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Earbud Headphones May Cause Hearing Loss
benr writes "According to an AP report, the earbud headphones that are so popular for ipods and other portable devices may lead to hearing loss. From the article: "The big culprits aren't the devices themselves, but the tiny 'ear bud' style headphones that the music players use. 'Unfortunately, the earbuds are even more likely to cause hearing loss than the muff-type earphones that were used on Walkman and portable CD players'""
I had some old earbud headphones in which the left earbud was dead, and didn't have the time/money to buy new ones. I used them for months with my CD Player, and when I finally did get new headphones, I found my right-ear isn't as good as it use to be. I got new ones about 2 months ago, but my ear still isn't at "peak efficiency". Won't make that mistake twice.
google.slashdot
This is hardly news; for years, headphones have been known to cause hearing loss, and ear buds are merely the extreme expression of this kind of problem. Recently in September 2005 there was a flurry of articles about this issue, according to a quick google search.
There's evidence of a general decline in hearing sensitivity in movie theatres and airplanes. The intensity of airplane overhead speaker volume has recently become almost painful to my ears, and it seems to be consistent across different airlines. Movie theatres as well have cranked up the volume. I find myself covering my ears during the previews, which tend to have intense, compressed action with a lot of music and narrative to pump up the adrenaline. Generally when the main feature begins the sound volume settles down a bit but it can still be worrisomely loud.
I am worried that we in the U.S. are becoming a nation of half-deaf electronic addicts, cranking our headsets and PA systems ever louder to compensate, perhaps unknowingly, for our diminishing sensitivity to sound.
I only hope that ENT doctors and researchers continue to find ways to repair the ear's mechanisms and perhaps develop nerve repair techniques or we're gonna have a huge population of elderly deaf people 50 years from now (with commensurate increase in volume of PA systems etc.).
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
say what?!
Loud stuff hurts ears.
... and they are also very uncomfortable.
If bands starting churning out some decent music for a change, we wouldn't have to worry about hearing loss...it has NOTHING to do with the volume levels. Last time I checked, too much crap in the ear caused hearing loss just as readily has high decibel levels.
This issue basically boils down to common sense. If you listen to your music at excessively high volume, you will eventually suffer hearing loss. People also need to realize that their hearing adapts to different sound levels. European iPods ship with a volume limiter for this reason.
The article talks about people cranking their earbuds up to 115dB. Obviously if you listen to music that doesn't suck so bad that you have to distort it to pieces to stand listening to it, you won't have this problem. It's basically another sensationalist article about how listening to music turned up too loud will make you go deaf.
I read the internet for the articles.
Familiar?
TFA describes the in-ear headphones as being less capable at blocking ambient noise than the "earmuff" style phones. That leads me to believe they're actually talking about the old school in-ear phones, the kind that just sort of hang in your ears. Newer ones, like the Sony Fontopia in-ear designs, actually fit all the way into your ear canal. These actually are pretty good at blocking out exterior noises -- in fact, they take some getting used to. If they're going to lead to hearing loss, it's probably because of the amazing bass response for such small phones. I don't work for Sony -- there are other, similar brands on the market, but the Sonys are the only ones I've used.
Breakfast served all day!
The big culprits aren't the devices themselves, but the tiny 'ear bud' style headphones that the music players use.
Is it the design of the headphones, or the design of the headphones combined with people listening to their music at higher levels than usual?
" In a study published last year in the journal Ear and Hearing, researchers at Harvard Medical School looked at a variety of headphones and found that, on average, the smaller they were, the higher their output levels at any given volume-control setting. And other studies have shown that because the tiny phones inserted into the ears are not as efficient at blocking outside sounds as the cushioned headsets, users tend to crank up the volume to compensate."
So the problem isn't a technological one, but a psychological one. I'm guessing the in-ear phones like the ones made by Etymotic wouldn't be subject to this phenomenon.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Oh, gee. Guns may kill people, too. It is not something inherent in the earbuds, but the fact that people drive them louder.
The rule of thumb suggested by researchers at Boston Children's Hospital is to hold the volume of a music player no higher than 60 percent of the maximum, and use it for only about an hour a day.
What a load. Obviously this is a worthless piece of advice, since "the maximum" is not a constant across all sound-producing devices.
There is no news here. Slashdot: shit for idiots like g0at who dubiously choose to read articles over christmas break instead of going to bed earlier.
-b
myselfmusic
Your head is nothing without a good pair of muffs on it. (In my opinion...)
I suggest you read Slashdot
I've never heard of such a thing!
*snicker*
So then the question is: are there headphones that a) don't look ridiculous (like the cushioned ones), b) are comfortable, c) block out noise, and d) sound good?
/.ers found that fit these criteria? I'm currently using the in-ear buds that came with my Rio Karma. They sound pretty good, and they're comfortable (even though I lost the foam covers), but I do have to turn them up quite loud to hear the music well.
What have
CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
I'll admit it - I didn't rtfa, but here's my thoughts on all of these "X will make you go deaf" stories:
Yes, if you keep making things louder and louder, eventually you're going to experience hearing loss. Additionally, in my personal experience, listening to something in only one ear (like a cell phone, or a single-side headset) it will be much louder if the other ear isn't blocked (y'know, by sticking a finger in it), or listening to the same stuff.
I disagree with the blanket statements like "earbud heaphones cause hearing loss", though. I've been using a pair of Etymotic ER6i headphones (yes, they're earbuds), but the work on the concept of isolation from other outside noises. Think of a foam earplug with a decent heaphone in the center. Using those, I find I'm actually enjoying the quiet, and tend to play my music at a much *lower* volume than I would with more open headphones.
I'll create an amusing sig when I have something meaningful to post.
The rule of thumb I've been using at college: if the bus/heater/conversation/etc. is so loud that I can't hear my music over it, the iPod goes off.
Unfortunately, no one seems to pay attention to articles like these. I've heard plenty of music that's being played much too loud; the best example so far was hearing music from the study cubicle next door with both doors closed and my iPod on. To be fair, the tops are open, but that's not much of a comfort.
I worry sometimes, even though I don't really need to. It turns out that I usually use the lower (and occasionally lowest) volume settings, and I can hear just fine with them. Even as I type, though, I can feel my right ear ringing ever so slightly...and I'm praying that it's just the congestion that my allergies brings on.
If nothing else, though, you can be sure that someone's going to find a way to treat or possibly reverse hearing loss. If they don't, then America's just going to fall behind the rest of the world in yet another category.
Goo goo g'joob.
Even our wonderful ears can only stand so much britney spears.
DYWYPI?
No matter how loud you can crank your stereo, several months of a crying baby in your house will make you appreciate the little bit of the quiet time you get.
Earbuds are used so commonplace, despite these warnings, because they're stylish in a way and they're more portable and sturdy than standard earmuff-style headphones. I can put my MP3 player and earbuds in my pocket or backpack and be less concerned about their volume or safety compared to a pair of plastic headphones.
You would think that earbuds would better insulate your music in your ear, but not by my experience. The only time I turn up my music is when I'm in a loud place like on the bus or in a crowded building. Yes that probably elevates the problem but that's because they're not noise canceling, that is, if any such earbuds exist.
I couldn't hear the article, could you please repost it?
Video Production Support
What was that?
A lot of people listen to earbuds (or muffin headphones) the same way they listen to the car radio: volume crank sky high so everyone in the neighborhood can hear them go by. So if I can hear your earbuds across the room, your personal volume is TOO DAMN LOUD. Go figure.
I only ask this cynically. We have people suing for spilling coffee on themselves and for smoking too many cigarettes. Will someone take advantage of this and then try to claim Apple (and other companies possibly) are responsible for their hearing loss? Where do we draw the line?
Crap Music
Especially if bass line can be heard from the otherside of the road. Even if you don't burst your ear drums, I am sure the brain cells responsible for the ears will commit suicide in an attempt to further streamline the brain. Who needs a million brain cells to interpret music that goes "doof doof", "doof doof".
If I can do it, its probably not worth doing... probably
This is hardly new, and I'm not just talking about the fact that loud stuff hurts your ears. I'm talking earbuds - they are far from new. Everyone remember the amazing earbuds that shipped with the original Game Boy (for those younger than like 16, the really old gray one that was, like, thick as four iPods and as long as two side by side or more)? I just love how we (meaning society) like to blame things like this on whatever is new, when the same thing was plenty available in the past. And, no, the iPod has not sold more than the Game Boy...
Researchers also reported that eating too much sugar makes you fat, smoking can make you cough, and using Microsoft products can lead to security concerns.
Seriously, do we need to be told that loud noise can lead to hearing loss? Are we so dumb that they need to dredge up a story that first ran with the invention of the Walkman?
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
What!? Yes, yes! I had one of those long ago, but the front wheel fell off! Yes! Say again!? Yes, yes! ...
Oh well, what the hell...
If you had good earbuds, and there wasn't anything to drown out, the music would sound better at lower volumes. The answer is to drown out the external noise with passive dampening.
Put shooters hearing protection on over your earbuds. All earmuff style headphones should be built with ~25dB+ sound dampening gel inserts. I always judge headphones by how quiet they are when unplugged compared to the ambient noise level of the room. The better the headphones, the more noise they tolerate at ZERO power. Then the sound quality from the drivers takes effect: but only as a secondary factor. If I only listened to headphones in a noise-controlled environment, then I could probably just use a real stereo.
--- Nothing clever here: move along now...
new slogan:
"Play it not so loud, 90 decibels or less is preferred."
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
'Unfortunately, the earbuds are even more likely to cause hearing loss than the muff-type earphones that were used on Walkman and portable CD players' This is bullshit. The size of earphones don't mean anything but the type. If the huge muff-type earphones are sound isolating, then I'd say they are safer because you can listen to your music at a much lower volume. Same goes for the earbuds that are in-ear design like etymotics and shure's. Since it isolates outside sound, you don't need to crank the volume at an insane level. That being said, I love it when i hop on the bus or subway and I hear this music coming from someone's earphones, so friggin loud that everyone sitting can hear. They are so going deaf. If we can hear your music, there's a problem and you better fix it unless you want to use a huge funnel and stick that in your ear.
stop digging dig.com and come up with your own stuff. (and yes, I am willing to sacrifice my dear karma for this)
I am only 38 and have a bad case of Tinnitus. For those lucky bastards who don't---look it up and take very seriously the amount of noise you get. I work downtown in a LARGE city and I always put in earplugs when I am walking to lunch for an hour or so. I started doing that after taking a decibel meter outside with me one day. Amazing how loud life is now.
