Opera CEO Jon von Tetzchner Answers Your Questions

Back in 2005 (last week) we sent Opera Software CEO Jon von Tetzchner twelve of your questions. This year (this week), we have his answers. Enjoy!

1) Re:Competing vs Free Open Source Product
by CSMastermind (847625)

Some have suggested that Microsoft should buy the Opera browser. How do you feel about this? If they did, would you plan to continue with work on the browser? Would you ever work for Microsoft?

Jon von Tetzchner:

We have been competing with Microsoft for a long time and I have not felt that they have always fought fairly. I would be disappointed if we were to end up in their hands and I find that very unlikely. I believe a lot of people at Opera would find them selves other work and that would include me.

2) What can we look forward to?
by robyannetta (820243)

I've been pimping Firefox since version 0.7 but have recently moved to Opera because Firefox doesn't natively support some things that Opera does:

local.google.com Native user agent switching
Opera 9's upcoming Acid2 compatibilty
Eye candy and general coolness factors

Can you give us a taste of new, unannounced features we'll see in future versions?

Jon von Tetzchner:

Thanks for using Opera. You have moved from one good browser to another. :)

There is a lot of new things coming in Merlin. We continue focusing on making Opera even smaller and faster, while adding a lot of useful, new features. Some of these features are by request from our user community, so feel free to add your own requests.

A lot of the focus is on improving what we have got. Our users want us to do this and we want to do this. This means that we will continue to focus on making Opera work faster and better with all the sites out there. We will continue to innovate new features that makes your browsing more pleasant. We aim to give you more control over your browsing. The idea is that you should feel the browser has been made for you. This is one of the reasons why we have so many different ways to do the same thing, as people are different and have different ways of working.

We will also work on improving the other parts of the program, such as the mail client, IRC client, RSS, News (nntp), etc. Each of these parts should follow the rule of being small, fast and user friendly.

3) Market growth?
by sheridan3003 (165213)

Do you find that the majority of Opera users are on the IT side of things, and if so how do you plan to get more users who are the "typical user", or only use their computer at work for their assigned tasks? Since IE is embedded when they get their new machine out of the box, how are you introducing Opera to users that probably have a limited understanding that they can have a different browser, or even more than one browser on their machine?

Jon von Tetzchner:

Our goal is to increase our user base significantly. Our user base in general has a higher degree of people which use the Internet extensively. Most of them have tried every other browser before choosing Opera. We consider it very important to focus on keeping our users happy and build from there. There is nothing better than a happy user and we will do what we can to innovate and push the limits to what you can expect in a browser. At the same time we will also try to remove any barriers for new users and make it easy for them to migrate to Opera.

In addition to this we will work on our distribution and marketing, of course, but nothing really beats a happy user that tells his friends and family.

4) Would you sell to Microsoft?
by lilmouse (310335)

Recently someone suggested that MS should simply buy Opera as a web browser for Vista. What do you think of that idea? Would you sell?

Jon von Tetzchner:

I am not interested in selling out to Microsoft. However, if Microsoft is interested in including Opera with Windows, we would be happy to provide them with it. I do believe that would be positive for the web in general.

5) Feature thieves
by tehshen (794722)

Opera has been an innovative browser for some time; it was one of the first to offer popup blocking, tabs (or MDI of some description), sessions, mouse gestures, and so on. However, since then, other browsers have implemented them as well; Firefox has extensions offering mouse gestures and sessions, and popup blocking and tabs are now commonplace. After offering so many features, would you prefer browsers such as Firefox and IE to come up with their own ideas instead of taking them from other browsers, or prefer the sharing of ideas so the web is better off overall?

Jon von Tetzchner:

Although our competitors have opened their eyes to some of our features, many are still only to be found in Opera and we aim to continue adding new ones. I am happy that we are considered the most innovate browser company and that is something we will be working hard to maintain. It is quite flattering that our features are being copied like that and I would prefer us to be in the position of being copied and not the other way around.

6) Google as a search partner?
by furnk (935156)

Can you offer more information on the terms of the recently announced agreement with Google?

What exactly is a "major presence"? Was Google just the obvious choice because of its scope, or is there some flirting going on in the hopes of a more lasting relationship?

Jon von Tetzchner:

Google provides what many people consider to be the best search engine. Our goal is to provide our users with the best solutions available, so Google was a natural choice, although there are other good choices out there.

The latest announcement about our agreement with Google with regards to Opera Mobile and Opera Mini states: "Opera will make Google Search a major part of the browser`s home screen." That means just that. Google search will be easy to find.

Google is an important partner of Opera and we hope to continue our cooperation into the future. Do not read anything more into that. It just means that we will always strive to get good partners for us to provide a strong product and thus increase our market share.

7) One critical thing missing from Opera...
by JaguarSavages (558510)

Better extensions/plugins. Firefox has earned great acclaim for its dynamic extension support. Extensions such as Fasterfox, Adblock, Web Developer, and many others are the sole reason people use Firefox over Opera (or any other browser). I know Opera is working to help unify the Netscape plugin API, but the upcoming version 9 doesn't appear to have anything that can match Firefox's extension capabilities. When will we see Opera support plugin/extensions as powerful as Firefox's?

Jon von Tetzchner:

Opera does have quite extensive extension capabilities today. User Javascipt is one such example. This is something we first used when we made the Bork version of Opera. We have later added this as a user feature and there are already more than 100 scripts available from the developer community. You can find a lot on userjs.org. Many of these script are very powerful.

Our concern with regards to extensions has been security and general usability. We have seen the number of security issues Microsoft has struggled with and many of them have been related to the APIs between the different applications. However, we do see a demand and we do tend to listen to demands from our users.

8) Will Opera ever go Open Source?
by PenguinBoyDave (806137)

I like Opera...in fact, I have stopped using Firefox in favor of Opera for reasons mentioned in someone elses question. Would you ever consider going back to charging for the browser, yet making it Open Source, and offering support for the paid version?

Jon von Tetzchner:

Thanks for choosing Opera. We apprieciate it. :)

We aim to keep Opera free. Our goal is to increase our market share and we have now taken a big step forward by making Opera free without a banner. We have already seen a good increase in downloads and we are adding significant resources to work on Opera in general and on the desktop.

I do not believe that making Opera open source would benefit us all that much. I do not think it has benefitted Netscape much either. I believe that we should work as closely with the community as possible and find ways to enable the community to engage and influence what we do to an even greater extent. I do not think that going open source would make us more efficient.

9) Web developers and Opera "testing"
by bushboy (112290)

I've worked in a few high profile companies in the UK who are all very serious about adhering to web standards, checking all designs in internet explorer, firefox and safari, but I've yet to encounter a company who will ensure that Opera renders page layouts correctly.

What level of market share would you say is required by Opera for web developers to ensure their layouts render correctly ?

Jon von Tetzchner:

IMHO, it is best for web developers to focus on following web standards. This still leaves them with having to code for IE, but most of the time, this will lead to the fastest and best result. I also think that is absolutely necessary as the web evolves from being desktop only to being cross-platform and cross-device.

I believe that web developers should strive to test with as many browsers as possible and that Opera should be part of that as one of the major browsers in the market. Very many sites are already testing with Opera as we do have a significant market share, with between 10 and 15 million active desktop users and more than 20 million mobile deployments so far.

10) Future of free version?
by simetra (155655)

Hi
I love Opera and bought it... several years ago, then a recent upgrade. THEN, you made it free!!!

So, that makes me think, maybe you made the PC version free, and are going to concentrate on the mobile versions, which you probably really make money on. Does this mean that the free PC version will stagnate? Or will future versions be built, with fun new features?

Also... how about a new logo? Or maybe a cross-marketing deal with Oprah?

Jon von Tetzchner:

We are increasing our efforts on the desktop as well as on mobile and other markets. We have big plans for our desktop version, so do not worry, you can expect even more in the future as we are adding programmers to work on the desktop as well as in the core, which benefits all versions of Opera.

No new logo is planned. Our feeling is that the current logo works well and it has been built over years. It is already being used by partners all across the world in promoting the fact that Opera comes with their products.

We have not plans for a cross-marketing deal with Oprah, but maybe it makes sense? :)

11) Bug tracking, developer tools and HTML/CSS/JS
by smurfsurf (892933)

1. Opera Bug Tracking System My experience with Opera's bug tracking system are rather frustrating. I can not check if some bug is already known (describing a bug and creating a test case is time consuming). Also, I reported some things and never ever got any feedback besides an automatic email. I do not know if Opera considers it a bug, if it is not a bug but an error on my side, if someone works on it, if it was fixed, simply nothing comes back. The Opera BTS is a black hole, and since some time now, I do not feel like making the effort to report bugs.

Do you plan to open up the BTS or at least allow the submitter to view the ticket? Or enhance the feedback?

Jon von Tetzchner:

Your feedback is well received. The BTS works very well for internal use, but I can understand that it is not optimal for those that would like to do more than just report an issue. We will discuss this internally and see what we can do. We still want it to be possible for people to register bugs without having to have an account in our system.

2. Developer Tools

How about a DOM Inspector (and a Javascript Debugger)? Firefox's DOM Inspector and XMLHttpRequest Monitor are dearly missing in Opera.

There are some excellent third party tools available (please see nontroppo.org/wiki/WebDevToolbar for a good starting point). We are also actively working on extending built-in solutions and there are some improvements with regards to that in Merlin as well. This is something we take very seriously as more and more people are using Opera to build applications.

3. HTML/CSS/JS

Any word on opacity support? On a Richtext Editing component?

Both are part of Merlin.

12) Norwegian babes
by HonkyLips (654494)

From previous Opera related posts on Slashdot, it has come to my attention that you have some real babes working for you in Norway. Are any of them single and if so, would they be interested in dating a guy who reads slashdot? BTW I use Safari but I can be persuaded to switch...

