Actually, I have read a lot of the facts--and opinions on what TPM can/will do. Here's a couple of links, if you care to look further at both sides of the question: FAQ and Stallman's view at News Forge, and EFF and finally the Trusted home page here.
So I have informed myself a little. Actually, the most recent MS EULA I had to read sugests that MS and 3rd parties they trust have the right to add and delete programs and files to my computer. Presumably, only for my benefit. Uh huh. The TPM chip takes this to the hardware level and is the real foundation of "Trusted Computing" or as some see it, "Treacherous Computing." Believe what you want to believe.
Like AC pointed out--and BTW, thanks AC, for standing up for my post, I've never been rated a troll before (that I'm aware of) & I'm chalking it up as another experience--ultimately if the TC roadmap is followed, it may be impossible to connect to the internet without a fully TC-compliant box. It may be impossible to share files--and I'm not talking about trivial rubbish like music or video, but important files like text documents, spreadsheets and other data--unless they were produced by a TC box and are opened on a TC box. If that's OK by you, then so be it--for you.
I'm not interested. I have been off & on the net for ten years, in fact I only got a confuser at home 10yrs ago, which isn't much over >50yrs. I can live without the net or a computer at home. Why would I want to use a computer that considers ME the enemy? Why would I even have such a device in my house??! I don't fear it, because TC has nothing to offer me or theaten me with:
He is the master who has power over things which others wish to have or to avoid, the power to take these things away or bestow them: the power to inflict or to withhold. Whoever then wishes to be free, let him neither wish to have anything nor wish to avoid anything which depends on others. Who does not observe this rule, he must be a slave.--Epictetus
Thanks for the clue/confirmation. I'm typing this from a Knoppix DVD on new AMD64 box which came w/...Windows, what else?! I'd tried the Ubuntu64 Live CD and it worked after some finagling ("expert" install, which can't be that expert, if I managed it). Knowing it works on a laptop helps steel my nerves. Ubuntu64, here I come.
I wouldn't worry about that, were I you. The TPM chip will take care of all that. Whatever residual rights you/we have will be transferred to whomever has access to the TPM module... which will not include us. We'll be "safe in the loving hands" of Disney, MS, INTEL. SONY, IBM, AMD, our ISP's, whatever political party is in control,... etc.
Don't worry... Be Happy! And get ready to consume more than you ever dreamed of... whether you want to or not.
Seriously, although no fan of Windows, you should have the right to use it. I think it's a bad choice, but it should be your choice to make. Period.
Learn to write a EULA that is less overtly insulting. I just read one at home for the first time in just over 4 yrs. I was so hot after a short time that I had to walk away from it. Had I been sure that I had a Linux or BSD disk that would work, I'd have formatted the HD right there! As is, I was trying a Live Ubuntu for AMD64 CD within minutes. Just for chuckles this afternoon I dropped in the Knoppix CD that came with my Debian Bible this summer & it booted quicker than XP. OTOH it doesn't have all the pre-installed crapware.
Anybody know if I can use the system disk I had to burn to reformat the HD & install vanilla XP, i.e. XP w/out all the media crap? If not, then Windows weeks are numbered, maybe days, if it doesn't get less obnoxious.
I saw nothing in Hesse's comments that showed even the least shred of repentance. Not even "We are sorry." I just went back and re-read that article, if there was any regret expressed, I missed it. Show me I'm wrong, and I will change my opinion.
You seem to be judging SONY et al. by you perception of their good intentions. (The road to where is paved with good intentions?) We all want to be judged by our intentions. If there is anything cheaper than talk, it is "good intentions." Because intentions are unfathomable, we have to judge by actions. What have we seen here?
1) denial that a rootkit is something negative, 2) denial of phone-home behavior, 3) a complex, multi-step "removal procedure" that left users vulnerable,..., etc. Is it fixed yet? Any admission of wrongdoing? None that I have seen. SONY and many other corporate groups (by which I do not mean to imply only businesses, political parties and religions are also corporate groups) suffer from the delusion that they can do no wrong. Bullcrap. That is hubris. Hubris inevitably leads to disaster, sometimes sooner, sometimes later. It is/was the #1 subject of ancient Greek tragedy.
You may be right about one thing, "seems to be laughing at" may have been a poor choice of words..."seems to be sneering at" may be better.
The fact that they haven't says they approve of everthing that has been done. There is simply no other way to read the fact the he is still employed by SONY. SONY and Hesse seem to be laughing at everone whose computer was infected.