The report's claims must be using incredibly cheap phones. Any decent pair of canalphones (see: Shure, Etymotic, Ultimate Ears) will isolate much better than any other pair of headphones out there, allowing the use of lower volumes and an overall reduction of hearing damage/loss. Even the lousy iPod headphones provide better isolation than most cheap headphones in their pricerange nowadays. Will they isolate as well as a Sennheiser HD-280 or a pair of canalphones? No. But they hardly isolate "much worse" than other phones.
digg.com owns stories written by the associated press?
My ENT says (jokingly) "earbuds are great - they are going to pay for me to retire". This, just before I was tested (left ear normal, right ear SLIGHT rolloff, but normal for my age- yeah, I'm in my mid 40s) - there was a young kid in front of me - he had just gotten the bad news - he was going to need hearing aids - in his late teens - attributed to way too much LOUD noise.
The ENT was saying - if someone standing next to you in a quiet room can hear the music - it TOO loud
I have good in ear phones - and wear phones because of some other hobbies - but at reasonible volumes - I know the exact day I got that roll of in the right ear - I was dumb - Now, I always have a pair of foam earplugs with me - always - and I'm NOT afraid to put them in (carry an old altoids tin with "handy stuff" in it - bandaides, some meds, a spare $20, some coins, the earplugs, a lighter, etc)
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
People would rather listen to crap quality music with small, shitty, trendy "earphones" than carry around a proper pair of headphones because they're "too big" or "geeky" or some other such crap.
I always have foam earplugs with me. The rule of thumb is to use them whenever you need to shout to be heard. Too many rock concerts, too much circular sawing, too much chainsawing. Protect your hearing; your ears don't heal very well and once damaged beyond a certain point, NEVER recovers. It sucks when everybody around you mumbles.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
that using earbuds when watching porn will make me blind and deaf?
How can the Associated Press and its editors find a new news story out of something that has been publicized since the 1940s?
m
To what extent and in what form should the news media re-teach readers basic life lessons (eat a balanced diet, exercise, drink in moderation, don't listen to loud music, etc.)?
How should the press segregate news so that the average reader does not get lowest common denomiator news (e.g., things aimed at those that don't know better or are 5 years old or younger)?
Begin Quote from: "The History of Audiology" http://www.asha.org/public/hearing/aud_history.ht
The History of Audiology
The profession of audiology had its origins in the 1920s when audiometers were first designed for measuring hearing. Interest in this profession surged in the 1940s when soldiers returned from World War II with noise induced hearing loss due to near-by gunfire or to prolonged and unprotected exposure to machinery noise. Others had psychogenic (non-organic) hearing loss as a result of severe emotional and mental stress. The Veterans Administration took a lead role in providing hearing testing and rehabilitation through hearing aids, auditory training, and speechreading (lipreading) programs.
Since the 1940s and 1950s, the study of hearing, hearing loss, and audiologic rehabilitation has escalated and expanded. New tests of hearing have been developed including evaluations of functions of the outer ear, middle ear, cochlea, acoustic nerve, and related brain areas. Techniques using physiologic measurements that were in the research stages 20-30 years ago are now routine.
Modern technology and computerization have dramatically influenced hearing aids. Hearing aids have changed from "boxes" in shirt pockets and "cords" to the ear to highly sophisticated "completely-in-the-ear canal" aids. Virtually any kind of hearing loss can be improved by a hearing aid. Cochlear implants are increasingly common and successful. Through cochlear implantation, a destroyed or damaged cochlea can be by-passed and the acoustic nerve can be stimulated directly.
Today, audiologists and the practice of audiology have widespread visibility. Audiology has a presence in public schools, health care centers, private practices, nursing homes, community agencies, the military, hospitals. colleges and universities, hearing aid dispensing centers, hearing and speech centers. They test hearing and listening ability; they fit hearing aids and assistive listening devices; they provide training and rehabilitation programs for individuals with hearing and listening disorders; they participate on health care and educational teams tp plan and provide the most appropriate services.
These headphones have been around for at least 20 years. I remember using them with my Walkman before portable CD players existed. The article summary is a little off there, making it seem like this is a new problem.
Back then I heard how the headphones would cause deafness. This is no doubt true, but I wonder how different they are from the larger style headphones in this respect. Should be easy to test this properly - all we need are some headphones, a reference frequency with volume control, a dB meter and a model of the Human ear.
What you want is a sinewave sweep from 10Hz to about 18KHz over a period of about 60 seconds. You can create this in numerous ways using a synthesiser or sound application but probably one of the simplest ways is thus: Create a new file in Cooledit or Wavelab of 60s. From the Generate menu choose a sinewave and set the start frequency to 10Hz and the final frequency to 20,000Hz. This is a linear sweep, a better method would be with a log sweep but the linear one will suffice for a quick test.
The hearing test:
Find a quiet room without too much traffic noise etc.
Place the position marker in the middle of the file where the frequency is about 1KHz (Read this off in spectral view if you want to be more accurate)
Play a little section and turn the volume down until you can no longer hear it, then back up just a fraction so that you can hear it again.
Now play the entire sweep and using a pen draw a line across some paper as a rough graph showing how loud you think
the sound is. If the sound vanishes but then returns again make a break in the line to indicate this.
Repeat this at a higher volume, and again a third time at a quite high volume.
Results:
High end decays gradually and flattens off but you can still feintly hear it. Turning up the volume gives the same graph but you can hear te high frequencies a bit better.
Diagnosis: Ear Wax - go to your doctor and ask about getting it removed
High end stops abruptly. No matter how loud you play it you can't hear above 10k but there is a 'sensation' still.
Your ears hurt a bit and sometimes feel like they are full of fluid.
Diagnosis: Internal pressure on the tympanic membrane. You may have an infection which can be treated with antibiotics
This is worth noting because blocking the ear all day with buds, sharing ear buds etc can be a cause of this.
Mid range 2-5KHz stops but higher frequencies come back , there is basically a big dip in your hearing spectrum.
Diagnosis: Outer ear damage, of the hammer-anvil transfer part. If you are young the ear may correct itself with time. Stop listening to loud music NOW.
Odd dips where some frequencies completely disappear, but most of the range is still intact.
Diagnosis: Possible neurological damage of the cochlea. You should see a doctor immediately as it may indicate a number of more serious things. This indicates ongoing hearing loss, if you smoke stop now, get your blood pressure checked too.
For older people this is permanent, although your brain can cleverly adapt to fill in the gaps those nerves are dead. If you are really quite young (teenager) then you might get some of this back after treatment.
Missing low frequencies up to 200-500Hz
Diagnosis: Over volume damage, your ears are getting blasted by noises far too loud and you may have damage in the outer and inner ear. This is usually permanant.
Context:
How to interpret this depends on age. If you are over 30 expect a falloff above 15Kz in any event. If you are over 40
you can expect a natural loss above 8kHz too. The time frame over which it happens is very important. Generally you don't notice slow changes in hearing ability, but if do notice a sudden drop go to a doctor immediately and get a proper test. Many illnesses that cause ear damage are accumulative and ongoing, there is no substitute for early treatment .
Disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor, this is not medical advice. I am a music producer with an interest in audiology
and audio perception. If in doubt go to a professional and get it checked out.
Incidently, I am very concerned about the effects of mobile phones on hearing, the statistics on increased early hearing loss may well be due to other things as well as high volume music.
From the article: "The rule of thumb suggested by researchers at Boston Children's Hospital is to hold the volume of a music player no higher than 60 percent of the maximum"
So these "researchers" think that the following aspects of consumer electronics are all standardized or constant enough to stake children's hearing on some magical "60 percent" setting?
* power and efficiency of each device's headphone amplifier
* gain of each model's volume control
* efficiency of each model of headphone/earbud
Spreading advice like that is reckless and potentially false security.
Bomb Blast Victim
As I've had it explained to me, these tiny little earbuds cause large spikes in pressure - espicially when they're turned up to high volumes, and this pressure doesn't escape. The same also applies to sealed headphones. For true bassheads, this pressure buildup is a good thing as it helps with bass response. It also damages the little bits in your ears. The solution (assuming that turning your music down isn't too much to ask, 115 db is deafening no matter what you're listening to) is to buy open-aire phones. Of course, some people don't like those because their loud music "leaks" out and bothers others around them. And it's harder to get really loud bass response out of them. I'm not an expert on any of this, but I bought myself headphones for christmas this year, so I've been reading a bit.
Not surprisingly, sealed headphones and earbuds are also responsible for many ear infections. That one I'm pretty sure of.
"I do a grep for shit, bollocks, and tits before checking in code. I'm professional..." -RECURSIVE_META_JOKE, reddit.com
Seriously folks, listen to music at quieter volumes and you should be fine regardless of headphone type.
I thought the "headphones" that come with the iPods are "earphones."
: www.avland.co.uk/beyer/dtx20/dtx20lrg.jpg
: www.turntablelab.com/headphones/pics/sony-
Earphones: http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:VVjQqCzDOcoJ
Headphones: http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:3gBOP5ZlJiIJ
THOSE are headphones.
Besides...Wearing earphones hurts your ears more than headphones because the earphones blast sound into your ear while headphones blast sound OUTSIDE of your ear. Though...it wouldn't make a difference if you're the type that turns up the volume up to the max all of the time.
They go in your ear, which is great. But they don't really block out any background noise. When I'm on a plane, I find myself cranking the volume on my iPod to at least 90% so I can hear the music. Don't get me wrong, I can hear it at lower volumes, but the noise from the plane drowns out much of the less prominent stuff (background instruments, sounds, etc).
