Thanks for the helpful hint. I didn't know about that until now. (now I'll have to figure out what name my display manager is known by to systemd -- is there no end to the rabbit hole?) I'm still not sure, though, why systemd couldn't have left backward-compatible aliases around -- even if they spit out 20 caveats when you use them, including what commands I probably want to run instead. The command you suggested is shorter and more reasonable than what I figured out to use, but it's still way wordier than "killall gdm" or "telinit 3".
Also, I'm posting as me. Can you please do the same?
Also, I'm still not happy adopting an init system whose authors treat corruption of the journal as a "won't fix". Not happy at all. That's not an attitude that inspires confidence and I don't understand how any putative improvements in other areas out-weigh it, never mind the silly ones I've heard like "lower PID numbers!", "lower socket numbers!": yeah! as if that sort of stuff ever mattered.
To others: slackware will get my due consideration as will gentoo and alpine. Don't count on BSD escaping this nonsense, though. I understand Apple is pressuring Darwin to adopt a systemd like system there, too. Why, oh why!!?
Don't wait five years. I find systemd to be more and more annoying every day. The closest things I can find to "telinit 3" and "telinit 5", "systemctl isolate mulit-user.target" and "systemctl isolate graphical.target" (and talk about convoluted command lines!) can't be counted on to stop and restart the GUI part of my arch box.
Give me back my sysvinit. It may have looked crufty to some but it worked. systemd? meh
I'm running arch. Arch moved to systemd before I understood the issues at stake. I feel the systemd pain every day. I'm trying to get multi-head with nouveau working (a different set of pain, that I'll probably just switch to nvidia blobs to get around -- unless someone can point me where I want to be -- but I digress)
...and I don't understand why "systemctl isolate multi-user.target" vs. "systemctl isolate graphical.target" [try explaining THAT pair of command lines to start with] can't be expected to be as dependable as "telinit 3" vs. "telinit 5".
If I couldn't ssh into the box from somewhere else regularly, I'd be hitting the Big Switch a lot and we all know how well file systems take that kind of shenanigans.
I don't need to wait five years to hate systemd. I hate it more and more every day. My feelings do not extend to the authors -- as humans, they deserve my compassion and (in this case) pity. But I hate their software with a passion that grows more intense by the day. This is a sad day for Debian, it was one of the places I was thinking of escaping to.
Never mind using the word, cabal. I'm sure Mr. Poettering is very aware of its scary overtones and, in a mis-placed sense of mischief, he's push everyone's buttons with it.
But have you read the proposal there? It looks like "the cabal" means to have systemd as a virtual-box-hypervisor-like entity, able to select OS and version per login. Am I mis-reading something? This looks like 2nd System Effect gone absolutely berserk! I'll have to re-read the article to make sure his occasionally crusty English hasn't kept me from understanding something positive that "most users" really want whether they know it yet or not.
The article quoted above points to a paper that has some diagrams that shows how water would go through a branch -- no hoax here.
In brief, find a stalk of sappy wood -- my Dad showed us every spring how to make a whistle out of alder branches that look what the picture shows -- peel it, whittle it to size and then plug it into the end of a tube and gravity feed water through it.
Mod funny, no? I don't find it funny because it's devolution into plutocracy. bmajik's "A tale of two forums" reply in this subject has the right idea. the internet routes around defects...ank
I was under the impression that truly Classic Slashdot pre-dates AJAX by several years. If it's doing AJAX, it isn't "Classic" to anyone with a less-than-six-digit user ID, I'm afraid.
It's that until that scares me. You had me at "Most importantly, we want you to know that Classic Slashdot isn't going away." Everything after that clause -- and everything else in the post told me loud and clear that my opinion doesn't really matter. Thanks for the clarity.
What I do remember is being disappointed by every single redesign that I noticed as they happened. If you ask me, make everything feature-for-feature compatible with the pre-1997 design, write sanity tests that enforce that compatibility and then start innovating.
The CBC is almost like PBS without the begging. That's because (a) it gets a certain amount of money from government and (b) it actually runs commercials.
Its funding base was never as secure as that of the BBC (which used to be entirely funded from Television licenses) but once upon a time Canada used to practice "Universality" (not socialism, just good-neighbourliness) and living in a town in the 60s where the only available media was CBC (the then-equivalent of Radio 1 and CBC TV), we were thankful that their funding was stable and that they weren't an outright organ of any government.
