You mentioned:(Sura 2:191-193) "...and fight them until persecution is no more..."
You ignored the sentence that comes just before that one:
Sura 2:190: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
Which gives it a whole new meaning along the lines of:
be peaceful, do not begin hostilities, but you have to defend yourself if needed... (may allah forgive me for rephrasing this differently in order to simplify it in english...)
Advice: go read the Quran yourself to have a first-hand account of what is written, and do not rely on second-hand quotations, especially in these times of cheap shots against muslims & islam
You mentioned:(Sura 2:191-193) "...and fight them until persecution is no more..."
You ignored the sentence that comes just before that one:
Sura 2:190: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
Which gives it a whole new meaning along the lines of:
be peaceful, do not begin hostilities, but you have to defend yourself if needed... (may allah forgive me for rephrasing this differently in order to simplify it in english...)
Advice: go read the Quran yourself to have a first-hand account of what is written, and do not rely on second-hand quotations, especially in these times of cheap shots against muslims & islam
Actually, the British and French did an excellent job stealing the materials from the pyramids to the museums in London (British Museum) and Paris (Louvre). Thanks for bringing that up.
You said: many of these Muslims were not in fact Arabs.
"Arab" was not perceived as an ethnic group at that time, but rather as someone who shares the Arabic culture for living in the Arab world, just like roman citizen were not white inhabitants of Italy, but rather citizens of an Empire (some Roman rulers were African), or like you would say "American" today which is obviously not an ethnic group.
But I agree that some of them, especially Muslims from Persia, or Samarkand would not fit today's definition of an Arab.
However, for most Westerners, the line between Muslims and Arab is, I would say, rather fuzzy...
I find it difficult to believe Arabs were just translators from greek, and ancient book keepers, which is the traditional view in the West, in general: reasons for this are numerous, and historically based on the antagony between both sides of the Mediterranean, Christians and Muslims.
You cannot rediscover Ancient Greece without reading the texts in arabic, precisely because many of the original greek texts were destroyed, and only arabic translations remained.
As to why the Arab world was more advanced than Europe in the Middle Ages: mmmhh, let's see: where should I start: maybe here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age and the arabic words: algorithm, alchemy etc...
Hell, even "Dune" made references to these names...
Many classics as you said were not available in the greek language, because they were already destroyed. The only versions we have today are in arabic: I wonder why...
Moreover, how can you imagine the Arabs just translating these works from greek/latin, with no contribution whatsoever? Unfortunately, this is what is believed: the Arabs were just translators of ancient texts, and of course, this is totally untrue.
As to the decline of the Byzantine Empire, this is true, but at the same time, there was a new power in the making, the Turks (not Arabs), but they controlled the Arab world as well (except Morocco), and that probably enhanced the communications between both sides of the Mediterranean (and knowledge transfer).
Renaissance did not happen in Sweden, but rather in Italy in the 15th century for one reason: it is closer to the Arab World, which was much more advanced than Europe (Middle Ages...).
I think we cannot exclude a genetic mix as well during that time, although today's History tends to occult such a thing (genetics will probably prove it)...
The same applies to Spain -- until the Moors, who left behind a lot of their genes despite being kicked out as overlords, the average Spaniard was light-coloured just like the rest of Europe. The dark Latino type is the product of Moorish crossbreeding.
So where did Moors the cross-breed with South-American "Latinos", then? I am not aware of any Moor invasion in South America...
This all goes back to the old enmity between Europeans and Africans, Spaniards and Moors (today's Moroccans), Christians and Muslims, with especially South-Europeans trying to relate to blue-eyed Northern Europeans, whereas genetics tend to show the incredible mix of genes around the Mediterranean.
This is really cultural and you can even see that in North Africa where some Muslims/Jews try even today to identify themselves with Europe/Spain and never to the Middle-East (the starting point of civilization as we know it with the Phenicians/Mesopotamians etc...)
Salaries in the Quebec are generally lower than elsewhere in Canada, and taxes are higher. I know what I am talking about as I live in Montreal, and I wouldn't say that the grass is green around here. So, I would encourage anyone to check the facts, as salaries in the Quebec province in IT are in the following bracket: 40000 $ (CAD) to 75000 $ (CAD) with a 14% tax, and if you make 75000 $, you would end up with probably 55% of net income (55% * 75000$) which is not much. Salaries outside this bracket in IT are exceptional. (people who say otherwise are just doing PR for Quebec...)
