Well, Apple doesn't HAVE to release anything to the KHTML team. They should consider themselves lucky they get a patch from Apple at all. Apple could force them to buy a copy of OSX and pay for the media to hand over this source code.
I think it would be good for the community to understand the level of Apple's support, but this slashdot attention does a good job of that. Apple isn't being evil here, tho. They're in full compliance with the license.
We should be greatful Apple hasn't run some sort of smear campaign against the software or community like Sun and Microsoft have.
Most corps used to ignore FOSS. Then they laughed at it. Now (if they haven't jumped on the FOSS bandwagon) they fight it, with the law and propoganda. Who knows if we'll win.
Does it really matter? Yes, IMO, because by the time we do win it will be made illegal by our competitors, at this rate anyhow. Then the long bloody revolution will ensue and we'll have to put down these keyboards and learn how to use a gun or a knife or a sharp pointy device of some sort as we've seen if Doom, to kill all those who oppose us.
Personally I'd like the revolution. Teh graphics are so realistik.
This is embarrassing for the Free Software community. You guys should be more professional. If someone doesn't want to hand over code in nice neat bite-sized packages with comments and documentation and a thank-you note, then shrug it off.
It doesn't matter what they give back as long as they don't break the license. We may have to buy their product or know someone who did, but at least we have the right to get access to their source code. But whining that they aren't doing your job for you is stupid. We're better than this.
khtml developers are lazy. Wheres the fun in that?
First I would like to say _Thank You_ to all the KDE developers working on KHTML and Konqueror. Without you, well, we'd be stuck with Nautilus and Firefox.:P
And being lazy is part of the fun. Writing code is fun. I love to do it while I'm stoned. I smoke a phat bowl and get to hacking on my objects and get this wonderful sense of accomplishment when I fix annoying bugs or add new features. I suck at writing C/C++, but Perl is so much fun for me. If I knew how to manage datastructures in C/C++ like I do with Perl I'd have just as much fun with it.
NO STRESS!!! And deoxy.org/endwork.htm. Just relax and hang out with friends and play games and write up some colorful fun entertaining and encouraging documentation/tutorials/propoganda when you get code burn-out. Or take a break and come back with a new clear and focused perspective on getting standards compliance into KHTML or whatever your goals. There's no rush. We'll love you all the same. Just have fun.
I care because I've been working with proprietary software for 10 years and know it very well.
I was so thrilled about Windows 95 when it first came out. I knew all about DOS and Windows 3.x. And when I first moved to the bay area I got a job supporting a DSVD gaming modem on Windows and Mac. I learned all about modems and Windows internals, such as how it detected hardware, while I was going to school learning NT, Novell and UNIX.
UNIX was a much better design. Modular and efficient all the way. But try telling that to an MSCE or Novell admin.
Then I spent the next few years contracting as a UNIX sys admin at Sun, SGI, AOL, and many other corporations. While contracting I got to know these OSs very intimately. I worked with NT, Solaris, AIX, HPUX, IRIX, OSF/Tru64, Linux and BSD. All these OSs had bugs as did their hardware.
But the problems I saw were not the bugs, but the way these corporations would try to hide critical bugs and security vulnerabilities. In 2000 we knew Outlook and IE would have many security problems. We knew it because we understood how this software was designed for features and ease-of-use instead of security. Every new OS Microsoft released didn't fix these gaping holes. We watched as the IT industry got compromised again and again, years after we warned them.
Our warnings fell on deaf ears. Even now XP is still vulnerable upon install. But we knew NT 4.0 was insecure back in 2000, and Win2k didn't address those problems. Why didn't they listen to us and move on to something that would protect their data and networks?
I wanted, more than anything, to build a solid and stable network that would page me before any critical problems caused service interruption. But these corporations I worked for didn't care. They replaced that network again and again, running into the same problems again and again, asking me to run around removing worms from Windows systems when my job title was Sr. UNIX Admin.
