"As two years have passed since the date of the report, with no WikiLeaks' source exposed, it appears that this plan was ineffective"
Or much more likely never implemented. There are hundreds of people paid to come up with ideas for fixing solutions in just about every govt org. By design these ideas are suppose to be a free thinking as possible while staying within the guidelines of the problem. In this case someone came up with an idea to deal with the leak problem by destroying the org that posted the leaks. This could have been a very potent fix, but also brought out the possibility of blow-back (public outcry, legal action, extra exposure of data, etc) as well as just pushing the problem off to another newer site that is even harder to deal with (Like shutting down Napster or Kazaa). It seems to me there is a good chance that they choose not to directly attack WikiLeaks and instead worked on keeping data from getting out to begin with (Can't get the data that's out back, so just keep them from getting more).
Is it just me or did everyone else miss the one where a guy introduced a fault into the Toyota system that caused sudden acceleration without producing an error code? I admit he had to introduce the fault artificially but if you can do that and have no fault come up on the computer how can you say that your system works 100% of the time?
That's so awesome in a "wow how many people are going to try and fail at this" kind of way...
Your cell phone or other electronic device can't replace your wallet or keys. You can't replace your keys until everything on your key chain has an electronic lock, including your shed out back, that lock box you keep, and the old truck you keep around for getting mulch. You can't replace your wallet until it can replace your Drivers Licence (Required by law in all 50 states to operate a car), you mil ID, that emergency credit card, you work ID and the emergency key for you car.
They want me to pay big money to get a device that is compatible with a system they developed, then replace my car, all my house locks, get everyone I have a key for (Half my family) locks changed, entrust my credit card to yet another 3rd party (that I am sure will charge a fee) and all it will do is mean I have a few less keys (Unless they are going to make a electronic pad lock for my shed and rental storage and my work desk) and a slightly thinner wallet.
This is all before looking at the device for security issues, what happens when the power is out, or the battery in the device is flat? What happens when someone steals it or it's broken? Can you just give someone an electronic copy in case you loose it? How do you keep them from just giving copies away, etc,etc.
This is what we call failure to think through the problem.
Doesn't make it OK to sabotage your workplace by encouraging open IT revolt. Honestly I don't know why so many MS haters feel like whatever they do there actions are appropriate as long as it's anti-MS. You fail to show us if you have any understanding at all of why MS is being used, or why you would think something else would be better overall. I know all the complaints about MS products, but honestly they are just a very few of the thousands of factors that need to be taken into account when buying software for a large business.
I am in no way saying here that there are not better products to do the jobs you do than the MS products you are using. However the only thing you really tell us here is that you hate MS and find it upsetting that your Bosses what you to do what they tell you. If you think there should be a change in policy and have some legitimate reasons why perhaps you should put them on paper and talk to your bosses. Don't be surprised when your bosses have legitimate reasons for wanting to stay with what they have. Planning IT for a large org is more complicated than you might think.
This newsweek bit really shows a lack of understanding of modern military equipment. UAV attacks against the US in a time of war might work once or twice, but never over the long term. Two reasons.
1) Any drone big enough to carry a weapon payload runs on something other than electric, which means heat, which means MANPADS, HMMWV Avenger Anti-Air, Centurion C-RAM (Phalanx CIWS for land defense),Bradley M6 Linebacker,etc. This does not even cover the number of 'convential' guns that have anti-air ammo including the Tanks, Artillery, and Ship board guns. Plus larger SAM systems like the patriot, or SM-1,SM-2 or RIM-116. Then add to that every single.50 Cal M2 machine gun owned by the armed services.
2) Drones are Computers normally controlled by RF. The US ability to control the RF spectrum, Jam radars, radios, and fry electronics from range is bar none the best the world has to offer.
So you better make that first attack a good one, cause like flying passanger planes into buildings you really only get one shot at it.
