"That's only proof if you actually know there's been a massacre there. Otherwise it can mean anything, including a forest fire."
Why a troll such as you got modded "interesting" befuddles me, but I'll bite.
No, it couldn't have been "anything." "Anything" includes meteorite strikes, Acts of Gawd, and other such unlikelihoods.
Systematic burning of _disconnected_ villages over hundreds of miles over long stretches of time is not a "forest fire" especially when there is no forest.
"E.g., take the Great Fire Of London"
No, you take it. Part of the reason that the Great Fire spread so quickly was the density of flammable wooden structures. What we actually see in the satellite photographs is not dense urban construction.
I don't know what you're trying to prove in your message, but being so disconnected from reality is never a good thing. Maybe you can't wrap your brain around the fact that the long tradition of killing your fellow man has gone on for millennia and isn't all that uncommon. I don't know. I do find your twisted logic, if you can call it that, disturbing.
"This is the same "targeting" rhetoric from the early 1990s all over again. Pretending that whether missiles are 'targeted' at some city somewhere, really changes the strategic position at all."
...I got to see, and hold, a World Series Championship ring last week for about a minute. It was _really_ nice.
I do not have a slingbox, tivo, or mythbox. However, don't give two hoots about a bunch of millionaires who have made ticket prices insane enough that I could never _ever_ go see a BoSox game. And now they got their panties in a twist about people watching the games where they're not 'supposed' to?
See me not care about MLB. *bmo sits back and folds arms*
See?
I swore off baseball during the 1994 strike (The ball going between Bill Buckner's legs wasn't enough.) but got back into it a few years later when Sox were finally no longer ruled by the Yawkeys. Even with the Sox 14 games up on the Yankees, this is enough for me to not care again. This money shit just pisses me right off.
Bud Selig, you should give thanks to the Basebawl Gawds that you get to be in charge of a _kid's game_ and make money doing so. You are not _entitled_ to it. You are, however, entitled to shut the hell up.
Have a big cup of STFU and swallow your inferiority complex. Then, take a hammer to your Archos, because it makes you rude, long winded, and an asshole.
"i will pit my landline against your cell phone bill anyday. mobile phone calls are NOT cheaper, unless your making no calls."
Rhode Island, USA is only 47 miles the long way. Yet it's long-distance for me to call my parents 18 miles away, as the crow flies, on a land-line. "What?" I hear you say? You got it. 2 years ago I looked into possibly getting a land-line through my broadband provider (cox) to _maybe_ save with a bundle, but no, the amount I'd pay for land-line service more than exceeds my monthly cell plan, plus I'd lose the convenience of taking my phone with me.
No sale.
It's the same way with the other land line providers here (VZN, MCI, SBC). You can look across the bay from North Kingstown to Newport RI yet be charged long distance if you phoned it. Back in the BBS days, the placement of a WWIV node in RI was always a strategic decision. Thankfully we had people in various areas that could be used as bridges to other exchanges. And even if you had to call LD, it was cheaper to call a node out in Nevada than use instate LD.
They sell "One State One Rate" plans, but you could just tack that money on to a cell plan.
You'd think things would change over 20 years. Nope, not a chance.
I don't have a land line. Why? The cell phone is _cheaper_. If you're going to be pragmatic, ditch the land line.
It's not about new and hip. It's about being fed up with how the old-fashioned phone company rips you off and charges you out the a$$ for features that simply come included with cell plans.
Plus you can take the thing with you. Nobody could ever get in touch with me when I had a land line. Now, they can, plus I get to screen my calls with caller ID and voicemail for free. Woot.
You can take my barebones nokia from my cold dead fingers.
As for the iPod, it simply works with Linux and has a non-annoying interface. Run Amarok or GTKpod and you're good to go. At least I _know_ it works. It's not about trendy, though a decent design that doesn't look like ass helps.
Cranky Old Man Rant about electronics design and "WTF are they thinking?":
Minimalist design never gets the chance to look like ass. Steve Jobs knows this. Take a brick. Paint it white. You have a White iBrick. Throw a bunch of buttons, weird shapes on it, and you have an Ugly White iBrick. Same goes for laptops. Apple laptops are all striaght clean lines, single color. Tasteful. Doesn't even get the chance to look like ass. Look at a Dell or (horrors) DellAlienware notebook. Looks like ass.
