'I don't know what sort of science fiction you've been reading, but global warming isn't going to make the Earth uninhabitable, or even remotely so. That sort of thing is nothing more than alarmist bullshit."
I won't make earth uninhabitable bit it will make it more miserable. We can adapt after the population has been culled and after the resource wars have been settled. The balance of power probably won't shift too much, we will probably go ahead and kill lots of people and take over their natural resources and lets face it they can't do jack shit to stop us.
I don't know if Americans will be happier when it's all said and done but for sure many other countries will be either gone or miserable. I suspect even Americans will have a lower standard of living because most of the foods they are used to eating now will simply be unavailable.
Easy, just like now somebody will have authority over you. That person will be able to open up documents you locked with your fingerprints. You will get fired, you will told to fuck off when you ask for your fingerprints.
This isn't about you, this is about marginalizing you even more.
"I see no benefit in any of this."
Not for you, you are just a domesticated animal. You exist to be milked, they will feed you and take care of you as long as you continue to produce milk and let them extract it from you. Once that is no longer happening off you go to the glue factory.
I know lot of people here on/. hate his guts but there is no disputing the man is a genius and a visionary. Everytime he speaks people jump up and down here call him a smelly hippie or something but in a few years he turns out to be right.
You would think with a track record like he has he would get a little more respect around here but maybe it's good enough just to be right.
"Free is as much about the principle as the price. GIMP really isn't a photoshop substitute, but if I had to offer up my thumb every time I was about to use Photoshop, I wouldn't. I refuse to work that way; I'd rather use lesser-quality tools than be monitored and have each use of the software I've licensed be tracked with as much dilligence as a mortgage contract signature..."
Maybe, maybe not. Lots of people puff up their chests and say things like this but when push comes to shove they will just bend over and take it.
If the consumers in the US were actually aware of their power things might be different but billions of dollars worth of marketing research hasn't gone to waste. The companies and the politicians know exactly how to push your buttons to get you to buy whatever shit they are selling.
You know what. I don't want to run MacOSX on some piece of crap hardware. I want to run windows on a Mac Laptop. That way I can have a triple boot windows, mac, linux sytem.
That's all I want, one machine to run all the operating systems I use. If apple enabled me to install windows on their laptops this whole thing would be moot.
I think interbase/firebird makes an interesting study. Borland open sourced it, then they tried to close it again but it was too late. It got forked became open sourced and thrived. The borland product is pretty much dead.
If you were using proprietary software and they got bought out and killed (see peoplesoft) they you wouldn't even have that option. At least with open source you have that option.
All those islands will be sold to rich americans who need their own country to what ever the fuck they want. Michael Jackson is an early buyer. Nobody over there will hassle him about having kids sleep in his bed. You can bet your ass no movie/rock star will be hassled about having drugs or underage lovers or anything else either.
"I'd classify myself as in support of [the current] war. I also happen to drive a very nice vehicle that I'd never consider putting anything tacky like a bumper sticker on (I don't even like the inspection stickers on my windshield). But I'll tell you what: If I found out that there were government agents hassling people over an anti-war sticker in an official capacity - I'd have my car plastered with them!"
I pointed out that you will do no such thing. You will instead sit quietly and watch from afar like most Americans do and you basically agreed with me.
YOu don't really care about civil liberties unless it impacts you directly. If some liberal in some far off town is getting hassled by the govt for speaking against the war you have no problem with that.
By the way "supporting the troops" doesn't mean sending them off to some place to die and kill. Especially for no reason other then to make some people lots of money. And before you go off about how we are delivering freedom to the downtrodden I would like to point you in the direction of North Korea, China, Palestine, most of africa, cuba and a dozen other countries where people deserve to live in freedom. Too bad none of them have oil though.
YOu have the perception of choice but that's not really true. When you go into a burger king you only have the choice of which coke product to drink, you are not allowed to choose pepsi. There are hundreds of other situations like this.
"But I'll tell you what: If I found out that there were government agents hassling people over an anti-war sticker in an official capacity - I'd have my car plastered with them!"
Well you just found out!. There it is in black and white. If you want you can call the guy and confirm.
So what are you going to do? Anything at all (other then your slashdot post)?
I don't mean to be mean but I would guess you will do absolutely nothing. YOu will simply go on with your life until it hits closer to home. So some liberal democrat scientists gets hassled in Idaho, what does that have to do with you. Right?
I think this election will show the arab world once and for all how little the rest of the world cares about them. Aid will be cut off, palestenians will suffer even more then they already do, there will be widespread disease and starvation, and the west will sit there and tell them go fuck themselves because they elected people who fight against an occupying army.