I moved over to being a UNIX only admin because of the problems I encountered on Windows. And when Linux became the perfect replacement for many systems and services they still would rather spend money to upgrade to the latest commercial OS instead of bringing their core business in-house. With FOSS we could have fixed all the problems that plagued them for years. Even now they're looking at expensive outsourced solutions, like IDS and IPS systems to protect them.
All the while I've been getting free bug fixes, new features and enhancements for my Linux desktop. Its faster, more stable and more secure and it would have cost us $0 and saved me much frustration. And BSD or Linux would have been a much more stable server platform, when built with redundancy and fault-tolerance in mind. Cheaper hardware than Sun means more redunancy for the same cost. And all hardware has bugs, even now. 99.99999% uptime, I learned, is a very real possibility. This combination of this FOSS technology could have saved millions, and that is no exaggeration.
I watched hundreds of people lose their job because management was too stubborn to take responsibility for their decisions. All they had to do was give up a little control and have their IT engineers engineer them a solid and stable solution. But they wanted to play these games and lay down the law and look where it got us. Compromized.
What I care about, what I've always cared about, is the technology. And what I love about FOSS is its all about the technology, not the money. What does it take to convince people that FOSS is the right way to do it?
Do I hate business? When it costs all my coworkers their jobs, yes I do. I hate hurting people to make a profit. Business should be ethical. Without ethics we'll lose our humanity and buy widgets made by enslaved children without even realizing it. Are people just another widget to you? Or do you really care about your community? That is what this is all about. People before profits.
From the driver development POV its irrelevant since any changes to the driver API will be patched into all drivers it affects by the developer who changes the API. If they break the API I won't have to go and fix my driver, because all that would have been part of the API checkin. Any new drivers will have to conform to this new API, but if you're a developer you're going to be in the loop and know what you're doing.
The only problems you get are from a user POV. If you try to use an old driver with a new kernel it won't work. This makes people frustrated because they're ignorant about the kernel. But any distro will use new drivers that come with the new kernel, so it won't be a problem if you upgrade through recommended channels by your distro.
Wonder when RedHat or Stallman will send me a C&D letter for posting pre-released CVS code from GCC and glibc. Or the new features going into GNOME or KDE.
How unfortunately we are with all these ignorant masses supporting bad business practices for reasons like ease-of-use, eye candy, laziness, apathy, and spite.
It amazes me how many people hate Stallman. As much as I hate Microsoft for their practices, I still think Bill and Steve are good people. They just don't give as much. Sure they give money to some charities, but how many people have used GCC and how much would those people have had to pay for a C compiler without it? I bet that amounts to as much as Bill Gates has given away. And its still out there for anyone, me, you, your children, to use. And it will always be.
How can anyone hate that? And how can anyone love the opposition so much? I'd love to know their reasoning.
Apple is the dumbest company ever. They have these excellent products and a community that would follow them into the sea. But instead of playing the good guy they became litigious bastards.
You want to know why we're disappointed the rumors aren't true? Or why we even heard these rumors to begin with? Start looking at the bloggers you sued. I heard about the law suit, not the rumor. And yes, I would expect a company like Apple to be ahead of the curve, so a dual-core announcement is expected.
Although, I know Apple can't and won't deliver, because their sales are based on hype and marketting. They would rather trick me into paying twice the value of their hardware so I have the privelege of running their OS. Yes, OSX is nice. But it doesn't justify Apple's behavior.
Before they know it Linux will be just as nice on my cheap X86. Then the only thing they'll have left is their good word. If only they were the FOSS advocate they could have been.
Also, I hate all forms of DRM and any company that uses it.
Win2k eh? Of course it has a stable API. That's like saying RedHat 9 has a stable API. It hasn't changed since I first used it. Sure its still running the 2.4 kernel. But that's okay, because you want stability, right?
