You're saying it's not for playing video poker now? You've fell into my trap my dear friend. I'm looking forward to the GPS add on. Hell, I already own both talkman titles. =)
Actually, they contracted out to someone that ports games to Linux. Read http://icculus.org/news/news.php?id=3188 for more information. You should really be thankful for people like Ryan. =)
I'll clue you in that gamesindustry.biz is one of the best sites for the gaming industry even if it's European. It's got a lot of annoying ads and such, but I've never seen shoddy journalism there. I work in the industry and read it every day. In fact I sometimes hear things about my friends companies there before I have a chance to hear directly from the friend. They do a pretty good job of brining balance to the little articles they write up, and they often have interesting topical submissions.
I'll just reply to one of your points. The whole 'PS3 is broken' article was caused because people don't understand modern graphics systems. If you honestly believe this is some conspiracy you have a lot of problems. If you can't post with your real name in fear of looking like a fool that's a good indicator of your position. Anonymous posts are for sourcing, and seperating your opinon from an affliated group/company.
As for copying from GPU memory to main memory: I'll quote myself from an ealier post about reporters not understanding the issue...
"If you want to read back data from the GPU when you just wrote it from either an SPU or main memory you shouldn't be working in 3d development. To try and speak to their level it would be like typing in and publishing a web page line by line ( to read back what you entered ) until you uploaded the whole thing.
You don't need to read back anything from the GPU. ( The RSX is the GPU, and the local memory here is mainly for textures you've upload and flush fairly often. )"
I'll also add if you want to 'read' from this memory you could just have the RSX 'write' it to main memory. Now you see this is a moot point anyway. I'll also note there is a reason we have shaders for post effects instead of doing everything like it's ye old direct framebuffer. =)
As for triangle counts:
The PS2 beat the Xbox, so you see what that means in terms of graphics quality. If you make something as artifical as triangle count an issue you might as well consider the color of the box part of performance. Rendering out junk triangles 'counts' in this 'test'. Unified shaders dumping a ton of vertices doesn't mean the game will be able to render more polygons in a game scene.
I guess you haven't seen the new God of War, Ookami, and the other PS2 titles at E3. I don't think any other system on the market has better games in the pipe. I've played BF, Lost Planet, etc on 360, and they were pretty boring. Lost Planet looks pretty good, however the whole concept didn't appeal to me. The Xbox 360 doesn't seem to be doing that well in any territory actually. You should really look at the numbers, and it's not just a production problem. In fact Ars recently had an article that dicussed this.
I think people have a blindspot for the Wii. At best they can resell you ROMs you likely already have sitting on your computer. The worst outcome would be that's the only thing their network supports. Remember this isn't HD, so web browsing will be very painful for example. I wonder if anyone over 21 actually wants the wand controller. You really need to recalibrate the 'play' in the controller to your TV size, etc. Still all that repetitive motion isn't like DDR -- people can dance longer than they can wiggle a remote constantly.
As for Zonk. He has a responsibility to inform the public that news he has given you isn't true. The 'PS3 is broken' article is a good example of this. Zonk tries to play it off like this is 1996 instead of 2006. You have to at least pretend to be a responsible journalist, or YOU become a tabloid rag yourself. You can't honestly tell me you can trust anything he posts. If you can't take his posts at face value, then you have to consider all the people that do take it at face value.
What is Zonk going to do when PS3 is released and is a sucess? I think the real story is why everyone out to point to anything they can find to "prove" the PS3 is a failure. I hear a lot of things that aren't true repeated over and over. It's people like Zonk that enable various rumors that have been proven untrue to persist. What does Zonk get out of it? Is it some kind of false nationalism? The PS3 is a Japanese console. The PS2 continues to be a sucess, and outsells all other consoles each month even in the US. After Zonk started trolling blogs, and reporting them as facts recently I have a very poor opinion of him. He can't even bother to post an update or retraction. How about some facts?
Personally, I can't wait for PS3. I like to import games and movies from Japan, and with a PS3 I don't have to modchip anything. I can play all the games and movies, and not worry about if they'll play or not. Also I don't have to pay a monthy fee for matching, etc -- just like my PC. How many people pay Xbox Live fees just for matching and other services besides marketplace? You never hear anyone saying Xbox Live is outrageously expensive. Do the math. The PS3 is cheaper than an Xbox 360 with an HD-DVD addon (using the estimated pricing from Microsoft) and Live. It's not the price then... Zonk why do you hate PS3? You'll do anything for page hits, or do you have another agenda?
