you think white women gain the most from it, trust me, white men lose the fucking most from it. It's actually legal to discriminate against white men and you think black people have the problems?!

    Black racism? THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? Really? Seriously? Kill yourself.

    No. I'd rather kill the racist. But save me the bother, you live in a country with a high incidence of self-inflicted firearm injuries, be my guest.

  104. Re: Wow... by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    African Americans routinely vote well over 90 percent Democratic for fear that Republicans will cut their government benefits and welfare programs.

    Interesting historical facts which I accept on face value, but then you fuck it up by claiming you can read the minds of blacks.

    Before LBJ's Great Society welfare programs, the black illegitimacy rate was as low as 23 percent, but now it has more than tripled to 72 percent.

    My first child, now 35, was technically illegitimate. I ask you the same question I asked my parents in 1979 - Why is that a problem?

    Every political party has its racists.

    You should have stopped there, the rest of your post is just a twisted apology for your own political party.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  105. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

    No, but you are the beneficiary of systemic racism, sexism and depending if you're openly queer or not, homo and/or transphobia.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  106. I dont agree with these morons, but... by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    Whilst I dont agree with the sentiment of these morons...There are also fraternities that happily publicise themseves as being for African Americans only, yet somehow no-one seems at all bothered by their existence.

    These clowns saying black people will never join their frat is racist, but pretty much just the same shoe on the other foot.

    Racism won't ever go away until we end the whole idea that any organisation can legally and more importantly, morally exist and only cater to one race (so by extension exclude others). The perceived relative social status of any race is should not ever trump racism.

    Until we change our social values to make it unacceptable for single-race organsations to exist at all (no matter how well-intended they are, the racial divide is being constaly reinforced by their very existence and racism won't ever be allowed to go away.

  107. "9 second clip" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is wrong with this picture?

    What's wrong is that judgment is being passed on a nine freakin' second video clip. Without context.

    If that's reasonable grounds for judgment, then Billie Holiday must have been Grand Wizard of the Klan.

  108. Media professional trolling on grand scale by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    Media loves highlighting incidents of racism because they know like bugs to porch lights everyone rewards them by taking the bait.

    Good plane crashes, train crashes, religious controversy, social controversy and fear... they know everyone's buttons and they constantly push them without regard for the aggregate consequences.

    Some jackass made some loopy video .. so fucking what? Why is anyone bothering to report this? A lot of truly fucked up things happen all the time but you can count on mass media to milk bullshit for every last viewer its worth.

    1. Re:Media professional trolling on grand scale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you in one way, but the reason it is still news is the reason that some people find it "shocking" - they refuse to admit that old fashioned racism is still alive in the country, and it makes them uncomfortable. Those are also the same people that would not want it covered.

  109. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Cederic · · Score: 2

    Systemic racism? That'll be why every company I work for prefers to employ people from the Indian subcontinent.

    Systemic sexism? It's legal in this country to discriminate against men, the courts give men harsher sentences for the same crimes, school teachers give boys lower marks for the same work, men die younger, men work longer hours, the government spends less on male healthcare.. you want me to fucking continue or are you going to start bleating about this mythical 'male privilege' that allegedly exists?

      As someone that has been bullied for being perceived as 'queer' and mocked for being trans, I can confirm that I've never seen anybody penalised by public bodies, employers or any of my friends for being anything other than straight.

    So no, I haven't been the beneficiary. I've grown up in a working class family wearing second hand clothes as a constant stranger due to moving around too often, so don't be giving me any fucking privilege or systemic benefit bullshit.

  110. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First, your counterfactual points about how history might be presented if it were, in fact, different - are pure speculation on your part. They're not evidence of anyone's malice, except in your own imagination.

    Second, I think it's unquestionable that there are racists in the Republican party, and a substantial part of the modern Republican party views them as an important part of its key demographic and actively targets them with propaganda. I'm not denying your point, such as it is, that Democrats can be just as racist, but there simply is no clear "good guys bad guys" story to be told unless you're willing to massively misrepresent the facts.

  111. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Republican party worked to eliminate slavery, although it was often a secondary goal to maintain the union during the civil war.
    The Emancipation Proclamation was a threat to the states in rebellion. Lincoln initially said he was open to compromises that allowed slavery in states where it existed. The abolitionists were mostly New Englanders.

    It's pretty ludicrous to portray the passing of the Civil Rights acts under President Johnson as blatant vote buying. It ended up eviscerating the Democratic party of its southern racists as the Republican party under the Southern Strategy in order to convince the white racists to become Republican. The result is that the Republican stronghold is now the Southern region and Southwest. To pretend it was something other than a plan to capitalize on racism as you do is simply ludicrous. It's the Republicans that have been busy trying to undo the Civil Rights Acts. It's the Republicans who are trying to make it harder for Black citizens to vote by pretending that illegal voting exists.

