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Is It Windows 7, Or KDE 4?
An anonymous reader writes "Is it Windows 7 or KDE 4? In this video, ZDNet takes to Sydney's streets to find out what people think of what they think is a Windows 7 demonstration. The results are surprising." Or maybe they're not surprising at all.
Nope, it loads just fine.
Yes, Works just fine on my PC, my iPhone 404'ed it
9/10 people polled also couldn't tell the difference between rabbit shit and deer shit.
Congrats, kde4 has finally realized what macintosh has known all along and and microsoft is recently getting: It doesn't matter what you can or can't DO with an operating system as long as you look good while doing it.
Vista just caught a lot of flak because it was a worthless, intrusive piece of junk that got in the way of word processing, email, and video watching. KDE4 lets people do the tasks that they want to do and for people who can't tell the difference between a pentium and a hard drive, are you surprised they aren't hip to the latest window manager screenshots and developments? I'd like to see a spoof video where someone takes a gnome that's been crafted to look and act like OSX and do the same thing comparing Gnome to OSX
From what i've heard about kde4, the bugs in the 4.0 release might make most vista users feel right at home.
Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
I'll admit I fell for it. But in my defense, they showed it to me in the morning and I was really tired that morning for some reason. It's like someone switched out my usual high quality Columbian coffee with Folgers or something that day.
I mean; even the editors themselves state that there isn't any conclusion to be drawn here; "we've learned nothing" because there simply are too many factors to consider. People don't know Windows 7 or people don't know KDE. Or people don't really care at all. So; fun movie, move along.
Any OS can look impressive when you find a demo that shows off all the eye candy to its full extent. You could have shown these people DWM configured nicely they would think it would be the next generation OS, UI. Vista got good visual reviews too. The problem is when you start working with it, things change. KDE and GNOME while have a rather niced polished UI, you still need to do things the Unix/Linux way. The same with windows no matter what you do to the UI it is still windows and need to work with it.
What I find really funny comparing Windows/Gnome/KDE with a Mac. The Mac actually has a lot less eye candy, yet perception has it as having more.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
We've secretly replaced Your coffee with Fogers Crystals!
We did in fact not learn all that much from their little street intreviews. Apart from that people feel uncomfortable with Vista (what did that lady say -- "hard to get user-friendly with"?) we learnt that they seem to like the default looks of KDE 4. That's interesting, but not all that surprising.
Still a nice little laugh, that video.
It's very misleading, people could have pretended any OS or GUI, including MacOS-X - because the 1-2 min demonstration saying "look how easy it is" could have been a Vista desktop with a different background image, and people would be alike fooled. So the laugh was good, but it just shows how misleading suggestive presentations are, and what people truly value: easy to use, and they believe it (first) when you tell them, and get pissed (later) when it's not so as told (like in case of Vista).
This isn't a troll - I installed it with Suse 11.0 last year and though it was supposedly a release version it was utterly unusable, unstable and missing important features. I had to install 3.5.4 to actually get some work done. Since then I haven't bothered to check what state 4 is in now as I felt the KDE team (and Suse) had, to be polite, been rather dishonest about it. Is it worthwhile looking at it yet or should I just stick to 3.5 for the forseable future.
It is indeed surprising AND unsurprising.
The video ends with the two guys discussing "what have we learned today". FTFV:
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
I was waiting for the silly song about Windows 7 and KDE.
If you can't distinguish KDE from Windows, and vice versa, that's reason enough to avoid both.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
So what does this experiment show? That people just aren't computer savvy.
It's more than that. These people are involved. Give them the OS to take home to play with and they'll probably be mostly positive too.
You want to know MY opinion about your brand new OS that you spent billions in developing? You're going to listen to ME? Wow, I've got a good feeling about this already!
Windows 7, windows SEVEN blah blah blah The next version of Windows is making me annoyed. I want to suggest a new post.... Shakespeare expressed himself on windows 7 as ...
"Too much ado about nothing"
Anyone staging a demo can find a number of people to say oooh ahhhh.
Seriously. This is the problems with computers today. The perception of "usability" is not actual "usability."
We all know, at the end of the day, "usability" is how easy it is to accomplish one or more tasks, to a certain degree the ease at which you learn how to do these tasks, and lastly the predictability and reliability of accomplishing your tasks.
So, if something is easy to do, easy to learn, and rewards careful execution with consistent outcome, the thing is easy to use.
Now, where does flashy eye candy come in to that picture? It doesn't. That's why military vehicles are all drab colors. The criteria is utility not beauty.
Sure, I do *like* the way KDE 4 looks, but it is less usable than KDE 3.
Apps and games baby...Uhh, uh-huh, yeah.
Seriously thou, the rub comes in with what the Win32/64 platform can run more than anything else these days. Both Mac and GNU desktops are plenty mature enough to deal with what most normal users would want. The main thing is now the sheer force of inertia that the Windows platform has in terms of what it runs natively.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
At the end, they should have said:
"Have you ever heard of Linux?"