You are aware what you're asking for makes no difference if you pull right from the framebuffer or render back to main memory? Your question seems to be backwards thinking. You setup the scene correctly instead of render out a framebuffer then pull that out and modify it over and over. RTT and shaders were made to avoid this in the first place. You ideally only want to make a few 'passes' per frame.
Render to Texture is very nice -- maybe you've heard of it. =)
If you really want to you can read it from MAIN MEMORY very fast in the PS3's case.
RSX - write -> Main memory ( very fast )
not
Main memory - read - RSX ( very slow )
You see why no one really cares about this now? You can in effect 'read' from the GPU to main memory just fine without having to cock up the VRAM to do it.
Zonk, how about printing updates / retractions when they're warned like this. Show some responsibility. How can anyone take you seriously at this point? If I wrote a blog entry saying your a page count whore, or you're "secretly" working on astroturfed Microsoft ads -- that would make front page too right? I mean you don't vet anything you post that's fine. At least update the story, so people know you fucked up. Personal opinions aside, I don't think you're very professional.
"That guy" is often refered to as "the father of the playstation". The 'problem' from this article is you can't read back something you just wrote to the GPU as fast as you wrote it... in other words it's more because it's an Nvidia GPU just like on a PC. You should compare the read back speed from SLI 7900s -- guess what? It might be even slower. Noone does this in practice for this reason -- aside from the fact it's scanning a term paper you wrote to have a digital copy. Look at it that way, and you'll understand.
If you want to read back data from the GPU when you just wrote it from either an SPU or main memory you shouldn't be working in 3d development. To try and speak to their level it would be like typing in and publishing a web page line by line ( to read back what you entered ) until you uploaded the whole thing.
You don't need to read back anything from the GPU. ( The RSX is the GPU, and the local memory here is mainly for textures you've upload and flush fairly often. )
Personally, I don't think anything less than HD resolution for a TV is horrible for webbrowsing. I've used hand helds, dreamcasts, etc. The only console so far worth web browsing on was a PS2 with netfront. Want to know why?
1. No one designs their site for NTSC. 2. The PS2 browsing was SVGA resolution ( at least the way I was running it over a monitor ) 3. You need a real keyboard and mouse at some point.
I'm hoping my playstation 3 will have branded kb+mice at some point, since I like such things to match. At least the other consoles can display the resolutions needed for me to read the websites. It's ok for nintendo since I doubt anyone will do more than browse demos anyway. Also I need a PSP kb, since I still haven't found a better way to use google maps in a handheld. If DS isn't ass for it I'll buy a DS lite for portable web browsing. =)
Honesty, if I just got the PPC time + 2 SPUs + RSX + direct HDD access I could straight port a ton of old PC games like the quakes, and even more applications. In fact if this much access was there we could have an entire distrobution on there. Trust me hobbist and developers alike are keen to see the final 'hobby kit' spec.
I'm already planning some hobbist games for PS3. I would also like to add DVR like the PSX console in Japan had too, but we'll see how usermode usb is supported. Trust me if we get usermode usb then the PS3 + Linux is more than just a PC media center + console. At that point, you have a brand new development platform that's entirely outside the PC market that has a large enough market share to actually support developers.
Even the mighty waterfall starts its life as a single drop of water
If he chooses to use Ubuntu, and then later gets just one other to use it and continue the movement... soon everyone has a lot more choice of water. Sure it's true Microsoft has the industry in a death grip. It won't always be that way. Given time over the years all empires fall. Just do your own part, and choose your own path.
Are you kidding? All this talk about card games and "we don't even have a design for admin privleges, but it'll 'just work' when we ship" is laughable. They need something a little more compelling to bother to read these articles ( duped or not ). I'm sure a lot of people will get vista reguardless of any factors due to the OEM preinstalls, but why does anyone care about new card games/eye candy/etc?
Someone make a real article comparing vista to xp or vista to ubuntu.
There is no NTSC / Pal problem with 'HD' output, so the old excuse for region codes are gone. This just means better selection for people like me that speak more than one language.