A KitchenAid mixer looks like...a Mixer. It doesn't look like anything else or try to. Yet it's a classic design with clean streamlined lines. If I erased the logo from it, you'd identify it as a KitchenAid anyway.
Sit there and look like a computer, not a ricer box.
OMFG, it looks like a Partidge Family lunch box (which is trendy now!) Aaaand it's slightly creepy at the same time! Yes! You too can raise eyebrows at your next LAN party!
"It must be utterly awful here in the false Free Market "
Hey, I've got a question for you...mr Anonymous.
Define Free Market.
Apply that definition to the US. Does the US match the definition? No? Oh!
Goddamn Randroids, living in their own fantasy lands.
"when people keep pouring into this country."
Funny how capital has been fleeing the US for other places, while the Dollar sinks and sinks. It's almost EXACTLY two dollars to buy a British Pound. The Canadian Dollar will soon be more expensive than the US dollar. Woo. There goes your US (and my, btw) bank account. "I'm short the Dollar" - Bill Gates.
"free market for labor as well as capital. People will then chose what is best for them,"
This is Pure Fantasy (TM).
The Republicans, the supposed Free Marketeers, want to "seal the borders"
People are not as mobile as capital, so they get fucked by the so-called Free Market, which ain't.
This totally ignores things like intangibles like family ties, etc. "Honey, I'm leaving for China. I'll see you in 10 years." Funny, this is exactly what some many illegal immigrants do in this country (the US). They come here, intend to work for only a few years, but grow roots, instead.
Your fantasy of a Free Market is just as dumb and unworkable as Communism.
Plus, I'll heap some more numbers upon you, just out of spite.
Apple is going to sell 9.5 million iPods ending this quarter. 9.5 _million_ iPods in _one quarter_ , while it took _two_ quarters to sell 1 million Zunes.
9.5 million versus 500 thousand/quarter. Please also note that I'm splitting the Zune sales evenly between two quarters, ignoring the initial early-adopter bump. You're not going to see many Zunes, period.
"According to the firms latest report, global PMP/MP3 player unit shipments will rise to 268.6 million units in 2011, expanding at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 13 percent from 128.7 million units in 2005. In 2007, player shipments are expected to rise to 216.9 million units, up 21.8 percent from 178.1 million in 2006, iSuppli said."
So the market is going to grow by nearly 39 million units _this year alone_ and the Zune will be 2 million of that, roughly. That's not enough to be visible.
"Lucas has written good stuff in his life; look at THX-1138."
Yes, but that was before the Star Wars _franchise_. It's no longer about the story. It's about the money, and how many people will grit their teeth while paying for movie tickets because all of us 40 year olds want our childhood back. But that's because we're all suckers and figure "well he can't rape our childhoods THAT much, can he?"
Yes. Yes he can. Meesa givesa upsa after Episode Onesa...
As to how far he can sink, do you remember the Christmas Special? Did you gouge your eyes out?
"Darwin's theories are... theories. Creationism is another theory."
No, you're confusing the real definition of "theory" with "hypotheis" which far too many people, who aren't familiar with the _vast_ differences between the two, use interchangeably.
IOW, you're spouting a half-truth.
What's a half-truth? A whole lie.
And besides, Creationism isn't falsifiable, so it doesn't even pass the laugh test by calling it a hypothesis.
I'll agree to teaching Creationism if we also teach ALL THE OTHER creation stories on par with it - Buddhist, Shinto, Hindu, all of them. Fair play and all that. Deal?
"People who disagree with conventional wisdom may have some unique insight. "
One should not keep a mind so open, however, that the brains fall out.
"How much literature on the subject of Intelligent Design have you read?"
Enough to take a Tums.
ID is not a theory. It is a wild-eyed perversion of the creation _story_ in the Bible. It invents, out of whole cloth, stuff that _isn't_ in the Bible _or_ in science, tries to fit all of it to the weird ID hypotheses with sledgehammers and crowbars, and makes one pick and choose _anyway_ from the Bible if any of it is to believed. If Ham paid attention to what he's actually doing and believes in that the Bible is the word of God, he should be concerned for his eternal soul. If the Bible is the be-all and end-all of the Origin of Everything, where is their FAITH which ID pushers talk so much about? Isn't the story in the Bible good enough for people like Ham? Apparently not. He accuses real scientists of undermining religion, yet he's doing a bang-up job on his own. ID is full of false assumptions, data skewing, unprovable statements, and just outright lies. It's about time that ID nutjobs stop trying to pervert what should be faith into some lurching Frankensteinian monster by trying to bolt a fucked-up version of what they call "science" to it.