I tell you what though. If cutting off all aid and mass starvation does not tame them nothing will. Israel will be stuck with the resistance forever.
It's not centered, why not? It looks goofy off centered like that. All that wasted space on top, what purpose does that serve? I could maybe understand it if it was vertically centered but it's not. The attempt at gradiation is super lame because it ends up being a small bar with gradiation and the rest either white or a weird gray.
I can see how some people might like the MAC OSX look though.
"Most major search engines offer a very clean interface these days as well, and MSN is no exception. However, MSN isn't advertising anywhere near as aggressively as Google is."
What???? Are you seriously comparing the home pages of MSN and Google and coming to the conclusion that both of them are clean?
Outlook is a bloated pig of a useless application. It has lousy searching compared to evolution, it doesn't support RSS, it's about 50 times slower then evolution and if you are not using it with exchange it's just about useless.
Evolution also is able to read straight from your mailboxes if you are running a local SMTP server!. I honestly don't know why anybody would point to outlook as an example of a nice program unless they truly never used anything else and don'w know any better.
If linux people were like everybody else linux would never been written. Ordinary people don't write software. Jow Blow doesn't hang out at IRC and help people who have problems. Jane average does not submit bug reports.
"By "depends upon", I mean direct dependency, i.e. linking. And it is pretty much the consensus of every lawyer I've ever talked to who has looked at the GPL."
So which companies make products that link against the MYSQL codebase?
"How do you propose to use MySQL without linking to its GPLed C access libraries? "
Most people use ODBC or JDBC. Some people use the framework that came with their open source language like python or ruby.
"I can't think of one company that has ever used MySQL without linking against its GPLed code."
Aaah I see now. You have no idea what linking means. Linking means I have some source code and it links against their codebase during compile time. Linking does not mean I am USING the ODBC or the JDBC connector.
So there you go. Unless your company is in the business of writing ODBC, ADO, JDBC, or other database adapters you have nothing to worry about. In fact unless your company is in the business of writing software that you sell or distribute to outsiders you have nothing to worry about.
"No, but again, given the potential need for distribution under the strictest interpretation thereof, they could very easily need to integrate MySQL itself with a proprietary product in a way that would require a non-GPL license, as I think I made clear in the GP post."
I still don't understand how that would happen. Unless you modified the MYSQL source code in some way how can you possibly be subject to the GPL.
"Under a strict interpretation of the GPL, if one piece of software depends on another to function, it is classified as a derivative work. As such, it must be licensed under the GPL. The customer's use of MySQL requires InnoDB (for example) to function. Thus, the customer's use of MySQL is a derivative work of InnoDB. Therefore, according to the GPL, it must be licensed under the GPL."
Who is interpreting the GPL this way? It seems like you just decided to interpret it that way to erect a straw man. Can you point out to any member of the FSF or any prominent legal scholar who has this intepretation?
"Now do you see why the Oracle buyout is very bad news and why linking exceptions are vital to the continued success of free software in enterprise?"
No I don't. You have made a faulty premise and then drawn a weird conclusion.
But you still haven't answered my question though. What enterprise is in the business of distributing modified mysql software? If that's too hard then what enterprises are involved with delivering products linked against the mysql software?
I can't think of even one company that modifies or links against the mysql codebase and delivers a product. I think you have somehow confused USING the product with MODIFYING AND DISTRIBUTING the product. For 99.999999% of "enterprises" this is a non issue because they simply USE the product.
"OK so Osama is a really nice guy as he just said it? Saddahm is a nice guy because he just said 'go kill this guy'. OK so that guy did it, but Saddahm didn't actually kill them?"
Osama ordered killings, he co-ordinated them, he funded them, he planned them, and as a direct result of his actions people were killed. Because of this he is partially responsible for those deaths.
The court has not proved that hamzi did any of that. In fact they didn't even prove that people actually died as a result of his speeches. They only proved that he made speeches and jailed him for that.
"That they had evidence of. It is still evidence. Stirring up racial hatred IS a crime."
Why is stirring up racial hatred a crime? It's just free speech. When Rush Limbaugh calls for bombing iran is it a racial crime? Oh and how is being jewish a race? Since when did religios affliation become a race? Jews are not a race. It's a religion, not a race.
" Are you saying that someone who murders one person who is seen by one person is better then a murderer who is seen by lots of people?""
I don't quite know what are saying here. Who was killed, when, by whom and was that introduced in court?
"Again it was WHAT he was saying. Racial hatred is a crime, incitement to violence is a crime, incitement to murder is a crime."