From wikipedia:
Region code Area 1 The Americas, U.S. territories, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan 2 Europe and Africa 3 Asia (excluding Japan, South Korea and Taiwan) and Oceania
I have to agree. I was at E3 and I enjoyed seeing what other companies were doing on all the other consoles. I really enjoyed the PS3 demos, since you could play even the more experimental titles -- no movies -- no insane backrooms. Sony is going to have the most open console for hobby developers again this generation. I'm a professional developer, but I got my current job partially from skills I got working on my PS2 hobby kit. I don't see Nintendo and Microsoft doing this without fees on top of hardware costs. I don't know why 'news for nerds' would spew hate about such a device. I don't hate the companies selling games that compete with ours -- hell I went out and bought the ones that are already out. The same people that make PS3, 360, and even some Wii titles under the same roof don't go around astroturfing about how evil company XYZ is this hour of the day with a new slashdot post.
I can't believe all this hate for Microsoft / Sony / person of the week here.
There is no discussion here anymore just a hate circle jerk. It was funny when only 10% of the posts were trolls, and now 50% of the posted front page content is trolling.
I've been here a long time, and all these Sony bashing stories on the front page over and over are the worst I've seen. I'm beginning to wonder if they're sponsored. Slashdot has always been about low quality, but now I wonder about the integreity of the site. They've started posting nothing but hearsay of hearsay from blogs these last few days.
Why not just add a 360 advertisement and write a fake PS3 review tomarrow? Don't laugh when it happens. I don't care if it's the 360 or the PS3 -- all this does is pull everyone down posting garbage like this day after day. At least post a real hate story next time if that's all slashdot can do to get hits these days.
is slashdot and the Sony haters. I never even seen so many hate articles for Microsoft. Now we have articles that are worse than hearsay -- this is slander. I don't care how much you hate Sony, but be at least responsible about what you post here. How many Sony hate fests have we had here now in a week?
Slashdot Mirror
You're saying it's not for playing video poker now? You've fell into my trap my dear friend. I'm looking forward to the GPS add on. Hell, I already own both talkman titles. =)
Actually, they contracted out to someone that ports games to Linux. Read http://icculus.org/news/news.php?id=3188 for more information. You should really be thankful for people like Ryan. =)
I'll clue you in that gamesindustry.biz is one of the best sites for the gaming industry even if it's European. It's got a lot of annoying ads and such, but I've never seen shoddy journalism there. I work in the industry and read it every day. In fact I sometimes hear things about my friends companies there before I have a chance to hear directly from the friend. They do a pretty good job of brining balance to the little articles they write up, and they often have interesting topical submissions.
I'll just reply to one of your points. The whole 'PS3 is broken' article was caused because people don't understand modern graphics systems. If you honestly believe this is some conspiracy you have a lot of problems. If you can't post with your real name in fear of looking like a fool that's a good indicator of your position. Anonymous posts are for sourcing, and seperating your opinon from an affliated group/company.
As for copying from GPU memory to main memory:
I'll quote myself from an ealier post about reporters not understanding the issue...
"If you want to read back data from the GPU when you just wrote it from either an SPU or main memory you shouldn't be working in 3d development. To try and speak to their level it would be like typing in and publishing a web page line by line ( to read back what you entered ) until you uploaded the whole thing.
You don't need to read back anything from the GPU. ( The RSX is the GPU, and the local memory here is mainly for textures you've upload and flush fairly often. )"
I'll also add if you want to 'read' from this memory you could just have the RSX 'write' it to main memory. Now you see this is a moot point anyway. I'll also note there is a reason we have shaders for post effects instead of doing everything like it's ye old direct framebuffer. =)
As for triangle counts:
The PS2 beat the Xbox, so you see what that means in terms of graphics quality. If you make something as artifical as triangle count an issue you might as well consider the color of the box part of performance. Rendering out junk triangles 'counts' in this 'test'. Unified shaders dumping a ton of vertices doesn't mean the game will be able to render more polygons in a game scene.
I guess you haven't seen the new God of War, Ookami, and the other PS2 titles at E3. I don't think any other system on the market has better games in the pipe. I've played BF, Lost Planet, etc on 360, and they were pretty boring. Lost Planet looks pretty good, however the whole concept didn't appeal to me. The Xbox 360 doesn't seem to be doing that well in any territory actually. You should really look at the numbers, and it's not just a production problem. In fact Ars recently had an article that dicussed this.