1 Thes. v. 21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." By corollary, toss that which is bogus under the bus. ID is bogus science _and_ religion.
"Those who invalidate reason ought seriously to consider whether they argue against reason with or without reason; if with reason, then they establish the principle they are laboring to dethrone: but if they argue without reason (which, in order to be consistent with themselves they must do), they are out of reach of rational conviction, nor do they deserve a rational argument."
"Microsoft would hardly get involved with Google over Linux (if anything) anyway."
Why not? You said that Microsoft would sue end users were it not for this agreement. Well, There You Go, the World's Biggest Linux User.
"We can argue all day on how different people perceive it, or what the "spirit" of some agreement is etc etc, and yet the only things that really stand are the facts"
I'm going to slow down the text so it will be clear to you:
Fuck the FAQ. It doesn't answer the questions I posed. Andreas Jaeger's answer really is a non-answer.
Why did Sun have to give Microsoft money to distribute Gnome as per Miguel's assertion?
Why did Novell enter a similar agreement if Linux doesn't infringe on any valid patents? If there was no threat, why acknowledge Microsoft's assertions about patents?
My gawd. We've had a lawsuit going on for 4 years with one company claiming that Linux infringes on its precious IP and it's all been a lot of hot air. Why encourage assholes like that? Why even give them the time of day? Why sign agreements with them? Microsoft is pulling the exact same chump moves that SCO did and you and others have fallen for them hook line and sinker.
Fuck Miguel. Fuck Microsoft. Fuck John Dragoon. Fuck everyone that says that this is a good deal.
"This is why Microsoft customers asked for the protection from Novell as well, of not being sued."
Oh gawd, this is an ISSUE? Are you SERIOUS? This does not even pass the laugh test!
"When you've got billions of dollars, you cannot avoid so many risks, you become a big target. "
And Google is the biggest Linux user out there. Microsoft has not sued Google for the $BIGPAYOFF. Neither does anyone believe that Microsoft will even attempt it.
"We do not think that Novell's Linux distributions violate valid patents"
Then do what Redhat has done. Novell could have indemnified its users just like Redhat. Doing so does not need the cooperation of Microsoft.
Signing the agreement with Microsoft has given PERCEIVED validation to Microsoft's claims. Signing the agreement "admits" that Linux has "problems" be they real or not. What I don't get is why Novell didn't see this coming and that you refuse to admit the reality of Microsoft's most recent FUD campaign being _started_ by this.
In the war of words that Microsoft is waging, perception is everything, and Novell handed the PR bullet to Microsoft on a silver platter.
"Not when Microsoft have explicitly stated that it wasn't part of the original deal (which they have)"
But that was _one_ statement on _one_ day while they've been threatening world+dog that those who use Linux are infringing on Microsoft IP and "y'all better sign agreements with us like Novell if ya know what's good for ya"
It doesn't matter what Microsoft said in an obscure press release that didn't get _any_ reprinting in any of the rags. What counts is what they've been shouting from the rooftops.
"Doesn't sound like they're doing bad, right?"
Yeah, it's been so freakin' good that the GPL3 is going to stop stupid shenanigans like that. Thank God.
You know, this wouldn't be an issue if Novell was straight up about this in the first place, but since it's all so fucking secret, trying to explain it to people so they might understand is an exercize in futility.
JUST WHY DO NOVELL CUSTOMERS NEED PROTECTING FROM "MICROSOFT IP" BY THIS COVENANT NOT TO SUE?
Eh?
Nobody has explained that. John Dragoon has danced around it and totally ignored the issue. Miguel DeIcaza in his blog said that Sun "signed a similar agreement so they could distribute Gnome." I don't know about you, but that statement _me_ say "what the fuck?"
JUST WHAT THE HELL DID SUN BUY AND WHY DID THEY HAVE TO PAY MICROSOFT? Answer me that and the above question, in a straightforward manner, and I just might come over to your side of the argument, but nobody from either Novell, Sun, or Microsoft has been able to be forthcoming with anything that doesn't sound like tapdancing around the truth.
But no, we don't have any truth from any of the principals in this whole brouhaha. All we have is a bunch of lying weasels trying to paint the best picture for themselves and ass covers the size of the Moon.
"They picked SuSE Enterprise. To some, partnership with recognised companies is a whole lot more important than any notion of ideals or ethics."
