Get the FUD: Internet Explorer 8 is more compatible with more sites on the Internet than any other browser.
Never mind the fact that IE has been a less than trivial SOURCE of incompatibilities over the years. Remember when your web page was cool because it had a marquee tag?
Mozilla at least partly limits their claims with the word "modern."
Who says they are developing software now? ABC uses Move Media player. They didn't develop their own, they contracted out. No real focus shifting for ABC, they're still focused on content.
The difference open standards would make would be felt by companies like Move Networks who really are and should be focused on how the content is delivered. To ABC its not that relevant as long as they get some level of assurance from Move that their content is somewhat secure. Judging from the content you see on torrents it seems to be just that. The content is ripped from cable TV. Path of least resistance it seems.
They thought they might counter this with online sites and make up the lost money in online advertising.
They might make more money from ads if they could get people to stop blocking them.
Flashing high contrast colors, telling users they're infected, blasting users back 10 feet with unexpected audio, waiting excessively longer to view a page with ads, spyware... fuck I could go on for days. Many people don't even trust ads enough to even click on them when something looks interesting.
Three most pushed buttons on your remote? ch-up, ch-down, mute. Making your ads 10 times louder didn't get them heard. It got them muted. When I need to make a collect call? I hit 0. I hate those ads so fucking much.
Someone needs to man up and say... no I won't run your ad because it gets us blocked. Sorry you can't run that ad on EZFM 106... its what makes people use mp3 players exclusively in their cars. Sorry we think this ad sucks so bad that it causes people to ch-up/down or mute. Sorry your ad suck so bad that even honest citizens are turning to torrents.
So some random dude standing up and awkwardly edging to one side of the screen in the middle of the movie... that's out? Where's your sense of adventure?
If they really want the community to decide then they should just make it a blank Wiki and let it go with the only restriction being that content be related to Linux.
It would mean the user has to stop and wait for an automated download and install process to run their programs for the first time. In order to maintain compatibility with existing software IE must be installed.
Ask the Wine community why they are implementing an IE replacement in Wine. Many programs depend on having IE and its API around to render HTML documents. Steam and WoW are two such titles for those who don't think its significant or wide spread.
Try this one. The Linux build of Prey preforms the same as the Windows build running under Wine. Prey preforms best on Windows XP.
If I were to hazard a guess the differences have mostly to do with drivers. Windows graphics drivers are often optimized for the more popular 3D engines used by games. Linux drivers for the most part aren't.
Here are a few quick and dirty benchmark runs of Prey on my admittedly old and crappy hardware. All settings are turned up to their maximum with the exception of antialiasing which is turned off in all runs (Not supported by Wine yet).
Linux build:
3545 frames rendered in 100.8 seconds = 35.2 fps
3545 frames rendered in 100.7 seconds = 35.2 fps
3545 frames rendered in 101.0 seconds = 35.1 fps
Windows build under Wine:
3545 frames rendered in 100.5 seconds = 35.3 fps
3545 frames rendered in 100.6 seconds = 35.2 fps
3545 frames rendered in 100.5 seconds = 35.3 fps
Windows build under Windows XP:
I don't have them. XP died a while back and I haven't got around to reinstalling (Take whatever you want from that). I do however know that when I tested them last year sometime that XP had a significant lead over both ways of running Prey on Linux.
What does all this have to do with Firefox? Nothing really. It has more to do with Wine once again not being a limiting factor in performance vs a "native" application.
No. KDE and Gnome are desktops. built into the distro perhaps, but not built into the OS.
We are talking about desktop operating systems. A discussion about wobbly windows doesn't fit in any other context. Sure a minimalistic definition of what an operating system is may exclude the user interface but that doesn't fit here in this discussion.
As with many loosely defined words and phrases in the English language, you need to use the definition that makes sense in within the context of the discussion.
If we are talking about KDE, Gnome, and OS X then yes KWin and Metacity are built in parts of the OS.
You don't go around correcting Mac users when they say their OS is user friendly do you? Or does it make you head explode when someone says "I like the default icon theme in OS X?"
Sorry I was a bit vague. I understand what 3rd party is in relation to the others two mentioned.
What I don't understand is people are talking as if Compiz is the only one out there. Both KWin and Metacity are default parts of their respective desktop environments. They are as much a "built in part of the OS" as KDE or GNOME is.
Compiz bing third party really is irrelevant in light of the other two that are essentially built in and mostly do the same thing. You make it sound as if you have to go out of your way to get these things. It's only 4 or 5 clicks with KDE 4.2 to get windows wobbling.