Everyone seems to really like the Shure E2C buds. They have a chart on their site that shows how much ambient noise they block, and it's even more than those Bose (or other brands) noise cancelling headphones. I'm not so sure about the noise cancelling phone either. They block out background noise, with what?? More noise. It's an opposing phase though, but it would be interesting to see what kind of effect this would have on the SPL.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Don't listen to an iPod or other music player on a airplane. The volume that the music would need to be would be astronomical, on top of the already-very-loud engine noise. Myself, I've been using earplugs when I fly for years.
As someone who works in the live audio industry, it pains me to see the people who stand directly in front of the speakers with no protection. Hearing loss is permanent and unpleasant. It's not something that just comes back.
Flying the other day, the guy sitting two seats across from me had his iPod turned up so loud that I could hear the drum rolls clearly, despite having 27dB drop earplugs in. For comparison's sake, when I listened (without the earplugs) to music for a little while when I worked on some code, I used a pair of Sony cheapie headphones. Held six inches from me, I couldn't hear the music above the noise of the airplane (again, without the earplugs).
The use of loud audio sources, both with portable audio devices and cell phones (I can often hear the sending side of a cell phone conversation from 15 feet away) is going to cause significant damage to the hearing of the "with it" generation.
For those curious why people are so intent on damaging their hearing, I'll give two facts:
1. People associate louder sound as being more impressive.
2. (partially related to 1) People perceive louder sound differently than softer sound. Our hearing system changes its frequency response based on how loud the source is, refered to as the Fletcher-Munson Curve(s).
The bottom line? Be aware of how loud you're listening to audio sources and protect yourself. Tinnitus is horrible (ringing in the ears), but it's also common to suffer damage in the 3-6 KHz range, where much of the understandability of speech is, leading to the situation of being able to hear but not make out what someone is saying. Turn down your cell phone and personal audio device, as well as your car stereo. If you're curious just how loud the audio in you life is, an SPL meter can easily be aquired at your local Rat Shack or online source. You might be surprised.
"European iPods ship with a volume limiter"
Another proof that USA is the land of unlimited options.
Obviously, we need more muff-type devices! I mean really, what problem couldn't be solved by making things more muff-like?
...If we will encounter the same problem when we finally figure out how to replace the analog headphones with direct nerve stimulation. Assuming that the hearing loss observed in the study was due to hair cell damage (most common from loud noise), the point of damage would be eliminated. I have to assume that there is an upper limit to the direct nerve stimulation as well. I wonder though, would the listener be able to tolerate levels high enough to do damage to the nerves themselves?
uW
...this high quality speaker system made just for the 5G iPods. Only $3 at your local Goodwill. http://politicalstage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1 05
I use those in-ear headphones or whatever they're called, and last I went for a hearing check (~1year ago), my hearing was WAY over the average, that lady hadn't ever seen anything like that in 12 years she said... Perhaps it's as anectodal evidence as yours. Perhaps just cranking loud music in one of your ears made it worse than the other? And as for the "over-ears" headphones (those big muffs or whatever you wanna call them), they're not quite as loud, so of course they won't do as much damange...
This whole thing seems rather obvious...
If people would turn off their ipods and remove the earbuds every now and again. I guess when you have 40GB of music you have to listen to it all continuously or something.
This article is spot on. Two weeks ago, I started listening to a continuous sound, high in pitch, all day and all night. I've gone to two doctors, gone through some tests, and yes, unfortunately, I have damage in the middle and inner ears. I'm unable to hear the highest frequencies, and ironically, that makes me hear, or "feel", this high freq sound 24/7. I'm under treatment now, but the loss may be irreversable. I'm just 40, and until recently, used to listen to Beethoven at the highest volumes, mostly at work. Even the best music can hurt you. :-$
So kids, heed my words and when listening to, whatever! with earbuds, be very careful.
Uncle Greg
is that if you want to save your ears, you will. That means being careful of the volume of your players, wearing ear protection or covering your ears around loud noise, and not being a damn fool.
I've been to so many places where the PA system is so loud I had to ask people to turn it down. I couldn't care less if they can't hear it, since they've probably killed their hearing by having it so loud on previous occasions. My ears are extremely important to me as a musician, and NOBODY is going to take my hearing away from me without a fight.
Also, I've found that if you want a good musical experience, you will buy good, noise-cancelling headphones. You're doing yourself (and your ears) a service.
Phones get smaller and more inside the ear with every new model.
I wonder how long before they just skip the ear acoustic part entirely and are modified to send electric signals through the nerves directly to our brain (remember: Microsoft has a PATENT on this).
Well then we shall all crank our volumes up safely. Yeeei!
Slashot. News for Nerds. Stuff that was on Digg 3 Days Ago.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't regist
Nice nick :)
The article says the major problem is the volume being too high. For this reason, I bought a pair of Etymotic Research ER-6I Isolator Earphones a year ago on sale for $100. Basically these earbuds will block out all external sounds. These were an excellent investment. The sound quality is amazing, and they reduce noise better than any noise canceling beasts on the market; and without the static sounds. It is like having ear plugs in coupled with amazing sound and surprisingly good bass. I can listen at 1% volume on my ipod and be happy. I bought them to travel on plane trips which has been amazing to have enjoyable flights.
We need to be more careful when using audio devices, no matter what they are. A guy down the hall in my dorm turns his music up so loud, I can't even think, unless I close my door. He'll be deaf some day. I myself have a hearing impairment (from hereditary conditions), and I'm doing my best to avoid further damage. A good strategy that my audiologist recommended is to turn the device on at the lowest volume, and while it's playing, slowly turn it up until you can just understand it and stop there. Turning it up any further than that is pointless, and if you get used to higher volumes, and continue to turn it up more, you risk damage to your ears through long-term exposure. This is subjective to everyone, but a good rule is "if you can feel it in your chest, it might be too loud". Using the sound check feature on iTunes and iPod lets you set it and leave it, since it will be at a consistent level from then on. Earbuds are dangerous, because it's direct, unfiltered sound straight into the canal.... But those iPod earbuds aren't all that great anyway, so it's a good thing to replace them.
I know a guy who'd sit a couple of yards away from me yet disturbs me with how loud his earbuds are. Unfortunately he's not the only one I know with such habit. To add to that he took me once to a club where the DJ was his friend and the music was so loud my ears were buzzing like crazy for days afterwards. I cursed, no friendship of a guy nor sex of a girl is worth that. Unfortunately, that's not how it is for most youngsters who'd prefer to endure a hearing loss than the malfeasance of peer pressure.
This is truly valuable information!
I'm always dissapointed when someone comes up with a great answer and then they're scoffed at for not using all the catch words. With a preamp mechanism (or compression), so simple now, advertisers can make things extra loud. In the past big content producers weren't so close to electronics manufacturers, but now the only new formats are being controlled by content producers. Both Toshiba and (especially) Sony are big in the electronics business and with Sony pushing DRM content, and Toshiba caving to the pressure there is a bad trend. Soon enough recording indutries will control the electronics makers as well as the artists. This will form a central control that dictates what a good user will do, instead of creating an experience that matches what users want.
Unfortunatly this trend will likely see the end of nice features like soft mute for when a radio commercial runs at kill_your_hearing_in_a_heartbeat_+10dB above the normal sound. Of course with video there are already unskippable previews for dvd's, which will only get worse with the extra proprietary HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.
Here's a question, and I'd like some insight. Can the recording industries really be so dumb as to think that users, professional hackers, and independent groups will just sit idly watching their art dissolve? What would be the motivation (if any) of intentionally creating a media black market? The old saying "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is", really isn't that far from "if it seems stupid, you're probably missing something."
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Remember the saying "don't put anything smaller than your elbow in your ear"? The reason for that is to not damage the eardrum with a q-tip or pen etc. The ears clean themselves when not obstructed, however the regular use of earbuds compacts the wax in your ears against the eardrum and will eventually cause eardrum scrathes or tears as the wax becomes drier and more dense. Then you compound the problem with regular use of earbuds. The purpose of ear wax is to protect the ears, but it must constantly be brushed out naturally by the tiny hairs in your ear and new soft wax will be formed to replace the old. Putting a couple drops of baby oil in each ear each day will at least keep the wax soft enough to maybe give the ears a chance to clean themselves when you finally take the buds out.
Stories from the Associated Press have been determined to cause brain damage, turning readers into paranoid, self-hating zombies at best and mindless, left-leaning, Bush-hating automatons at worst. Associated Press articles are particularly harmful in that they feign objectivity, are omnipresent enough to be confused with the political mainstream, and are not hysterical enough to compete with what normally appears in Pravda.
This just in Sandy, it appears that listening to loud music is bad for you. Oh, and apparently it is also bad to put the thing projecting the music right next to your ear drum. More on this as it develops..
Sheesh, what next? I, for one, am sick of hearing about the newest thing that'll hurt me. Come on, anyone here NOT think that these things were bad for you? Seriosuly, little common sense goes a long way.
Want to find other gamers to play board and role playing game
I'm fairly sure the loudness in movie previews is caused by a tendency in recent years for audio producers to make a sound "louder" by amplifying the audio signal.
About 5 years ago I met this engineer who'd received one of those "technical award" Oscars. Y'know, where they have a hot actress hang out with a bunch of nerds for a pre-taped awards ceremony. Something like that.
Anyway, he was part of a team that came up with a system to address complaints that those trailers were too damn loud. And they were. Because, once digital audio became the mainstream, engineers would max out on the volume during the trailers, each trying to outdo the trailer before it, pushing the specs to the limit with explosions, shattering glass, booming music, etc, thereby bombarding the eardrums of most of the audience.
There were a flood of complaints. Like in the thousands. If you watched movies about 5 years ago, you'll remember it, or at least that Simpson's bit with the THX sound causing people's teeth to shatter.
The new specs, if I remember this right, mandates that a trailer's audio can get loud for an explosion, but it could only sustain that volume above a certain threshhold for a set amount of time during the trailer (like there's some kind of loud amplitude maximum duration). Also, maximum volume levels were set overall.