Jews are not a race. Racial hatred is not a crime. Incitement to violence MAY BE a crime if violence actually took place AS A DIRECT RESULT of the incitement.
Hamzi was never tried for any violence that took place as a result of his actions.
"Basically trying to get someone to commit a crime is a crime in itself."
REally? Hey go rob a bank!. Did I just commit a crime?
"Sounds like you also don't like the UK (or at least the laws there)."
No I don't like the laws there. I don't think people should be jailed for speaking.
Nothing you say contricts anything I said. He was jailed for speaking. The so called "recruitment" was simply saying things. Did you read the article you linked to? Here are some quotes.
"In court the jury had to base their verdicts on a series of nine speeches caught on video and audio tape - speeches that the prosecution claimed showed Abu Hamza, the former imam of Finsbury Park mosque, encouraging people to murder and stirring up racial hatred."
The evidence consisted of nine speeches.
"Also found at the house was an Encyclopaedia of Afghani Jihad, which contained detailed advice on making bombs and recommended potential terrorists should choose targets like Big Ben, the Eiffel Tower and the Statue of Liberty to publicise their cause."
They found a book in his house.
"In total the jury was given some 600 pages of Abu Hamza's speeches to consider, and provided with a glossary of Arabic terms in order to understand the Islamic religious terms so often used in his sermons."
Once again he was convicted of saying things.
"This guy said (from the story linked) in regard to Jews that "They are enemies to one another and Allah has cursed them. This is why he sent Hitler for them." And that "Killing a Kafir who is fighting you is OK. Killing a Kafir for any reason, you can say it, it is OK - even if there is no reason for it," he says. (Kafir meaning non-muslim)."
Wow. Saying you should kill jews is now a crime in the UK. He didn't actually kill jews, he just said you should kill them. Meanwhile british troops were ACTUALLY killing muslims in Iraq.
What's worse, saying you should kill people or actually killing people?
"He is also wanted in the US under terrorism charges."
Slashdot Mirror
Why is MS responsible for the wacky bios on macs? I can boot windows on every other i386 machine.
The fact is that Apple purposly made it hard to boot other OSes.
'I don't know what sort of science fiction you've been reading, but global warming isn't going to make the Earth uninhabitable, or even remotely so. That sort of thing is nothing more than alarmist bullshit."
I won't make earth uninhabitable bit it will make it more miserable. We can adapt after the population has been culled and after the resource wars have been settled. The balance of power probably won't shift too much, we will probably go ahead and kill lots of people and take over their natural resources and lets face it they can't do jack shit to stop us.
I don't know if Americans will be happier when it's all said and done but for sure many other countries will be either gone or miserable. I suspect even Americans will have a lower standard of living because most of the foods they are used to eating now will simply be unavailable.
Easy, just like now somebody will have authority over you. That person will be able to open up documents you locked with your fingerprints. You will get fired, you will told to fuck off when you ask for your fingerprints.
This isn't about you, this is about marginalizing you even more.
"I see no benefit in any of this."
Not for you, you are just a domesticated animal. You exist to be milked, they will feed you and take care of you as long as you continue to produce milk and let them extract it from you. Once that is no longer happening off you go to the glue factory.
BINGO. Listen up people, you are the product, not the customer.
I know lot of people here on /. hate his guts but there is no disputing the man is a genius and a visionary. Everytime he speaks people jump up and down here call him a smelly hippie or something but in a few years he turns out to be right.
You would think with a track record like he has he would get a little more respect around here but maybe it's good enough just to be right.
"Free is as much about the principle as the price. GIMP really isn't a photoshop substitute, but if I had to offer up my thumb every time I was about to use Photoshop, I wouldn't. I refuse to work that way; I'd rather use lesser-quality tools than be monitored and have each use of the software I've licensed be tracked with as much dilligence as a mortgage contract signature..."
Maybe, maybe not. Lots of people puff up their chests and say things like this but when push comes to shove they will just bend over and take it.
If the consumers in the US were actually aware of their power things might be different but billions of dollars worth of marketing research hasn't gone to waste. The companies and the politicians know exactly how to push your buttons to get you to buy whatever shit they are selling.
You know what. I don't want to run MacOSX on some piece of crap hardware. I want to run windows on a Mac Laptop. That way I can have a triple boot windows, mac, linux sytem.
That's all I want, one machine to run all the operating systems I use. If apple enabled me to install windows on their laptops this whole thing would be moot.
I think interbase/firebird makes an interesting study. Borland open sourced it, then they tried to close it again but it was too late. It got forked became open sourced and thrived. The borland product is pretty much dead.
There ya go, a real life example.