"What have you heard?"
"What you say if I told you this was Linux and not MS-Windows?"
I started the video, and it stuttered, and started over... with an actual demonstration of Windows 7. I had to reload the page to get the KDE4 prank video.
Was that supposed to be some kind of Zen test?
Explaining tabs in the browser is harder, the vast majority will still shut down the browser instead of just the tab they were in.
Although KDE4.2 is showing great promises it's all but ready for full roll out.
But I sure like the way they are moving, it's nice to look at and the way they are splitting configurations like through widgets is in my view nice if only because it's optional.
But even in this demo we can see one of the issues, while rolling through the windows you notice how a video window is momentarily loosing like what seems sinc.
Now once it'll get snappy like KDE3.5 and robust as the OS underneath...
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Exercises like this might be fun, but they have no practical purpose.
Linux desktops aren't marketed, they are judged by their users based on useful metrics: configuration options, stability, tools, etc.
In Windows world, 95, XP, and Vista were all marketed to the public primarily by showing static screens illustrating how pretty they were. Windows' classic interface looks bland today, but it was hip in the 90's. XP's fisher price interface was a hackish step further. Aero is a half-hearted catchup maneuver to Linux and OSX, delivered in a business-minded blandness that only Microsoft thinks is "innovative". Each of those versions were marketed the same, but received differently based on almost everything except their appearance. No one has ever said UAC prompts are pretty, they're too busy being annoyed by them.
Which desktop is more visually attractive has little to do with how much can be done with it, and how efficiently.
I've been using KDE4 since openSUSE started including the previews.
I felt the KDE team (and Suse) had, to be polite, been rather dishonest about it.
I don't know but to me it always seemed clear that the 4.0 was more a "early tester" release.
By now KDE4.2 is starting to get really usable and really configurable and could be used by more casual users.
Sure, if you have tons finely tuned stuff in KDE3.5, you'll really miss them.
But KDE4.2 offers enough basic functionality to be usable by most people.
Is it worthwhile looking at it yet or should I just stick to 3.5 for the forseable future.
If you don't depend on highly specific KDE3.5 customisations,
or if you're ready to spend time re-tuning everything again in a slightly different way,
then KDE4.2 is definitely worth giving a try.
On the other hand if you absolutely require the same level of ultra smooth-polished user experience that KDE3.5 offers, you'd better stick with the KDE3.x branch for now and probably wait until somewhere around the KDE4.5 version. (maybe just giving quick shot to KDE4.3 and 4.4 just to watch progress).
Ditto for KDE5.x in a couple of years : stay with KDE4.5 until that one matures. ;-)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
They learned that these people can't tell Windows 7, which they've never seen, from KDE 4, which they've also never seen. Amazing discovery.
What's really surprising is that all the people tested couldn't distinguish NinWM from either Windows or KDE. Three cheers for Ninnle Labs!
I don't think the three OS demographics have really changed at all, honestly. Apple still markets itself to people who don't really know anything (or want to know anything) about computers and will tend to buy software from Apple to match the computer and OS. And hipsters. Windows is still going to be the OS of choice for people who either grew up using it and aren't turned off enough to switch, or who spend considerable sums of money on games, or who just don't really care one way or the other. And people who do fist-bumps seriously. Linux is going to be the choice for hobbyists, geeks (I say this positively), people who've had terrible experiences with Windows and people who work in IT (and don't play current games much). None of the reactions of the people in the video would lead me to believe that there was anyone who'd break the preceding archetypes.
So, as a free OS, what does the Linux community gain from biting in to Microsoft's and Apple's market share? Why would you change Linux to make it more popular amongst people not necessarily inclined to make the switch? Think about it. If you make it pretty like Apple, you're either taking away from the trademark Linux efficiency, or you're wasting time better spent developing something else. If you make it attractive to game publishers, you've also got to make it user-proof, not just user-friendly, and that takes away a lot of the power of the OS as it stands.
It's like the Porsche Cayenne. Porsche coupes are great, because they're small, fast, and handle well. The Porsche Cayenne is sluggish, handles like crap, and is overpriced. Only guys in their 50's who go tanning and have jobs in sales buy Porsche Cayennes.
Lesson: It's better to do one thing well than several things poorly.
This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
Aero is a half-hearted catchup maneuver to Linux and OSX delivered....blandness
I like Vista's U/I way more than I like Gnome, so much so that I'm tempted to blow away my Linux partition to check out Windows 7. I think Vista nails the start bar and menus way more than Ubuntu does. It's a personal preference I guess, because honestly, I really didn't care for XP that much, except it was a WinNT kernel that could play games better than Win2k could, but, Vista I really like.
I actually like Vista's start bar. The click in place rather than expanding is different but, the exploding start menu in 95-XP always drove me nuts when I inevitably loaded up with lots of programs, so the change makes sense. The use of the wheel mouse here is excellent. Recent Items in Vista actually seems to work whereas in XP it was always kinda "off". The search tool is nice to have, and I find it to be more useful than the one in KDE 4.2. Vista's Connect To VPN is just spot on. I love that. The way Vista does the application thumbnail in the task switcher on the bottom is rather spot on to me... I would not mind if the mouse over preview was actually a tad bit bigger.