Looks like someone couldn't see the forest for the trees. All these years of study before someone figured out that there was a releation to the intelegence/eduction/etc of parents. Ugg...
The problem with american military doctrine is that the American military does not read it's field manuals, and even when it does it doesn't follow them.
Funny cause I won a judgement against a company I worked for in Seattle a few years back after they fired me for refusing to allow them to use my SS# as a way to verify that I was trained. I was smart enough to talk to a lawyer (Not just some guy without a law degree who wrote some FAQ on some random site) before I refused just to check on my legal standing. You are mistaking the fact that giving the infomation is voluntary, with the idea that you could then volunteer not to employee them for it. It turns out it is illigal to refuse services because someone refuses to give their SS#. I know that no federal, state or local govt. can do this to you, but you seem to think that you can do it if you feel like if for your own company. I am telling you that you are wrong, personally I don't care what happens to you (especially given your totally nasty attitude when posting here) but your wrong and asking for trouble if you try and push it with the wrong person.
Sorry man, you are completely wrong here. SS law is specific in the fact that no one is allowed to use your SS# for anything other than as an ID number to the SS admin. As a result when you ask for the SS number for your W4 form you are within your legal rights. (In fact you are required by law to see proof of such when the form is filled out) If you ask for it or use it for any other reason you are running the risk of being called to task for it. I have found that it is almost impossible to get any agency to go after someone for this crime unless the SS# was used to cause harm(ID theft for example). However if you refuse employment or a bank refuses an account they are running the risk of finding themselves sued over it. (Note that in some case banks have a right to the number because they need to report information to the SS admin)
So please for the love of.... Oh never mind just ready the last line of your post.
You can just as easily pay someone to certify that the closed source software does what you want. I have a lab just for that here at work. Nothing gets rolled out until it is completely and totally tested. You really need to stop looking at this as some way to get rid of companies that you don't like and think about it logicly.
How about this. Ford publishes the blueprints for all it's cars and truck every year, most major automakers do. (You can pick them up at most auto parts stores) These cars are very much less complicated than say SQL, Linux or Office, so it should be easier to figure out if there is a problem. However I am going to bet that A) you don't get the manual and check over everything about your car and you don't pay anyone to do it either and B) you would expect to be able to sue if the car has some horriable problem that is dangerous. With your logic because they publish the blueprints you should not be able to, which is well just silly.
WOW. I am going to guess that you write open source code. Me, I don't, I'm not a coder and don't want to go through code line by line to find out if there are problems. If you right code and say it will do something it should not be the responcibility of the end users to figure out if you are full of it or not. I don't see how an open source coder should be any less responciable for what he does than anyone else.
But really lets get down the the nuts and bolts of your problem. You don't like MS and perhaps a few other big software companies and nothing would make you happier than a totally one sided law that put them out of business because of mistakes in their code, while you get to walk away scott free after writen crap code that plenty of companies sell all over the place.
I don't agree. Where you injured by the product? Yes, they you should have the write to sue. But what we are talking about here is a class action sue against a company for a small part of a product that did not work for everyone. They released a fix that cost less than $10 for the few people that needed it at all.
To me this is like suggesting that we should have a call action suit against saturn because in their 2000/2001 L serise cars the power window switch failed on a number of cars. Did this cause anyone injury? No, so you souldn't be able to just sue over it.
This suit was over something that effected almost no one, injured no one. Hell it's not even like the box said 'now with disk compression' on it or anything, Was only sold for 6 months, and didn't cause injury.
The system you want makes you and everyone responciable for any action you take, anything you manufature. Suites of this sort are fight up with the people sueing burger king for not protecting them from the drunk driver or the criminal that sues for falling down the stairs in the house he broke into.
First what happened to buyer beware? Next for the most part the product we are talking about worked. It worked on my machine and I never had a problem with it. DOS 6.0, 6.02 and beyond all worked great. I know some machines had problems and that sucks but other than compression it worked fine on those machines as well.
