would this imply that even if your congress would fully understand the problem and would be willing to kill software patents (hypotethical situation), such a decision would be prevented by all the cash flows that are based upon it ?
this looks very much like "producing for producing's sake", just to keep the wheel going.
oo.org compatibility with mso formats is surprisingly good (especially with latest versions), given that it is reverse engineered. oo.org developers probably have way better knowledge about those formats than ms engineers;)
additionally, most people have seen problems with different msoffice versions (and even the same version on different computers).
given the situation, you probably should agitate for opendocument - that would give you the choice between competing products and freedom to choose the one that has best price/performance ratio.
if you are ms customer, request odf support from ms;)
actually, this feature works relatively well between msoffice and oo.org (no help from microsoft, of course =) ). there are some small problems with transferring of changes that contain deleted numbering, but these cases are rare.
what probably is the biggest thing for most people, the management of comments/changes actually is more intuitive and better in msoffice:)
technically, they are very close, but display of comments and changes at the side of the document makes it easier to work with this functionality.
However, I'd like to see the instructions for making a server out of one box and keeping the rest of the local system synched to it made more widely available. You have to dig to find them, and I think they are a bit dated but I could reduce the 'client' count by 2 here at home by doing it.
i hope i have understood you correctly - if not, i am sorry:)
you get an ntp server with most if not all linux distributions. some of them offer easy gui config tools for ntp part. additionally you get a bunch of other software products that are useful for serving "things":)
most company (or home) networks i know have a single machine that gets the correct time and distributes it to all other machines on the network.
i can not find the information right now, but they had some usa funded research about computer where you just throw parts in a box and they communicate with short distance radio waves. removes all slots, thus requiring less space. i haven't heard anything more about that, though.
The thing is with Bugzilla, duplicate bugs is considered and annoyance, at the very least, even a huge time-sink by others.
of course they are. but if you have found a problem and want to file it quickly - with open bugzilla you can check immediately for the problem. if you have to wait for the answer on the forums (which won't be authoritative), it is easier to either file it away or not to file at all.
additionally, open bugzilla helps in dupe hunting - usually if i search for some annoyance and find a dupe i add a comment to one of issues indicating the other, so qa can immediately see that it is a dupe.
well, in opensource projects additionally volunteer qa helps a lot, this probably would be alot harder to pull by opera.
I think you'll like the result, when we get there
now you got me curious =) any timeframe, maybe ?;)
11) Bug tracking, developer tools and HTML/CSS/JS by smurfsurf (892933)
1. Opera Bug Tracking System My experience with Opera's bug tracking system are rather frustrating. I can not check if some bug is already known (describing a bug and creating a test case is time consuming). Also, I reported some things and never ever got any feedback besides an automatic email. I do not know if Opera considers it a bug, if it is not a bug but an error on my side, if someone works on it, if it was fixed, simply nothing comes back. The Opera BTS is a black hole, and since some time now, I do not feel like making the effort to report bugs.
Do you plan to open up the BTS or at least allow the submitter to view the ticket? Or enhance the feedback?
oooh. my question. thanks, smurfsurf, for asking:)
currently opera answer for duplicate bugs has been "go ask on forums". wtf ? i have found a problem (or so i think), so i go to bugzilla, do a quick search. if i do not find any issue dealing with this, i file a new one and get timely updates on this, other people can confirm my findings etc.
having an open bugzilla for opera would be HUGE. of course, there still will be internal issues/issues not available for everybody (see sun with openoffice or novell with opensuse), but let us help you;)
he mentioned that a operists (or something...) read slashdot - so know this, your users want to help you, but currently you are not accepting all the help;)
I hope that wasn't with a top-tier support contract they could offer you.
that was a subcontractor who was dealing with them, and i am not even sure what support options were available for those products. but they supposedly were official distributors, who have to work with the company a lot, and their response when we asked "wtf ? why aren't they telling you supported platforms for beta stage software ?" was "oh, that's the way things are around here..."
they were used to being fscked over even being the ones to make the impression, to sell the software.
now, your scenario had at least two things that point to oversights when developing and managing system (though i understand they are not uncommon, to say the least...) - and that's why i mentioned that the system should be developed carefully.