    As for the rest of your rant, affirmative action is based on the theory that the playing field isn't level. There's more than enough evidence of that. And to posture that Martin Luther King was not in favor of fixing the problems of poverty and racism ignores his speeches and what he was working on when he was killed.

  112. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    "I'm making an observation about yet another person's lazy deflection and ad hominem rhetoric used to avoid addressing the actual issues being raised." i.e. taking offense.

    What? You consider pointing out the truth to be "taking offense?" I supposed it's possible you may have your own personal feelings wounded by talking about the substance of the matter, but it's more likely you're using all of your projected umbrage to continue, again, to avoid actually talking about the matter at hand. Aren't you even a little embarassed?

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  113. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you start allowing for instances of "acceptable racism", you're not a serious person who wants to see it removed from society.

  114. Re:SAE OK disowned by own national SAE board, as w by ScentCone · · Score: 1
    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  115. Re:Gee what a shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, it never has been a culturally Confederate. I don't think you actually are familiar with the terms you're using. Please consult a history book. Perhaps, when you move on to 9th grade, you'll cover more of that period of American history in detail.

  116. Re: Wow... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Why is that a problem?

    Because children raised by single parents or by parents that have to spread their attention across multiple households where they've fathered multiple children are at a huge disadvantage. They are far more likely to wind up neglecting school, falling into troublesome social circles, and becoming caught up in crime and substance abuse. Don't pretend for a second that you don't understand that reality.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  117. Re:Gee what a shock by painandgreed · · Score: 1

    It's really not midwestern. Geographically it's not in the old Confederacy but culturally it is.

    Actually, it is in the old Confederacy. the South offered a deal to the indians to join their side and the last Confederate general to surrender was the Cherokee chief Stand Watie who was leading a Cherokee force.

  118. You can censor printed words but not thoughts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm a white guy.

    I wasn't bothered by black people when I was a kid, and I used to hang out and smoke
    pot with a couple of black guys who were buddies. We never once thought about race,
    only about what we could do to have fun.

    As the years passed, I was robbed by blacks four different times and mugged by blacks once.
    These events changed how I view black people I don't already know. If you don't like that
    it's tough shit for you. If you want to try to repress my opinions, you'd better be ready for a disappointment,
    because I think what I think now based on life experience. I avoid blacks now, because life experience
    has taught me this is a good strategy for avoiding problems. I know that all blacks are not muggers or thieves,
    but I also know that if I avoid all of them I WILL avoid the subset of blacks who ARE muggers or thieves.
    Some call that prejudice, I call it foreknowledge and intelligent strategy. If you don't like that, that's YOUR
    problem.

    As an aside, I detest fraternities and I detest the entire Greek system in general, but that has more to
    do with me detesting cliques than anything else.

    1. Re:You can censor printed words but not thoughts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if you lived in a poor white community, you'd be robbed by white people. Would that make you happier?

  119. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Fwipp · · Score: 1

    "Woe is me, I, a white man, have to wear a suit and have a dumb haircut."

    Clearly it is white people who are the real victims here.

  120. Re:Gee what a shock by painandgreed · · Score: 1

    It's really not midwestern. Geographically it's not in the old Confederacy but culturally it is.

    Sorry to do two different posts, but I'd rather not reply to an AC who is just trolling.

    It really depends on who you ask and in what context you are talking about. Growing up in OK, we called ourself the "Midwest" which colloquially meant the great plains states. That a bunch of Eastern Yankees like Indiana would call themselves midwesterners really threw me for a long time. Still, depending who and how the nation of states is divided up, they are in many cases, and OK is part of the South. The US Census puts OK in the South. Others put it in the South West, Midwest, Great Plains, or some other grouping, usually using South.

  121. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

    Right on.

    Also:

    There's more white people on welfare than there are black people alive. Yet when people talk about welfare queens and lazy fucks and say that's the reason we need to cut back on welfare, they point to black people. Then these anti-welfare guys get elected, make cuts, and their own constituency suffers because guess what? Most people on welfare are in conservative areas. Most people on welfare are white, and even in percentage terms, blacks beat them by just a couple percentage points.

  122. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    Yup, those fools in Norman sure did have the weight of the entire system behind them!

  123. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Fwipp · · Score: 1

    As another queer trans white person - you're totally and completely wrong.

    I'm not sure how you think that your anecdotal experience with lack of discrimination for being queer invalidates centuries of racism and oppression, but you need to stay in your lane. Don't talk about shit you don't know about - you're an embarrassment.

  124. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    No but they pay money for people to say it on stage and call it entertainment.

  125. Re: Wow... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    In other words, they're exactly like the Democrats. Try being a Christian...utter hostility unless you're the kind of Rev. Wright Christian.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  126. Re:Gee what a shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only spot in OK that could realistically be described as *culturally* Confederate is the southeast corner of the state. As an Oklahoman you'd be aware of that.

  127. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  128. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My first child, now 35, was technically illegitimate. I ask you the same question I asked my parents in 1979 - Why is that a problem?