It seems that when it comes to companies like MS everyone expects it to work every time all the time, even when there is no single product on the market that meets this standard. Then when it doesn't they expect to be able to sue to make themselves rich off of it. It's this sort of litigious ideology that allows lawsuits like 'Burger Kings walls did not stop the high speed car that the drunk drive drove into the restaurant and I got hurt so Burger King is liable'. And it's that and class action suits like the one against MS that is sending more and more businesses out of the country and driving up liability insurance costs (Which you end up paying as the end user).
If you want to effect results without kicking yourself in the teeth try voting with your money and remember buyer beware. Check everything before you put your money down. (I know I do)
So try and remember that each time you cheer because some guy has just one a billion dollars because his tie-tac didn't work right, that he got that money from your pocket as a paying customer and something dependent on the US economy.
I agree and beyond. MS is really not any harder to secure than a linux box. I give this impression from being a long time user of both, however somehow when the MS server is not secure it's MS fault and when the linux or Unix server is not secure it's the users fault.
What happened to the buyer beware rule of consumerism.
Why is it that everyone thinks they are due some kind of money any time something doesn't work exactly right. There are a billion products on the planet and it just seems silly that every company should be responcable for every possiable use. I know how most of the people on hear hate business, especially is they have the lead in some market or another but it's business that allows you to do the things you do and live the life you lead. They are not the root of all evil.
utopia is not the right word at all and the book doesn't even really seem to say that. It's more likley that we will be left out to rot like some old car or computer as the machines we have created have taken over the world and found our abilities wanting. Just look at the CPU power we will have in 30 years and the advances in brain mappin and AI and you will see what I am talking about. Utopia my friends is something we will not see.
Thank you. This is exactly why I don't understand the use on IBM Notes. (Which we switched to from exchange last year). Now we only get 1 meg attachments (Compared to some size beyond what I would send when we used Exchange) Databases have there place and in mail. I am sure you could do all this with file system stuff as well but why would you given that you would need to put together a DB to keep track of what is where and who would need to get to it in the file system.
I am not sure how people get such a huge difference in the cost of each of the OS solutions. Our Unix admins here don't manage any more servers than our Intel (read:Windows) admins. I know that the intel admin on the web team run about 150 servers each. And I am pretty sure that they don't eat any more or less power or heat. The cost of the servers are the same until you put the OS on them and then we are only talking like a 1/2% of the total cost.
Each of these guys has a place in the world and it just seems like FUD from both sides that they keep telling how much money a company will save on there OS. It's crap and as much as we like to blame MS for starting the FUD, it was linux users like us that started with the 'why pay so much for MS when you can have our stuff for free' bit.
I have to say that I played White Wolf games for years and years. Was in the Camamrilla for almost 10 years (Yes big time DORK). Having said that, White Wolf lost me when they reset the system changed some of the rules and names, all the mechanics (Not for the better as far as I can tell) and told us to play that. The new Vampire and Werewolf are just ok games now, but what they did to Mage is just horriable. I've gone back to just playing CP2020.
This really does not work out well. The idea behind doing any kind of research is to eliminate all the variables except the one that you are testing. That way you are not trying to compare apples to Oranges. Unfortunately these 'study' failed to take into account the system for returning results, the system for indexing the pages, and the system for applying weight to something.
Google (My favorite search page) tends to return results because something that links to that page or is linked from that page matches your search. Yahoo however does not seem to do that even 1/10th as often. This could account for lots and lots more results.
In fact I am sure that I could build a seach engine that could index less than a million pages and turn out more results than Google every time if I make my search engine open enough in the way it returns results.
Personally I am more upset about this than the stuff that is obviously opinion. When it's opinion only fools (And there are plenty of them on this site) mistake it for science and fact, but this is like watching a Michael Moore movie.
Linux is great don't get me wrong but MS has the UI, Drivers and software down. And weather OSS likes it or not they are improving on every other front as well. Remember when everyone bitched day in and day out about how unstable windows was? Not so much anymore.