4. 20 of the 25 members of the crack squad quit for a better job offer.
unless they quit at the same day (which means something is screwed up in the company pretty much anyway), persons responsible should be able to cope with personnel leaving.
6. Turns out the documentation the crack squad wrote on all their code changes was incomplete or left out the "little hacks" that make the system work.
if you don't trust them, find somebody with very little experience in given system (or do it yourself) and tell them to _exactly_ follow the instructions for setting the system up from the scratch. if this can be done without a problem, then at least most important things should be documented. now, this has been stressed a lot - never create systems that can not be managed by somebody else. even if you have extreme loyalty and highest wages in the world, "accidents happen";> everybody plans hw replacements/failovers to a great degree of detail, but human factor which should be considered the most risky one is forgotten oh-so-often (and i am being guilty here, too).
the thing is, in this scenario system has been running without a glich since most of the team mysteriously left - that must be a good thing;). and if it fails so catastrophically, what guarantees do you have that vendor will fix it in a timely fashion, if at all ?
ok, let's phrase this a little differently - screw most big vendors:) if you have a previous experience or a company is known for being able to help their customers before they go out of business - go for it.
we just recently had a "situation" with a big, well known commercial vendor and their "enterprise" system.
the application supports only ancient operating system. and an unpatched version of it. nobody knows wether there will be a new version that would support something else.
then, without a warning, a new beta version is released. nobody knows wether this version will support a newer version of chosen operating system. support is silent.
public download is available. file, sized 1.5gb and containing "multiplatform" in the name. when finally downloaded, turns out, it contains only a version for a single platform. support does not respond to questions about versions/platforms supported (it is in beta already, remember).
and this is for a bloody PAYING CUSTOMER.
oh, installation of the software takes some 7 manual steps, each including a lot of obscure prompts and chances to screw something up. from 8 installations at the education lab _none_ is able to finish on the supported platform, there are no error messages. almost each install stalls at a unique point. the best was a finished installation that was unaccessible for unknown reason. of course, software is closed source, so good luck figuring out what is wrong.
screw big vendors. we have had similar experience with most of them - and problems are either solved inhouse, or we find ways to avoid them.
I think you'd be foolish to trust that the crew of experts you hired is going to stick around, and be able to solve any problem that comes up.
well, from my experience that is the only thing you can trust (of course, by designing systems both from technical and personnel viewpoint very carefuly). unless you can make or break their business, big vendors don't give a shit about your problems even if you are a paying customer.
now, it is somewhat different with all these linux vendors, i assume - you get a support (and, at least at this state, they are interested in solving problems fast and nice) and if the support is unable/unwilling to help you in required time, you can tap into internal resources or look for help elsewhere. i believe that should be a requirement for any serious information system.
CARS are PRETTY simple if you do not OPEN the HOOD, anyway - plenty of PEOPLE are driving CARS at age WELL below when you are ABLE to get a licence - JUST by knowing how TO turn a wheel or PRESS pedals
If I'm looking for a basic calculator I should find it under Calculator or Calc. KCalc is hard to find because I'm looking for a word that starts with C. I really don't care who made it or for what desktop it's for as long as I can find it and use it effectively and quickly.
fair enough. though note that there is an option (and i have seen that it is default for many distros) to have kde menu entries like this : description (name) (right click on a panel, configure panel->menus)
in this example we would get Scientific Calculator (KCalc)
not exactly starting with 'c', but should be easier to use for novices.
by the way, there is no way to show description only, so this makes it impossible to have a situation when one person opens 'media player' and it is a different one than at that other machine (though yes, i have seen distros that remove app names, at least for some shortcuts - i believe that is a mistake)
well, we don't get much waas coverage in europe and a default map for this region is rudimentary at best - there are almost no roads to lock to anyway. on average it caches 4 sats, 6 is GOOD:)
of course, i suppose getting help from egnos/waas and whatnot helps to get a good accuracy, but if you see these only for brief moments on a good day in a middle of the field...