There's a long period around the reversal when the earth's magnetic field is dowm. No protection from cosmic rays & other miscellaneous high energy particals. Hundreds of years. One resource on the Brunhes-Matuyama reversal about 780K years ago is: here. Here's another more general one on reversals from NASA.
Florida panther? Google "Florida Panther" then click Images. I got 244,000 hits on the text and 2800 on the images. If so you saw a very rare beast. I've lived here about 15 years, spent a lot of time "in the woods" & never seen one.
I worked on one field project in the northeast about 17 years ago that had us diginng holes in a pipeline right-of-way. There was a fibre-optic cable in that right-of-way. According to the fibre-optic guy, it carried all the data between NYC and Philadelphia. Down time: $1 million per minute, and it could be cut with a shovel-much less a backhoe.
After reading your comment, the replies and your replies to them, I am struck by the defeatist attitude on the part of your critics, and indeed, the critics of all proposed ant-spam (etc.) remedies. They are defeated already because they have given up--the "form critique" I keep seeing on this forum is evidence of that. Right now I get little spam, some is flagged by my ISP, and most of the rest is caught by SpamAssasssin or Bogofilter, depending on what client I am using. We are not defeated until we give up. Thanks for the food for thought.
In addition to pjrc's notes, there's another reason the RIAA wouldn't sue 3M: it can & would defend itself heavily. If your scam is suing the defenceless to extort money from them, you don't sue an organization that can defend itself. See, for example, SCO vs. IBM. It would be amusing if the RIAA sued Microsoft for removing SONY's rootkit: "Godzilla versus Megalon, Redux." or would it be "Spy vs. Spy" In any case, it should keep both sides occupied 10-20 years.
Your comment reminded me of Will Rogers(?) saying: "We have the best Congress money can buy." and Mark Twain's "There is no native criminal class--except Congress."
A Business' sole goal is to maximize profit for its shareholders, and nothing else.
Morally depraved would be an apt description of that concept. I am part owner of my business (business started in 1977). We have a product, if no one wants our product... we are out of business. We go above and beyond the bare minimum, in order to provide a quality product, although, in the short term it would be more profitable to cheat and cut corners. However, we take a lot of pride in doing quality work.
Furthermore, if no one can trust us because all we care about is money and not a product that meets the needs of our customers... we are out of business. If "maximize profit" is all that's taught in business schools, one can only hope they are doomed.
I also have thousands invested in the stock market (in fields other than my own). But not a penny in the stock of companies that I find morally depraved. And yes, I have made money in the market, even during the dot.bomb/tech crash.
If "piracy" should be a criminal offence, then infecting hundreds of thousands of computers with rootkits/trojans should be worth a death sentence. SONY/BMG and 1st 4Internet CEOs report to the nearest wall & bring your own blindfold. Virus writers, ditto. How about life sentences for spammers and those who contract for their services? Too expensive, send them to the wall, too. Corporate assholes are quick to demand their customers be jailed, but how they lie and whine when they get caught.
It's the statutory penalty for the violations: $100K per infraction. The Texas AG was just on TV (CNBC) and suggested that the fines came out to hundreds of millions of dollars.
That seems to be how companies like Sony view them. Any rights customers may have are seen by SONY and their ilk (a cast too numerous to catalog) as detracting from their own. The only way SONY et al. can maximize rights (and, they hope, profit) is to minimize everyone else's, ultimately including the rights of other companies. Under that notion their rights are maximized when everyone else's rights = 0. That is a reasonable explanation of why they chose to crap on the rights of their paying customers. It's the same logic tyrannies have always used. Sic semper tyrannis
The the success of the GNU and other OSS liscence models suggest that SONY and their brothers in greed are wrong. Just my 2 cents.
As someone "working in IP and media law" pehaps GP-poster is unaware that the Nuremberg defence was decisively rejected--at Nuremberg. The total lack of any moral awareness implicit in the Nuremberg defence is disgusting, which is about what's to be expected of anyone practicing IP-law, one supposes.
That according to F-secure installing the Sony program on a machine running Windows Vista -- the beta version of Windows' next iteration -- "breaks the operating system spectacularly."
Woo-hoo, I can just see it now:
Ballmer: Sony's crap does WHAT!!!!!!?
[Picks up his desk and thows it across the room and through the wall.]
Ballmer: I'm gonna fucking kill SONY, those wimps! I've done it before and... etc.