Again, if I'm remembering correctly, an engineer now has to run his mix through some kind of "verifier" that makes sure that everything is within specs, and it's not, I think they have to pay some big fee.
I believe this was an MPAA project, and I do remember the guy saying that after this was implemented, complaints went down to zero.
Nya, nya, nya, can't hear you!!!
It's sad because it is entirely preventable but people are either ignorant or just don't care about the long-term effects loud music can have on your hearing. I like to listen to my music at a reasonable volume and I find it very enjoyable. But whenever I find someone else listening to music it is almost always much louder than I play mine. It doesn't matter if it's alone in a quiet setting or outside in a noisy environment; I always find other people's music playing much louder than I play my own, almost to the point of pain. I agree with you on the PA systems. Whenever I'm in a store and somebody makes an announcement on it I usually find it crossing into the threshold of pain; nobody else around me seems to mind, though.
As for those idiots who drive all day with the bass so loud that even from a block away it makes you queasy, they are going to get what's coming to them...
Yeah, I understand what you mean by loud theaters, concerts, churches (geez loud), etc. Since I was born partially deaf and have to wear a bone conduction hearing aid, I have an advantage in these loud situations. I will just turn off or down my hearing aid. Funny, how even that is sometimes still loud. The problem with my hearing is when people talk even on microphone. That is never loud enough. :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Ever since I got my iPod a couple of years ago I'm walking around with a normal sized headset (Sennheiser 437). Advantages: * Less noise spill * Better sound quality * More comfortable So, basically: You won't annoy the people around you so much, you'll enjoy your music better and you can actually wear them for more than 30 minutes without some serious pain Disadvantages: * Local teenagers will laugh at you for looking funny And since they're laughing anyway I'd go for a big headset anytime
First off, the method being referred to of increasing loudness is called ultra-maximizing. There are many tools that do this now, including the pioneering software tool Waves L1.
The second thing you refer to is the loudness of trailers. Please do not mistake that with the level of the THX trailer. The THX trailer is a very precisely-engineered bit of audio that allows easy verification of the audio calibration of a surround listening environment. While people used to complain about the amplitude of the THX logo sound, the fact that the theatre vibrates at the end of the sound (at the "The Audience is Listening" portion) means that the theatre's sound system is in alignment.
The third topic you mention is trailer loudness, specifically in relation to the Trailer Loudness Standard. The Trailer Loudness Standard was created by the Trailer Audio Standards Association, which took on the task of standardizing the way trailers are mixed.
Jory
Amen to that. I'm from the Ted Nugent generation, and after many LOUD rock concerts (Thanks Hawkwind, for that Sonic Attack that really was), and two solid years of Joy Division and Big Black and other punk and new wave cranked in a factory environment during the infancy of the Walkman era, my ears ring constantly, and I DO have permanent hearing loss.
The ringing is so loud that I can't hear quiet sounds and certain frequencies. It can be extremely annoying too, just ask William Shatner.
Some of the jokes about this are pretty funny, but take a moment and take this stuff seriously, there is no cure for permanent hearing loss or tinnitus, and there may not be in your lifetime. Use high volume in moderation, wear ear plugs to concerts, and always use hearing protection around potentially damaging high volume noises in industry and sport.
Good headphones should be perfectly balanced. The most likely culprit is your volume control. Many volume controls don't track well, espically at lower volume levels, so you can get imbalances. Another possibility is that one channel of the amp is oscialting, or otherwise having problems. Either way, switch your source, I bet you find the headphones are equal volume.
And these facts surprise anyone? OMFG:
Hey - look - if I shoot myself in the head, brains come out the other side!
Roll on the surgically implanted 1024 channel ear. In 2025 most "personal stereo" users will need them.
I despise headphones, in every form, even the StaX Electrostatic Ear Speakers I paid $2200 for. They gather dust in the corner, while the cheap little B&Ws belt out MP3s 12 hours a day - at volumes I can make a phone call while listening to.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
However, the scientists found that the iPod earphones were not nearly as bad for the ears as the worst offender they tested: Earphones made out of Q-Tips.
or risk losing his hearing from that headphone he wears in his ear.
The only thing new to me was that the smaller the headphones are, the louder the output with one volume setting. I've always been careful with my own headphones. Currently, I use Koss SparkPlugs and I've never measured it, but the volume I listen to music probably is round 40 dB. I hear nothing else when listening to music, though, but I think that's mostly just a positive thing...
Also, I never listen to music if I'm in a place where the noise level is high enough to force me to listen to the music too loud and I also warn others about this.
You should know that's pretty much a worthless test. That's going to work for shit with consumer audio gear. It is way too far off a flat frequency response to be useful. That's made worse if it's done with speakers, where teh room will interfere.
If I were to do a test like that with my rather nice high-end consumer/low-end pro gear, I would conclude that my hearing was rather above the norm in the 1-2khz range, dipped around 100Hz, but went back up at 60Hz. If I were to repeat that with my rear speakers, Id' get different results.
However the real answer is, of course, my speakers are not flat and my room acoustics suck. The 1-2khz rise is mostly a property of the speakers, but is also partly room based, the 100Hz dip is almost entirely room based, and doesn't happen in other locations in the room. Indeed in a few locations the bass is almost crushing.
In case you are wondering, no I'm not basing this off my ears, I'm basing it off my calibration microphone.
Consumer gear is made to sound good, not be flat. Even exceedingly high end headphones don't have a flat response, it doesn't sound good. Using it to test hearing is rather worthless.
This wont bother me, I've never been able to use the earbud style headphones due to the fact that they dont fit properly in my ears. When I have used them they fall out within a few minutes and on the odd times that I've managed to get them to stay in they start to hurt my ears after a short while. Personally I prefer my Sony ones that hook over the back of my ears.
:)
In the kingdom of the deaf the man who used over the ear headphones is king
To err is human. To forgive is not company policy.
The trick here is allowing the mp3's to play through the daily humdrum noise without hurting the ear in the execution.
'Ear bud' headphones can cause hearing loss, experts warn
Lee Bowman, Associated Press All those ears ringing from newly gifted iPods and MP3 players may not be able to hear next year's Christmas bells as well if music lovers aren't careful, hearing specialists are warning.
"We're seeing the kind of hearing loss in younger people that's typically found in aging adults,'' said Dean Garstecki, an audiologist and professor at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill.
The big culprits aren't the devices themselves, but the tiny "ear bud'' style headphones that the music players use. "Unfortunately, the earbuds are even more likely to cause hearing loss than the muff-type earphones that were used on Walkman and portable CD players,'' Garstecki said.
In a study published last year in the journal Ear and Hearing, researchers at Harvard Medical School looked at a variety of headphones and found that, on average, the smaller they were, the higher their output levels at any given volume-control setting.
And other studies have shown that because the tiny phones inserted into the ears are not as efficient at blocking outside sounds as the cushioned headsets, users tend to crank up the volume to compensate.
"I have an audiologist friend at Wichita State University who actually pulls off earphones of students he sees and asks, in the interest of science, if he could measure the output of the signal going into their heads,'' Garstecki said. Often he finds students listening at 110 to 120 decibels.
"That's a sound level equivalent to measures that are made at rock concerts,'' said Garstecki. "And it's enough to cause hearing loss after only about an hour and 15 minutes.''
A study done by Australian researchers last summer found that about a quarter of iPod users between 18 and 54 years of age listened at volumes sufficient to cause hearing damage.
Moreover, having music players with longer-lasting batteries and more storage capacity encourages people with portable players to listen longer, not giving the ears a chance to recover.
Hearing advocates are pressing for people to turn down the volume. The rule of thumb suggested by researchers at Boston Children's Hospital is to hold the volume of a music player no higher than 60 percent of the maximum, and use it for only about an hour a day.
The National Hearing Conservation Association also recommends that parents try to find audio gear for their kids that have volume-limiting devices built-in.
"If music listeners are willing to turn the volume down further still and use different headphones, they can increase the amount of time that they can safely listen,'' Garstecki said.
©2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Earbud headphones WERE not invented by Apple, contrary to popular belief.
;D
All so, contrary to popular belief you CAN listen to mp3s on devices other than iPods, of course, when was popular belief ever right...*cough*-CRAZY RELIGIONS-*cough*
Then again the same people cutting the heads off of cows for devil-worshipping rituals are the same n00bs who can't figure out how to send email.
Am-I-right, or whut?!
Put in/on your earware with the music turned off. Make a quiet sound that you can hear, e.g. by running a fingertop over some cloth (if you use open earbuds) or tapping something solid (in case of canalphones or closed headphones).
Now turn the music on, and make that same sound again. If you're not able to hear it because it's masked by the music, the music is too loud. Turn it down.
Please use good isolating canalphones (Etymotic, Shure, Sony) or, if you cannot get used to them for whatever reason, closed over-the-ear headphones. Both types reduce the outside noise, so you'll be able to (and you should) listen at a much lower volume and still get all the details. Open earbuds are evil.
Flourescent (adj): smelling like ground wheat.
I use in-ear headphones which are placed inside the ear canal. They shut off noise better than activate noise cancelling headphones can (better than the Bose Quiet Comfort I used to have) and enable me to listen to music at much lower volume.
I use the Etymotic 6i phones - they're already pretty good in terms of sound quality. For a couple hundred bucks more, you can get something from their professional range - these are supposed to be superb.
Why are man input audio sampling levels in the midi control panel?
Is apple just demented and stupid?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
"Prolonged, loud noises damage hearing."
No shit.
"MP3 players don't cause hearing loss, small headphones do."
is just too similar to
"Guns don't kill people, bullets do."
Maybe you should make that same mistake twice, then you won't be able to tell the difference.
I agree with your general points here, specifically the parts about the "canalphones" being better. I think the article was saying basically what I think you're trying to say: the more noise that your headphones/earphones let in, the louder you will listen to the music to compensate.