Jon von Tetzchner:

I must admit to not having total control over who of our employees are currently single and who are not, but I am sure some of our employees are single. However, who they date is clearly up to them.

I believe most people working at Opera read Slashdot either frequently or now and then. We are a very technical bunch.

Happy New Year to everybody at Slashdot! May the new year be very exciting and positive and peaceful!

-- Regards/Vennlig hilsen/Kær kvedja...
Jon S. von Tetzchner
Opera Software

Opera's Vision: www.opera.com/company/vision/

Comments

Serious? Joking?

[JonN]

"12) Norwegian babes
by HonkyLips (654494)

From previous Opera related posts on Slashdot, it has come to my attention that you have some real babes working for you in Norway. Are any of them single and if so, would they be interested in dating a guy who reads slashdot? BTW I use Safari but I can be persuaded to switch...

Jon von Tetzchner:

I must admit to not having total control over who of our employees are currently single and who are not, but I am sure some of our employees are single. However, who they date is clearly up to them. "

Wow...I'm still trying to figure out if they are both being serious...or if one side isn't holding up their end of the joke

Re:Serious? Joking?

[mudbogger]

Maybe he really does have control over who they date and is trying to play it off like he doesn't.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[tgd]

I'm just wondering how that question got submitted to them, but my +5 question asking for Kari's phone number on the Mythbusters interview didn't.

*grumbles*

Re:Serious? Joking?

[_xeno_]

Based on this, it would seem that Jon S. von Tetzchner does indeed have a sense of humor, so I'd guess that this was a strange attempt at some form of a joke. I think he's suggesting that they read Slashdot, so if any were actually interested, they could post here, and that's the joke?

But I could be wrong. I dunno. I really just wanted to post that link.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[MrHanky]

I believe the lack of obviousness on his part is the joke.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[ZachPruckowski]

Language issues perhaps? I mean, it seems like he speaks fine English, but having had a close friend from Germany and a current roommate from China, I can attest to the fact that jokes are the hardest things to translate (I speak minimal German, and no Chinese, they both speak very good English), because they are often rooted in idiom or plays on words. My German teacher said that you always lose something like 13% or so in even the best translations. This may be one of those cases.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[Emrikol]

Really! I was waiting on that myself also.

I guess I will have to make a trip to SF and stalk^H^H^H^Hask her myself.

*goes and gets the windowless van ready*

Re:Serious? Joking?

[sstidman]

You're right, and that's just one of the areas where he blew it. Opera would have been better served to keep their answers somewhat lighthearted instead of so stiff. He didn't really answer some of the questions well, I don't think. He says in a couple of places that they will be improving Opera in Merlin but he does not give any clues at all about what those improvements are. He had a great opportunity to list all the new features, but he didn't bother. His predictable answers seem like fluff written by a marketing stiff.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[Kelson]

I think it's straight-forward dry wit, though it's always easier to pull off in person than in text.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[jgrahn]

Language issues perhaps?

Don't think so. I interpret his answer as 70% playing along and 20% not wanting to exploit his coworkers' sexuality for PR purposes.

And there's always the 10% of any CEO who doesn't want his coders to have a life outside work at all ...

Re:Serious? Joking?

[chaals]

/me checks contract...

Nope. Gotta do work, expected to turn up from time to time for friday evening drinks unless I don't want to, get invited to parties, but nothing about who I date. Although I am not sure I was the employee in mind when the question was asked... ;)

But hey, what kind of question is it anyway? We work hard here, and we enjoy ourselves. Nobody found the photo of Jon stripping off to go swimming at the staff party, or some of the other fun stuff we do. But we're not for sale. Not as a company if Microsoft or Google or someone waves their millions, not as individuals because someone is prepared to swap from Safari to another browser (<troll>that is better anyway - I can't believe you think we can be taken for granted like that! ;) </troll> )

Re:Serious? Joking?

[Simon Brooke]

From previous Opera related posts on Slashdot, it has come to my attention that you have some real babes working for you in Norway. Are any of them single and if so, would they be interested in dating a guy who reads slashdot?

Last time I was over in Scandinavia (Sweden, actually, but... (much too long ago)) I met a very real babe who worked for Opera (and still does). Sadly, she's married. Even more sadly, happily. If you're reading, you know who you are... and I still wear the T shirt!

Re:Serious? Joking?

[tacid]

What's the matter with you /. guys? Can't understand humour without a ;) ending it? Just try using your imagination... Of course Jon von Tetzchner said this with a smile on his face...

However, it's a rather silly question, and not very funny, and I think Jon's rather dry but sarcastic reply fits it perfectly...

(and I am Norwegian, so I'm an expert on all Norwegians' sense of humour...) (if you didn't get the joke there, try inserting a ;) at the end of the line, before the closing parenthesis and compile it with your favourite plain text compiler)

Re:Serious? Joking?

[th3space]

Here's a thought. Maybe go to one of her showings are a gallery (try to go on opening night, that's when the artists are most likely to be in attendance), express interest in her works (some of which are very stunning and provocative), approach the curator regarding the acquisition of a piece and ask for an introduction to the artist. Focus on her creative works, not on her television persona, keep the conversation light and breezy, offer to fetch a drink for her, etc.

It is my suspicion that this would be a far more intimate way to go about gettin' some digits, ya dig? Jive turkey.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[g0_p]

Maybe he likes it "Steve Jobs" way and keep things under wraps until it is ready... especially since a lot of their innovative ideas keep getting copied by all the other browsers in the market.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[Jugalator]

He had a great opportunity to list all the new features, but he didn't bother.

Bother??

You know, they have competition both from at least two fronts with the IE guys hard at work nowadays too.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[NeutronCowboy]

And exactly what did you expect from him? He is the CEO of a public company, with rules and regulations that govern that position. One of them being that you don't blab in a public forum about stuff that hasn't been officially vetted by your legal/PR/marketing/tech departments. As a result, all questions that are directly product-related (what new features) will be stiff PR stuff. The only questions that could be light-hearted and off-the-cuff are the Oprah cross-marketing type questions - questions that are really not that relevant to people who need to calculate bottomlines and predict futures.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[th3space]

Only on Slashdot is tongue-in-cheek 'dating advice' referred to as being informative. Thanks for that, guys. ;)

Re:Serious? Joking?

[Anonymous Coward]

/me checks contract...

Nope. Gotta do work, expected to turn up from time to time for friday evening drinks unless I don't want to, get invited to parties, but nothing about who I date.

Chaals, you're a guy, your long hair notwithstanding.

Jón's reply can both be taken seriously and as a joke, and neither would be offensive.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[Tesla Tank]

My German teacher once said jokes are the hardest thing to understand in a foreign language. If you can understand jokes, then you have a firm grasp on the language.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[Anonymous Coward]

There also is the possibility (even for Slashdotters ;-) to visit Opera's site and read up on what more Opera 9/Merlin has to offer, even download a preview to experience first hand some of what is in store. With this in mind, there's no need to list up reams of features - these are already available to read.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

keep their answers somewhat lighthearted instead of so stiff

"I must admit to not having total control over who of our employees are currently single"

How is that not very lighthearted?

Re:Serious? Joking?

[XO]

He did mention a few of the functions that are new to O9. And if you actually go and download the O9 technology preview, you can play with some of them yourself.

A lot of stuff has not yet been completed for O9, though, and I don't think they are going to talk about too much until it is done.

Re:Serious? Joking?

[FurryFeet]

Yeah, but that would require leaving the computer and going out. Not cool.

Re:Tell me

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Norway, give them some sympathy

Merlin

[TheJavaGuy]

There is a lot of new things coming in Merlin. FYI, "Merlin" is the code name for Opera 9, the next major browser release.

Re:Merlin

[ToasterofDOOM]

I was really dissapointed as to how he responded to the requests for extensions. I recently switched to opera from firefox, but I really miss some of my extensions, namely foxytunes (best. extension. evar.) among others. It would totally be THE browser if it had a more powerful, open extensions API.

Re:Merlin

[Anonymous Coward]

Both merlins are sexy :)

Re:Merlin

[Bogtha]

It would totally be THE browser if it had a more powerful, open extensions API.

What's wrong with what they already have? I don't see why something like Foxytunes wouldn't be possible. In fact, Plugger, which is listed on that page, seems very similar.

Re:Merlin

[Jugalator]

At least he hinted that he understand the demand along with saying they listen to demands.

It's about as positive I think he can get without giving away any specific future plans, which he may not want to for competitive reasons or because that part is still sketchy as for its implementation.

Re:Merlin

[jp10558]

I think if you read the Opera forum wishlists, a large percentage of the vocal base (say up to 60%) actually prefer Opera does not have extensions. Specifically for the reason he listed (though there are many more), security.

I am one of those people, and I am glad Opera doesn't have extensions - for reasons I've expounded on at lenght in several wishlist threads.

Re:Merlin

[drinkypoo]

So wait, you don't want opera to have extensions because you're worried about security? You are aware that you don't have to install any extensions, right?

Re:Merlin

[jp10558]

The point is, I've seen too many programs, like Adobe Acrobat, install crap as toolbars and such that is then hard to remove. I just don't even want that possibility.

"Not having total control"

[ettlz]

I must admit to not having total control over who of our employees are currently single and who are not

Yeah, well just how far does your partial control extend?!

Re:"Not having total control"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, well just how far does your partial control extend?!

About 7 inches.

Re:"Not having total control"

[njfuzzy]

Presumably, he controls who he himself dates... well, to the degree that any of us here do.

Re:"Not having total control"

[tnk1]

He can order people to hand out their work numbers to people who inquire, but not their home numbers.