    Here, let an elitist, white member of the patriarchy, mansplain it to you:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For_National_Action

    It focused on the deep roots of black poverty in America and concluded controversially that the relative absence of nuclear families (those having both a father and mother present) would greatly hinder further progress toward economic and political equality.

    Of course, you could convincingly argue that the policies and laws of our country made by the same class of elitists have led to this dismal state of affairs, and has for the last couple of decades or so, started to break down white middle class families as well. But it is a problem.

  129. Re: Wow... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    One more fact: Prior to WWII, the army was somewhat integrated and FDR (a God to the left) helped segregate it.

    Fact: Lyndon B. Johnson routinely called blacks niggers and was always reminding them to stay in their place. LBJ is not really ancient history.

  130. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    howitzer, a VIOLENT name,

    You fucking racist liar propagandist identity politics fucking asshole puke motherfucker traitor pig. You Goebbels. you BERNAYS. You LIAR.

    The per capita statistics on Black born in the USA. The sub-culture is so toxic your IQs drop from normal to 85 by age 18. your toxic fatherless shit households have THE WORST per capita rates of violence, crime, incarceration, disease, lack of education, welfare, food stamps and EBT abuse.

    You liar Sharpton fucking plantation masters make you believe that whitey is abusing.

    ARE YOU TO BELIEVE BLACKS THAT YOU NEED WHITE HELP? You shouldnt listen to these fucking race baiting assholes, watch emigrants from Africa and Jamaica who are black KICK YOUR ASS at working and wealth building. YOU CAN DO IT TOO, Blacks, dont listen to FUCK ASSHOLE SHITSTAIN fuckers like howitzer86, the fucking puke liar.

    All who race bait are the lowest fucking scum shits.

    Black racism has gotten out of control. All of it needs to stop. This is a side effect of the scum who use identity politics to keep the ethnic groups on the plantation.

    FUCK YOU, howitzer LIAR FUCK LIAR ASSHOLE SHIT.

  131. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sick NAMBLA hepatitis diseased asshole with a fucking mental disorder.

    We tolerate you, your fucking diseased bodily fluids, your use of our clean toilets, your fucking flaming gay asshole lisps, your light in the fucking loafers shit, your undeserved promotions or you'll start a rainbow march on HR if we don't kowtow to your fucking mental disorder faggotry.

    We tolerate you but because YOU and YOUR FUCKING KIND are SUCH FUCKED UP ASSHOLES who like SHIT ON THEIR DICKS and you wont SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT and you try to TEACH KIDS ABOUT YOUR FUCKING SHIT - we TOLERATE you, fucking slime, we TOLERATE you,

    Be we god-damned HATE you. Fucking weirdo mental fucking shit dick diseased fucking asshole.

    Go fuck a man or fist a hole or eat shit or do whatever you fucks do, just leave the kids out of it.

    But you cant,your TWINK PORN proves the NABMLA fucking scum you really are.

    Most murderous serial killing predators are NAMBLA faggots that rap and murder boys. Fucking sick pig faggot.

  132. Re:Wow... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    I hear that quite a lot. But no one can name any prominent ones to do so. I do know Senator Byrd never thought of becoming a republican.

    Can you list some of these democrats in the south fighting all this equality and desegregation stuff who switched to the republicans?

  133. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sigh. Almost predictably, news outlets such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPPUXpFYwjE criticize these people for saying the "horrible N word" but gloss right over the "hang them from a tree" part. It is like saying a word is more offensive than murder. In what world does that make sense?

  134. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are humans, including those of color. Then animals. Then sub-niggers like you. You fucking racist sub-nigger assholes drudge up race and think about it all the time. We tolerate your shit. We tolerate your criminality. We tolerate what you did to south africa, where a prosperous country with a race problem turned into a third world crime ridden sub-hell hole with a horrific race problem. All sub-niggers are the same. I think the human gene is missing in some people of color. It is epigenetic , and if the human genes are no expressed properly you get a sub-nigger manifestation. This sub-nigger gene expression is not limited to black skin, but it is hereditary. Sub niggers like yourself inject race and sing songs of hate and destroy society and your own families. You lie. You scum. You are the worst most pathetic liars ever. I wouldnt trade places with you even if you had 100million in the bank,I am so happy that my kids and I are no sub niggers.

    You serve satan when you inject race all the time sub-nigger. Spit on you sub-nigger.

  135. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL. It is a severe handicap. I'd rather be born white than black, wouldn't you? Until that is not true I think there is a big advantage to being white. Similarly there is a pretty significant advantage to being male in my tech field. Meh, I get these advantages but still can admit it, and work to level the field when I can. However to deny these is stupid or think that "n** are making a big deal of it."

    Old fashioned racist you are.

  136. Run this by me again, please. by westlake · · Score: 1

    College is supposed to be a place where all viewpoints and ideas are explored - even the ugly and stupid ones.

