I have a topic to debate, Standards.
If Firefox does get "Standards" in place, what really makes them good at all? This point is not made out of ignorance, but true question.
Firefox proposes that everyone adhere to the Standards of the W3, but say Safari and IE decide, "Ok, let's do it." Then what really sets any of them apart (other than Safari being Mac only)?
Because if it just comes down to a secure and fast browser, MS has much more money and resources to make this come true than FF, I believe, let me know where I'm wrong.
And furthermore, not even FF adheres only to the standards, as outlined in the paragraph that speaks of the w3 (do a find for 'w3') ---> Standards?
My favorite quote on there is: "Keep in mind that this is not yet part of any W3C or other official standard. At this time it is necessary to bend the rules in order to have full keyboard accessibility."
But isn't this what MS did long ago to make the better browser experience over NS?
Anyway, I don't mean to trash on FF at all, but I just wonder, who really wants the Standards implemented (I actually do), and then what happens after that? How do we get better dev tools and code to use in our web-apps (the w3 doesn't seem on top of new tech)?
I also use eMusic and have had no problems. I don't understand why people are not doing research when they post articles like this. Is it just cool to hate whatever has some good sales? "I hate microsoft...even though they created the operating system I'm using" and the "I hate apple...because I have no reason and can't back it up". When will people learn?
If you have an iPod and you use iTunes and they have what you want, great, if not, search something else out. Plus, with most music stores, you can burn the songs to a cd and then rip it right back as an un-drm-ed mp3. I have not had any problems with any providers in that light, except for Napster, who tricks you into thinking you own the mp3 you download...but uh-oh, when you try to burn it to a cd, they charge you $.99 per song, crock!
So do you have anything to say other than STANDARDS? Standards of which they have not even implemented correctly? Do you have anything to say about the rest of my points? I didn't think so. Thanks though.
I find it very interesting that 9 times out of 10, if I ask someone why they use Firefox, the response is "Tabbed Browsing" or "It's not Microsoft."
As a developer, I have found Firefox to be almost unusable in many instances:
1) They implemented CSS, but none of the old CSS. This means when you change a cursor to a "hand", it won't recognize it.
2) It also leaves you unable to create custom variables in HTML tags. This leaves out ease of use in dynamic information systems.
3) You cannot call a style of an document object directly, you must first call the object, then on a seperate line, call that object's style you want. Just plain inefficient.
4) You cannot use span tags or div tags even remotely how you can in IE (and some cases even in Safari!).
5) They took out many Javascript functionalities because they simply couldn't implement them correctly. (.focus())!
In the end, it's frustrating that in Firefox you must deal with coding around what they left out, because it's more "secure", and as we now know, it's not even more secure! And thank you to Firefox for making me have to download a plug-in every time I want something to work like it should. It's just not what everyone seems to think it is. Is it just an excuse to name drop something new??
Apple won't just give in to this easily. At the same moment, Microsoft is sore that they haven't been able to break iTunes success, or get into the portable audio market as well as the iPod has. They've known about this patent issue for a while, I'm sure, they just had no drive to take this to the limit. Anyhow, I'm sure people can agree that this isn't a done and done deal. How many people think Apple would simply pay the fees? or that this has to do with the impending Apple x86 battle with windows?
For developers, I don't see a switch any day soon. Firefox screams about standards, yet they still have not implemented the cursor attribute in CSS (it's been there since version 2). They also can't handle.focus() or any arrow keys being used dynamically in pages. FireFailure for developers of dynamic content.
This is by far, the worst article that has ever made it to slashdot (with exception to the benchmark results). A box mod?? Are you kidding me? This no talent ass-clown made a box mod using all PC parts in a Mac case...good job buddy, you can use a screwdriver and stencils. Guess what? NO ONE CARES.
I don't mean to be flamebait, but come on, are you serious? Anyone think the headline was a tad bit MISLEADING?!@ Garbage. That's the only word for this guys' how-to.
The interesting thing is that supposedly Google is interested in the power of OpenOffice. This could maybe lead to online creation of office documents, emailing them through GMail, and storing them in Google webspace. It starts to kill the use of Windows apps.