If you want to hear your music at +60db over your ambient noise then at 40db ambient you'll be listening at 100db. If you use canalphones that block 30db of noise, you'll be at 70db. I'm fuzzy on the exact nature of decibel math - but the point is the same regardless of the numbers. Using my Shure E3c canalphones I have an almost silent background for my music, even on a plane.
You are exactly right - canalphones (or other noise blocking ear phones) are the best way to preserve your hearing.
However I think the article is right too - because ear buds block absolutly no outside noise you are forced to turn up the volume to compensate. Combined with the lack of frequency response (particularly bass) you turn it up even louder to get good sound.
So earbuds are bad for two reasons:
1) They do not block any outside noise causing music to be turned up louder to compensate
2) Poor frequency response causes the music to be turned up louder to get a more "full" sound.
first of all the reason for people going death is that they seem to overuse their devices at volumes that are way above reasonable level. A good practice is to set the volume to a level that is low but still good enough for you to hear. After a few minutes at the most your ears adjust to the low volume and it no longer bother you. The same thing happens with high volumes only this time your ears start responding only to high enough volumes hence you get hearing loss. It is also important to note that cheap/poor quality heardphones ( as are most of the earbuds in use ) accelerate the process of hearing loss. Those headphonse produce a very limited sound range and very much unnatural sound and your ears get "lazy". Listening to high volumes on cheap headphones is also really bad for your ears not just because of the volume but because of the distortion that they create. On a sidenote, yes musicials do use in the ear style headphones but anyone who has ever looked at the price of FSI or any compatible monitors know that those are a totally different grade of headphones. Even the pro grade headphones can cause hearing loss though so moderation should be observed at all times. Oh yeah and you should probably listed the warnings in the manual ( at least this time ). As far as this article being news goes ... you gotta be kidding, this is such an overplayed story ... but it's good so I'll give it some credit.
If you are squeamish you may not want to read this. I am now substantially deaf in my left ear (20% hearing over a much-reduced frequency range), owing to a perforated eardrum, which occurred in the course of an agressive fungal infection in the outer ear canal. I suspect that infection was brought on or at least encouraged by the habit of wearing foam-covered earbuds for extended periods, including at night when asleep in bed. All of which was surely foolish, but who would have thought it could result in deafness?
It was interesting how all of this died down once the knockoffs of the Walkman started to actually work well enough to take some sales away from Sony.
Not that I am claiming that there is no hearing loss danger, but the media attention and uproar is strange since this is nothing new...
When using earphones, the bacteria population in your ears increases about a thousand times, so better not use them all the time!
I am an audiologist.
This is a completely inaccurate and fully misleading "test"
1) It is very dependent on your setup.
2) Equivalent Loudness is not an accurate measure of hearing ability for too many reasons to name here. Suffice it to say that "thresholds" are how we audiologists measure it.
3) THE "DIAGNOSES" ARE WRONG. Completely. None of them are remotely correct. High-frequency hearing loss almost never indicates a wax buildup or middle ear dysfunction. Mid-frequency (2-5kHz) loss is NOT middle ear dysfunction. Low-frequency (250-500) loss does not indicate noise-induced hearing loss. THEY ARE ALL WRONG, DISREGARD THEM COMPLETELY. Diagnoses can only be given by an audiologist or an ENT physician. And not one of these are anywhere near correct.
4) Hearing loss above 10kHz is natural and doesn't mean anything. Further, persons with normal hearing need a much higher output level at 15kHz than at 500Hz to even detect sound.
The best way to test your hearing? Visit an audiologist. They can help you.
If you want a MUCH more accurate hearing screening, you can visit Freehearingtest.com. It's a screening... not very accurate, but much more so than this. And easy to do as well.
I suggest visiting wikipedia to learn more about hearing loss. Also, the American Academy of Audiology.
How many years have we known this? or is this just another Slashdot paid ad to mention the word iPod?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Now that MS read about the OSX feature on slashdot.
"Tinnitus is horrible (ringing in the ears), but it's also common to suffer damage in the 3-6 KHz range, where much of the understandability of speech is"
I have just that problem. After too many years of listening to loud rock music in my youth I have the strange situation of still being able to hear very high frequency sounds well for my age (late 30s, could still hear
17khz at company medical a few years ago) but I can have trouble understanding what someone is saying if the enviroment is noisy, whereas other people around me have no problems. Its wierd because I can hear the sound of the voices no problem, but my brain sometimes just can't work out the words.
Yes, that's why I stopped using them and came back to the normal iPod ones, the earbuds are great but I defenetly lost hearing, I was always saying 'what?' to people when they talked to me, now it's getting a bit better but I still think I lost hearing that is not coming back.
Mac toys and accessories blog
what are you twenty years in the past or sumthin'? this has been proved beyond doubt for quite sumtime now... yeah but maybe not in the year that you're posting from!
i live on an alternate planet
I tend to put the volume right up when I am in the subway, just to hear my music over everything else thats going on. But I dont realize how loud I play my music until I get to work and start listening at the same volume level.
I tried out a pair of noise cancelling ear buds from Sony and they werent that impressive either. I intend to invest in a good pair of head phones thats offers some kind of noise cancalation after. Reading all the horror stories.
The Noisy Ape.
Interesting stuff!
I used an ASR-33 teletype terminal for 5+ years. Doing that has stuffed my hearing. Now, 30+ years later, I have horrible squealing tinnitus. Please youngsters, take care of your hearing. Once you damage the micro-hairs in your cochlea you have damaged them and your hearing for ever. End of sentence. Period. They will not heal. Listen to the programs while you still can.
As never is when OSX will run on the hardware the rest of us actually own.
Getting the "right" volume is hard when you're on a bus/train/treadmill/anywhere with background noise. With background noise then almost any volume where you can hear the music is too loud.
You can get earphones which block the background noise, but like, nobody does.
I don't mind ipod owners going deaf. It's my revenge for all the annoying psst psst noises they make sitting next to me. Can't anybody go anywhere or do anything without loud music these days?
No sig today...
If you have a good earbuds - they may actually improve your hearing. Etymotic ER4P, for example (the ones that I have), provide great noise isolation, so you don't really have to turn your volume all the way up - even on a New York subway train you can enjoy a quiet and pleasant music in those. So in fact, good earbuds can _improve_ your hearing - especially in New York Subway (if someone have ever been on "Union Square" station for 4/5/6 trains will know what I mean ;) ), simply because you won't have to hear all that noise and enjoy the music instead.
I've used them both with CD players and cell phones, and I have to agree, they feel horrible. Has anyone EVER had one fit inside their ear AND stay put? As far as the hearing loss goes, I didn't use mine enough to notice a difference, but I can see where it could happen. You can overdo ANYTHING...
A Series Of Tubes - The Remix
My music tends to be pretty gentle but I probably will be deaf in my old age. Then again who is to say I will not die of a heart attack before?
All this worry about headphones is a bit silly. All that has to happen is that you stand to close to someone popping an airhose and bam, you loose more hearing then an iPod can do in a year.
Live is to short to worry.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
What?
My rule for volume was that if somebody standing near me can hear it, even if it's just a quiet hum or just the beat, it's too loud. Every once and a while my boyfriend tells me he hears voices, which is his way of telling me to turn down my audiobook's volume.
Dateline: Redmond, WA
Doctors have found that people wearing white ear bud style headphones, suffered much greater hearing loss than people who didn't use ear bud style headphones. The doctors at a privately funded clinic recommend that if you are using white ear bud style headphones that you throw the buds in the trash after running them through your margaritta blender. Dr. Gates is quoted as saying "This level of hearing loss must be stopped, or we will be a nation of people who can only communicate in the most primative forms of communication. Make sure you completely destroy the offending devices, you don't want them falling into the hands of innocent children."
One of mine was colicky -- went on crying jags five hours long.
A hint: foam earplugs. You can still hear 'em, but they takes the nerve jangling edge off so you can operate like a human being.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Unless they turned into a fashion statement. Anyway where are the fscking lawyers when you do need them.
they want their health scare back.
C-x C-s C-x k
Listening to loud music causes hearing loss.
Fire prooved to be 'Hot' by team of Japanese Scientists.
UK based research finds water to be 'wet'.
Isn't this another case where the tool is demonized in stead of the user? There is nothing about these headphones that forces you to turn the volume up to 10 all the time (or 11, if you have the Spinal Tap model)! In fact, I have often wished I had earbud headphones. Why? So I could turn the volume down.
If you listen to music in a noisy environment, you should ask yourself: Do you really want to add more to that already almost deafening noise?
As for tinnitus, it's a real pain. My right ear has been ringing ever since I foolishly acted as the starter in a school athletics competition. Didn't have hearing protection on, still have tinnitus. The event was 19 years ago.
The rule of thumb suggested by researchers at Boston Children's Hospital is to hold the volume of a music player no higher than 60 percent of the maximum, and use it for only about an hour a day.
Unfortunately, this recommendation is likely to fall on deaf ears.
Dear Will, the plums were poisoned. -- Cheese Club
Not the "bud" style, but the Over the ear bud ear huggers seem to fit quite comfortably, I've had to experiment with a couple since I had my favorite pair pull apart at the headphone jack, Sony over the ear buds SUCK, the off-brand, awesome. There is a soft rubber tube that forms over the ear and hugs it fairly snuggly without too much ear penetration, which is half the problem with buds. The other half of course is volume management, which is made worse by stuffing the buds halfway down the canal.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
1984 called and wanted it's research study back. Realy how is this NEWs?
First it's the iPod causing hearing loss.
Then it's the headphones.
In a few months it will be high volume levels.
In a few years it will be molecules vibrating at a high frequency!
Sheesh!
First off, it will sound as if you have your back facing the concert. Secondly, Stereo Music WILL sound biased to the left channel. Most music (especially oldies) have the vocals balance mostly to the left channel and the insterments balance mostly to the right. If you want proof of this get a copy of Sunshine Lollipops by Leslie Gore (quickest example that I could find). When the "crowd" joins in they join in biased on the right channel. To keep on topic here it is volume NOT headset type that is the key. I try to keep the volume low enough to hear me and I use a large style closed cup headset (with 1/8" plug) on my MP3 Player.
sudo mod me up
Sweet, I have a pair of those too! You don't need to turn them up nearly as much as a pair of earbuds to get the same quality of sound, but yeah, I agree that turning it up just to block out background noise isn't just anti-social, it's unhealthy.