I think people have a blindspot for the Wii. At best they can resell you ROMs you likely already have sitting on your computer. The worst outcome would be that's the only thing their network supports. Remember this isn't HD, so web browsing will be very painful for example. I wonder if anyone over 21 actually wants the wand controller. You really need to recalibrate the 'play' in the controller to your TV size, etc. Still all that repetitive motion isn't like DDR -- people can dance longer than they can wiggle a remote constantly.
As for Zonk. He has a responsibility to inform the public that news he has given you isn't true. The 'PS3 is broken' article is a good example of this. Zonk tries to play it off like this is 1996 instead of 2006. You have to at least pretend to be a responsible journalist, or YOU become a tabloid rag yourself. You can't honestly tell me you can trust anything he posts. If you can't take his posts at face value, then you have to consider all the people that do take it at face value.
What is Zonk going to do when PS3 is released and is a sucess? I think the real story is why everyone out to point to anything they can find to "prove" the PS3 is a failure. I hear a lot of things that aren't true repeated over and over. It's people like Zonk that enable various rumors that have been proven untrue to persist. What does Zonk get out of it? Is it some kind of false nationalism? The PS3 is a Japanese console. The PS2 continues to be a sucess, and outsells all other consoles each month even in the US. After Zonk started trolling blogs, and reporting them as facts recently I have a very poor opinion of him. He can't even bother to post an update or retraction. How about some facts?
= 17618
c odes
= 17547
PS3 owners won't pay for online services, says Kutaragi
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid
Blu-ray regions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Region_
Top developers slam PS3 "broken" allegations
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid
Personally, I can't wait for PS3. I like to import games and movies from Japan, and with a PS3 I don't have to modchip anything. I can play all the games and movies, and not worry about if they'll play or not. Also I don't have to pay a monthy fee for matching, etc -- just like my PC. How many people pay Xbox Live fees just for matching and other services besides marketplace? You never hear anyone saying Xbox Live is outrageously expensive. Do the math. The PS3 is cheaper than an Xbox 360 with an HD-DVD addon (using the estimated pricing from Microsoft) and Live. It's not the price then... Zonk why do you hate PS3? You'll do anything for page hits, or do you have another agenda?
You are aware what you're asking for makes no difference if you pull right from the framebuffer or render back to main memory? Your question seems to be backwards thinking. You setup the scene correctly instead of render out a framebuffer then pull that out and modify it over and over. RTT and shaders were made to avoid this in the first place. You ideally only want to make a few 'passes' per frame.
If you're really intersted in graphics:
http://www.opengl.org/
Render to Texture is very nice -- maybe you've heard of it. =)
If you really want to you can read it from MAIN MEMORY very fast in the PS3's case.
RSX - write -> Main memory ( very fast )
not
Main memory - read - RSX ( very slow )
You see why no one really cares about this now? You can in effect 'read' from the GPU to main memory just fine without having to cock up the VRAM to do it.
Zonk, how about printing updates / retractions when they're warned like this. Show some responsibility. How can anyone take you seriously at this point? If I wrote a blog entry saying your a page count whore, or you're "secretly" working on astroturfed Microsoft ads -- that would make front page too right? I mean you don't vet anything you post that's fine. At least update the story, so people know you fucked up. Personal opinions aside, I don't think you're very professional.
No it'll be NTSC. NTSC is 640 x 480.
"That guy" is often refered to as "the father of the playstation". The 'problem' from this article is you can't read back something you just wrote to the GPU as fast as you wrote it... in other words it's more because it's an Nvidia GPU just like on a PC. You should compare the read back speed from SLI 7900s -- guess what? It might be even slower. Noone does this in practice for this reason -- aside from the fact it's scanning a term paper you wrote to have a digital copy. Look at it that way, and you'll understand.
If you want to read back data from the GPU when you just wrote it from either an SPU or main memory you shouldn't be working in 3d development. To try and speak to their level it would be like typing in and publishing a web page line by line ( to read back what you entered ) until you uploaded the whole thing.
You don't need to read back anything from the GPU. ( The RSX is the GPU, and the local memory here is mainly for textures you've upload and flush fairly often. )
I noticed this blurb on kotaku:
- details-on-wii-version-178216.php
Opera Drops Details On Wii Version
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/nintendo/opera-drops
Personally, I don't think anything less than HD resolution for a TV is horrible for webbrowsing. I've used hand helds, dreamcasts, etc. The only console so far worth web browsing on was a PS2 with netfront. Want to know why?