Re:"Not having total control"

[OblongPlatypus]

FWIW, that's an obvious direct translation from a Norwegian expression meaning to not have complete knowledge. He's trying to say he doesn't know whether each and every one of his employees are single or not.

As language pedant and a Norwegian, I find parts of this interview painful reading...

Re:"Not having total control"

[Dystopian Rebel]

As language pedant and a Norwegian, I find parts of this interview painful reading...

Well now, don't be too hard on the Americans' English. ;o)

Re:"Not having total control"

[justins]

It's less painfull after a glass of Aquavit. Or two.

Re:"Not having total control"

[Kjella]

It's less painfull after a glass of Aquavit. Or two.

But no more than two. Two of my friends got wasted for the first time on Aquavit from one of their parents' liquor cabinet. Hint: Not recommended.

Wait a minute!!!

[ptrangerv8]

How come it took him a year to reply to /. ? Aren't we good enough for him, or were all those 'hot Norwegian babes' distracting him?

Re:Wait a minute!!!

[Kelson]

Yeah, these questions were asked in 2005!

Who Needs Opera...

[webword]

...when the Google Browser is on the way! ;-)

Re:Who Needs Opera...

[Kelson]

What's really funny is that a few weeks ago, people were citing gbrowser.com as "evidence" of a Google takeover of Opera.

Just goes to show that wild speculation never disappears, it just changes in the details. Hmm, kind of like urban legends. There may be something to that...

Re:Who Needs Opera...

[DorkusMasterus]

Not trying to flamebait, really, but anyone who uses a blog entry from almost a year and a half ago to make ANY kind of point, especially in terms of speculatory vaporware... well.. I don't understand it. Your point is lessened IMHO, instead of bolstered. Now, if you were trying to be funny, then, why support it with an out of date link? Honest, I'm not trying to rip on you, as much as the odd choices in your post.

Re:Who Needs Opera...

[webword]

I just happen to like the references in that blog posting. I haven't seen many other good consolidated overviews of the Google Operating System. In any case, good points!

Question that was omitted

[glomph]

"Tell us, Jon, all Slashdotters need to know: Is it really over when the Fat Lady sings?"

Re:Question that was omitted

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually in operas it's all over when the fat lady stops signing.

Dupe in the Q&A

[hal2814]

Can't even get through a Q&A without a dupe? Why is question 1 repeated in question 4? I realize they're not exactly the same but the information we get from 1 is the same as what we get from 4 and it should've been pretty obvious that would be the case.

Re:-1, Troll

[taskforce]

Well, if you actually read the content of the stories, you'll see it's becuase Opera continues to innovate despite its marketshare. Opera Mini is perhaps under reported for what it actually is.

Re:-1, Troll

[JonN]

Underneath IE and FF you have Opera, which true, doesn't hold that much of the market. However Opera is a potential big player, because mobile internet is becoming more popular (Just look on the headlines today) and Opera is so far one of the best suited browsers for portable hardware.

Aylar

[Anonymous Coward]

Google it. Glad you did.

Someone switched because of ACID2????

[b7j0c]

This is just moronic. Its a compliance test.

Re:Someone switched because of ACID2????

[Kelson]

It's not even really a compliance test. It's a kick in the pants for browser developers to fill in a bunch of unused corners of the specs (in the hopes that they'll one day be usable).

Passing Acid2 doesn't mean you comply with CSS 2.1, HTML 4.01, or any other spec -- it just means you correctly implement the particular rules that Acid2 tests. It's theoretically possible for browser A to pass 90% of the spec and not pass Acid2, and browser B to pass 85% of the spec including Acid2.

So far Safari, Konqueror, and iCab have passed, and Opera is very close (Opera 9 preview 1 has something like one Acid2 bug left, and they may have fixed it in internal builds by now.) We'll probably see Firefox catching up in 2.0 or 3.0 (I can't remeber which is going to use Gecko 1.9).

There are may reasons to use Opera, but a preview release nearly passing Acid2 isn't one of them.

Re:Someone switched because of ACID2????

[Threni]

Yeah, he's dropping Firefox because it doesn't natively support something unimportant that Opera also doesn't support. Oh, and don't forget the all-important eye candy and general coolness.

Looks like the average IQ of both Firefox and Opera users just went up a notch.

Re:Someone switched because of ACID2????

[HeroreV]

We'll probably see Firefox catching up in 2.0 or 3.0 (I can't remeber which is going to use Gecko 1.9).

Firefox won't be getting Gecko 1.9 until Firefox 3.0, which is set to be released in 2007. Firefox 1.5 uses Gecko 1.8.0 and Firefox 2.0 will use Gecko 1.8.1, which is not allowed to have large changes or changes to already implemented features. Thus, Firefox won't be passing Acid 2 for at least a year. At least that's the way I understand it.

Open Source Opera

[everphilski]

I do not believe that making Opera open source would benefit us all that much. I do not think it has benefitted Netscape much either. I believe that we should work as closely with the community as possible and find ways to enable the community to engage and influence what we do to an even greater extent. I do not think that going open source would make us more efficient.

Wow. Sit back and enjoy a cold one while we watch the Open Source fanboys rip him a new one :)

Re:Open Source Opera

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. Sit back and enjoy a cold one

Necrophilia is just plain wrong, dude.

Re:Open Source Opera

[pHatidic]

I think Firefox has benefitted much more from its open source style community than from the actual source code being open. However, if the source code weren't open then the community wouldn't have been formed around it. Sort of an interesting paradox.

Re:Open Source Opera

[Kelson]

I do not think it has benefitted Netscape much either.

Actually, he's right about that part, if you look at it from a corporate perspective. Mozilla wasn't able to save Netscape -- the company and brand name -- from Microsoft or from AOL. It was, however, able to spin off a new, successful project from the original Netscape browser.

It's kind of like how comparitively open hardware helped IBM's PC platform win the PC vs. Mac war, but IBM itself lost marketshare to competitors and eventually wrote off its PC manufacturing division.

Re:Open Source Opera

[Perky_Goth]

could've been a troll, but it isn't.
i can see that it wouldn't benefit them if their business model is to sell the browser. which isn't actually true for desktop computers.

but free software fanatics couldn't care less, they have a great free browser (well, more than one, really) already and don't care about other browsers. they just want their PC to be actually theirs.

Re:Open Source Opera

[TheDugong]

You forgot to mention the benefit of the IBM PC being open to society as a whole.

If the IBM PC had been kept proprietary, would computing be as cheap and ubiquitous as it is today?

URL Autocomplete

[31415926535897]

Some of these features are by request from our user community, so feel free to add your own requests.

One feature I got hooked on back in the day was auto-URL completion by using Ctrl. So you type in "google" into the address bar, hit Ctrl+Enter, and the url would automagically become http://www.google.com/ . Firefox took this a step further and have made Shift+Ctrl+Enter .org, and Shift+Enter .net. Naturally, I habitually did this in Opera when I tried it out, and it would not auto-complete, it would fail and then try .com, and by the time it got around to getting the url right, I could just type it in by hand. I think it would be nice to at least be able to turn this feature on.

The real reason I moved back to Firefox after I tried Opera (and I gave it a good month) was because one day, Gmail just stopped working. On different days, both at work and at home, I could not log back into Gmail no matter what I did (short of reinstalling Opera, because I'm just too lazy to do that). This also happened to a coworker; he switched back too.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[SFalcon]

I also miss the Ctrl-Enter shortcut from other browsers.

In regards to Gmail, I've found that setting Opera to clear the cache upon exit greatly decreases the amount of times it hands at the "loading..." page. I believe it has something to do with how Opera caches the scripts on gmail.com, and this workaround has made it almost never happen anymore.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[lowrydr310]

The real reason I moved back to Firefox after I tried Opera (and I gave it a good month) was because one day, Gmail just stopped working. On different days, both at work and at home, I could not log back into Gmail no matter what I did (short of reinstalling Opera, because I'm just too lazy to do that). This also happened to a coworker; he switched back too.

Same here. I actually have Opera and Firefox installed on my machine. I *try* to use Opera since it sounds promising, but it always fails on Javascript. Gmail doesn't work correctly all the time. Just yesterday Yahoo! mail wasn't rendering properly - the buttons were overlapping the body text in my email, and none of the button functions worked either. The biggest reason I don't use Opera is because a website my wife needs to use for work won't render properly. Again, it's a javascript error; a js menubar with pulldowns doesn't display properly.

Firefox crashes on me a lot, especially when I have too many tabs open. 9 times out of 10, Firefox 'crashes' when I close it. Instead of closing normally, an error message occurs stating that there was a problem (not sure of the specific wording, but it doesn't close properly). It's normally not a big deal since I'm closing it anyway, but it's still not very tidy.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Anonymous Coward]

When using Opera, I don't understand why people type 'www.google.com' and then enter the search after that page loads.

To search for "foobar" using google, I just type this in the URL bar (works for both Firefox and Opera):

g foobar

This is something I configured in Firefox so I'm not sure if Opera does this by default or if it imported this from my Firefox settings.

Also, there's the 'google search' field next to the URL bar but then I'd have to remember another shortcut key.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Anonymous Coward]

My problem with gmail under Opera is that it no longer seems to do autocomplete when I'm typing an email address into the "To:" box like it used to. I'm guessing it's related to the scripting not caching something or other, but I have no idea...I miss that feature, though...

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Kelson]

I could not log back into Gmail no matter what I did

I used to have problems with logging into sites on Opera. There was a period of time when I had to log into my.opera.com using Firefox (oh, the irony!). It turns out that Opera's behind-the-scenes cookie management is not always intuitive.