You could say "Windows don't wobble by default." and I'd take no issue with it because it's generally true. Don't make off like it's something the user has to go down some dark 3rd party alleyway to see some shady vendor to get.
The only thing that saves users is what gets decided as to be a reasonable default. It's not really that much of a stretch for distros to make things wobble by default and not touch the third party stuff.
Do you consider KWin (KDE) and Metacity (Gnome) "third party" also? Both are compositing window managers capable of mostly the same things offered by Compiz.
I've found that 4.2 * looks nice, * is slow to draw things on the screen, * still has fewer things working than its 3.5.x predecessor.
Although I found that I could alleviate most of the slow screen painting using desktop effects with KWin's composition manager. However, like all the other broken composition managers out there, you get a nice desktop that can't run 3D applications.
Lure them in with spinning cubes and wobbly windows and then break their hearts by telling them that all 4 of the 3D games that exist on Linux won't fucking work until they figure out a way to launch the game with the bling disabled.
If you can live on candy alone KDE 4.2 is for you. If you want something more nutritional, KDE 3.5, or Gnome (How ya doing Linus?).
It's been joked that 4.5 will be good again and then they'll start over. We'll see. Hopefully their "revolutionary" architecture changes allow for smaller incremental changes in the future. Unlike 3.5 which apparently had to be completely scrapped and rewritten from the ground up.
I think their plan is to prevent any browser from becoming too dominant.
Or perhaps they wish to further displace the dominance of one particular browser (which defaults to a competing search technology) and the standing of other browsers is really irrelevant.
Just do a few searches for tutorials. Visit a few forums and see what gets stickied as solutions to common problems.
Every time the solution involves editing some file and/or opening a terminal window... you're on to something that is not user friendly.
Windows tutorials start with "click" and Linux tutorials start with "At the sh prompt type..."
In a recent survey the a text editor is still the number one way to configure X. Sure the survey may not reflect all users, but if I were to guess I'd say that there are still quote a few users who end up using a text editor (or terminal) and not just for configuring X.
Think about all the times you've seen the solution "sudo apt-get". Why wasn't the user asked to go click something? These are the type of things that are still kicking Linux in the face.
I'm telling you, if you are curious what sucks about a product, work the general broad access tech support. Places that noob users find easily like linuxquestions.org and Ubuntu forums are a good place to look.
If you are that upset about it then just use KDE 3.5.x still and wait for the 4.x line to mature as much.
Yeah, I keep getting this from the KDE crowd. Just stay with KDE 3.5 until 4 comes around. The trouble is distributions have been setting 4 as the default practically since it attained RC status.
Everyone yelled at KDE developers, the developers yelled back at the distros for pushing it out so soon. Lots of flames all around. End user gets left with the "WTF KDE4=Vista I guess" impression.
What I'm waiting for is the KDE development team to come out and say "We're releasing KDE 4.?? and it's ready for users, finally." Apparently the rest have been tagged "Stick with KDE 3.5 if you have problems don't complain to me."
Don't get me wrong. The KDE folks are doing some great things, but their delivery sucks balls. Troll me up, but they could have done much more to save face.
The good stuff is coming. This I have faith in (all software choices are religious after all).
I've tried 11.0 and found it was fine running KDE 3.5.9. KDE 4 just lead to problems. Although I'm not sure that KDE 4 is the root of your problems, it was for me.
I am tempted to try 11.1 to see if the KDE is any greener, but I only have so much time I'm willing to throw at it. It'll probably take a few more excessively positive reviews for me to go after it.
Yes Mono. Software that would have required a Windows box is now running on a Linux box.
[sarcasm] It's terrible that organizations have another option for migrating to a non Microsoft Platform. Obviously they should rewrite their software from scratch or stay away from Linux. Linux is pure and holy!!! The power of Linus compels you!
Samba, Wine, Evolution, Pidgin, etc, etc, are all evil too. [/sarcasm]
Yeah I know... all those packages that could be useful for migrating away from a Genuine Microsoft OS are evil. You can go away now.
Slashdot Mirror
Get the FUD: Internet Explorer 8 is more compatible with more sites on the Internet than any other browser.
Never mind the fact that IE has been a less than trivial SOURCE of incompatibilities over the years. Remember when your web page was cool because it had a marquee tag?
Mozilla at least partly limits their claims with the word "modern."