But Novell has already been a recognized company. I guess you missed the entire history of Novell and the urban legends of Novell servers being walled up like so many Fortunados, still running, but encased by wallboard (Alas, I have not run into any with bottles of Amontillado).
Novell is already famous. They didn't need Microsoft's blessing.
"Novell couldn't have made it clearer that they didn't agree to any nonsense about Linux infringing on MS's patents,"
Bullshit. Microsoft has the bigger bullhorn and the PR budget that just dwarfs Novell's entire market cap.
Just by merely signing the agreement, which is secret, allows Microsoft to say whatever the hell it wants, and Novell can do *fuck-all* about it. I have _zero_ sympathy for Novell, because they should have known better. And all of John Dragoon's (VP of PR) statements that this was good for Novell and its users are just laughable given Microsoft's actions in the intervening time since the signing.
If Novell was really looking out for its own interests, it should have given Microsoft two fingers up.
Slashdot Mirror
Can the model predict the next time the Leafs win the Stanley Cup?
--
BMO
"That's only proof if you actually know there's been a massacre there. Otherwise it can mean anything, including a forest fire."
Why a troll such as you got modded "interesting" befuddles me, but I'll bite.
No, it couldn't have been "anything." "Anything" includes meteorite strikes, Acts of Gawd, and other such unlikelihoods.
Systematic burning of _disconnected_ villages over hundreds of miles over long stretches of time is not a "forest fire" especially when there is no forest.
"E.g., take the Great Fire Of London"
No, you take it. Part of the reason that the Great Fire spread so quickly was the density of flammable wooden structures. What we actually see in the satellite photographs is not dense urban construction.
I don't know what you're trying to prove in your message, but being so disconnected from reality is never a good thing. Maybe you can't wrap your brain around the fact that the long tradition of killing your fellow man has gone on for millennia and isn't all that uncommon. I don't know. I do find your twisted logic, if you can call it that, disturbing.
--
BMO
"This is the same "targeting" rhetoric from the early 1990s all over again. Pretending that whether missiles are 'targeted' at some city somewhere, really changes the strategic position at all."
Cue to Kids in the Hall
"I'm crushing your head! I'm crushing your head!"
Vladimir Putin = Mr. Tyzik?
--
BMO
...I got to see, and hold, a World Series Championship ring last week for about a minute. It was _really_ nice.
I do not have a slingbox, tivo, or mythbox. However, don't give two hoots about a bunch of millionaires who have made ticket prices insane enough that I could never _ever_ go see a BoSox game. And now they got their panties in a twist about people watching the games where they're not 'supposed' to?
See me not care about MLB. *bmo sits back and folds arms*
See?
I swore off baseball during the 1994 strike (The ball going between Bill Buckner's legs wasn't enough.) but got back into it a few years later when Sox were finally no longer ruled by the Yawkeys. Even with the Sox 14 games up on the Yankees, this is enough for me to not care again. This money shit just pisses me right off.
Bud Selig, you should give thanks to the Basebawl Gawds that you get to be in charge of a _kid's game_ and make money doing so. You are not _entitled_ to it. You are, however, entitled to shut the hell up.
--
BMO
Submitters really should think of good headlines. A better headline for this story would have been "LiveJournal Bloggers Are Revolting"
or, to be really attention grabbing:
"Incest Bloggers in Revolting Ferment"
--
BMO
"I grew up in NK with an EG phone number."
"huge phone bills when our BBS changed numbers"
If I think you are who you might be...
"Don't ever get dragged behind a dirt bike on a PowerWheels"
Hi.
--
BMO
I had written something "in defense of the ipod"
But you know what?
Have a big cup of STFU and swallow your inferiority complex. Then, take a hammer to your Archos, because it makes you rude, long winded, and an asshole.
--
BMO
"i will pit my landline against your cell phone bill anyday. mobile phone calls are NOT cheaper, unless your making no calls."
Rhode Island, USA is only 47 miles the long way. Yet it's long-distance for me to call my parents 18 miles away, as the crow flies, on a land-line. "What?" I hear you say? You got it. 2 years ago I looked into possibly getting a land-line through my broadband provider (cox) to _maybe_ save with a bundle, but no, the amount I'd pay for land-line service more than exceeds my monthly cell plan, plus I'd lose the convenience of taking my phone with me.
No sale.