;-)
Those that say it's necessary in some situations (on a bus/train/etc) should really reconsider where and how they listen to music. Truly, the most enjoyable and healthy way to listen to music is with a quality stereo system in your living room, but if you must take your tunes to go, may I suggest this: use a pair of earbuds in your nose.
No, seriously. Place each earbud in your nostrils, close your lips but leave your jaw open. Then plug your ears and enjoy -- just remember to breathe every once in a while. Not only does this produce a really cool voice-in-your-head effect, you can crank your player to the max, and cut out the background noise without fear of hearing loss because it's resonating in your sinuses and mouth instead of your ear canals.
The downside: it diminishes the stereo effect some and people tend to look at you funny -- a small price to pay.
This sig rocks the casbah.
nt
I hear ya. Just be glad it wasn't twins! :0
Full-Featured GPL Web Hosting Control Panel
"I only hope that ENT doctors and researchers continue to find ways to repair the ear's mechanisms and perhaps develop nerve repair techniques or we're gonna have a huge population of elderly deaf people 50 years from now (with commensurate increase in volume of PA systems etc.)"
l .asp?transid=newHD-3
The solution for me here was obvious: I have a set of custom molded earplugs to save my ears. They're normally kept in my car, so that I can have them readily available for whenever I do or find myself in any of the following activities:
* Mow the lawn
* Go to the movies
* Get in an airplane (getting "ON" an airplane is very dangerous, especially when it takes off...)
* Get in a really loud car (not mine, which is retty quiet)
* I find myself with too much noise around me
The earplugs fit inside my ear and are flesh colored, so they are fairly unobtrusive and very small; to date, no one has ever noticed (or at leat commented) my wearing them. They reduce the volume by a little more than 20 decibels and easily fit in a plastic container about the size of a 35mm film container. They cost me $70.00, with no insurance coverage needed. They are fairly comfortable; I have found I can wear them for about two hours before my ears feel irritated.
It's one of the best investments I ever made. As a result I still have my full range of hearing (having had a hearing test in the last year to check on it), despite the mild whine of tinitus at the 10-12KhZ range I often hear in a very quiet room. I'm sure it would have been much worse had I not used my plugs over the past six years.
So if loud noises bother you, consider having a good set of comfortable, small custom earplugs made for you.
Also if you do wear headphones, consider the following:
* keep the volume at the lowest level at which you can comfortably hear it.
* use over the ear headphones, not bud style
* buy the BEST headphones you can afford; better headphones will have less distortion and better, clearer sound re-production at lower sound levels, so you will not need as high a soud range to get comparable sound output (i.e. you can keep the volume lower for the same equivilant sound level and what you hear will sound better).
I myself use Sennheiser HD595's, which retail for $285.00
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productdetai
but they can be found around $250.00.
You could also buy noise cancelling headphones for around the same amount.
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
Indeed, in-ear headphones are not good for your hearing. In-ear headphones apply too much pressure to your ear drums, even at lower volume levels. They are very similar to the pressures (on your ear components) that boom-box cars and rock concerts cause.
It is very important to realize that a good portion of people in the US (I don't have any knowledge about the following with respect to other places) do two things profusely: listen to extreme volume in closed cars; wear in-ear headphones.
Get your hearing checked at your doctor's office. If you can't afford the doc, go to a clinic. Listen to the advice of an audiologist once you've been tested.
Seriously, remember, you can't re-grow or heal damaged hearing organs, nerves, and components. I love my iPod - I can listen to music during work - but I use open-back muff headphones at low volume, and only 45 minutes or so at a time.
It would be a serous bummer not to be able to hear my kids talking about their lives, and it would be a serious bummer not to be able to hear my wife tell me that she loves me. These things are more important than earbuds or massive quad subwoofers.
A Passionate Independent Musician
It depends...I'm 25 and I have a 2 year old and a 5 week old. At times, they are both crying and once and though I've learned patience, I still want to pull my hair out. I'd love nothing more than to be able to jump in the car, drive off, and listen to music. Music is my escape.
First off, because they are custom molded to my ear, they don't put pressure on the ear canal in order to stay in place. Much more comfortable. The coolest thing is how they work though. When I first tried them on, I thought they weren't working very well. I could still hear everything just fine. It was rather odd. However, after wearing them a few times in high noise situations, I noticed something. When I left the noise...my ears weren't ringing. And that's the best part. I can hear everything and it sounds normal, and yet my ears are protected. Give 'em a try. Yes, they are expensive But they're protecting something you can't get back once you lose.
Stand clear of the doors. The doors are now closing.
I've had several sets of speakers with an analog volume knob and a headphone jack where the L and R volumes weren't quite equal. At low volumes (using the analog knob) one channel was much louder than the other. Increasing the volume with the knob made them balanced. Using the computer's mixer to reduce the volume to the same low level produced balanced results.
I'd love to be able to read The Fine Article, if only my vision hadn't been severely impaired by too many hours watching crap TV on a Video Ipod!
Nuffsaid
________
Don't know about his cat, but Schroedinger is definitely dead.
Setting oneself on fire and playing in traffic may lead to injury or death.
You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talkin' to? You talkin' to me? Well, I'm the only one here. Who do the **** do you think you're talking to? Oh, yeah? Ok.
not even sure what to say to this,... guess I'll try it.
You go deaf from enjoying the music on your iPod but you'll also go blind from enjoying the pr0n on your video iPod.
Dude, I'm gonna dig through my suitcase full of wires and crap and see if I still have some earbuds, I wanna try this!
Hear Hear. When I'm on the train and I can hear someone's music over my own, I know their volume is too high and I know they are destined for hearing loss. From the article:
And other studies have shown that because the tiny phones inserted into the ears are not as efficient at blocking outside sounds as the cushioned headsets, users tend to crank up the volume to compensate.
The trains are noisy and I found that I would have had to turn up the volume on my music so I could hear it. As a result, I have stopped listening to my music on the train for fear of hearing loss. Anything that means I need the volume at 10 or 11 means the ambient noise is too loud and I turn off the music.
This makes me worried about national health care. If it (national health care in the US) ever happens I know that my taxes will go up to pay for these fools who have hearing loss due to poor choices they are making now.
IEM's or In Ear Monitors actually seal in the eardrum for passive isolation. They look similar to earbuds, but sound better, especially at low volume. Just got a pair and absolutely love them. If you are looking to move on from your buds check them out.
I guess as soon as the holidays are over some greedy lawyer will file yet another class action lawsuit against Apple, this time to help those poor people the wily Steve Jobs suckered into listening to their iPods at full volume for extended periods.
"I find myself covering my ears during the previews, which tend to have intense, compressed action with a lot of music and narrative to pump up the adrenaline. Generally when the main feature begins the sound volume settles down a bit but it can still be worrisomely loud."
Actually, while the music and explosions all over the prieviews have something to do with the extra noise, much of the problem comes from the fact that movie previews are run in a different sound format than the movie itself. I was a projectionist a few years ago during highschool. Because movie traliers are a dime a dozen and shipped to us all the time, they usually did not have digital soundtracks. We had to run them in surround sound stereo (2 channels out of 4 speakers). Because our audio was tuned for dolby digital, which was more delicate...these previews butchured the sound and seemed way too loud. A good projectionist would turn down the master volume for the previews, and then back up for the main feature, but a lazy one, which is the more common one, just lets it all run set up for the main feature. So next time this happens, you'll know that you've got a projectionist on minimum wage who doesn't give a rats as, and now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
> but I can have trouble understanding what someone is saying if the enviroment is noisy, whereas other people around me have no problems. Its wierd because I can hear the sound of the voices no problem, but my brain sometimes just can't work out the words.
I've had this problem for a few years now too - seems to have gotten slowly worse over the past couple years - I'm sure my friends are sick and tired of me asking "what"? Sometimes they don't repeat themselves any more. I'm also not so pleased that one guy insists on quietly saying whatever it is he has to say - I can barely ever hear him. He's a nice guy, maybe I should explain that I think I've got a touch of hearing loss and if he's talking in a bar or over other people's voices or 16 feet away, could he please speak a *touch* louder. It's interesting how it's always just a *tiny* bit that makes a difference. It must be his voice too - the pitch and tone of it and how loudly he talks compared to most people.
Anyways - your description of "hear the sound of the voices no problem, but brain just can't work out the words" strikes me very strongly as what I experience. And I can't figure out how other people can hear what they are saying...
It's only been in the past 3 months that I've started having persistent tinnitus. I've seen my doctor and am having an audiology test set up. So I guess I'll finally find out just wtf is going on... Maybe. Hearing related things aren't as definitive to figure out as other things. Could be any one of 20 things, none of which are easy to conclude... That kind of annoys me.
The thing that pisses me off royally is that I have NOT listened to loud music! I've almost never attended loud concerts. The times I have been to a loud concert, I would use earplugs or something. I've been to maybe one or two loud clubs a year - compared to other co-workers who go 20 times a year. I've listened to a lot of music through headphones but I *never* listened as loudly as others I pass in the street whose music I can hear clearly. When I hold my buds/earphones 6 inches away from my face, I can barely hear it, a foot in front of me the buds are silent.
I am the last person I would have expected to have had hearing loss or tinnitus based on my "loud sound exposure" levels.
I've wondered about the infrasound as I'm on the top 30th floor of a building and my windows/walls vibrate maddly around 3-15 Hz due to the machine room above (thick concrete, so I can't hear any of it). But extensive research on the internet does not show any link between infrasound and hearing loss. The first thing that excessive infrasound exposure causes is nausea and other physical symptoms, none of which I've had.