Even Microsoft says anything before WinXP SP2 wasn't a "modern OS". So if you suddenly upgrade to WinXP SP2 will your Win2k drivers work? Or will you have to get new XP drivers? If you have to get XP drivers for any of your hardware you're arguement is toast!
Yeah, and I heard Clinton deserves some blame for this, too.
Clinton was the most horrible President this country ever had. Thank God we have Bush to clean up his mess. At least we'll finally get our rights and freedom back, plus interest. In fact we have so much freedom we can spread it around the world. I didn't know US bombed carried freedom, but Bush has proved us liberals wrong once again. Maybe he'll even balance the budget, too. Just gotta have faith.
Tell me, do you think God would vote for Bush? I do.
The value of money is just a figment of your imagination. Its all based on dynamic economic models, like supply/demand. These are changing all the time. Don't you think the hurricanes in Florida or the War on Terrorism or Global Warming are going to affect your worth? What happens when these businesses can buy your type of labor for less than $1 an hour. What are you going to do when you can't find a job?
Sometimes Free == Tyranny and sometimes Money == Tyranny. But we agree to act tyrannical for this money. Its a contract. Like.. I choose to join the military and kill innocent people because they pay me to do it. If that happens to be tyranny who's fault is it?
Money is a social contract we've all decided to participate in. It grants those people with all the money the power to use the rest of us how they see fit. If their actions are corrupt, then so are those of the people who work for them. It doesn't take a country full of psychos to build a Nazi Germany. What's so surprising about Germany is that most people where normal average folks who just watched too much TV and got carried away on the party line.
If we're so easy to manipulate with money, then maybe we should seek alternatives that might help us maintain our sanity a little. Just look at advertising and how it has affected our culture here in the US. It isn't pretty.
Its because we're all certifiably insane. Just watch CNN or Fox news if you don't believe me. We're a bunch of loonies who get scared of our own shadow and try to kill it with our shotgun. The sad thing is sometimes we actually believe we're winning this fight for our sanity against those evil forces of darkness.
Have you considering using optical media or flash? A DVD, or example, could store the OS, apps and data for a limited set of tasks and be rewritable.
Personally I would have something like a solid state or optical disk filesystem shared over wireless. A bunch of RAM in those laptops, 1+GB, to run the OS out of a ramdisk and use DVDRW media to store the OS and local data. Maybe flash cards or something for portable media.
But I wouldn't know what might work well in space.
Are you going to tell the millions of Christians thier belief system is bubkis?
Yes, God, Jesus and Heaven are myths. And The Holy Bible is fiction, not meant to be interpreted literally. What more do you want?:)
Its so simple for me to see the truth. Why is it so hard for these ignorant christians? Science proved christianity wrong. Let's see, the church believed the world was flat, wrong. The church believed God created man, wrong. Is it too much to ask that they read a book, other than the only one they believe in?
Why must christians insist their beliefs are truthful and moral?
I know their belief system is bubkis. No need to tell them this, its a fact. I don't care what they believe, but they best keep it out of my government.
If it allowed him to work efficently (and it did) for quite some time
But if it costs you time to switch to another solution, it depends on how much time it cost you to retool vs. how much time you saved before you know if it was a "great descision".
If the net effect is lost time then RMS was right, from a purely financial perspective. But if you're like me and want to avoid the stress of retooling, then RMS is always right.;)
Slashdot Mirror
Perhaps when they said crash they were talking about the software instead of the car.
That would be ironic.
the latter has the policy of choosing sensational headlines without having editors to check them.
What happened? Did CmdrTaco or CowboyNeal replace them with a very small shell script?
That's an excellent idea, hope someone at AMD reads this.
Well, Apple doesn't HAVE to release anything to the KHTML team. They should consider themselves lucky they get a patch from Apple at all. Apple could force them to buy a copy of OSX and pay for the media to hand over this source code.