I wrote up my findings last summer, but the basic issue is with cookie permissions. "Treat as specified in Server Manager" seems to ignore any cookies that you haven't explicitly allowed in the Manage Cookies dialog, and some sites require you to accept third-party cookies. From what I can tell, there are situations in which site1.example.com sets a cookie for example.com (so that site2.example.com can read it), but the cookie is interpreted as a third-party cookie, so if you have told Opera to block third-party cookies it'll just ignore the cookie, preventing you from logging in.

Hope this helps

Re:URL Autocomplete

[aconkling]

The real reason I moved back to Firefox after I tried Opera (and I gave it a good month) was because one day, Gmail just stopped working. On different days, both at work and at home, I could not log back into Gmail no matter what I did (short of reinstalling Opera, because I'm just too lazy to do that). This also happened to a coworker; he switched back too.

I have an even better idea. If you like Opera, it'd probably be easier to search for your problem rather than customize a different browser. The Opera forums are a great place to find information and to report bugs.

(For what it's worth, I remember hearing about problems with GMail on the first technical preview of Opera 9.)

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Anonymous Coward]

You should look at the very powerfull nickname feature in Opera! When you bookmark one of your favorite sites, you enter the name of it in the "Nickname" inputbox. Then later you just type alt+F2 and begin to type the name, when you have entered enough letters to make Opera find your site, it immedietly opens it.

Later you must ofcourse map this features to F1.

To enter slashdot: F1+.

KnutM
Norway dude

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Kelson]

I believe the feature ("g foobar") is a default in Opera.

Me, I just use the search box in both.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Anonymous Coward]

URL completion can be set up in Opera by going to tools\preferences\advanced then go to shortcuts and keyboard setup.

Click to edit a keyboard setup. Then go to advanced\edit widget. Here you will add the shortcuts for autocomplete

For example you can set the input context/shortcut as "alt+f3" and set the actions as:

Go to line end & Insert, ".org" & Go to line start & Insert, "www." & Go

This will add www and .org to the text typed in the address bar when you hit alt+f3.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Echnin]

Default behavior. This is also configurable in Opera, but unsupported (google "opsed" for the easy way). Another neat thing about Opera is being able to set nicknames for bookmarks; I have "slash" for this site, "sa" for somethingawful, and several other nicknames. You can also do this with folders; "com" opens up all bookmarks in my webcomics folder. Check it out. The address bar is very useful. One nitpick I had with Firefox the last time I tried it was that opening a new tab didn't immediately register my keys; I'd press ctrl-t, enter the address, press enter, and end up at "shdot.org". Another reason for sticking with Opera for me is that the page zoom feature is so essential that I hate using a browser without it, at least when using it full-screen on a monitor with 1600x1200.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[DNS-and-BIND]

Is it THAT MUCH TROUBLE to type in .com? I mean, seriously. I have myself so trained to type in .net, .com, or .org after a URL, I'd save about 1/10 of a second by doing a Shift-Ctrl-Enter chord.

Translation: a queer effect of a browser I got used to doesn't work in Opera. Can you implement, bugtest, QA, and deploy a feature that me and three other people will use?

Re:URL Autocomplete

[baadger]

It's default behaviour.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[hackstraw]

I would guess other browsers are similar, but in Safari, I type usually 1 or 2 characters in my address bar after typing Apple-L to load the location. If its a site I've been to recently or is bookmarked, I'm there. If its a new site, I hit tab and then put the company name in the google search and the first link will usually suffice.

Having to press shift+control+enter takes me about the same time as pressing .org. Having to press shift+enter is about the same as typing .net. Having to remember 1 to 2 characters of an URL ... or not having to remember if .org is shift+control+enter vs shift+enter -- sanity.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the same problem.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Threni]

> Translation: a queer effect of a browser I got used to
> doesn't work in Opera. Can you implement, bugtest, QA, and
> deploy a feature that me and three other people will use?

It's a trivial fix. It's handy and an obvious feature to implement. It's not just .com it adds but the http www stuff on the left too. Computers exist to make life easier for the user, not vice versa!

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to press anything in Opera, thats the beauty of it. Just type "google" and press enter. Voila! You're at the Google home page.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Damek]

type in "google" into the address bar, hit Ctrl+Enter [...] Firefox took this a step further and have made Shift+Ctrl+Enter .org, and Shift+Enter .net

But not on Macs. I've never been able to get these tricks to work on the Mac, which sucks because I use them all the time on my Windows machines. But then Safari is more than good enough, so... I wish it had this feature, though.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[fbg111]

Naturally, I habitually did this in Opera when I tried it out, and it would not auto-complete, it would fail and then try .com, and by the time it got around to getting the url right, I could just type it in by hand. I think it would be nice to at least be able to turn this feature on.

Better yet, just search from Opera address bar. Type "g kerneltrap" into the address bar, hit Enter, and voila - Google search results page. Of course this doesn't apply if all you want is the Google home page, but personally I love this feature.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[cthrall]

? Yes, it's that much trouble. I never want to be without Ctrl-Enter.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[nutshell42]

I think the cookie management is one of the major flaws of Opera.

I really like the browser but why oh why can't they simply copy Firefox, Konqueror or half a dozen other browsers?

If they'd only change the fact that the cookie dialog always defaults to the same value, not the one you chose the last time. So most times you have to use the dropdown menu (in itself slower than bullet points) and most times you also have to disallow both cookies and third party cookies for any given domain because somehow the first doesn't include the second (even if I've heard people say differently, it never worked that way for me).

That means the only workable way to manage your cookies in Opera is to start with a fresh Opera installation, allow all cookies, visit all sites from which you need cookies, disallow all new cookies. Stupid.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[jp10558]

Actually, I understand people wanting that feature, and if Opera wouldn't be pigheaded, their current keyboard mapping ability *could* allow it if they didn't disallow certain random keys (like enter) from being mapped.

That all said, if you turn off another stupid default (the check for local lan addresses) which should be off by default ... then finding www.foo.com from foo is instaneous.

And if you are going to sites frequently, I find (for instance) that setting a bookmark with a nickname is much faster.

sd [enter] is far faster than slashdot [shift]+[enter] or whatever the .org keybinding is.

But it also depends on how you work - I rarely type in url's, I'm clicking them, or copying them. I suppose if you type in a url multiple times a day, that shift-enter and alt enter or whatever is important. ctrl-enter is implemented just as enter (if you remove the search for local addresses) and hence available.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[bhtooefr]

Better method: Set gmail.google.com, mail.google.com, and gmail.com to 1 in the ua.ini (on Windows, C:\Documents and Settings\%USERNAME%\Application Data\Opera\Opera\profile\ua.ini, on Linux ~/.opera/profile/ua.ini).

Re:URL Autocomplete

[LMariachi]

Safari has had autocomplete built-in for a while. Start typing in the address bar and it shows a progressively-shrinking drop-down menu of matching urls from your history & bookmarks, sorted by frequency of visit.

Even better, go install the Sogudi extension. You get a customizable list of search engines and abbreviations, so that you can type "goo britney spears" or "mov king kong" or "amz oprah book club" and immediately get the google, imdb, or amazon results for those queries. Comes with about a dozen, which you can change or add to as you please.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[Damek]

Yes, I'm aware of all that. The Firefox autocomplete which we were talking about is different, and something I wish Safari could also do, for those sites which I don't visit often enough to have in my bookmarks or history, or for those times when I want to go to a sogudi site's front page rather than search it. It's a silly little thing, only not having to type in "www." and ".com" or ".org" or ".net" - but it's usually the silly little things that one misses.

Re:URL Autocomplete

[drinkypoo]

One feature I got hooked on back in the day was auto-URL completion by using Ctrl.

I thought that was an IE-introduced feature. It's certainly been there for ages longer than moz. I have never paid much attention to opera because I don't feel like paying for a web browser, and unless you are on a POS computer, the speed issue is pretty irrelevant, so I don't know where that feature came from for sure.

Re: Why Opera?

[lilmouse]

"Why so much focus on an alternative browser with even less market penetration than Firefox..."

Maybe for the same reasons we have so much news about Firefox, even tho it's got much less market share then IE. Opera is one of the biggest browsers; they're a company who make money; and they've probably got a bigger market share on mobiles.

Besides, they're not MS :-) So yeah, expect news stories about them!

--LWM

ps - I was very tempted to mod you "overrated" without a Troll...

Yet another corny "next/last year" joke......

[ShyGuy91284]

I expec...... Ok, maybe I didn't expect better. But year jokes (most notibly "Cya next year!") have got to be one of my biggest pet peeves.... Especially when the same person does it every year.......

Re:Yet another corny "next/last year" joke......

[greenegg77]

But year jokes (most notibly "Cya next year!") have got to be one of my biggest pet peeves....

Didn't you get pissed off about that last year?

You missed me

[FortKnox]

Do me a fav... go to the question story, change to 'highest score first' and you'll find my thread at the top, score:5. I had, what I thought, was a good question. Why was it not asked? It was the first top rated question, yet not included. I really wanted to hear his insight on it.

Re:You missed me

[Roblimo]

Grammar and capitalization errors, plus other questions covered essentially the same material.

I follow your journal and like it, so please don't think it was anything personal.

- Robin

Re:You missed me

[FortKnox]

Grammar and capitalization errors...
Bah! I'm an engineer, not a novelist! ;)
Didn't take it personally... figured there was a good answer. Thanks for responding.

Re:You missed me

[Anonymous Coward]

Grammar and capitalization errors

No offence, but since when have Slashdot had high standards in this respect?

Re:You missed me

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops, my mistake. Slashdot has high standards when it comes to grammar and spelling. I quote:

Strive for correct spelling, grammar and punctuation in your review (and proofread with these in mind) but don't agonize over minutia. (Please run your review through a spell-checker before submitting, though.)

I think I'm in Bizarro World!

Re:You missed me

[hkmwbz]

"I had, what I thought, was a good question. Why was it not asked?"