As I said, it used to get a lot more money from the government than it does now, but thanks to Reagan-Thatcher-Murdoch and their local toad-in-Canada (Brian Mulroney) these moneys have shrunk, not quite to insignificance but substantially. Our current RTM-toad, Stephen Harper, has been cutting this cash still further -- along with his near Koch-like commitment to small government, this is also thought to be in revenge for the voice the CBC gave to folks from Ontario who were scared of him. (as his behaviour in office shows that they were right to be)
But other than a tendency to idolize Barbara Frum (skewer question) and Peter Gzowski (friendly to the point of deferential) too much, it still produces stuff like this.
This story is a tribute to the enduring ability of the small actions of individuals to effect real change. What opportunities are we all missing because we've already decided that it's just too hard? Let imaginations run wilder once more!
I clearly hadn't read more than the first few lines of the help on Java TimeZone info or I could have found out that the answer was already there, without having to wait for it. As another poster pointed out IBM already provides free Java timezone updates.
Let me google that for you! But more to the point, writing a tool that will grab those updates for yourself and storing it where you need it looks like a bash script or batch file candidate. Our brains are more than a match for Oracle's bean counters. Let's use them!
I've never heard the name Olson before in relation to timezone updates. Thanks for the enlightenment but yes, this article was at least a little bit necessary, if not as earth shattering as an approaching asteroid.
So, who is surprised by Oracle's move here? Nobody with a eyes and a brain. Oracle just doesn't know what to do with a community.
Does this make Microsoft or C# look so great? No way! They started out less free than Oracle is now and haven't really changed.
Why do I develop in Java (I also know C, C++ [and the assembler code they generate], Python, SQL [MS and non-MS dialects] -- so why choose Java?)? Because I want to write programs for my slightly less shackled Android phone.
And the next plan of action is...?
There are a bunch of options... for starters, google the problem. Next, just wait: some bright spark will put out a tool that uses local time zone info (configurable) to update some Java installation's (configurable) idea of time zones automatically (or not, configurable).
It happened with MySQL, it'll happen with Java. "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
Douglas Adams' fictional book cover still has the right initial instruction: "Don't Panic!"
In 27 years of professional software development I have watched numerous co-workers succumb to various RSIs, require ergonomic keyboards just to be able to bear the pain of working. The one difference I notice between me and these unfortunate folks is this: I avoid using the mouse.
I use keyboard shortcuts, I prefer a text editor that allows me to do everything including navigating from a standard QWERTY keyboard (in my case, the One True Editor, vim but there are other options -- I've also used BRIEF, OS-9's stylograph and IBM's Personal Editor in my time). Hot-keys, short-cut keys, accelerators, anything that keeps my hands on home row have been my safeguard.
It's also fair to say that I have been playing piano since I was 5 but I still think that "stay away from the mouse" is the best advice anyone will give you.
Sorry... just to be clear "This kind of comment" was referring to the question, "Why is Wikipedia so ugly?", not to parent. I agree with parent 100% and more.
This kind of comment comes from the same kind of morons who brought us the re-tooling, for instance, of GMail. It was great (to use) the way it was. Now I hear nothing (NOTHING!) but complaints about it (or blank stares which when probed yield statements of powerlessness). If the underlying code was ugly, the first update cycle should have been to upgrade the code in a way that none of the users would notice.
Note to Jimmy Wales: resist the UX-groupthink mob who would tell you to make Wikipedia more tablet friendly. If it's ugly, it's ugly the way the old White Pages were ugly. Ugly and informative. The way a real newspaper used to be ugly (especially the front sections up to where the editorials, letters and Op-Ed pieces lay): ugly, information rich and informative.
Note to the groupthink mob: if you must make something tablet-friendly, make sure it's still screen friendly during the design before you foist it on those of us who haven't caved-in to constant computing through tablet ownership.
<quickly hitting submit before going off and doing something real>...ank
Agile is just a structure. Like anything else, it's only going to be as good as the people you put in place to execute it. A properly constituted agile team will put documentation (of designs, code, deployment, whatever) up as stories/tasks that need to be accomplished right alongside working features. Documentation is an end-product just as surely as working code and unit tests are.
If the team doesn't identify those tasks and sign up for them, you hired the wrong people. Reform your recruiting process before you blame a process that delivers a working solution at the end of every sprint. And if your so-called Agile doesn't pretty much do that, then you really are being scammed.
cheers...ank (I've been a developer for 26 years; some form of Agile has covered the most productive and enjoyable parts of my careeer)
Slashdot Mirror
I will give slackware (and gentoo and alpine) due consideration. ...ank
Why not use: "systemctl stop "?