1. No one designs their site for NTSC.
2. The PS2 browsing was SVGA resolution ( at least the way I was running it over a monitor )
3. You need a real keyboard and mouse at some point.
I'm hoping my playstation 3 will have branded kb+mice at some point, since I like such things to match. At least the other consoles can display the resolutions needed for me to read the websites. It's ok for nintendo since I doubt anyone will do more than browse demos anyway. Also I need a PSP kb, since I still haven't found a better way to use google maps in a handheld. If DS isn't ass for it I'll buy a DS lite for portable web browsing. =)
Honesty, if I just got the PPC time + 2 SPUs + RSX + direct HDD access I could straight port a ton of old PC games like the quakes, and even more applications. In fact if this much access was there we could have an entire distrobution on there. Trust me hobbist and developers alike are keen to see the final 'hobby kit' spec.
I'm already planning some hobbist games for PS3. I would also like to add DVR like the PSX console in Japan had too, but we'll see how usermode usb is supported. Trust me if we get usermode usb then the PS3 + Linux is more than just a PC media center + console. At that point, you have a brand new development platform that's entirely outside the PC market that has a large enough market share to actually support developers.
Even the mighty waterfall
starts its life
as a single drop of water
If he chooses to use Ubuntu, and then later gets just one other to use it and continue the movement... soon everyone has a lot more choice of water. Sure it's true Microsoft has the industry in a death grip. It won't always be that way. Given time over the years all empires fall. Just do your own part, and choose your own path.
Are you kidding? All this talk about card games and "we don't even have a design for admin privleges, but it'll 'just work' when we ship" is laughable. They need something a little more compelling to bother to read these articles ( duped or not ). I'm sure a lot of people will get vista reguardless of any factors due to the OEM preinstalls, but why does anyone care about new card games/eye candy/etc?
Someone make a real article comparing vista to xp or vista to ubuntu.
There is no NTSC / Pal problem with 'HD' output, so the old excuse for region codes are gone. This just means better selection for people like me that speak more than one language.
c odes
From wikipedia:
Region code Area
1 The Americas, U.S. territories, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan
2 Europe and Africa
3 Asia (excluding Japan, South Korea and Taiwan) and Oceania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Region_
1. Bluray only has 3 region codes, and region 1 is US/Japan.
2. All games have no region lock. You can play US/Japanese games on either console.
Neverwinter Nights 2 is developed by Obsidian Entertainment. The web site is out of date in terms of screenshots, but here you go:
http://www.atari.com/nwn2/.
Also check out the Obsidian site:
http://www.obsidianent.com/
Neverwinter Nights 2 was playable in three different booths: Atari, Microsoft, and Nvidia. Had toolset demos too. ;)
Don't worry they have pod casts as well as blogs.
I have to agree. I was at E3 and I enjoyed seeing what other companies were doing on all the other consoles. I really enjoyed the PS3 demos, since you could play even the more experimental titles -- no movies -- no insane backrooms. Sony is going to have the most open console for hobby developers again this generation. I'm a professional developer, but I got my current job partially from skills I got working on my PS2 hobby kit. I don't see Nintendo and Microsoft doing this without fees on top of hardware costs. I don't know why 'news for nerds' would spew hate about such a device. I don't hate the companies selling games that compete with ours -- hell I went out and bought the ones that are already out. The same people that make PS3, 360, and even some Wii titles under the same roof don't go around astroturfing about how evil company XYZ is this hour of the day with a new slashdot post.
I can't believe all this hate for Microsoft / Sony / person of the week here.
There is no discussion here anymore just a hate circle jerk. It was funny when only 10% of the posts were trolls, and now 50% of the posted front page content is trolling.
I've been here a long time, and all these Sony bashing stories on the front page over and over are the worst I've seen. I'm beginning to wonder if they're sponsored. Slashdot has always been about low quality, but now I wonder about the integreity of the site. They've started posting nothing but hearsay of hearsay from blogs these last few days.
Why not just add a 360 advertisement and write a fake PS3 review tomarrow? Don't laugh when it happens. I don't care if it's the 360 or the PS3 -- all this does is pull everyone down posting garbage like this day after day. At least post a real hate story next time if that's all slashdot can do to get hits these days.
Just think of all the podcasts of slander too. ;)
is slashdot and the Sony haters. I never even seen so many hate articles for Microsoft. Now we have articles that are worse than hearsay -- this is slander. I don't care how much you hate Sony, but be at least responsible about what you post here. How many Sony hate fests have we had here now in a week?