It's the same way with the other land line providers here (VZN, MCI, SBC). You can look across the bay from North Kingstown to Newport RI yet be charged long distance if you phoned it. Back in the BBS days, the placement of a WWIV node in RI was always a strategic decision. Thankfully we had people in various areas that could be used as bridges to other exchanges. And even if you had to call LD, it was cheaper to call a node out in Nevada than use instate LD.
They sell "One State One Rate" plans, but you could just tack that money on to a cell plan.
You'd think things would change over 20 years. Nope, not a chance.
--
BMO
"Shit I don't even have a cell phone."
1 58.jpg
i nescc012.jpg
a se.jpg
See, now this I don't understand.
I don't have a land line. Why? The cell phone is _cheaper_. If you're going to be pragmatic, ditch the land line.
It's not about new and hip. It's about being fed up with how the old-fashioned phone company rips you off and charges you out the a$$ for features that simply come included with cell plans.
Plus you can take the thing with you. Nobody could ever get in touch with me when I had a land line. Now, they can, plus I get to screen my calls with caller ID and voicemail for free. Woot.
You can take my barebones nokia from my cold dead fingers.
As for the iPod, it simply works with Linux and has a non-annoying interface. Run Amarok or GTKpod and you're good to go. At least I _know_ it
works. It's not about trendy, though a decent design that doesn't look like ass helps.
Cranky Old Man Rant about electronics design and "WTF are they thinking?":
Minimalist design never gets the chance to look like ass. Steve Jobs knows this. Take a brick. Paint it white. You have a White iBrick. Throw a bunch of buttons, weird shapes on it, and you have an Ugly White iBrick. Same goes for laptops. Apple laptops are all striaght clean lines, single color. Tasteful. Doesn't even get the chance to look like ass. Look at a Dell or (horrors) DellAlienware notebook. Looks like ass.
A KitchenAid mixer looks like...a Mixer. It doesn't look like anything else or try to. Yet it's a classic design with clean streamlined lines. If I erased the logo from it, you'd identify it as a KitchenAid anyway.
Sit there and look like a computer, not a ricer box.
Computer fashion victims:
http://img.alibaba.com/img/product/11/32/11/11321
It looks like the grille of a Pontiac Aztec.
http://images.planetamd64.com/phatsob/dainescc/da
I know it's a mod, but that will give a 3 yr old nightmares... DAAADDEEEE!!! IT'S COMING TO TAKE MY BRAIIIN!!
http://www.freecomputer.ca/cases2.gif
Is that a jet intake? Yes, not only do I want it to sound loud, but I want it to _look_ loud and what's louder than a jet engine?
Another mod, but damn....
http://otakuscience.sharper.nl/images/game_pc%20c
OMFG, it looks like a Partidge Family lunch box (which is trendy now!) Aaaand it's slightly creepy at the same time! Yes! You too can raise eyebrows at your next LAN party!
Get off my lawn, you kids.
--
BMO
"It must be utterly awful here in the false Free Market "
Hey, I've got a question for you...mr Anonymous.
Define Free Market.
Apply that definition to the US. Does the US match the definition? No? Oh!
Goddamn Randroids, living in their own fantasy lands.
"when people keep pouring into this country."
Funny how capital has been fleeing the US for other places, while the Dollar sinks and sinks. It's almost EXACTLY two dollars to buy a British Pound. The Canadian Dollar will soon be more expensive than the US dollar. Woo. There goes your US (and my, btw) bank account. "I'm short the Dollar" - Bill Gates.
http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html
Fuck you.
--
BMO
"free market for labor as well as capital. People will then chose what is best for them,"
This is Pure Fantasy (TM).
The Republicans, the supposed Free Marketeers, want to "seal the borders"
People are not as mobile as capital, so they get fucked by the so-called Free Market, which ain't.
This totally ignores things like intangibles like family ties, etc. "Honey, I'm leaving for China. I'll see you in 10 years." Funny, this is exactly what some many illegal immigrants do in this country (the US). They come here, intend to work for only a few years, but grow roots, instead.
Your fantasy of a Free Market is just as dumb and unworkable as Communism.
--
BMO
"this is Slashdot and you're bashing Microsoft."
l eid=CA6428719
No, he's quite correct.
Plus, I'll heap some more numbers upon you, just out of spite.
Apple is going to sell 9.5 million iPods ending this quarter. 9.5 _million_ iPods in _one quarter_ , while it took _two_ quarters to sell 1 million Zunes.