I like right click "preferences" on the desktop. It's way more thought out, and Vista's file folder dialog and file | open dialog is really good. Gnome's always had problems with lightweight file dialogs and Microsoft's under Vista are just really good.
Some people complain about how Vista changed the control panel around. I honestly think some of those changes are long overdue. I wouldn't mind seeing Gnome style themes dialog in Vista, to be sure, but I don't change themes all that often anyway largely because so many of the downloaded themes tend to suck. There's not that many for Gnome enough to be worth it and I'm honestly not going to pay for one for Vista. KDE's customize everything is pretty nice but honestly I only do that because the default font size in Ubuntu seems to be more for blind people than users. 8pt text please!
I like how Gnome does ISO's better and PDF thumbnails than Vista does. But, all in all, I'm not burning DVDs all the time and for that reason, the thumbnail is not nearly as useful as a good list view sorted by date, and there Vista works out better for me.
So yeah, Linux has its advantages, but I think that for at least me, I prefer Vista's user interface.
As far as catching up goes, I think, Linux still has some catching up to do. There is no C++ framework that makes an app as sharp looking as Microsoft's Fluent U/I does with MFC. Yeah, MFC is maligned as a porker, because, back then, we were resistant to the idea of C++ frameworks, but, all GUI frameworks are fat these days. And, the funniest thing, is that, with Windows I still get better database client connectivity, and, there's still no native grid control in GTK, and the grid control in WxWidgets sucks donkey dick, but the one in MFC works pretty good, and there's plenty more you can download, buy, etc, largely because Windows SDK is still pretty easy to make widgets for and Linux just doesn't have a good widget framework to stand on, because there are too many. Maybe if everyone settles on Qt, it will get better, but right now, a good grid for Linux is a rare thing.
This is my sig.
In Gnome: System | Preferences | Appearance | Fonts | Subpixel rendering
Fixed. Better fonts. (not sure about KDE)
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
I set up my wife on my PC on another virtual terminal - (ctl-alt-F8), it automatically logs her in on boot-up, and whenever she needs "her" stuff, it's all there for her. With all her own passwords. Plus, my "stuff" remains untouched - so whether I'm downloading torrents, or in the middle of composing an email, wp, graphic, presentation...it's all still there when she's done (ctl-alt-F7, back to me)
Simple.
cheers,
You only read it as racist because of the context within this thread ... if somebody just saw a t-shirt out on the street that said "I am what I am because of how apes behave" they'd probably interpret it as being about evolution and a rejection of creationism.
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
... it still lacks the killer apps. People want MS Office and Quickbooks and such. I use OpenOffice but I can see why non-geeks wouldn't like it. We should put much more effort into this rather than into pure eye candy.
Ubuntu on primary work desktop since Dapper Drake (2006).
I tried the KDE4.2 Windows install the other day specifically because I want to be able to run Amarok on both Win and Linux platforms. Unfortunately Amarok crashes with an error immediately after startup, so for this user KDE for windows is worthless (for now).
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
I'd argue MacOS on that particular point. Mainly because it's a BIG deal for a non-trivial part of their traditional user base.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
then you will see the difference. Pop in your latest game you just purchased at Best Buy. What do you mean it won't install?? I love linux, and it works for me. But saying there is something significant because people on the street like the look of KDE4 thinking it is Win7 is completely meaningless.
A comparison if one product is useless. I guess the point was people will believe the man with the microphone. What would be better would be to have say the windows 7 beta running in a booth with an enthusiastic person displaying one UI, and another both with KDE. Tell the people that they have a vote in UI, and allow them to voice their opinions after seeing both. PS. I went back to gnome after a week of KDE 4.1..
You do realize that Mark Shuttleworth (Ubuntu founder) is from South Africa, where there are a lot of black people, and the name Ubuntu is an African word?
Just because the demographics of the users you know are mostly white males doesn't mean they all are, you self-centered twit.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
My brother is too scared to move to Linux, but I installed Blackbox on his Vista laptop and he loves it! He notices his applications run a lot faster, and the UI isn't too cluttered. I've recently moved to Xubuntu 8.10 from SuSE 10.0 and am now officially in love with Xfce - I can't really see the appeal of KDE or Gnome, they're too bloated and waste memory. Xfce keeps it simple, whilst making the desktop look pretty & run fast too.....i've used many WMs over the years, BlackBox, AmiWM, IceWM, Window Maker and even RiscOS, and I find Xfce is at the top for me! Each to their own I guess...
http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
Why are we so proud of mimicking windows? There are several places we have the opportunity to do things BETTER, so why don't we?
1) task bars. Why even use them? desktop menus for launching, and docks for applets are a much more elegant and intuitive solution.