I think it would be good for the community to understand the level of Apple's support, but this slashdot attention does a good job of that. Apple isn't being evil here, tho. They're in full compliance with the license.
We should be greatful Apple hasn't run some sort of smear campaign against the software or community like Sun and Microsoft have.
Most corps used to ignore FOSS.
Then they laughed at it.
Now (if they haven't jumped on the FOSS bandwagon) they fight it, with the law and propoganda.
Who knows if we'll win.
Does it really matter? Yes, IMO, because by the time we do win it will be made illegal by our competitors, at this rate anyhow. Then the long bloody revolution will ensue and we'll have to put down these keyboards and learn how to use a gun or a knife or a sharp pointy device of some sort as we've seen if Doom, to kill all those who oppose us.
Personally I'd like the revolution. Teh graphics are so realistik.
Actually, you might be on to something there. ;)
This is embarrassing for the Free Software community. You guys should be more professional. If someone doesn't want to hand over code in nice neat bite-sized packages with comments and documentation and a thank-you note, then shrug it off.
:P
It doesn't matter what they give back as long as they don't break the license. We may have to buy their product or know someone who did, but at least we have the right to get access to their source code. But whining that they aren't doing your job for you is stupid. We're better than this.
khtml developers are lazy. Wheres the fun in that?
First I would like to say _Thank You_ to all the KDE developers working on KHTML and Konqueror. Without you, well, we'd be stuck with Nautilus and Firefox.
And being lazy is part of the fun. Writing code is fun. I love to do it while I'm stoned. I smoke a phat bowl and get to hacking on my objects and get this wonderful sense of accomplishment when I fix annoying bugs or add new features. I suck at writing C/C++, but Perl is so much fun for me. If I knew how to manage datastructures in C/C++ like I do with Perl I'd have just as much fun with it.
NO STRESS!!! And deoxy.org/endwork.htm. Just relax and hang out with friends and play games and write up some colorful fun entertaining and encouraging documentation/tutorials/propoganda when you get code burn-out. Or take a break and come back with a new clear and focused perspective on getting standards compliance into KHTML or whatever your goals. There's no rush. We'll love you all the same. Just have fun.
maybe p2p terrorists?
I care because I've been working with proprietary software for 10 years and know it very well.
I was so thrilled about Windows 95 when it first came out. I knew all about DOS and Windows 3.x. And when I first moved to the bay area I got a job supporting a DSVD gaming modem on Windows and Mac. I learned all about modems and Windows internals, such as how it detected hardware, while I was going to school learning NT, Novell and UNIX.
UNIX was a much better design. Modular and efficient all the way. But try telling that to an MSCE or Novell admin.
Then I spent the next few years contracting as a UNIX sys admin at Sun, SGI, AOL, and many other corporations. While contracting I got to know these OSs very intimately. I worked with NT, Solaris, AIX, HPUX, IRIX, OSF/Tru64, Linux and BSD. All these OSs had bugs as did their hardware.
But the problems I saw were not the bugs, but the way these corporations would try to hide critical bugs and security vulnerabilities. In 2000 we knew Outlook and IE would have many security problems. We knew it because we understood how this software was designed for features and ease-of-use instead of security. Every new OS Microsoft released didn't fix these gaping holes. We watched as the IT industry got compromised again and again, years after we warned them.
Our warnings fell on deaf ears. Even now XP is still vulnerable upon install. But we knew NT 4.0 was insecure back in 2000, and Win2k didn't address those problems. Why didn't they listen to us and move on to something that would protect their data and networks?
I wanted, more than anything, to build a solid and stable network that would page me before any critical problems caused service interruption. But these corporations I worked for didn't care. They replaced that network again and again, running into the same problems again and again, asking me to run around removing worms from Windows systems when my job title was Sr. UNIX Admin.