IBM has subpoened KPMG, SCO's accounting firm, story at Groklaw. KPMG was SCO's accounting firm till recently and had "difficulty" signing off on some of SCO's stuff. This should be rich.
You are correct. It makes far more sense to outlaw the use of digital devices by Hollywood et al. than to turn millions of law-abiding people everywhere into criminals to satisfy the whims of the MPAA & RIAA set.
They will threaten to stop producing anything? Promises , promises...
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FAQ and Stallman's view at News Forge, and EFF and finally the Trusted home page here. So I have informed myself a little. Actually, the most recent MS EULA I had to read sugests that MS and 3rd parties they trust have the right to add and delete programs and files to my computer. Presumably, only for my benefit. Uh huh. The TPM chip takes this to the hardware level and is the real foundation of "Trusted Computing" or as some see it, "Treacherous Computing." Believe what you want to believe.
Like AC pointed out--and BTW, thanks AC, for standing up for my post, I've never been rated a troll before (that I'm aware of) & I'm chalking it up as another experience--ultimately if the TC roadmap is followed, it may be impossible to connect to the internet without a fully TC-compliant box. It may be impossible to share files--and I'm not talking about trivial rubbish like music or video, but important files like text documents, spreadsheets and other data--unless they were produced by a TC box and are opened on a TC box. If that's OK by you, then so be it--for you.
I'm not interested. I have been off & on the net for ten years, in fact I only got a confuser at home 10yrs ago, which isn't much over >50yrs. I can live without the net or a computer at home. Why would I want to use a computer that considers ME the enemy? Why would I even have such a device in my house??! I don't fear it, because TC has nothing to offer me or theaten me with: Your mileage may vary.
They wouldn't like that.
Thanks for the clue/confirmation. I'm typing this from a Knoppix DVD on new AMD64 box which came w/ ...Windows, what else?! I'd tried the Ubuntu64 Live CD and it worked after some finagling ("expert" install, which can't be that expert, if I managed it). Knowing it works on a laptop helps steel my nerves. Ubuntu64, here I come.
I wouldn't worry about that, were I you. The TPM chip will take care of all that. Whatever residual rights you/we have will be transferred to whomever has access to the TPM module ... which will not include us. We'll be "safe in the loving hands" of Disney, MS, INTEL. SONY, IBM, AMD, our ISP's, whatever political party is in control,... etc.
... Be Happy! And get ready to consume more than you ever dreamed of... whether you want to or not.
Don't worry
Seriously, although no fan of Windows, you should have the right to use it. I think it's a bad choice, but it should be your choice to make. Period.
Learn to write a EULA that is less overtly insulting. I just read one at home for the first time in just over 4 yrs. I was so hot after a short time that I had to walk away from it. Had I been sure that I had a Linux or BSD disk that would work, I'd have formatted the HD right there! As is, I was trying a Live Ubuntu for AMD64 CD within minutes. Just for chuckles this afternoon I dropped in the Knoppix CD that came with my Debian Bible this summer & it booted quicker than XP. OTOH it doesn't have all the pre-installed crapware.
Anybody know if I can use the system disk I had to burn to reformat the HD & install vanilla XP, i.e. XP w/out all the media crap? If not, then Windows weeks are numbered, maybe days, if it doesn't get less obnoxious.
I saw nothing in Hesse's comments that showed even the least shred of repentance. Not even "We are sorry." I just went back and re-read that article, if there was any regret expressed, I missed it. Show me I'm wrong, and I will change my opinion.
..., etc. Is it fixed yet? Any admission of wrongdoing? None that I have seen. SONY and many other corporate groups (by which I do not mean to imply only businesses, political parties and religions are also corporate groups) suffer from the delusion that they can do no wrong. Bullcrap. That is hubris. Hubris inevitably leads to disaster, sometimes sooner, sometimes later. It is/was the #1 subject of ancient Greek tragedy.
..."seems to be sneering at" may be better.
You seem to be judging SONY et al. by you perception of their good intentions. (The road to where is paved with good intentions?) We all want to be judged by our intentions. If there is anything cheaper than talk, it is "good intentions." Because intentions are unfathomable, we have to judge by actions. What have we seen here?
1) denial that a rootkit is something negative, 2) denial of phone-home behavior, 3) a complex, multi-step "removal procedure" that left users vulnerable,
You may be right about one thing, "seems to be laughing at" may have been a poor choice of words
The fact that they haven't says they approve of everthing that has been done. There is simply no other way to read the fact the he is still employed by SONY. SONY and Hesse seem to be laughing at everone whose computer was infected.