You can still have P2P software. You can still have your replayTV, or VCR. All of these things are more can still be sold if two conditions are met. 1) The product has a legal use. 2) the product is not promoted for being used illigally (Even if it ends up being).
Grocksters problem is going to be that they said 'hey come and steal songs here' which I always thought was completely stupid.
First, I was really poking fun at all the people that keep talking about how only the poor are recuited when I fact most of the military is middle class not the poor.
Second, I came from a middle class family yet I went to collage without the military and without my parents paying for it. There are lots and lots of options for getting into collage that don't require them military. Loans, grants,gifts, etc and the lower your income the easier it is for you to get them. Now obviously you would have to have done at least OK in school to get these but you can't blame the military for not doing well in school.
I understand the angst that people have over this. But if people are going to complain about something they need to first look at all the facts which the vast majority of those posting on this topic have failed to do.
I currently know 6 different people in the military, all of them could have afforded collage on there own (2 of them did, then joined). When talking to them about complaints I here on places like/. There responce is that these people don't understand what it is to give something of yourself for all that has been given to them.
I am very happy to hear that the school districts that you have worked in as far as you can obvserve as a single staff member in those districts seems to not treat military recurters like pure evil itself but it's not indicitive of the country as a whole.
Look harder into how this piece of legislation came about. I can sit here and tell you about hundreds of reports of recuiters being baned from schools, teachers telling kids to stay away from them, faculty of preaching anti-military 'leason plans', teachers taking away recuriting forms and swag from students, Recruiters being called names and harrassed by faculty and even going so far as trying to sue them to keep them off campus but you are not going to believe me. However I do ask you to do the research yourself.
This problem is huge and has gotten worst and worst in the last 15 years or so. Do I think that civilian leadership needs to be improved in poor communities? Sure but most of the problems occure in middle to upper class districts. (Remember most of the country is middle class)
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"As two years have passed since the date of the report, with no WikiLeaks' source exposed, it appears that this plan was ineffective" Or much more likely never implemented. There are hundreds of people paid to come up with ideas for fixing solutions in just about every govt org. By design these ideas are suppose to be a free thinking as possible while staying within the guidelines of the problem. In this case someone came up with an idea to deal with the leak problem by destroying the org that posted the leaks. This could have been a very potent fix, but also brought out the possibility of blow-back (public outcry, legal action, extra exposure of data, etc) as well as just pushing the problem off to another newer site that is even harder to deal with (Like shutting down Napster or Kazaa). It seems to me there is a good chance that they choose not to directly attack WikiLeaks and instead worked on keeping data from getting out to begin with (Can't get the data that's out back, so just keep them from getting more).
Is it just me or did everyone else miss the one where a guy introduced a fault into the Toyota system that caused sudden acceleration without producing an error code? I admit he had to introduce the fault artificially but if you can do that and have no fault come up on the computer how can you say that your system works 100% of the time?
That's so awesome in a "wow how many people are going to try and fail at this" kind of way... Your cell phone or other electronic device can't replace your wallet or keys. You can't replace your keys until everything on your key chain has an electronic lock, including your shed out back, that lock box you keep, and the old truck you keep around for getting mulch. You can't replace your wallet until it can replace your Drivers Licence (Required by law in all 50 states to operate a car), you mil ID, that emergency credit card, you work ID and the emergency key for you car. They want me to pay big money to get a device that is compatible with a system they developed, then replace my car, all my house locks, get everyone I have a key for (Half my family) locks changed, entrust my credit card to yet another 3rd party (that I am sure will charge a fee) and all it will do is mean I have a few less keys (Unless they are going to make a electronic pad lock for my shed and rental storage and my work desk) and a slightly thinner wallet. This is all before looking at the device for security issues, what happens when the power is out, or the battery in the device is flat? What happens when someone steals it or it's broken? Can you just give someone an electronic copy in case you loose it? How do you keep them from just giving copies away, etc,etc. This is what we call failure to think through the problem.