Exactly, the original name in italian is "Il nome della rosa" and the english translation of the book was "The Name of the Rose". (see http://www.dsc.unibo.it/dipartimento/people/eco/cu rriculum.html for Eco's resume).
1980 Il nome della rosa. Milano: Bompiani (Commented edition, ed. by Costantino Marmo. Milano:
Edizioni Scolastiche Fabbri, 1990).
Translations:
Le nom de la rose. Paris: Grasset, 1982.
Der Name der Rose. Munchen: Hanser, 1982.
El nombre de la rosa. Barcelona: Lumen, 1982.
The Name of the Rose. New York: Harcourt, 1983, London: Secker & Warburg, 1983.
Rosens Namn. Stockholm: Brombergs, 1983.
Ruusun Nimi.Helsinki: Soderstrom, 1983.
De Naam van de Roos. Amsterdam: Bert Bakker, 1983.
As long as the door is open for the Western Europeans, it's ok. But when Indians (I mean well-educated Indians) start to benefit from the H1B visa, then it's not good anymore... I sense some form of racism in here...
A few basic principles of finance: -There is no such thing as a donation. -When money is loaned, it has to be paid back at some point. -A financial aid is just a loan. The basic idea is that a broke country would have trouble getting such money (impossible most of the time). That's where powerful come into the game. They get the loan (at a good interest rate because of their good credit), and transfer it to the broke country: this is called an aid. Therefore, it should be paid back.
Zeb.
Illegal strike and illegal war
on
Strike on Iraq
·
· Score: 1
This war is illegal since it was started without the support of the United Nations.
As far as I am concerned, the US are a hegemony that is trying to impose its will on the rest of the world.
What will you say when China will invade Taiwan (its renegade province) without consulting with the United Nations?
I think Bush and his team is really a bunch of morons.
Slashdot Mirror
Let me refute what you wrote:
You mentioned:(Sura 2:191-193) "...and fight them until persecution is no more..."
You ignored the sentence that comes just before that one:
Sura 2:190: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
Which gives it a whole new meaning along the lines of:
be peaceful, do not begin hostilities, but you have to defend yourself if needed... (may allah forgive me for rephrasing this differently in order to simplify it in english...)
Advice: go read the Quran yourself to have a first-hand account of what is written, and do not rely on second-hand quotations, especially in these times of cheap shots against muslims & islam
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html
Let me refute what you wrote:
You mentioned:(Sura 2:191-193) "...and fight them until persecution is no more..."
You ignored the sentence that comes just before that one:
Sura 2:190: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
Which gives it a whole new meaning along the lines of:
be peaceful, do not begin hostilities, but you have to defend yourself if needed... (may allah forgive me for rephrasing this differently in order to simplify it in english...)
Advice: go read the Quran yourself to have a first-hand account of what is written, and do not rely on second-hand quotations, especially in these times of cheap shots against muslims & islam
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html
first post!
Thanks for sharing your racist definitions of what civilization is.
Now, go read some books.
Z.
By praising ignorance, you only show who is the retard.
Go read some history books.
Z.
Actually, the British and French did an excellent job stealing the materials from the pyramids to the museums in London (British Museum) and Paris (Louvre).
Thanks for bringing that up.
Z.
You said: many of these Muslims were not in fact Arabs.
"Arab" was not perceived as an ethnic group at that time, but rather as someone who shares the Arabic culture for living in the Arab world, just like roman citizen were not white inhabitants of Italy, but rather citizens of an Empire (some Roman rulers were African), or like you would say "American" today which is obviously not an ethnic group.
But I agree that some of them, especially Muslims from Persia, or Samarkand would not fit today's definition of an Arab.
However, for most Westerners, the line between Muslims and Arab is, I would say, rather fuzzy...
Z.
I find it difficult to believe Arabs were just translators from greek, and ancient book keepers, which is the traditional view in the West, in general: reasons for this are numerous, and historically based on the antagony between both sides of the Mediterranean, Christians and Muslims.
Z.
trifish: However, the materials were never destoyed.
I hope you realize I can prove the opposite just by showing you a single counter-example, right?
Here it is:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apollonius-Translation-Original-Mathematics-Physical/dp/0387972161
'nuff said.
Z.
You cannot rediscover Ancient Greece without reading the texts in arabic, precisely because many of the original greek texts were destroyed, and only arabic translations remained.
As to why the Arab world was more advanced than Europe in the Middle Ages:
mmmhh, let's see: where should I start:
maybe here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
and the arabic words: algorithm, alchemy etc...
Hell, even "Dune" made references to these names...
Z
Many classics as you said were not available in the greek language, because they were already destroyed.
The only versions we have today are in arabic: I wonder why...
Moreover, how can you imagine the Arabs just translating these works from greek/latin, with no contribution whatsoever?
Unfortunately, this is what is believed: the Arabs were just translators of ancient texts, and of course, this is totally untrue.
As to the decline of the Byzantine Empire, this is true, but at the same time, there was a new power in the making, the Turks (not Arabs), but they controlled the Arab world as well (except Morocco), and that probably enhanced the communications between both sides of the Mediterranean (and knowledge transfer).
Z.
Renaissance did not happen in Sweden, but rather in Italy in the 15th century for one reason: it is closer to the Arab World, which was much more advanced than Europe (Middle Ages...).
I think we cannot exclude a genetic mix as well during that time, although today's History tends to occult such a thing (genetics will probably prove it)...
Z.
Very interesting theory:
The same applies to Spain -- until the Moors, who left behind a lot of their genes despite being kicked out as overlords, the average Spaniard was light-coloured just like the rest of Europe. The dark Latino type is the product of Moorish crossbreeding.
So where did Moors the cross-breed with South-American "Latinos", then?
I am not aware of any Moor invasion in South America...
This all goes back to the old enmity between Europeans and Africans, Spaniards and Moors (today's Moroccans), Christians and Muslims, with especially South-Europeans trying to relate to blue-eyed Northern Europeans, whereas genetics tend to show the incredible mix of genes around the Mediterranean.
This is really cultural and you can even see that in North Africa where some Muslims/Jews try even today to identify themselves with Europe/Spain and never to the Middle-East (the starting point of civilization as we know it with the Phenicians/Mesopotamians etc...)
Z.
Salaries in the Quebec are generally lower than elsewhere in Canada, and taxes are higher.
I know what I am talking about as I live in Montreal, and I wouldn't say that the grass is green around here.
So, I would encourage anyone to check the facts, as salaries in the Quebec province in IT are in the following bracket: 40000 $ (CAD) to 75000 $ (CAD) with a 14% tax, and if you make 75000 $, you would end up with probably 55% of net income (55% * 75000$) which is not much.
Salaries outside this bracket in IT are exceptional. (people who say otherwise are just doing PR for Quebec...)
AC
Why would they need to understand them when they b0mb them?
Morocco doesn't practice internet censorship. Period.
Zeb.
fp
Some unbiased pointers:
Research Guide to the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict
Israel Shamir
uncovering media myths about the middle east
Once and for all, it is:
Morocco in english
Marokko in german
Marruecos in spanish
Maroc in french
There is no such thing as Marocco.
Zeb.
Exactly, the original name in italian is "Il nome della rosa" and the english translation of the book was "The Name of the Rose". (see http://www.dsc.unibo.it/dipartimento/people/eco/cu rriculum.html for Eco's resume).
1980 Il nome della rosa. Milano: Bompiani (Commented edition, ed. by Costantino Marmo. Milano:
Edizioni Scolastiche Fabbri, 1990).
Translations:
Le nom de la rose. Paris: Grasset, 1982.
Der Name der Rose. Munchen: Hanser, 1982.
El nombre de la rosa. Barcelona: Lumen, 1982.
The Name of the Rose. New York: Harcourt, 1983, London: Secker & Warburg, 1983.
Rosens Namn. Stockholm: Brombergs, 1983.
Ruusun Nimi.Helsinki: Soderstrom, 1983.
De Naam van de Roos. Amsterdam: Bert Bakker, 1983.
As long as the door is open for the Western Europeans, it's ok.
But when Indians (I mean well-educated Indians) start to benefit from the H1B visa, then it's not good anymore...
I sense some form of racism in here...
Z
Welcome to globalization!
Globalisation means free travel of products not free travel of workers.
Free travel of people doesn't apply if the people are under-developed...
Z.
first post
A few basic principles of finance:
-There is no such thing as a donation.
-When money is loaned, it has to be paid back at some point.
-A financial aid is just a loan. The basic idea is that a broke country would have trouble getting such money (impossible most of the time). That's where powerful come into the game. They get the loan (at a good interest rate because of their good credit), and transfer it to the broke country: this is called an aid. Therefore, it should be paid back.
Zeb.
This war is illegal since it was started without the support of the United Nations.
As far as I am concerned, the US are a hegemony that is trying to impose its will on the rest of the world.
What will you say when China will invade Taiwan (its renegade province) without consulting with the United Nations?
I think Bush and his team is really a bunch of morons.
Z.