Maybe because it was crap and you are not up to date?

"How do you plan on making money when a free, open source product is directly competing with you?"

Opera is free as in beer now. Open source is irrelevant to most people. And competition doesn't mean that one can't make money.

Remember the Mozilla Corporation and how it was formed recently? They want to make money too!

So basically, your question was just completely stupid because Opera is freeware now.

Re:You missed me

[Deviant Q]

Why was it not asked?

Because you whine too much :-P. I kid, I kid...

I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm thinking of going back to Firefox because the damned advertising images on slashdot is frequently a double-image.

It doesn't always happen but Opera needs to fix this bug. Who wants the same advertising image to show up twice on the same page? On other sites, sometimes the duplicate ad image covers up part of the text so you can't even read the article.

If it wasn't for this damned bug, Opera 8.51 would be the best browser I've tried by far on Windows 2000/XP.

Maybe the CEO should spend more time making sure his company improves the quality of their products than doing interviews.

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[necronom426]

I'm currently using 8.51 and have been using various versions of Opera for about 5 years. I have never seen anything like you describe in Slashdot or anywhere else.

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[KDR_11k]

Slashdot isn't the only page with double ads.

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[SylvesterTheCat]

I concur with necronom426. I am using Opera 8.5.1 on Debian/SPARC, WinXP, and Debian/x86. I have never seen that behavior.

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me chalk up one point for always having used Opera for Slashdot and not having seen this.

That being said, I do see advertisements occasionally float over or under text on a news page, but I can't say that's Opera's fault any more than the guy who wrote the CSS geared for IE.

I've always been very pleased with Opera, and with Nontroppo's Kill button, you can just click and kill any element on the page anyway.

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[FromWithin]

I've seen that happen, but I just block the ads with the built-in filter. I suggest that you do the same:

http://nontroppo.org/wiki/BlockAdvertisements

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[Kelson]

I've seen it from time to time. I think it's only Flash ads that have the problem.

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[jlarocco]

Best bet is to use Proxomitron. There are a few really good filter sets for it that can block almost all advertisements, even text ads. It takes a little bit of tweaking, but once you have Proxomitron configured to your liking, you can tell IE, Firefox, Konqueror, or any other web browser to use it also. If you're really adventurous, you can even make it do stuff like rewrite search results to have inline previews of the results, but that's a little more difficult.

I'm too lazy to look up the links right now, but a minute on google should turn up all the relevant info.

Oh yeah, it's windows only, but it works under Wine without a problem.

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[jp10558]

Blatent plug - I have a set that I maintain, derived from Grypen (derived from JD5000 - man I sound like Opera's default UA string) that is targeted towards Opera, and delivered as a zip file. Available at www.streamload.com/jp10558/public .

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[bhtooefr]

Seen them since the 7.5x days.

Win32.

And I run with plugins turned off, normally, so it's not Flash, either. I suspect that it IS flash detection routines, however.

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[HeroreV]

Can the lists be updated automatically like the Adblock Filterset.G Updator extension does?

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[NuclearDog]

As a big Opera fan (border-line zealot), I hate to post this, but yeah, I've seen exactly what he has described. In fact, I have screenshots.

(obnoxiously large PNGs ahead...)
onlamp.com in Internet Explorer
onlamp.com in Opera (this occured repeatedly (after multiple refreshes))
Source to onlamp.com (provided by Opera) - they aren't serving code with that image in it twice AFAICT

Another annoying bug which is quite a bit less frequent is a sudden split in the page, sometimes only part of the page, where all of a sudden parts of words on one side will be a couple px lower than the other. Sometimes, many pixels lower (warning: obnoxiously large png).

All in all, the speed, much lower memory usage and tendancy not to exhibit some of the more annoying Firefox bugs (which usually required me to kill FF, losing all I was working on) more than make up for these small annoyances, but I still never like to pass up a chance to bitch about things ;P

ND

Re:I'm reading this using Opera 8.51 but...

[smurfsurf]

> I suspect that it IS flash detection routines, however.

Yes, I have this just now. Turning off plugins: double HTML-banners. Turning on plugins: one HTML-banner.

So basically, the JS code the advertisers use is borked up.

Woah, smaller and faster

[merc]

I'm impressed. When is the last time you've heard a product rep. assert that they're trying to make their product smaller?

Re:Woah, smaller and faster

[Anonymous Coward]

They need to... they must be competitive in the "small and slow" mobile device market.

Re:Woah, smaller and faster

[Kelson]

When is the last time you've heard a product rep. assert that they're trying to make their product smaller?

Well, the last time I was at a nanotech conference...

Re:Woah, smaller and faster

[globalar]

When there is actual competition, not just two companies bouncing off one another. Now that we have three serious browsers again, Microsoft's IE Gorilla has to compete with both a lighter, refined Opera and an infinitely customizable, OS Firefox. I expect this particular emphasis has to do with Opera on the cellphones, which seems to be where they will try to make their stand against IE.

Re:Woah, smaller and faster

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember when Opera fit on a floppy disk. I also remember it stopped fitting about the time it became adware.

Re:Woah, smaller and faster

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember when people used floppy disks.

Re:Woah, smaller and faster

[Anonymous Coward]

OK... and now it's not adware anymore, and it still doesn't fit. No one cares anymore about whether or not their software can fit on a floppy disk.

Re:Woah, smaller and faster

[roman_mir]

As Opera's size approaches 1Kb, it's coolness factor approaches infinity. Unfortunately there is a size threshold, after which they will have to remove features from the browser to make it any smaller. At some point it will be so cool, that it will do absolutely nothing except starting up and showing the Opera's new logo. The tooltip over the logo will read: 'You have reached the end of the Internet. There is no spoon.'

Re:Woah, smaller and faster

[hkmwbz]

"I remember when Opera fit on a floppy disk. I also remember it stopped fitting about the time it became adware."

That's a load of crap. Opera [b]4[/b] didn't fit on a floppy, and it was not adware.

Standard fare responses

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to use Opera and am glad it continues to exist but these responses are very straight, PR type reponses, more appropriate for their investor relations page than a geek journal. Opera have a great browser and my eternal respect for their stance on software patents but the community aspect seems to be a little artificial, more of a reaction to mozilla than genuine grass roots support. Microsoft could easily create a copycat IE community without sacrificing any of their, corporate err... values.

And if that wasn't bad enough...

[PCM2]

Yeah, and there's another glaringly obvious flaw in the interview, too. Check it out: Question 4 and Question 1 are almost exactly the same! Why so many dupes?

Re:And if that wasn't bad enough...

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been hired as an editor. Turn up in the office at 10am tomorrow.

Sincerely,
CmdrTaco

Re:And if that wasn't bad enough...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dupe post!

Calling all Norwegian babes reading slashdot...

[digitaldc]

There are nerds in the US that want to meet you!

But the question is, would you want to meet them?

Re:Calling all Norwegian babes reading slashdot...

[thehunger]

But why would they want to? There are plenty of geeks available locally.

Re:Calling all Norwegian babes reading slashdot...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why making the effort going floors downstairs, when there is Trolltech just one floor downstairs? Besides, there are 200+ dudes in-house, and none of them are obese.

Opera use in business

[B Man]

I have in the past been a sys admin, security admin, network admin, software developer, project manager, integrater, consultant and currently a software tester, so I am pretty well informed on technology.

Thats my background, but whats funny is that in my history, the people who have used and liked opera have been business types. I have one past customer in particular, he uses opera on his primary browsing computer. But he isnt typical in any way, as this customer has been known to be a technological slug. He still does most of his work on a Windows 98 box using all DOS based software. He uses FirstChoice for word processing, a proprietary app for controlling alarm systems, and other long outdated software. Now even though I have updated everyone else in his office to current software, he continues to keep what he says "works". This is why he only uses Opera now. He had at one time many, many problems with his computers (mostly because of old software, virii, and spyware), including Internet Explorer. So he got to a point where pages just wouldn't load, and when they did not for long as popups would take over and he didnt recognize a concept of trusted hosts. So when he asked me to find another solution for him, I had installed and loaded Netscape, and because of his internet habits, it too became unusable. As this was years ago, at the time I had never used opera, but knew of it. I loaded opera and co-learned with him how to use it for basic browsing, and never looked back. With the new wave of usage of Firefox, I had recently installed it to all other office pc's and all users were comfortable and loving it. So I tried to add firefox for him too, and still even with adblock, etc he still couldnt use it. But opera he is so comfortable with he will not change now. He loves it, it does exactly what it is supposed to, and it has never not worked. This is the key for him, that it doesnt just work, but works everytime. And the fact that it shows some ads has never seemed to bother him at all. He just doesnt want to think about how or why or even what works. So with better exposure I'm sure alot more people would use opera over firefox. Not because of this or that feature, but because of stability and reliability. The web browser is your window to the internet, so what need is there for another set of windows underneath, just tabs. ;)

Re:Opera use in business

[HeroreV]

Opera: The Browser For Dummies?

Nothing wrong with that, and I sure wouldn't mind it. Perhaps then there would be less of a push to dumb Firefox down and it could fully be the browser of nerds.

Benefit to Netscape the Company vs the Browsers

[Noksagt]

I do not believe that making Opera open source would benefit us all that much. I do not think it has benefitted Netscape much either.

Wow. Sit back and enjoy a cold one while we watch the Open Source fanboys rip him a new one :)

I am quite a fan boy (plug: donate to F/OSS projects).

But he is right: Mozilla/Firefox probably didn't benefit Netscape. The company.

They open sourced it in 1998. Months later, they were bought by AOL & left to stagnate as a company. Their self-named browser is still unpopular. Fortunantely the open source derivatives aren't.