    Since when did cat calls from the frat house become an intellectually rigorous exploration of ideas good and bad?

    By kicking out the frat charter, you only drive the problem deeper underground... and where is the frickin' benefit in doing that among a body of kids that are going to be naturally rebellious in the first place?

    More naturally conformist than rebellious would be closer to the truth.

    The geek conflates freedom of speech with anonymity and freedom from all restraints. But the roots of a traditional liberal arts education have always been openness, inclusion and civility.

    You stand your ground and you stand exposed.

    No hiding behind the bed sheets of the KKK, the screen name or the keyboard. It takes guts to do that. The kind that were celebrated in Selma this past week.

  137. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not racism because when a black person calls you names to hurt your feelings, they also don't have the weight of systemic racial biases behind it. They call you names and that's it.

    YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT IT'S RACISM, you fucking apologist cunt.

    I'm fucking sick of spineless fucks like you working hard to ensure no black person is ever culpable of racism. After all, 'racist' is a term only ever applied to whities.

  138. Re:"Superiority" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there is one thing on the planet we could all live without it would be the racists of all colors.

    And if there was one thing the planet could live without it's Humans!

  139. NERDS! NEEEEEEEERDS! by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    Check your required viewing materials, you will find, 'revenge of the nerds' at the top of the list. We are an oppressed minority who will always be marginalized by society and disrespected as a group.

    that was irony in case you missed it....

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  140. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL. It is a severe handicap. I'd rather be born white than black, wouldn't you?

    In a white country I guess. If i had to live in a black country it would be helpful to be black. It is so much easier to live in asia when being asian too.

    Immigration is hard for everyone. Granted that in the case of the USA, some of that black immigration were forced on them. But now they are free to go to Liberia

    . Most refused when that was offered them them in 1820. They chosen what you described as 'oppression' because real oppression in Liberia is worst and actually real.

    Racism is hanging some nigger on a tree because of his race. Until this happen, I will consider racism against black peoples in america to be a lie.

    As Morgan Freeman said; "Black history is American history" and on how to end racism "Stop talking about it."

    You, and all the other artificially over-sensitive liberals, are perpetuating the idea of racism because it is damn convenient to win elections. Divide and conquer. Divide the populace by race and you can stay in power.

  141. Is University of Oklahoma private? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > 1) the first amendment only prevents the government from slapping you down. This was a slapdown by a private entity.

    University of Oklahoma sounds like a state university to me. If it's private, then I'm wrong, but I don't think state-run universities can punish people for bad speech, as that would be a First Amendment violation and state governments are bound by equal protection. They don't get to pick some speech they approve of and some they disapprove of.

    Also, it does protect you from government-imposed consequences. What it doesn't protect you from is people publishing videos of what a racist jerk you are and protesting. So they do look like racist jerks to me, but I don't think a government entity can or should go around punishing them for that.

    You and I, however, are perfectly free to communicate to any and everyone what racist assholes these people are and such, though.

  142. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That depends, do you count it as "voter suppression" if the poll workers take reasonable steps to make sure that only people who are allowed to vote actually get to vote?

    Or should those rules just never be enforced and we just let whoever wants to vote, vote as many times as they wish?

  143. the powers that be are desperate to stifle dissent by leftistconservative · · Score: 0

    whatever ideologies the powers that be are against, I am for. Whatever ideologies they are for, I am against. The powers that be think that mass immigration/multiculturalism are the absolute best thing on earth. I am therefore against those ideologies. The powers that be think that white racial consciousness/pride is the Ultimate Evil. I am therefore proud of being white.

  144. wtf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why is this crap on slashdot

  145. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by thatshortkid · · Score: 1

    Have you seen the shit people go through if they have a tattoo?

    what, do they get treated like minorities?

    --
    The IRS is the one organization that you don't want to fuck with. Remember, these are the guys who took down Al Capone.
  146. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Horseshit. Let me introduce you to the dictionary: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

  147. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Yes, but--If it looks like a fox, walks like a fox, and barks like a fox... It's not at all unreasonable to conclude that we're talking about a fox.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  148. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

    Your first "example" is actually lifted from a parody originally performed by Eddie Murphy on Saturday Night Live in 1982. I saw it the first time it ran.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  149. Which ones? (Care to cite?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, I can't think of any good / lasting ones that are at all like that. Except maybe I guess DMX.
    And that guy's funny to laugh at.

  150. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by ScentCone · · Score: 2

    Which is another way to STILL skip talking about the actual subject matter. Fox! Fox! Fox! Anything but the topic at hand! Fox! FOX FOX FOX!

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  151. Only works one way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we close the inner city if we catch some black dude making an anti-cracker commentary? No of coarse not.

  152. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Cederic · · Score: 2

    I'm not homosexual, and I don't use the term queer - the ignorant fucks bullying me did.

    I'm sure that prejudice and discrimination are out there but I've still never seen anti-lgbt policies at any company, or government organisation. I have seen sexist anti-male ones but no racist ones.