2) application behavior. cut/paste in nautilus, for example (I know, this is a KDE article), is ridiculous. The way that rox-filer does things makes a helluva lot more sense from both a usability and efficiency standpoint.
etc.
I don't see mimicking the confusing UI mess that is windows (or even macos) as a good thing.
So... you wouldn't be interested in knowing that Plasma works pretty good in Windows7, unless you use multiple monitors. Amarok is almost usable.
For a little while, I actually had my windows7 looking pretty much like the video. Biggest diffrence was 'document flip' looking different from the compfusion equivalent.
for the ac sibling: 7 does add some new UI stuff to XP. I actually like it more and there isn't too big a difference in performance. The new task bar and better integrated search(particularly for the control panel) really do make a lot of things easier. I deal with a lot of images, and the new preview pane in windows explorer is nice. None of this gets in the way of productivity, and once you get used to using them, they will save you time, energy and clicks.
Different phones have have different web browsers built in so saying "it loads on my desktop but not on my phone" is as useful as saying "it loads on one of my laptops but not the other" without mentioning that those laptops have different operating systems and web browsers.
Note: I work for a cellphone company and had a whole lot of fun helping to test the browsers built into different phones for compatibility and usefulness.
So far the best at rendering pages has been the Nokia E61i
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Until they try to install Outlook or Quicken or a new Game or any other Windows-only software that they consider essential.
And then the illusion is broken.
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
I once again have to put up a new year as another one _not_ to recommend Linux on the desktop
Without stating your reasons why, that statement is meaningless. If anyone posted your comment with the words "Linux" and "Windows" reversed you'd be modded troll or flamebait. WHY do you think Linux isn't ready?
Does it run well the software I use, or sufficiently familiar software that productivity is increased enough to justify the change?
It either runs via wine (IINM there's an equivalent FOSS app) nearly all Windows apps, or equivalent (yes, games are out, that's what consoles are for. PCs no longer have superior graphics to TVs). If you have a specialized app that won't run in Linux, you are the exception, not the rule.
Linux's "scratch an itch" GNU foundations almost by definition make it unsuitable for mass desktop deployment
Your "I said it so fucking listen" attitude smells of the corner office. If so, know that I find folks like you to be completely clueless about the real world. Your italicized statement is patently false. You point that out yourself by saying "On the contrary, many admins and programmers are also the geeks who develop Linux, so Linux is successful here", well you know, All of them use desktop computers as well.
I'm offended by your air of ignorant superiority.
P.S. Why the disproportionate number of women and black men on all the Ubuntu merchandising pages?
Because the advertisers know who their target audience is - Folks who run Linux or who may in the future. I find political correctness appalling as well, but if dogshit sells shoes (if I may make an unpleasant metaphor) then you need lots of dogshit in your shoe commercials.
Free Martian Whores!
Back in CDE days on the HP boxes, a transparent square would shrink down and drop toward the bar if it was being minimised. If it minimised it went to the screen .you don't (if you're tidy) put your documents ON YOUR DESKTOP, you put them away below your desk in the folders.
What you DO put on your DESKTOP are the documents you are currently working on.
So executable icons on the desktop? No. That breaks the metaphor. Unless you're an untidy pig.
But even if it DID drop to a taskbar, there was no need for a slurp. We don't SEE things slurp. We may see them disappear out of the field of view, run to the distance or even scrunch up. We don't see a lot of slurping.
Which isn't a problem except that you use "slurp is good because it helps the metaphor" in your defense of it.
It's as much eye candy as wibbly windows.
You only read it as racist because of the context within this thread ... if somebody just saw a t-shirt out on the street that said "I am what I am because of how apes behave" they'd probably interpret it as being about evolution and a rejection of creationism.
+3 insightful. Most of the thread is off-topic, but this response is dead on.
but at least Windows 7 has the decency to come with a "pre-release" label. KDE 4 was released and placed in production repositories when it should still be marked as development. Ok, I'm bitter.
Speaking of not enough information. What browser does the E61i use?
You do realize that Mark Shuttleworth [wikipedia.org] (Ubuntu founder) is from South Africa...
I'm not sure what the birthplace of the founder of a project should have to do with the nature of its marketing material. Another blow to the hope that Linux might have some business sense.
...where there are a lot of black people [wikipedia.org]
Yep, you're the kind of patronising liberal I was talking about - one that needs to give me a link to a Wikipedia entry to prove(?) that South Africa has mostly black people, as if it was the duty of some white elite to somehow educate the masses on the great multicultural globe out there.
and the name Ubuntu is an African word
Bahahaha. So, because the name is derived from a word of African origin, we need to show a disproportionate amount of African (well, black, but what's the difference to an ignorant feel-gooder) men? Does that make any sense at all?
This is also a good time to point out that "Ubuntu" is not a pleasant sound to the Anglo-Saxon tongue, or really a familiar combination of sounds to any European language. Or Asian. Since English (that's English, buddy - sorry to burst your self-loathing bubble) is the international language, it's important to be able to market your flagship product with a word that at least sounds vaguely familiar to the English native.