Netscape-derived browsers would probably be dead were it not for open source. They might have continued to cling at the niche of a few corporate deployments (as it was free, fairly easy to remotely administer, and was not IE), but that's it. There would be fewere fans, fewer promotion, and fewer users. They would not have put out anything like Firefox, which required some minimal level of community.

So open source proved good for users. Possibly good for the internet. It wasn't necessarily good for AOL-Netscape.

Re:Benefit to Netscape the Company vs the Browsers

[einhverfr]

But he is right: Mozilla/Firefox probably didn't benefit Netscape. The company.

Who else thinks we wouldn't have a Netscape browser today offered by any company if it wasn't open sourced back in 1998.

What did in Netscape had nothing to do with FOSS. It had to do with Microsoft. This is all relatively well documented in the lawsuit USDoJ v. Microsoft (IANAL, but it is worth reading the findings of fact, etc. and the appellate ruling). By the time Netscape was opened up, it was way too late for the company to build any sort of buisiness around it--- they had a steep uphill battle against the most powerful company in the industry.

This being said, I think it is very likely that it has helped Netscape's successor-in-interest, AOL. So while I think the reply might be technically correct, it isn't really very encompassing.

As for Opera, I don't make judgements about whether their company would be better off open sourcing the browser. Certainly they will need to compete with FOSS versions whether they do or not, and FOSS is competitively a double-edged sword. I am sure that if they wanted to make that transition, they would start by reducing the price to free of their desktop version and build a healthy services business around the product. THen it could be open sourced to Opera's benefit. But they wouldn't say so due to shareholder concerns until they were ready.

Re:Benefit to Netscape the Company vs the Browsers

[hackstraw]

Netscape-derived browsers would probably be dead were it not for open source

FWIW, there are no Netscape derived browsers anymore.

Mozilla was at first a stripped down Netscape, then rewritten. For more than enough info read http://ilias.ca/MozillaNetscapeRelationship.html or the specific quote:

"When the Mozilla project began, much of the feedback was that the code itself was too complicated to learn and contribute to. As a result, there was little in contributions from outside Netscape employees. It was decided that it would be best to change the layout engine, which constituted a total rewrite of the code. The new layout (Gecko) was cleaner and much easier to learn, thus contributions would increase. Netscape Communicator was laid to rest, and Mozilla.org had a completely separate product."

"Netscape" browsers were just old repackaged Mozilla browsers that somebody put together because some PHBs remembered when Netscape == browser.

Re:Benefit to Netscape the Company vs the Browsers

[einhverfr]

Fair enough but would the gecko rewrite have happened if Netscape 5 had not been open sourced?

Re:Benefit to Netscape the Company vs the Browsers

[justins]

Who else thinks we wouldn't have a Netscape browser today offered by any company if it wasn't open sourced back in 1998.

Uh... we don't?

Re:Benefit to Netscape the Company vs the Browsers

[drinkypoo]

I fully agree. Granted, Netscape has no popularity today, but they're still around! Or at least, a browser called Netscape is still around. Netscape had turned into pure crap (in version 4) and it would be nothing but a smoking hole in the ground now were it not for the Mozilla project.

He didn't answer the question!

[Oldsmobile]

One critical thing missing from Opera...
by JaguarSavages (558510)

Better extensions/plugins. Firefox has earned great acclaim for its dynamic extension support. Extensions such as Fasterfox, Adblock, Web Developer, and many others are the sole reason people use Firefox over Opera

Hey, whats up with the answer to this question?! He dind't answer it at all! This is the only reasons I don't use Opera, and he basically brushed this question off!

Re:He didn't answer the question!

[abigor]

I know, and it's too bad. I would dump Firefox the slow memory hog in a second if Opera supported easy to use ad-blocking.

Re:He didn't answer the question!

[Aranth Brainfire]

Jon von Tetzchner:

Opera does have quite extensive extension capabilities today. User Javascipt is one such example. This is something we first used when we made the Bork version of Opera. We have later added this as a user feature and there are already more than 100 scripts available from the developer community. You can find a lot on userjs.org. Many of these script are very powerful.

Our concern with regards to extensions has been security and general usability. We have seen the number of security issues Microsoft has struggled with and many of them have been related to the APIs between the different applications. However, we do see a demand and we do tend to listen to demands from our users.

So, they're looking into it. Might happen, might not, don't know, we're thinking.

Re:He didn't answer the question!

[AdamWeeden]

I agree 100%. Right now there are no browsers I wholeheartedly love, and that pains me. I was, up until recently, a Firefox user for the past 2 years, but the memory leaks/cpu usage finally drove me away. I'm now using Maxthon, but something about having IE as the core makes me feel dirty. I decided to give Opera a shot recently, and simply on not being able to painlessly set up an ad blocker, I have decided it's not currently an option for me. Something spending 20 minutes adding some obscure script or running a program in the background to add a URL to block makes me think that the Opera team takes something I consider high priority and assign it a second class citizenship. I'm tempted to switch back to Firefox (probably 1.0.7 since I've heard that my issues got worse in 1.5) but I think my wife may kill me if I have to say to her again "No don't use %oldbrowser% anymore, I installed %newbrowser%."

Re:He didn't answer the question!

[Joe Tie.]

I was pretty disapointed with that as well. I'm on a guest computer right now, and firefox actually crashes X after extended use. And I'm 'still' using firefox instead of opera, just because it takes less time to log back into KDE than it did to manually do all the things the firefox extensions provide. Bookmarklets really aren't the full answer to the problem, and seeing the official position being that it is, I've lost a lot of hope for opera coming back as my main browser. Which really is a pity because I think it's the better browser, and really like the QT based interface.

Re:He didn't answer the question!

[jp10558]

Well, I think the case is that AdBlocking doesn't seem to be a priority for Opera software. Actually I think it has everything to do with how they make money - it's based on ad clicks at google, and similar at other partner sites. They aren't going to introduce something that a) pisses off many websites so they block the browser entirely; and b) destroys their revenue stream.

That said, there is always AdMuncher which does a good job blocking ads, and I use proxomitron which also does a good job.

Re:He didn't answer the question!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, yes he did answer the question. Just because they're not called "Extensions Like Firefox" doesn't mean they're not extensions :)

re: ad blocking... I just use Opera's quick preferences dialog to turn off animated graphics and plugins (or more accurately, they're disabled 99% of the time and flicked back on when I actually want them). Unless you are *really* anti-ads (not saying I don't understand that p.o.v.), this does cut them out pretty effectively (particularly combined with Opera's popup blocker). Keep in mind that the reason banners got replaced with Flash is that nobody notices banners :)

Re:He didn't answer the question!

[wheany]

Opera needs only one change to make making Firefox-like Adblock possible: Allow user javascript to read and write to disk in some limited way.

You can already run custom (user java)scripts (that can use regular expressions to block/remove ads) and create and add new buttons to toolbars. You only need some way of storing the regular expressions and other settings.

John Tesh?

[eno2001]

He's done more than record a few lame "new age" albums?

Re:Tell me

[Anonymous Coward]

You care because you want to be Jon's love slave.

Re:-1, Troll

[toriver]

In less than the past month, we've had 7 stories dedicated to Opera,

By your reasoning, Microsoft bought Slashdot years ago.

even less market penetration than Firefox and a smaller chance of long-term survival?

Can you run Firefox on a mobile phone? Thought so. And are you arware that Opera have been around for many years and have a healthy economy? What do you put into "long-term survival", then?

Do you also complain when car sites write about Ferraris instead of "market penetration studs" like Toyota or Volvo?

XMLHttpRequest Monitor?

[Eric Pierce]

2. Developer Tools

How about a DOM Inspector (and a Javascript Debugger)? Firefox's DOM Inspector and XMLHttpRequest Monitor are dearly missing in Opera.

XMLHttpRequest Monitor? Does anyone know what this is in reference to?

Thanks,
Eric P.

Re:XMLHttpRequest Monitor?

[chaim79]

I'm not totaly sure since I'm still learning the tech behind it but this sounds like the method that AJAX uses (XMLHTTPRequest + JavaScript + DHTML) for all it's communication.

Re:XMLHttpRequest Monitor?

[Eric Pierce]

Yep, XMLHttpRequest is the 'X' in AJAX and is the JavaScript object created for passing/receiving data to/from the server from within a webpage.

I was more curious what the 'monitor' part meant. It sounds like some functionality (an extension perhaps) available in Firefox. If so, I want to check it out. I should look up the original thread (where the questions were asked). Maybe there's some insight to be found there.

Eric P.

Re:XMLHttpRequest Monitor?

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically the 'X' stands for XML - as it might come from an iframe as opposed to using the XMLHttpRequest object... even though both return basically the same result. Just FYI

Pedantry is what slashdot is all about!

Re:XMLHttpRequest Monitor?

[HeroreV]

I was wondering the same. Even the almighty Google turns up nothing! Well, except for this very article of course. Crazy Google.

It shouldn't be too long before XmlHttpRequestMonitor.com is registered to become one of those sites with nothing but ads and paid links.

Re:XMLHttpRequest Monitor?

[smurfsurf]

It refers to http://blog.monstuff.com/archives/000252.html

Not perfect, but it is of great help.

Testing

[Simon Brooke]

One of the reason so few developers test in Opera is because Opera on the whole does standards so well. If you build your site in a standards compliant way, it will work in Opera. Which is how it should be.

A company (and a product) I admire very much. Aside, it's interesting - for such a small country - how many world-class software companies Norway has. I wish we had one half as many here in Scotland.

Re:Testing

[trats]

Unfortunately, many developers think that "works in Firefox"=="works according to standards", and thus "works in Firefox"=="works in Opera". These days, Gecko (despite being not too bad) is the probably the second-worst mainstream browser engine in terms of CSS support, so does have the occasional issue with margins or floats, which ends up causing problems for Opera when it tries to render a page made for Firefox/IE.