    You know why? Because this society doesn't tolerate bigotry (except sadly feminist misandry) and although there are idiots everywhere they come in all races, genders and gender preferences. Nobody gets a free ride through life so stop being a previous snowflake and don't accept bigotry where it still exists - no matter who it's from.

  153. Re:Wow... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    Strom Thurmond is by far the most famous. Some other names would be Jesse Helms and Trent Lott.

    But yes, the direct switching of Dixiecrats is overstated. What happened with GOP wasn't so much that it was flooded by southern ex-Democrats, but rather that it saw a niche that aligned closer with their base conservative platform, and filled it with new people. The whole "Southern strategy" thing.

  154. http://www.webcammodels.com/ncmoneymakesmec by AutumnLynch · · Score: 1
  155. Demographics by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    The GOP (other than small enclaves such as frat houses) is demographically doomed. Much like Fox News, their largest core group is rapidly graying and not being replaced at a high enough rate. In the long run even abject, rapacious greed isn't enough to keep them as a viable party. But they are not going quietly, screaming racist and misogynist epithets as they rapidly slide into oblivion.

  156. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

    "It's not racism because when a black person calls you names to hurt your feelings"

    Bullshit. It's socially accepted racism.

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  157. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Know how I know you're racist?

    Seriously, the amount of prejudice in your own views, that you don't even see, is shocking.

    Yet that is how most racism is these days.
    Most racism isn't the "crazy offensive Uncle" variety, out in the open, easy to see.
    It's in attitudes like yours, in language that's so coded people have lost sight of the inherent bigotry it contains.

  158. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

    "When enough blacks are in positions of management to deny white people opportunities because they feel that for arbitrary reasons, they just don't fit in, talk me to death about the social acceptance of black racism"

    Have a look at most of the films that are for black people and by black people and have at most the token white in them.

    Justice? Fair?

    Whatever - it's still racism.

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  159. Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

    Fighting words are written or spoken words, generally expressed to incite hatred or violence from their target. Specific definitions, freedoms, and limitations of fighting words vary by jurisdiction. It is also used in a general sense of words that when uttered tend to create (deliberately or not) a verbal or physical confrontation by their mere usage.

    See also Abu Hamsa (only talked about how Muslims should kill all Americans), Edward Snowden and Wikileaks.

  160. "As a millenial" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a millenial I dont find racism offensive, I find it contemptuous.

    As a 25-year-old who can spell, that's where I stopped reading your comment.

  161. No, it wouldn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since the university is a private run entity. It gets government money, but it gets private money too. Just as every single corporation gets government aid as well as private money.

    Do you demand that companies be held to the same restrictions and FOIAs as government? No? Then you can't call for the university to do so.

    Also, look at what you did to Abu Hamsa for HIS speech. In a foreign country.

  162. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, that is a valid response.... /sarc

    What an idiot. Parent was a fairly cogent counter-rant to an unhinged, full-on racist rant. Point-by-point no less. And your comeback is that weak? Idiots like you are why it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation about anything with a political dimension, such as racism. You appear to have learned your debating skills from Rachel Maddow and Rush Limbaugh. Hint: A smug look and a snarky comment are not an argument.

  163. Re: Wow... by dywolf · · Score: 1

    I covered this before. Half of your "facts" are wrong.
    They absolutely did switch over racism.

    You ignore and leave out many salient facts of history in order to make a deceptive point based on the names of the parties, while ignoring actual history and what the parties actually stood for..

    Back then, it was the Radical Republicans who were the liberals.
    It was the Democrats who were the conservatives, who resisted change and progress.
    That is the script that got flipped in between the 1860's and the 1960's.

    And no, Republicans didn't lead the charge in the 1960's: Opposition to civil rights was broken down along geographical lines, not political, with nearly all votes against the Civil Rights act coming from Southern congressional delegates, regardless of party affiliation, and all support from non-southern delegates, regardless of party.

    It's also worth noting that the Dixiecrats were not Democrats. They were a separate political party, who left the Democratic party precisely because of it's support to Civil Rights, and their opposition to them. It was the last majorly successful third party this nation has seen. Again note: the Dixiecrats were conservative in nature, not liberal, which is why it's not sufficient, and even deceptive, to toss around the party names, while ignoring what they stood for at different points in history, and how they changed.

    And it was following Nixon's Southern Strategy the overwhelming majority of southern Democrats and Dixiecrats, again a generally far more conservative demographic of people than democrats in the rest of the country, became Republicans.

    And then about halfway through your post switched from deceptive "facts" to outright racist garbage.
    So no, sorry, you're not insightful.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  164. Fix your welfre state, then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want it to be disallowed to require you to give up your first amendment right by government fiat, then I should be allowed to take welfare and refuse a job that requires me to give away my first amendment right without losing my payments to punish me for not giving up my right.