I moved over to being a UNIX only admin because of the problems I encountered on Windows. And when Linux became the perfect replacement for many systems and services they still would rather spend money to upgrade to the latest commercial OS instead of bringing their core business in-house. With FOSS we could have fixed all the problems that plagued them for years. Even now they're looking at expensive outsourced solutions, like IDS and IPS systems to protect them.
All the while I've been getting free bug fixes, new features and enhancements for my Linux desktop. Its faster, more stable and more secure and it would have cost us $0 and saved me much frustration. And BSD or Linux would have been a much more stable server platform, when built with redundancy and fault-tolerance in mind. Cheaper hardware than Sun means more redunancy for the same cost. And all hardware has bugs, even now. 99.99999% uptime, I learned, is a very real possibility. This combination of this FOSS technology could have saved millions, and that is no exaggeration.
I watched hundreds of people lose their job because management was too stubborn to take responsibility for their decisions. All they had to do was give up a little control and have their IT engineers engineer them a solid and stable solution. But they wanted to play these games and lay down the law and look where it got us. Compromized.
What I care about, what I've always cared about, is the technology. And what I love about FOSS is its all about the technology, not the money. What does it take to convince people that FOSS is the right way to do it?
Do I hate business? When it costs all my coworkers their jobs, yes I do. I hate hurting people to make a profit. Business should be ethical. Without ethics we'll lose our humanity and buy widgets made by enslaved children without even realizing it. Are people just another widget to you? Or do you really care about your community? That is what this is all about. People before profits.
When we have the
Oh, okay, well I misspelled you're anyway.
From the driver development POV its irrelevant since any changes to the driver API will be patched into all drivers it affects by the developer who changes the API. If they break the API I won't have to go and fix my driver, because all that would have been part of the API checkin. Any new drivers will have to conform to this new API, but if you're a developer you're going to be in the loop and know what you're doing.
The only problems you get are from a user POV. If you try to use an old driver with a new kernel it won't work. This makes people frustrated because they're ignorant about the kernel. But any distro will use new drivers that come with the new kernel, so it won't be a problem if you upgrade through recommended channels by your distro.
Awesome, must have touched a nerve.
Personally, I never mod people, I comment. IMO only a coward would mod a sincere post down without so much as a reply.
Wonder when RedHat or Stallman will send me a C&D letter for posting pre-released CVS code from GCC and glibc. Or the new features going into GNOME or KDE.
How unfortunately we are with all these ignorant masses supporting bad business practices for reasons like ease-of-use, eye candy, laziness, apathy, and spite.
It amazes me how many people hate Stallman. As much as I hate Microsoft for their practices, I still think Bill and Steve are good people. They just don't give as much. Sure they give money to some charities, but how many people have used GCC and how much would those people have had to pay for a C compiler without it? I bet that amounts to as much as Bill Gates has given away. And its still out there for anyone, me, you, your children, to use. And it will always be.
How can anyone hate that? And how can anyone love the opposition so much? I'd love to know their reasoning.
Apple is the dumbest company ever. They have these excellent products and a community that would follow them into the sea. But instead of playing the good guy they became litigious bastards.
You want to know why we're disappointed the rumors aren't true? Or why we even heard these rumors to begin with? Start looking at the bloggers you sued. I heard about the law suit, not the rumor. And yes, I would expect a company like Apple to be ahead of the curve, so a dual-core announcement is expected.
Although, I know Apple can't and won't deliver, because their sales are based on hype and marketting. They would rather trick me into paying twice the value of their hardware so I have the privelege of running their OS. Yes, OSX is nice. But it doesn't justify Apple's behavior.
Before they know it Linux will be just as nice on my cheap X86. Then the only thing they'll have left is their good word. If only they were the FOSS advocate they could have been.
Also, I hate all forms of DRM and any company that uses it.
Let's see:
1. litigious bastards
2. Overpriced hardware
3. DRM
3 strikes you're out.
Win2k eh? Of course it has a stable API. That's like saying RedHat 9 has a stable API. It hasn't changed since I first used it. Sure its still running the 2.4 kernel. But that's okay, because you want stability, right?