But yes, everyone lies.
I'd mod you funny but I've completely lost faith in electronic voting.
So this is a non issue for Windows users?
Who says they are developing software now? ABC uses Move Media player. They didn't develop their own, they contracted out. No real focus shifting for ABC, they're still focused on content.
The difference open standards would make would be felt by companies like Move Networks who really are and should be focused on how the content is delivered. To ABC its not that relevant as long as they get some level of assurance from Move that their content is somewhat secure. Judging from the content you see on torrents it seems to be just that. The content is ripped from cable TV. Path of least resistance it seems.
They might make more money from ads if they could get people to stop blocking them.
Flashing high contrast colors, telling users they're infected, blasting users back 10 feet with unexpected audio, waiting excessively longer to view a page with ads, spyware... fuck I could go on for days. Many people don't even trust ads enough to even click on them when something looks interesting.
Three most pushed buttons on your remote? ch-up, ch-down, mute. Making your ads 10 times louder didn't get them heard. It got them muted. When I need to make a collect call? I hit 0. I hate those ads so fucking much.
Someone needs to man up and say... no I won't run your ad because it gets us blocked. Sorry you can't run that ad on EZFM 106... its what makes people use mp3 players exclusively in their cars. Sorry we think this ad sucks so bad that it causes people to ch-up/down or mute. Sorry your ad suck so bad that even honest citizens are turning to torrents.
So some random dude standing up and awkwardly edging to one side of the screen in the middle of the movie... that's out? Where's your sense of adventure?
If they really want the community to decide then they should just make it a blank Wiki and let it go with the only restriction being that content be related to Linux.
It would mean the user has to stop and wait for an automated download and install process to run their programs for the first time. In order to maintain compatibility with existing software IE must be installed.
Ask the Wine community why they are implementing an IE replacement in Wine. Many programs depend on having IE and its API around to render HTML documents. Steam and WoW are two such titles for those who don't think its significant or wide spread.
The alternative is to have broken applications.
Let me fix that for you...
Er wait, scratch that last part. I get carried away talking in this deep voice.
No shock here.
Try this one. The Linux build of Prey preforms the same as the Windows build running under Wine. Prey preforms best on Windows XP.
If I were to hazard a guess the differences have mostly to do with drivers. Windows graphics drivers are often optimized for the more popular 3D engines used by games. Linux drivers for the most part aren't.
Here are a few quick and dirty benchmark runs of Prey on my admittedly old and crappy hardware. All settings are turned up to their maximum with the exception of antialiasing which is turned off in all runs (Not supported by Wine yet).
Linux build:
3545 frames rendered in 100.8 seconds = 35.2 fps
3545 frames rendered in 100.7 seconds = 35.2 fps
3545 frames rendered in 101.0 seconds = 35.1 fps
Windows build under Wine:
3545 frames rendered in 100.5 seconds = 35.3 fps
3545 frames rendered in 100.6 seconds = 35.2 fps
3545 frames rendered in 100.5 seconds = 35.3 fps
Windows build under Windows XP:
I don't have them. XP died a while back and I haven't got around to reinstalling (Take whatever you want from that). I do however know that when I tested them last year sometime that XP had a significant lead over both ways of running Prey on Linux.
What does all this have to do with Firefox? Nothing really. It has more to do with Wine once again not being a limiting factor in performance vs a "native" application.
We are talking about desktop operating systems. A discussion about wobbly windows doesn't fit in any other context. Sure a minimalistic definition of what an operating system is may exclude the user interface but that doesn't fit here in this discussion.
As with many loosely defined words and phrases in the English language, you need to use the definition that makes sense in within the context of the discussion.
If we are talking about KDE, Gnome, and OS X then yes KWin and Metacity are built in parts of the OS.
You don't go around correcting Mac users when they say their OS is user friendly do you? Or does it make you head explode when someone says "I like the default icon theme in OS X?"
Context.
Sorry I was a bit vague. I understand what 3rd party is in relation to the others two mentioned.
What I don't understand is people are talking as if Compiz is the only one out there. Both KWin and Metacity are default parts of their respective desktop environments. They are as much a "built in part of the OS" as KDE or GNOME is.
Compiz bing third party really is irrelevant in light of the other two that are essentially built in and mostly do the same thing. You make it sound as if you have to go out of your way to get these things. It's only 4 or 5 clicks with KDE 4.2 to get windows wobbling.