    1. Re:Fix your welfre state, then by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      "If [I] want it to be disallowed to require [me] to give [my] first amendment right by government fiat...?"

      The Constitution of the United States of America says that it is disallowed and the Supreme Court has affirmed that on many occasions. It is not simply a matter of what I want, it is pretty much a matter of settled law. If all you damn lefties would just understand that the 1st amendment exists and is settled law and stop foaming at the mouth every time some teenager utters something about their favorite deity, the whole country might understand this. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights simply because they choose to attend a public school. Get over it.

      If you can show me anywhere in the Constitution where it clearly defines your right to ask the government to forcibly take my property, valuables and wealth and give it to you just because you don't want to work, I would be very grateful.

  165. Re:Gee what a shock by painandgreed · · Score: 1

    The only spot in OK that could realistically be described as *culturally* Confederate is the southeast corner of the state. As an Oklahoman you'd be aware of that.

    Please, I'm an Okie. I've gone West never to return. OK, is as confederate as Texas. They're pretty much the same except nothing is big is OK.

  166. Re: Wow... by zarthrag · · Score: 1

    Those "reasonable steps" are being used to fix a problem with no-known documented instances or impact.

    What is known, and has been admitted, is that those steps tend to reduce the ability and convenience to vote for the young, and for minorities - thus resulting in voter fraud itself. Combine that with rampant redistricting and you've arrived at the new 1963.

    Here's the real deal: Having a birth certificate, driver's license, or SSN isn't a requirement to be an American. But it (along with a fee and a day of your time, every few years) is to get an ID or driver's license in these same states.

    Virginia, for example, is at the front of the line in rolling-out an ID requirement to vote. That's a $10 fee every 5 years. "Reasonable", yes. But not *necessary*. And certainly *not* required by the constitution. What if the fee crept up? What if you could only get one between the hours of 11AM and 1PM? ...not counting lunchtime? How far does it have to go before this smells like a poll-tax?

    You're just parroting a problem that you've been told by Fox News is rampant. It doesn't exist. If you want to find voter fraud - look no further than at just about every state governor and legislature - it's where the problem has always been, always will be. Political power's #1 priority is, and always was, maintaining and strengthening that power

    --
    Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
  167. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    nobody in my family was ever property.

    If your family is descended from Europe, which is probably is. And wasn't Roman then you can all but guarantee that at some point in time some member or members of your family were property. Slavery wasn't invented for blacks and it certainly isn't gone from this world.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  168. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does only niggers make a big deal out of it?

    Same reason only Jews make such deal about genocide. As bad as the holocaust was it wasn't the most recent, most deadly, or most brutal or most anything, maybe have a crack at most efficient but attempted genocide has happened many, many times in the past, is still going on right now in parts of the world and no doubt will be attempted again by one group or another. Yet we'll still have holocaust memorial day.

  169. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Black racism? THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? Really? Seriously? Kill yourself.

    Ohhhhhh, so close.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  170. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Cederic · · Score: 1

    I have prejudice in my views. Hopefully less in my actions.

    Where I consciously notice it, I challenge myself. I'm not really sensing it in what I wrote though, sorry.

    I'm also arguing very strongly that racism is bad, and don't do it, and definitely don't be ironic and pretend that racism is ok if you're a certain race, because that's both ignorant and bigoted.

    Maybe that's something on which we can agree?

  171. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    even in percentage terms, blacks beat them by just a couple percentage points.

    Whites account for approximately 75% of the American population and receive roughly 37% of all welfare funding. Blacks are roughly 15% of the population and receive roughly 35%. That doesn't exactly support your point. Feel free to look it up.

  172. map shows most racist people on earth by NewYork · · Score: 1

    Google "map shows most racist people on earth";
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...

  173. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Fwipp · · Score: 1

    Parent was a self-pitying white person who's upset that they have to wear a suit and have a dumb haircut in order to be taken seriously at their cushy well-paying job (because, honestly, who else wears a suit?). Also, some ladies wear fake tans because being as white as a ghost isn't the most attractive thing ever. I mean it's because of anti-white racism I guess??

    The rest of their "fairly cogent counter-rant" was "but not ALL whites," "*I* never lynched a black person, therefore racism don't real," and "Black people are just primitive but I'm not racist for saying that."

    Like. That's pretty dang racist, and they aren't gonna magically flip their worldview by talking to me on Slashdot. They don't deserve anything better than a smug look and a snarky comment.

  174. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    It isn't sexist that we die earlier, since we have the legal and social right to live as long as we can. It isn't sexism that women can't pee while standing up without using some sort of appliance either (and without getting their legs wet).

    It is not in general legal to discriminate against men; perhaps you should provide examples.

    I don't know about the harsher sentences; could you give references? It strikes me as a very difficult thing to measure. (There is a great reluctance to go after women who rape men, but that's a lot less common than the reverse.)

    School teachers may give boys lower marks, but they don't call on girls as often (and I've seen better sources for the latter than the former).