Doesn't make it OK to sabotage your workplace by encouraging open IT revolt. Honestly I don't know why so many MS haters feel like whatever they do there actions are appropriate as long as it's anti-MS. You fail to show us if you have any understanding at all of why MS is being used, or why you would think something else would be better overall. I know all the complaints about MS products, but honestly they are just a very few of the thousands of factors that need to be taken into account when buying software for a large business. I am in no way saying here that there are not better products to do the jobs you do than the MS products you are using. However the only thing you really tell us here is that you hate MS and find it upsetting that your Bosses what you to do what they tell you. If you think there should be a change in policy and have some legitimate reasons why perhaps you should put them on paper and talk to your bosses. Don't be surprised when your bosses have legitimate reasons for wanting to stay with what they have. Planning IT for a large org is more complicated than you might think.
This newsweek bit really shows a lack of understanding of modern military equipment. UAV attacks against the US in a time of war might work once or twice, but never over the long term. Two reasons. 1) Any drone big enough to carry a weapon payload runs on something other than electric, which means heat, which means MANPADS, HMMWV Avenger Anti-Air, Centurion C-RAM (Phalanx CIWS for land defense),Bradley M6 Linebacker,etc. This does not even cover the number of 'convential' guns that have anti-air ammo including the Tanks, Artillery, and Ship board guns. Plus larger SAM systems like the patriot, or SM-1,SM-2 or RIM-116. Then add to that every single .50 Cal M2 machine gun owned by the armed services.
2) Drones are Computers normally controlled by RF. The US ability to control the RF spectrum, Jam radars, radios, and fry electronics from range is bar none the best the world has to offer.
So you better make that first attack a good one, cause like flying passanger planes into buildings you really only get one shot at it.
Looks like someone couldn't see the forest for the trees. All these years of study before someone figured out that there was a releation to the intelegence/eduction/etc of parents. Ugg...
The problem with american military doctrine is that the American military does not read it's field manuals, and even when it does it doesn't follow them.
Funny cause I won a judgement against a company I worked for in Seattle a few years back after they fired me for refusing to allow them to use my SS# as a way to verify that I was trained. I was smart enough to talk to a lawyer (Not just some guy without a law degree who wrote some FAQ on some random site) before I refused just to check on my legal standing. You are mistaking the fact that giving the infomation is voluntary, with the idea that you could then volunteer not to employee them for it. It turns out it is illigal to refuse services because someone refuses to give their SS#. I know that no federal, state or local govt. can do this to you, but you seem to think that you can do it if you feel like if for your own company. I am telling you that you are wrong, personally I don't care what happens to you (especially given your totally nasty attitude when posting here) but your wrong and asking for trouble if you try and push it with the wrong person.
Sorry man, you are completely wrong here. SS law is specific in the fact that no one is allowed to use your SS# for anything other than as an ID number to the SS admin. As a result when you ask for the SS number for your W4 form you are within your legal rights. (In fact you are required by law to see proof of such when the form is filled out) If you ask for it or use it for any other reason you are running the risk of being called to task for it. I have found that it is almost impossible to get any agency to go after someone for this crime unless the SS# was used to cause harm(ID theft for example). However if you refuse employment or a bank refuses an account they are running the risk of finding themselves sued over it. (Note that in some case banks have a right to the number because they need to report information to the SS admin) So please for the love of.... Oh never mind just ready the last line of your post.
You can just as easily pay someone to certify that the closed source software does what you want. I have a lab just for that here at work. Nothing gets rolled out until it is completely and totally tested. You really need to stop looking at this as some way to get rid of companies that you don't like and think about it logicly. How about this. Ford publishes the blueprints for all it's cars and truck every year, most major automakers do. (You can pick them up at most auto parts stores) These cars are very much less complicated than say SQL, Linux or Office, so it should be easier to figure out if there is a problem. However I am going to bet that A) you don't get the manual and check over everything about your car and you don't pay anyone to do it either and B) you would expect to be able to sue if the car has some horriable problem that is dangerous. With your logic because they publish the blueprints you should not be able to, which is well just silly.