If you were using proprietary software and they got bought out and killed (see peoplesoft) they you wouldn't even have that option. At least with open source you have that option.
All those islands will be sold to rich americans who need their own country to what ever the fuck they want. Michael Jackson is an early buyer. Nobody over there will hassle him about having kids sleep in his bed. You can bet your ass no movie/rock star will be hassled about having drugs or underage lovers or anything else either.
Give the elite what they want!.
You yourself said.
"I'd classify myself as in support of [the current] war. I also happen to drive a very nice vehicle that I'd never consider putting anything tacky like a bumper sticker on (I don't even like the inspection stickers on my windshield). But I'll tell you what: If I found out that there were government agents hassling people over an anti-war sticker in an official capacity - I'd have my car plastered with them!"
I pointed out that you will do no such thing. You will instead sit quietly and watch from afar like most Americans do and you basically agreed with me.
YOu don't really care about civil liberties unless it impacts you directly. If some liberal in some far off town is getting hassled by the govt for speaking against the war you have no problem with that.
By the way "supporting the troops" doesn't mean sending them off to some place to die and kill. Especially for no reason other then to make some people lots of money. And before you go off about how we are delivering freedom to the downtrodden I would like to point you in the direction of North Korea, China, Palestine, most of africa, cuba and a dozen other countries where people deserve to live in freedom. Too bad none of them have oil though.
YOu have the perception of choice but that's not really true. When you go into a burger king you only have the choice of which coke product to drink, you are not allowed to choose pepsi. There are hundreds of other situations like this.
And yet comcast has been able to make a significant dent in profitablity of tivo. How? By offering a similar device with a crappier gui for free.
I think there is a lesson in there someplace.
"But I'll tell you what: If I found out that there were government agents hassling people over an anti-war sticker in an official capacity - I'd have my car plastered with them!"
Well you just found out!. There it is in black and white. If you want you can call the guy and confirm.
So what are you going to do? Anything at all (other then your slashdot post)?
I don't mean to be mean but I would guess you will do absolutely nothing. YOu will simply go on with your life until it hits closer to home. So some liberal democrat scientists gets hassled in Idaho, what does that have to do with you. Right?
It's not your you and your wife having sex they are concerned about. It's the homosexuals. This is texas after all.
I think this election will show the arab world once and for all how little the rest of the world cares about them. Aid will be cut off, palestenians will suffer even more then they already do, there will be widespread disease and starvation, and the west will sit there and tell them go fuck themselves because they elected people who fight against an occupying army.
I tell you what though. If cutting off all aid and mass starvation does not tame them nothing will. Israel will be stuck with the resistance forever.
So let me get this straight. Unless you installed every single program that any professor asks you will be fired?
Wow, please tell us the name of the university, I want to make I don't send my kids there.
Lets see now.
It's not centered, why not? It looks goofy off centered like that.
All that wasted space on top, what purpose does that serve? I could maybe understand it if it was vertically centered but it's not.
The attempt at gradiation is super lame because it ends up being a small bar with gradiation and the rest either white or a weird gray.
I can see how some people might like the MAC OSX look though.
"Most major search engines offer a very clean interface these days as well, and MSN is no exception. However, MSN isn't advertising anywhere near as aggressively as Google is."
What???? Are you seriously comparing the home pages of MSN and Google and coming to the conclusion that both of them are clean?
Can I have some of what you are smoking?
Outlook is a bloated pig of a useless application. It has lousy searching compared to evolution, it doesn't support RSS, it's about 50 times slower then evolution and if you are not using it with exchange it's just about useless.
Evolution also is able to read straight from your mailboxes if you are running a local SMTP server!. I honestly don't know why anybody would point to outlook as an example of a nice program unless they truly never used anything else and don'w know any better.
If linux people were like everybody else linux would never been written. Ordinary people don't write software. Jow Blow doesn't hang out at IRC and help people who have problems. Jane average does not submit bug reports.
"By "depends upon", I mean direct dependency, i.e. linking. And it is pretty much the consensus of every lawyer I've ever talked to who has looked at the GPL."
So which companies make products that link against the MYSQL codebase?
"How do you propose to use MySQL without linking to its GPLed C access libraries? "
Most people use ODBC or JDBC. Some people use the framework that came with their open source language like python or ruby.
"I can't think of one company that has ever used MySQL without linking against its GPLed code."
Aaah I see now. You have no idea what linking means. Linking means I have some source code and it links against their codebase during compile time. Linking does not mean I am USING the ODBC or the JDBC connector.