    Men earn more than women, and the reason I've seen most often given is that men work more than women. Given that, I'd expect men in general to work more hours than women in general. It's also much more common to have a stay-at-home wife than a stay-at-home husband.

    Why does the government spend more on female healthcare? Could it be that Medicare is the biggest government medical program, it spends a lot on old people, and there are more old women than old men? Or that Medicaid supports families with children more than not, and the man is much more likely to ditch the kids than the woman is? My impression is that specifically female medical problems have been rather neglected by medical research (breast cancer is an exception, perhaps because there are boobs involved), so if there's more funding going to them that may be catch-up. Without knowing where your numbers come from and mean, it's difficult to judge them.

    I have seen people bullied for perceived sexual orientation, and at least protected by government institutions. A nearby school district (in Anoka County, Minnesota) wound up having eight suicides in a year, largely because of anti-gay messages protected and to some extent encouraged by the school system. I know a gay person who was in that school district when this was going on, and it was really ugly. I have also known same-sex couples who wanted the legal benefits of marriage with their lifelong loves, and only recently have they gotten it.

    Statistically speaking, you are a beneficiary, having avoided a lot of hassles and problems by being the right sex and sexual orientation, and perhaps the right skin color.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  175. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    I'd probably walk out and ask for my money back if a comic started being racist rather than funny. (It's a possibility; some of the warmup acts at the comedy club I frequent are barely funny, but they're not offensive to somebody who doesn't mind vulgar language that much.) I don't know that I'd get my money back, but there's a good chance. In any case, that's a private matter, just like the national frat pulling their franchise or whatever.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  176. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Cederic · · Score: 1

    I was referring to UK law and society, where the harsher sentencing, teacher bias and legal discrimination against men are well established.

    Bullying may be more of an issue in the US, and there are religious oriented schools in the UK that actively discriminate against women/girls and homosexual boys, but they're outliers and taken under Government control if they don't stop.

    Statistically speaking though, no, I'm not a beneficiary. Shit, I've been assaulted three times in the last four months by women, with no action taken against them. Sure, I could put any of them into hospital with ease but the bystanders laughing at them attacking me would stop laughing if I defended myself..

    Lower life expectancy is a gender politics issue btw - until women work the same hours as men, in jobs as physically arduous and dangerous, retire at the same age and don't get the choice of skipping a few years work to look after the kids, life expectancy wont equalise. The gap has however started to narrow, as women that did work through their careers become more common amongst the pensioners.

  177. Re:Wow... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Your first paragraph is at least partly accurate, although it seems to me that more prominent Republicans than prominent Democrats liked Hitler. Your second paragraph is completely out of right field.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  178. Re: Wow... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Got a source for the army stuff? There was a lot of racism in the Armed Forces in WWII, but there was a lot of racism before, and I don't know how it changed. I know it was officially ended by a Democrat.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  179. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by rochrist · · Score: 1

    Because, Lord knows, there's no possible explanation as to why black people might act a bit hostile toward the people that enslaved them for a few hundred years. It's inconceivable!

  180. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know about the harsher sentences; could you give references? It strikes me as a very difficult thing to measure.

    A quick search led to this study.

    (There is a great reluctance to go after women who rape men, but that's a lot less common than the reverse.)

    Why the "but"? What does it matter how common a crime is? Are we not equal before the law? Is rape not a crime? Why should there be "reluctance" to persecute someone for committing a crime over the gender of the suspect/defendant?

    School teachers may give boys lower marks, but they don't call on girls as often

    So you're saying girls are getting better grades not because they earned it through their own merit, but only because the teachers, who are mostly women, don't discriminate against them as much?

    My impression is that specifically female medical problems have been rather neglected by medical research (breast cancer is an exception, perhaps because there are boobs involved), so if there's more funding going to them that may be catch-up. Without knowing where your numbers come from and mean, it's difficult to judge them.

    You say it's difficult to judge, but you're already judging before you even see the numbers ."Your impression" is that he is wrong, that there are reasons to explain the disparity.

    Why won't you believe a man? We're told by feminists time and again to just believe a woman when she protests about misogyny. Why the different standard and expectation of rigor if it's a man complaining about men's issues?

  181. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is Voter ID laws "suppression"? Anyone can obtain a legitimate state ID cheaply or even free. And if you don't have enough money to get an ID in this country, you have bigger problems than voting.

    How is it that to get a bank account, welfare, driver's license, etc you have to provide ID or proof of citizenship/birth, but as a citizen to vote you shouldn't have to? How do you validate that the vote wasn't corrupted by repeat votes, dead people, or illegal aliens, simply on their WORD? If the idea that Voter ID is suppression, and not simply verification of the right to vote and a way to keep tallies honest and true, explain why Obama recieved greater than 100% of the votes for several areas, as this is statistically (and legitimately) impossible.