Even Microsoft says anything before WinXP SP2 wasn't a "modern OS". So if you suddenly upgrade to WinXP SP2 will your Win2k drivers work? Or will you have to get new XP drivers? If you have to get XP drivers for any of your hardware you're arguement is toast!
There's no need to get all racist about it. So what if he's white. He's just an idiot.
Scarey, isn't it? I was joking, btw. :)
I would have blocked AOL just on principal. I mean, who actually uses AOL?
Yeah, and I heard Clinton deserves some blame for this, too.
Clinton was the most horrible President this country ever had. Thank God we have Bush to clean up his mess. At least we'll finally get our rights and freedom back, plus interest. In fact we have so much freedom we can spread it around the world. I didn't know US bombed carried freedom, but Bush has proved us liberals wrong once again. Maybe he'll even balance the budget, too. Just gotta have faith.
Tell me, do you think God would vote for Bush? I do.
What are you worth?
Prove to me that you're worth $1 an hour.
The value of money is just a figment of your imagination. Its all based on dynamic economic models, like supply/demand. These are changing all the time. Don't you think the hurricanes in Florida or the War on Terrorism or Global Warming are going to affect your worth? What happens when these businesses can buy your type of labor for less than $1 an hour. What are you going to do when you can't find a job?
Sometimes Free == Tyranny and sometimes Money == Tyranny. But we agree to act tyrannical for this money. Its a contract. Like.. I choose to join the military and kill innocent people because they pay me to do it. If that happens to be tyranny who's fault is it?
Money is a social contract we've all decided to participate in. It grants those people with all the money the power to use the rest of us how they see fit. If their actions are corrupt, then so are those of the people who work for them. It doesn't take a country full of psychos to build a Nazi Germany. What's so surprising about Germany is that most people where normal average folks who just watched too much TV and got carried away on the party line.
If we're so easy to manipulate with money, then maybe we should seek alternatives that might help us maintain our sanity a little. Just look at advertising and how it has affected our culture here in the US. It isn't pretty.
Its because we're all certifiably insane. Just watch CNN or Fox news if you don't believe me. We're a bunch of loonies who get scared of our own shadow and try to kill it with our shotgun. The sad thing is sometimes we actually believe we're winning this fight for our sanity against those evil forces of darkness.
Have you considering using optical media or flash? A DVD, or example, could store the OS, apps and data for a limited set of tasks and be rewritable.
Personally I would have something like a solid state or optical disk filesystem shared over wireless. A bunch of RAM in those laptops, 1+GB, to run the OS out of a ramdisk and use DVDRW media to store the OS and local data. Maybe flash cards or something for portable media.
But I wouldn't know what might work well in space.
Okay, so which GPL database passes this LSD test?
And what's the I stand for?
Are you going to tell the millions of Christians thier belief system is bubkis?
:)
Yes, God, Jesus and Heaven are myths. And The Holy Bible is fiction, not meant to be interpreted literally. What more do you want?
Its so simple for me to see the truth. Why is it so hard for these ignorant christians? Science proved christianity wrong. Let's see, the church believed the world was flat, wrong. The church believed God created man, wrong. Is it too much to ask that they read a book, other than the only one they believe in?
Why must christians insist their beliefs are truthful and moral?
I know their belief system is bubkis. No need to tell them this, its a fact. I don't care what they believe, but they best keep it out of my government.
If it allowed him to work efficently (and it did) for quite some time
;)
But if it costs you time to switch to another solution, it depends on how much time it cost you to retool vs. how much time you saved before you know if it was a "great descision".
If the net effect is lost time then RMS was right, from a purely financial perspective. But if you're like me and want to avoid the stress of retooling, then RMS is always right.
Yeah, but at this current rate of progress we'll patch as security holes and known bugs by sometime around 2370.
4644132000670039