I, too, find numerous situations in everyday life where the volume of some sound is between annoying and painful. The other day at a department store, the volume of an inane looping advertisement on the overhead speakers was so loud that it was distorting the speakers and caused physical pain. I've begun carrying earplugs with me. They come in much handier in general than I would have thought, and they made short work of the department store ad. And when I go to the gym and three different televisions are fighting with each other, I pop in my earplugs and then cover those with my noise-cancellation headphones and crank up the volume til the sound coming through the earplugs is just right.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
Good post! On my iRiver H340, I use a volume level of 15-20 with my big over-ear cans, 12-15 with my earbuds, and 3-4 with my Shure E3 (stock firmware levels). These levels give me equal difference between background and music, the total level of sound being experienced by my ears is of course lowest with the Shure E3. Probably about equal with earbuds or my over ear phones as both are very open to outside sound, the higher volume is needed because the over ears have higher impedence.
The only problem with the Shures is that I can't hear people talking to me at work at all w/o taking them out. I'm pretty sure that overall wearing them improves my hearing, because the music level that I listen to during the day is about the same as the ambient noise in my office, and less droning.
--Brandon
Firstly I third the suggestion on the musician's plugs. They usually come with flat filters that cut 15db or 2db flat across the frequency spectrum. Most musician's plugs are designed so that one can pull out/ exchange the filter which blocks sound. What this also allows is for use of the plugs as perfect-fitting in ear headphones- they are used on stage by pro musicians as a substitute for stage monitors. One can use a set of the Shure E5C Isolating Headphones, which fit perfectly in the filter holes. This setup really blocks out background noise (worked awesome on a recent flight to Japan) and consequently reduces the required volume needed to hear music, etc.
Santa got my kid a Sansa. I'm trying to hack it to limit the volume to something reasonable, although at full blast it isn't as bad as most. Anybody ever try hacking a plain old mp3 player to limit the output?
if you put ear buds in your butt do they cause constipation?
Let me tell you you got that right. I have 2 1/2 twin boys and when they were little ones I just wanted to rip their larynx right out, but that would have been cruel. It is a little better now that they are older albeit a different loud screaming and yelling.
I wonder if that applies to turbo type (the ones that go into your ear in a 90 degree angle) such as "sony turbo".
I figured that with these I can block out ambient noise, and enjoy better base at a lower volume.
The Ipod earpiece died on me after 3 weeks, and sound quality is unacceptable for me compared to the sony ones.
This is not to start a flamewar at all, I listen to electronic music (trance, goa, psychedelic) and that's what I figured - the ipod buds let too much environmental noise in, and quality suffered with volume.
Mostly use my ipod at the gym, elsewhere I use a MDR V500 monitoring headset from Sony.
So how does that study apply to turbo-types? Any ideas?
I think the problem here is that people don't know what is an acceptable volume level. It seems that the general consensus among younger people is if your wearing headphones, you should hear the music and the music only.. So they crank it up, but when your using those little earbuds, which put the speaker about 2cm (or less) from your eardrum and crank it up to >110db, of course its gonna be damaging to your hearing. Since their so small, your gonna hear more of the ambient noise around you, so to drain it out, they crank up the volume. I've been listening to music at work for about 2 years now, for 8 hours a day, and I've had no hearing problems whatsoever. I think it also helps to get those little fuzzy covers for the earbuds. -circut
anyone else turn down the volume on thier ipod after reading all these posts ?
What?
I read this article the other day off of reddit, though it was on another site (sorry, I couldn't find the link to post here), and it mentioned the real problem is that people turn the volume up so high to overcome external noise. With muff-style phones, noise escapes away from the ear canal, thus saving your hearing.
Earbuds are not the culpret, it's high volume. In the other article, the good doctor was mentioned as saying something like "purchase a pair of the old muff-style earphones or spend a little more and purchase noise cancelling earphones, that way you won't be as likely to turn the volume up so high [to compensate for the background noise of the environment]".. or something like that.
Either way, buy a set of good noise cancelling earbuds that fit comfortably in your ear, keep the volume down, and save your hearing.
So tell me... as someone who works in the live audio industry, WHY THE FUCK do live events always have the audio cranked up to painful health-damaging levels?
I've pretty much given up on live music because of it.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
First off, the method being referred to of increasing loudness is called ultra-maximizing.
"UltraMaximizer" is a product name, and the Waves UltraMaximizer software plugin is nothing more than a very nice peak limiter algorithm with gain compensation.
Those "volume level" numbers you quote tell us NOTHING.
Your three sets of headphones have three different efficiencies, and therefore the "volume level" numbers of your player have NO relationship to the db output of your headphones.
In Soviet Russia, device listens to YOU!
I remember reports on how listening to music through earphones/headphones/1000watt stereo etc could damage your hearing back in the days of the Sony walkman, i.e. 1978 or so. It's a slow new years eve week when they drag that one out of the closet, dust it off and send it around the block to shock gullible mommies and poppies before putting it back into cold storage for the next dull tech news week.
NEWSFLASH!!!!!! (OMG!) Extremely loud sound can damage your hearing.
Weep.
Well...Steve Jobs is doing his part by deliberately making the iPod volume/headphones louder since he is hard on hearing.
Considering the HUGE ipod population ,some years down the line ,does any one visualise Steve Jobs being sued for causing MASS HEARING LOSS to people?
Why does yahoo do this
This makes me worried about national health care. If it (national health care in the US) ever happens I know that my taxes will go up to pay for these fools who have hearing loss due to poor choices they are making now.
Thats the least of your worries- What about all the fat/nonactive people? What about smokers? People who dont wear seatbelts in cars or helmets on motorcycles. What about people who do extreme sports? So much of healthcare use in the US is related to lifestyle/poor choices...
And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
Serves you right for breeding, you selfish asshole.
The problem with headphones, ear-buds and In-Ear Monitors is exactly that we've blocked out the world around us. Our brains use environmental queues to help warn us when something we hear is too loud - before the onset of physical pain. The brain can determine how loud somthing is based on how the sound interacts with the space we're in. The brain uses similar methods to determine which direction a sound is coming from. Our insticts kick in when it gets too loud and we want to stick our fingers in our ears, even though we don't because we'll look "too old."
Another issue (which doesn't seem to have been brought up yet) is duration of exposure. I don't recall the exact figures (ask OSHA), but the idea is this: your ears can only do so much work in a given period of time. Loud noises work your ears more than soft ones, but sustained moderate-volume noises can work your ears as much if not more than loud noises. Once your ears pass their "working" threshold, you will start to damage them. Every time you leave a loud environment (like when the Who is in town) and you notice your ears ringing, you're noticing new permanent hearing damage.
As we age, our ears gradually sustain more permanent damage. Contrary to what many believe, there is currently no way to repair or reverse hearing damage, only ways to work with it. Hearing aids simply amplify noises we can no longer detect (thereby hastening further damage) and cochlear implants effectively replace the natural inner ear mechanism with an artificial one which while allowing the person to hear again probably doesn't sound as "right" as the original did.
In addition to loudness, other factors can contribute to hearing loss. Cigarrette smoke, alcohol, poor diet, poor sleeping habits, and CAFFEINE all increase a person's risk for hearing loss.
I started playing the drums when I was 10 years old, and I didn't wear earplugs regularly until my early twenties when I was studying audio engineering at Berklee College of Music. I suffer from tinitus (cronic ringing of the ears) and I've found that in addition to a good diet and plenty of water, the best way to reduce the ringing is to avoid caffeine, consume alcohol only moderately, and avoid smoky environments. I've also found that if I know I'm going to be in a loud environment (like a concert, seminar, party, etc), I can protect my ears by maintaining a softer environment for the rest of the day - ie, not listening to loud music, wearing earplugs when I'm walking down a city street or on the subway or in the car, etc.
I think everyone who has concerns about their hearing could benifit from this.
For the same reason people sky-dive. There is an experience associated w/ loud music that is almost identical to roller-coasters or other laughter-inducing exhileration.
If something isn't making you laugh/scream/cheer, it probably isn't thrilling you.
Why would you spend $30 to watch the same crap that you can get on a CD unless it had a unique sense of enthrallment?
While you may not care for the thrill of volume, you're probably in the minority (especially dependent on the genre).
I go to dance clubs exclusively for the reason that cops don't knock on my appartment door that way; e.g. volume.
That being said, as a sibling of two 90% deaf people (from birth), I'm very conscious about loud noises. I will actually cover my ears during concerts so that I can regulate just how loud the volume is. Moreover, if I nearly completely cut off the sound for long enough, my ears soften to the volume level and I can uncover my ears slightly and have the same "thrill" but at 1/5 the volume.. I have to continuously cycle through this starvation of sound so that I don't need full volume most of the time; and can still achieve periodic thrill.
Obviously I'm being anal about it; trying to have my cake and eat it too. But it works. The problem is this sort of attention to detail wouldn't be labeled as 'cool', so it would never fly for the general public.
-Michael
Thats the least of your worries- What about all the fat/nonactive people? What about smokers? People who dont wear seatbelts in cars or helmets on motorcycles. What about people who do extreme sports? So much of healthcare use in the US is related to lifestyle/poor choices...
Actually, no, I'm worried about all the things you list as well, but they were off-topic. (No criticism intended.) My second worry is that if we have US National Health Care, they may limit my activities to prevent me from impacting health care costs. For example, I like to scuba dive. I'm willing to take the risk. I don't want the government to say I can't scuba.
I can't believe you made me put ear buds in my nose.
I just crossed from office-geek into "don't stare and walk away slowly" dude.
Ah hell, maybe I'll get me some crazy eyes and complete the package.
Thanks!
Why, o why must the sky fall when I've learned to fly?
My hearing loss got so bad from using earbuds that I can even hear what I read now. Typing is even difficult.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
One time at my school I noticed that my mind was echoing the crappy fake bell tower's westminster chime pattern over and over for hours. It drove me batty!
I was on a 3 engine Boeing (727 or 757 I think) seated as close to the rear engine as one could be put on a passenger flight.
That whole night I could hear in my mind the spinning up, spinning down, and thrust reversal sounds of the engine.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
I'm not talking about 'loud', I'm talking about 'painful without earplugs'. Surely it's possible to have some kind of happy medium, where it's only slightly dangerous but still exciting?