Just because the demographics of the users you know are mostly white males
I suggest you use your awesome Wikipedia browsing skills to find out the following information (or, preferably, somewhere more reliable).
1. The proportion of people with home desktops in America, Europe and Asia vs the proportion in Africa;
2. The proportion of people living in America, Europe and Asia who are black vs the proportion in Africa;
3. The male/female ratio in Linux user groups, of Linux kernel/userspace developers, of people employed using Linux, and of Linux install surveys across the world;
Finally, you living insult to any meaningful cultural progress, how about explaining to me why any of your arguments at all are relevant to my visit of the Ubuntu US store?
doesn't mean they all are, you self-centered twit.
Since you brought ad hominem into this, can I point out that my extended family mix Spanish and Afro-Carribean? So, the proportion of black Linux users I know probably exceeds the proportion that exist worldwide. But so does the proportion of black computer users I know, most of whom do not use Linux and who may be completely put off Linux by Ubuntu's patronising marketing.
This weekend, take 25 minutes to watch any episode of South Park which features a black kid. What is his name? Who do you think Parker&Stone are mocking there? That's right, it's you, the guilt-ridden white man who thinks that plastering an image of a one black man everywhere is somehow going to achieve oneness with every man in Africa. Idiot.
My intent with that comment was not to be labeled as flamebait, but to suggest that, if Windows is routinely criticized for its shortcomings, then touting a competitor as being indistinguishable is really damning with faint praise.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
What a dumb video. Seriously. I work with both Windows and Linux. I will admit I am a Windows Network engineer first so I may be a little biased. On the other hand I have built several linux systems and even Beowulf and Rocks clusters, getting programs such as NAMD running for colleges. So I think I have enough experience to make an educated opinion. Linux is still not refined enough for most home users, nor does it have all the software. If all someone does is surf the internet and write letters it would be good, provided someone set it up for them. But unlike windows it's not as easy as say, buy printer -> Put in Disk -> click install. For Linux you have to start by downloading the correct package and work from there. It is a lot more of a pain in the ass. Throw in that most people will be polite when seeing something another person is obviously excited about, and you have what we got here. A dumb video.
I have been able to configure KDE to look exactly like Windows for the last 5 years. There are Windows themes for KDE and with a bit of icon toying you can make it look exactly like Windows 98/2000/XP. I don't know about Vista because I honestly haven't even seen a Vista installation and I hope I never will. My parents have been running Ubuntu for the last 2 years, I run Mac's, Fedora, Ubuntu and virtualized Windows XP at work so there is no real reason to pay for upgrades.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
this may rise the resolution of the fonts a bit, but still, the linux fonts themselves are ugly as hell and have strange kerning.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
not really. mac are better than linux fonts, that's for sure, but vista (and even xp) beats macos x hands down.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
WHY do you think Linux isn't ready [for the desktop]?
The businesses involved in its core development do not know how to, and sometimes do not even want to, research the needs of the average desktop user, let alone provide for them.
It either runs via wine (IINM there's an equivalent FOSS app) nearly all Windows apps,
Yes, that's another reason for not advocating Linux on the desktop - its fanboys come out with even more outlandish bullshit than Microsoft. Wine runs a few apps OK, and most apps not sufficiently well to recommend to the non-technical user in a business or consumer environment. Also, if you're using Wine for your main apps, why aren't you just running Windows anyway?
or equivalent (yes, games are out, that's what consoles are for. PCs no longer have superior graphics to TVs).
Oh, bravo, Sir, bravo. "Linux doesn't run games but that doesn't matter because gamers shouldn't be using PCs at all." Tell the consumer that he is doing it entirely wrong and should buy totally separate systems and more expensive games just because the alternative you offer is deficient.
If you have a specialized app that won't run in Linux, you are the exception, not the rule.
OOo is less stable and has fewer features, as well as worse support for industry standard (not "RFC-standard" or whatever, as we're working in the real world, buddy) file formats. Since Office is Microsoft's killer app, the lack of worthwhile competition already makes it the "rule" that Linux is deficient. I started using Linux in 1995, NetBSD in 1994, and the only game Unix has been playing on the client side - with the exception of OS X - is catchup.
e. You point that out yourself by saying "On the contrary, many admins and programmers are also the geeks who develop Linux, so Linux is successful here", well you know, All of them use desktop computers as well.
Erm, yes, I use Linux on home and work servers... but Windows and OS X on the desktop. Also, a high proportion of admins/developers are geeks, whereas a low proportion of people who use a desktop are geeks, so your counterargument is flawed.
I'm offended by your air of ignorant superiority.
Have you thought about a box of tissues and a couple of hours in front of Lifetime? I'd call it pussification but I'd offend my considerably more hardy cat, who is able to confront something he doesn't quite agree with without cowering under the blanket of "offence". Mommy, mommy, he said something I don't like!
Because the advertisers know who their target audience is - Folks who run Linux or who may in the future.