9.5 million versus 500 thousand/quarter. Please also note that I'm splitting the Zune sales evenly between two quarters, ignoring the initial early-adopter bump. You're not going to see many Zunes, period.
http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=article&artic
"According to the firms latest report, global PMP/MP3 player unit shipments will rise to 268.6 million units in 2011, expanding at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 13 percent from 128.7 million units in 2005. In 2007, player shipments are expected to rise to 216.9 million units, up 21.8 percent from 178.1 million in 2006, iSuppli said."
So the market is going to grow by nearly 39 million units _this year alone_ and the Zune will be 2 million of that, roughly. That's not enough to be visible.
--
BMO
"Lucas has written good stuff in his life; look at THX-1138."
Yes, but that was before the Star Wars _franchise_. It's no longer about the story. It's about the money, and how many people will grit their teeth while paying for movie tickets because all of us 40 year olds want our childhood back. But that's because we're all suckers and figure "well he can't rape our childhoods THAT much, can he?"
Yes. Yes he can. Meesa givesa upsa after Episode Onesa...
As to how far he can sink, do you remember the Christmas Special? Did you gouge your eyes out?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asnVcbWQ2cg
Bea...Arthur... BEA FREAKIN ARTHUR!
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
BMO
"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
"I'll rip their head of.[sic]"
Just another figure of speech?
--
BMO
"Darwin's theories are... theories. Creationism is another theory."
No, you're confusing the real definition of "theory" with "hypotheis" which far too many people, who aren't familiar with the _vast_ differences between the two, use interchangeably.
IOW, you're spouting a half-truth.
What's a half-truth? A whole lie.
And besides, Creationism isn't falsifiable, so it doesn't even pass the laugh test by calling it a hypothesis.
I'll agree to teaching Creationism if we also teach ALL THE OTHER creation stories on par with it - Buddhist, Shinto, Hindu, all of them. Fair play and all that. Deal?
--
BMO
"People who disagree with conventional wisdom may have some unique insight. "
One should not keep a mind so open, however, that the brains fall out.
"How much literature on the subject of Intelligent Design have you read?"
Enough to take a Tums.
ID is not a theory. It is a wild-eyed perversion of the creation _story_ in the Bible. It invents, out of whole cloth, stuff that _isn't_ in the Bible _or_ in science, tries to fit all of it to the weird ID hypotheses with sledgehammers and crowbars, and makes one pick and choose _anyway_ from the Bible if any of it is to believed. If Ham paid attention to what he's actually doing and believes in that the Bible is the word of God, he should be concerned for his eternal soul. If the Bible is the be-all and end-all of the Origin of Everything, where is their FAITH which ID pushers talk so much about? Isn't the story in the Bible good enough for people like Ham? Apparently not. He accuses real scientists of undermining religion, yet he's doing a bang-up job on his own. ID is full of false assumptions, data skewing, unprovable statements, and just outright lies. It's about time that ID nutjobs stop trying to pervert what should be faith into some lurching Frankensteinian monster by trying to bolt a fucked-up version of what they call "science" to it.
1 Thes. v. 21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." By corollary, toss that which is bogus under the bus. ID is bogus science _and_ religion.
--
BMO
"Those who invalidate reason ought seriously to consider whether they argue against reason with or without reason; if with reason, then they establish the principle they are laboring to dethrone: but if they argue without reason (which, in order to be consistent with themselves they must do), they are out of reach of rational conviction, nor do they deserve a rational argument."
Ethan Allen
--
BMO
"Microsoft would hardly get involved with Google over Linux (if anything) anyway."
Why not? You said that Microsoft would sue end users were it not for this agreement. Well, There You Go, the World's Biggest Linux User.
"We can argue all day on how different people perceive it, or what the "spirit" of some agreement is etc etc, and yet the only things that really stand are the facts"
I'm going to slow down the text so it will be clear to you:
T-H-E F-A-C-T-S D-O N-O-T M-A-T-T-E-R. I-N A W-A-R O-F W-O-R-D-S, M-I-C-R-O-S-O-F-T D-O-E-S N-O-T I-N-T-E-N-D T-O P-L-A-Y F-A-I-R.
Are you clear on that now?
--
BMO
"Also, you clearly haven't read the FAQ"
Fuck the FAQ. It doesn't answer the questions I posed. Andreas Jaeger's answer really is a non-answer.
Why did Sun have to give Microsoft money to distribute Gnome as per Miguel's assertion?