There's a long period around the reversal when the earth's magnetic field is dowm. No protection from cosmic rays & other miscellaneous high energy particals. Hundreds of years. One resource on the Brunhes-Matuyama reversal about 780K years ago is: here. Here's another more general one on reversals from NASA.
Florida panther? Google "Florida Panther" then click Images. I got 244,000 hits on the text and 2800 on the images. If so you saw a very rare beast. I've lived here about 15 years, spent a lot of time "in the woods" & never seen one.
I worked on one field project in the northeast about 17 years ago that had us diginng holes in a pipeline right-of-way. There was a fibre-optic cable in that right-of-way. According to the fibre-optic guy, it carried all the data between NYC and Philadelphia. Down time: $1 million per minute, and it could be cut with a shovel-much less a backhoe.
After reading your comment, the replies and your replies to them, I am struck by the defeatist attitude on the part of your critics, and indeed, the critics of all proposed ant-spam (etc.) remedies. They are defeated already because they have given up--the "form critique" I keep seeing on this forum is evidence of that. Right now I get little spam, some is flagged by my ISP, and most of the rest is caught by SpamAssasssin or Bogofilter, depending on what client I am using. We are not defeated until we give up. Thanks for the food for thought.
In addition to pjrc's notes, there's another reason the RIAA wouldn't sue 3M: it can & would defend itself heavily. If your scam is suing the defenceless to extort money from them, you don't sue an organization that can defend itself. See, for example, SCO vs. IBM. It would be amusing if the RIAA sued Microsoft for removing SONY's rootkit: "Godzilla versus Megalon, Redux." or would it be "Spy vs. Spy" In any case, it should keep both sides occupied 10-20 years.
Your comment reminded me of Will Rogers(?) saying: "We have the best Congress money can buy." and Mark Twain's "There is no native criminal class--except Congress."
Furthermore, if no one can trust us because all we care about is money and not a product that meets the needs of our customers
I also have thousands invested in the stock market (in fields other than my own). But not a penny in the stock of companies that I find morally depraved. And yes, I have made money in the market, even during the dot.bomb/tech crash.
For the liscense fees.
If "piracy" should be a criminal offence, then infecting hundreds of thousands of computers with rootkits/trojans should be worth a death sentence. SONY/BMG and 1st 4Internet CEOs report to the nearest wall & bring your own blindfold. Virus writers, ditto. How about life sentences for spammers and those who contract for their services? Too expensive, send them to the wall, too. Corporate assholes are quick to demand their customers be jailed, but how they lie and whine when they get caught.
It's the statutory penalty for the violations: $100K per infraction. The Texas AG was just on TV (CNBC) and suggested that the fines came out to hundreds of millions of dollars.
That seems to be how companies like Sony view them. Any rights customers may have are seen by SONY and their ilk (a cast too numerous to catalog) as detracting from their own. The only way SONY et al. can maximize rights (and, they hope, profit) is to minimize everyone else's, ultimately including the rights of other companies. Under that notion their rights are maximized when everyone else's rights = 0. That is a reasonable explanation of why they chose to crap on the rights of their paying customers. It's the same logic tyrannies have always used. Sic semper tyrannis
The the success of the GNU and other OSS liscence models suggest that SONY and their brothers in greed are wrong. Just my 2 cents.
Win-don'ts... Doze? ... I give up.
Maggot Defender.
As someone "working in IP and media law" pehaps GP-poster is unaware that the Nuremberg defence was decisively rejected--at Nuremberg. The total lack of any moral awareness implicit in the Nuremberg defence is disgusting, which is about what's to be expected of anyone practicing IP-law, one supposes.
That according to F-secure installing the Sony program on a machine running Windows Vista -- the beta version of Windows' next iteration -- "breaks the operating system spectacularly."
... etc.
Woo-hoo, I can just see it now:
Ballmer: Sony's crap does WHAT!!!!!!?
[Picks up his desk and thows it across the room and through the wall.]
Ballmer: I'm gonna fucking kill SONY, those wimps! I've done it before and
IBM has subpoened KPMG, SCO's accounting firm, story at Groklaw. KPMG was SCO's accounting firm till recently and had "difficulty" signing off on some of SCO's stuff. This should be rich.
You are correct. It makes far more sense to outlaw the use of digital devices by Hollywood et al. than to turn millions of law-abiding people everywhere into criminals to satisfy the whims of the MPAA & RIAA set.
They will threaten to stop producing anything? Promises , promises...