You could say "Windows don't wobble by default." and I'd take no issue with it because it's generally true. Don't make off like it's something the user has to go down some dark 3rd party alleyway to see some shady vendor to get.
The only thing that saves users is what gets decided as to be a reasonable default. It's not really that much of a stretch for distros to make things wobble by default and not touch the third party stuff.
Do you consider KWin (KDE) and Metacity (Gnome) "third party" also? Both are compositing window managers capable of mostly the same things offered by Compiz.
The question is: Is KDE 4.2 better than 3.5.x?
I've found that 4.2
* looks nice,
* is slow to draw things on the screen,
* still has fewer things working than its 3.5.x predecessor.
Although I found that I could alleviate most of the slow screen painting using desktop effects with KWin's composition manager. However, like all the other broken composition managers out there, you get a nice desktop that can't run 3D applications.
Lure them in with spinning cubes and wobbly windows and then break their hearts by telling them that all 4 of the 3D games that exist on Linux won't fucking work until they figure out a way to launch the game with the bling disabled.
If you can live on candy alone KDE 4.2 is for you. If you want something more nutritional, KDE 3.5, or Gnome (How ya doing Linus?).
It's been joked that 4.5 will be good again and then they'll start over. We'll see. Hopefully their "revolutionary" architecture changes allow for smaller incremental changes in the future. Unlike 3.5 which apparently had to be completely scrapped and rewritten from the ground up.
Linux Kernel developers have done a fantastic job, but their job will never be over. I don't understand why they keep going.
I believe the word you are looking for is
WOOOOOOOOOOOSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
If you don't put a large bare foot next to it or it doesn't follow a well established pattern of humor (eg Soviet Russia), it cant be funny.
They had a LHC back then?
The only way to open IE at my house is with Wine. Fortunately they don't know where to get a copy of IE.
I think the bigger news is EXT4, which affects more than just boot time.
Or perhaps they wish to further displace the dominance of one particular browser (which defaults to a competing search technology) and the standing of other browsers is really irrelevant.
Just do a few searches for tutorials. Visit a few forums and see what gets stickied as solutions to common problems.
Every time the solution involves editing some file and/or opening a terminal window... you're on to something that is not user friendly.
Windows tutorials start with "click" and Linux tutorials start with "At the sh prompt type..."
In a recent survey the a text editor is still the number one way to configure X. Sure the survey may not reflect all users, but if I were to guess I'd say that there are still quote a few users who end up using a text editor (or terminal) and not just for configuring X.
Think about all the times you've seen the solution "sudo apt-get". Why wasn't the user asked to go click something? These are the type of things that are still kicking Linux in the face.
I'm telling you, if you are curious what sucks about a product, work the general broad access tech support. Places that noob users find easily like linuxquestions.org and Ubuntu forums are a good place to look.
I propose the new standard be called I. It's half way between G and K.
All in favor say I.
All apposed say G or K depending on your preferred religious background.
Yeah, I keep getting this from the KDE crowd. Just stay with KDE 3.5 until 4 comes around. The trouble is distributions have been setting 4 as the default practically since it attained RC status.
Everyone yelled at KDE developers, the developers yelled back at the distros for pushing it out so soon. Lots of flames all around. End user gets left with the "WTF KDE4=Vista I guess" impression.
What I'm waiting for is the KDE development team to come out and say "We're releasing KDE 4.?? and it's ready for users, finally." Apparently the rest have been tagged "Stick with KDE 3.5 if you have problems don't complain to me."
Don't get me wrong. The KDE folks are doing some great things, but their delivery sucks balls. Troll me up, but they could have done much more to save face.
The good stuff is coming. This I have faith in (all software choices are religious after all).
I've tried 11.0 and found it was fine running KDE 3.5.9. KDE 4 just lead to problems. Although I'm not sure that KDE 4 is the root of your problems, it was for me.
I am tempted to try 11.1 to see if the KDE is any greener, but I only have so much time I'm willing to throw at it. It'll probably take a few more excessively positive reviews for me to go after it.
Yes Mono. Software that would have required a Windows box is now running on a Linux box.
[sarcasm]
It's terrible that organizations have another option for migrating to a non Microsoft Platform. Obviously they should rewrite their software from scratch or stay away from Linux. Linux is pure and holy!!! The power of Linus compels you!
Samba, Wine, Evolution, Pidgin, etc, etc, are all evil too.
[/sarcasm]
Yeah I know... all those packages that could be useful for migrating away from a Genuine Microsoft OS are evil. You can go away now.