1. At the risk of repeating myself, if advertisers are trying to target current or future users, why are they putting so many women and black men in their adverts? Do you have any evidence at all that Ubuntu appeals to women as much as it does to men? Or is it another case of falsely assuming that you target group X by slapping a few smiling faces of group X on your product advertising?
2. The problem wouldn't be so significant if they'd randomly featured various genders and races: what's patronising is the way they've (contrary to all results that would come from chance) repeatedly selected 50% women, 1 token black man, and omitted white men when featuring less than three people.
If you want some help with successful marketing, I suggest you look either at today's Apple or at 1990s Microsoft (esp. Windows 95 era). Stop failing and then getting angry at those who point out where you might be going wrong.
Didn't anyone watch the video closely? Look at 0:38. This is your typical Linux desktop. The picture not only opens slow, but first appears scrambled, then finally looks like it's supposed to. This is very sloppy. The overall speed of the KDE desktop is very sluggish and slow. Moving windows, maximizing or minimizing, opened or closed, it all appears very labored. I've yet to see a single Linux setup that was fast and responsive, no matter if a high end 3d card was used with the default drivers or proprietary ones. This video lives up to my expectations. Linux is very weak in the graphics department.
Any why am I not surprised this particular piece of journalistic fluff comes from Australia? I know it's bad to stereotype, but most of the Australians I've met seem to harbor a large amount of contempt for anything related to the United States. All the better for Linux, since it gives them a way to distance themselves from a large American company (i.e. Microsoft).
"When you see a unixer brainwashed beyond saving, kick him out of the door." - Xah Lee
I don't understand how those people could "still be learning Vista". They probably all just use a word processor, the Internet, an e-mail client, and maybe some application specific to their job. To do those tasks in Vista is negligibly different from XP. The task bar is pretty much the same and the start menu isn't much different. They probably attribute changes to the software their running to changes in Windows.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
Opera, I think.
http://pinopsida.com
ZDNet's flash player sucks and didn't load so I found the actual flv.
http://media.cnetnetworks.com.au/video/2009/02/22470997/22470997.flv
I use Bitstream Vera Sans on both Windows and Linux...and the spacing seems to be the same so I don't know what you are referring to. Maybe you need to get another font? There are literally hundreds of free fonts that work just fine.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
"The picture not only opens slow, but first appears scrambled, then finally looks like it's supposed to .. Linux is very weak in the graphics department .. most of the Australians I've met seem to harbor a large amount of contempt for anything related to the United States"
.. :)
You can tell all this from a half-second video glitch
Put it in their home for a month and re-visit the matter. Sure Vista is the least fun of all operating systems but Linux is not going to take it's place. I used Linux as my primary OS for years, and until there is mainstream software and hardware support it will not make substantial inroads in the home. I switched because there was no Quicken/Quickbooks support. I know there are other options but none as polished as Inuit's. I finally ended up with a MAC :)
"Linux is still not refined enough for most home users, nor does it have all the software. If all someone does is surf the internet and write letters it would be good, provided someone set it up for them. But unlike windows it's not as easy as say, buy printer -> Put in Disk -> click install"
..
All I can say is, that you experience isn't the same as my experience. What equivalent software isn't available on Linux that the average home user would need. Installing printers under Linux is as you described, except you don't need to 'put-in-disk' or click install, it picks it up automatically.
"For Linux you have to start by downloading the correct package and work from there. It is a lot more of a pain in the ass"
For a network engineer who built beowulf and rocks cluster you do seem to be most ignorant of the current distros. Just get a hold any current liveCD insert and boot the machine, and that's it. With Ubuntu you then have an option to do a full installation, and most/all the software the average home user would need comes on the DVD and don't need to be bought in as extras
KDE 4, MacOSX, Windows 7, Windows Vista... Too much bling and not enough customisation in the UI for me.
You think Mac OS X has too much visual eye candy? Really?
That's interesting because a lot of the Mac users I encounter think Mac OS X is very dull looking. My own system has the graphite appearance on (the one visual option Apple gives you) and that's just a lot of gray. Even the folders are a muted, flat blue-gray color in Leopard.
I actually think Apple needs to crank it up to compete with Vista because that UI is visual tour de force in Aero mode. In basic mode, on the other hand, the UI just looks awful; awash in a hellish sea of oversized light blue gradient. That was Win 7 in a virtual appliance.
I like the OS X use of animation but the overall "bling factor" is quite low.
So, I googled "RA3 disk" and the top hits are "doesn't work", "won't install", "install doing nothing"... Digging down a bit further, the suggestion is to "update the drive firmware". And I discover that this magic "RA3" costs 30 pounds...
I guess you WOULD have the same level of success installing this into a Linux box. :)
After all, it doesn't do anything on a Windows box, either.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
"Pop in your latest game you just purchased at Best Buy. What do you mean it won't install??"
..
Personally, if I want to play games I would buy a Playstation, else use something like this or this
Opera can be installed, but it is shipped with the default S60 browser, which uses Webkit.