i want gallileo and devices that can simultaneously track all available positioning systems (with some weighting, ability to switch them on/off manually etc. and cheap, which might not be so impossible if the demand for this technology once gallileo is up increases enough.
you don't get acceptable accuracy in europe. for example, garmin etrex legend is off by 5-30m while driving in a car, so plotting your trip in a map later shows that you misteriously have jumped over the river, continued some time on the other cost, then driven on the river and then back on the road.
oh, and actually independence from usa _is_ a big deal today. this technology is beckoming too important.
hoping that "you get what you pay for" will get a swarm of professional bloodsuckers that will make sure to sell you the most expensive plan, even you could get the same quality for much less.
and, adiitionally, i don't hear much "you can trust big systems to ms products" nowadays;) usually stories are quite opposite...
i guess, i would choose informative for moderation.
if some dork at ms decides to make such an offer, i really hope opera goes to google and offers to sell out to them (as was mentioned some time before).
i have no idea what that would to to the product, but i am sure that would be a lot better than ms.
i do not use pivot tables/data pilot, so i am not sure i even understood completely all your points - but have you tried searching for these thing in issuezille and commenting/voting in them ? and, if not found, submitting new issues, of course:)
the most important part of measures is opening up the information. that does not require developer time (well, unless they have no specs... in thast case they should say so), only the will to do that.
unbundling of certain media player - well, first, i don't think that reversing default installation of it would ask ms a lot more resources than it has took several other people who have done that. second, if ms would fully comply and release information mentioned previously, there would be much less fuss/fine about being late on unbundling (unless 'being late' was 'never').
and about what is feasible - start with small things like this (yes, this is a small thing). if market is still stiffled by the same company, if monopoly position is still abused, build up on measures. for good or not, i do not believe we will se any buildup, though.
as others have already mentioned, there are antimonopoly laws. of course, there are no scenarios written down for every possible situation - each case is individual. if i remember correctly, when two big banks want to merge and their common marketshare is bigger than 40% they already are forced to follow more rigoruos process. in a lot of other cases monopolies abuse their situation and regulators decide on measures to take in each situation.
in this situation it mostly is about "opening the api". that is, releasing the information for interoperability. not because there is a law like that, but because this is the decision in this particular monopoly abusion case.
also note that in your post you mixed up current eu demands with opening up ms source, which are two completely unrelated things. nobody has requested ms to do that (well, nobody with a feeling of reality) and current measures have nothing to say on this matter. some unbundling of product that was bundled only recently, but that is _not_ the hardest part for ms or the important one for eu citizens.
information on interoperability is, as that would allow competition in this field that has stagnated for som many years. americans like to pose as protectors of free market, when actually they have a market controlled by big corporations. in case os computer software it is a single corporation and instead of realising that there is no competition, no free market, in spite of repeated abuses of their position - americans defend ms actions. is it because that is an american company ? that is understandable in the case of "ms vs eu", but what about bending of american institutions in ms antimonopoly case ?
so, to repeat. in this case a clear monopoly position in market has been maintained for a lot of years. abusing of this position to gain new markets has been like every day walk. there are companies who have been hit by antimonopoly measures for a _lot_ less than this. now, when one of the biggest visible monopolies is slightly tackled, there are people who question the very fact itself, not particular measure or whatnot. at best, i can write that off at ignorance. (and sorry for calling you troll without expanding on my thoughts;) )
Slashdot Mirror
With much reluctance they went in the dumpster a few years back.
somewhere in the wild world, an apple fan committed a suicide
would this imply that even if your congress would fully understand the problem and would be willing to kill software patents (hypotethical situation), such a decision would be prevented by all the cash flows that are based upon it ?
this looks very much like "producing for producing's sake", just to keep the wheel going.