Re:Testing

[drinkypoo]

Amusingly, there are only three mainstream browsers, and since two of them are Mozilla, they are really only two which are IE and Mozilla-whatever. I have a hard time picturing IE being more standards-compliant than Moz. Thus, your statement is pretty obvious.

Re:Testing

[trats]

In my view, there are five currently supported mainstream browser engines: IE, Firefox/Mozilla, Opera, Konqueror and Safari - in roughly increasing order of CSS support. Yes, it has indeed been pretty obvious that Gecko has lagged a little for the past 18 months or so.

Bugger!

[ncurtain]

You never asked him if he'd marry me.

I'd settle for a babe though. (I used to be an hunk now I'm just a lump.)

Pffft

[Anonymous Coward]

I see my question of why Opera sucks so much didn't get sent to him.

Idiots

What about Online Bookmarks?

[mnmn]

One quite obvious feature I think is missing in all browsers is online Bookmarks, and history. I'd like to login into the browser anywhere and get my bookmarks and browse history in that browser immediately. Bookmarks would automatically be saved at that site (not locally), and I shouldnt have to login daily on my home machine's Opera.

Such a feature is low-overhead in CPU and bandwidth and shouldnt take much additional code. Maybe it already exists under another name, but I still have to sync my work and home bookmarks which is a pain.

Re:What about Online Bookmarks?

[RobertF]

Isn't that AOL?

Re:What about Online Bookmarks?

[jp10558]

Well, it's been suggested for a sort of "roaming profile". It's currently been implemented by a third party under the name OSync in the forums - as a script that supposedly works in Windows, Linux and MacOSX.

See: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id= 104071

Opera was my fav, but needs changes before I use

[guidryp]

I wish I didn't miss this Q&A. I used Opera for years, but after getting into Firefox at 1.0 I find it near impossible to go back. I keep installing both at new releases, but Opera invariable falls to the wayside in my usage.

The only cure I see is real encouragement of a plug-in/extension architecture. And a more consistent (with FF) rendering model.

I must have:

Flash block. I tried one of the suggested opera user scripts in the past and it failed. No flash block no Opera. It is that simple. By flashblock I mean the same functionality of the plug-in. Plays flash only when clicked. Domain white listing an optional nicety.

A bunch of little text utils that let me, launch text URLs in other tabs, launch a search in another tab, or a definition in another tab.

There are others, but these are just a sample of simple things they could do to get me back.

But there is one other problem. Rendering issues:
I surf relentlessly and I got fed up with Operas different rendering, images often hide the text I am trying to read. It became too frustrating to deal with. Can't they try to emulate the Firefox rendering? Screw IE, but FF is now enough of a standard that it could be emulated. I think the alternate browsers should try to be consistent on rendering.

Also Opera doesn't work with my bank, which is also a pain.

The above is the kind of thing that makes users give up. I used Opera for years, but firefox just works with less frustration.

What I want in a browser.

I want a browser that lets me have a quiet no animation/no noise browse experience, but allows me to click to play the functionality I want when I deem I want it, not crammed down my throat when I don't.

I want simply convenience items to launch a search/web page/dictionary of highlighted text in another tab. Opera tends to overwrite the tab I am in.

I want the rendering to be clean enough that text is not obscured by images. I realize these are probably poor pages, that have some violation of some standard. The point is that is always going to happen. Opera needs to have the same handling of bad pages as firefox, because we are always going to have bad pages and most will be tested with firefox, but not Opera.

And of course I want compatibility. Firefox offers it good enough for me, IE only stuff gets ignored by me and it is becoming fewer sites these days. A more perfected Firefox emulation would be nice.

Bottom line, firefox is giving me what I want, even if I have to use plug-ins to do it. As a long time Opera user I see the slicker engine underpinning the browser and the built in power and elegance of many features, AND I WANT TO USE IT AGAIN, but I am missing simple critical things for my browsing experience.

Please Opera devs, pay attention to these things. If you lose longtime users such as myself, what are you chances of growing market share to an apreciable amount?

Re:Opera was my fav,

[Anonymous Coward]

try this http://userjs.org/scripts/general/enhancements/hid e-objects

Slashdot accessability

[owlstead]

Additional question, when can I use "/." as the keyword, like I do in firefox. Shame you can only use alphabetical characters (and probably numbers) but not other characters. It should be a string compare, I will use "http://" if I need a page which name conflicts (never happens anyway).

I like the browsing experience in Opera. I do not like the settings and the rather few (or easy to find?) extensions to it.

indeed, adblock

[Baki]

Is the only thing stopping me from using Opera. All external solutions (I tried them all, squid + filter, webwasher, proxomitron, and several others) are all too cumbersome.

Re:indeed, adblock

[Anonymous Coward]

http://admuncher.com/

Hate the way it handles TABS!

[Snaller]

When I close a tab I expect the one to left of the tab i just closed to be active, not for the damn browser to activate some other lame random tab...

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[laptop006]

That's an option, most of us like returning to the last used tab.

Tools -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Browsing -> Cycle in page bar order

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[Yallis]

The damn browser activates the previous lame tab that you used before the one you closed.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[SilicaiMan]

When I close a tab I expect the one to left of the tab i just closed to be active, not for the damn browser to activate some other lame random tab...

Actually, Opera uses tabs the Correct Way (as opposed to FF's broken way). Browsing through tabs (via Ctrl-Tab) is based on history: the tabs are ordered according to the last visit. So, when a tab is closed, the tab that had the focus last gets the focus. Simple and convenient. This makes it easy to Ctrl-Tab between two "distant tabs", which is impossible in FF.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[Snaller]

Seen that - doesn't work.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[Snaller]

Actually, Opera uses tabs the Correct Way (as opposed to FF's broken way). Browsing through tabs (via Ctrl-Tab) is based on history: the tabs are ordered according to the last visit. So, when a tab is closed, the tab that had the focus last gets the focus. Simple and convenient.

How nice for you that its simple and convenient. It may have escaped your attention THAT I THINK ITS A FUCKING MORONING WAY TO IMPLEMENT TABBING AND INSTEAD OF FORCING THEIR SHITTY CONCEPT ON PEOPLE THEY COULD AT LEAST ALLOW THOSE WHO WANT TO TO DISABLE THEIR BRAINDEAD IMPLEMENTATION

Thank you.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[hkmwbz]

You are an idiot.

The way Opera handles tabs is not just something they came up with. It's the way real MDI works. It's the right way. It is Firefox which is forcing its shitty concept on people.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[PhilHibbs]

Maybe the Opera developers need to realise and accept that a lot of web-browser-users are idiots. If they exclude the idiot demographic, then they are always going to be a niche product.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not use a button?

http://nontroppo.org/wiki/CustomButtons#page

The "Close current page & switch to previous one" and the "Close current page & switch to next one" emulate firefox's behaviour.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[RobbieGee]

Tools -> Preferences... -> Advanced (Browsing) -> "Cycle in page bar order".

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[Snaller]

You are an idiot.

Wow, you really are a pathetic little child aren't you. And unfortunate product of generations of inbreeding.

The way Opera handles tabs is not just something they came up with. It's the way real MDI works. It's the right way.

No little child, it its their way. And since its a way that slows down my browsing and makes it more annoying to browse its not a way I wish to embrace, or a product I wish to use - unless they actual also grow up and realize they should offer people a choice. Now go do your homework.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[Snaller]

Do you think I'm incapable of looking in the preferences? Did you overlook someone already suggested that? IT DOES'NT WORK. Or perhaps it does do something, not just what I said I would like several messages back: When I close a tab, I want the tab to the left of it to become the active one.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[hkmwbz]

You should get a clue instead of ranting and raving like the mad Firefox fanboiiii that you are. Try MDI some time, and you might understand a little more than you do today (which is close to nothing).

Opera's tab ordering is done the way it has always been done in MDI applications. Before making a complete fool of yourself again, try some other MDI app, and you'll realize the error of your pathetic, whiny ways.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[drinkypoo]

One thing you are missing is that most people fucking hate MDI and wish it had never been created. There must surely be a better way to manage groups of windows. Unfortunately, no one seems to have bothered to implement one in a mainstream product yet. Further, MDI is nothing to base anything on. Let's try and stop emulating Windows(tm) someday.

Firefox tabs make sense. They work, and they work well. Furthermore, it absolutely makes sense when the next tab is activated instead of the last one you are on, when tabs are your metaphor. If you have a bunch of entries in a roladex, and you pull one out, does one way the hell back in the stack become visible? No. The next card does.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[Snaller]

Listen you pathetic little sniveling inbred moron - with what fucking right do you presume to dictate how i must work!?!?! I don't use that damn Firefox, I never mentioned Firefox. Its just you little retarded basement dwelling idiots who must make all into wars about fucking software! I said its annoying for me that when I close a tab Opera doesn't move back to the previous tab, but may jump 5 tabs to the left because a bunch of idiots say "Thats the way its supposed to be!"

And exactly what kind of 1 digit low IQ do you have when you write "Before making a complete fool of yourself again, try some other MDI app, and you'll realize the error of your pathetic, whiny ways."

Its fucking annoying! I don't give a shit if there are fifty billion programs which have done this for 50 years - I makes it more difficult for ME to move around, which is why *I* don't like it. You are a complete retard if you think everybody must love it your way. Its totally stupid and illogical to me, and since I originally said I don't want can use it because its such a lame behavior then that is the subject. Now what they should have done is take into consideration that the end user might like a different way and they could have implemented that, and if you kids had an IQ larger than a dead rat you could accept that others might like it differently that what you like, instead I get a slew of rude and arrogant spam from all you morons because you can't accept that some people prefer a method different from yours! Its idiots like you that invade other countries and wipe out the population because they don't understand "the right way".