There are fonts that I use on Linux that look ugly on Windows. There are fonts that I use on Windows that look ugly on Linux. But I prefer Brioso and Droid Sans Mono over Tahoma, so I'll take Linux font rendering any day.
Based on current percentages, only one friend out of a hundred will (potentially) have the answer, whereas nine out of ten know or use Windows.
Heck, I use a Mac, and I've STILL used Windows.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
If it crashes once a week, it's Windows 7 bar...
If it crashes once a session, it's KDE 4...
How did KDE screw this up so bad?
Well, yes...I read it as racist because of the repeated use of words like "Niggerbuntu"
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Some sites are set up to redirect only iPhone traffic to a different version of the site...some places generalize that into a mobile version. Regardless, it's perfectly valid, and even helpful, to specify thta you're talking about the apple device in particular.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
It's a good thing it was a controlled demonstration. Usually you can tell it's KDE 4 when it throws a SIGSEGV and the system explodes when you try to shut down your computer or when systray icons get garbled because they're not KDE 4 apps.... or, you know, they realize that Kopete seems as though it were made to be sort of a "shock/torture/horror/saw"-like experience for User Experience designers-- like a snuff film, but with UI guidelines instead of a brazillian woman. Maybe they'd figure it was KDE when they realized that their desktop is actually not really a desktop folder but a layer for widgets... something far less useful and sensical than what you'd usually do with desktop space on windows or mac. Imagine if instead of a desktop, Vista just had that sidebar. Yikes.
This whole thing is basically meaningless because people just aren't that tech savvy. You show them something new and graphical- and KDE 4 based its look heavily on Vista, so they can say "Windows 7 looks like KDE"- but really, how are they to know you're lying to them. The desktop is meant to mimic Windows so what's the big surprise?
You really have to use both systems to realize that KDE 4 is so godawful that comparing it to Windows 7 is practically a sort of curse or vulgarity that should be punished by stoning.
The businesses involved in its core development do not know how to, and sometimes do not even want to, research the needs of the average desktop user
That's the problem with Windows, it's geared to the lowest common denominator. They don't seem to do a great job of researching what people want. They build it their way and use their monopoly to shove it down everyone's throats. Take Office, for example. If they'd researched, they'd have known that the disapearing menu items was a stupid idea before the package was released. They'd know that having a forward slash on the internet but a backslash in directories confuses people.
In short, your argument is full of holes.
Wine runs a few apps OK, and most apps not sufficiently well to recommend to the non-technical user in a business or consumer environment. Also, if you're using Wine for your main apps, why aren't you just running Windows anyway?
Because most home use of a computer is internet and email, and most business use is office software, both of which are included in avery Linux distro. Only something like Photoshop needs Wine.
"Linux doesn't run games but that doesn't matter because gamers shouldn't be using PCs at all." Tell the consumer that he is doing it entirely wrong
The consumer ISN'T doing it wrong. The legion of gamers using the PC is dwindling rapidly since TVs caught up with monitors, and game companies have several very big advantages writing for consoles.
The consumer is buying consoles. No need to tell him anything.
OOo is less stable
I've not heard that before. What about it isn't stable?
and has fewer features,
That's a plus. If I don't use a feature, all it serves is to waste my drive space and slow down my computer.
as well as worse support for industry standard (not "RFC-standard" or whatever, as we're working in the real world, buddy) file formats
The real world has standards bodies that set standards for all sorts of things. Would you buy a lamp that only used GE bulbs? You're giving me more Microsoft hubris. Your own arguments illustrate a great deal of what's wrong with the Microsoft Way.
Also, a high proportion of admins/developers are geeks, whereas a low proportion of people who use a desktop are geeks, so your counterargument is flawed.
Your horse is in front of your cart. Non-geeks don't develop software.
Have you thought about a box of tissues and a couple of hours in front of Lifetime?
Do you get paid well for your trolls?
Free Martian Whores!
This "effect" is only present with a compositing window manager. I guess the root of the problem is in X server. It doesn't matter what video chipset do you have. I have an Intel integrated video chipset and I also experience this "feature", but only if compiz is running.
I remember a couple years ago with beryl on my laptop and a very white theme on emerald and my KDE desktop and every odd person that looked at it would ask "Is that Mac on a Windows Laptop?". Then later I switched to a dark/black theme and it was "How'd you get Vista on your laptop? it hasn't come out yet". *sighs*
Different phones have have different web browsers built in so saying "it loads on my desktop but not on my phone" is as useful as saying "it loads on one of my laptops but not the other" without mentioning that those laptops have different operating systems and web browsers.
I agree with this, but when he doesn't mention his desktop platform or browser, the post just comes off as "OH HAI I HAS AN IPHONE".
Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
I Sir, will have you know I'm a civilized primate and only fling poo at others during football season.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
(yes, games are out, that's what consoles are for.)
That is an overestimation. Many games run under wine, and number of supported games grows constantly. IMO that's very good since I hate consoles.