So there you go. Unless your company is in the business of writing ODBC, ADO, JDBC, or other database adapters you have nothing to worry about. In fact unless your company is in the business of writing software that you sell or distribute to outsiders you have nothing to worry about.
"No, but again, given the potential need for distribution under the strictest interpretation thereof, they could very easily need to integrate MySQL itself with a proprietary product in a way that would require a non-GPL license, as I think I made clear in the GP post."
I still don't understand how that would happen. Unless you modified the MYSQL source code in some way how can you possibly be subject to the GPL.
"Under a strict interpretation of the GPL, if one piece of software depends on another to function, it is classified as a derivative work. As such, it must be licensed under the GPL. The customer's use of MySQL requires InnoDB (for example) to function. Thus, the customer's use of MySQL is a derivative work of InnoDB. Therefore, according to the GPL, it must be licensed under the GPL."
Who is interpreting the GPL this way? It seems like you just decided to interpret it that way to erect a straw man. Can you point out to any member of the FSF or any prominent legal scholar who has this intepretation?
"Now do you see why the Oracle buyout is very bad news and why linking exceptions are vital to the continued success of free software in enterprise?"
No I don't. You have made a faulty premise and then drawn a weird conclusion.
But you still haven't answered my question though. What enterprise is in the business of distributing modified mysql software? If that's too hard then what enterprises are involved with delivering products linked against the mysql software?
I can't think of even one company that modifies or links against the mysql codebase and delivers a product. I think you have somehow confused USING the product with MODIFYING AND DISTRIBUTING the product. For 99.999999% of "enterprises" this is a non issue because they simply USE the product.
"OK so Osama is a really nice guy as he just said it? Saddahm is a nice guy because he just said 'go kill this guy'. OK so that guy did it, but Saddahm didn't actually kill them?"
Osama ordered killings, he co-ordinated them, he funded them, he planned them, and as a direct result of his actions people were killed. Because of this he is partially responsible for those deaths.
The court has not proved that hamzi did any of that. In fact they didn't even prove that people actually died as a result of his speeches. They only proved that he made speeches and jailed him for that.
"That they had evidence of. It is still evidence. Stirring up racial hatred IS a crime."
Why is stirring up racial hatred a crime? It's just free speech. When Rush Limbaugh calls for bombing iran is it a racial crime? Oh and how is being jewish a race? Since when did religios affliation become a race? Jews are not a race. It's a religion, not a race.
" Are you saying that someone who murders one person who is seen by one person is better then a murderer who is seen by lots of people?""
I don't quite know what are saying here. Who was killed, when, by whom and was that introduced in court?
"Again it was WHAT he was saying. Racial hatred is a crime, incitement to violence is a crime, incitement to murder is a crime."
Jews are not a race. Racial hatred is not a crime. Incitement to violence MAY BE a crime if violence actually took place AS A DIRECT RESULT of the incitement.
Hamzi was never tried for any violence that took place as a result of his actions.
"Basically trying to get someone to commit a crime is a crime in itself."
REally? Hey go rob a bank!. Did I just commit a crime?
"Sounds like you also don't like the UK (or at least the laws there)."
No I don't like the laws there. I don't think people should be jailed for speaking.
Nothing you say contricts anything I said. He was jailed for speaking. The so called "recruitment" was simply saying things. Did you read the article you linked to? Here are some quotes.
"In court the jury had to base their verdicts on a series of nine speeches caught on video and audio tape - speeches that the prosecution claimed showed Abu Hamza, the former imam of Finsbury Park mosque, encouraging people to murder and stirring up racial hatred."
The evidence consisted of nine speeches.
"Also found at the house was an Encyclopaedia of Afghani Jihad, which contained detailed advice on making bombs and recommended potential terrorists should choose targets like Big Ben, the Eiffel Tower and the Statue of Liberty to publicise their cause."
They found a book in his house.
"In total the jury was given some 600 pages of Abu Hamza's speeches to consider, and provided with a glossary of Arabic terms in order to understand the Islamic religious terms so often used in his sermons."
Once again he was convicted of saying things.
"This guy said (from the story linked) in regard to Jews that "They are enemies to one another and Allah has cursed them. This is why he sent Hitler for them." And that "Killing a Kafir who is fighting you is OK. Killing a Kafir for any reason, you can say it, it is OK - even if there is no reason for it," he says. (Kafir meaning non-muslim)."
Wow. Saying you should kill jews is now a crime in the UK. He didn't actually kill jews, he just said you should kill them. Meanwhile british troops were ACTUALLY killing muslims in Iraq.
What's worse, saying you should kill people or actually killing people?
"He is also wanted in the US under terrorism charges."
Why doesn't that surprise me.