WOW. I am going to guess that you write open source code. Me, I don't, I'm not a coder and don't want to go through code line by line to find out if there are problems. If you right code and say it will do something it should not be the responcibility of the end users to figure out if you are full of it or not. I don't see how an open source coder should be any less responciable for what he does than anyone else. But really lets get down the the nuts and bolts of your problem. You don't like MS and perhaps a few other big software companies and nothing would make you happier than a totally one sided law that put them out of business because of mistakes in their code, while you get to walk away scott free after writen crap code that plenty of companies sell all over the place.
I don't agree. Where you injured by the product? Yes, they you should have the write to sue. But what we are talking about here is a class action sue against a company for a small part of a product that did not work for everyone. They released a fix that cost less than $10 for the few people that needed it at all. To me this is like suggesting that we should have a call action suit against saturn because in their 2000/2001 L serise cars the power window switch failed on a number of cars. Did this cause anyone injury? No, so you souldn't be able to just sue over it. This suit was over something that effected almost no one, injured no one. Hell it's not even like the box said 'now with disk compression' on it or anything, Was only sold for 6 months, and didn't cause injury. The system you want makes you and everyone responciable for any action you take, anything you manufature. Suites of this sort are fight up with the people sueing burger king for not protecting them from the drunk driver or the criminal that sues for falling down the stairs in the house he broke into.
First what happened to buyer beware? Next for the most part the product we are talking about worked. It worked on my machine and I never had a problem with it. DOS 6.0, 6.02 and beyond all worked great. I know some machines had problems and that sucks but other than compression it worked fine on those machines as well. It seems that when it comes to companies like MS everyone expects it to work every time all the time, even when there is no single product on the market that meets this standard. Then when it doesn't they expect to be able to sue to make themselves rich off of it. It's this sort of litigious ideology that allows lawsuits like 'Burger Kings walls did not stop the high speed car that the drunk drive drove into the restaurant and I got hurt so Burger King is liable'. And it's that and class action suits like the one against MS that is sending more and more businesses out of the country and driving up liability insurance costs (Which you end up paying as the end user). If you want to effect results without kicking yourself in the teeth try voting with your money and remember buyer beware. Check everything before you put your money down. (I know I do) So try and remember that each time you cheer because some guy has just one a billion dollars because his tie-tac didn't work right, that he got that money from your pocket as a paying customer and something dependent on the US economy.
I agree and beyond. MS is really not any harder to secure than a linux box. I give this impression from being a long time user of both, however somehow when the MS server is not secure it's MS fault and when the linux or Unix server is not secure it's the users fault. What happened to the buyer beware rule of consumerism.
Why is it that everyone thinks they are due some kind of money any time something doesn't work exactly right. There are a billion products on the planet and it just seems silly that every company should be responcable for every possiable use. I know how most of the people on hear hate business, especially is they have the lead in some market or another but it's business that allows you to do the things you do and live the life you lead. They are not the root of all evil.
utopia is not the right word at all and the book doesn't even really seem to say that. It's more likley that we will be left out to rot like some old car or computer as the machines we have created have taken over the world and found our abilities wanting. Just look at the CPU power we will have in 30 years and the advances in brain mappin and AI and you will see what I am talking about. Utopia my friends is something we will not see.
Thank you. This is exactly why I don't understand the use on IBM Notes. (Which we switched to from exchange last year). Now we only get 1 meg attachments (Compared to some size beyond what I would send when we used Exchange) Databases have there place and in mail. I am sure you could do all this with file system stuff as well but why would you given that you would need to put together a DB to keep track of what is where and who would need to get to it in the file system.