Next, they'll come out with a GBrowser and add extra functionality for their new line of star studded packages in your Google account if you use their browser. Maybe that's why they've taken a bunch of Firefox developers...but who knows?
The problem here is that if they get this ball rolling, what's to stop it from becoming about any file in any format?? What about all my free uncopyrighted music, are they going to arrest me and then say, "Woops, sorry."???
"... A foot icon? What's that about, anyway? Ubuntu's logo isn't a foot."
It's the Gnome foot. He logged in using gnome. Does this mean if he had been using Kubuntu, he would have said, "What's with the K?"
He is obviously outside of his territory and discredits most of what he presents from his lack of common knowledge.
This is what Linux is all about, choosing what you want to use, gnome, kde, xfce, whatever. I think he missed this key point.
I'm surprised that he didn't outline anything about the actual Debian release system. You would think with all the hype about Ubuntu, he would've said something about the Sarge release (whether it's really going to be pushed or not). I'm still upset that in the end, I don't think Sarge will be the one to save us. Ubuntu will spread out and conquer. It seems. Anyone think different for Debian? Can we really take them seriously at this point with the lack of update pushes?
I'm confused, PearPC is already open source...
*scratches head*
Oh well, I guess they finally realized, if you can't beat them, join them.
This whole CherryOS thing has been completely stupid. Why do people think they can slap a different name on something and sell it, when it's already free?
No joke. If you don't have a gmail account, I can see the skepticism, but it really is true. Going up to 2GB and beyond! The rich text editing is done very well too.
I think this is ridiculous. I just can't see how they can try and use internet access as an excuse to make more money out of a court case.
If this were the case, Paris Hilton could sue for every province that her video was accessible from the internet. In fact, all celebrities could sue someone on these same grounds.br>
I'm amazed that neither San Francisco (who was also thinking of this idea) or Chicago are worried about people messing with these city wide wi-fi networks. Can anyone help give further insight into that problem?
I just think it would possibly be an issue when they have people connecting and then more "computer literate" people scanning the networks for files, boredom (malice), etc.
Glad to hear it! I had the same situation as you, I just didn't like Fedora, Mandrake, SUSE, or Debian, so I tried Ubuntu and man...it was awesome. I've been using it for about 6 months now. Only use windows for photoshop, itunes, and world of warcraft.:)
If you need any help (I was also new to linux), go hit me up at ubuntuforums.org My name is the same as on here. Welcome.
I'm really surprised that they are wasting the resources to do this. Most pirated windows xp copies have no activiation anyway. they have no key, and don't ask for one. I would say if they want to get to the source of the problem, they should re-evalutate their MSDN subscription copies and have them need to phone in a re-install. In the end though, I think everyone knows what this really is, a big waste of time. *handclap for microsoft*
As I've been reading this lengthy discussion, I've started wondering...old school developers that say this has been around forever...but where is their GMail? For a bunch of "noob" programmers, it seems a lot of them are seeing what can be done and taking advantage of it to do something new and inventive.
I also realize that some people are whining about it not being compatible with browsers that don't handle all the javascript tweaks and such, but I'm also wondering, why are you crying? No one told you to use a less than compatible "elite" browser.
I've seen the Gmail code and the Google Suggest code. It looks to me like people are finally coming around to taking advantage of what has always been right in front of us.
Not neccessarily, think of all the happy people paying for their new $300 PC that does all the email, internet, ripping, burning, office, etc. And don't bring up eMachines or some crappy equivelent, you know what I'm talking about.:)
Instead of the XBox and a PC in a home, I think they're on the way to the XBoxPC. It would make sense. The XBox plays games at a great speed with great graphics, so what's to stop MS from making their operating system run out of the XBox ONLY? They could drop licenses with other companies and force everyone to beg and pay more if they want a non-XBox version of Windows. Scary thought, but I think they might be taking a hint from apple and I think they're going to try this "digital lifestyle" thing with making proprietary hardware for Windows. Time to move to Linux I guess. *shrug*
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While a bit harsh, I'd have to agree...mp3s don't carry such information. Read a book is my advice.
"We will never reach a point with any browser where we have all the web standards implemented and there's nothing more to be done."
Which I think is sad, but also true. It would be a dev dream come true.