While this judge's message may seem absurd
i believe, most people here think us patent system is the one that is absurd.
oo.org compatibility with mso formats is surprisingly good (especially with latest versions), given that it is reverse engineered. oo.org developers probably have way better knowledge about those formats than ms engineers ;)
;)
additionally, most people have seen problems with different msoffice versions (and even the same version on different computers).
given the situation, you probably should agitate for opendocument - that would give you the choice between competing products and freedom to choose the one that has best price/performance ratio.
if you are ms customer, request odf support from ms
actually, this feature works relatively well between msoffice and oo.org (no help from microsoft, of course =) ).
:)
3 465
:)
there are some small problems with transferring of changes that contain deleted numbering, but these cases are rare.
what probably is the biggest thing for most people, the management of comments/changes actually is more intuitive and better in msoffice
technically, they are very close, but display of comments and changes at the side of the document makes it easier to work with this functionality.
there is an issue about this functionality :
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2
maybe you should consider registering (if you haven't yet) and voting on this issue
However, I'd like to see the instructions for making a server out of one box and keeping the rest of the local system synched to it made more widely available. You have to dig to find them, and I think they are a bit dated but I could reduce the 'client' count by 2 here at home by doing it.
:)
:)
i hope i have understood you correctly - if not, i am sorry
you get an ntp server with most if not all linux distributions. some of them offer easy gui config tools for ntp part. additionally you get a bunch of other software products that are useful for serving "things"
most company (or home) networks i know have a single machine that gets the correct time and distributes it to all other machines on the network.
i can not find the information right now, but they had some usa funded research about computer where you just throw parts in a box and they communicate with short distance radio waves.
removes all slots, thus requiring less space.
i haven't heard anything more about that, though.
...is science lab.
:>
science is all good, but somewhat this seems slightly sick
Kazuya Ikematsu and his colleagues anesthetized and then killed two small groups of mice, by either strangulation with a string, or by decapitation.
The thing is with Bugzilla, duplicate bugs is considered and annoyance, at the very least, even a huge time-sink by others.
;)
of course they are. but if you have found a problem and want to file it quickly - with open bugzilla you can check immediately for the problem. if you have to wait for the answer on the forums (which won't be authoritative), it is easier to either file it away or not to file at all.
additionally, open bugzilla helps in dupe hunting - usually if i search for some annoyance and find a dupe i add a comment to one of issues indicating the other, so qa can immediately see that it is a dupe.
well, in opensource projects additionally volunteer qa helps a lot, this probably would be alot harder to pull by opera.
I think you'll like the result, when we get there
now you got me curious =)
any timeframe, maybe ?
if i was living there, i just might call and express my opinion...
shareholders might, just might, have some ethical principles.
few do, though.
11) Bug tracking, developer tools and HTML/CSS/JS
:)
;)
;)
by smurfsurf (892933)
1. Opera Bug Tracking System My experience with Opera's bug tracking system are rather frustrating. I can not check if some bug is already known (describing a bug and creating a test case is time consuming). Also, I reported some things and never ever got any feedback besides an automatic email. I do not know if Opera considers it a bug, if it is not a bug but an error on my side, if someone works on it, if it was fixed, simply nothing comes back. The Opera BTS is a black hole, and since some time now, I do not feel like making the effort to report bugs.
Do you plan to open up the BTS or at least allow the submitter to view the ticket? Or enhance the feedback?
oooh. my question. thanks, smurfsurf, for asking
currently opera answer for duplicate bugs has been "go ask on forums". wtf ? i have found a problem (or so i think), so i go to bugzilla, do a quick search. if i do not find any issue dealing with this, i file a new one and get timely updates on this, other people can confirm my findings etc.
having an open bugzilla for opera would be HUGE.
of course, there still will be internal issues/issues not available for everybody (see sun with openoffice or novell with opensuse), but let us help you
he mentioned that a operists (or something...) read slashdot - so know this, your users want to help you, but currently you are not accepting all the help
I hope that wasn't with a top-tier support contract they could offer you.
;>
;). and if it fails so catastrophically, what guarantees do you have that vendor will fix it in a timely fashion, if at all ?