Why did Novell enter a similar agreement if Linux doesn't infringe on any valid patents? If there was no threat, why acknowledge Microsoft's assertions about patents?
My gawd. We've had a lawsuit going on for 4 years with one company claiming that Linux infringes on its precious IP and it's all been a lot of hot air. Why encourage assholes like that? Why even give them the time of day? Why sign agreements with them? Microsoft is pulling the exact same chump moves that SCO did and you and others have fallen for them hook line and sinker.
Fuck Miguel. Fuck Microsoft. Fuck John Dragoon. Fuck everyone that says that this is a good deal.
--
BMO
"This is why Microsoft customers asked for the protection from Novell as well, of not being sued."
Oh gawd, this is an ISSUE? Are you SERIOUS? This does not even pass the laugh test!
"When you've got billions of dollars, you cannot avoid so many risks, you become a big target. "
And Google is the biggest Linux user out there. Microsoft has not sued Google for the $BIGPAYOFF. Neither does anyone believe that Microsoft will even attempt it.
"We do not think that Novell's Linux distributions violate valid patents"
Then do what Redhat has done. Novell could have indemnified its users just like Redhat. Doing so does not need the cooperation of Microsoft.
Signing the agreement with Microsoft has given PERCEIVED validation to Microsoft's claims. Signing the agreement "admits" that Linux has "problems" be they real or not. What I don't get is why Novell didn't see this coming and that you refuse to admit the reality of Microsoft's most recent FUD campaign being _started_ by this.
In the war of words that Microsoft is waging, perception is everything, and Novell handed the PR bullet to Microsoft on a silver platter.
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BMO
"Not when Microsoft have explicitly stated that it wasn't part of the original deal (which they have)"
But that was _one_ statement on _one_ day while they've been threatening world+dog that those who use Linux are infringing on Microsoft IP and "y'all better sign agreements with us like Novell if ya know what's good for ya"
It doesn't matter what Microsoft said in an obscure press release that didn't get _any_ reprinting in any of the rags. What counts is what they've been shouting from the rooftops.
"Doesn't sound like they're doing bad, right?"
Yeah, it's been so freakin' good that the GPL3 is going to stop stupid shenanigans like that. Thank God.
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BMO
I said:
:-P
I don't know about you, but that statement _me_ say "what the fuck?"
Should say "statement makes _me_" there. Preview? What's that?
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BMO
You know, this wouldn't be an issue if Novell was straight up about this in the first place, but since it's all so fucking secret, trying to explain it to people so they might understand is an exercize in futility.
JUST WHY DO NOVELL CUSTOMERS NEED PROTECTING FROM "MICROSOFT IP" BY THIS COVENANT NOT TO SUE?
Eh?
Nobody has explained that. John Dragoon has danced around it and totally ignored the issue. Miguel DeIcaza in his blog said that Sun "signed a similar agreement so they could distribute Gnome." I don't know about you, but that statement _me_ say "what the fuck?"
JUST WHAT THE HELL DID SUN BUY AND WHY DID THEY HAVE TO PAY MICROSOFT? Answer me that and the above question, in a straightforward manner, and I just might come over to your side of the argument, but nobody from either Novell, Sun, or Microsoft has been able to be forthcoming with anything that doesn't sound like tapdancing around the truth.
But no, we don't have any truth from any of the principals in this whole brouhaha. All we have is a bunch of lying weasels trying to paint the best picture for themselves and ass covers the size of the Moon.
Bitter? Moi?
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BMO
"They picked SuSE Enterprise. To some, partnership with recognised companies is a whole lot more important than any notion of ideals or ethics."
But Novell has already been a recognized company. I guess you missed the entire history of Novell and the urban legends of Novell servers being walled up like so many Fortunados, still running, but encased by wallboard (Alas, I have not run into any with bottles of Amontillado).
Novell is already famous. They didn't need Microsoft's blessing.
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BMO
Bullshit. Microsoft has the bigger bullhorn and the PR budget that just dwarfs Novell's entire market cap.
Just by merely signing the agreement, which is secret, allows Microsoft to say whatever the hell it wants, and Novell can do *fuck-all* about it. I have _zero_ sympathy for Novell, because they should have known better. And all of John Dragoon's (VP of PR) statements that this was good for Novell and its users are just laughable given Microsoft's actions in the intervening time since the signing.
If Novell was really looking out for its own interests, it should have given Microsoft two fingers up.
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BMO