Thanks for the helpful hint. I didn't know about that until now. (now I'll have to figure out what name my display manager is known by to systemd -- is there no end to the rabbit hole?) I'm still not sure, though, why systemd couldn't have left backward-compatible aliases around -- even if they spit out 20 caveats when you use them, including what commands I probably want to run instead. The command you suggested is shorter and more reasonable than what I figured out to use, but it's still way wordier than "killall gdm" or "telinit 3".
Also, I'm posting as me. Can you please do the same?
Also, I'm still not happy adopting an init system whose authors treat corruption of the journal as a "won't fix". Not happy at all. That's not an attitude that inspires confidence and I don't understand how any putative improvements in other areas out-weigh it, never mind the silly ones I've heard like "lower PID numbers!", "lower socket numbers!": yeah! as if that sort of stuff ever mattered.
To others: slackware will get my due consideration as will gentoo and alpine. Don't count on BSD escaping this nonsense, though. I understand Apple is pressuring Darwin to adopt a systemd like system there, too. Why, oh why!!?
except in a VERY black way.
Don't wait five years. I find systemd to be more and more annoying every day. The closest things I can find to "telinit 3" and "telinit 5", "systemctl isolate mulit-user.target" and "systemctl isolate graphical.target" (and talk about convoluted command lines!) can't be counted on to stop and restart the GUI part of my arch box.
Give me back my sysvinit. It may have looked crufty to some but it worked. systemd? meh
I'm running arch. Arch moved to systemd before I understood the issues at stake. I feel the systemd pain every day. I'm trying to get multi-head with nouveau working (a different set of pain, that I'll probably just switch to nvidia blobs to get around -- unless someone can point me where I want to be -- but I digress)
...and I don't understand why "systemctl isolate multi-user.target" vs. "systemctl isolate graphical.target" [try explaining THAT pair of command lines to start with] can't be expected to be as dependable as "telinit 3" vs. "telinit 5".
If I couldn't ssh into the box from somewhere else regularly, I'd be hitting the Big Switch a lot and we all know how well file systems take that kind of shenanigans.
I don't need to wait five years to hate systemd. I hate it more and more every day. My feelings do not extend to the authors -- as humans, they deserve my compassion and (in this case) pity. But I hate their software with a passion that grows more intense by the day. This is a sad day for Debian, it was one of the places I was thinking of escaping to.
Never mind using the word, cabal. I'm sure Mr. Poettering is very aware of its scary overtones and, in a mis-placed sense of mischief, he's push everyone's buttons with it.
But have you read the proposal there? It looks like "the cabal" means to have systemd as a virtual-box-hypervisor-like entity, able to select OS and version per login. Am I mis-reading something? This looks like 2nd System Effect gone absolutely berserk! I'll have to re-read the article to make sure his occasionally crusty English hasn't kept me from understanding something positive that "most users" really want whether they know it yet or not.
cheers...ank
The article quoted above points to a paper that has some diagrams that shows how water would go through a branch -- no hoax here.
In brief, find a stalk of sappy wood -- my Dad showed us every spring how to make a whistle out of alder branches that look what the picture shows -- peel it, whittle it to size and then plug it into the end of a tube and gravity feed water through it.
simple...ank
Mod funny, no? I don't find it funny because it's devolution into plutocracy. bmajik's "A tale of two forums" reply in this subject has the right idea. the internet routes around defects...ank
because we still care enough about the community to want to make it better, even if we're powerless to do so.
I was under the impression that truly Classic Slashdot pre-dates AJAX by several years. If it's doing AJAX, it isn't "Classic" to anyone with a less-than-six-digit user ID, I'm afraid.
It's that until that scares me. You had me at "Most importantly, we want you to know that Classic Slashdot isn't going away." Everything after that clause -- and everything else in the post told me loud and clear that my opinion doesn't really matter. Thanks for the clarity.
What I do remember is being disappointed by every single redesign that I noticed as they happened. If you ask me, make everything feature-for-feature compatible with the pre-1997 design, write sanity tests that enforce that compatibility and then start innovating.
The CBC is almost like PBS without the begging. That's because (a) it gets a certain amount of money from government and (b) it actually runs commercials.
...ank
Its funding base was never as secure as that of the BBC (which used to be entirely funded from Television licenses) but once upon a time Canada used to practice "Universality" (not socialism, just good-neighbourliness) and living in a town in the 60s where the only available media was CBC (the then-equivalent of Radio 1 and CBC TV), we were thankful that their funding was stable and that they weren't an outright organ of any government.