I am not sure how people get such a huge difference in the cost of each of the OS solutions. Our Unix admins here don't manage any more servers than our Intel (read:Windows) admins. I know that the intel admin on the web team run about 150 servers each. And I am pretty sure that they don't eat any more or less power or heat. The cost of the servers are the same until you put the OS on them and then we are only talking like a 1/2% of the total cost. Each of these guys has a place in the world and it just seems like FUD from both sides that they keep telling how much money a company will save on there OS. It's crap and as much as we like to blame MS for starting the FUD, it was linux users like us that started with the 'why pay so much for MS when you can have our stuff for free' bit.
I have to say that I played White Wolf games for years and years. Was in the Camamrilla for almost 10 years (Yes big time DORK). Having said that, White Wolf lost me when they reset the system changed some of the rules and names, all the mechanics (Not for the better as far as I can tell) and told us to play that. The new Vampire and Werewolf are just ok games now, but what they did to Mage is just horriable. I've gone back to just playing CP2020.
This really does not work out well. The idea behind doing any kind of research is to eliminate all the variables except the one that you are testing. That way you are not trying to compare apples to Oranges. Unfortunately these 'study' failed to take into account the system for returning results, the system for indexing the pages, and the system for applying weight to something. Google (My favorite search page) tends to return results because something that links to that page or is linked from that page matches your search. Yahoo however does not seem to do that even 1/10th as often. This could account for lots and lots more results. In fact I am sure that I could build a seach engine that could index less than a million pages and turn out more results than Google every time if I make my search engine open enough in the way it returns results. Personally I am more upset about this than the stuff that is obviously opinion. When it's opinion only fools (And there are plenty of them on this site) mistake it for science and fact, but this is like watching a Michael Moore movie.
Doesn't this just mean that I have every computer virus and worm out there? Or at least think I do?
Linux is great don't get me wrong but MS has the UI, Drivers and software down. And weather OSS likes it or not they are improving on every other front as well. Remember when everyone bitched day in and day out about how unstable windows was? Not so much anymore.
You can still have P2P software. You can still have your replayTV, or VCR. All of these things are more can still be sold if two conditions are met. 1) The product has a legal use. 2) the product is not promoted for being used illigally (Even if it ends up being). Grocksters problem is going to be that they said 'hey come and steal songs here' which I always thought was completely stupid.
I think you missed my point.
/. There responce is that these people don't understand what it is to give something of yourself for all that has been given to them.
First, I was really poking fun at all the people that keep talking about how only the poor are recuited when I fact most of the military is middle class not the poor.
Second, I came from a middle class family yet I went to collage without the military and without my parents paying for it. There are lots and lots of options for getting into collage that don't require them military. Loans, grants,gifts, etc and the lower your income the easier it is for you to get them. Now obviously you would have to have done at least OK in school to get these but you can't blame the military for not doing well in school.
I understand the angst that people have over this. But if people are going to complain about something they need to first look at all the facts which the vast majority of those posting on this topic have failed to do.
I currently know 6 different people in the military, all of them could have afforded collage on there own (2 of them did, then joined). When talking to them about complaints I here on places like
I am very happy to hear that the school districts that you have worked in as far as you can obvserve as a single staff member in those districts seems to not treat military recurters like pure evil itself but it's not indicitive of the country as a whole. Look harder into how this piece of legislation came about. I can sit here and tell you about hundreds of reports of recuiters being baned from schools, teachers telling kids to stay away from them, faculty of preaching anti-military 'leason plans', teachers taking away recuriting forms and swag from students, Recruiters being called names and harrassed by faculty and even going so far as trying to sue them to keep them off campus but you are not going to believe me. However I do ask you to do the research yourself. This problem is huge and has gotten worst and worst in the last 15 years or so. Do I think that civilian leadership needs to be improved in poor communities? Sure but most of the problems occure in middle to upper class districts. (Remember most of the country is middle class)