:)
that was a subcontractor who was dealing with them, and i am not even sure what support options were available for those products. but they supposedly were official distributors, who have to work with the company a lot, and their response when we asked "wtf ? why aren't they telling you supported platforms for beta stage software ?" was "oh, that's the way things are around here..."
they were used to being fscked over even being the ones to make the impression, to sell the software.
now, your scenario had at least two things that point to oversights when developing and managing system (though i understand they are not uncommon, to say the least...) - and that's why i mentioned that the system should be developed carefully.
4. 20 of the 25 members of the crack squad quit for a better job offer.
unless they quit at the same day (which means something is screwed up in the company pretty much anyway), persons responsible should be able to cope with personnel leaving.
6. Turns out the documentation the crack squad wrote on all their code changes was incomplete or left out the "little hacks" that make the system work.
if you don't trust them, find somebody with very little experience in given system (or do it yourself) and tell them to _exactly_ follow the instructions for setting the system up from the scratch. if this can be done without a problem, then at least most important things should be documented.
now, this has been stressed a lot - never create systems that can not be managed by somebody else. even if you have extreme loyalty and highest wages in the world, "accidents happen"
everybody plans hw replacements/failovers to a great degree of detail, but human factor which should be considered the most risky one is forgotten oh-so-often (and i am being guilty here, too).
the thing is, in this scenario system has been running without a glich since most of the team mysteriously left - that must be a good thing
ok, let's phrase this a little differently - screw most big vendors
if you have a previous experience or a company is known for being able to help their customers before they go out of business - go for it.
we just recently had a "situation" with a big, well known commercial vendor and their "enterprise" system.
the application supports only ancient operating system. and an unpatched version of it. nobody knows wether there will be a new version that would support something else.
then, without a warning, a new beta version is released. nobody knows wether this version will support a newer version of chosen operating system. support is silent.
public download is available. file, sized 1.5gb and containing "multiplatform" in the name. when finally downloaded, turns out, it contains only a version for a single platform. support does not respond to questions about versions/platforms supported (it is in beta already, remember).
and this is for a bloody PAYING CUSTOMER.
oh, installation of the software takes some 7 manual steps, each including a lot of obscure prompts and chances to screw something up. from 8 installations at the education lab _none_ is able to finish on the supported platform, there are no error messages. almost each install stalls at a unique point. the best was a finished installation that was unaccessible for unknown reason. of course, software is closed source, so good luck figuring out what is wrong.
screw big vendors. we have had similar experience with most of them - and problems are either solved inhouse, or we find ways to avoid them.
I think you'd be foolish to trust that the crew of experts you hired is going to stick around, and be able to solve any problem that comes up.
well, from my experience that is the only thing you can trust (of course, by designing systems both from technical and personnel viewpoint very carefuly). unless you can make or break their business, big vendors don't give a shit about your problems even if you are a paying customer.
now, it is somewhat different with all these linux vendors, i assume - you get a support (and, at least at this state, they are interested in solving problems fast and nice) and if the support is unable/unwilling to help you in required time, you can tap into internal resources or look for help elsewhere. i believe that should be a requirement for any serious information system.
you know something is wrong when i am not sure wether this was a joke picking at "next windows version will have IT !11"
CARS are PRETTY simple if you do not OPEN the HOOD, anyway - plenty of PEOPLE are driving CARS at age WELL below when you are ABLE to get a licence - JUST by knowing how TO turn a wheel or PRESS pedals
If I'm looking for a basic calculator I should find it under Calculator or Calc. KCalc is hard to find because I'm looking for a word that starts with C. I really don't care who made it or for what desktop it's for as long as I can find it and use it effectively and quickly.
fair enough. though note that there is an option (and i have seen that it is default for many distros) to have kde menu entries like this :
description (name)
(right click on a panel, configure panel->menus)
in this example we would get
Scientific Calculator (KCalc)
not exactly starting with 'c', but should be easier to use for novices.