I have a topic to debate, Standards.
If Firefox does get "Standards" in place, what really makes them good at all? This point is not made out of ignorance, but true question.
Firefox proposes that everyone adhere to the Standards of the W3, but say Safari and IE decide, "Ok, let's do it." Then what really sets any of them apart (other than Safari being Mac only)?
Because if it just comes down to a secure and fast browser, MS has much more money and resources to make this come true than FF, I believe, let me know where I'm wrong.
And furthermore, not even FF adheres only to the standards, as outlined in the paragraph that speaks of the w3 (do a find for 'w3') ---> Standards?
My favorite quote on there is: "Keep in mind that this is not yet part of any W3C or other official standard. At this time it is necessary to bend the rules in order to have full keyboard accessibility."
But isn't this what MS did long ago to make the better browser experience over NS?
Anyway, I don't mean to trash on FF at all, but I just wonder, who really wants the Standards implemented (I actually do), and then what happens after that? How do we get better dev tools and code to use in our web-apps (the w3 doesn't seem on top of new tech)?
I also use eMusic and have had no problems. I don't understand why people are not doing research when they post articles like this. Is it just cool to hate whatever has some good sales? "I hate microsoft...even though they created the operating system I'm using" and the "I hate apple...because I have no reason and can't back it up". When will people learn?
If you have an iPod and you use iTunes and they have what you want, great, if not, search something else out. Plus, with most music stores, you can burn the songs to a cd and then rip it right back as an un-drm-ed mp3. I have not had any problems with any providers in that light, except for Napster, who tricks you into thinking you own the mp3 you download...but uh-oh, when you try to burn it to a cd, they charge you $.99 per song, crock!
So do you have anything to say other than STANDARDS? Standards of which they have not even implemented correctly? Do you have anything to say about the rest of my points? I didn't think so. Thanks though.
I find it very interesting that 9 times out of 10, if I ask someone why they use Firefox, the response is "Tabbed Browsing" or "It's not Microsoft."
As a developer, I have found Firefox to be almost unusable in many instances:
1) They implemented CSS, but none of the old CSS. This means when you change a cursor to a "hand", it won't recognize it.
2) It also leaves you unable to create custom variables in HTML tags. This leaves out ease of use in dynamic information systems.
3) You cannot call a style of an document object directly, you must first call the object, then on a seperate line, call that object's style you want. Just plain inefficient.
4) You cannot use span tags or div tags even remotely how you can in IE (and some cases even in Safari!).
5) They took out many Javascript functionalities because they simply couldn't implement them correctly. (.focus())!
In the end, it's frustrating that in Firefox you must deal with coding around what they left out, because it's more "secure", and as we now know, it's not even more secure! And thank you to Firefox for making me have to download a plug-in every time I want something to work like it should. It's just not what everyone seems to think it is. Is it just an excuse to name drop something new??
This was already announced on /. months ago!
Apple won't just give in to this easily. At the same moment, Microsoft is sore that they haven't been able to break iTunes success, or get into the portable audio market as well as the iPod has. They've known about this patent issue for a while, I'm sure, they just had no drive to take this to the limit. Anyhow, I'm sure people can agree that this isn't a done and done deal. How many people think Apple would simply pay the fees? or that this has to do with the impending Apple x86 battle with windows?
For developers, I don't see a switch any day soon. Firefox screams about standards, yet they still have not implemented the cursor attribute in CSS (it's been there since version 2). They also can't handle .focus() or any arrow keys being used dynamically in pages. FireFailure for developers of dynamic content.
This is by far, the worst article that has ever made it to slashdot (with exception to the benchmark results). A box mod?? Are you kidding me? This no talent ass-clown made a box mod using all PC parts in a Mac case...good job buddy, you can use a screwdriver and stencils. Guess what? NO ONE CARES. I don't mean to be flamebait, but come on, are you serious? Anyone think the headline was a tad bit MISLEADING?!@ Garbage. That's the only word for this guys' how-to.
The interesting thing is that supposedly Google is interested in the power of OpenOffice. This could maybe lead to online creation of office documents, emailing them through GMail, and storing them in Google webspace. It starts to kill the use of Windows apps.