Now piss of an annoy someone else.

Re:Hate the way it handles TABS!

[hkmwbz]

You are making a fool of yourself as usual. Here's what you called Opera's implementation:

"THEIR SHITTY CONCEPT"

Except it isn't their concept at all. Opera simply sticks to the MDI standard.

"when I close a tab Opera doesn't move back to the previous tab, but may jump 5 tabs to the left because a bunch of idiots say "Thats the way its supposed to be!""

It moves to the previously active tab because that's the way MDI works. I've already explained this to you, but apparently you are too much of a moron to understand this.

"You are a complete retard if you think everybody must love it your way."

I didn't say that you had to love it. I said that you should stop making a fool of yourself by claiming that this is something Opera did just like that without taking older implementations into consideration.

"Its totally stupid and illogical to me"

Going to the previously active tab is actually completely logical and predictable (predictable is good).

Re:Opera was my fav, but needs changes before I us

[Anonymous Coward]

I want simply convenience items to launch a search/web page/dictionary of highlighted text in another tab. Opera tends to overwrite the tab I am in.

In almost all cases in opera holding down SHIFT while clicking something will cause it to open in a new page, and holding CTRL+SHIFT will cause it to open in a new background page.
This works within the context menu brought up by right clicking highlighted text.

Re:Opera was my fav, but needs changes before I us

[jp10558]

Interestingly enough I have these right now in Opera 8.51:

Flash block. I tried one of the suggested opera user scripts in the past and it failed. No flash block no Opera. It is that simple. By flashblock I mean the same functionality of the plug-in. Plays flash only when clicked. Domain white listing an optional nicety.

I use proxomitron, I maintain an opera modded set at www.streamload.com/jp10558/public . Flashblock, domain whitelist, click to play or save. Also works for java applets. (Oh, I have to get a third party program to do this? Same as extensions for me, and one does soooo much. Too hard? Many people will help/maintain the whole shebang for you, all you have to do is extract a zip file, and maybe setup a shortcut)

A bunch of little text utils that let me, launch text URLs in other tabs, launch a search in another tab, or a definition in another tab. Double click a text URL - select load this url.

Double click the URL - shift or ctrl shift click the go to url. Or, edit the menu ini to add other options in the menu. Same for search and definitons, as well as translations.

Not to mention, Opera ASA FINALLY listened to people who hated editing ini files (OSS people, no way- isn't that how Linux works??) and copied Opera:Config from FF about:config to make many more things editible inside Opera - this will be in v9.

Open source Opera should be named...

[antikristian]

Phantom!! Get it? Such a great pun would guarantee more widespread use:)

tab size

[pilot1]

the main thing that has kept me with firefox (even though it seems to crash every 3-5 days) is the fact that the tabs in Opera don't resize. With firefox, I can open 25+ tabs with absolutely no problem. With Opera, I can only open about 5 tabs before it makes a new row, which I find extremely annoying. Anyone know of a way to make the tabs resize to a smaller size instead of creating a new row?

Re:tab size

[bhtooefr]

Interesting - resizing tabs is the default behavior, so that must have gotten changed. Right click on the tab bar, click Customize. Set Wrapping to No wrapping.

Re:tab size

[dodd15]

right click in the tabs area > customize > wrapping > no wrapping

Re:tab size

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell Opera to use no line breaks in the setup, and the tabs will resize to fit on one line.

Re:tab size

[Anonymous Coward]

Right click your tab bar, customize, select "No Wrapping".

Re:Opera was my fav,

[Anonymous Coward]

Great! This works wonders. It's just what I needed.

Moderators, mod parent up!

Re:Opera was my fav, but needs changes before I us

[guidryp]

"I use proxomitron, I maintain an opera modded set at www.streamload.com/jp10558/public."

As a long time Opera user, proxomitron was in my arsenal for better user agent spoofing, but eventually I found this solution too cumbersome. I don't plan to revisit. We need simpler solutions to expand the userbase. Proxo is much more work than extensions.

"Double click the URL - shift or ctrl shift click the go to url. "

I am talking about non link text URLs, when you just highlight a bit of text that is a link, a term you want to search in a search engine, dictionary. This is all simple and works as I want it to in FF. But I just tried holding shift with the context does seem to get it in a new tab, but again a little more cumbersome.

I'll have a look again when 9 comes out.

Swimming incident

[neofreko]

There is one time I start 'hating' Opera. Any of you remember the Opera swimming incident? That was so cheap. It's like the incident was made in purpose so that the swimming never gonna be happening. I don't buy such reason!

Re:Opera was my fav, but needs changes before I us

[jp10558]

As a long time Opera user, proxomitron was in my arsenal for better user agent spoofing, but eventually I found this solution too cumbersome. I don't plan to revisit. We need simpler solutions to expand the userbase. Proxo is much more work than extensions.
Proxomitron *can be* more complex/more work than extensions. However, in my experiance, if you use a filterset someone else maintains, it becomes
1) install program/filterset + configure browsers
2) occasionally update filterset
3) know you can rightclick to turn it off if it breaks something.

That's it. I used proxomitron like that for about 3 years before I decided I wanted to learn more.

Is that particularly more difficult than extensions? I mean, I haven't ever used them, but my understanding of them is basically

1) Install extension. Configure as desired.
2) Occasionally update extension or hack if my update to firefox broke it (usually just because of the extension not being auto good for the latest version # increment, not actually a code issue)
3) Know you can uninstall extension if it breaks stuff.

Is there something I'm missing or overstating with extensions? Is it impossible to use proxomitron as indicated? I mean, you weren't looking for adblocking, just flash block, and that really doesn't require you to mess with the filters themselves at all. In terms of whitelisting sites, is adding a url to a text file available from the right click menu of a tray icon much different from going into prefs and adding it there?

Re:Opera was my fav, but needs changes before I us

[Anonymous Coward]

I am talking about non link text URLs, when you just highlight a bit of text that is a link, a term you want to search in a search engine, dictionary. This is all simple and works as I want it to in FF.

Well, I can do all that with my Opera 8.51, but I'm not a complete retard.

Re:-1, Troll

[jonadab]

> a smaller chance of long-term survival?

Apparently you do not know your history. I'm not an Opera user myself (except for occasional testing purposes), but its long-term servival is pretty much settled. Of the dozen or so browsers with anything approaching significant market share, Opera is the second-oldest, after Netscape. In that time, Opera has never lost any significant percentage of what market share it has. Granted, it has also never had a very large market share, compared to the top two players. OTOH, which other two browsers are the top two players, and in what order, has changed three or four times while Opera has stayed consistently in the top four. Opera's long-term survival, assuming we define "long-term" in a way that makes sense in the context of the web browser market, isn't really in question.

Whether it will ever climb into the top two is another matter.

MOD UP

[urbanRealist]

That was my exact impression of the interview.

bugtracking

[richlv]

11) Bug tracking, developer tools and HTML/CSS/JS
by smurfsurf (892933)

1. Opera Bug Tracking System My experience with Opera's bug tracking system are rather frustrating. I can not check if some bug is already known (describing a bug and creating a test case is time consuming). Also, I reported some things and never ever got any feedback besides an automatic email. I do not know if Opera considers it a bug, if it is not a bug but an error on my side, if someone works on it, if it was fixed, simply nothing comes back. The Opera BTS is a black hole, and since some time now, I do not feel like making the effort to report bugs.

Do you plan to open up the BTS or at least allow the submitter to view the ticket? Or enhance the feedback?

oooh. my question. thanks, smurfsurf, for asking :)

currently opera answer for duplicate bugs has been "go ask on forums". wtf ? i have found a problem (or so i think), so i go to bugzilla, do a quick search. if i do not find any issue dealing with this, i file a new one and get timely updates on this, other people can confirm my findings etc.

having an open bugzilla for opera would be HUGE.
of course, there still will be internal issues/issues not available for everybody (see sun with openoffice or novell with opensuse), but let us help you ;)

he mentioned that a operists (or something...) read slashdot - so know this, your users want to help you, but currently you are not accepting all the help ;)

Re:bugtracking

[KjetilK]

currently opera answer for duplicate bugs has been "go ask on forums". wtf ?

The thing is with Bugzilla, duplicate bugs is considered and annoyance, at the very least, even a huge time-sink by others. What we're working to do is make it an asset instead, it should give us an idea what the major annoyances are, and also with different reports, we'll more easily see the nuances that will help reproduce the problem. So, we're taking a different approach to this, but I think you'll like the result, when we get there! :-)

Re:bugtracking

[richlv]

The thing is with Bugzilla, duplicate bugs is considered and annoyance, at the very least, even a huge time-sink by others.

of course they are. but if you have found a problem and want to file it quickly - with open bugzilla you can check immediately for the problem. if you have to wait for the answer on the forums (which won't be authoritative), it is easier to either file it away or not to file at all.

additionally, open bugzilla helps in dupe hunting - usually if i search for some annoyance and find a dupe i add a comment to one of issues indicating the other, so qa can immediately see that it is a dupe.

well, in opensource projects additionally volunteer qa helps a lot, this probably would be alot harder to pull by opera.

I think you'll like the result, when we get there

now you got me curious =)
any timeframe, maybe ? ;)

Aylar = Not Norwegian!

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares about some Iranian pornstar that moved to Norway?

Do "people" really want it Open Sourced?

[WoTG]

Why is "will you Open Source?" one of the top ten questions? Opera has been around for quite a few years, so I assume that they're able to generate a few bucks to pay the bills as a closed source shop. Meanwhile, we already have an excellent open source browser (more like 2-10 depending on exactly what counts as a unique browser). With yet-another-open-source browser, what would be accomplished besides splitting the efforst of OSS-web-browser developers?