by the way, there is no way to show description only, so this makes it impossible to have a situation when one person opens 'media player' and it is a different one than at that other machine (though yes, i have seen distros that remove app names, at least for some shortcuts - i believe that is a mistake)
well, we don't get much waas coverage in europe and a default map for this region is rudimentary at best - there are almost no roads to lock to anyway. :)
on average it caches 4 sats, 6 is GOOD
of course, i suppose getting help from egnos/waas and whatnot helps to get a good accuracy, but if you see these only for brief moments on a good day in a middle of the field...
i want gallileo and devices that can simultaneously track all available positioning systems (with some weighting, ability to switch them on/off manually etc. and cheap, which might not be so impossible if the demand for this technology once gallileo is up increases enough.
seems to be a mistake in summary - in article i could find only "High accuracy at the cm scale" which isn't exactly 1cm
you don't get acceptable accuracy in europe. for example, garmin etrex legend is off by 5-30m while driving in a car, so plotting your trip in a map later shows that you misteriously have jumped over the river, continued some time on the other cost, then driven on the river and then back on the road.
oh, and actually independence from usa _is_ a big deal today. this technology is beckoming too important.
well, this is their own list, but hey, it has some names...
;)l -database.html
;)
http://www.mysql.com/why-mysql/case-studies/
then there's this story
http://xooglers.blogspot.com/2005/12/lets-get-rea
hoping that "you get what you pay for" will get a swarm of professional bloodsuckers that will make sure to sell you the most expensive plan, even you could get the same quality for much less.
and, adiitionally, i don't hear much "you can trust big systems to ms products" nowadays
usually stories are quite opposite...
i guess, i would choose informative for moderation.
if some dork at ms decides to make such an offer, i really hope opera goes to google and offers to sell out to them (as was mentioned some time before).
i have no idea what that would to to the product, but i am sure that would be a lot better than ms.
i do not use pivot tables/data pilot, so i am not sure i even understood completely all your points - but have you tried searching for these thing in issuezille and commenting/voting in them ? and, if not found, submitting new issues, of course :)
the most important part of measures is opening up the information. that does not require developer time (well, unless they have no specs... in thast case they should say so), only the will to do that.
unbundling of certain media player - well, first, i don't think that reversing default installation of it would ask ms a lot more resources than it has took several other people who have done that. second, if ms would fully comply and release information mentioned previously, there would be much less fuss/fine about being late on unbundling (unless 'being late' was 'never').
and about what is feasible - start with small things like this (yes, this is a small thing). if market is still stiffled by the same company, if monopoly position is still abused, build up on measures.
for good or not, i do not believe we will se any buildup, though.
as others have already mentioned, there are antimonopoly laws. of course, there are no scenarios written down for every possible situation - each case is individual. if i remember correctly, when two big banks want to merge and their common marketshare is bigger than 40% they already are forced to follow more rigoruos process. in a lot of other cases monopolies abuse their situation and regulators decide on measures to take in each situation.
;) )
in this situation it mostly is about "opening the api". that is, releasing the information for interoperability. not because there is a law like that, but because this is the decision in this particular monopoly abusion case.
also note that in your post you mixed up current eu demands with opening up ms source, which are two completely unrelated things. nobody has requested ms to do that (well, nobody with a feeling of reality) and current measures have nothing to say on this matter. some unbundling of product that was bundled only recently, but that is _not_ the hardest part for ms or the important one for eu citizens.
information on interoperability is, as that would allow competition in this field that has stagnated for som many years. americans like to pose as protectors of free market, when actually they have a market controlled by big corporations. in case os computer software it is a single corporation and instead of realising that there is no competition, no free market, in spite of repeated abuses of their position - americans defend ms actions. is it because that is an american company ? that is understandable in the case of "ms vs eu", but what about bending of american institutions in ms antimonopoly case ?
so, to repeat. in this case a clear monopoly position in market has been maintained for a lot of years. abusing of this position to gain new markets has been like every day walk. there are companies who have been hit by antimonopoly measures for a _lot_ less than this. now, when one of the biggest visible monopolies is slightly tackled, there are people who question the very fact itself, not particular measure or whatnot.
at best, i can write that off at ignorance. (and sorry for calling you troll without expanding on my thoughts