    To say that having to prove your citizenship to exercise your vote is racist or "suppressive" is, in fact a lie. A quick google search will provide the exact opposite, in fact, voter participation by the black voting bloc GREW in places where Voter ID was required. How do you explain that?

    Every time I hear this tired rhetoric about "voter suppression" it just irks me. There is no active "suppression" going on, only in the minds of racist Democrats.

  182. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet we'll still have holocaust memorial day.

    And yet we didn't stop having genocides ever since. Holocaust memorial is a scam, it claim monopoly on human suffering and cause us to ignore actual real genocide that happen now and that we can prevent.

    The only way to prevent current genocide is by denying the holocaust. Giving them all the attention they demand is too much distraction.

    I do not deny the holocaust because I don't believe it, but because I need to.

  183. Ach! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of those Scots tossing cabers around my state every year says otherwise, cracka.

  184. Shaky Foundation= WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your argument is still wrong. You say there's no limitation in the constitution and then follow it right up with a limitation. You even claimed to have read the thing and didn't find hate speech. Well, I can't seem to find the part about "imminent danger". There are no qualifiers in the first. Everything is ok if you read it literally. Interpretation is up to the court and can be changed at any time.

  185. dumbass says dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OMG. Maybe, just MAYBE, AC, if you spent more time studying in school instead of beating up fags, you could make a coherent argument and would know why just about everything you claim to be truth is utterly WRONG.

  186. Re:"Superiority" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Call me racist, but I never can understand that Scottish brogue. What the hell are you on about?

  187. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because you're sumdumass[sic] and are ignorant of the roles of your elected officials does not mean your argument is correct.

  188. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    Yes, the national frat is private business. The University is not private business; it is a state school.

  189. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

    I consider pointing out the truth of you being offended precisely that... Sorry you disagree, but you are the one ranting.

  190. Re:Wow... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    I asked for names and all you could do is trash talk. I guess that makes where in the grand scheme of things. I'm betting it is not where you think it is.

  191. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >In a white country I guess. If i had to live in a black country it would be helpful to be black. It is so much easier to live in asia when being asian too.

    Generally not. Read "Big in Japan" - it is very often helpful to do business in Africa and Asia as a white man - you are viewed as an outsider, yes, but more wealthy and in most ways more trustworthy (generally in Africa this is true too). Denial of our advantage is always puzzling to me, like it undermines legitimacy or something. I'm very happy to not be a USA minority, and very happy to be a man. I see discrimination against women all the time, try to stop it when I can, but I don't poke my head in the sand about these things.

  192. Is the audio part (aka recorded chant)Video legal? by tebjmd · · Score: 1

    I am no lawyer and not racist. I have a business and put surveillance cameras in that can record audio. In my state that is a violation of wiretap laws to record audio. You don't need to be going around recording audio here. If they do say something bad it isn't allowed in court but you can be charged. Just a curiousity.

  193. Re:Is the audio part (aka recorded chant)Video leg by tebjmd · · Score: 1

    So? If this is not admissible in a court is everything else much ado about nothing?

  194. WHO s imbecile? Africans spend whole time in RACE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You ve never BEEN around Africans? They spend their WHOLE, TIME, reveling in THEIR RACE and ACTING, THEIR, STUPID, SPECIES. It is not race, we are TWO DIFFERENT SPECIES. We ve determined speciation in animals for less severe differences, but we go to the BIOCHEMISTRY AND GENETICS OF IT and differences in molecules ARE SO WIDE we do not even need F distributions, the difference can be ASSESSED BY INSPECTION. We have the right to select OUR people, don't we? IT is one of the fundamental freedoms, freedom of association. Do you want to speak mumble jumble? Do you want to spend your time defining HOUSE and calling LAW AND POLICE and calling everything SHIT and WASTE or delivering free messages to ANYONE AROUND as if friends? Those traits are very OBVIOUS... Thanks an old BABOON looking cretin in another century before telecommunications that we have to suffer those big bugs and all their excrement looks.

  195. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

    "If you start allowing for instances of "acceptable racism", you're not a serious person who wants to see it removed from society." You mean like white officers being frequently overly violent against blacks. That kind of "acceptable racism"... the pendulum swings two ways.

  196. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

    Because in my experience, that sort of lazy ad hominem is most frequently practiced by people on the left of the political spectrum. The reflexive Fox! Fox! Fox! is a classic example.

    ...and yet "lazy left" isn't a frequently practiced ad hominem in your world? In other words "lazy left" == "Fox! Fox! Fox!"

    Racist rants should be universally held up for shame, but the media - especially the proudly left-leaning outlets - are absolutely duplicitous on that subject.

    Are you honestly trying to tell me that if a group of blacks was chanting overtly racist remarks they wouldn't be called on it by whites? but then I suppose things like "black lives matter" is probably racist chanting in your world.

  197. Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control by metrix007 · · Score: 1

    Actually, while that example wasn't great, he makes many valid points, such as calling the parent on his blatant racism.

    --
    If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.