Next, they'll come out with a GBrowser and add extra functionality for their new line of star studded packages in your Google account if you use their browser. Maybe that's why they've taken a bunch of Firefox developers...but who knows?
Did anyone see the Google archive?
http://www.google.com/holidaylogos99.html
The problem here is that if they get this ball rolling, what's to stop it from becoming about any file in any format?? What about all my free uncopyrighted music, are they going to arrest me and then say, "Woops, sorry."???
We need to stop this.
This is quite an unexpected surprise for Monday morning. Woo!!! Now all the best graphics apps will be under one name!
"... A foot icon? What's that about, anyway? Ubuntu's logo isn't a foot."
It's the Gnome foot. He logged in using gnome. Does this mean if he had been using Kubuntu, he would have said, "What's with the K?"
He is obviously outside of his territory and discredits most of what he presents from his lack of common knowledge.
This is what Linux is all about, choosing what you want to use, gnome, kde, xfce, whatever. I think he missed this key point.
I'm surprised that he didn't outline anything about the actual Debian release system. You would think with all the hype about Ubuntu, he would've said something about the Sarge release (whether it's really going to be pushed or not). I'm still upset that in the end, I don't think Sarge will be the one to save us. Ubuntu will spread out and conquer. It seems. Anyone think different for Debian? Can we really take them seriously at this point with the lack of update pushes?
I'm confused, PearPC is already open source...
*scratches head*
Oh well, I guess they finally realized, if you can't beat them, join them.
This whole CherryOS thing has been completely stupid. Why do people think they can slap a different name on something and sell it, when it's already free?
No joke. If you don't have a gmail account, I can see the skepticism, but it really is true. Going up to 2GB and beyond! The rich text editing is done very well too.
I think this is ridiculous. I just can't see how they can try and use internet access as an excuse to make more money out of a court case.
If this were the case, Paris Hilton could sue for every province that her video was accessible from the internet. In fact, all celebrities could sue someone on these same grounds.br>
I'm amazed that neither San Francisco (who was also thinking of this idea) or Chicago are worried about people messing with these city wide wi-fi networks. Can anyone help give further insight into that problem?
I just think it would possibly be an issue when they have people connecting and then more "computer literate" people scanning the networks for files, boredom (malice), etc.
Glad to hear it! I had the same situation as you, I just didn't like Fedora, Mandrake, SUSE, or Debian, so I tried Ubuntu and man...it was awesome. I've been using it for about 6 months now. Only use windows for photoshop, itunes, and world of warcraft. :)
If you need any help (I was also new to linux), go hit me up at ubuntuforums.org My name is the same as on here. Welcome.
I'm really surprised that they are wasting the resources to do this. Most pirated windows xp copies have no activiation anyway. they have no key, and don't ask for one. I would say if they want to get to the source of the problem, they should re-evalutate their MSDN subscription copies and have them need to phone in a re-install. In the end though, I think everyone knows what this really is, a big waste of time. *handclap for microsoft*
As I've been reading this lengthy discussion, I've started wondering...old school developers that say this has been around forever...but where is their GMail? For a bunch of "noob" programmers, it seems a lot of them are seeing what can be done and taking advantage of it to do something new and inventive. I also realize that some people are whining about it not being compatible with browsers that don't handle all the javascript tweaks and such, but I'm also wondering, why are you crying? No one told you to use a less than compatible "elite" browser. I've seen the Gmail code and the Google Suggest code. It looks to me like people are finally coming around to taking advantage of what has always been right in front of us.
Not neccessarily, think of all the happy people paying for their new $300 PC that does all the email, internet, ripping, burning, office, etc. And don't bring up eMachines or some crappy equivelent, you know what I'm talking about. :)
Instead of the XBox and a PC in a home, I think they're on the way to the XBoxPC. It would make sense. The XBox plays games at a great speed with great graphics, so what's to stop MS from making their operating system run out of the XBox ONLY? They could drop licenses with other companies and force everyone to beg and pay more if they want a non-XBox version of Windows. Scary thought, but I think they might be taking a hint from apple and I think they're going to try this "digital lifestyle" thing with making proprietary hardware for Windows. Time to move to Linux I guess. *shrug*