As I said, it used to get a lot more money from the government than it does now, but thanks to Reagan-Thatcher-Murdoch and their local toad-in-Canada (Brian Mulroney) these moneys have shrunk, not quite to insignificance but substantially. Our current RTM-toad, Stephen Harper, has been cutting this cash still further -- along with his near Koch-like commitment to small government, this is also thought to be in revenge for the voice the CBC gave to folks from Ontario who were scared of him. (as his behaviour in office shows that they were right to be)
But other than a tendency to idolize Barbara Frum (skewer question) and Peter Gzowski (friendly to the point of deferential) too much, it still produces stuff like this.
Peace, Order and Good Governance forever!
cheers...ank
I clearly hadn't read more than the first few lines of the help on Java TimeZone info or I could have found out that the answer was already there, without having to wait for it. As another poster pointed out IBM already provides free Java timezone updates.
Let me google that for you! But more to the point, writing a tool that will grab those updates for yourself and storing it where you need it looks like a bash script or batch file candidate. Our brains are more than a match for Oracle's bean counters. Let's use them!
cheers...ank
I've never heard the name Olson before in relation to timezone updates. Thanks for the enlightenment but yes, this article was at least a little bit necessary, if not as earth shattering as an approaching asteroid.
cheers...ank
So, who is surprised by Oracle's move here? Nobody with a eyes and a brain. Oracle just doesn't know what to do with a community.
Does this make Microsoft or C# look so great? No way! They started out less free than Oracle is now and haven't really changed.
Why do I develop in Java (I also know C, C++ [and the assembler code they generate], Python, SQL [MS and non-MS dialects] -- so why choose Java?)? Because I want to write programs for my slightly less shackled Android phone.
And the next plan of action is...?
There are a bunch of options... for starters, google the problem. Next, just wait: some bright spark will put out a tool that uses local time zone info (configurable) to update some Java installation's (configurable) idea of time zones automatically (or not, configurable).
It happened with MySQL, it'll happen with Java. "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
Douglas Adams' fictional book cover still has the right initial instruction: "Don't Panic!"
cheers...ank
just wondering, hangning up and listening...ank
In 27 years of professional software development I have watched numerous co-workers succumb to various RSIs, require ergonomic keyboards just to be able to bear the pain of working. The one difference I notice between me and these unfortunate folks is this: I avoid using the mouse.
I use keyboard shortcuts, I prefer a text editor that allows me to do everything including navigating from a standard QWERTY keyboard (in my case, the One True Editor, vim but there are other options -- I've also used BRIEF, OS-9's stylograph and IBM's Personal Editor in my time). Hot-keys, short-cut keys, accelerators, anything that keeps my hands on home row have been my safeguard.
It's also fair to say that I have been playing piano since I was 5 but I still think that "stay away from the mouse" is the best advice anyone will give you.
cheers...ank
If someone thinks wikipedia looks so ugly, let them do the hard work of designing new CSS suites for what they think should look great
especially "...if you can't hold a developer for five years, then you have a morale problem that will cause pain..."
never said a truer word. even difficult legacy code can be endured if the company has no systemic negative morale factors.
cheers...ank
Sorry... just to be clear "This kind of comment" was referring to the question, "Why is Wikipedia so ugly?", not to parent. I agree with parent 100% and more.
cheers...ank
This kind of comment comes from the same kind of morons who brought us the re-tooling, for instance, of GMail. It was great (to use) the way it was. Now I hear nothing (NOTHING!) but complaints about it (or blank stares which when probed yield statements of powerlessness). If the underlying code was ugly, the first update cycle should have been to upgrade the code in a way that none of the users would notice.
Note to Jimmy Wales: resist the UX-groupthink mob who would tell you to make Wikipedia more tablet friendly. If it's ugly, it's ugly the way the old White Pages were ugly. Ugly and informative. The way a real newspaper used to be ugly (especially the front sections up to where the editorials, letters and Op-Ed pieces lay): ugly, information rich and informative.
Note to the groupthink mob: if you must make something tablet-friendly, make sure it's still screen friendly during the design before you foist it on those of us who haven't caved-in to constant computing through tablet ownership.
<quickly hitting submit before going off and doing something real>...ank
Agile is just a structure. Like anything else, it's only going to be as good as the people you put in place to execute it. A properly constituted agile team will put documentation (of designs, code, deployment, whatever) up as stories/tasks that need to be accomplished right alongside working features. Documentation is an end-product just as surely as working code and unit tests are.
If the team doesn't identify those tasks and sign up for them, you hired the wrong people. Reform your recruiting process before you blame a process that delivers a working solution at the end of every sprint. And if your so-called Agile doesn't pretty much do that, then you really are being scammed.
cheers...ank
(I've been a developer for 26 years; some form of Agile has covered the most productive and enjoyable parts of my careeer)
Because Apple's rate of innovation is about to drop past the rate of Microsoft's innovation?