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I just crossed from office-geek into "don't stare and walk away slowly" dude.
I don't think that it's really that weird, unless you think of "anyone trying something new" as weird. Automobiles and electric lighting were all new at one point...
I suspect that the enjoyment of a media is greater when you have more related stimuli firing that your brain can tie together.
People like bass. I doubt that this is because low notes are just really neat, but because they can *feel* the bass -- vibration and air pressure differences on their skin. A chair that has an embedded subwoofer could produce some of this effect.
Video games that have audio triggered by various in-game events, producing a synchronized audio-video simuli, have stomped silent video games.
There have been some attempts at games that produce even more synchronization between audio and video. A number of games now have not merely sound effects triggered by game events, but adaptive music. The game state affects the type of background music playing -- Lumines, Total Annihilation, all kinds of newer games. Your brain gets to tie together finger actions with music.
There have even been some video games which alter game state based on audio -- for example, Vib-Ribbon and Rez have game events triggered in synchronization with the audio as *well* as audio that adapts itself to game events (and, for that matter, outside of the US, Rez had a vibrator that one could hook up to the game via USB to provide tactile feedback). Now, Rez didn't sell all that well, but I strongly suspect that this was because it was too unusual for people to try it out -- the people I know that *do* play Rez are generally pretty rabid about it. The concept of associating more stimuli to produce a more enjoyable experience generally seems to work pretty well. The same approach seemed to work well for Dance Dance Revolution.
I've seen a lot of game designers take the idea of tying more forms of stimuli together, but they often just seem to think something along the lines of, "I should make a game based on music", and then the game doesn't really rise above anything other than a game oriented around music. There's no real reason why you couldn't take *any* of the types of games that currently have background music (i.e. almost all of them) and simply synchronize various game events to the music.
I wonder how well a full-body suit would sell, something that provides tactile stimuli that could be synchronized with audio. I mean, yes, it would be expensive, but I also see vendors for audiophiles selling multi-thousand-dollar cables, amplifiers, and headphones to try to reproduce that sensory experience crafted by the musician just a *little* more accurately -- surely, just adding more stimuli to the mix would be more worthwhile.
I wonder when the RIAA (which dearly loves moving to new formats and forcing everyone to buy their audio over again) will try shipping music in a new format, where it can contain video tracks or tactile tracks. If they want to be less ambitious, at least lighting tracks -- coming up with a standard where you have, say, eight lights each containing R, G, B elements, and allowing them to fade or flash to various colors in time to the music would seem to be a pretty cheap and compelling way to get people to purchase new music all over again.
WinAMP and various computer-based audio players try to automate the above via beat detection and use extracted data from the audio stream as input to a video image. However, as people who have tried this out know, not only is automated realtime beat and rhythm detected far from perfect, but elements of the music that are quite pe
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
I just cant wear in-ear headphones if they're the kind that are supposed to stay in by virtue of their shape. I just don't have that little cartillage outcropping that most of them hook behind. Makes finding a cheap hands-free for my cell dificult as well.
I've decided to just stay with my Sennheiser 280-HDs. Not only do they block out all the noise arround you (my god is it a welcome thing every now and then) but when I connect them to my computer I can turn my master volume slider down to 1/3 and the slider for my wave level to one notch above off and still hear everything clearly.
Sure, they're not as small as ear-buds, but they allow you to hear everything without going anywhere near full volume.
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
I just crossed from office-geek into "don't stare and walk away slowly" dude.
:-P
But the question is: was it worth it? ^_^
p.s. - I really am sorry if you don't have any friends now. If they couldn't accept our new use of earbuds, they were never your friends in the first place.
p.p.s. - Just so you guys know, I only did it once -- just to be silly -- and I by no means seriously recommend doing it on a regular basis (I mean, it is your nose...). But then again, whatever floats your boat is fine by me.
This sig rocks the casbah.
For example, I like to scuba dive. I'm willing to take the risk. I don't want the government to say I can't scuba.
Canada's national health care doesn't stop you from doing anything you want. If you hear otherwise, it's a scare tactic from HMO lobbyists.
Trolling is a art,
I think you've proven nothing except that you have mild hearing loss (hereditary). I have the same problems you described (noisy backgrounds drown out conversations others can hear). But I haven't used a set of headphones in at least 5-6 years. Before that I'd occasionally use the big ear-covering style headphones. But not really loud. So what's the cause?
I also have tinnitus when I'm under stress and the blood pressure's up.
Can I blame all this on EARBUDS?!
MOD PARENT UP
If you use an earplugs daily, even on normal enviroments, to avoid damages to your ear will might get some ear infection instead.
Because your hands are not always clean, you need them to put (mash) the earplugs, and you probably wont use a new earplug every time you need it.
We've had the National Health Service here in the UK for about 40-50 years now and, as far as I know, there have never been any restrictions on leisure activities, lifestyle choices or extreme sports. In fact, it's the private health insurance providers that tend to be the problem as they'll do everything they can to wriggle out of footing the bill - the government, on the other hand, has a duty to give you (as a taxpayer) the proper level of healthcare.
For example, I had private health insurance from a company called BUPA. A few years ago I developed bad tonsillitis and the waiting list for the removal operation was around 6 months. I claimed against my health insurance as this kind of thing was covered... but they refused point blank. The reason? They claimed that I had already had tonsillitis in my medical records (yes, I was 16 at the time) and this constituted a 'history of health problems'.
The NHS dealt with it in the end, and I have had no problems since. Now, as there are probably more people who fall and break bones than those who require hearing treatment, I doubt the government would dare worry the taxpayers about their impact on health care costs. Telling the electorate to stop sports or listening to music because of the strain on the NHS is a sure fire way to lose an election!
A number of reasons. In small clubs, volume is often pushingly loud because the band is inexeperienced or not that good, and have way too high stage volume. I've had guitar players who have their amps turned up so loud that by themselves they were 110 dB and would not turn down. Drummers are often very loud, particularly the snare.
With bigger shows, the audience is generally there for an "experience" - one that includes chest shaking volume. To get that amount of bass takes a good amount of power and to make the rest of the mix sound balanced requires even more. Your average race track fan wouldn't go to see a bunch of people racing Honda Accords any more than most rock concert goers would go to see a show that was at 80 dB.
I try to keep things at a reasonable level, but when the people paying me tell me to turn it up, I tend to do so. I generally have spare earplugs that I'll give to anyone that asks, but very few do.
There's also the question of how far back the audience extends from the speakers. In order to provide coverage to the back of a deep audience, the volume has to be significantly louder up front.
Other factors include the fact that many musicians and support people have significant hearing damage and either require greater and greater volume to hear or don't realize how loud it is. People running sound at smaller events are often less skilled and perceive "loud" as the best thing to achieve. Think of the types of people who have car stereos that make the entire car vibrate. Same concept.
Alcohol also makes people perceive things as being softer, and alcohol is very often found at live events. I've had lots of drunk people come up to me at shows that were quite loud and complain that it was too soft.
I've never gotten an ear infection from this, but your mileage may vary... I also use custom-molded plugs (~$120 in 1996) that require less handling and are easily cleaned with soap and warm water. If you're gonna wear earplugs regularly, it's well worth the investment to get custom plugs.
I'm an electical engineer and otolaryngologist and while the grandparent's hearing test is similar to the vonBekesey audiogram (a tone sweep where you turn up the volume until you hear the sound) the equipment you will be using is almost surely not professional grade. To be accurate the equipment also needs to be calibrated (audiologists pay $100's for this each year). If you suspect you have a hearing loss I would suggest you see either an audiologist (not a hearing aid dispenser) or a physician. The first step in evaluating a hearing loss is to look in you ear with an otoscope, this is a much better tool to diagnose wax than any hearing test, not to mention damage to the ear canal and ear drum. An audiogram, tympanogram, speech thresholds and acoustic reflexes done by an audiologist who knows how to differentiate conductive from sensorineural losses is the next step. Depending on associated symptoms (tinnitus, vertigo, etc), hearing loss type and configuration, an otolaryngologist can then recommend treatment options which may include hearing aids or surgery.
While a clever attempt at an audiogram on the cheap, the granparent's post is pretty inacurate. Please disregard the diagnoses and see you doctor if you are concerend about your hearing.
I guess I'll just continue to avoid live events then.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
If you listen to loud music, you should try the Online Hearing Test.
You think? You wanna bet your hearing on that? Consider this:
The earbuds are designed to form a tight seal with the ear
to optimize bass reproduction with minimal power. You don't get as tight a seal
with the over-the ear phones, as they are held on by a spring and sealed with foam.
The ear-buds are sealed and held in with pressure against the sides of the ear
canal -- which transfers mechanical motion from the bud (holding the speaker) down
into the ear canal.
The mechanics support a real-increased danger here from small increases in power,
beyond what you would get with a non-sealed earphone design.
-l
We've had the National Health Service here in the UK for about 40-50 years now and
Is the tax burden for individuals in the UK worse than the burden in the US? How about economic freedom? Is there more economic freedom in the US or in the UK? Which country is doing better?
I lack the expertise to evaluate the statistics. I see that the tax burden in the UK is 37% of GDP and the tax burden in the US is 28% of GDP. I see that a 10-dollar CD in the US is equivalent to a 10-pound CD in the UK (anecdotal accounts). Per Capita GDP in the US (32K) is greater than Per Capita GDP in the UK (24K).
Summary: Will the increased tax burden as a result of National Health Service (NHS) in the US limit economic development and reduce overall standard of living? Will my tax burden increase as a consequence of additional strain on the projected NHS due to bad lifestyle choices?
Maybe I should be blogging this commentary since I really don't add anything to the discussion, but hope someone else will address these issues.
They said the same thing about the original Walkman-style bulky foam headphones in the 80s.
The thing they probably don't get about the in-ear headphones is that you probably don't need to turn them up as loud, because they block more external noise.
I think it's probably more likely that people will listen at lower, safer volume levels with in-ear headphones because of this.
The peak db levels in their ears won't be as high, because they won't need to crank the volume up to hear the quieter passages well.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA