these are software problems. regardless of whether it is faulty firmware or faulty software from the developers. it is microsofts' duty to ensure that these sorts of things/problems never make it to retail. thats why they have a testing and certification program in place in the first place. instead MS is pushing a release and patch program.
when the majority of your consumers never connect to xbox live in the first place... and the rest of the other half dont have harddrives... patching should never be an option.
it wasnt the best, and the graphics were kinda muddy, but vandal hearts for ps1 was amazing IMHO. there was something special about some of the level design that i havent seen since. i probably sucked now going back, but it was the first time i saw a multistory deathtrap level lowering characters to their doom in a pit of lava. quite impressive scene. it would be interesting if the metal gear acid series too a cue from VH.
the first final fantasy tactics is still king in my book though. would love to see fft done in current ff graphics. with real scaling and rotation for the maps.
i think the point was that each game has something special that you should check out. not all of these games are excellent or system sellers or anything crazy like that, but they all have some aspect that another developer or someone in the industry looked at for inspiration at some point, or felt like upped the current ante for console games.
case in point, no final fantasy x was not the best in the series, but it definitely upped the ante in terms of what to expect from a console. if im not mistaken, it was the first rpg to feature almost complete voice acting. it marked a change in the genre. it showed "what could be done". as for ffxi, its on the list to show that consoles and pcs do not need to be considered separate. it was one the first game, and definitely the first mmo game to allow pc players and console players to interact. showing that the lines drawn in the sand separating each platform are only imaginary or company imposed.
each console has its movers and shakers. if you dont own all of the consoles, you are less likely to follow the community response for other consoles, but you cant deny the numbers.
the anticipation for metal gear solid was just as huge at release time as it was for OoT. [sales where almost equal as well] thanks in part to the amazing [at the time] demo disc that came with official playstation magazine or maybe it was Gamepro.
the point wasnt to hype any sony machines. it was to give a summation of what titles are worth buying for ps1 and ps2, since in a few months when the ps3 is released everything will become bargain bin. sure you can get some of the titles on other consoles, but not everyone owns a gamecube and or xbox as well.
the list is a fan service to ps2 [and psp] owners. if you are neither please move on, theres nothing to see here.
to my knowledge, the game wasnt completed either. at least the copy i "came across" wasnt. it was slightly buggy, and had no character endings. there needed to be some more work done for sure, but i can see where they were trying to go. for the time [mid 1998-1999] it wasnt a bad idea... just needed polishing. [and maybe better characters, lol.]
i knew i was playing an unreleased and 75% unfinished game, so i didnt have any high level expectations or anything.
10-star reviews are few and far in-between for any console. the only games that get credit nowadays actually deserve it on some level. [god of war? shadow of the colossus? etc] even those games didnt get "perfect" marks across the board.
the ps2 isnt the only console that ships derivative generic titles either. how many of the xbox's must have titles are FPS's? and ported from games originally intended for pc in the first place? how many of the gamecube's titles include some form of NES-era character tie-in? i think the whole industry is full of cut and paste development at times, including but not exclusive to sony.
so... uhm... whats the big deal then. thats precisely the point. just because the MSRP for one or two blu-ray players are outrageously high does not equate to the technology costing an arm and a leg across the board.
there are still tons of dvd players that cost well above what the ps2 costs. there isnt really a direct correlation.
yeah, the d-pad and to a lesser extent, the analog nub are crucial for decent gaming.
please correct me if i am mistaken, but currently there is no handheld on the market that has the ability to push 3d graphics, playback widescreen video, and has a wide variety of games and developers onboard to create top notch games on the level of the psp.
the ds has the "innovation" of a touch screen for games, and thats opening up a whole new path. [the one nintendo is taking as they laugh their way to the bank] however... warts and all, no one can honestly say that sony hasnt created the most superior handheld console ever. now the battle is between the developers who will win the handheld console war. unfortunately, its a war that most PDAs cant even compete in.
just because the blu ray standalone players are retailing in the $1000s doesnt mean much. DVD players retailed for around $700+ when the ps2 launched at less than half that price.
being the major backer of the technology, they can offer it at cost. they do not have to pay extra royalties for including it in the console. they can also request the blu-ray tech consortium to offer them a discount in order to push what could be one of the major weapons to get a large blu-ray user adoption.
honestly, sony got forced to show its hand in regards to the homebrew scene. it was no real big deal until iso's and the eventual iso - loaders started hitting the scene. as a company, they have no choice but to protect their bottom line. they have to answer to shareholders, and publishers who wont be as enthusiastic about developing for a system that caters to piracy. so to protect everyones interests, they have to at least "appear" to be taking a hardline on piracy. i say "appear" because its curious how long it takes to crack or circumvent a set of firmware is directly relative to when a AAA title appears and requires a certain set of firmware.
homebrew continues on, and sony knows and hasnt truly crippled it. if they were REALLY hardline, they would require the latest firmware on EVERYthing. from setting up an infrastructure game, to downloading content. its inline with their stance on the ps linux kits... allow homebrew at the expense of the ability to play commercial games.
actually, you have a point. you cant beat the gameboy family when it comes to games, since they boast a semibackwards compatible library of what? something like 10 gazillion games? going the media route has picked up tons of media-philes and people interested in the additional aspects of the psp. they have a decent strategy in hand, however... they STILL need to get cracking with the actual games. since xmas ive seen 20x more psps than usual. this is over the dc/md/va/bal/nyc areas on the east coast. to be honest, ive seen a handful of DS's too, but i happen to see more psps, and they are usually carried by people you normally wouldnt expect to have a portable game system.
offtopic, but still... DUDE, where my other analog pad?!?!?!? if im supposed to be stuck only using one, at least remind designers that 3d games existed on ps1 before there were analog pads.
also, he failed to acknowledge the popularity of free MMO games or even free casual web games if we want to REALLY nit-pick. they may not charge direct fees, but they are growing in numbers by leaps and bounds in terms of numbers of players online and revenue.
the industry has several different models that work well for different types of products. each console doesnt target the exact same markets. the xbox targets the hardcore and pc crossover market. they are generally the market that appreciates things like everyone having mics, etc... nintendo consoles are generally marketed to more casual and younger markets. if you rarely play games and for not long marathons in the first place, would you/really/ be inclined to pay for a service you dont use, no matter how cheap the fee is? some people just want to play. they dont want any company double-dipping in their pockets. i appreciate sony and nintendo for taking that type of initiative on their handhelds at least. as time progresses, im sure that even they will raise their free online quality to xbox-live levels. the ps3 and revolution are still largely wildcards, so who knows?... they might be released with services that surpass live quality; being that neither company likes being "one-upped" by the competition. [excuse the pun]
the playstation division is one of the few areas of the sony company thats turning a profit. to them the playstations are proven winners, thats why now they are able to push a lil harder in the research and development of their consoles [PSP, and PS3] than their competitors. whereas, before they relied on heavier marketing than thier competition. the funny thing is the fact that they are using the playstation brand to prop up their other divisions. ps3 selling blu-ray... psp selling umd sony movies... the ps3s 1080p is going to sell plenty of HDTVs for them.
i guess hes a little mixed up in regards to the well known fact that nintendo consoles are rarely sold at a loss. just because its consoles are sold at a loss doesnt equate to the division losing money. sony makes most of its profit through licensing and software sales.
they may take a slight hit on every console sold, but overall they make a profit during the course of each of those consoles' lifecycles. as a company sony is losing money, but not the playstation brand itself overall.
while not the most scientific poll. i have ten or so friends that have their PS2s vertical just like mine... never had the problem. sorry. keep mine vertical on hardwood floors. bumps, vibrations et. al... never a scratched disc. ESP not like the ones ive seen for the x360.
so perhaps theyve ironed out whatever kink may have done this in earlier versions of the console. if its already been ironed out, one would think MS could do the same for the x360. it almost sounds as bad as the whole square button on the PSP debacle [which theyve fixed as well] the point is if you complain loud enough, companies WILL listen. the squeaky wheel does get the grease eventually.... sometimes...
MS themselves have stated that the problems are only present in 3% of the consoles, and of those something like 1% have been returned. thats/if/ you want to trust MS numbers. [i dont...] that doesnt mean anything in itself. what that means is that buyers are sucking it up with dealing with the crashes, because kids dont want to go over two weeks without their new console or shiny new christmas present.
i agree that this watercooling deal is overkill, but you cant downplay the fact that MS dropped the ball on properly cooling their unit and power supply.
maybe im mistaken, but isnt the xbox ALREADY supposed to be water cooled? apparently the MS solution doesnt work well enough.
can anyone verify whether or not the builtin system is still supposed to be watercooled? i guess adding a/real/ watercooling system should make it run smoother, but still... given that most of the problems are supposedly due to the power supplies, and the x360 is already huge as is... isnt this overkill? not to mention takes away from the ventilation space that the x360 and its power supply need?
yes, but this isnt pure business here, its business and marketing. microsoft will do whatever it takes to try to gain a foothold into your entertainment center. the more buzz created by "the scene" in trying to tackle enabling homebrew/ piracy just adds to the x360 hype machine. they get more consoles into the public and get more licensing fees out of developers who cant afford to chance developing software for any console except the ones with the largest install base.
Slashdot Mirror
"There haven't been any Microsoft software glitches."
t opic_id=24198870
are you serious? well apparently you havent heard tales of PGR crashing. CoD crashing... and this gem:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?
these are software problems. regardless of whether it is faulty firmware or faulty software from the developers. it is microsofts' duty to ensure that these sorts of things/problems never make it to retail. thats why they have a testing and certification program in place in the first place. instead MS is pushing a release and patch program.
when the majority of your consumers never connect to xbox live in the first place... and the rest of the other half dont have harddrives... patching should never be an option.
you actually "bought" a virtual boy...
wow... most people dont have the guts to admit it.
lol @ "Just something that doesn't make it look like my car (and all it's decals) are made of adamantium."
where are the mod points when you need em?
it wasnt the best, and the graphics were kinda muddy, but vandal hearts for ps1 was amazing IMHO. there was something special about some of the level design that i havent seen since. i probably sucked now going back, but it was the first time i saw a multistory deathtrap level lowering characters to their doom in a pit of lava. quite impressive scene. it would be interesting if the metal gear acid series too a cue from VH.
the first final fantasy tactics is still king in my book though. would love to see fft done in current ff graphics. with real scaling and rotation for the maps.
i second.
i think the point was that each game has something special that you should check out. not all of these games are excellent or system sellers or anything crazy like that, but they all have some aspect that another developer or someone in the industry looked at for inspiration at some point, or felt like upped the current ante for console games.
case in point, no final fantasy x was not the best in the series, but it definitely upped the ante in terms of what to expect from a console. if im not mistaken, it was the first rpg to feature almost complete voice acting. it marked a change in the genre. it showed "what could be done". as for ffxi, its on the list to show that consoles and pcs do not need to be considered separate. it was one the first game, and definitely the first mmo game to allow pc players and console players to interact. showing that the lines drawn in the sand separating each platform are only imaginary or company imposed.
...and grand theft auto san andreas [just the ps2 version mind you] outsold halo2 by a decently large margin and with half the hype. both were released around the same time period. by this point, people just knew they were going to buy the game. NEHN -> no extra hype needed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best_selling_ computer_and_video_games#Sony_PlayStation_2
each console has its movers and shakers. if you dont own all of the consoles, you are less likely to follow the community response for other consoles, but you cant deny the numbers.
the anticipation for metal gear solid was just as huge at release time as it was for OoT. [sales where almost equal as well] thanks in part to the amazing [at the time] demo disc that came with official playstation magazine or maybe it was Gamepro.
the point wasnt to hype any sony machines. it was to give a summation of what titles are worth buying for ps1 and ps2, since in a few months when the ps3 is released everything will become bargain bin. sure you can get some of the titles on other consoles, but not everyone owns a gamecube and or xbox as well.
the list is a fan service to ps2 [and psp] owners. if you are neither please move on, theres nothing to see here.
surprised no ones mentioned einhander for psx. love to see a ps2/3 sequel... its a great game.
also try out r-type delta for psx.
to my knowledge, the game wasnt completed either. at least the copy i "came across" wasnt. it was slightly buggy, and had no character endings. there needed to be some more work done for sure, but i can see where they were trying to go. for the time [mid 1998-1999] it wasnt a bad idea... just needed polishing. [and maybe better characters, lol.]
i knew i was playing an unreleased and 75% unfinished game, so i didnt have any high level expectations or anything.
10-star reviews are few and far in-between for any console. the only games that get credit nowadays actually deserve it on some level. [god of war? shadow of the colossus? etc] even those games didnt get "perfect" marks across the board.
the ps2 isnt the only console that ships derivative generic titles either. how many of the xbox's must have titles are FPS's? and ported from games originally intended for pc in the first place? how many of the gamecube's titles include some form of NES-era character tie-in? i think the whole industry is full of cut and paste development at times, including but not exclusive to sony.
so... uhm... whats the big deal then. thats precisely the point. just because the MSRP for one or two blu-ray players are outrageously high does not equate to the technology costing an arm and a leg across the board.
there are still tons of dvd players that cost well above what the ps2 costs. there isnt really a direct correlation.
yeah, the d-pad and to a lesser extent, the analog nub are crucial for decent gaming.
please correct me if i am mistaken, but currently there is no handheld on the market that has the ability to push 3d graphics, playback widescreen video, and has a wide variety of games and developers onboard to create top notch games on the level of the psp.
the ds has the "innovation" of a touch screen for games, and thats opening up a whole new path. [the one nintendo is taking as they laugh their way to the bank] however... warts and all, no one can honestly say that sony hasnt created the most superior handheld console ever. now the battle is between the developers who will win the handheld console war. unfortunately, its a war that most PDAs cant even compete in.
just because the blu ray standalone players are retailing in the $1000s doesnt mean much. DVD players retailed for around $700+ when the ps2 launched at less than half that price.
being the major backer of the technology, they can offer it at cost. they do not have to pay extra royalties for including it in the console. they can also request the blu-ray tech consortium to offer them a discount in order to push what could be one of the major weapons to get a large blu-ray user adoption.
honestly, sony got forced to show its hand in regards to the homebrew scene. it was no real big deal until iso's and the eventual iso - loaders started hitting the scene. as a company, they have no choice but to protect their bottom line. they have to answer to shareholders, and publishers who wont be as enthusiastic about developing for a system that caters to piracy. so to protect everyones interests, they have to at least "appear" to be taking a hardline on piracy. i say "appear" because its curious how long it takes to crack or circumvent a set of firmware is directly relative to when a AAA title appears and requires a certain set of firmware.
homebrew continues on, and sony knows and hasnt truly crippled it. if they were REALLY hardline, they would require the latest firmware on EVERYthing. from setting up an infrastructure game, to downloading content. its inline with their stance on the ps linux kits... allow homebrew at the expense of the ability to play commercial games.
actually, you have a point. you cant beat the gameboy family when it comes to games, since they boast a semibackwards compatible library of what? something like 10 gazillion games? going the media route has picked up tons of media-philes and people interested in the additional aspects of the psp. they have a decent strategy in hand, however... they STILL need to get cracking with the actual games. since xmas ive seen 20x more psps than usual. this is over the dc/md/va/bal/nyc areas on the east coast. to be honest, ive seen a handful of DS's too, but i happen to see more psps, and they are usually carried by people you normally wouldnt expect to have a portable game system.
offtopic, but still... DUDE, where my other analog pad?!?!?!? if im supposed to be stuck only using one, at least remind designers that 3d games existed on ps1 before there were analog pads.
google "psp" and "homebrew". cant really get that as easily on any other handheld.
also, he failed to acknowledge the popularity of free MMO games or even free casual web games if we want to REALLY nit-pick. they may not charge direct fees, but they are growing in numbers by leaps and bounds in terms of numbers of players online and revenue.
/really/ be inclined to pay for a service you dont use, no matter how cheap the fee is? some people just want to play. they dont want any company double-dipping in their pockets. i appreciate sony and nintendo for taking that type of initiative on their handhelds at least. as time progresses, im sure that even they will raise their free online quality to xbox-live levels. the ps3 and revolution are still largely wildcards, so who knows? ... they might be released with services that surpass live quality; being that neither company likes being "one-upped" by the competition. [excuse the pun]
the industry has several different models that work well for different types of products. each console doesnt target the exact same markets. the xbox targets the hardcore and pc crossover market. they are generally the market that appreciates things like everyone having mics, etc... nintendo consoles are generally marketed to more casual and younger markets. if you rarely play games and for not long marathons in the first place, would you
the playstation division is one of the few areas of the sony company thats turning a profit. to them the playstations are proven winners, thats why now they are able to push a lil harder in the research and development of their consoles [PSP, and PS3] than their competitors. whereas, before they relied on heavier marketing than thier competition. the funny thing is the fact that they are using the playstation brand to prop up their other divisions. ps3 selling blu-ray... psp selling umd sony movies... the ps3s 1080p is going to sell plenty of HDTVs for them.
i guess hes a little mixed up in regards to the well known fact that nintendo consoles are rarely sold at a loss. just because its consoles are sold at a loss doesnt equate to the division losing money. sony makes most of its profit through licensing and software sales.
they may take a slight hit on every console sold, but overall they make a profit during the course of each of those consoles' lifecycles. as a company sony is losing money, but not the playstation brand itself overall.
while not the most scientific poll. i have ten or so friends that have their PS2s vertical just like mine... never had the problem. sorry. keep mine vertical on hardwood floors. bumps, vibrations et. al... never a scratched disc. ESP not like the ones ive seen for the x360.
so perhaps theyve ironed out whatever kink may have done this in earlier versions of the console. if its already been ironed out, one would think MS could do the same for the x360. it almost sounds as bad as the whole square button on the PSP debacle [which theyve fixed as well] the point is if you complain loud enough, companies WILL listen. the squeaky wheel does get the grease eventually.... sometimes...
i just clicked the link for shts and giggles, but DAYUM! he /is/ a busy slashdot tipster...
MS themselves have stated that the problems are only present in 3% of the consoles, and of those something like 1% have been returned. thats /if/ you want to trust MS numbers. [i dont...] that doesnt mean anything in itself. what that means is that buyers are sucking it up with dealing with the crashes, because kids dont want to go over two weeks without their new console or shiny new christmas present.
a ses-Xbox-360-Sales-Data/&docTitle=NPD%20Group%20Re leases%20Xbox%20360%20Sales%20Data%20-%20Xboxf ile=article&sid=233
theyve sold something around 300,000- 400,000 xboxes, that means ~12,000 [one in 33] are "defective" or crash-prone. keep in mind that these are only people that are actually taking the time to call in. thats a huge friggin amount of crashing considering this is the BEST case, most optimistic, MS pr dept's best case scenario. actual estimates are probably around 5-10%
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/9943/NPD-Group-Rele
http://www.openxbox360.com/modules.php?name=News&
i agree that this watercooling deal is overkill, but you cant downplay the fact that MS dropped the ball on properly cooling their unit and power supply.
and by the way... how the hell is adding another huge ass external fan supposed to make the system "quieter"?
maybe im mistaken, but isnt the xbox ALREADY supposed to be water cooled? apparently the MS solution doesnt work well enough.
/real/ watercooling system should make it run smoother, but still... given that most of the problems are supposedly due to the power supplies, and the x360 is already huge as is... isnt this overkill? not to mention takes away from the ventilation space that the x360 and its power supply need?
can anyone verify whether or not the builtin system is still supposed to be watercooled? i guess adding a
yes, but this isnt pure business here, its business and marketing. microsoft will do whatever it takes to try to gain a foothold into your entertainment center. the more buzz created by "the scene" in trying to tackle enabling homebrew/ piracy just adds to the x360 hype machine. they get more consoles into the public and get more licensing fees out of developers who cant afford to chance developing software for any console except the ones with the largest install base.