Because it GETS IN YOUR HEAD. When someone says "My iPhone", what they're desperately trying to say is "PLEASE GET THIS BRAINSUCKING ALIEN OUT OF MY HEAD!"
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
What kind of device do you have implanted?
Free Martian Whores!
I'm not particularly surprised. The last time I went to check with my school's network helpdesk, the admin said to me bluntly, "no, our wireless networks do not support Linux". The admin assistant, whom I asked before consulting the admin, asked me what Linux was, after apparently looking through a pile of user manuals for Windows XP, Vista, and Mac OS X.
I don't blame them, but, would a school not save much by cutting back on Windows and adopting a free OS? Assuming it's $200 per license, per PC, and the labs with 40 or so machines, that's quite a bit. Even if it was a lump sum for coverage of the entire facility, wouldn't it still be a significant sum of money? Suppose that amount was used in installations of better facilities, or upgrading old machines, would that not be a better usage of government subsidised funds?
People want things that work, and all that everyday person wants is a system that works, without that much hassle. I suggested to certain lecturers in charge of the school's elearning development lab to try open source alternatives to certain software they were using. I wrote in my summary report (I was attached there for a couple of months) to try GIMP and Audacity. Some of you may point that, well, GIMP isn't all that spiffy when it comes to it's user interface, and it lacks a considerable amount of features. I've seen what the lab uses Photoshop for, and I know, for a fact, GIMP has more than enough built-in features. The slightly dated machines also struggled with anything after Photoshop CS2, much less the newest version of the Photoshop license. After all, a system that fits the user's needs should be foremost in considering adoption, no?
I'm not really fanatical about using Linux. I admit, I'm a noob when it comes to this. I only started using Ubuntu since November last year, I can work around some stuff with guides, and the most minimal of command line. Now I tried to reach out to friends and classmates and introduce Linux (I told them of other distros too, not just Ubuntu). It was interesting to see that they were more interested by the flashy (arguably bloat) stuff that Compiz could do than the other features I told them about. One tried and gave up after he could work wireless within school on a linux system. I only stayed on because my Windows was borked, and the school possesses the reinstallation disk (I'm too lazy to go to that office and reinstall), and so I made the best of what I could.
As much as I have grown weary of Windows and it's flaws, I cannot deny that Windows 7 is decent and is at least heading in some direction towards what consumers may want (the bells and whistles, perhaps). Everydayfolk don't really care what it is, as long as it works like it's supposed to (or what they think it's supposed to).
I hate to feed the trolls... but I've been using 7 for over a month now... on a 5 year old AMD 3500+ system. Other than a couple initial problems that were mainly my fault, I have yet to have any stability issues.
This includes no stability issues with the VMWare Guest OS of Windows 7 that I have installed on top of 7 (Or stability issues with Ubuntu Server 8.10, Fedora 9, Fedora 10, etc in guest VMs).
Now... I know I can't speak for everyone... but I speak for myself. 7 has been as stable as can be - with the ONLY exception being when I installed in on a 7 year old laptop with onboard video with only 32mb (7 apparently needs 64mb to be happy)
unless of course you are refering to KDE4? Which doesn't make sense either... because that doesn't crash on my Fedora machine either.
So please... tell me what is informative about this post? Sounds like fanboi bashing of a system that someone they know didn't like without test driving it themself.
The man on the street interview returns the results your audience wants to hear. Faux Fox News For Nerds.
Meaningless, but amusing.
I particularly like how one of them said they liked the window switching effect - which is actually *included* in Vista but *removed* Windows 7 :-)
sux otheruser
pidgin
Bonus points for getting GConf to work with it.
std takes on another meaning in that context.
I find those comments funny. I took the risk of ditching our 2 windows machines and going back to a mac and installing linux on a laptop. To my surprise my wife just picked them both up with not a single bit of trouble. She figured that it couldn't be too hard and just started using it. Now she thinks Linux and OS X are better then XP or Vista. Well DAHHHH
Microslop strategic think tank is really onto something here. Imagine, if the average user can only open 2 applications at a time, what would those apps be? I would bet one would be....wait a minute....a web browser.
What a great idea, that will accelerate the uptake by the masses to web apps!
But OOOPSS, MS web apps suck compared to the competition........even basic search is broken....and by the way why do I need Winbloze to run just a browser and that other special application. What would that application be, here are some guesses:
1. Music player (oops forgot I can do that from a browser)
2. Instant messaging client (oops forgot I can do that from a browser)
3. Spreadsheet (oops Google apps)
4. Document (oops)
5. and on and on and on.
And what of all the wonderful development partners who are creating all sorts of apps for the Windoze platform? I'm sure non of them will opt to instantly make their applications browser based. Nope, they will keep hoping that they fill the new "sweet spot" as the second app running beside a browser!
I guess the guys in the Redmond Vole think tank are just running one massive "pump and dump" stock scam? Why else would you dig your own grave as a full scale strip mining operation?